Serenity: Leaves on the Wind #3 Discussion (SPOILERS) by Mutt999

I agree, I was giggling a little too maniacally myself...

This is actually going somewhere. I like it. Took me a few seconds to get who was on the last page, though

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Thursday, March 27, 2014 8:43 PM

MOOSE

That was a rather satisfying scene.

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Friday, March 28, 2014 12:54 AM

GWEK

I've been very disappointed with the series up to this point, but the issue was good. The twist at the end was a welcome one. I'll be interested to see if he'll be around for the rest of the series, or just a single issue.

I thought we got to see an interesting side of Jayne, although it was borderline out-of-character. Similarly, while Kaylee's gumption DID make me cheer, once my initial response wore off, I couldn't help but think that it was pretty out-of-character. She just doesn't have that steel in her spine, at least not that we've seen.

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Friday, March 28, 2014 9:05 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

I looked for the shirt Jayne wears in the comic by using the phrase "firefly jayne pin-up girl shirt"

I found it! Not buying it, but pleased it is for sale.

www.amazon.com/Firefly-Jayne-Pin-Up-Girl-T-Shirt/dp/B008A3Y7W6/
http://store.qmxonline.com/Pin-Up-Girl-T-Shirt_p_143.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, March 28, 2014 9:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
I couldn't help but think that it was pretty out-of-character. She just doesn't have that steel in her spine, at least not that we've seen.

Little girls grow up, hon. And Kaylee IS smarter than your average bear in some ways. Hell, she could be running her own ship in a few years...
I've been around long enough to know people sometimes change in ways you can't expect. I also get the feeling she was just messing with Jubal. Mind games are FUN

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Friday, March 28, 2014 12:05 PM

MUTT999

Comic book sales for January. 29th overall but #1 Dark Horse seller!
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2014/2014-01.html

Comic book sales for February. 42nd overall but #2 Dark Horse seller (right behind Star Wars).
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2014/2014-02.html

I wonder how Dark Horse can justify NOT extending the series past 6 issues. Especially since they have other titles selling way, way fewer copies, and those comics are still being published.

Just sayin'.

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Friday, March 28, 2014 2:13 PM

I don't think it has as much to do with Dark Horse, as it does the Whedon Clan and writing and authorizing them...

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Saturday, March 29, 2014 1:26 PM

DALEK!

Does no one find it laughable that Early can take out a whole ship and a group of Fed Soldiers but Kaylee can take him out with a wrench? Not to mention that Mal for some reason knows were to find the Operative.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, March 29, 2014 1:35 PM

SUASOR

The bounty hunter did a number on Kaylee the first time around and I figure she has been hunkering for some payback ever since. Women can be like that, plus she's comfortable around heavy objects.

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Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:13 PM

You saying a woman can't be stealthy and hit a man who has just been distracted by tea over the head witha wrench? Wow, do you have a low opinion of women... P.S. I've got a whole drawer of my own damn wrenches if y'all wanna test that theory

Also, I'd imagine there ain't a whole lotta places in the 'verse that offer the kind of solitude a man that just realized he'd been killing the wrong people his ENTIRE career could offer. Sure it's a stretch, but we know by now Mal's got some mad skills up his sleeve. If it was book form or movie form, I'm sure we'd get a long winded explanation, and we may still yet, but not a whole lotta time in 20 pages of comic....

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Sunday, March 30, 2014 1:18 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
You saying a woman can't be stealthy and hit a man who has just been distracted by tea over the head witha wrench? Wow, do you have a low opinion of women... P.S. I've got a whole drawer of my own damn wrenches if y'all wanna test that theory

Also, I'd imagine there ain't a whole lotta places in the 'verse that offer the kind of solitude a man that just realized he'd been killing the wrong people his ENTIRE career could offer. Sure it's a stretch, but we know by now Mal's got some mad skills up his sleeve. If it was book form or movie form, I'm sure we'd get a long winded explanation, and we may still yet, but not a whole lotta time in 20 pages of comic....

No. I'm not saying a women can't stealthy and hit a man with a wrench. It has nothing to do with Kaylee being a women. It has to do with Kaylee being Kaylee and Early being whom he is. Had it been Zoe or River, or even perhaps Inara it would have been believable. Not so much with Kaylee. More so when we has seen that Early apparently has the skills to take out large numbers of people at will. Plus if you go back you will see that Early was not distracted by a cup of tea.

The scene with Early in the chair afterwords does not suit Kaylee either.

Now perhaps we will get an explanation on how Mal knew were the Operative was in the next chapter. If does not have to be but a few lines. Having limited pages is not an excuse for piss poor writing.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Sunday, March 30, 2014 11:08 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
The scene with Early in the chair afterwords does not suit Kaylee either.

Zack Whedon has been building up Jubal Early as the super bad-ass for 3 issues. Somebody will untie him from that chair in the next 3 issues or else having Early in the story was just a waste of paper. Since Jubal destroyed a ship, killing all but two of the crew, Mal should slaughter Early. Not killing Early is out of character for Mal. Remember Mal kicking somebody into Serenity's engine?

Maybe Mal has a job for Early? Mal will untie Early.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, March 30, 2014 2:10 PM

GWEK

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
You saying a woman can't be stealthy and hit a man who has just been distracted by tea over the head witha wrench? Wow, do you have a low opinion of women... P.S. I've got a whole drawer of my own damn wrenches if y'all wanna test that theory

Also, I'd imagine there ain't a whole lotta places in the 'verse that offer the kind of solitude a man that just realized he'd been killing the wrong people his ENTIRE career could offer. Sure it's a stretch, but we know by now Mal's got some mad skills up his sleeve. If it was book form or movie form, I'm sure we'd get a long winded explanation, and we may still yet, but not a whole lotta time in 20 pages of comic....

No. I'm not saying a women can't stealthy and hit a man with a wrench. It has nothing to do with Kaylee being a women. It has to do with Kaylee being Kaylee and Early being whom he is. Had it been Zoe or River, or even perhaps Inara it would have been believable. Not so much with Kaylee. More so when we has seen that Early apparently has the skills to take out large numbers of people at will. Plus if you go back you will see that Early was not distracted by a cup of tea.

The scene with Early in the chair afterwords does not suit Kaylee either.

Now perhaps we will get an explanation on how Mal knew were the Operative was in the next chapter. If does not have to be but a few lines. Having limited pages is not an excuse for piss poor writing.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

I agree with all this. Zack Whedon is not Joss Whedon, and that's too bad. I'll admit that he has many of the character voices down, but I think he's missed out on the essence of who the characters are.

In a sense, I would say that Zack is giving the audience what they WANT rather than what they NEED (the exact inverse of what makes brother Joss so brilliant). Jubal Early as the equivalent of Expanded Universe Boba Fett, who kills a dozen men without pause and then sits down for sushi. Rough-and-tumble Kaylee dishing out some frontier justice. The ridiculousness of Kaylee/Simon and Mal/Inara doing nothing but sexing up for nine months straight. Mal buddying up to the Operative. Heck, just the fact that Jubal and the Operative are in the same issue of a comic book...

It's all in good fun, but it's all UNEARNED, and that smacks of bad writing. One or two jumps would be okay, but there are SO many. It feels more like warmed-over fanfic than a good episode of FIREFLY. It's still fun, it's just not well-written fun.

Perhaps we should count our blessings and just be glad that Zoe's cell-mate didn't turn out to be Saffron.

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Sunday, March 30, 2014 2:58 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:

I thought we got to see an interesting side of Jayne, although it was borderline out-of-character.

Myself, I think Zack Whedon's doing something interesting here. Jayne's had a minor epiphany, one that's forced him to acknowledge that he's just not all that bright, something he's never admitted before. And he's starting to review his actions in light of that new self-knowledge.

I think he actually thought he was doing good, or at least doing no harm, in bringing the New Resistance folk into contact with Mal. "Hey' they're against the Alliance; Mal ain't never stopped being a Browncoat--he just might be grateful for this, and I can pick up some good cash in the process, it's a win-win!"

Except his confrontation with Mal in #2 pointed out exactly how gorram stupidthis was, with the destruction of the NR ship as shining proof of the point. Jayne is feeling something he's only rarely experienced before: Shame. We've seen this side of him before, at the endings of "Jaynestown" and "Ariel", but it's never stuck. This time it just might.

As for Jubal Early, he's been presented as he was in his first appearance: A frighteningly competent hunter, with a major Achilles heel in that he seems to always underestimate his opponents. Mal's probably keeping him alive as a potential source of information, but I don't rate his long-term survival prospects very high after that, although I doubt Simon or Kaylee would stand for cold-blooded murder without protest.

On the broader scope of the story, I really like the way the plot is developing. The reaction(s) of the 'Verse to the Miranda broadwave are believably scattershot, with some nicely satirical echos of real-world controversies. I particularly like Bea's somewhat exaggerated opinion of Mal's abilities. "He's the greatest military mind alive..." Huh? He's an excellent and flexible on-the-run tactician, and a decent strategist, but he's no Patton or Rommel. On the other hand, he is (to public perception/legend at least), the man who held Serenity Valley single-handed for seven weeks. It could be his value as a rallying point is far greater than his actual use as a military asset.

And I'm hoping Bea can make Mal realize that he can't pretend he's not back in the fight. He made that decision on Miranda, and while it cost him and his badly, once you mount the tiger, you cannot soon dismount.

Looking forward to the rest of the series.

"Hermanos! The Devil has built a robot! Andale!"
--Numero Cinco

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Sunday, March 30, 2014 7:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
The scene with Early in the chair afterwords does not suit Kaylee either.

I'm sorry you don't see Kaylee having stones (is it that she likes dresses???). As a woman who has worked in an all male field before, lemme assure you, she does. I'm sure she would have had to take a lotta crap, from guys AND other women just to be able to do what she wants... I'm sure she just didn't have occasion to USE her stones before. And she was just a second ahead of him, so yanno, sometimes you do just get to be in the right place at the right time...

...And really, the thing you have a problem with is THAT? That a sweet girl did something to a guy that threatened to rape her???

I guess I just don't get why THAT is sucha stretch...

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Monday, March 31, 2014 3:31 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity

Kaylee has a lot of stones and is very smart. She played a major part in planning the heist of the laser gun. She is well aware Serenity operates outside the law and the risk of that.

Miker

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Monday, March 31, 2014 5:49 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
Kaylee has a lot of stones and is very smart. She played a major part in planning the heist of the laser gun. She is well aware Serenity operates outside the law and the risk of that.

Miker

Kaylee goes ninja on a killer robot in Serenity Better Days #1, March 2008

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, April 1, 2014 8:08 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
The scene with Early in the chair afterwords does not suit Kaylee either.

I'm sorry you don't see Kaylee having stones (is it that she likes dresses???). As a woman who has worked in an all male field before, lemme assure you, she does. I'm sure she would have had to take a lotta crap, from guys AND other women just to be able to do what she wants... I'm sure she just didn't have occasion to USE her stones before. And she was just a second ahead of him, so yanno, sometimes you do just get to be in the right place at the right time...

...And really, the thing you have a problem with is THAT? That a sweet girl did something to a guy that threatened to rape her???

I guess I just don't get why THAT is sucha stretch...

No, my problem is not that Kaylee is a sweet girl and did something to Early. It what she did. For Kaylee it is not believeable. There are a whole ton of ways she could have neutralised Early that would have shown she can be brave, or have stones as you put it, and fit her character. Tricking him into touching a door or panel she had electrified, fining a way to trap him in a room while she evacts the air until he passes out, and a bunch of other way Kaylee could have beat Early and still been in character. Plus it would have have taken away for Early's near superhuman ablities that we have seen in the comics up until now.

Kaylee threatening Early after is even worse. Kaylee is a nice person and I don't think she has that in her. For different reason I cannot see Mal threatening to torture anyone either. I can see him threating to shoot someone if they did not tell him what he wanted, but not torture them.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, April 1, 2014 9:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by M52NICKERSON:

Tricking him into touching a door or panel she had electrified, fining a way to trap him in a room while she evacts the air until he passes out, and a bunch of other way Kaylee could have beat Early and still been in character.

Kaylee threatening Early after is even worse. Kaylee is a nice person and I don't think she has that in her. For different reason I cannot see Mal threatening to torture anyone either. I can see him threating to shoot someone if they did not tell him what he wanted, but not torture them.

IN THE TWO MINUTES HE WAS ON THE SHIP???? Are you delusional??? Maybe if she knew he was coming, but not in that length of time... She had to think fast. And in what book is it written that generally nice people are not capable or do not commit violence? I can show you a whole buncha articles of young girls even younger than her picking up a gun and shooting intruders, beating people for lesser offences, and this is certainly no different.
Like I said, I still think she's messing with him... Anticipation of torture can be worse for some and we never see her touch him, do we?
Just wait for the next one before you go judging...
Still, I wouldn't blame her one bit if she did beat the shit out of him, either way... Here, I'll help. Hand me a clamp

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Tuesday, April 1, 2014 10:38 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
IN THE TWO MINUTES HE WAS ON THE SHIP???? Are you delusional??? Maybe if she knew he was coming, but not in that length of time... She had to think fast. And in what book is it written that generally nice people are not capable or do not commit violence? I can show you a whole buncha articles of young girls even younger than her picking up a gun and shooting intruders, beating people for lesser offences, and this is certainly no different.
Like I said, I still think she's messing with him... Anticipation of torture can be worse for some and we never see her touch him, do we?
Just wait for the next one before you go judging...
Still, I wouldn't blame her one bit if she did beat the shit out of him, either way... Here, I'll help. Hand me a clamp

Two minutes? Early was on the ship long enough after knocking Simon out, which Kaylee sees him doing, to lock Janye in his room, capture Mal and Brea and tie them up in the cargo hold. So it was longer than two minutes Kaylee had. Hell she should have had enough time to get to a com and warn Mal.

Some nice people can commit violent acts, but not all of them. What we have seen of Kaylee is that she is really not one of those people. In War Stories she was a mess when faced with people shooting at her. In Objects it took a lot of coaxings from River to get her to act, and then it was not to directly confront Early.

No one would blame Kaylee from beating the ever living hell out of Early, but that is not her character. That is the problem. Zack is making the mistake that a badass female character equals a strong female character. That is not so.

It is not even an the whoel issue with the idea of her hitting with the wrench. Part of it is the idea that someone with no appearent physical training can sneak up on someone as highly trained as Early. More so after we see Early acting damn near like a super hero taking people out left and right. This is how crappy writers try and make people seem more menacing only to have that fall apart when the seemignly unbeatable foe is taked out so simply. If Early get that sloppy he would have never gotten as far as he has.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, April 1, 2014 2:02 PM

The Dead or Alive script suggests Kaylee has a dark side - maybe not well developed or hidden, but it's there, just like it is with everyone. Don't overestimate how "innocent" Kaylee is, that's how people got tripped up thinking she was innocent about boys until the Out of Gas flashback, and Joss doesn't usually write one trick flat personality ponies. Maybe she got the jump on Jubal because he still remembered their previous run in and just dismissed her as not a threat.

And even if you don't buy that, this is Kaylee post-Miranda, post-shooting Reavers in a desperate last stand, post running around the ass end of the verse for about nine months. And Jubal Early threatened to rape her once before. If you thought any Whedon was going to have a female character just break down sobbing and accept Jubal's dominance over them after that (again), well... That's not the Whedon way.

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Tuesday, April 1, 2014 2:37 PM

DALEK!

Kaylee's openess regarding sex does not speak to her ability to sneak up on a highly trained bounty hunter.

Kaylee's actions in the BDM never seem to fit well with her character from the show to me. I think you can give that somewhat of a pass because one she had the rest of the crew right there with her and shooting Reavers is not the same as hurting a person. Reavers are basicly monsters, and ones that hardly shoot back.

In a different situation, such as during a fight, I can see Kaylee hitting someone with a big ass wrench. I can even see her trying to sneak up on Early and try it if she had no other choices. Saying that Early just dismissed her does not realy help because it make Early look foolish, and a lot less scary or badass. Something that a man capable of doing the things he has in the comic to this point would not be.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, April 1, 2014 3:24 PM

Sounds to me your problem isn't really about Kaylee's characterization, more Jubal's. But in Objects in Space, wasn't Jubal's downfall there that he was trying to be all that and more, this scary unpredictable guy in body armor the color of blood, that he had cased them all and knew all their limitations and they couldn't beat him?

But really he was just another mercenary psycho with nasty childhood tendencies who liked intimidating people into giving him power over them and thought too much of himself. And being a psychopath doesn't make him unstoppable or invincible. It doesn't make him prescient. He's a bounty hunter, what training he has consists of the life he's had - and one time a little man who loved fire got the best of him. So can River. So can Kaylee.

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Tuesday, April 1, 2014 4:45 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Sounds to me your problem isn't really about Kaylee's characterization, more Jubal's. But in Objects in Space, wasn't Jubal's downfall there that he was trying to be all that and more, this scary unpredictable guy in body armor the color of blood, that he had cased them all and knew all their limitations and they couldn't beat him?

But really he was just another mercenary psycho with nasty childhood tendencies who liked intimidating people into giving him power over them and thought too much of himself. And being a psychopath doesn't make him unstoppable or invincible. It doesn't make him prescient. He's a bounty hunter, what training he has consists of the life he's had - and one time a little man who loved fire got the best of him. So can River. So can Kaylee.

My problem is with the whole scene. I don't think Kaylee given the situation present would choose to sneak up and hit Early. She is smarter than that. Hitting someone with something heavy when you as a little time to plan is Jayne's top line idea, but Kaylee's. In Heart of Gold Kaylee and Wash come up with a plan, very quickly, to neutralise the three men on the ship. Granted it did not work out perfect, but it was better then them trying to shoot it out with the three.

I agree that being a psychopath doesn't make Early unstoppable or invincible, but up until now that is the way he has been portrayed in the comic. Beating up a group of Fed, who were armed and knew he was there. Killing every person on Brea's ship. He had been this seemingly unstoppable force, well until Kaylee got the drop on him.

Early's overall actions are stupid to begin with. There are a ton of ways he could have gone about things once he was on Serenity. Hell he could have snuck into the engine room and disabled the ship and than waved the Feds. He could have not destroyed Brea's ship and let her and Jayne go meaning even less people to deal with on Serenity.

Zach seems to be jumping up to some "fangasm" finally instead of putting the work in and creating a solid story. He is just giving fans things they want, more Early, more Operative...hell I will be surprised if Saffron does not come into play at some point. Not to mention that we look to be headed to having a small army of Rivers. Gee, a group of young girls who are able to kick a large amount of ass, never seen that before.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, April 1, 2014 4:51 PM

Quote:
I don't think Kaylee given the situation present would choose to sneak up and hit Early.

So instead of knocking out a threat straight away, you think Kaylee should have used the window of time she had to come up with a complicated zany scheme with mechanical engineering components. This instead of doing something that would probably be more immediate and reactive and instinctive for her.

And you think we should have spent a lot more time with the crew getting taken out one by one again by a minor one time villain that they'd dealt with before, instead of nipping the problem in the bud right away and giving the character who had been most affected by that same antagonist some closure.

Quote:
Not to mention that we look to be headed to having a small army of Rivers. Gee, a group of young girls who are able to kick a large amount of ass, never seen that before.

You really thought there weren't going to be others?

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Wednesday, April 2, 2014 7:29 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
So instead of knocking out a threat straight away, you think Kaylee should have used the window of time she had to come up with a complicated zany scheme with mechanical engineering components. This instead of doing something that would probably be more immediate and reactive and instinctive for her.

And you think we should have spent a lot more time with the crew getting taken out one by one again by a minor one time villain that they'd dealt with before, instead of nipping the problem in the bud right away and giving the character who had been most affected by that same antagonist some closure.

Well she did not knock him out straight away. She saw him attacking Simon in the infirmary. Early than makes his way up to the shuttle to deal with Mal, locks Inara and Jayne in the crew quarters and deals with Brea in the lounge. So Kaylee had time to come up with something more than hitting him with a wrench.

Even worse is the fact that while Early is talking to himself trying to remember who else was left Kaylee say "the mechanic" from behind him instead of just hitting him. She warnes the elite bounty hunter, who has taken out almost two full ships of people, and still is able to get the best of him.

Quote:
You really thought there weren't going to be others?

If there still are it make the Alliance really, really fucking stupid. Looking at all the trouble one River caused and no one thought it might not be safe to keep the rest around. It's not like there is soem vaste need for them. The Alliance already has control of the verse. That is not a hard risk–benefit analysis to do.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, April 2, 2014 2:24 PM