Girl involved in car crash staggers to house, gets shot in the face by kpo

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Girl involved in car crash staggers to house, gets shot in the face

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Monday, November 18, 2013 02:58
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VIEWED: 1123
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Wednesday, November 13, 2013 8:17 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24907851

Probably an accident but still, what a world, where this happens...

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Friday, November 15, 2013 8:08 PM

OONJERAH

Detroit man charged in killing of 19-year-old at front door
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4220006-detroit-man-charged-in-killi
ng-of-19-year-old-at-front-door/

"Theodore P. Wafer, 54, faces charges of second-degree murder and
manslaughter in the death of Renisha McBride in Detroit on Nov. 2.

"Police say they believe she was involved in a car accident nearby,
and family members say she likely approached Wafer's home for help."
. . .
"Police found McBride's body on the porch.

"A toxicology report released Thursday showed McBride had alcohol
and marijuana in her system. The report said McBride's blood alcohol
content was about 0.22, more than twice the legal limit for driving.

"A lawyer for Wafer, Cheryl Carpenter, told The Detroit News this
week that she and Wafer 'recognize it's a tragedy and a 19-year-old
woman died.'"

An accident, maybe. Any common sense, gun safety at work there?
Wafer had the door open = he deemed it safe. Someone knocked on
the screen door, so he shot. Fast draw artist?

Puzzling.

======================

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 12:18 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Accident or not (and I doubt it) the guy is responsible for his actions here.
There was no point in this where lethal force was justifiable whatever.

-F

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 12:51 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

If only a good guy with a gun had been there, this wouldn't have happened.

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 4:13 AM

SHINYGOODGUY

Yes, he claims, according toi reports, that the gun went off accidently. Well, that little preliminary statement may have caused his eventual arrest and charges. He cannot claim self defense if the gun went off by accident, according to law officials. If he didn't mean to shoot he wasn't defending himself.

He cannot use the "castle" rule because she was shot on the front porch, not inside the house after forced entry. She was unarmed. The fact that she was drunk, or dwi, follows logic since she did crash her car, but is not relevant to her being shot or does it justify the use of deadly force. This is not a stand your ground case.

I caught some of this while watching MSNBC today. My guess is that more evidence will be revealed during the trial, whenever that is.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Accident or not (and I doubt it) the guy is responsible for his actions here.
There was no point in this where lethal force was justifiable whatever.

-F

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 5:43 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Feh, doesn't matter - most modern weapons in the US have a form of safety device which prevents accidental discharge even from a six story fall, you HAVE to pull the trigger for the weapon to fire, okay ?
And if he pulled it accidently he's STILL on the hook cause you keep your goddamn booger-hook OFF the freakin bangswitch till you ARE meaning to shoot something, for just that reason.
Topping THAT off, you do not, repeat DO NOT, point a firearm directly AT someone you don't plan to shoot with it, EVER.

The only tool you can blame for this one, was the one holding the shotgun.
Of course, there are those who wanna blame weapons as an insidious excuse to enable other abuses, who'll always point to the weapon itself as the offender... unless it's in the hands of a cop, of course.

-Frem

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 4:00 PM

OONJERAH

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
And if he pulled it accidently he's STILL on the hook cause you keep your goddamn booger-hook OFF the freakin bangswitch till you ARE meaning to shoot something, for just that reason.
Topping THAT off, you do not, repeat DO NOT, point a firearm directly AT someone you don't plan to shoot with it, EVER.

-Frem

My thoughts exactly.

======================
A man's gotta know if his brain is operational.

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 5:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Of course, there are those who wanna blame weapons as an insidious excuse to enable other abuses, who'll always point to the weapon itself as the offender... unless it's in the hands of a cop, of course."

Don't know anyone who's made that argument here - so, care to name names, cite cites, quote quotes, and link links?

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Sunday, November 17, 2013 2:49 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Oh please, Kiki, was there any doubt whatever that such was directed at you, especially after your drive-by-strawmanning there ?

And yes, you DO make that argument, blaming the weapons is soooo much easier than the culture of fear and lack of mental health care and sufficient economic security which contributes more than anything else to violence, which is what convinces me there's an agenda involved.

One thing that does not help, is whipping up such hysteria that folks panic and go to pieces at the mere sight of a firearm, even one slung on a hunters back as he goes out into the backwoods for hunt up some game, that contributes as well.

Of course, seems the police, who have been beyond any rational doubt whatsoever to be the worst offenders in terms of firearms misuse, abuse and improper handling, get a free pass from the very self-same people, and is the crowner that firmly convinces me the agenda isn't to improve public safety at all, but rather to disarm and disable any faction not "on side", and historically that's been a very bad idea with terrible consequences every single time, not to mention as logistically and realistically impossible as Prohibition, the "War on (some) Drugs" and the "War on Terror", do we really need to keep doubling down on stupid ?

Going after weapon ownership is addressing it from the wrong end, just like addressing proper education, access to contraception and womens rights would put paid to the abortion debate by removing that which leads to it, so to would addressing the culture of fear, the insanity of our society, and it's exploitive and oppressive nature which leads to violence, whether weapons are involved or not.

Why hack branches when you can dig up the root ?
Why repeatedly attack those who wish to do just that and put forth effort into it, unless that isn't REALLY what you're about ?

So yeah, I meant you, not that such was in any doubt, as I said.
Why don't ya take the high road and leave bullshit like driveby strawmanning to the rightwingnuts who are already proper laughingstocks instead of trying to claim that title for yourself ?

-F

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Sunday, November 17, 2013 3:07 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"especially after your drive-by-strawmanning"

You mean when I posted "If only a good man wth a gun ..."? That was directed at the NRA. And it wasn't strawmanning. For one thing, I offered no rebuttal to an easy target. For another, it's an argument they actually make. I merely applied their own argument differently. It was irony. Which I intend to use at every relevant occasion.

"And yes, you DO make that argument, blaming the weapons is soooo much easier than the culture of fear and lack of mental health care and sufficient economic security ..."

So, my whole lengthy debate with Geezer over his support for the NRA's 'fix' for school shootings - armed guards at every school - went by you, did it?

Like Geezer, your posts would be so much more effective if you directed them towards the arguments actually made here, instead of towards some foggy generic 'them'.

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Sunday, November 17, 2013 3:33 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Like Geezer, your posts would be so much more effective if you directed them towards the arguments actually made here, instead of towards some foggy generic 'them'.

Take your own advice perhaps ?
And while you're at it, consider that perhaps my position and Geezers position on any particular topic might not be the same ?
I know it's soooo much easier to categorize and then dismiss, especially when actual valid arguments are made, but perhaps addressing folks as individuals instead of collectively might be a good policy, instead of simply complaining when the "favor" is returned upon you ?

Just some thoughts.

-F

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Sunday, November 17, 2013 4:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Take your own advice perhaps ?"

Well, I didn't misdirect my reply to anyone here. It was a general ironic observation about the NRA.

I KNOW your positions are different from geezer's on many topics. But when either of you address me (thankfully geezer seems to have stopped) you rebut points I didn't make. That was the single commonality I noted.

As for your valid points - do you not read my posts? We agree this society brutalizes its members in order to extract the most out of us it can. We have different remedies. Neither your remedies nor mine are about to happen any time soon, maybe never. (Though I think the form of mine is more familiar and more likely to come about.) Given that, neither of our remedies to create a better society are not an answer for gun violence NOW. And maybe we shouldn't wait for ultimate solutions that may never happen.

What do you propose that can be done, if not now, then soon?

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Monday, November 18, 2013 2:58 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
What do you propose that can be done, if not now, then soon?

Well, on a Federal level I'd be heavily in favor of a 4.5% military/intelligence budget cut across the board, exempting only medical and mental health services for soldiers, and then return 0.5% of it into increased wages and benefits for them, which would ease the mental stress and burden as too damn many military households are so poor they're on food stamps and that shouldn't be, plus it would add a better buffer against unemployment on return - would also call a hearing on what could be done about post combat employment for soldiers who's jobs have been outsourced in the meantime.
There's more, but that'd be a start.

Of course, the devil of the details is usually more local, and on that front I've gotten behind and when I could aided some of the better measures we're rolling here, the VERY best of which was an expansion of access to mental health care around here, which to get done involved a ridiculous and bizarre chain-of-deals strategy I'd have thought impossible, but somehow Rahbi pulled it out and made it happen, he's a way cool dude.
http://www.annarbor.com/news/washtenaw-county-moves-to-hire-39-mental-
health-workers-to-accommodate-growing-demand/

Another thing is trying to shift the focus from retributive justice to restorative justice, cause a lot of people do stuff cause of "issues" or desperation rather than malice, and that should be considered.
http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/09/michigan_looks_to_expa
nd_menta.html
http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/09/bills_to_authorize_men
tal_heal.html

One thing this also does is start the process of treating drug addiction as a mental/psychological issue rather than a criminal one, which is damn useful.

Also, we've been, as I have mentioned elsewhere, keeping a tight lid on the police budget and behavior around here, via connecting one to the other and responding with budget cuts every time they act out - it's done wonders for not only their professionalism, but also effectiveness cause it removes the "If you have a hammer" syndrome by denying them unnecessary wartoys.
On top of that we prettymuch ORDERED them to stop busting people for marijuana, even though we kind of had to threaten the Sheriff with a recall cause he threw a hissy about it, but as the measure passed by a huge margin, we pointed out non-compliance would get him recalled by the same margin, and so far so good.
http://ballotpedia.org/Ypsilanti_City_Marijuana_Amendment_%28November_
2012%29

In the rare case an increase of personnel or budget has been necessary, this has been done, EMU is havin some issues with crime in large part due to the poverty situation in this area, which has just gotten worse, and added four more bodies to the roster, and the contract security companies across and down the street have added six more.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131115/SCHOOLS/311150117/1409/MET
RO/EMU-hire-more-police-after-string-crimes

Alas it doesn't always go our way though, some hoity toity management company just bought the nearest three apartment complexes to ours and is in the process of booting all their section 8 residents, legalities be damned - which on top of the SNAP cuts leaves a lot of now-homeless, hungry, angry, desperate people out on the street in midwinter right across the street from us, and THAT is gonna bump the crime problem, unfortunately.

We ARE trying to put back together the shattered pieces of one abandoned, run down, then bulldozed apartment complexes down the road here, but the first two companies involved made certain promises and then ran off with the money (Like I told em, but they didn't listen) and so finally it's getting done, but slowly, on a public/private partnership and part of the deal is gonna be section 8 - which is smart cause it's in an open area easy to secure and it's location doesn't encouage the kind of fortress mentality which aids a downward spiral, plus it's near a bus stop which will help even is piss poor as our local public transportation is...

There's no single stroke cure-all (although human/civil rights for youth WOULD go pretty fekkin far) but all big things are made up in the end of little things.
And the one little thing I think most important is Hope.

The hope of a better life, a better day, the hope to not starve, freeze, or be victimized... so long as a person HAS that, the drive to connect, to belong, to empathize, remains strong - but should hope die, that is when people close their minds, their hearts, and those secondary, selfish, violent drives take over.
Frankly I believe the primary cause of violence to *BE* the death of hope, because it removes the natural barriers to this behavior, since if you're dead/screwed anyway, why NOT go for broke, right ?

So I am of the mind it is HOPE we should offer unto people, and most emphatically *NOT* Force, Fear and Threat - as in my opinion that's exactly what got us to this nadir in the first damn place.

Quote:
“As long as the child will be trained not by love, but by fear, so long will humanity live not by justice, but by force. As long as the child will be ruled by the educator’s threat and by the father’s rod, so long will mankind be dominated by the policeman’s club, by fear of jail, and by panic of invasion by armies and navies.”

Boris Sidis, from “A lecture on the abuse of the fear instinct in early education” in Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 1919.

While it's never as simple as a soundbite, one can do what they can do, in expanding rings according to their influence - around here, the closer the circle shrinks, the more I can do.. this little speck of dirt is a bastion of peace and safety in a place not really known for it, and some part of that has bled over cause even the local yahoos not only leave us be, but also occasionally throw us a heads up cause when it comes right down to it even most crooks don't wanna be burgled or shot at cause they're human too.
As the circle expands, sure, less influence, and to that I say add more people, cause a collective push towards sanity is gonna require some serious grunt work from where we are now - but it *is* happening, that much is not in doubt.

-Frem

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