"None of it means a damn thing" by Fireflew

Important people don't do field work.

To get back to the thread, here's my humble thoughts. I know everyone has a theory (and its not bunnies) about what these things meant. And, that's beauty of how ambiguous they were. Was Mal talking about Inara, or life in general? Does Simon really dislike his sister as much as he comes off? What is book's problem? Why does River seem to be repulsed by Zoe and Wash's lovemaking?

I think the answer may be a little simpler than taking these things at face value. Which, obviously they're not meant to be. But, I think the question that's not being asked is: What do these things mean to River, herself? Of course everything the crew says is open to broad interpretation. Yes, they may the thought they are hiding, but what does it mean to River. And, why dos Kaylee not get to weigh in. I completely support the theory that Kaylee doen't have much in the way of hidden thoughts. I think that's why Jayne's was so simple and obvious. Yes, what he does bothers him, but its right on the surface. Almost everyone else's hidden thought that's revealed in this scene is something torturous that may be eating at them all the time. Some may apply to River (Simon's). Some may not (Book's, Mal's and Inara's). I think the complete scene, especially when Zoe and Wash are added in, was meant to convey how uncomfortable River is with this particular power. Remember that while she can "read" thoughts and emotions, due to the tinkering that was done to her brain, she may not know how to react to it. She feels it at one hundred percent. The crew may not be, but River has to. So, while she may be getting at the thoughts that are at the back of their brains, their thoughts fill hers. And, that, more than anything else, I think is what has been driving her insane.

Sorry for the length, but no one really worries about the girth.

Bye bye

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

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Saturday, June 5, 2004 12:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fireflew:
Mal saying, "None of it means a damn thing" - what exactly does this mean?

But yes, does anyone else have any theories regarding this line?

Accepting the idea that this is a forward quote, my take is that Mal's quote is from the very end of the series. That is when Mal is in the terminal stages of opium addiction, commenting on the role of the crew of Serenity in the removal of the threat to the future of the Alliance by enabling Book and Inara to return River safely to Sinon to testify against Blue Sun.

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Saturday, June 5, 2004 1:23 PM

CALHOUN

Quote:
manwithpez wrote:
Saturday, June 05, 2004 12:15 Sorry for the length, but no one really worries about the girth.

Length or Girth are not the issue.

SIZE matters! You cant make butter with a toothpick.

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Saturday, June 5, 2004 1:25 PM

Important people don't do field work.

You can with a really, really small churn.

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

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Saturday, June 5, 2004 2:10 PM

IAMJACKSUSERNAME

Well, I'm all right. - Mal

You can use Google to search FFF, just add "site:fireflyfans.net " (without the quotes) to your query. Some of the threads have too many posts for dial-uppers tho, so a new thread with a link to older discussions might be better.
--
I am Jack's username
FTL in Firefly? < http://jack.p5.org.uk/ftl-firefly.en.html>
Support our shiny bunnies.

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Saturday, June 5, 2004 3:28 PM

DESANGRO

Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Quote:
Originally posted by Fireflew:
Mal saying, "None of it means a damn thing" - what exactly does this mean?

But yes, does anyone else have any theories regarding this line?

Accepting the idea that this is a forward quote, my take is that Mal's quote is from the very end of the series. That is when Mal is in the terminal stages of opium addiction, commenting on the role of the crew of Serenity in the removal of the threat to the future of the Alliance by enabling Book and Inara to return River safely to Sinon to testify against Blue Sun.

Whoah, opium addiction! Interesting thought. So, in your opinion, Mal will end his days a burned-out and hollow individual, permanently? Dark.. but interesting. Any more thoughts, please?

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Saturday, June 5, 2004 4:51 PM

LORA

Quote:
Originally posted by Calhoun:
You cant make butter with a toothpick.

"When you need sexual help, they send you to a small Jewish lady you know doesn't even eat pork..." I do love Robin Williams. 'Live at the Met' -- what? 1985 or somesuch?

(Hey, what is the topic of this thread, anyway? Oh, yeah, River's reading of the crew at the beginning of OIS...)

River understands, she doesn't comprehend. She knows the surface meaning of the words and images she finds in the minds of her shipmates but she can't put them in context or grasp their significance...kinda like a 'normal' 6-year-old watching an NC-17 movie...it's overwhelming and confusing and fascinating and yet nauseating in some way. Same problem we are meant to have with that scene. We know what the words mean when Mal says, "None of it means a damn thing," but we have no way to determine the significance of that thought, or even if there is any.

"Is there any way I'm gonna get out of this with honor and dignity?"

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Saturday, June 5, 2004 10:18 PM

FIREFLEW

Quote:
Originally posted by Lora:

River understands, she doesn't comprehend. She knows the surface meaning of the words and images she finds in the minds of her shipmates but she can't put them in context or grasp their significance...kinda like a 'normal' 6-year-old watching an NC-17 movie...it's overwhelming and confusing and fascinating and yet nauseating in some way. Same problem we are meant to have with that scene. We know what the words mean when Mal says, "None of it means a damn thing," but we have no way to determine the significance of that thought, or even if there is any.

"Is there any way I'm gonna get out of this with honor and dignity?"

Yes, this lack of comprehension cruelly (

Joss Whedon....

) forced on us fans who would like to know the significance of the words

.

Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Saturday, June 5, 2004 10:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DeSangro:

Whoah, opium addiction! Interesting thought. So, in your opinion, Mal will end his days a burned-out and hollow individual, permanently? Dark.. but interesting. Any more thoughts, please?

FWIW Purplebelly's denouement:

Mal: opium addiction as a result of being unable to reconcile himself to Zoe's death; emaciation means his pants are no longer tight

Zoe: dead in a rearguard action with the Reavers

Wash: alcohol abuser, too fat to fit into flight seat

Serenity: sitting in a scrap lot on Osiris, home to Mal, Wash and Kaylee but unable to fly because of lack of maintenance

Kaylee: caring for Mal, Wash and Serenity by working for the scrap merchant and turning the odd trick for clients with boils and the like; she is not cheerful

River: on a witness protection programme after her testimony against Blue Sun. This is a euphemism for the draconian reprogramming that has destroyed any individuality along with the Blue Sun enhancements

Simon: returned to his career on Osiris. Has a large enough stack of money to live in a loft apartment, which has the now fashionable Firefly interior design. He doesn't know about the plight of Kaylee, Mal and Wash

Jayne: is Simon's personal trainer and majordomo of their apartment. He knows about the plight of his former crewmates, but has warned Kaylee that he will kill Mal if she contacts Simon for help.

Inara: after the demise of Blue Sun and the triumph of the True Alliance she has resumed her career on Sinon as House Priestess

Book: has fulfilled his task of getting River to Sinon to testify against Blue Sun, and is in Retreat at the Abbey

Niska: has commisioned a video documentary on the story of Serenity, the shooting of which gives the structure for the final episode of the show

Sorry this is so long, and such nonsense, but you did ask

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Sunday, June 6, 2004 12:59 AM

CALHOUN

Quote:
Lora wrote:
Saturday, June 05, 2004 16:51
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Calhoun:
You cant make butter with a toothpick.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"When you need sexual help, they send you to a small Jewish lady you know doesn't even eat pork..." I do love Robin Williams. 'Live at the Met' -- what? 1985 or somesuch?

Heya Lora, Didnt think anyone would know where I got that little line from. Well done.

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Sunday, June 6, 2004 11:03 AM

ANKHAGOGO

Quote:
Originally posted by manwithpez:
To get back to the thread, here's my humble thoughts.....Why does River seem to be repulsed by Zoe and Wash's lovemaking?

I'm curious as to why you think River's repulsed. I perceived River's reaction as being overwhelmed by their emotions/thoughts, as well as possibly a little frightened by the intensity of them. I think it's unlikely that River herself has experienced those emotions/thoughts/tactile sensations, so it wouldn't be surprising if she were a little freaked out by it.

"Well personally, I kinda want to slay the dragon."

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Sunday, June 6, 2004 11:34 AM

Important people don't do field work.

Quote:
"When you need sexual help, they send you to a small Jewish lady you know doesn't even eat pork..." I do love Robin Williams. 'Live at the Met' -- what? 1985 or somesuch?

"You don't go to Dr. Ruth...You go to Docta ROOF! Cause she'll help your ass! She'll be gorram honest with you. When you say Docta ROOF does it matter that I have a small penis? She'll say Damn straight, baby!"

and, my personal favorite (beside Reagan as puppet, but that would be in bad taste right now, huh?)

"Its the time of year when your cat looks at you like" turns and walks backwards "Ever seen THIS before?"

Good stuff...

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

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Monday, June 7, 2004 6:24 AM

LORA

I think we may be dating ourselves, you know, like with carbon-13...

"Is there any way I'm gonna get out of this with honor and dignity?"

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 1:21 AM

MANTICHORUS

Quote:
Originally posted by Ankhagogo:
Quote:
Originally posted by manwithpez:
To get back to the thread, here's my humble thoughts.....Why does River seem to be repulsed by Zoe and Wash's lovemaking?

I'm curious as to why you think River's repulsed. I perceived River's reaction as being overwhelmed by their emotions/thoughts, as well as possibly a little frightened by the intensity of them. I think it's unlikely that River herself has experienced those emotions/thoughts/tactile sensations, so it wouldn't be surprising if she were a little freaked out by it.

"Well personally, I kinda want to slay the dragon."

Personally, I thought that the sensations were making her feel slightly high...

-------------------------------------------
"BADGER: You think you're better than other people.
MAL: Just the ones I'm better than."
-------------------------------------
"MAL: Gotta say, doctor, your talent for alienatin' folk is near miraculous.
SIMON: Yes, I'm very proud."

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 1:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mantichorus:
Personally, I thought that the sensations were making her feel slightly high...

Here's me thinking Joss just wanted to linger on Summer's torso

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 2:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fireflew:
Hey everyone. I was (still am - Objects In Space) and Objects in Space was the episode. I watched Objects In Space and got to the part where River "sees" Mal saying, "None of it means a damn thing" - what exactly does this mean?
SNIP!

Sorry to just interject, I haven't read this thread... but I wanted to offer this:

Mal has a deep emptiness. When River saw/heard Mal saying "None of it means a damn thing" it's the same thing Niska saw when Mal said "Do you wanna see the REAL ME!?!".

... think about it, sorry I've little time to elaborate. Cheers!

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 3:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
"None of it means a damn thing" it's the same thing Niska saw when Mal said "Do you wanna see the REAL ME!?!".

... think about it, sorry I've little time to elaborate. Cheers!

From the script:
MAL
(low, burning rage)
Looks like business ain't running so
much as crawling away...
(deadly)
You wanna meet the "real me" now...?

the verb is important, think about it

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 10:14 AM

Hmm. No, I don't see where you're going here PURPLEBELLY.

Myself I'm forwarding the idea that Mal is a broken man. After the war he lost his very soul along with everything else. He is trying to make a new 'world' in Serenity but deep down he fears it's all for nothing. And without it, Mal is nothing. The REAL Mal has nothing to loose. Not even his soul.

... so don't piss him off!

Hmmmmmmm, come to think of it: isn't Mal usually more violent when away from Serenity? Isn't he happier when on Serenity? Hmmmmm.

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 11:14 AM

Important people don't do field work.

It appears to me that every little thought that River catches could mean more than one thing: Book is who I'm really looking at here. Book is one of the crew that River has sorta bonded with. Of course there's Kaylee and Inara. I think, the more River's gift was revealed, the less Inara would have been hanging around her. Back to Book. "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not." Could be that's the total truth. Book may not give half a hump. But, the way River interprets it is completely negative. As she does with the rest of the crew. It only occurs to me that Book's may the one that can be taken positively.

Hell, I don't know. Beats me. I've been too bust lately over at x-entertainment.com , looking at reviews of the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parades years 1984-1986. Funny stuff.

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 11:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Hmm. No, I don't see where you're going here PURPLEBELLY.

I've probably read too much Terry Pratchett

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 1:07 PM

PEDME84

i always thought that that line meant that any connection mal and inara might have had is all for nothing. she's just gonna leave.

so what did it all mean? not a damn thing.

- emily

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 2:09 AM

CARDIE

Given that OIS is about looking at life from an existentialist perspective, "none of it means a damn thing" is a central tenet of that philosophy.

Cardie

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 3:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cardie:
Given that OIS is about looking at life from an existentialist perspective

'I was fine when existence had no meaning. Meaninglessness in a universe that has no meaning -- that I get. But meaninglessness in a universe with meaning? What does that mean?' :Aaron Tyler[Wonderfalls-Muffin Buffalo]

Wrong show, I know, but Tim Minear was an exec on that one too.

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 6:02 AM

Ah. I think I should read some Terry Pratchett Purplebelly.

And yea, existentialism is indeed Mals' current philosophy of choice (surely Mal has no idea what existentialism is) and Serenity is his 'cure' for the emptiness.

Remember, existentialism has it's limits. One cannot live ones life in meaninglessness. You have to have friends. Following strict existentialism (I believe) will only bring you to the conclusion you should kill yourself right now.

So the "meaning" in the universe is friendship. Love. It isn't a rock to hold onto but more of a life-preserver thrown by a friend to you drowning in the sea of existentialist meaninglessness. One gets no where alone.

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 6:14 AM

Thanks for not shouting, Ghoulman. 'Fraid I haven't found my Sybil. Meet the Beast a lot, though - 'specially when reading this board

Sam

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 6:20 AM

^^^
Oh, sorry. my first post there I had just copy and pasted your nick, and was too lazy to type it out.

I was beginning to think proper Netiquette was dead on this BBS. I'm pleased to see it isn't.

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 6:24 AM