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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Fox News proves that Americans don't know their history
Friday, January 17, 2014 11:18 AM
ELVISCHRIST
Friday, January 17, 2014 1:08 PM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Friday, January 17, 2014 1:16 PM
STORYMARK
Friday, January 17, 2014 4:26 PM
Friday, January 17, 2014 6:49 PM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:"If you ask most people, they don’t even know why we left England," she said. "They don’t even know why some guy in Boston got his head blown off because he tried to secretly raise the tax on tea. Most people don’t know that." We can’t fact-check what Americans do or do not know. But what’s clear is there appears to be no story of "some guy in Boston" getting "his head blown off because he tried to secretly raise the tax on tea." Early American history experts were generally puzzled over what Tantaros was talking about and thought she might have mashed a few Revolutionary War-era stories together. But our experts were certain on a couple of things: 1. No one secretly tried to raise the tax on tea. In 1767, The British parliament imposed a series of duties on goods being imported to the colonies -- including on tea. The laws implementing the tariffs are called the Townshend Acts, after Charles Townshend, who came up with the idea. Many prominent colonists objected, arguing that under British law colonists could not be taxed without having representation in parliament. All of the tariffs were repealed in 1770, except the tariff on tea. The 1773 Tea Act, which spawned the Boston Tea Party (and more than 200 years later was part of the inspiration for the tea party political movement), did not increase taxes on tea, said University of North Texas associate professor Guy Chet. What it did, essentially, was create a tax break for the British-held East India Company that would allow it to sell tea cheaper in America than anyone else (even cheaper than tea smuggled into the colonies). Colonists refused the ploy to prop up the East India Company and legitimize British colonial rule, and boarded the first tea ships in Boston and dumped the tea overboard. "The Tea Act is routinely and understandably (but incorrectly) lumped in with these other other laws that did raise taxes," said Chet, author of Conquering the American Wilderness: The Triumph of European Warfare in Colonial New England. Point being: No secret, and no direct effort to increase the tax. 2. The man who tried to tax tea on colonists wasn’t in Boston when he died. If you had to identify one person as the tax on tea guy, it’d be Townshend, who was chancellor of the Exchequer. But he didn’t die in the colonies and certainly didn’t have his head blown off. Townshend barely lived past the passing of the Townshend Acts. He died Sept. 4, 1767, of a "putrid fever." "I don't know what Tantaros is talking about. Sounds like bunk to me," said Benjamin L. Carp, an associate professor of early American history at Tufts University and author of Defiance of the Patriots: The Boston Tea Party and the Making of America. "No one in British North America tried secretly to raise the tax on tea, much less get his head blown off for the attempt," said Samuel A. Forman, who blogs about revolutionary history and wrote Dr. Joseph Warren: The Boston Tea Party, Bunker Hill, and the Birth of American Liberty. 3. It’s hard to say who "got his head blown off," if anyone. Forman speculated that Tantaros may have been talking about Joseph Warren, who was president of the Massachusetts Provincial Congress. Warren was killed at the early Revolutionary War battle of Bunker Hill on June 17, 1775. He was shot in the head, "dying heroically at the climax of the battle," Forman said. (History buffs can watch a video of Forman describing Warren’s injuries.) Chet said Tantaro may have been referencing violence against British customs officers attempting to enforce existing taxes on tea. "Just as a matter of ballistics, it'd be pretty difficult to blow someone's head off with 18th century weaponry unless you were using artillery," Carp said. "Although maybe you could do the trick with small arms; you'd have to ask a weapons expert." Our ruling Tantaros, in lamenting Americans’ knowledge of U.S. history, said, "Some guy in Boston got his head blown off because he tried to secretly raise the tax on tea." No one got their head blown off for that reason, and no one secretly tried to raise the tax on tea. The British government imposed duties on a number of goods in 1767, including tea. The 1773 Tea Act actually would have made tea cheaper for colonists, though it would have done so by propping up the British-held East India Company. The man responsible for the original tax died of a fever in Britain. Tantaros appeared to be trying to make the point that Americans -- who live in a country that is less economically free, according to one report -- forget what the lack of freedom feels like. That position may or may not be supported by their lack of knowledge of the lead-up to the Revolutionary War. But it’s not supported by her version of history because it did not happen. We rate her claim Pants on Fire! http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/16/andrea-tantaros/tantaros-says-americans-dont-know-their-history-th/
Friday, January 17, 2014 6:56 PM
Quote:Whatever the hell she was talking about, it obviously had no connection to any American history. There's nothing "silly" about the fact that FauxNews puts out things which are untrue, which, as we've seen over and over, their audience eats up as "fact" and runs with. Any "news" organization that claims to be such should be held accountable...which of course they don't want to be, especially given they went to court for the RIGHT to lie about the news.
Friday, January 17, 2014 7:19 PM
Friday, January 17, 2014 8:49 PM
Saturday, January 18, 2014 2:09 AM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Saturday, January 18, 2014 9:09 AM
Saturday, January 18, 2014 9:33 AM
Saturday, January 18, 2014 10:22 AM
SHINYGOODGUY
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Well, Mark, you know those "pointed headed historians" are like the other "elites", scientists, educators; why bother with anything they say? That's how it is now...they all get dismissed over whatever the talking heads on FauxNews say, 'cuz they know it all. Actually funnier than shit, that she was talking about Americans being mentally lazy and not knowing their history, then points out they don't know something about history which didn't even happen. That's sort of the point of the article, which of course Rap missed entirely.
Saturday, January 18, 2014 10:24 AM
Saturday, January 18, 2014 10:44 AM
WHOZIT
Saturday, January 18, 2014 1:19 PM
Quote:Tantaros and other The Five panelists were talking about a new report from the conservative Heritage Foundation. Tantaros said countries ahead of the United States, like Estonia, are more economically free because they "actually know their history, and they study their history, and they study ours and what we’re doing here." Americans, on the other hand, have gotten lazy and complacent, she suggested. "If you ask most people, they don’t even know why we left England," she said. "They don’t even know why some guy in Boston got his head blown off because he tried to secretly raise the tax on tea. Most people don’t know that." http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/16/andrea-tantaros/tantaros-says-americans-dont-know-their-history-th/
Quote:I do trust this poll. I believe this poll. You know, the countries that you mentioned, also the thing that separates them from us is they actually know their history and they study their history, and they study ours and what we’re doing here. And it was also not too long ago that they were suffering at the hands of socialism and communism. I think the biggest thing that hurts this country is we don’t teach history. If you ask most people, they don’t know why we left England. They don’t even know why some guy in Boston had his head blown off because he tried to secretly raise the tax on tea. Most people don’t know that. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2014/01/17/punditfact-fox-newser-andrea-tantaross-pants-on-fire/
Saturday, January 18, 2014 1:59 PM
Quote: I can't figure out what Rap is trying to do with this...he seems to be saying that somehow the woman either didn't say what she did, or there was more "context" needed to explain what she said. That isn't logical; she said what she said.
Saturday, January 18, 2014 5:37 PM
MAGONSDAUGHTER
Saturday, January 18, 2014 5:44 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: You normally don't 'reserve judgement' if it something that a democrat or liberal has allegedly done.
Quote: Why not just admit it was a stupid thing to say.
Saturday, January 18, 2014 5:48 PM
Saturday, January 18, 2014 10:21 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Because normally when they say something, it's asinine and stupid.
Saturday, January 18, 2014 10:38 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: So that would mean that your sole criteria for determining whether what someone says is rubbish or not, is where they are on the political spectrum, not through evidence or facts or anything like that.
Quote: Yep, I think that sums you up perfectly.
Quote: Fox News/Right winged commentator - accept version of truth without need for verification. Left wing commentator - dispute claims without need for verification. Very sloppy.
Saturday, January 18, 2014 11:29 PM
Sunday, January 19, 2014 3:07 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Nope. Re-read what I posted. I said ' normally '. If the Leftie is talking matters of politics or policy, it often is asinine or stupid. If they're saying the sun rises in the East, or some such, I don't discount it simply because of where they fall on the political spectrum.
Sunday, January 19, 2014 8:39 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:That isn't logical; she said what she said. Maybe.
Quote:That isn't logical; she said what she said.
Sunday, January 19, 2014 9:09 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: But nevertheless, you are reserving judgement, something you don't 'normally' do with someone from the Left. Therefore someone's political allegiance changes how much you scrutinise what they say.
Sunday, January 19, 2014 9:13 AM
Monday, January 20, 2014 11:45 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Storybook, you truly are 1 god damn stupid mother fucker.
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 11:20 AM
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 1:34 PM
BIGDAMNNOBODY
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 5:19 PM
Quote:Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY: It's okay Marky. Remember, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.
Quote:Now why don't you do some coloring?
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:04 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Being called stupid by one who is wrong about virtually everything it says is a badge of honor. Note that for all its whining about context, it doesn't actually seek it out - it knows there is no context that would make what she said less stupid, but if it actually looked at the full conversation, it wouldn't be able to bitch about us ignoring the context. Just a sad little thing, is is.
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:11 PM
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:32 PM
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