REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Where are the democrats? Waiting for the Deep State to get rid of Trump?

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Monday, April 23, 2018 00:34
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Sunday, December 3, 2017 9:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I keep looking for the party to rise up and become a real opposition party. Where'd it go?


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Monday, December 4, 2017 7:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I keep looking for the party to rise up and become a real opposition party. Where'd it go?



Yes, the DNC is waiting for the deep state to get rid of Trump. Assuming that they DO get rid of him, they'll be back at their globalization agenda: more trade agreements, more immigration, more war.

Yep, that'll fix things!

[/snicker]


And I see GSTRING, their useful idiot, is thumping that agenda.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, December 4, 2017 7:54 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I keep looking for the party to rise up and become a real opposition party. Where'd it go?



Yes, the DNC is waiting for the deep state to get rid of Trump. Assuming that they DO get rid of him, they'll be back at their globalization agenda: more trade agreements, more immigration, more war.

Yep, that'll fix things!

[/snicker]


And I see GSTRING, their useful idiot, is thumping that agenda.

Trump will leave when 67 Senators vote him out. Since there are 52 GOP Senators, that won't happen. You can see how those 52 GOP Senators can work their will on the President and the country with their tax bill, which passed at 2 AM this past Saturday. It wasn't the Deep State that voted, 1kiki and Signym. Texas Senator John Cornyn said, “This is not a bill that is designed primarily to benefit the wealthy and the large businesses”; that was a lie. Senator Bob Corker said he wouldn’t support a plan “adding one penny to the deficit”; that was a lie. John McCain — who has delivered sanctimonious lectures on the importance of “regular order” in the Senate — declared his support for the GOP tax bill rushed to the floor without holding any hearings or soliciting expert testimony (and tax policy is an area where you really, really need to hear from experts, lawyers and accountants even more than economists). This whole process involves a level of bad faith we haven’t seen in U.S. politics since the days when defenders of slavery physically assaulted their political foes on the Senate floor.

As long as 52 GOP Senators protect him because he will sign their laws, Trump is safe from the Democrats and the imaginary "Deep State".

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, December 4, 2017 8:01 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND: Another neocon-in-liberal-drag.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, December 4, 2017 8:15 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


There would be a lot of unhappy people if Trump was "voted out" by congress. I doubt that even if Democrats had a majority that would happen, and I'm sure it would not be nearly as simple as you make it sound if the ball were to begin rolling on that. If it was, this would not be the first time in my life that it would be attempted. Bill Clinton's impeachment doesn't count, unless as an example of how it's not as simple as you make it sound since he finished his term even after being impeached and lying under oath.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, December 4, 2017 8:21 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND: Another neocon-in-liberal-drag, pretending that there's no deep state.

Your imaginary "Deep State" (with an agenda that is less solid than a cloth bag filled with air) is completely powerless against the will of 52 very real GOP Senators with their heavy-weight agenda. So long as those GOP Senators want Trump, Trump stays in power.

“People will just believe you. You just tell them and they believe you.” -- Donald J Trump.
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/12/quote-of-the-day-you-just-tell-
them-and-they-believe-you
/

Without confirming data, I am the 1% that never believes Trump, Signym, 1kiki and Republicans, either voters or GOP politicians. That cynical rule of thumb has always worked very profitably for me. It is a rule that never fails to be a quick and easy way to handle a great volume of false claims.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, December 4, 2017 9:44 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


You gotta love how the "elite" like Second get the best of both worlds. They can virtue signal all day and complain about the way things are, but then never fail to rub everyone's nose in the fact that they're rich beyond belief at every opportunity. Wow... The 1% are just so much better than the rest of us, huh?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, December 4, 2017 3:17 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Kiki gearing up for "reluctantly" voting Republican in 2018.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Sunday, December 10, 2017 7:35 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Nope. I voted against Hillary and will continue to vote against neo-cons. But thanks for lying. As usual.
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Kiki gearing up for "reluctantly" voting Republican in 2018.

Hey, not hearing much about Syria lately. How'd that work out for you?




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, December 10, 2017 8:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Without confirming data, I am the 1% that never believes
Well, there's your problem right there. You "believe/disbelieve" things, and you have no data. That's quite a mental aberration you there, SECOND.

But, where ARE the Democrats?

Yanno, if they came forward with an agenda ... something that involves NOT stabbing ordinary Americans in the back and does NOT involve globalism .... I'd be happy to vote for them again.

What do you think, SECOND? Are Dems going to start representing those average Americans that you (and they) claim to care so much about? OR are they going to continue flogging fake issues, jonesing for war, and collecting up beaucoups bucks and lining their pockets with their foreign and neocon donations?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, December 10, 2017 7:50 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

kiki: Nope. I voted against Hillary

Lol, I don't think that surprises anyone here. I always guessed you went for Jill Stein. But come 2018 I don't think you'll be taking any chances; I think you'll be GOP all the way. At least, I'll be disappointed if you're not.

Quote:

Hey, not hearing much about Syria lately. How'd that work out for you?

Like this:

'Facing disaster': children starve in siege of Syria's former breadbasket
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/24/syria-eastern-ghouta-sie
ge-talks?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Besieged Syrians eating trash, fainting from hunger: U.N. survey
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-hunger/besiege
d-syrians-eating-trash-fainting-from-hunger-u-n-survey-idUSKBN1DM2IP


Your hero Assad has taken a break from gassing men, women and children and is now simply starving them, entire towns at a time. So are you going to do a victory dance about this, or what?

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Sunday, December 10, 2017 8:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
'Facing disaster': children starve in siege of Syria's former breadbasket
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/24/syria-eastern-ghouta-sie
ge-talks?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Quote:

On Thursday, the main Syrian opposition group, meeting in the Saudi capital, Riyadh, said it continued to reject any role for Assad at the start of a UN-sponsored interim period leading to a political transition.
Because the US would rather see people starve than stop supporting the 'rebels' (ISIS). The US has decided that an elected government needs to be deposed. "Assad must go" at all costs.
Quote:

Your hero Assad
THANKS! for proving yourself to be a troll! AGAIN.

But to state this clearly, and highlight it unmistakably, so I can quote it later on when you me troll again with the same lie -
I don't care about Assad one way or the other. He is neither my hero, nor my enemy.

He's the legitimately elected head of government the US decided to depose.

And he's on the list of many heads of state the US deposed: Hussein, Yanukovych, Gaddafi, Zelaya, and Préval, leaving those countries with thousands dead, and hundreds of thousands refugees, in clusterfucks of extremism and corruption.

I reject the notion the US had any legitimate self-defense or other legitimate interest in those coups, soft or otherwise. I reject the notion that the US has some 'right' to involve itself in other country's internal affairs. And I hold the US to blame for the death, destruction, violence, and poverty we caused by our actions.

And THANKS for the opportunity to state my position. You can be sure I'll hang it around your neck when you troll me again.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, December 10, 2017 8:53 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

But to state this clearly

Actions speak louder than words, kiki. If you want to be seen as something other than an Assad apologist and fangirl, why don't you stop cheerleading and PR campaigning for him? For example, you say, "I don't care about him", but then in your very next line you call him the "legitimately elected head of government" of Syria. This is a mass murdering, mass torturing, war criminal dictator (part of a dynasty that has run the country for decades) who violently suppressed a peaceful uprising to unseat him. He's "legitimately elected" according to his own propaganda, and Russian propaganda - and no one else. Exercise some critical thinking before you regurgitate his propaganda here.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Sunday, December 10, 2017 9:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Actions speak louder than words, KRAPPO. If you want to be seen as something other than a n Assad apologist liar and fangirl troll, why don't you stop? For example
why don't you post links to back up your claims about Assad? Was he not elected? "... an international delegation from more than 30 countries including Bolivia, Brazil, Cuba, Ecuador, India, Iran, Iraq, Nicaragua, Russia, South Africa and Venezuela.[23] [24] [25] issued a statement claiming the election was "free, fair and transparent" And Assad is STILL recognized as the leader of Syria by the UN. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-crisis-un-re
solution-leaves-president-bashar-al-assads-future-unclear-a6780121.html


MEANWHILE, to state this clearly, and highlight it unmistakably, so I can quote it later on when you me troll again with the same lie -
I don't care about Assad one way or the other. He is neither my hero, nor my enemy.

He's the legitimately elected head of government the US decided to depose.

And he's on the list of many heads of state the US deposed: Hussein, Yanukovych, Gaddafi, Zelaya, and Préval, leaving those countries with thousands dead, and hundreds of thousands refugees, in clusterfucks of extremism and corruption.

I reject the notion the US had any legitimate self-defense or other legitimate interest in those coups, soft or otherwise. I reject the notion that the US has some 'right' to involve itself in other country's internal affairs. And I hold the US to blame for the death, destruction, violence, and poverty we caused by our actions.
(formatted so that you can't say you somehow 'missed' this part of my post.)

And THANKS for the opportunity to state my position. You can be sure I'll hang it around your neck when you troll me again.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, December 10, 2017 11:15 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I don't care about Assad one way or the other. He is neither my hero, nor my enemy.

He's the legitimately elected head of government the US decided to depose.

And he's on the list of many heads of state the US deposed: Hussein, Yanukovych, Gaddafi, Zelaya, and Préval, leaving those countries with thousands dead, and hundreds of thousands refugees, in clusterfucks of extremism and corruption.

I reject the notion the US had any legitimate self-defense or other legitimate interest in those coups, soft or otherwise. I reject the notion that the US has some 'right' to involve itself in other country's internal affairs. And I hold the US to blame for the death, destruction, violence, and poverty we caused by our actions.



This is a stance I agree with 100%, and have ever since I got involved at all with politics. It holds just as true with me today as it did when I was slamming GWB all those years ago.

The funny thing is, the Left no longer had my back and seemed to have no problem when it continued unabated for 8 years under the Obama administration. So lost in the marvelous hope and wonderful change we were all a part of.


Somewhere in the last 8 years the sides were switched, and hardly anybody even noticed where the new lines were drawn.




I don't agree with Kiki on a lot of things, but at least she's one of the few who remain consistent and don't immediately flip-flop on a position because their "side" is doing it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, December 11, 2017 12:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

If you want to be seen as something other than an Assad apologist and fangirl, why don't you stop cheerleading and PR campaigning for him? For example, you say, "I don't care about him", but then in your very next line you call him the "legitimately elected head of government" of Syria.
Since when is stating a universally-recognized FACT "cheerleading"??

Only in KRAPO's twisted world!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, December 11, 2017 12:23 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I don't care about Assad one way or the other. He is neither my hero, nor my enemy.

He's the legitimately elected head of government the US decided to depose.

And he's on the list of many heads of state the US deposed: Hussein, Yanukovych, Gaddafi, Zelaya, and Préval, leaving those countries with thousands dead, and hundreds of thousands refugees, in clusterfucks of extremism and corruption.

I reject the notion the US had any legitimate self-defense or other legitimate interest in those coups, soft or otherwise. I reject the notion that the US has some 'right' to involve itself in other country's internal affairs. And I hold the US to blame for the death, destruction, violence, and poverty we caused by our actions.- KIKI

This is a stance I agree with 100%, and have ever since I got involved at all with politics. It holds just as true with me today as it did when I was slamming GWB all those years ago.

The funny thing is, the Left no longer had my back and seemed to have no problem when it continued unabated for 8 years under the Obama administration. So lost in the marvelous hope and wonderful change we were all a part of.

Somewhere in the last 8 years the sides were switched brains were washed, and hardly anybody even noticed where the new lines were drawn.

I don't agree with Kiki on a lot of things, but at least she's one of the few who remain consistent and don't immediately flip-flop on a position because their "side" is doing it.

Amen, amen, and amen!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, December 11, 2017 2:07 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"... an international delegation from more than 30 countries including Bolivia, Brazil, Cuba, Ecuador, India, Iran, Iraq, Nicaragua, Russia, South Africa and Venezuela.[23] [24] [25] issued a statement claiming the election was "free, fair and transparent" And Assad is STILL recognized as the leader of Syria by the UN. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-crisis-un-re
solution-leaves-president-bashar-al-assads-future-unclear-a6780121.html



Lol, classic kiki, posting a false link to back up her claim. Your quote is actually from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_presidential_election,_2014

The preceding sentence: "Attempts to hold an election under the circumstances of an ongoing civil war were criticized by UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon,[21] and it was widely reported that the elections lacked independent election monitoring. [22]"

From the Washington Post article cited by YOUR Wiki article:

"There are no serious opposition contenders or independent monitors, and voting did not take place in the many war-ravaged parts of the country that are under rebel control."

This is the "legitimate" election you were talking about?

Quote:

an international delegation from more than 30 countries including Bolivia, Brazil, Cuba, Ecuador, India, Iran, Iraq, Nicaragua, Russia, South Africa and Venezuela.

"Democracy" observers from Iran, Venezuela and Russia?? Come on, kiki! Critical thinking!
Quote:

And THANKS for the opportunity to state my position.


Blah blah blah, America is the great Satan. Who cares? Why should anyone listen to you when you're an apologist for a dictator who starves children?

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Monday, December 11, 2017 4:54 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I keep looking for the party to rise up and become a real opposition party. Where'd it go?




How are you this blind ? The entire ' collusion ' investigation is a complete farce, based on Hillary's bought and paid for FAKE Russian hooker report. This is the " evidence " which set the investigative wheels in motion, and from where all the FISA warrants were sprung. Fruit of the poison tree dictates that this sham of a kabuki theatre witch hunt come to an abrupt end, if we're going go to by the rule of law. Yet deep staters carry on as if it's a real thing.

It isn't.

' Rise up ' ??? Hell, why not attempt actual real issues and running some real life candidates, for a change.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, December 11, 2017 5:40 PM

THGRRI


Morons, god I'm surrounded by stupids.


T

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Tuesday, December 12, 2017 10:47 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


There are very serious allegations that have been made against Trump. And Trump has made the equally serious countercharge that he is the victim of a vast conspiracy of lies aimed at bringing him down. Whichever story is true, it’s a huge deal. And rather than leaving it as a mystery, Congress ought to use its considerable investigative powers to try to get to the bottom of it.

Congressional hearings could advance the story considerably.

Just a few weeks before Election Day 2016, Trump was threatening to sue his accusers for libel. After all, Trump said it was all lies and he would prove that in court after the election.

Of course, in reality Trump hasn’t sued anyone. And the simplest, most basic way a congressional inquiry could advance the story would be by inviting the 16 women who made charges against Trump during the campaign to tell their stories on the record, under oath. Sworn testimony of that sort won’t prove a case in criminal court, but it certainly counts as an important form of evidence, and neither Congress nor the public needs to hold itself to that high standard. And beyond victim testimony, Congress’s investigative powers could accomplish many things that journalism alone cannot.

Congress can compel informative testimony.

In appearances on Howard Stern’s radio show, Trump has openly bragged that one of the benefits of owning a set of beauty pageants was his ability to go strolling through dressing rooms to check out naked models.

This habit extended to the Miss Teen USA pageant, which featured contestants between the ages of 15 and 19. The reporters were not, however, able to get every contestant who was there to speak to them. Nor do they appear have succeeded in getting other people who worked for Trump at the pageant to talk. That’s not surprising in light of the stringent nondisclosure agreements (NDAs) that Trump routinely imposes on his staff.

Unlike journalists, congressional committees can issue subpoenas and compel people to talk, NDAs be damned.

Perhaps more importantly, Congress is uniquely situated to clarify the potential illegality of NDAs that purport to prevent current and former employees from discussing misconduct, and to alter federal law, if necessary, to allow people who’ve worked for Trump in the past to answer questions honestly.

And of course a proper investigation would give Trump a chance to clear his name in a way that dueling media accounts never can.

No surprise, Trump immediately responded:
Quote:

Trump attacks female senator and claims allegations are Democratic conspiracy
Trump sends ‘ugly and suggestive’ tweet about senator Kirsten Gillibrand

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/12/trump-sexual-misconduct-women-
democrats

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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 2:48 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Yeah, the DEEP STATE is gonna get DEEP in that ASS!


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I keep looking for the party to rise up and become a real opposition party. Where'd it go?



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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 3:12 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Well said Second. And here I was about to send off a letter to the "brave" John McCain for his "corageous" vote on Obama repeal, then he goes and spoils it all by bypassing "regular order" and thiefing this scumbag bill.

Yes, I said it - Scumbag Bill, since only theives come during the dark of night to rob and steal. Why even Susan Collins has thrown in with this lot. And here I thought she had a crumb of decency in her soul. Turns out, there is none....soul that is.

All indications point to the Tax Bill passing. In short time, the GOP, or more ironically, the Dems, will need to address the monumental deficit that will come from this bill. Oh, I almost forgot...this will be the gift that keeps on giving....the cut to the rich will be permanent. In all my years following politics, I've never heard of a permanent law, especially in taxes. WE ARE FUCKED, thanks to the grand dictator.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I keep looking for the party to rise up and become a real opposition party. Where'd it go?



Yes, the DNC is waiting for the deep state to get rid of Trump. Assuming that they DO get rid of him, they'll be back at their globalization agenda: more trade agreements, more immigration, more war.

Yep, that'll fix things!

[/snicker]


And I see GSTRING, their useful idiot, is thumping that agenda.

Trump will leave when 67 Senators vote him out. Since there are 52 GOP Senators, that won't happen. You can see how those 52 GOP Senators can work their will on the President and the country with their tax bill, which passed at 2 AM this past Saturday. It wasn't the Deep State that voted, 1kiki and Signym. Texas Senator John Cornyn said, “This is not a bill that is designed primarily to benefit the wealthy and the large businesses”; that was a lie. Senator Bob Corker said he wouldn’t support a plan “adding one penny to the deficit”; that was a lie. John McCain — who has delivered sanctimonious lectures on the importance of “regular order” in the Senate — declared his support for the GOP tax bill rushed to the floor without holding any hearings or soliciting expert testimony (and tax policy is an area where you really, really need to hear from experts, lawyers and accountants even more than economists). This whole process involves a level of bad faith we haven’t seen in U.S. politics since the days when defenders of slavery physically assaulted their political foes on the Senate floor.

As long as 52 GOP Senators protect him because he will sign their laws, Trump is safe from the Democrats and the imaginary "Deep State".

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 3:19 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Oh and the Tax Bill is a wonderful piece of legislation that the Repubs are shoving up everyone's ass without so much as a how-do-you-do?

Now, I'll buy that for a dollar!


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Without confirming data, I am the 1% that never believes
Well, there's your problem right there. You "believe/disbelieve" things, and you have no data. That's quite a mental aberration you there, SECOND.

But, where ARE the Democrats?

Yanno, if they came forward with an agenda ... something that involves NOT stabbing ordinary Americans in the back and does NOT involve globalism .... I'd be happy to vote for them again.

What do you think, SECOND? Are Dems going to start representing those average Americans that you (and they) claim to care so much about? OR are they going to continue flogging fake issues, jonesing for war, and collecting up beaucoups bucks and lining their pockets with their foreign and neocon donations?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 6:42 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Senate Democrats were completely opposed. Without V.P. Mike Pence, this would never have passed:

Religious conservatives embrace Cruz tax break for private schools

One Senate foe calls proposal 'a backdoor assault on the public K-12 education system'

By Kevin Diaz December 18, 2017
www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Tax-break-for-private-school-tu
ition-included-in-12440027.php


With the Republican-led Congress ambling toward final passage this week of major tax reform decried by Democrats, U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas already has begun campaigning on a school choice provision giving tax breaks to families that home-school or send their children to private or religious schools.

In recent weeks since the Texas Republican narrowly secured his "Student Opportunity Amendment" in the GOP tax bill – with an assist from Vice President Mike Pence, who cast the tie-breaking vote – Cruz's 2018 Senate campaign has been heralding the measure to a key Texas constituency: Religious conservatives.

In a soaring campaign-style video and a series of email testimonials, Cruz and his backers have described the measure as a turning point in the conservative struggle to allow public funds to open the doors of private schools.

In an email to supporters last week – the latest of at least four this month – the Cruz campaign highlighted a recent opinion piece by Drew White, a senior policy analyst for the conservative Texas Public Policy Foundation, calling the Cruz measure a "game changer."

The amendment would allow $10,000 per child to be taken from tax-privileged 529 savings plans each year. In a significant policy win for Cruz as he heads into an election year, it was included in Friday's joint House-Senate conference bill, now headed for final passage this week.

According to Congress' Joint Committee on Taxation, it would cost the Treasury about $500 million over 10 years, representing a major win for conservative advocates of school choice, which Cruz has called "the civil rights issue of our time."

Many Democrats and some Republicans have opposed the tax benefit as a sop to affluent families that can afford to send their children to private schools. But the issue has received far less debate than the partisan battle over the GOP's $1.5 trillion tax cut package, which affects almost all U.S. households, though it confers most of its direct benefits on corporations and the well-to-do.

While the education measure has attracted little notice outside of conservative media, it has been a top agenda item for Christian conservatives and others in the movement to boost charter and private schools as an alternative to public education.

"Such an idea has been a long time in the making and a cornerstone of the conservative education policy vision," White said.

Among those backing the change is President Donald Trump's Education Secretary, Betsy DeVos, who called the measure a "step forward" in the push to provide tax savings to families who put their children in private or religious schools.

Cruz's amendment would expand popular 529 college savings plans to include K-12 elementary and secondary tuition, including educational expenses for home-schooled children. Much like Roth IRAs, the 529 plans use after-tax contributions to accumulate and grow tax free.

Currently, more than three-quarters of families using 529 savings plans make less than $150,000, a fact Cruz points to in describing the benefit as a boon for the middle class.

"Expanding 529's ensures that each child receives an education that meets their individual needs, instead of being forced into a one-size-fits-all approach to education, or limited to their zip code," Cruz said in a floor speech introducing the measure.

Opponents say it would do little for low-income families with little in savings or practical choice about where their children go to school. Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon, argued against Cruz's provision, saying it amounts to a subsidy for upper-income households at the expense of public schools.

"This is nothing less than a backdoor assault on the public K-12 education system," Wyden said during a Senate debate on Cruz's amendment. "The real goal seems to be to take more and more children from the public schools and put them into private schools and shrink the funds that would be available to the public schools that give all of America's children the chance to get ahead."

The vote to include Cruz's amendment on the Senate floor earlier this month divided the Senate 50-50, with Republicans Lisa Murkowksi of Alaska and Susan Collins of Maine joining all Democrats in opposition. In one of the more dramatic moments of the months-long tax debate, the tie forced Pence to rush into the chamber to cast the deciding vote in a late-night session to finalize the Senate version of the GOP tax bill.

Cruz's amendment would prove to be the only one outside of the GOP leadership to be added on the Senate floor.

The House version of the legislation contained a stronger measure that was left out of the final Senate-House agreement. It would have permitted parents to open 529 accounts for unborn children. Pro-abortion rights advocates such as Planned Parenthood balked on the grounds that it could become a way of restricting abortion through the tax code.

'Pro-family initiative'

Even in its milder Senate form, conservatives have rallied around the Cruz amendment, which is now part of a sweeping rewrite of the U.S. tax code, the first in more than 30 years. Cruz backers argue that it provides a measure of fairness to families who take their children out of public school systems they're forced to support through their property taxes.

The Cruz campaign recently distributed an opinion piece by influential conservative commentator Erick Erickson, who praised Cruz for angering liberals.

"It is actually really funny to see a bunch of liberals who think the GOP is hurting poor people with tax reform spitting mad this morning now that they realize what Senator Ted Cruz has done," Erickson wrote. "Yes, the left is mad that Ted Cruz got a pro-family initiative put into tax reform."

But while conservatives have cast it as an issue of family values and universal choice, opponents of the measure say it would deepen class inequality in education.

The Not One Penny campaign, which has fought the entire GOP tax bill, cited a recent paper by Harvard University's Richard Murnane and Stanford University's Sean Reardon showing that enrollment in private schools has remained stable for the past half-century while middle class students increasingly rely on public schools.

The study also found that between 1972 and 2010, wealthier parents spent increasingly on the education of children under 6. The gap between their spending and those of poorer families has increased four-fold since 1972, and has appeared to widen since 2010.

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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 7:00 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


As a reminder, no Democrats voted for the Republican tax bills.

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/12/ceos-are-already-spending-their
-tax-cut-on-the-rich
/

Corporate CEOs have already made it plain that a tax cut won’t prompt them to hire more or invest more. They already have lots of money, and if they wanted to expand they’d have already done it. Instead, the tax cut will go toward increased dividends and bigger stock buybacks, which mostly benefit wealthy shareholders.

In fact, according to Senate Democrats, they’re already making good on this promise. Over the past three years, stock buybacks have been pretty steady at a rate of roughly $1-2 billion per day. But ever since the Senate passed the tax bill, making its final enactment almost certain, stock buybacks have skyrocketed:

This does exactly nothing to help the economy or employ more workers. But it does make the rich even richer, and isn’t that the whole point?

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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 7:27 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The controversial, last-minute tax provision that personally benefits Donald Trump. Every Congressional Democrat was opposed, but to no avail.

Republicans keep saying their tax bill helps job creators. This kickback to real estate investors does the opposite.

Controversy has grown over a last-minute addition to Republicans’ tax bill that gives real estate owners like President Donald Trump — and perhaps Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN), who suddenly came around to supporting the bill on Friday — a major tax break.

The provision essentially extends a new tax break for “pass-through” businesses, like partnerships and LLCs, to real estate investors — personally benefiting some lawmakers and exacerbating the already favorable rates for the wealthy in the bill.

Several news reports raised questions about Corker’s sudden support for the tax bill over the weekend, pointing out that the Tennessee Republican owns a lot of commercial real estate and would likely benefit personally from the tax break. Majority Whip Sen. John Cornyn only heightened the skepticism after saying the provision was added in an effort to “cobble together the votes we needed to get this bill passed.”

But while the provision quickly became dubbed the “Corker kickback,” Corker has vehemently denied it was what won him over . . .

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/18/16778658/pass-through-real-
estate-tax-bill

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 10:42 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


take this clip with a pinch of salt because it is a Ruskie station, former USSR commie but I find Ron Paul interesting as people both Democrat and Republican start banging war drums


Ron Paul, Russia Today has former presidential Candidate

'Assad had no reason to launch chem attack, unlike those who want US involvement' – Ron Paul



Ron Paul is a non-interventionist Libertarian, ran a presidential campaign, 2008. Refusal to endorse the Republican nominee

At a September 10, 2008, press conference, Paul announced his general support of four third-party candidates: Cynthia McKinney (Green Party); Bob Barr (Libertarian Party); Chuck Baldwin (Constitution Party); and Ralph Nader (independent). He said that each of them had pledged to adhere to a policy of balancing budgets, bringing the troops home, defending privacy and personal liberties, and investigating the Federal Reserve. Paul also said that under no circumstances would he be endorsing either of the two main parties' candidates (McCain – Republican Party, or Obama – Democratic Party) because there were no real differences between them, and because neither of them, if elected, would seek to make the fundamental changes in governance that were necessary.

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Friday, April 13, 2018 12:37 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


current wiki reference was re-written from the original quote to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_presidential_election,_2014#Elect
ion_observers
"an international delegation did observe the election. It was reported to have included representatives from more than 30 countries including Brazil,[24] India,[49] Iran,[23][24] Russia,[23][24] Uganda,[24] the US,[50] and Venezuela.[24] Other delegates expected to join were from China, South Africa, Cuba, Nicaragua, Bolivia, Ecuador and Canada.[49] Among the delegates were Iran's Alaeddin Boroujerdi,[23] Alexey Alexandrov of Russia's ruling United Russia,[23] William Fariñas of Venezuela's ruling United Socialist Party of Venezuela,[51] Benna Namugwanya Bugembe of Uganda's ruling National Resistance Movement[24] Socorro Gomes of the Communist World Peace Council,[51] blogger Jane Stillwater,[50] Judy Bello and Scott Williams of the Workers World Party,[50] Paul Larudee[50] Joe Iosbaker of Freedom Road Socialist Organization/FightBack![50] and Indian and US anti-Zionist activists Feroze Mithiborwala.[49] and Paul Larudee.[50]"

The original quote is no longer available.


In any case, my post still stands, krappo's usual lies notwithstanding. My link was NOT to the quote I posted (anyone can put a quoted phrase in google and track back the source - unless krappo wants us all to believe he's too stupid to manage). My link was to my second sentence immediately before it "And Assad is STILL recognized as the leader of Syria by the UN." But maybe krappo really IS too stupid to figure that out.

Naw.


He's just a chronic liar.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Friday, April 13, 2018 1:18 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
My link was NOT to the quote I posted


no shit

Quote:


(anyone can put a quoted phrase in google and track back the source


Duh, how do you think I found out what the actual source of the quote was? But more to the point, why should we have to? Why wouldn't you give a link for a direct quote? And then post a link that looks like it's for the quote but is actually for something else? It wouldn't be because your source was Wikipedia, would it? And because you were quoting Wikipedia selectively - omitting sentences that contradicted your point?

Quote:

In any case, my post still stands

Ha. And what point is that?

Quote:

He's just a chronic liar.

There's something very Trumpian about being caught lying and then calling the person who caught you a liar. I can see why you like him so much.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Saturday, April 14, 2018 4:23 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
There are very serious allegations that have been made against Trump.

List those allegations, specifically and in detail.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Saturday, April 14, 2018 4:29 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


In others words krappo, I posted statement 1. Then I posted statement 2. Then I posted a link. And you were stupid enough to pretend that the link referenced statement 1, instead of statement 2. Then you got caught in a stupid lie. And now you have nothing left except TROLLING.
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
My link was NOT to the quote I posted


no shit

Quote:


(anyone can put a quoted phrase in google and track back the source


Duh, how do you think I found out what the actual source of the quote was? But more to the point, why should we have to? Why wouldn't you give a link for a direct quote? And then post a link that looks like it's for the quote but is actually for something else? It wouldn't be because your source was Wikipedia, would it? And because you were quoting Wikipedia selectively - omitting sentences that contradicted your point?

Quote:

In any case, my post still stands

Ha. And what point is that?

Quote:

He's just a chronic liar.

There's something very Trumpian about being caught lying and then calling the person who caught you a liar. I can see why you like him so much.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521







So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 7:36 AM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


So you admit not posting a link to your Wikipedia quote. Because "anyone can do a google search to find it".

Hmm.

Kiki, if this was any other poster I would prob give them the benefit of the doubt. But you are the queen of fake links. I've caught you posting false links - links that don't back up your assertions - so many times, that I'm suspicious of your "innocent mistakes" with links.

All you have to do is link your sources accurately, kiki, and there'll be no room for suspicion.


-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Monday, April 23, 2018 12:34 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


In others words krappo, I posted statement 1. Then I posted statement 2. Then I posted a link. And you were stupid enough to pretend that the link referenced statement 1, instead of statement 2. Then you got caught in a stupid lie. And now you have nothing left except TROLLING.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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