REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Chemical weapons: Are we detecting a pattern yet?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, July 8, 2018 08:38
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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 12:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


According GWB and his entire administration, in messages repeated ad nauseum, Saddm had WMD. There was, of course, very little actual evidence behind it. And even tho Hans Blix and UNMOVIC were scouring the Iraqi countryside looking for exactly that (and finding nothing) that didn't stop the west from invading Iraq on specious claims.

****

Obama draws a "red line" about chemical weapons in Syria in 2012, and a year later, EVEN AS UN CHEMICAL WEAPONS INSPECTORS ARE IN SYRIA, Assad supposedly launches a chemical attack on Ghouta, triggering a crisis.

Then, as Syrian and Russian forces are achieving battlefield success and pressuring the so-called moderate rebels into accepting de-escalation zones, Assad supposedly launches yet another chemical weapons attack, this time in Kahn Shaykhun, using a type of chemical weapon that had been supposedly purged from Syria. This attack de-legitimizes the Astana peace process, prompts a barrage of missile launches form the USA, and prolongs the proxy war in Syria.

Meanwhile, Russia, under tremendous pressure from the west due to sanctions, oil price war, attack on the ruble, and accusations from the west, allegedly poisons a former spy in the UK using a chemical weapon that could "only" have come from Russia, the UK press says. This event brings NATO together and prompts even more sanctions on Russia.

And now, right on the heels of the Skripal poisoning and immediately after Trump declares that US troops will pull out of Syria, Russia (or Assad) supposedly launches YET ANOTHER chemical attack. This attack could only cause US troops to stay on in Syria even longer than Trump might have planned.

*****

So, is Russia just obstinately and stupidly defiant, continuing to shoot itself in the foot over and over? Or is something else going on?

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 1:44 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
According GWB and his entire administration, in messages repeated ad nauseum, Saddm had WMD. There was, of course, very little actual evidence behind it. And even tho Hans Blix and UNMOVIC were scouring the Iraqi countryside looking for exactly that (and finding nothing) that didn't stop the west from invading Iraq on specious claims.

****

Obama draws a "red line" about chemical weapons in Syria in 2012, and a year later, EVEN AS UN CHEMICAL WEAPONS INSPECTORS ARE IN SYRIA, Assad supposedly launches a chemical attack on Ghouta, triggering a crisis.

Then, as Syrian and Russian forces are achieving battlefield success and pressuring the so-called moderate rebels into accepting de-escalation zones, Assad supposedly launches yet another chemical weapons attack, this time in Kahn Shaykhun, using a type of chemical weapon that had been supposedly purged from Syria. This attack de-legitimizes the Astana peace process, prompts a barrage of missile launches form the USA, and prolongs the proxy war in Syria.

Meanwhile, Russia, under tremendous pressure from the west due to sanctions, oil price war, attack on the ruble, and accusations from the west, allegedly poisons a former spy in the UK using a chemical weapon that could "only" have come from Russia, the UK press says. This event brings NATO together and prompts even more sanctions on Russia.

And now, right on the heels of the Skripal poisoning and immediately after Trump declares that US troops will pull out of Syria, Russia (or Assad) supposedly launches YET ANOTHER chemical attack. This attack could only cause US troops to stay on in Syria even longer than Trump might have planned.

*****

So, is Russia just obstinately and stupidly defiant, continuing to shoot itself in the foot over and over? Or is something else going on?



Yes, Russia is that stupid. Too often people look for or assume that behind such things there's some Deep Logic or Great Cunning, when it's more likely a Confederacy of Dunces at work.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 2:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


What about the drumbeat of "WMD IN IRAQ!" ? Do you remember that? It was non-stop, from every corner of the federal government. But it was completely untrue. Do you need further proof that our government will propagandize us into war?






So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 5:23 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
What about the drumbeat of "WMD IN IRAQ!" ? Do you remember that? It was non-stop, from every corner of the federal government. But it was completely untrue. Do you need further proof that our government will propagandize us into war?

If people have the memory capacity of a goldfish (and that's an insult to goldfish everywhere) that can only advantage advertisers, politicians, and the deep state.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 7:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


And people's memory, and more important, attention span are ...






... oh look! Shiny!




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 8:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, let's look at the reporting so far, with comments from me.

This is from Reuters.

Quote:

Moscow and Washington [BOTH] halted attempts by each other in the U.N. Security Council to set up international investigations into chemical weapons attacks in Syria, which is in the throes of a seven-year-old civil PROXY war.
You will note that BOTH the USA and Russia blocked attempts to set up an investigation. Why?

Also, although the MSM has consistently called this a "civil" war, due to the heavy presence of foreign fighters and foreign support, this has never been a "civil war", it is a PROXY WAR, with western powers teaming up with the Gulf States and takfiris/ terrorists to achieve the "Assad must go" endpoint. PLEASE NOTE THAT ASSAD WAS ELECTED, IS A SECULAR LEADER, AND IS STILL THE UNITED NATIONS-RECOGNIZED HEAD OF SYRIA, so any attempt to destroy the Syrian government is, by UN definition, a war crime.

Funny that the MSM never seems to mention all of that.

Quote:

U.S. President Donald Trump and Western allies are discussing possible military action to punish Assad for a suspected poison gas attack on Saturday on a rebel-held town that long had held out against government forces.
So, the west is willing to "punish" a leader for an action that (1) not only has no responsibility been determined, but (2) the event itself has not yet been confirmed?? I would say that is a curious state of affairs, but given the history of the west, it's pretty much par for the course.

Quote:

Trump on Tuesday canceled a planned trip to Latin America later this week to focus instead on responding to the Syria incident, the White House said. Trump had on Monday warned of a quick, forceful response once responsibility for the Syria attack was established.
Well, at least they're waiting to figure out who was responsible! Now, how are they going to do THAT?

Quote:

On the diplomatic front, the United Nations Security Council failed to approve three draft resolutions on chemical weapons attacks in Syria. Russia vetoed a U.S. text, while two Russian-drafted resolutions failed to get a minimum nine votes to pass.
I wonder what the significant differences were between the resolutions, and what each side found objectionable. That would be a nice bit of reporting ...

Quote:

Moscow opposes any Western strike on its close ally Assad and has vetoed Security Council action on Syria 12 times since the conflict started.
Also, what did Moscow veto? If they're going to bring it up, they should explain it.

Quote:

U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley told the Security Council that adopting the U.S.-drafted resolution was the least that member nations could do.

“History will record that, on this day, Russia chose protecting a monster over the lives of the Syrian people,” Haley said, referring to Assad. At least 60 people were killed and more than 1,000 injured in Saturday’s suspected chemical weapons attack on the town of Douma, according to a Syrian relief group.

Well, Haley is a John Bolton clone, and everyone knows that John Bolton is a warmonger par excellence.

Quote:

Doctors and witnesses have said victims showed symptoms of poisoning, possibly by a nerve agent, and reported the smell of chlorine gas.
Well, I don't expect the injured to be consistent in their reports, but .... which is it? Chlorine? Or nerve gas?

Quote:

Russian U.N. Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia said Washington’s decision to put forward its resolution could be a prelude to a Western strike on Syria.

“I would once again ask you, once again beseech you, to refrain from the plans that you’re currently developing for Syria,” he said after the council failed to approve a third draft resolution on chemical weapons attacks in Syria.



Again, what were the significant differences between the resolutions?

Quote:

International chemical weapons experts are expected to go to Douma to investigate the suspected poison gas attack. France and Britain discussed with the Trump administration how to respond to the Douma attack. Both stressed that the culprit still needed to be confirmed.


Quote:

The Douma incident has thrust Syria’s conflict back to the forefront of the international stage, pitting Washington and Moscow against each other once again. Trump said that he would make a decision about how to respond within a few days, adding that the United States had “a lot of options militarily” on Syria.
Well, an investigation that isn't just a sham needs more than "a few days" to complete. So ... wth is Trump deciding on?

Quote:

Assad’s government and Russia have said there was no evidence a gas attack had taken place and that the claim was bogus.
Because .... why? What was their reasoning? Are they claiming that pictures were faked?

Quote:

Any U.S. strike is likely to involve naval assets, given the risk to aircraft from Russian and Syrian air defense systems. A U.S. Navy guided-missile destroyer, the USS Donald Cook, is in the Mediterranean.

A key issue being considered by U.S. defense and intelligence agencies and war planners is the effectiveness of Syrian air defenses and the extent to which Russia is helping to organize, and ultimately, direct Syrian air defense operations, according to two U.S. government sources. Last year, the United States launched strikes from two Navy destroyers against a Syrian air base. U.S. military action similar to last year’s would likely not cause a shift in the direction of the war that has gone Assad’s way since 2015 with massive aid from Iran and Russia.

So without having confirmed that the event took place, or determined who was responsible, the Trump administration - and this article - is already mulling the type of military action to be taken? And nobody thinks that this is a bit premature?

Quote:

There was little expectation that members of Congress would object if Trump launched an attack on Syria, despite some calls for lawmakers to exert their power to authorize military action. Most members of Congress – Democrats as well as his fellow Republicans - praised Trump after the strike last year.
It was the same with the destruction of Iraq. One of the oft-repeated defenses of that debacle from the GOP side was that Democrats like Feinstein and Hillary went along with it. Hmmm... but that doesn't mean that the GOP was correct, merely that many Democrats are as war-mongering or stupid as Republicans. So consensus doesn't mean correctness.

Quote:

French President Emmanuel Macron said on Tuesday that any strikes would not target the Syrian government’s allies or anybody in particular, but would be aimed at the Syrian government’s chemical facilities.

The Hague-based Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) said Syria had been asked to make the necessary arrangements for the deployment of an investigation team.

“The team is preparing to deploy to Syria shortly,” it said in a statement. The mission will aim to determine whether banned munitions were used but will not assign blame. The Assad government and Russia both urged the OPCW to investigate the allegations of chemical weapons use in Douma, a move by the two countries that was apparently aimed at averting any U.S.-led action.

Why would anyone - including the USA - NOT want to investigate? And how does the OPCW investigation relate - if at all- to the proposed UN Security Council-sponsored investigations? Wouldn't they be just duplicating each other's work? Clearly some politics at work, but the article doesn't explain what.

Quote:

“Syria is keen on cooperating with the OPCW to uncover the truth behind the allegations that some Western sides have been advertising to justify their aggressive intentions,” Syria’s state news agency SANA said.

A European source said European governments were waiting for the OPCW to carry out its investigation and for more solid forensic evidence from the attack to emerge. Any plan by Washington and its allies to take military action was likely to be on hold until then, the source said.

In Syria, thousands of militants and their families arrived in rebel-held parts of the country’s northwest after surrendering Douma to government forces.

Their evacuation restored Assad’s control over eastern Ghouta, formerly the biggest rebel bastion near Damascus, and gave him his biggest battlefield victory since 2016, when he took back Aleppo.

Aggravating the volatile situation in the region, Iran - Assad’s other main ally - threatened to respond to an air strike on a Syrian military base on Monday that Tehran, Damascus and Moscow have blamed on Israel.

Ah yes, Israel ... always stirring the pot!

MORE AT

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-options/u-s-we
ighs-multinational-military-response-to-syria-attack-sources-idUSKBN1HH00W


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Wednesday, April 11, 2018 5:57 AM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


To neocons, every geopolitical confrontation is a replay of WWII, and stopping Hitler.

To Kiki and Siggy, every geopolitical confrontation is a replay of Iraq, and our governments lying to us to drumbeat for war.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:49 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
To neocons, every geopolitical confrontation is a replay of WWII, and stopping Hitler.

To Kiki and Siggy, every geopolitical confrontation is a replay of Iraq, and our governments lying to us to drumbeat for war.



And neoliberals have the short term memory of an Alzheimer's patient.

It's a necessary character trait they must possess, otherwise they would have to face their own hypocrisy every single day.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, April 11, 2018 10:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

To Kiki and Siggy, every geopolitical confrontation is a replay of Iraq
Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya
Quote:

and our governments lying to us to drumbeat for war.- KRAPO
Yanno KRAPO, since Korea I can't think of a single military nation-destruction that the USA engaged in that WASN'T preceded by a blizzard of lies.

Can you?

Name one.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Wednesday, April 11, 2018 10:41 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump was ranting about Syria before dawn this morning. Signym and 1kiki voted for Trump:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/984017894240604161

So much Fake News about what is going on in the White House. Very calm and calculated with a big focus on open and fair trade with China, the coming North Korea meeting and, of course, the vicious gas attack in Syria. Feels great to have Bolton & Larry K on board.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/984022625440747520

Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and “smart!” You shouldn’t be partners with a Gas Killing Animal who kills his people and enjoys it!

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, April 13, 2018 6:26 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Russian Trolls Denied Syrian Gas Attack—Before It Happened

Weeks before the world saw the bodies of men, women, and children dead from an apparent Syrian military chemical attack in Douma, Syria, the Russian military was already spreading bizarre conspiracy theories about an impending “false flag” chemical attack carried out by rebels.

Russian conspiracy propaganda and truther chum have been a staple of official discourse whenever Moscow wants to cover up bad behavior by its allies in Damascus. When the Assad regime used sarin nerve agents on the town of Khan Sheikhoun in 2017, Russian officials accused Syrian first responders—a group known as the White Helmets—of fabricating the attacks—saying it was impossible to explain otherwise how the group “managed to work for such a long period of time and remain alive without gas masks and special protection equipment” while documenting the attack.

Russia’s UN Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia has dredged up the same talking points now to label Douma a “pretext” that was “eagerly provided by the White Helmets’ provocateurs.” But this time, the propaganda campaign got a head start—and they’ve even tried to remix old children’s plays and spy novels to make their point.

“What’s perhaps interesting in this one is the way that Russian officialdom started building the narrative on a false flag a month ago,” Ben Nimmo, a researcher at Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab who studies disinformation campaigns, told The Daily Beast. “There’s a measure of foresight and forethought there which is quite interesting.”

More at www.thedailybeast.com/russian-trolls-denied-syrian-gas-attackbefore-it
-happened


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, April 13, 2018 1:31 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
And people's memory, and more important, attention span are ...






... oh look! Shiny!





Tucker Carlson
The Jimmy Dore Show



https://www.hooktube.com/watch?v=DbQB1EQ32CE

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Friday, April 13, 2018 1:33 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Jimmy Dore is good. Probably too Right Wing for T though.... lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, April 13, 2018 4:45 PM

JJ


Simple, the Russians did it.

JJ


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Friday, April 13, 2018 9:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, now THAT interview was heading in a direction that the interviewer hadn't counted on!



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, April 14, 2018 6:59 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


So have any of these questions been answered?

Is there an apparatus on the ground to identify what gas was used, as nd where it came from, who used it?

Is this Trump's play to get us into combat?

If not Trump, does anybody know who, which department?

Are UK, France part of the play, or just following?

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Saturday, April 14, 2018 8:07 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


In the aftermath of the latest suspected chemical attack in Syria, the Russian government borrowed a tactic from President Trump. First, it denied the evidence: “False information is being planted about the alleged use of chlorine and other toxic agents by the Syrian government forces.” Then, it gave the allegations a familiar label: “fake news.”

After that, it blamed the attack on a humanitarian organization, the Syrian White Helmets — an extraordinary group of volunteers who pull people out of the rubble after bombs go off — and not for the first time. The White Helmets have been the focus of an intensive smear campaign, going back many years, involving hundreds of false articles and fake videos. The organizers of this effort have made shrewd use of social media algorithms to spread their accusations far and wide: On a friend’s suggestion, I typed “White Helmets” into YouTube’s search engine a couple of days ago. Seven of the first 10 results were links to attacks on the organization broadcast by RT, the Russian state propaganda channel.

The campaign is part of a broader attack on trusted organizations and a broader promotion of doubt and suspicion in the international conversation. And no wonder: The White Helmets not only offer humanitarian aid (thus proving that not all opponents of the Syrian regime are terrorists), but also they document Syrian and Russian war crimes. Like Trump’s attacks on the “mainstream media,” the Russian campaign against the White Helmets is an attempt to undermine an organization that strives to tell the truth.

In the current context, the United States has no credibility. Nobody believes that this White House has a long-term strategy in Syria or any real policy toward chemical weapons. Nobody believes that an attack on a Syrian chemical weapons facility or an airfield would end the use of these weapons either; certainly the 2017 one didn’t. While Russia seeks to undermine any assessment of what is happening on the ground, Trump undermines the United States’ authority to do anything about it.

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-has-no-credibility-to-counter-ru
ssias-lies-on-syria/2018/04/13/35af9722-3f29-11e8-974f-aacd97698cef_story.html?utm_term=.007c7773c8f5


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, April 14, 2018 8:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
So have any of these questions been answered?

Not yet

Quote:

Is there an apparatus on the ground to identify what gas was used, as nd where it came from, who used it?
OPCW just arrived. the same day USA, UK, and France struck Syria with missiles. I wonder if this missile strike will create access problems for the investigation team(s).

Quote:

Is this Trump's play to get us into combat?
I think Trump is just reacting to whatever info he was fed,

Quote:

If not Trump, does anybody know who, which department?
Not Mattis, supposedly. Just more neocon/ deep state crap; probably Bolton.

Quote:

Are UK, France part of the play, or just following?
I heard that the UK is leading this particular effort, not just from the air but they have spec ops on the ground in Douma who cooked this thing up. That's what the Russians say, anyway.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, April 14, 2018 8:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I'm checking here https://southfront.org/ to get some news.

Also here https://syria.liveuamap.com/ but this map gets refreshed frequently and isn't archived.

The alt media has been warning for at least two months to expect a significant false flag, and probably more than one. It's been their contention that the globalists are desperate to stoke a war because they can use that confusion as an excuse for the coming financial implosion. Just FYI



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, April 14, 2018 11:57 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm checking here https://southfront.org/ to get some news.

Also here https://syria.liveuamap.com/ but this map gets refreshed frequently and isn't archived.

The alt media has been warning for at least two months to expect a significant false flag, and probably more than one. It's been their contention that the globalists are desperate to stoke a war because they can use that confusion as an excuse for the coming financial implosion. Just FYI




I really need to get into the AltMedia biz - since everything can be explained pretty convincingly as a "false flag" you don't have to have studied journalism, or care about professional integrity, which makes the business model pretty bullet proof. Plus, we've seen that many people never seem to get passed their child mind fear of there being a Boogey Man under their bed or a Balrog in the wood pile, or a pedophile in the pizza shop, so sowing doubt and fear is so very easy. < / truthy snark >

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Saturday, April 14, 2018 12:21 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:

I really need to get into the AltMedia biz - since everything can be explained pretty convincingly as a "false flag" you don't have to have studied journalism, or care about professional integrity . . .

Alex Jones, founder of the AltMedia website InfoWars, is a true-believer in "false flag". False flag explains everything, even high school shootings. Alex Jones slams Trump over his decision to authorize military airstrikes on Syria. InfoWars and Alex Jones personally were among the key supporters of Trump’s presidential campaign. Watch Jones swear at Trump: https://southfront.org/f-k-trump-infowars-alex-jones-fiercely-reacts-t
o-trumps-strikes-on-syria-video
/

Jones didn't say the names Trump, Bolton or the other nut cases. He aimed his vengeance at Secretary of Defense Mattis. But Mattis was the only one asking for caution and to await the UN's experts - finding out the truth regarding the fake chemical attacks that didn't happen.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, April 14, 2018 3:44 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
So have any of these questions been answered?

Not yet
Quote:

Is there an apparatus on the ground to identify what gas was used, as nd where it came from, who used it?
OPCW just arrived. the same day USA, UK, and France struck Syria with missiles. I wonder if this missile strike will create access problems for the investigation team(s).
Quote:

Is this Trump's play to get us into combat?
I think Trump is just reacting to whatever info he was fed,
Quote:

If not Trump, does anybody know who, which department?
Not Mattis, supposedly. Just more neocon/ deep state crap; probably Bolton.
Quote:

Are UK, France part of the play, or just following?
I heard that the UK is leading this particular effort, not just from the air but they have spec ops on the ground in Douma who cooked this thing up. That's what the Russians say, anyway.

Ah, Bolton.
Now we see how the plan comes together.

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Saturday, April 14, 2018 4:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

Russian Trolls Denied Syrian Gas Attack—Before It Happened

Weeks before the world saw the bodies presumed bodies of men, women, and children dead from a apparent western-government alleged Syrian military chemical attack in Douma, Syria, the Russian military media was already spreading bizarre reasonable conspiracy theories about an impending “false flag” chemical attack carried out by rebels.

Russian conspiracy propaganda and truther chum sources have been a staple of official media discourse whenever ...




WOW. Do you really believe the crap you posted, SECOND? It's like turgid bodice-ripper fiction written for people who are extremely gullible, and have no use for evidence in the real world.

If that's the kind of reading you prefer, let me recommend a book. I haven't read it, but the cover makes it look like it's just your style.






So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Saturday, April 14, 2018 5:24 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Killing the Truth: http://thesyriacampaign.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/KillingtheTruth
.pdf


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

Quote:

Russian Trolls Denied Syrian Gas Attack—Before It Happened

Weeks before the world saw the bodies presumed bodies of men, women, and children dead from a apparent western-government alleged Syrian military chemical attack in Douma, Syria, the Russian military media was already spreading bizarre reasonable conspiracy theories about an impending “false flag” chemical attack carried out by rebels.

Russian conspiracy propaganda and truther chum sources have been a staple of official media discourse whenever ...




WOW. Do you really believe the crap you posted, SECOND? It's like turgid bodice-ripper fiction written for people who are extremely gullible, and have no use for evidence in the real world.

If that's the kind of reading you prefer, let me recommend a book. I haven't read it, but the cover makes it look like it's just your style.






So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, April 14, 2018 6:16 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So you post an extended ad that contains ... not one bit of evidence.

Let me ask you this, SECOND. Can you have truth without facts? Can you have facts without evidence?




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Saturday, April 14, 2018 6:52 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:







Nailed it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 7:03 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So you post an extended ad that contains ... not one bit of evidence.

Let me ask you this, SECOND. Can you have truth without facts? Can you have facts without evidence?




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
1kiki, now you have gone all philosophical: "Can you have truth without facts? Can you have facts without evidence?" There is only two place where evidence is taken seriously and neither are the internet. One is trials. The other is science. In trials, everybody shows up at one place, using their real names, and presents their evidence. We don't have anything remotely like that at fireflyfans.net. We don't even know that today's 1kiki is the same person as 2017's 1kiki swearing to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

The other, science, at least has everybody using their real names and having their reputations on the line when presenting evidence in scientific journals. But the scientific controversies drag on for years. Ask Einstein about those long years that pass before decisions are made about what is experimentally true. He even had to flee Europe because his science made him a target for assassination. (German physicists: General Relativity = Jewish Science) Again, we have nothing like science at fireflyfans.net. We can't shutdown down 1kiki if s/he continuously passes counterfeit "evidence" as real and presents bogus theories as proven science.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 7:48 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


The "Syrian Rebels" have according to Russia and her defenders, gassed themselves how many times, because why? So they can have the US/UK/France drop a few bombs on... chemical weapons plants? And they based this most recent self-gassing on an event that happened a year ago, when they gassed themselves which produced... a limp wristed slap on an abandoned air field. Makes zero sense.

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 8:07 AM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
The "Syrian Rebels" have according to Russia and her defenders, gassed themselves how many times, because why? So they can have the US/UK/France drop a few bombs on... chemical weapons plants? And they based this most recent self-gassing on an event that happened a year ago, when they gassed themselves which produced... a limp wristed slap on an abandoned air field. Makes zero sense.


+1

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Sunday, April 15, 2018 8:38 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
The "Syrian Rebels" have according to Russia and her defenders, gassed themselves how many times, because why? So they can have the US/UK/France drop a few bombs on... chemical weapons plants? And they based this most recent self-gassing on an event that happened a year ago, when they gassed themselves which produced... a limp wristed slap on an abandoned air field. Makes zero sense.

This calls for a Firefly story inspired by the chemical attacks. The Alliance, playing the role of the Russians, wishes to cover up the murder of everyone in Haven, playing the role of a Syrian town in revolt against Damascus. The Operative does not want Haven as a news story on the Central Planets. He drops a 2000 pound bomb on Haven’s reactor, which powers the mines and the homes. The reactor does NOT explode in a huge atomic fireball as expected. This ruins the cover story that the people of Haven accidentally killed themselves because they misused their reactor. The evidence of the Haven massacre was NOT obliterated by a so-called reactor accident. This was because prescient River shutdown the Haven reactor before Serenity left for Miranda. As an extra precaution against the Alliance finding another way to destroy evidence that there was a massacre at Haven, River, who was supposed to be collecting corpses for decorating Serenity as a Reaver ship, moved a few children’s bodies into the mines then blew-up the entrance. The bullet-riddled bodies are still there, and one day will be evidence.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 9:21 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump Ordered Syria Strike Based on a Secret Legal Justification Even Congress Can’t See

On Friday night, Trump ordered the U.S. military to conduct a bombing attack against the government of Syria without congressional authorization. How can this be constitutional, given the fact that Article I, Section 8 of America’s founding document declares that “The Congress shall have Power … To declare War”?

The deeply bizarre and alarming answer is that Trump almost certainly does have some purported legal justification provided to him by the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel — but no one else, including Congress, can read it.

. . . the general outlines of Trump’s legal basis for Friday’s bombing are fairly clear. They are also truly extreme. As Jack Goldsmith, one of the heads of the OLC during the Bush administration, has said, it’s a perspective that “places no limit at all on the president’s ability to use significant military force unilaterally.”

That would be bad enough, of course, if everything were out in the open. But at least then it could be debated on specifics, rather than supposition. Instead, we have allowed the Constitution to be eviscerated to the point that not only does the president have nearly unlimited war powers, we can’t even say exactly why.

https://theintercept.com/2018/04/14/donald-trump-ordered-syria-strike-
based-on-a-secret-legal-justification-even-congress-cant-see
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 9:48 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
This calls for a Firefly story inspired by the chemical attacks. The Alliance, playing the role of the Russians, wishes to cover up the murder of everyone in Haven, playing the role of a Syrian town in revolt against Damascus. The Operative does not want Haven as a news story on the Central Planets. He drops a 2000 pound bomb on Haven’s reactor, which powers the mines and the homes. The reactor does NOT explode in a huge atomic fireball as expected. This ruins the cover story that the people of Haven accidentally killed themselves because they misused their reactor. The evidence of the Haven massacre was NOT obliterated by a so-called reactor accident. This was because prescient River shutdown the Haven reactor before Serenity left for Miranda. As an extra precaution against the Alliance finding another way to destroy evidence that there was a massacre at Haven, River, who was supposed to be collecting corpses for decorating Serenity as a Reaver ship, moved a few children’s bodies into the mines then blew-up the entrance. The bullet-riddled bodies are still there, and one day will be evidence.



+2 Damn! I really miss that show!

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 1:09 PM

JJ


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
This calls for a Firefly story inspired by the chemical attacks. The Alliance, playing the role of the Russians, wishes to cover up the murder of everyone in Haven, playing the role of a Syrian town in revolt against Damascus. The Operative does not want Haven as a news story on the Central Planets. He drops a 2000 pound bomb on Haven’s reactor, which powers the mines and the homes. The reactor does NOT explode in a huge atomic fireball as expected. This ruins the cover story that the people of Haven accidentally killed themselves because they misused their reactor. The evidence of the Haven massacre was NOT obliterated by a so-called reactor accident. This was because prescient River shutdown the Haven reactor before Serenity left for Miranda. As an extra precaution against the Alliance finding another way to destroy evidence that there was a massacre at Haven, River, who was supposed to be collecting corpses for decorating Serenity as a Reaver ship, moved a few children’s bodies into the mines then blew-up the entrance. The bullet-riddled bodies are still there, and one day will be evidence.



+2 Damn! I really miss that show!



Ditto, and I take great pleasure in that Russia did not survive time and make it into the future.

JJ


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Sunday, April 15, 2018 1:39 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JJ:

Ditto, and I take great pleasure in that Russia did not survive time and make it into the future.

JJ


I see that Putin has made a promise to cause 'chaos' if he does not get his way: Russia's Putin predicts global 'chaos' if West hits Syria again.
www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria/russias-putin-predicts
-global-chaos-if-west-hits-syria-again-idUSKBN1HM0BK


Will Putin keep his promise this time to bring chaos? Or is Putin a lying sack of shit, much like his student Donald Trump? It is hard to tell, but recently Russia promised and did not follow through: Russia will shoot down US missiles fired at Syria and retaliate against launch sites, says ambassador
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/russia-us-missiles-syria-
launch-sites-lebanon-zasypkin-putin-a8298941.html


It is too late for Russia to shoot down Tomahawk missiles, but there is still time to sink some US ships and destroy US planes. Hurry, Putin! Hurry! It is almost Monday in Syria. And the NYSE will open. Putin could crash the stock-market if he tries.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 2:41 PM

JJ


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by JJ:

Ditto, and I take great pleasure in that Russia did not survive time and make it into the future.

JJ


I see that Putin has made a promise to cause 'chaos' if he does not get his way: Russia's Putin predicts global 'chaos' if West hits Syria again.
www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria/russias-putin-predicts
-global-chaos-if-west-hits-syria-again-idUSKBN1HM0BK


Will Putin keep his promise this time to bring chaos? Or is Putin a lying sack of shit, much like his student Donald Trump? It is hard to tell, but recently Russia promised and did not follow through: Russia will shoot down US missiles fired at Syria and retaliate against launch sites, says ambassador
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/russia-us-missiles-syria-
launch-sites-lebanon-zasypkin-putin-a8298941.html


It is too late for Russia to shoot down Tomahawk missiles, but there is still time to sink some US ships and destroy US planes. Hurry, Putin! Hurry! It is almost Monday in Syria. And the NYSE will open. Putin could crash the stock-market if he tries.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]




The best predictor of Putin is that he will do only what he is allowed to get away with.

JJ


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Sunday, April 15, 2018 2:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"There is only two place where evidence is taken seriously and neither are the internet. One is trials. The other is science."

So, you're OK with going along with propaganda. Thanks for letting me know where you're coming from. Now I know how seriously to take you, which is not at all.

I'll be scrolling past you from now on.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 2:53 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"The "Syrian Rebels" have according to Russia and her defenders, gassed themselves how many times, because why?"

They don't gas themselves. They gas civilians.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 6:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"The "Syrian Rebels" have according to Russia and her defenders, gassed themselves how many times, because why?"

They don't gas themselves. They gas civilians.



BINGO

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 6:50 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"There is only two place where evidence is taken seriously and neither are the internet. One is trials. The other is science."

So, you're OK with going along with propaganda. Thanks for letting me know where you're coming from. Now I know how seriously to take you, which is not at all.

I'll be scrolling past you from now on.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
1kiki, you are scrolling past me but I am not okay with you being a lying sack of shit, even under the pseudonym "1kiki", whoever the hell you really are. Signym, Trump and Putin included. Your good buddy and liar Trump fires cruise missiles at Syria because Comey wrote mean, truthful things about him. I expect tiny missiles (on the tiny scale of fff.net) from 1kiki and Signym toward me. To quote Comey on lying: A February 2017 meeting in the White House with Trump and then chief of staff Reince Priebus left Comey recalling his days as a federal prosecutor facing off against the Mob: “The silent circle of assent. The boss in complete control. The loyalty oaths. The us-versus-them worldview. The lying about all things, large and small, in service to some code of loyalty that put the organization above morality and above the truth.” An earlier visit to Trump Tower in January made Comey think about the New York Mafia social clubs he knew as a Manhattan prosecutor in the 1980s and 1990s — “The Ravenite. The Palma Boys. Café Giardino.”

The central themes that Comey returns to throughout this impassioned book are the toxic consequences of lying; and the corrosive effects of choosing loyalty to an individual over truth and the rule of law. Dishonesty, he writes, was central “to the entire enterprise of organized crime on both sides of the Atlantic,” and so, too, were bullying, peer pressure and groupthink — repellent traits shared by Trump and company, he suggests, and now infecting our culture.

“We are experiencing a dangerous time in our country,” Comey writes, “with a political environment where basic facts are disputed, fundamental truth is questioned, lying is normalized and unethical behavior is ignored, excused or rewarded.”

www.nytimes.com/2018/04/12/books/review/james-comey-a-higher-loyalty.h
tml


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 7:32 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So - to summarize the situation -

Syria Invites OPCW to Investigate Alleged Chemical Attack in Douma
APRIL 10, 2018, 9:58 A.M. E.D.T.
reposted from Reuters
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/04/10/world/middleeast/10reuters-
mideast-crisis-syria-ghouta-investigation.html


OPCW inspectors head to suspected Syria gas attack site in Douma
Apr 13, 2018
reposted from AP
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/04/13/world/opcw-inspectors-hea
d-suspected-syria-gas-attack-site-douma/#.WtPdiXZXais


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/13/world/middleeast/trump-strikes-syri
a-attack.html

APRIL 13, 2018
U.S., Britain and France Strike Syria Over Suspected Chemical Weapons Attack

OPCW Mission Arrives in Damascus to Probe Alleged Douma Chemical Attack
13:55 14.04.2018
https://sputniknews.com/world/201804141063554885-opcw-syria-douma-chem
ical-weapons-probe
/

OPCW inspectors set to investigate site of Douma chemical attack
Sun 15 Apr 2018 12.49 EDT
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/15/opcw-inspectors-set-to-i
nvestigate-site-of-douma-chemical-attack





Fortunately, it looks like the OPCW team in Syria is made of sterner stuff than Hans Blix in Iraq, and the team will be at work in Douma, despite US bombing.





So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 8:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

"The "Syrian Rebels" have according to Russia and her defenders, gassed themselves how many times, because why?"
They don't gas themselves. They gas civilians. - KIKI

BINGO- SIGNY

Edited to add... That's why they're called "terrorists". If someone is willing to saw off human heads with a dull knife, or burn women alive in cages, or serially blow off dozens of human heads with chained explosives ... does anyone think that they would hesitate to gas a few people?

SECOND: I don't give a fuck how you feel. There are more important things going on than your outraged sense of entitlement and your permanent grotch. CLEARLY, you have no interest in truth, no empathy for anyone else, and you have the ethics of a tapeworm. I, too, will be scrolling past your posts from now on.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 9:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:

“We are experiencing a dangerous time in our country,” Comey writes, “with a political environment where basic facts are disputed, fundamental truth is questioned, lying is normalized and unethical behavior is ignored, excused or rewarded.”



Nobody knows what the truth is anymore. The truth has become entirely subjective.

This is from decades of politicians hiding secrets and outright lying to the people, and is exacerbated by 24 hour "News" networks that have gone totally to their equal and opposite fringe sides, leaving most of us wondering just WTF is actually real.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 9:27 PM

JJ


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

"The "Syrian Rebels" have according to Russia and her defenders, gassed themselves how many times, because why?"
They don't gas themselves. They gas civilians. - KIKI

BINGO- SIGNY

Edited to add... That's why they're called "terrorists". If someone is willing to saw off human heads with a dull knife, or burn women alive in cages, or serially blow off dozens of human heads with chained explosives ... does anyone think that they would hesitate to gas a few people?

SECOND: I don't give a fuck how you feel. There are more important things going on than your outraged sense of entitlement and your permanent grotch. CLEARLY, you have no interest in truth, no empathy for anyone else, and you have the ethics of a tapeworm. I, too, will be scrolling past your posts from now on.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876]

Yeah, great guys, but we all know the Russians did it.

JJ


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Sunday, April 15, 2018 9:37 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:

“We are experiencing a dangerous time in our country,” Comey writes, “with a political environment where basic facts are disputed, fundamental truth is questioned, lying is normalized and unethical behavior is ignored, excused or rewarded.”

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Nobody knows what the truth is anymore. The truth has become entirely subjective.

This is from decades of politicians hiding secrets and outright lying to the people, and is exacerbated by 24 hour "News" networks that have gone totally to their equal and opposite fringe sides, leaving most of us wondering just WTF is actually real.
Do Right, Be Right. :)

That's why EVIDENCE is so important. And while I don't trust any agency entirely, I trust the OPCW far more than any western government cabal. Because the governments have a known history of lying to us, ESPECIALLY when they want to gin up a war. The OPCW has yet to create a bad history.

I ran across an article in CNN that boggled my mind, but I went past it to look at it later. This was the gist of the topic: syria douma evidence so secret even congress can't see it. Now it's gone. Scrubbed so thoroughly Google doesn't find it.





So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, April 16, 2018 7:41 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:

“We are experiencing a dangerous time in our country,” Comey writes, “with a political environment where basic facts are disputed, fundamental truth is questioned, lying is normalized and unethical behavior is ignored, excused or rewarded.”

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Nobody knows what the truth is anymore. The truth has become entirely subjective.

This is from decades of politicians hiding secrets and outright lying to the people, and is exacerbated by 24 hour "News" networks that have gone totally to their equal and opposite fringe sides, leaving most of us wondering just WTF is actually real.
Do Right, Be Right. :)

That's why EVIDENCE is so important. And while I don't trust any agency entirely, I trust the OPCW far more than any western government cabal. Because the governments have a known history of lying to us, ESPECIALLY when they want to gin up a war. The OPCW has yet to create a bad history.

I ran across an article in CNN that boggled my mind, but I went past it to look at it later. This was the gist of the topic: syria douma evidence so secret even congress can't see it. Now it's gone. Scrubbed so thoroughly Google doesn't find it.





So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?


I can't even think of the last time any evidence for anything has ever been provided. Probably not in my lifetime, or at least in my adult life since I paid it any mind.

I worked for a retired house rep for two years in '99 and 2000. I met a LOT of politicians and knew the States Attorney on a first name basis. My boss trusted me more than he did his wife, and I had a brief look behind the curtain. What I saw was low level stuff. I can only imagine that the bigger the fish get that it only grows exponentially behind the scenes.

These fucking people sign their own checks and vote for their own raises and retirement plans. Sometimes they get caught doing something extraordinarily stupid and they're offered up as sacrificial lambs but it doesn't fix anything. There's always somebody twice as corrupt waiting to fill the vacancy at any time.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, April 16, 2018 8:16 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So - to summarize the situation -

Syria Invites OPCW to Investigate Alleged Chemical Attack in Douma
APRIL 10, 2018, 9:58 A.M. E.D.T.
reposted from Reuters
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/04/10/world/middleeast/10reuters-
mideast-crisis-syria-ghouta-investigation.html


OPCW inspectors head to suspected Syria gas attack site in Douma
Apr 13, 2018
reposted from AP
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/04/13/world/opcw-inspectors-hea
d-suspected-syria-gas-attack-site-douma/#.WtPdiXZXais


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/13/world/middleeast/trump-strikes-syri
a-attack.html

APRIL 13, 2018
U.S., Britain and France Strike Syria Over Suspected Chemical Weapons Attack

OPCW Mission Arrives in Damascus to Probe Alleged Douma Chemical Attack
13:55 14.04.2018
https://sputniknews.com/world/201804141063554885-opcw-syria-douma-chem
ical-weapons-probe
/

OPCW inspectors set to investigate site of Douma chemical attack
Sun 15 Apr 2018 12.49 EDT
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/15/opcw-inspectors-set-to-i
nvestigate-site-of-douma-chemical-attack


Fortunately, it looks like the OPCW team in Syria is made of sterner stuff than Hans Blix in Iraq, and the team will be at work in Douma, despite US bombing.


So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

1kiki, your summary is fucking pointless since the inspectors are unable to access the Douma site, until the Russians are ready.

Russia’s deputy foreign minister said the delay was due to the US-led missile strikes. That makes him a liar, since the attack was days ago. The foreign ministry also fiercely denied that Russia is tampering with the site. If only there were inspectors there, the deputy foreign minister could be proved to be a liar.

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/16/syria-chemical-attack-inspectors
-unable-to-access-douma-site


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, April 16, 2018 12:15 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"The "Syrian Rebels" have according to Russia and her defenders, gassed themselves how many times, because why?"

They don't gas themselves. They gas civilians.



BINGO


Yeah, sorry to disturb your little conspiracy circle jerk, but here's 27 cases documented by the UN blaming the Syrian government for chemicals weapons attacks:


http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/IICISyria/Pages/Documentation.asp
x


Full report here:
http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBodies/HRCouncil/CoISyria/A_HRC_36_55
_EN.docx


"Between March 2013 and March 2017, the Commission documented 25 incidents of chemical weapons use in the Syrian Arab Republic, of which 20 were perpetrated by government forces and used primarily against civilians."

Full methodology of the UN and OPCW in their investigations discussed here: http://undocs.org/S/2017/904

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Monday, April 16, 2018 2:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/16/602823635/chemical-
weapons-inspectors-havent-reached-douma-finger-pointing-has-begun


The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons said that a team of nine inspectors arrived in Damascus on Saturday, after it was invited by Syria and Russia to investigate the apparent chemical attack just over a week ago on on Douma, a suburb of Damascus that has been held by rebels.

The Director-General of the OPCW, Ahmet Üzümcü, told representatives Monday that team members have met with Syrian officials in Damascus.

But they haven't gotten into Douma, about 11 miles away.

"The Syrian and Russian officials who participated in the preparatory meetings in Damascus have informed the [Fact-Finding Mission] Team that there were still pending security issues to be worked out before any deployment could take place," Üzümcü said.
They're not quite there yet. We'll see how long the delay is.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, April 16, 2018 2:31 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


krappo

AND THEN there's the US State Department warning about ISIS and affiliated groups using chemical weapons.

https://sy.usembassy.gov/security-message-u-s-citizens-travel-warning-
syria
/

"Tactics of ISIS, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, and other violent extremist groups include the use of suicide bombers, kidnapping, small and heavy arms, improvised explosive devices, and chemical weapons."




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, April 16, 2018 3:31 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
kpo

AND THEN there's the US State Department warning about ISIS and affiliated groups using chemical weapons.


"But ISIS are just as bad as the Syrian government."

Is that your defense, lol. Yeah, we're already bombing ISIS, moonbeam.

Or are you suggesting that, although the Syrian regime has carried out over two dozen other chemical attacks, it may not have carried out this one?

That's a pretty laughable position...

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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