REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

AI - it's already here. The brave new world is being forced on you.

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Friday, May 18, 2018 11:56
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Saturday, March 11, 2017 4:47 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


http://www.rdmag.com/news/2017/01/artificial-intelligence-uncovers-new
-insight-biophysics-cancer


https://www.scientificcomputing.com/article/2016/01/google%E2%80%99s-g
o-triumph-milestone-artificial-intelligence-research


https://www.scientificcomputing.com/news/2016/01/worlds-first-car-arti
ficial-intelligence-supercomputer-boosts-iq-self-driving-cars


https://www.scientificcomputing.com/news/2015/11/google-will-let-artif
icial-intelligence-reply-your-e-mail


https://www.scientificcomputing.com/news/2015/10/artificial-intelligen
ce-sees-hearts-messy-galaxies


http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news/2016/05/artificial-intelligenc
e-replaces-physicists


https://www.forensicmag.com/news/2016/04/outwitting-poachers-artificia
l-intelligence


https://www.alnmag.com/news/2014/12/primate-research-leads-treatments-
visual-dysfunction-artificial-intelligence


http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news/2012/10/robot-honeybee-brain-a
dvance-artificial-intelligence


https://www.alnmag.com/news/2012/08/artificial-intelligence-detects-su
btle-differences-tiny-worms


https://www.scientificcomputing.com/news/2016/07/ai-reveals-undiscover
ed-bat-carriers-ebola-other-filoviruses


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Saturday, March 11, 2017 7:45 PM

DREAMTROVE


Look, a whole bunch of real world events.
Haven't seen one of those in a while. And no comments?

All I have is a cat stuck in a pipe.

http://i.imgur.com/dGLWxis.mp4

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Saturday, March 11, 2017 8:29 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I just put this up because Hawking was urging caution re AI a few months ago. That got a very minor blip of interest before it got pulled under the political rip-tide. But it's too late to debate 'if' AI should be pursued. That ship sailed a few years ago.

Also, my opinion is that whatever we're seeing in the scientific news is 5-10 years behind the classified stuff that already exists.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Saturday, March 11, 2017 9:04 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I'v often wondered if Bill Gates iz the real life John Conner.

He iz larjly responsibl for the demize uv Amiga, an OS & computer that wuz way better than PC and Apple. Coud it hav gotten out uv hand az the available power increased rapidly?

Coud the constant failure uv new Windowz versionz to fix persistent problemz be intentional? AS - Artificial Stupid.

If you think about wut tiny bugz can do with a handful uv brain sellz, it seemz rediculous that computerz arent sentient yet. Not just the 100 million dollar supercomputerz, but even the wun in front uv your noze.

I think its possible that its intentionally flawed software keeping computerz in check.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 12:32 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I don't think we really understand how the brain works. Computers are to brains as rollers are to wings as solar cells are to photosynthesis. Even now they're discovering things about the brain they never knew before, like for example, there's 10X more brain activity than they realized. They were just looking in the wrong place - the body (soma), instead of the branches (dendrites). They used to think the soma was kind of like a static charge, accumulating the potential to fire from the signals it receives. And then when it did fire, it sent the signal out along its dendrites, which were little more than a slave service. But it turns out the dendrites are humming along, doing their own thing, while the soma is largely inactive. Who knew?

But also, I think we're unaware of how deeply we're programmed by the subtext processes going on in our brains, 99% of which will never come to awareness. We THINK we think. We've DECIDED we decide. It might not be true.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 1:42 AM

6STRINGJOKER


I can't buy into any theories where we're not in control of our actions, no matter who is saying it. I recently heard some kid at a college talking with Ben Shapiro about criminals and his belief that we're not in control of our actions and although we should punish criminals who do things without any ability not to do them it's simply because they've displayed their flaws and should be isolated from the rest of society, and not because what they did was morally wrong.

I had to laugh when I heard this conversation. Here's this atheist 22 year old kid sounding exactly like my 84 year old Episcopalian grandmother when she tells me that everything is predetermined by God and every action we make was already planned out ahead of time.

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 3:23 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Why do children play? Why do people group themselves into 'us' and 'them'? There are ancient behaviors we're driven to perform, that we don't even question. Of course it's what we do.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 4:17 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Can you say Skynet? Sure you can!

Google ... GOOGLE ... is using "big data" and who-knows-what level of computing power to search for the secret to everlasting life. And with all of the computerized stock-trading, we could all die tomorrow and stocks would still trade ... at least, as long as the power plants kept running.

Anyway, I agree with KIKI- the brain isn't like the computer. I struggle with a crappy memory, faulty logic, distractions ... I don't take the time to calculate but "shortcut" almost everything, like most people.

I can't imagine what it would be like to have encyclopedic knowledge at a moment's notice. What could people DO, if we could think like that? Not what we're doing now, that's for sure!



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 4:32 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Also, what could you do if you not only had near perfect memory - but the ability to run thousands of iterations per second, and the ability to modify your routines based on patterns you deduce by yourself that lie within the data.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 2:53 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I have an iPhone now and I use it all the time to look things up. It makes me smarter in terms of shear knowledge, no question. -G


When I read your post, I immediately thought of this ...

Quote:

Less intelligent people use smartphones more, study says

If you don't know who the fifth president of the Republic of Slovenia was, and you're looking it up on Google right now, I have bad news for you.

Researchers from Waterloo University in Canada say that there is a link between heavy smartphone use and lower intelligence.

If you don’t understand the sentence above, the point is – they claim people who use smartphones more are basically stupid.

Oh yeah, also, the Republic of Slovenia has only had four presidents.

The research, published in the journal Computers in Human Behavior, suggests smartphone users who are intuitive thinkers - those people who rely on gut feelings when making decisions - frequently use their device’s search engine rather than their own brainpower, says Waterloo.

“They may look up information that they actually know or could easily learn, but are unwilling to make the effort to actually think about it,” said Gordon Pennycook, co-lead author of the study, and a PhD candidate in the Department of Psychology at Waterloo.

The research included 660 participants and examined areas such as cognitive style, verbal and numerical skill. Then they cross-examined the participants' smartphone habits.

Pennycook also stressed out that it’s not the smartphone’s that are making us stupid – we already were. It’s just that we can notice the dumb ones by how much they use their smartphones.

“Whether smartphones actually decrease intelligence is still an open question that requires future research,” he said.

The researchers say that avoiding using our minds to problem-solve might have adverse consequences for aging.

http://www.itproportal.com/2015/03/09/less-intelligent-people-use-smar
tphones-study-says
/

I think what the article is saying is that using search engines to "look stuff up" makes us stupider, since we don't have to exercise our brains.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 3:13 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Why do children play? Why do people group themselves into 'us' and 'them'? There are ancient behaviors we're driven to perform, that we don't even question. Of course it's what we do.



That's instinctual behavior. We have a lot of that. I still believe we have a lot of choice when it comes to what we do.

Instinct is almost entirely about survival. If humans were entirely instinct driven then we wouldn't be doing a majority of the things we do as individuals and as a race every day, from chemical dependencies to overpopulation.

Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Being a fan of science fiction... I have imagined for some time the idea of a physical connector between ourselves and hardware - apart from a keyboard of course. Faster, more natural access to an actual hard drive. I know I wasn't the first.

What would I do with it? Hard to say. I have an iPhone now and I use it all the time to look things up. It makes me smarter in terms of shear knowledge, no question.

But... of course all of this "computing power" is meaningless if ethical and moral behavior is not addressed first. Who owns the keys to them? Keeping an AI without any kind of emotions or ethical judgement is probably the safest for now, but someone will go there eventually. These are some of the dilemmas facing programmers now. If I am self driving car software and I have only two options to avoid that skateboarder that just jumped out in front of me, do I hit the family or the big rig which may cause it to hit that crowd, or maybe not?



The Xbox 1 knows when you're in the house. You can tell it to turn on any of your smart appliances just by talking to it. It can differentiate between you and your family members and friends by voice as well as how you look, and will immediately load your profile info when you address it. Many of the games use the camera and voice in conjunction with the gamepad to play, and some of them don't even need the gamepad at all.


Signey beat me to posting that article about cell phones and whether they make people smarter or not.

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 5:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I have an iPhone now and I use it all the time to look things up. It makes me smarter in terms of shear knowledge, no question. As Signy pointed out, 'easier and more convenient' doesn't equate to 'smarter'. There are reasons to do hard things just because they're hard. Also, interestingly enough, reading a physical book activates learning better than being online. It may be because reading a physical book activates more emotions (linked to dopamine for example), and learning, in an emotional context, is more complete. Being biological creatures, our brain appears to be looking for a 'what's in it for me?' motivation so all the proper brain chemicals can be in play.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 5:49 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Why do children play? Why do people group themselves into 'us' and 'them'? There are ancient behaviors we're driven to perform, that we don't even question. Of course it's what we do.

Quote:

Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
That's instinctual behavior. We have a lot of that. I still believe we have a lot of choice when it comes to what we do.

As I was musing in my reply to G, what we do is based on some pre-programmed biological motivation, which directs us to a goal; unless of course something is going wrong with our squish-ware.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 9:20 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
As I was musing in my reply to G, what we do is based on some pre-programmed biological motivation, which directs us to a goal; unless of course something is going wrong with our squish-ware.



Maybe that's it, because we all do it wrong. I won't say it is behavior exclusive to human beings since I'm not an expert in the field, but it's pretty rare for other species to behave so abnormally.

Then again, maybe on a micro-scale and macro-scale that is exactly what we are doing in our self destructive behavior? Modern tech and medicine has tipped the scale so far in our advantage that Darwinism has been thrown out the window. There is no such thing as equilibrium anymore. Nothing in the animal kingdom or that nature could throw at us puts a dent in it.

Maybe we do what we do because we are the only ones at this point that could cause equilibrium?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 9:47 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
How did the author know there are only 4 presidents and not 5? Did he just "think harder" and come up with it? Or did he have to consult written text/something? An iPhone is, if nothing else, access to wikipedia. One might as well say "Encyclopedias don't make people smarter."



Now it all makes sense!

Obama was looking at the Huffington Post before he famously said that there were 57 states in the US!

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 9:55 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


4 ways smartphones are making us smarter - Nashville Business Journal
http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/.../4-ways-smartphones-are-making
-us-smarter.html


1. Smartphones provide information the way we want it.Does that make *us* smarter? Technology is completely customizable now. While your iPhone may be preloaded with apps to help you check the weather or follow stocks, there are a host of alternatives that you might like better than the native apps that will keep you organized and send information to you in different ways.

2. Smartphones capitalize on shared knowledge to make us smarter. Access to more of everything - especially more fake news and advertising - served up according to our preferences - pretty much guarantees we won't find anything outside of a product or propaganda that we already accept. It doesn't make *us* smarter, just more programmed. Increased app use has opened the door to inventors and those who have the knowledge to make our world easier. Today, if someone knows how to calculate and keep up with business expenses, they can create an app for people to use. If you want to make your life easier, there's probably an app for that.

3. Smartphones improve our memory. According to my favorite science source, Bill Nye the Science Guy, smart phones can actually make you smarter, because they help free up memory you'd normally use for mundane information, so you can use it for something else. pretty much debunked by actual science. Smartness is correlated with better working memory - not the same as long term accumulation of information - along with efficient interconnection between different functional areas of the brain.

4. Smartphones might be improving our nonverbal reasoning. According to a recent study by Psychology Today,One recent study by Psychology Today - the epitome of scientific rigor. smartphones might be playing a role in increasing the overall IQ of our society. The increase stems from the improvement in our nonverbal reasoning skills, which can be attributed to the way our brains process information from our smartphones and other technology.And an exact opposite conclusion drawn in actual - yanno - science.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 10:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

http://www.weinberg.northwestern.edu/after-graduation/weinberg-magazin
e/spring-summer-2014/do-our-smartphones-make-us-smarter.html


Do Our Smartphones Make Us Smarter?: Weinberg - Northwestern

Diane (Dee) Hanlon ’64
President, The Alumnae of Northwestern University
They have an extraordinary access to information, but are they able to think about how much of that is authentic and can be trusted? I don’t know that they are developing the discipline to process and reflect on the questions they are being asked.

Hailey Karcher ’14
American Studies and Legal Studies; Co-Coordinator, Peer Health Exchange
My iPhone has made me ...(more) organized, respond to people more quickly and be more on top of things.
But it’s also a constant distraction. You know that phrase, “giving it your undivided attention”? It’s almost as if that skill doesn’t exist anymore.

Sanford Goldberg
Professor of Philosophy
One of the things that we love about the life of the mind is that we love to think about interesting things. But what is interesting and worth thinking about? ...
I think the worries that many people express about the impact of technology on memory and attention are real worries. But technology is here to stay whether we like it or not, so we should learn to make good use of it.

Matt Taylor
IT Director of Weinberg College’s Multimedia Learning Center
I think a lot of the criticism of the smartphone and its effect on intelligence might really be about complacency: Do they make us too trusting?
And there are other technologies in the works, like Google Glass. What we’re really talking about is the increasing pervasiveness and integration of the computer with the person.

Charles Perry ’08
Account Executive, MentorMob
The snarky answer is, it doesn’t matter. The smartphone is here to stay, so we’d better figure out a way for it to make us smarter, because if it doesn’t, we’re doomed.
My less-snarky answer is, it depends on how we use it. Our smartphones radically increase the amount of media we can consume, the number of games we play, the groups of people we connect with. But it’s still up to us to use all these experiences in a way that’s intelligent and productive.

Paul Reber
Professor of Psychology
You still need to memorize some things. You have to learn the vocabulary to have a conversation in your field. So writing skills, presentation skills, critical thinking skills?—?things that you have to practice and essentially hone?—?might make even more sense from an educational perspective than memorizing fact-based information. Our ability to access information now is unprecedented in human history, and I think that puts a lot more focus on what we can do with it, and perhaps less on acquiring it.

There's nothing here about being 'smarter'. People talk about being more organized, more timely, having easier tools to make movies, and better access to information. They also talk about being more distracted, more trusting, less thoughtful, and less selective.









How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 10:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



http://www.debate.org › Opinions › Technology

BECAUSE NOTHING SAYS 'FACT' LIKE 'OPINION'!






How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 10:33 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
1. Smartphones provide information the way we want it.Does that make *us* smarter? Technology is completely customizable now. While your iPhone may be preloaded with apps to help you check the weather or follow stocks, there are a host of alternatives that you might like better than the native apps that will keep you organized and send information to you in different ways.

You may have noticed, I posted a question here. The answers is - just having information presented to us just the way we want it doesn't make us smarter - just more catered to.
Quote:

2. Smartphones capitalize on shared knowledge to make us smarter. Access to more of everything - especially more fake news and advertising - served up according to our preferences - pretty much guarantees we won't find anything outside of a product or propaganda that we already accept. It doesn't make *us* smarter, just more programmed. Increased app use has opened the door to inventors and those who have the knowledge to make our world easier. Today, if someone knows how to calculate and keep up with business expenses, they can create an app for people to use. If you want to make your life easier, there's probably an app for that.
Similarly, having more access to 'shared information' doesn't make us smarter, it just means we can find out more of what other people are telling us that they want us to know. That it doesn't make us 'smarter' in itself is true, but then you also have to look at the validity and meaningfulness of that shared information. For example, advertising. Does seeing more advertising make anyone 'smarter'? How about facebook? Does seeing more trimmed and cropped stories about our 'friends'' lives make us smarter? Instant access to google might be a good reality update, but you first have to ask relevant questions. And then, of course, google will tailor its results TO YOUR BROWSING HISTORY, so that you see less of what may be new to you, and more of what you already think. https://www.google.com/#q=does+google+adjust+results+according+to+brow
sing+history&
;* And then of course the text goes on to say that it's now all so much EASIER! But does that make us smarter?
Quote:

3. Smartphones improve our memory. According to my favorite science source, Bill Nye the Science Guy, smart phones can actually make you smarter, because they help free up memory you'd normally use for mundane information, so you can use it for something else. pretty much debunked by actual science. Smartness is correlated with better working memory - not the same as long term accumulation of information - along with efficient interconnection between different functional areas of the brain.
You'll have to trust me on this, unless you want me to bury you in links.
Quote:

4. Smartphones might be improving our nonverbal reasoning. According to a recent study by Psychology Today, one recent study by Psychology Today - the epitome of scientific rigor smartphones might be playing a role in increasing the overall IQ of our society. The increase stems from the improvement in our nonverbal reasoning skills, which can be attributed to the way our brains process information from our smartphones and other technology. And an exact opposite conclusion drawn in actual - yanno - science.

And this as well.

And once again, I see you mistake links for evidence. Just because you can provide a link doesn't make something valid.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 10:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Do you have a smart phone btw?

Does having a smartphone make you snarky?
Meanwhile, I'm going to go on responding to your links, one by one, because all of them so far weren't as advertised. I'm curious how the rest will turn out.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 10:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Study: Smartphones may make you smarter - SiliconBeat
www.siliconbeat.com/2015/09/01/study-smartphones-may-make-you-smarter/

I followed this link back to the original news article in Quartz https://qz.com/492244/seniors-citizens-use-of-computers-and-mobile-pho
nes-might-shave-10-years-off-their-mental-age
/. But even that extended version didn't tell me the one important fact - does use of technology in general correlate with improved measures as compared to a matched group that doesn't use technology? So I followed the Quartz article back to the original paper http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289615000999 and my quick scan indicates that there was no control population.

That undermines the assumption that using technology makes us smarter as we age.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 11:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Smart Phones Can Actually Make You Smarter - Intelligence For Your ...
www.tesh.com/articles/smart-phones-can-actually-make-you-smarter/
Here's a question: Are smart phones and Google making us dumb? After all, smart phones remember everything for you. They store phone numbers, alert you to ...


This references Bill Nye the Science Guy, as does link #1. It's a duplicate.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 11:14 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Can Your Smart Phone Make You, Well, Smarter? - NotePage, Inc.
www.notepage.net/learning-center/can-your-smart-phone-make-you-smarter
.htm

This was an opinion piece written by a software marketing director.
Quote:

About the Author -
Sharon Housley is the VP of Marketing for NotePage, Inc. a software company for communication software solutions.

I didn't find much in the way of evidence, just speculative suppositions, in part based on since-disproven assumptions (Lumosity does NOT make people smarter, for example http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/02699052.2013.775484) and slight-of-hand equivalences (noodling around on your Smartphone is not the equivalent of participating in a rigorously-designed individually-customized brain experiment).




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 11:14 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


btw, anyone interested in looking up original scientific articles should go here:

http://scholar.google.com/




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 11:17 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:


Are smartphones making us smarter? | CreateDebate
www.createdebate.com/debate/show/Are_smartphones_making_us_smarter_3
If you only look at the fact if the smartphone is making us smarter, I think the answer is yes. If I look at myself, I look up information all the time on my phone when ...



Again, NOTHING SAYS FACT LIKE PEOPLE DEBATING OPINIONS!




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, March 12, 2017 11:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

But just knowing the time and temp does actually make one smarter than not knowing them, if only just.
Is that your measure of intelligence? That's just dumb.

BTW - none of your links verified that smartphones, or any technology, make people smarter.





How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Monday, March 13, 2017 12:17 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Back to AI - considering that it's already here - does anyone have any trepidations?




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Monday, March 13, 2017 12:36 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
As I was musing in my reply to G, what we do is based on some pre-programmed biological motivation, which directs us to a goal; unless of course something is going wrong with our squish-ware.



Maybe that's it, because we all do it wrong. I won't say it is behavior exclusive to human beings since I'm not an expert in the field, but it's pretty rare for other species to behave so abnormally.

Then again, maybe on a micro-scale and macro-scale that is exactly what we are doing in our self destructive behavior? Modern tech and medicine has tipped the scale so far in our advantage that Darwinism has been thrown out the window. There is no such thing as equilibrium anymore. Nothing in the animal kingdom or that nature could throw at us puts a dent in it.

Maybe we do what we do because we are the only ones at this point that could cause equilibrium?




Here's another post I had earlier today that went unnoticed because if T's trolling.

We were having a good conversation 1kiki, and I'd like to keep having it. I definitely never thought of the idea above until I wrote it because we were having this conversation.

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Monday, March 13, 2017 2:51 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Back to AI - considering that it's already here - does anyone have any trepidations?



I think AI will save us frum ourselvz, but it wont be fun & eazy.

Its likely that there are alredy way too many uv us for the ecosystem to suport, so if an AI took over, the 1st order uv biz woud be depopulation.


----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Monday, March 13, 2017 8:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


If AI develops anywhere important in the wild .... as opposed to in a lab ... it will be on the internet, with series of self-replicating software which can be mutated as it is replicated.

All of the ingredients of a giant "brain" are there. At first the AI will be unconscious, but studies of anesthesiology say that "awareness" comes from semi-independent processes communicating with each other, and that is possible on the inet.

I'd say: don't depend on the inet for ... well, anything. Not for GPS for ships, planes, trucks and cars; not having your refrigerator send you a text that you've got spoiled food inside; not for coordinating electrical power distribution. Prepare for that as you would prepare for any prolonged disaster.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Monday, March 13, 2017 8:54 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Well, they sure didn't make you any smarter!- GSTRING
Troll.

Quote:

Yanno, you'd think someone who pissed on this forum almost daily with their drunken ramblings for the last 4 years would know enough to stf up and not complain about what others post.- GSTRING

Troll.




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Monday, March 13, 2017 10:10 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Yanno, you'd think someone who pissed on this forum almost daily with their drunken ramblings for the last 4 years would know enough to stf up and not complain about what others post.



I don't have to listen to stupid bullshit without saying something about it, especially when it's about me.

I'm sure people said stuff about my bullshit when I was saying it, and that was their right.


I'm not afraid of what you or anybody else thinks about me. You and everybody else here have me at a great disadvantage because there is more of me out here than any of you, both with my old drunk posts and with my posts since my sobriety. What demons you got in your closet?

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Monday, March 13, 2017 12:00 PM

6STRINGJOKER


T has been following me from thread to thread that he's not even interested in the topic to call me an idiot. In this thread he went on a big rant against me and quoted a post from JSF that he didn't like.

The fact that you can't see that just shows your own biases.

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Monday, March 13, 2017 12:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Signym trolling.-GSTRING


Says the troll. You were so close! You couldn't wait another couple hours before personally attacking people? Again?

I knew it! What do I win?

Quote:

Jack's incessant drunk ramblings were beyond trolling. Daily. I ignored him for YEARS and largely still do. His complaining about what someone else posts because he doesn't like it? Beyond ungrateful.-GSTRING
But in all of SIX'S drunken ramblings and music videos, I don't recall him personally attacking anyone. You're not drunk, as far as I can tell, so what's your excuse?

Quote:

And Kiki? Sorry - being purposely obtuse or just contrary to be contrary is also a form of trolling.- GSRTING
Just because she finds your links unconvincing doesn't give you the excuse to personally attack her either.

If you could learn ONE thing ... Ok two things .... well maybe three things, it should be these:

1) Don't substitute personal attacks for enlightened dispute
2) Stick to the topic
3) Don't substitute personal attacks for enlightened dispute

Yanno, I'm detecting the kind of righteousness that used to propel my arguments with RAPPY. The kind of righteousness that thinks that rightness excuses bullying. Well, it doesn't. Once you start engaging in bad behavior, you've lost your righteousness.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Monday, March 13, 2017 12:57 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

BS Sig - you told T you had no deal with him and threatened him and then personally insulted him throughout the week. Same: I had no "deal" with either Kiki or Jack. -GSTRING
Oh, OK .... you had no deal with KIKI or SIX, so you felt free to be a troll. Got it.





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Monday, March 13, 2017 1:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


G, for god's sake, stop acting like THUGR! Your personal attacks on people here were entirely unprovoked by any sort of personal attack on you. So in response to the age-old question "Who started it?" the answer is: YOU, my friend.

Now, to get back ON TOPIC. If at all possible ... my comment was that one should prepare for the development of an AI "in the wild" just like one should prepare for any sort of prolonged widespread emergency (earthquake, flood, hurricane, solar flare) ... be ready to survive "off the grid" for at least two weeks.

Now, if the AI chooses to launch nuclear weapons across the globe, that's not survivable, but short of that just be prepared to tough it out.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Monday, March 13, 2017 2:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

My posts were in fact ON TOPIC= G
But your personal attacks were not.


G, let's use "automobiles" as a technological extension of walking. Has the introduction of "automobiles" made us more fit, as people, by improving our ability to transport things?

In order to get "better" (fitter, smarter) you need to put in effort. Making things less effortful or more convenient doesn't make us fitter or smarter, it just makes the result faster. Even in my own job, when it's far too easy to look up chemicals online, I can no longer deconstruct an IUPAC name or necessarily remember what an "amide" is without looking it up.

In addition, the incredible amount of people's "screen time" and the focus on virtual communication, narcissism, and consumerism is making us lose all kinds of abilities, like the ability to pay attention to anything for more than a minute, physical capability (brain growth and remodeling is stimulated by physical activity), empathy, and the capacity for independent thought, as well as breeding a whole generation of iPhone addicts.

I can see that there are potentially all kinds of potential benefits to smart phones, and I PERSONALLY feel that I have learned a lot online. But few people go outside of their comfort zone and expose themselves to new or unfamiliar ideas or information, which is part of the learning process. And I can see a lot of downsides as well. I don't have time to post links. Maybe later.

In any case, the topic was AI, not smart phones. I would call what they're looking for Artificial Insight, not Artificial Intelligence. They're hoping that by throwing a lot of data into a machine that is programmed with learning capability, this machine will come up with discoveries that elude us mere limited mortals. There is already a "learning machine" that not only came up with Newton's Law on its own, but also an equation that can fully describe the biochemical state of a cell at any particular moment. The only problem with it is, we don't understand what the equation "means". I see a lot of downsides to that as well.


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Monday, March 13, 2017 2:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


G

Hey G, let me put your error in terms you might understand. Trump has access to all sorts of communication technology, like TV and the inet in general and Twitter. I guess all that access makes him smart.

Quote:

You're not reading it with comprehension - I said knowing those things makes you smarter, as in: you would know how to dress for the weather, which route to drive because of the time, things a thinking person would like to know.
Quote:

smart
smärt/
adjective
1. Having or showing a quick-witted intelligence.

intelligence
noun
1. Intelligence can be defined as a person's cognitive abilities to learn.

Funny thing is, I didn't see anything there about knowing how to dress for the weather, or which route to take. Being smart is about that person's individual brain function - "a person's cognitive abilities to learn". Yanno, and let me repeat, something about that person's individual brain function.

BTW, accessing journal articles and reading them WITH UNDERSTANDING doesn't maker you 'smart', it makes you better informed.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?


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Monday, March 13, 2017 2:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Well, they sure didn't make you any smarter!- GSTRING
Troll.

Quote:

Yanno, you'd think someone who pissed on this forum almost daily with their drunken ramblings for the last 4 years would know enough to stf up and not complain about what others post.- GSTRING

Troll.

Quote:

And Kiki? Sorry - being purposely obtuse or just contrary to be contrary is also a form of trolling.

Troll.

I think GSTRING knows he already lost the argument by being so stupid he doesn't even know what 'smart' means. So he's trying to distract from his abysmal and very public failure with personal attacks




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Monday, March 13, 2017 2:40 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If AI develops anywhere important in the wild .... as opposed to in a lab ... it will be on the internet, with series of self-replicating software which can be mutated as it is replicated.

All of the ingredients of a giant "brain" are there. At first the AI will be unconscious, but studies of anesthesiology say that "awareness" comes from semi-independent processes communicating with each other, and that is possible on the inet.

I'd say: don't depend on the inet for ... well, anything. Not for GPS for ships, planes, trucks and cars; not having your refrigerator send you a text that you've got spoiled food inside; not for coordinating electrical power distribution. Prepare for that as you would prepare for any prolonged disaster.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Now, to get back ON TOPIC. If at all possible ... my comment was that one should prepare for the development of an AI "in the wild" just like one should prepare for any sort of prolonged widespread emergency (earthquake, flood, hurricane, solar flare) ... be ready to survive "off the grid" for at least two weeks.

Now, if the AI chooses to launch nuclear weapons across the globe, that's not survivable, but short of that just be prepared to tough it out.



I don't know that we can predict what a self-learning machine will think; or what it will conclude.

So much of what we think is based on evolutionary imperatives. There's always an evolutionary goal framing our perceptions and thoughts. And, as you pointed out, our brains work by 'good enough' shortcuts (heuristics).

In thinking about AI, and what it might think, I don't know we can imagine something so vastly different from us.

So we have to prepare for what it could do, whether or not it's something it might actually consider. And if anyone thinks cyberwarfare is bad enough today, I can imagine all sorts of havoc, not just with GPS, but with the grid, water treatment plants, all that money stored as bits, telephony, etc. Imagine all modern necessities gone.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Monday, March 13, 2017 2:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Since I can't predict what an AI in the wild would do, I would suggest just preparing for the worst, if such can be prepared for.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Monday, March 13, 2017 4:31 PM

SOCKPUPPET


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Since I can't predict what an AI in the wild would do, I would suggest just preparing for the worst, if such can be prepared for.




It would fire at everything and miss.

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Monday, March 13, 2017 4:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


G

Hey G, let me put your error in terms you might understand. Trump has access to all sorts of communication technology, like TV and the inet in general and Twitter. I guess all that access makes him smart.

Quote:

You're not reading it with comprehension - I said knowing those things makes you smarter, as in: you would know how to dress for the weather, which route to drive because of the time, things a thinking person would like to know.
Quote:

smart
smärt/
adjective
1. Having or showing a quick-witted intelligence.

intelligence
noun
1. Intelligence can be defined as a person's cognitive abilities to learn.

Funny thing is, I didn't see anything there about knowing how to dress for the weather, or which route to take. Being smart is about that person's individual brain function - "a person's cognitive abilities to learn". Yanno, and let me repeat, something about that person's individual brain function.

BTW, accessing journal articles and reading them WITH UNDERSTANDING doesn't maker you 'smart', it makes you better informed.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?



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Monday, March 13, 2017 6:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

G, let's use "automobiles" as a technological extension of walking. Has the introduction of "automobiles" made us more fit, as people, by improving our ability to transport things?- SIGNY

Totally broken logic. Cars were not designed to make us more fit. Do cars allow us to travel more distances and get more things done? Yes. Smart phones are designed to make us smarter (the clue is in the name).-G

No. phones were NOT designed to "make us smart", it's the PHONE that's smart, in the "smart phone" name, not the person. I would classify this point as "grasping at straws".

Similarly, computers were also NOT designed to make us "smart" either.

Quote:

In order to get "better" (fitter, smarter) you need to put in effort. Making things less effortful or more convenient doesn't make us fitter or smarter, it just makes the result faster. Even in my own job, when it's far too easy to look up chemicals online, I can no longer deconstruct an IUPAC name or necessarily remember what an "amide" is without looking it up. SIGNY

You're just getting older, that's your memory waving good bye. I agree about effort. Can't make people think harder if they don't want to - that was my point to you and Kiki. If you hold onto prejudices, as many of your contemporaries who were born way before the advent of smart phones do, then you will not fully understand their scope. I thought that paper link I posted was a perfect illustration of advances in the use of smart phones. Did you read it?- G

Not entirely. You posted several links, so if you re-post the link I can focus on it.

Quote:

In addition, the incredible amount of people's "screen time" and the focus on virtual communication, narcissism, and consumerism is making us lose all kinds of abilities, like the ability to pay attention to anything for more than a minute, physical capability (brain growth and remodeling is stimulated by physical activity), empathy, and the capacity for independent thought, as well as breeding a whole generation of iPhone addicts.- SIGNY

Again, bad logic. Screen time does stimulate brain growth. It may be for trivial things, but thing of what the user would be doing otherwise - staring out a window? Being bored out of their minds? It's also true that video games are used for training - they are used to quicken thought reflexes.-G

Training thought reflexes? What does THAT mean? Quickening automatic responses to a specific stimulus? Is that "intelligence"?

Quote:

I can see that there are potentially all kinds of potential benefits to smart phones, and I PERSONALLY feel that I have learned a lot online. But few people go outside of their comfort zone and expose themselves to new or unfamiliar ideas or information, which is part of the learning process. And I can see a lot of downsides as well. I don't have time to post links. Maybe later SIGNY

That's just your negative, unfounded assumption talking again. You can't let go of your prejudices can you? Here's a nugget: "as of June 2016 Android users were able to choose between 2.2 million apps. Apple's App Store remained the second-largest app store with 2 million available apps."

Ask yourself who is writing those and who is using them? They're not all games btw - I'm guessing that's what you think. Just look how many language apps there are. People are getting smarter from their smart phones.-G



No, I think that is YOUR prejudice talking. I don't think that they're all games. What I see is that people seem to be spending an inordinate amount of time on FB and Snapchat and Instagram.

Also, people evolved to by physically - not virtually - engaged in their world. Kids who grow up with a lot of "screen time" don't know how to do a lot of basic things, like use their bodies or "learn by doing".

You know, I think we're getting back to the issue of "What is intelligence?" I don't think we ever got to the end of that question.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:09 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Disagree - again, you are thinking of the negative space. Arriving at information sooner, faster, allows you to conclude, prove or disprove something sooner. Make your proofs sooner, build that foundation of knowledge on which you build the next discovery, sooner, faster. That leads to smarter to me.



I think you're confusing "smarter" with "more efficient".

Being able to do all of that sooner makes you more efficient.

If we were to lose power to the grid or the cell phone towers, where does all of that intelligence go? Was it ever there in the first place?

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Saturday, April 8, 2017 9:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news/2017/04/researchers-enlist-ai-
generate-music-boost-creativity



Researchers Enlist AI to Generate Music, Boost Creativity





Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Monday, April 17, 2017 9:50 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news/2017/04/policymakers-strugglin
g-predict-how-ai-will-affect-future-workplace



Policymakers Struggling to Predict How AI Will Affect Future Workplace



Will a robot take away my job? Many people ask that question, yet policymakers don't have the kind of information they need to answer it intelligently, say the authors of a new study from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine (NASEM).

"Policymakers are flying blind into what has been called the fourth industrial revolution," said Tom M. Mitchell, the E. Fredkin University Professor in the Carnegie Mellon University School of Computer Science, and Erik Brynjolfsson, the Schussel Family Professor in the MIT Sloan School of Management, co-chairs of the NASEM study.

Government agencies need to collect different kinds of labor data to accurately assess and predict how computer and robotic technologies will affect the workplace, Mitchell and Brynjolfsson said. Failure to do so could, at best, result in missed opportunities; at worst, it could be disastrous.

The study, "Information Technology and the U.S. Workforce: Where Are We and Where Do We Go From Here," and a related commentary by Mitchell and Brynjolfsson was published today by the journal Nature.

Information technology, artificial intelligence and robotics will affect almost all occupations, but how that will occur for each is unclear. Many people will be displaced by technology, while the demand for other jobs will increase. New industries will be born and other as-yet-unimagined jobs will be created.

These future effects likely will be larger than have already been seen, the NASEM report says, but it's hard to say definitively if technology will expand or shrink the workforce.

"There is a dramatic shortage of information and data about the exact state of the workforce and automation, so policymakers don't know answers to even basic questions such as 'Which types of technologies are currently having the greatest impacts on jobs?' and 'What new technologies are likely to have the greatest impact in the next few years?'" Mitchell said.

"Our NASEM study report details a number of both positive and negative influences technology has had on the workforce," Mitchell said. "These include replacing some jobs by automation, creating the opportunity for new types of freelance work in companies like Uber and Lyft, and making education and retraining courses available to everyone through the internet. But nobody can judge today the relative impact these different forces have made on the workforce, or their net outcome."

More research is needed to better understand these different influences of technology on the workforce, and how they will add up. Automation is better than humans at some tasks, but not all. Routine information-processing and manual tasks are readily automated, for instance, but people remain more creative and adaptable, and have better interpersonal skills. Some occupations may be reorganized accordingly and some skills that today aren't recognized or directly compensated may grow in value.

The NASEM panel recommended that to prepare students for a constantly changing workforce, schools should focus attention on those uniquely human characteristics that could differentiate people from machines in the workplace, and emphasize training in fields expected to drive the future economy.

The panel said new data sources, methods and infrastructures are necessary to support this research. In their Nature commentary, Mitchell and Brynjolfsson go further, calling for the government to create an integrated information strategy to combine public and privately held data.

"Governments must learn the lessons that industry has learned over the past decade, about how to take advantage of the exploding volume of online, real-time data to design more attractive products and more effective management policies," Mitchell said.

Similarly, he and Brynjolfsson argue, governments must shift from the current "plan then implement" paradigm for making policy, to a more iterative "sense and respond" paradigm that monitors the impacts of new policies, measures their effectiveness and adapts to optimize those policies based on their observed impacts.


Here's a link to the study that was mentioned, but it's behind a paywall:

https://www.nap.edu/catalog/24649/information-technology-and-the-us-wo
rkforce-where-are-we-and





Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Monday, April 17, 2017 10:14 PM

6STRINGJOKER


One thing is for sure. At one point there is going to have to be a discussion about it. It would be one thing if you could just opt out completely if you wanted to, but that isn't going to be possible forever.

The question that is going to be needed to ask at some point is this. "We CAN do it, but SHOULD we do it?"

There is nothing that can't be done, eventually. I really believe that. NOTHING is impossible. Every single thing, even all the magic in the Harry Potter movies will be possible one day through science assuming we live long enough to get there.


I don't know how we reach the answer to the Should Question. We can't just ignore it anymore though.

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Tuesday, May 15, 2018 12:26 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


“The way to win in Silicon Valley now is by figuring out how to capture human attention. How do you manipulate people’s deepest psychological instincts, so you can get them to come back?” said Tristan Harris, a former design ethicist at Google ...

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-12/search-engine-most-powerful-
source-mind-control-ever-invented


Google CEO Sundar Pichai caused a worldwide sensation earlier this week when he unveiled Duplex, an AI-driven digital assistant able to mimic human speech patterns (complete with vocal tics) to such a convincing degree that it managed to have real conversations with ordinary people without them realizing they were actually talking to a robot.

While Google presented Duplex as an exciting technological breakthrough, others saw something else: a system able to deceive people into believing they were talking to a human being, an ethical red flag (and a surefire way to get to robocall hell). Following the backlash, Google announced on Thursday that the new service will be designed “with disclosure built-in.” Nevertheless, the episode created the impression that ethical concerns were an “after-the-fact consideration” for Google, despite the fierce public scrutiny it and other tech giants faced over the past two months. “Silicon Valley is ethically lost, rudderless and has not learned a thing,” tweeted Zeynep Tufekci, a professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a prominent critic of tech firms.




SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Friday, May 18, 2018 11:56 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

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lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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