REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

three very different views

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Saturday, April 7, 2018 23:15
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Monday, March 26, 2018 4:56 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So I was listening and reading, and got some very different views about Trump.

One is from an American now based iirc in Japan who reads all the 'local' newspapers - yanno, papers we couldn't generally access here. And he said that Trump scored high marks in SK, China, India and Japan, by basically stating he was looking for areas of mutual self-interest between the US and those countries. Apparently Xi Jinping thought so well of Trump he treated Trump to a state dinner in the Forbidden City, something that hasn't happened with a foreigner in over 80 years. He also made a point of stating how vastly differently the papers of those respective countries covered Trump vs how the US covered him.

And then there is another astute foreigner living in the US who's been fairly pro-Trump until the appointment of Bolton, at which point he went off the rails and said - yep, the neo-cons got to him.

And then there was the third opinion that Washington is so owned by the Deep State, that no one person could possibly be a change agent, not even the president. That it would take a years (decades) long movement with a deep bench of experienced people to wash out the old system and replace it with a new functioning apparatus to do that.

I know I haven't linked the sources, but honestly, I don't think anybody would bother listening to hours of interviews or read multiple multi-page essays.

I'm just putting down a marker for later comparison.

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Monday, March 26, 2018 7:16 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So I was listening and reading, and got some very different views about Trump.

One is from an American now based iirc in Japan who reads all the 'local' newspapers - yanno, papers we couldn't generally access here. And he said that Trump scored high marks in SK, China, India and Japan, by basically stating he was looking for areas of mutual self-interest between the US and those countries. Apparently Xi Jinping thought so well of Trump he treated Trump to a state dinner in the Forbidden City, something that hasn't happened with a foreigner in over 80 years. He also made a point of stating how vastly differently the papers of those respective countries covered Trump vs how the US covered him.

And then there is another astute foreigner living in the US who's been fairly pro-Trump until the appointment of Bolton, at which point he went off the rails and said - yep, the neo-cons got to him.

And then there was the third opinion that Washington is so owned by the Deep State, that no one person could possibly be a change agent, not even the president. That it would take a years (decades) long movement with a deep bench of experienced people to wash out the old system and replace it with a new functioning apparatus to do that.

I know I haven't linked the sources, but honestly, I don't think anybody would bother listening to hours of interviews or read multiple multi-page essays.

I'm just putting down a marker for later comparison.

Those 3 may be different perspectives of view, but I wouldn't consider them opposites, or mutually exclusive.
I consider all 3 to be valid and viable, although I would hope the 3rd to be more pessimistic than the future will reveal.

It does seem like MSM is giving Bolton a pass. A very bad sign.

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Monday, March 26, 2018 7:56 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

And then there was the third opinion that Washington is so owned by the Deep State, that no one person could possibly be a change agent, not even the president. That it would take a years (decades) long movement with a deep bench of experienced people to wash out the old system and replace it with a new functioning apparatus to do that.

Trump has successfully cultivated an image as flaky and incompetent.

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Monday, March 26, 2018 2:19 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Not everybody thinks so. He is, by the accounts of the news papers in those Asian countries he visited, very respected and well-received.

It could be you are the victim of a ruse, and the propaganda it's feeding into. That's why it's helpful to break out of the Imperial narrative.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, March 26, 2018 2:23 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"It does seem like MSM is giving Bolton a pass. A very bad sign." I agree.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Tuesday, March 27, 2018 10:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


There are at least two other views floating around "out there":

The fourth (by your count) comes from true believers, people who scrutinize the posts of Q (Q Anon) like some armageddonist poring over the Apocrypha. In this quote, from November of last year, he said that ... but in THIS quote from March 23 he said that ... but here he said that ....

The latest catch-phrase is Trust the plan, the interpretation is that all of Trump's actions (including the appointment of Bolton) are part of The Plan. Sometimes the interpreters of Q Anon have to do some pretty impressive mental backflips to maintain their narrative, but (again, according to them) Bolton was appointed so Trump could find out HIS sources and roll them ALL up at the same time. As "Dave" of X22 says ...the Deep State goes pretty deep" .... it won't work to lop off the mouthpieces of the Deep State, you need to dig deeper and deeper to find their true handlers.

Dave points to a series of Executive Orders, meetings, and events which, quite frankly, DO point to active and ongoing measures to quietly root out the Deep State including cutting their sources of illegal funding (by closing the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan to interdict the Deep State's opium poppy trade). If I could remember all of the EOs, meetings, and events it would make a pretty impressive list. According to "Dave" one of the targets of the Trump administration is The Fed. Regulation of social media Internet Bill of Rights (Come on, people sign the petition already) was something predicted by Q Anon (they say). Audit The Fed is another, and international sex trafficking - especially of children- is a third target and Bill and Hillary are involved in that. They say.

The reason why I make such a big deal about this is because nobody here is likely to have heard any of this, and I hope to make a fair representation of their POV. I listen to Dave much like I listened to The Truthseeker: With a mental bucket of popcorn. But I've also gotten some really good insights from both, so I can't reject what they say entirely.

A fifth interpretation is that Trump is just nuts, or perhaps only mildly aware of what's going on in the background, but that there is a splinter anti-Deep State faction (formerly of the Deep State) and that they are somehow managing Trump's actions sufficiently to accomplish their goals of ridding the USA government of Deep State influence.

I guess, in both POVs, it's not about Trump at all: He's either an active member or a distracting sideshow, but much of the REAL work of draining the swamp is with others.

Just my $0.02.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, March 27, 2018 2:14 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
There are at least two other views floating around "out there":

The fourth (by your count) comes from true believers, people who scrutinize the posts of Q (Q Anon) like some armageddonist poring over the Apocrypha. In this quote, from November of last year, he said that ... but in THIS quote from March 23 he said that ... but here he said that ....

The latest catch-phrase is Trust the plan, the interpretation is that all of Trump's actions (including the appointment of Bolton) are part of The Plan. Sometimes the interpreters of Q Anon have to do some pretty impressive mental backflips to maintain their narrative, but (again, according to them) Bolton was appointed so Trump could find out HIS sources and roll them ALL up at the same time. As "Dave" of X22 says ...the Deep State goes pretty deep" .... it won't work to lop off the mouthpieces of the Deep State, you need to dig deeper and deeper to find their true handlers.

Dave points to a series of Executive Orders, meetings, and events which, quite frankly, DO point to active and ongoing measures to quietly root out the Deep State including cutting their sources of illegal funding (by closing the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan to interdict the Deep State's opium poppy trade). If I could remember all of the EOs, meetings, and events it would make a pretty impressive list. According to "Dave" one of the targets of the Trump administration is The Fed. Regulation of social media Internet Bill of Rights (Come on, people sign the petition already) was something predicted by Q Anon (they say). Audit The Fed is another, and international sex trafficking - especially of children- is a third target and Bill and Hillary are involved in that. They say.

The reason why I make such a big deal about this is because nobody here is likely to have heard any of this, and I hope to make a fair representation of their POV. I listen to Dave much like I listened to The Truthseeker: With a mental bucket of popcorn. But I've also gotten some really good insights from both, so I can't reject what they say entirely.

A fifth interpretation is that Trump is just nuts, or perhaps only mildly aware of what's going on in the background, but that there is a splinter anti-Deep State faction (formerly of the Deep State) and that they are somehow managing Trump's actions sufficiently to accomplish their goals of ridding the USA government of Deep State influence.

I guess, in both POVs, it's not about Trump at all: He's either an active member or a distracting sideshow, but much of the REAL work of draining the swamp is with others.

Just my $0.02.

I take it none of that is in published or broadcast media?

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Tuesday, March 27, 2018 2:17 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Yep, these are exactly the type of views I would expect kiki to be reading.

3 different shades of alt-left/alt-right.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Tuesday, March 27, 2018 2:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I's all alt media via Youtube or Steemit

The most consistent vlogger is Dave of X22



but you can also look for Jim Willie, Gerald Celente ummm... I'll see who else popped up. I tend to bunny-trail my way thru the media, don't always keep track of where I've been. But the X22 report is the best place to start.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, March 29, 2018 4:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, I have to say this is weird ...

I've been listening to X22 and some of the other Q-followers, and they have made a number of predictions which are becoming disturbingly true.

One of them was that the giant tech companies would be de-FANGed (facebook, amazon, netflix, and google) - they would be regulated, and some of them wouldn't survive. So in addition to all of the trouble that Facebook is in, for doing what everyone knows ALL of the "free' application do (i.e harvest all of your data) Trump just attacked Amazon, and the FANG stocks are dropping like a rock.

The other thing that was made a deal was the "explanation" (to outraged conservatives) as to why Trump signed the spending bill. The point was made that (1) it wasn't a budget, but a spending bill and (2) Trump would have the authority to take that money and spend it elsewhere if he declared that it was a matter of national security. And yesterday, NPR discussed the possibility that Trump might use some of that Pentagon money to build the wall, because it's a national security issue.

They ALSO predicted that Trump would pull troops out of Syria very soon: Yet another prediction that seems to be coming true, as just today Trump announced a troop withdrawal from Syria.

****

They say that Trump is "rolling up" the deep state by collecting evidence on all of them, including the deepest of the deep state moles.

That many of the deep-state mouthpieces have been compromised by sex tapes, especially pedophilia. They have predicted that there is a bombshell video of Hillary having sex with a child (just saying that's what they say).

That the peace talks between Kim Jon Un and Trump have ALREADY taken place, in China, that these new talks are just for show.

That Trump will sign an "audit the Fed" bill, which will lead to the Fed's destruction.

I posted these last ones because they have not yet been shown to be even partially true, so we can get to see just how plugged in these people really are, or if they're just OTL. But so far , they have been disturbingly correct in some of there more "out there" predictions.

But you don't have to take my word for it, since X22 is online for anyone to listen to, and you can get to hear all of "Dave's" explanations and predictions for yourself. The one thing I appreciate about "Dave" is that he completely ignores what Trump (or anyone else) says, but tracks meetings and events very closely. Still, I'm personally a bit floored, so far.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, April 1, 2018 10:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Having bunny-trailed my way thru the alt media (again) there are two people that Dave X22 has interviewed who I listen to rather closely.

One of them is "London Paul" who has his own website The Sirius Report https://www.thesiriusreport.com/. Altho I listen to him fairly closely I have to say I have never bothered to follow him to his own (subscription) website. Now might be a good time for me to at least check out his free content.

The other is Harley Schlanger who works in the LaRouche organization. Harley really knows history, he always comes up with interesting interpretations that are grounded in reality, plus his interviews are just generally informative.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, April 1, 2018 1:21 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Apr 29, 2016, 3:00 pm

Can't you find something a bit more up to date?
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
https://thinkprogress.org/what-newspapers-in-13-countries-are-saying-a
bout-donald-trump-819e632616d2/






So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, April 1, 2018 5:02 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Apr 29, 2016, 3:00 pm

Can't you find something a bit more up to date?
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
https://thinkprogress.org/what-newspapers-in-13-countries-are-saying-a
bout-donald-trump-819e632616d2/


So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

Which political office did Trump hold in April 2016?

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Sunday, April 1, 2018 11:39 PM

THGRRI


New book claims Kellyanne Conway is ‘number one leaker’ in White House

Kellyanne Conway, President Trump’s loyal counselor, is the “number one leaker” in the White House, a new book alleges.

Ronald Kessler, author of “The Trump White House: Changing the Rules of the Game,” told CNN’s Jake Tapper on Sunday that Conway has had no filter when it comes to divulging information to the media.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/kellyanne-conway-number-leake
r-white-house-book-article-1.3909215



T

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Monday, April 2, 2018 6:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Apparently THUGGER cannot answer the question - why did he post an article from 2016 and think the specifics still applied today?




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, April 2, 2018 10:37 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Apparently THUGGER cannot answer the question - why did he post an article from 2016 and think the specifics still applied today?




The answer is simple kiki. Everything you post suggests you need to go back to the beginning. Your understanding about what has been going on is completely void of the facts.

When you've read what I posted let me know. Don't worry, I won't go to fast for you this time.


T

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Monday, April 2, 2018 10:44 PM

THGRRI


I wonder if Jeff Belzer will sue Trump?


T

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Saturday, April 7, 2018 3:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Anything ON TOPIC to post, THUGGER?

I'll keep checking to see if anyone has anything relevant to say.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Saturday, April 7, 2018 11:15 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Apr 29, 2016, 3:00 pm

Can't you find something a bit more up to date?
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
https://thinkprogress.org/what-newspapers-in-13-countries-are-saying-a
bout-donald-trump-819e632616d2/


So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

Which political office did Trump hold in April 2016?

Since this post, we only see the pitiful attempts by T to derail the thread. As if T is still the sockpuppetbot of second or G/CC.
It's been a blessed Grace to have a respite derived from his login screwup.

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