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#takeastand
SUSIE is 21. She's a daughter and sister. In five months, she'll be an aunt. She's just finished university exams and heads out to celebrate with friends.

Within the first two hours at the bar, she has been groped twice. The first was explicit, a leering drunk, his breath reeking, grasps her chest. She complains to the security guard and the man is escorted from the premises.

Susie doesn't see the second bloke. She's wending her way through a throng of people, and feels an unwanted touch from behind. She turns, quickly studies the unfamiliar faces, but everyone acts as if nothing has happened. Susie continues to the bar - she's unfortunately familiar with men taking advantage in crowds.

This kind of stuff happens day in, day out. Many women have come to think of it as inevitable.

But what would you have done if a mate did this? Would you have said anything? And if you think it has nothing to do with the guy who gets home and stomps his pregnant partner, or the bloke who breaks his wife's nose with his fist, I've got something to tell you: it's all connected.

The casual groping, the sick sense of entitlement, the disrespect -- all of it slowly erodes our attitudes towards women. Bit by bit our standards are lowered until this kind of behaviour becomes a form of endorsement of violence towards women.

So I have two challenges for you. The first is for all of you: when a woman is jeered, groped, bashed or raped I want you to consider the man who did it, and the culture that encouraged it.

I want you to consider why we so ardently place the emphasis on the woman - why was she there? What was she wearing? - rather than on the man's grubbiness and criminality. This doesn't mean we stop talking about safety. That's common sense. But I'm tired of how we talk about violence against women.

The second challenge is to blokes: I want you to help make indecency against women deeply shameful. I want you to understand that this is not solely a feminist issue.

It's a social issue, a moral issue and a men's issue.

I want you to have hard conversations with your friends, your sons, your teammates, your colleagues. And I'm not just talking about standing up to the men who bash and rape women. I'm also talking about those who slander strangers on the street and the cowards who touch women on crowded trams.

I want parents explaining to their sons that you treat women compassionately and thoughtfully. I want coaches to explain to their players that women are not trophies.

And I want prominent men speaking loudly about this more often.

They're my challenges. Now let me explain to you the urgency.

Violence against women is rampant. In Victoria, in the year up to March 2013, there were nearly 20,000 recorded offences of family violence. In the previous two financial years, the Women's Domestic Violence Crisis Service received more than 50,000 calls to its crisis hotline in Victoria alone.

And it's an international problem. Just a few weeks ago the World Health Organisation released its findings into violence against women and described it as a "global health problem of epidemic proportions".

Their multiple studies found that one in three women worldwide had been assaulted. Linger on that statistic. It's appalling. Violence against women everywhere is very, very common.

Now consider this: when we focus on the victim, there is an implicit suggestion that male violence is just something we should all put up with - that it's some immovable cloud that hangs over society.

Well, I don't think so.

We're never going to extinguish all violence. We can't create a utopia. And I'm not suggesting that parents don't talk to their children about safety. What I'm saying is that the emphasis on the victim is disproportionate and that's damaging because men aren't having hard conversations with each other.

So, guys: take a stand. Examine your own behaviour and attitudes. Re-calibrate whatever weird sense of manhood might tell you that the casual molestation of women is OK.

This is your issue just as much as anybody else's.

#takeastand

Ken Lay is Victoria Police Chief Commissioner

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Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Just a few days ago, on the game I've been playing for the past few months but I haven't come out as female, a guy on my team who brags about being a hot hot DJ started talking about the awesome T&A of middle school girls.

I ripped him one. F---ing sick.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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Do men talk about this among each other, ever?

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I think I might also have to be the one to bring up male on male violence and provocation as well.

Because men goad each other into certain behaviours, you know, "be a man!" as in "harrass that woman!" Or mocking each other for NOT being men. And the whole thing gets kind of this weird catty predatory homoerotic vibe going on about it.

And I suspect that kinda misandry is connected to male on male rape as much as misogyny is connected to male on female rape. That kinda hate and disrespect is all about the power struggle and dominance play.

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Over the years we have interviewed hundreds of women who have been raped. In cases of date and acquaintance rape we found a surprising fact. In approximately 80% of the events the woman initiated the physical violence!

Specifically as the male was either touching her inappropriately or grabbing him she threw the first punch or slap. Consequentially she was physically overwhelmed by the male.

When we mention this fact many advocates immediately go on the warpath and come up with all kinds of statements about how how we're blaming the victim and how a woman has the right to defend herself or that the violence was actually instigated by the man. The problem is they are so busy trying to blame the male that they miss our point. We don't object to the fact that the woman threw the first strike ...

What we object to is that she didn't break his jaw!

Our attitude isn't just that "No Means No." It means a trip to the hospital if you're too stupid or drunk to know what 'No' means.

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A woman who stays in a situation of domestic violence should take some of the blame

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Some women provoke their partners to behave violently

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Women need to take responsibility for their behaviour in public and for doing things or wearing things that may incite men to rape

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Prostitutes who are raped deserve less sympathy than other women

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Making rape threats online/twitter is one of the down sides to free speech and should be tolerated

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It is okay to use terms like rape/whore/slut online and in gaming situations because that's just how people speak now

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I think that many of you have missed the point of this thread. Most people will agree that using violence in an intimate relationship is wrong - I'm not talking about SM stuff - but violence used to intimidate and control. Most people would say that rape is wrong. These are broad statements that most people can agree upon. But what about these issues:

A woman who stays in a situation of domestic violence should take some of the blame

Some women provoke their partners to behave violently

Women need to take responsibility for their behaviour in public and for doing things or wearing things that may incite men to rape

Prostitutes who are raped deserve less sympathy than other women

Making rape threats online/twitter is one of the down sides to free speech and should be tolerated

It is okay to use terms like rape/whore/slut online and in gaming situations because that's just how people speak now



Discuss....

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Originally posted by Geezer:
Just to crank everyone here up, I'm gonna cross over from another thread and note that in a Libertarian society, based on the principles of individual sovereignty and the Non-Aggression Principle,

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I've actually had pretty good luck with a howl - but then it's less "help me help" which seems to actually egg some of the more sadistic types on and more nonverbal "GONNA MURDER YOU" rage howl.

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Originally posted by Niki2:

And as far as Rap...sigh...Again Rap makes the point that he is completely Muslim-obsessed, and if he has an IQ over 70, is incapable of engaging it in relevant discussion.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Oh no, I get it. Some violence should be discussed and awareness should be brought to the front.

Other violence, simply should be ignored.

Now I understand.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:


We're mostly objecting to, and trying to ignore for your sake, the suggestion you may or may not intentionally be making that violence against women here in the US doesn't deserve attention or discussion because it's worse somewhere else.

It matters everywhere. And sometimes when you focus on only one aspect of it, as in your posts above, you make it look like you don't care about the other aspects and it raises unfortunate implications. It's probably NOT true, and you do care, but unfortunately you are representing yourself poorly.

But if you really want to go there... Circumcision. Also barbaric.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Y'all are right. I was way off topic. Apologies.

Who gives a flying flip about women not in the West, right ?

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Niki will vilify Christianity for the exact same thing for which she gives Islam a complete pass.

Shocker!

( No, not really )

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

Besides, FGM is not an exclusively muslim practice. Jeez.

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Originally posted by Niki2:
.Notice that Rap has effectively ended the discussion that we were in, and threadjacked this into people responding to him behaving like a spoiled child. Is that what you folks really want? THAT'S WHAT HE'S HERE FOR, remember?

This WAS an actual, honest-to-gawd discussion for just a bit there, you wanna keep paying attention to the little brat in the corner throwing a temper tantrum?

Frem made the last non-Rap contribution; perhaps if he felt like positing an answer to my question, or any other intelligent adult would like to, or any other intelligent adult would like to contribute or ask questions of their own, it might become a discussion again. Or not; you can go right on being goaded into making it all about Rap, that's what he wants, after all.

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