REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

That Uplifting Tweet You Just Shared? A Russian Troll Sent It

POSTED BY: CAPTAINCRUNCH
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 03:03
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Monday, November 25, 2019 4:34 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/russia-troll-2
020-election-interference-twitter-916482/

People keep misrepresenting what Russian Trolls do and just what Russian election "meddling" was and likely will be, so here's a good primer:

"That Uplifting Tweet You Just Shared? A Russian Troll Sent It
Here’s what Russia’s 2020 disinformation operations look like, according to two experts on social media and propaganda.

Internet trolls don’t troll. Not the professionals at least. Professional trolls don’t go on social media to antagonize liberals or belittle conservatives. They are not narrow minded, drunk or angry. They don’t lack basic English language skills. They certainly aren’t “somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds,” as the president once put it. Your stereotypical trolls do exist on social media, but the amateurs aren’t a threat to Western democracy.
Professional trolls, on the other hand, are the tip of the spear in the new digital, ideological battleground. To combat the threat they pose, we must first understand them — and take them seriously.
On August 22, 2019, @IamTyraJackson received almost 290,000 likes on Twitter for a single tweet. Put in perspective, the typical tweet President Trump sends to his 67 million followers gets about 100,000 likes. That viral tweet by @IamTyraJackson was innocent: an uplifting pair of images of former pro football player Warrick Dunn and a description of his inspiring charity work building houses for single mothers. For an anonymous account that had only existed for only a few months, “Tyra” knew her audience well. Warrick’s former coach, Tony Dungy, retweeted it, as did the rapper and producer Chuck D. Hundreds of thousands of real users viewed Tyra’s tweet and connected with its message. For “Tyra,” however, inspiring messages like this were a tool for a very different purpose.

The purpose of the Tyra account, we believe, was not to spread heartwarming messages to Americans. Rather, the tweet about Warrick Dunn was really a Trojan horse to gain followers in a larger plan by a foreign adversary. We think this because we believe @IamTyraJackson was an account operated by the successors to Russia’s Internet Research Agency (IRA). Special Counsel Robert Mueller indicted the IRA for waging a massive information war during the 2016 U.S. election. Since then, the IRA seems to have been subsumed into Russia’s Federal News Agency, but its work continues. In the case of @IamTyraJackson, the IRA’s goal was two-fold: Grow an audience in part through heartwarming, inspiring messages, and use that following to spread messages promoting division, distrust, and doubt.

We’ve spent the past two years studying online disinformation and building a deep understanding of Russia’s strategy, tactics, and impact. Working from data Twitter has publicly released, we’ve read Russian tweets until our eyes bled. Looking at a range of behavioral signals, we have begun to develop procedures to identify disinformation campaigns and have worked with Twitter to suspend accounts. In the process we’ve shared what we’ve learned with people making a difference, both in and out of government. We have experienced a range of emotions studying what the IRA has produced, from disgust at their overt racism to amusement at their sometimes self-reflective humor. Mostly, however, we’ve been impressed.
Professional trolls are good at their job. They have studied us. They understand how to harness our biases (and hashtags) for their own purposes. They know what pressure points to push and how best to drive us to distrust our neighbors. The professionals know you catch more flies with honey. They don’t go to social media looking for a fight; they go looking for new best friends. And they have found them.
Disinformation operations aren’t typically fake news or outright lies. Disinformation is most often simply spin. Spin is hard to spot and easy to believe, especially if you are already inclined to do so. While the rest of the world learned how to conduct a modern disinformation campaign from the Russians, it is from the world of public relations and advertising that the IRA learned their craft. To appreciate the influence and potential of Russian disinformation, we need to view them less as Boris and Natasha and more like Don Draper.

As good marketers, professional trolls manipulate our emotions subtly. In fall 2018, for example, a Russian account we identified called @PoliteMelanie re-crafted an old urban legend, tweeting: “My cousin is studying sociology in university. Last week she and her classmates polled over 1,000 conservative Christians. ‘What would you do if you discovered that your child was a homo sapiens?’ 55% said they would disown them and force them to leave their home.” This tweet, which suggested conservative Christians are not only homophobic but also ignorant, was subtle enough to not feel overtly hateful, but was also aimed directly at multiple cultural stress points, driving a wedge at the point where religiosity and ideology meet. The tweet was also wildly successful, receiving more than 90,000 retweets and nearly 300,000 likes.

This tweet didn’t seek to anger conservative Christians or to provoke Trump supporters. She wasn’t even talking to them. Melanie’s 20,000 followers, painstakingly built, weren’t from #MAGA America (Russia has other accounts targeting them). Rather, Melanie’s audience was made up of educated, urban, left-wing Americans harboring a touch of self-righteousness. She wasn’t selling her audience a candidate or a position — she was selling an emotion. Melanie was selling disgust. The Russians know that, in political warfare, disgust is a more powerful tool than anger. Anger drives people to the polls; disgust drives countries apart.
Accounts like @IamTyraJackson have continued @PoliteMelanie’s work. Professional disinformation isn’t spread by the account you disagree with — quite the opposite. Effective disinformation is embedded in an account you agree with. The professionals don’t push you away, they pull you toward them. While tweeting uplifting messages about Warrick Dunn’s real-life charity work, Tyra, and several accounts we associated with her, also distributed messages consistent with past Russian disinformation. Importantly, they highlighted issues of race and gender inequality. A tweet about Brock Turner’s Stanford rape case received 15,000 likes. Another about police targeting black citizens in Las Vegas was liked more than 100,000 times. Here is what makes disinformation so difficult to discuss: while these tweets point to valid issues of concern — issues that have been central to important social movements like Black Lives Matter and #MeToo — they are framed to serve Russia’s interests in undermining Americans’ trust in our institutions.

These accounts also harness the goodwill they’ve built by engaging in these communities for specific political ends. Consistent with past Russian activity, they attacked moderate politicians as a method of bolstering more polarizing candidates. Recently, Vice President Biden has been the most frequent target of this strategy, as seen in dozens of tweets such as, “Joe Biden is damaging Obama’s legacy with his racism and stupidity!” and “Joe Biden doesn’t deserve our votes!”
The quality of Russia’s work has been honed over several years and millions of social media posts. They have appeared on Instagram, Stitcher, Reddit, Google+, Tumblr, Medium, Vine, Meetup, and even Pokémon Go, demonstrating not only a nihilistic creativity, but also a ruthless efficiency in volume of production. The IRA has been called a “troll farm,” but they are undoubtedly a factory.
While persona like Melanie and Tyra were important to Russian efforts, they were ultimately just tools, interchangeable parts constructed for a specific audience. When shut down, they were quickly replaced by other free-to-create, anonymous accounts. The factory doesn’t stop. They attack issues from both sides, attempting to drive mainstream viewpoints in polar and extreme directions.
In a free society, we must accept that bad actors will try to take advantage of our openness. But we need to learn to question our own and others’ biases on social media. We need to teach — to individuals of all ages — that we shouldn’t simply believe or repost anonymous users because they used the same hashtag we did, and neither should we accuse them of being a Russian bot simply because we disagree with their perspective. We need to teach digital civility. It will not only weaken foreign efforts, but it will also help us better engage online with our neighbors, especially the ones we disagree with.

Russian disinformation is not just about President Trump or the 2016 presidential election. Did they work to get Trump elected? Yes, diligently. Our research has shown how Russia strategically employed social media to build support on the right for Trump and lower voter turnout on the left for Clinton. But the IRA was not created to collude with the Trump campaign. They existed well before Trump rode down that escalator and announced his candidacy, and we assume they will exist in some form well after he is gone. Russia’s goals are to further widen existing divisions in the American public and decrease our faith and trust in institutions that help maintain a strong democracy. If we focus only on the past or future, we will not be prepared for the present. It’s not about election 2016 or 2020.

The IRA generated more social media content in the year following the 2016 election than the year before it. They also moved their office into a bigger building with room to expand. Their work was never just about elections. Rather, the IRA encourages us to vilify our neighbor and amplify our differences because, if we grow incapable of compromising, there can be no meaningful democracy. Russia has dug in for a long campaign. So far, we’re helping them win.
Darren Linvill is an associate professor of communication at Clemson. His work explores state-affiliated disinformation campaigns and the strategies and tactics employed on social media. Patrick Warren is an associate professor of economics at Clemson. Dr. Warren’s research focuses on the operation of organizations in the economy such as for-profit and non-profit firms, bureaucracies, political parties, armies, and propaganda bureaus."


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Monday, November 25, 2019 5:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Professional trolls, on the other hand, are the tip of the spear in the new digital, ideological battleground.
(Assertion without evidence)

To combat the threat
(Assumption without evidence)

That viral tweet by @IamTyraJackson was innocent: an uplifting pair of images of former pro football player Warrick Dunn and a description of his inspiring charity work building houses for single mothers.
(Was it fake?)

inspiring messages like this were a tool for a very different purpose.
(Assertion without evidence)

... we believe...
we believe...
seems to ...
we think...
disinformation...
Distrust...
spin...
manipulate our emotions... (Be afraid. Be very afraid)

Importantly, they highlighted issues of race and gender inequality. (Hmmm, sounds like the entire slate of Dem candidates)


... while these tweets point to valid issues of concern — issues that have been central to important social movements like Black Lives Matter and #MeToo — they are framed to serve Russia’s interests in undermining Americans’ trust in our institutions... (So don't believe anything bad about our government or media?)


... Recently, Vice President Biden(vote for Biden)

The quality of Russia’s work has been honed over several years and millions of social media posts. They have appeared on Instagram, Stitcher, Reddit, Google+, Tumblr, Medium, Vine, Meetup, and even Pokémon Go, demonstrating not only a nihilistic creativity, but also a ruthless efficiency in volume of production.
(Facts? Figures?)

... they are undoubtedly ... (Undoubtedly?)

They attack issues from both sides, attempting to drive mainstream viewpoints in polar and extreme directions. (Sounds like the DNC)

But we need to learn to question our own and others’ biases on social media. We need to teach — to individuals of all ages — that we shouldn’t simply believe or repost anonymous users because they used the same hashtag we did, and neither should we accuse them of being a Russian bot simply because we disagree with their perspective. (Great! When are you going to file that advice?)


We need to teach digital civility... (And some people spend here should start practicing it)

... after he is gone... (Which is why I've been saying STOP FOCUSING ON IDENTITY POLITICS. STOP FOCUSING ON TRUMP. STOP FOCUSING ON RUSSIA. WHAT WE NEED TO BE SKIING OURSELVES IS "WHAT ARE AMERICA'S INTERESTS?")

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Monday, November 25, 2019 5:54 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


My point being, in case you missed it, is that we should be making all of this spin not only ineffective but irrelevant.

If you keep focusing on highly emotional but pointless topics and ignoring important things, you'll just get shoved into the washing machine and wind up not knowing which way is up.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Monday, November 25, 2019 8:09 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK




Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 12:05 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:


If you keep focusing on highly emotional but pointless topics and ignoring important things


HOCUS POCUS, DO NOT FOCUS...eh?

Yanno, some of us can focus on more than one things at a time. It's this new thing called "multi-tasking". You should try it.

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 12:24 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:


As good marketers, professional trolls manipulate our emotions subtly. In fall 2018, for example, a Russian account we identified called @PoliteMelanie re-crafted an old urban legend, tweeting: “My cousin is studying sociology in university. Last week she and her classmates polled over 1,000 conservative Christians. ‘What would you do if you discovered that your child was a homo sapiens?’ 55% said they would disown them and force them to leave their home.” This tweet, which suggested conservative Christians are not only homophobic but also ignorant, was subtle enough to not feel overtly hateful, but was also aimed directly at multiple cultural stress points, driving a wedge at the point where religiosity and ideology meet. The tweet was also wildly successful, receiving more than 90,000 retweets and nearly 300,000 likes.




Yeah, this one isn't false...back when kiddo was in school she was in several plays and hubbs -being the joker he is- decided to tell several people that his kid is a "thespian". At LEAST 3/4 of them looked shocked and asked if he was ok with that. As in, they were serious.

A few years ago we had a Native American sticker on the back of our car (hubbs' mom had told him he was N.A. since he was born but 23nMe says she lied her Trump supporting ass off...I know, SHOCKER) and one day a guy saw it and asked hubbs about it...

"Yer part Indian??"

"Yeah...?"

"How come you don't act like it?"

"You mean run around whooping and scalping people????????"




I shit you not. Jokes on them, he prolly would if he could




Some of these people are amazing in that they make it through a week with all their fingers and toes






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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 1:37 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:


As good marketers, professional trolls manipulate our emotions subtly. In fall 2018, for example, a Russian account we identified called @PoliteMelanie re-crafted an old urban legend, tweeting: “My cousin is studying sociology in university. Last week she and her classmates polled over 1,000 conservative Christians. ‘What would you do if you discovered that your child was a homo sapiens?’ 55% said they would disown them and force them to leave their home.” This tweet, which suggested conservative Christians are not only homophobic but also ignorant, was subtle enough to not feel overtly hateful, but was also aimed directly at multiple cultural stress points, driving a wedge at the point where religiosity and ideology meet. The tweet was also wildly successful, receiving more than 90,000 retweets and nearly 300,000 likes.




Yeah, this one isn't false...back when kiddo was in school she was in several plays and hubbs -being the joker he is- decided to tell several people that his kid is a "thespian". At LEAST 3/4 of them looked shocked and asked if he was ok with that. As in, they were serious.

A few years ago we had a Native American sticker on the back of our car (hubbs' mom had told him he was N.A. since he was born but 23nMe says she lied her Trump supporting ass off...I know, SHOCKER) and one day a guy saw it and asked hubbs about it...

"Yer part Indian??"

"Yeah...?"

"How come you don't act like it?"

"You mean run around whooping and scalping people????????"




I shit you not. Jokes on them, he prolly would if he could




Some of these people are amazing in that they make it through a week with all their fingers and toes










Hey CC,

Nilbog just outed herself as one of the Russian social engineers from your fairy tale.


Sounds like her mother-in-law is a regular Elizabeth Warren too.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 1:46 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hey everybody. I got an idea.

How about you dumb shits get the fuck off of Facebook and Twitter and then you won't be manipulated by Russian Bogeymen.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 2:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I thought about what that article is really saying. What is it trying to get people to DO?

Well, it says .. dial back on the nastiness against conservatives. Rein in those ultra-liberal-socialist views. Learn to love - or at least tolerate- your political opponents.


Because ... wait for it ...RUSSIA!!!.

Now, why would a left-leaning magazine like Rolling Stone suddenly want its readers to make nice with deplorables, and based on such a flimsy scare tactic as "RUSSIA!" ?

Is it because they realize that three whole years of howling nonsense and insults (oh, not just the underlings but high-level politicians and the M$M) have not moved the needle against Trump, supporters but have only slowly eroded their own position and alienated the middle? That, taking a page from the marketing playbook that they CLAIM to hate, they have realized, too late, that they have won no flies by spewing bile, that their candidates are worth shit, and they hope to start oozing honey instead?

Does this just reveal the weakness of war-mongering never-Trumpers?

Yep, I think so.

*****

Wow, you just can't trust anyone, can you? Not even Rolling Stone.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 3:48 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Thespian.....I'm a Pisces myself!

Ha! Funniest shit I've ever heard.
Some folk are ignorant and morally bankrupt, what a combination. But what burns my toast are those that should know better.


SGG


Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:


As good marketers, professional trolls manipulate our emotions subtly. In fall 2018, for example, a Russian account we identified called @PoliteMelanie re-crafted an old urban legend, tweeting: “My cousin is studying sociology in university. Last week she and her classmates polled over 1,000 conservative Christians. ‘What would you do if you discovered that your child was a homo sapiens?’ 55% said they would disown them and force them to leave their home.” This tweet, which suggested conservative Christians are not only homophobic but also ignorant, was subtle enough to not feel overtly hateful, but was also aimed directly at multiple cultural stress points, driving a wedge at the point where religiosity and ideology meet. The tweet was also wildly successful, receiving more than 90,000 retweets and nearly 300,000 likes.




Yeah, this one isn't false...back when kiddo was in school she was in several plays and hubbs -being the joker he is- decided to tell several people that his kid is a "thespian". At LEAST 3/4 of them looked shocked and asked if he was ok with that. As in, they were serious.

A few years ago we had a Native American sticker on the back of our car (hubbs' mom had told him he was N.A. since he was born but 23nMe says she lied her Trump supporting ass off...I know, SHOCKER) and one day a guy saw it and asked hubbs about it...

"Yer part Indian??"

"Yeah...?"

"How come you don't act like it?"

"You mean run around whooping and scalping people????????"




I shit you not. Jokes on them, he prolly would if he could




Some of these people are amazing in that they make it through a week with all their fingers and toes






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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 8:49 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I thought about what that article is really saying. What is it trying to get people to DO?


I love it.

SIGBUTTHURT: "The article is not saying what it's saying... it's saying what I say it's saying."



So I guess none of us that disagree with you are saying what we're saying? It makes sense that you would think that since you spend so much time trying to tell everyone that what we're thinking is wrong and "here's how you should think." Authoritarian much?

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 9:14 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


SIG: You don't seem to understand this is an article in The Rolling Stone, and not a dissertation. As such, all of those numbers and charts and pages and pages of evidence you are so desperate for, will not be included. Sorry, toots, magazines have reasons. Maybe wait for the book?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Professional trolls, on the other hand, are the tip of the spear in the new digital, ideological battleground.
(Assertion without evidence)

To combat the threat
(Assumption without evidence)


The article is evidence of their research. If you just don't want to believe them, fine, that's a troll's prerogative.

We’ve spent the past two years studying online disinformation and building a deep understanding of Russia’s strategy, tactics, and impact. Working from data Twitter has publicly released, we’ve read Russian tweets until our eyes bled. Looking at a range of behavioral signals, we have begun to develop procedures to identify disinformation campaigns and have worked with Twitter to suspend accounts. In the process we’ve shared what we’ve learned with people making a difference, both in and out of government. We have experienced a range of emotions studying what the IRA has produced, from disgust at their overt racism to amusement at their sometimes self-reflective humor. Mostly, however, we’ve been impressed.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
inspiring messages like this were a tool for a very different purpose.
(Assertion without evidence)


The evidence was their research, summarized to fit the medium. Do you read magazines?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
... we believe...
we believe...
seems to ...
we think...
disinformation...
Distrust...
spin...
manipulate our emotions... (Be afraid. Be very afraid)


Yes, it is good and healthy to fear Russia's manipulations of our elections. Glad you agree.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Importantly, they highlighted issues of race and gender inequality. (Hmmm, sounds like the entire slate of Dem candidates)


For someone of your liberal history, slagging on the Dems is a tell. Just thought you should know.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
... while these tweets point to valid issues of concern — issues that have been central to important social movements like Black Lives Matter and #MeToo — they are framed to serve Russia’s interests in undermining Americans’ trust in our institutions... (So don't believe anything bad about our government or media?)


No, don't believe anything bad about Santa Claus. You're brain's a mess btw.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
... Recently, Vice President Biden(vote for Biden)


So, no one can mention a candidate's name without it being propaganda?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The quality of Russia’s work has been honed over several years and millions of social media posts. They have appeared on Instagram, Stitcher, Reddit, Google+, Tumblr, Medium, Vine, Meetup, and even Pokémon Go, demonstrating not only a nihilistic creativity, but also a ruthless efficiency in volume of production.
(Facts? Figures?)


Google is free. You have plenty of time, a quick bit of research will show you all the data you can handle. I'm guessing you know this already though. Actually, it's not a guess at this point.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
... they are undoubtedly ... (Undoubtedly?)


Not doubted or questioned; accepted: undoubted evidence.
un·doubt'ed·ly adv.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
They attack issues from both sides, attempting to drive mainstream viewpoints in polar and extreme directions. (Sounds like the DNC)


The DNC is an American institution. Russia isn't. See the difference?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But we need to learn to question our own and others’ biases on social media. We need to teach — to individuals of all ages — that we shouldn’t simply believe or repost anonymous users because they used the same hashtag we did, and neither should we accuse them of being a Russian bot simply because we disagree with their perspective. (Great! When are you going to file that advice?)


Your bias is you are pro-Russian and anti-American. Change that and some people here might believe differently about you. You really bring it on yourself. We've been over this a million times.

I would say if there was a different admin in Russia, that would change our relations with them greatly. As it is, Putin has proven to be a bit of a devil and a completely untrustworthy world partner. He's obviously got a hot poker up his @ss when it comes to Ukraine. Maybe once he removes it we can talk.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
We need to teach digital civility... (And some people spend here should start practicing it)

... after he is gone... (Which is why I've been saying STOP FOCUSING ON IDENTITY POLITICS. STOP FOCUSING ON TRUMP. STOP FOCUSING ON RUSSIA. WHAT WE NEED TO BE SKIING OURSELVES IS "WHAT ARE AMERICA'S INTERESTS?")



We need to be skiing? I guess it is winter...

"We need to teach digital civility..."
Ok, you owe me a keyboard! You are in the top 3 most vulgar posters on this board - fact.
And how about Trump? Maybe you should tweet that to him?

SIG: "WHAT ARE AMERICA'S INTERESTS?
Do you think one of America's interests should be keeping Russia out of our Elections?

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 9:42 AM

THG


The Russian government interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election with the goal of harming the campaign of Hillary Clinton, boosting the candidacy of Donald Trump, and increasing political and social discord in the United States.

The Internet Research Agency, based in Saint Petersburg and described as a troll farm, created thousands of social media accounts that purported to be Americans supporting radical political groups, and planned or promoted events in support of Trump and against Clinton; they reached millions of social media users between 2013 and 2017. Fabricated articles and disinformation were spread from Russian government-controlled media, and promoted on social media. Additionally, computer hackers affiliated with the Russian military intelligence service (GRU) infiltrated information systems of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC), and Clinton campaign officials, notably chairman John Podesta, and publicly released stolen files and emails through DCLeaks, Guccifer 2.0 and WikiLeaks during the election campaign. Finally, several individuals connected to Russia contacted various Trump campaign associates, offering business opportunities to the Trump Organization and damaging information on Clinton. Russian government officials have denied involvement in any of the hacks or leaks.

Russian interference activities triggered strong statements from American intelligence agencies, a direct warning by then-U.S. President Barack Obama to Russian President Vladimir Putin, renewed economic sanctions against Russia, closures of Russian diplomatic facilities and expulsion of their staff. The Senate and House Intelligence Committees conducted their own investigations into the matter. Trump denied the interference had occurred, contending that it was a "hoax" perpetrated by Democrats to explain Clinton's loss. He dismissed FBI Director James Comey in part over his investigation of Russian meddling.

Russian attempts to interfere in the election were first disclosed publicly by members of the United States Congress on September 22, 2016, confirmed by United States intelligence agencies on October 7, 2016, and further detailed by the Director of National Intelligence office in January 2017. According to U.S. intelligence agencies, the operation was ordered directly by Putin. The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) opened the Crossfire Hurricane investigation of Russian interference on July 31, 2016, including a special focus on links between Trump associates and Russian officials and suspected coordination between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. The FBI's work was taken over in May 2017 by former FBI director Robert Mueller, who led a Special Counsel investigation until March 2019.[1] Mueller concluded that Russian interference was "sweeping and systematic" and "violated U.S. criminal law", and he indicted twenty-six Russian citizens and three Russian organizations. The investigation also led to indictments and convictions of Trump campaign officials and associated Americans, for unrelated charges. The Special Counsel's report, made public on April 18, 2019, examined numerous contacts between the Trump campaign and Russian officials but concluded that there was insufficient evidence to bring any conspiracy or coordination charges against Trump or his associates.

T

Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 10:18 AM

THG


Great stuff regarding the Steele Dossier.
T

Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.


Mueller Investigation Did Not Follow The Money On Trump


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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 10:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well CC, I guess I hit a sore spot.

The article is saying exactly what I said it's saying, you just didn't read it very carefully

So, here is th article with a little sentence/ paragraph rearrangement:

After having pounded on the Russian boogeyman* in all eleven paragraphs, explaining how devilishly clever they are by winning people over with niceness, they get to the heart of their article about what "we must" do:

Quote:
In a free society, we must accept that bad actors will try to take advantage of our openness. But we need to learn to question our own and others’ biases on social media. We need to teach — to individuals of all ages — that we shouldn’t simply believe or repost anonymous users because they used the same hashtag we did, and neither should we accuse them of being a Russian bot simply because we disagree with their perspective. We need to teach digital civility. It will not only weaken foreign efforts, but it will also help us better engage online with our neighbors, especially the ones we disagree with.
We must fight the IRA by resisting the urge to
Quote:
further widen existing divisions in the American public and decrease our faith and trust in institutions that help maintain a strong democracy
and not to
Quote:
vilify our neighbor and amplify our differences
and not
Quote:
[attack] moderate politicians [like Joe Biden] as a method of bolstering more polarizing candidates.
Gee, CC, they're sending you the message but you refuse to get the memo! Better step in line because ... RUSSIA!!!

*****

*Just as an aside, for a group that claims to have been studying Russian disinformation for "years", you'd think that they'd at least cite their results published in a paper or presented in conference; or sprinkle a few numbers into their article; or at least explain their methodology.

Instead, they begin their article by citing probably the worst example one can come up with: an account which tweeted an uplifting story about a real event, which they (apparently) ASSUME is Russian - not because the account engaged in any nefarious activity or passed on any fake news or even riled people up, but (again, apparently) simply because it was anonymous. AND NICE.

Gee, now we should be afraid of tweets that share real, nice images???

Seriously????

Wow, if that's all it takes to be "Russian" according to them, no wonder they see Russians behind every tree and shrub! Maybe they have a more credible process for detecting "Russian-ess", because if they do they might want to explain that in more detail. It would give their premise a shred of credibility when (so far) it has none.

But back to my original point: These are USELESS discussions. This whole issue (Russians in social media) would go away if we stopped talking about it and stopped reacting emotionally/gullibly, and instead focused on real issues of real importance.

Or, let me put it to you THIS way ... Russia is doing pretty well despite pressure from the west because they spend all of their time thinking about what is good for Russia and reaching out - even to nations which have killed their soldiers, such as Turkey and Israel- by being reliable partners and sticking to their agreements; and acting in measured and thoughtful ways, and not wasting their revenues on budget-busting wars and hundreds of military installations abroad.

How about it, CC? How about we discuss the paths by which the USA can do BETTER, instead of constantly focusing on bullshit? Because, yanno .... RUSSIA!






-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 10:33 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I'm just glad that Hunter Thompson isn't around to see what has happened to the Rolling Stone.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 1:27 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm just glad that Hunter Thompson isn't around to see what has happened to the Rolling Stone.


Once again, missing the point and focusing on some silly little quip.

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 1:30 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


No.

What I'm focused on is Clown World.

You morons jump from narrative to narrative, and now you're following a very dangerous one.


It wasn't enough that you were able to go around lording your college "educations" and your virtue signalling and actually believing that you were superior to people that you don't agree with in every single way, but now you're being told that any opinion that you don't agree with is a Russian seed that was planted in the brains of people who think you're full of shit.



You pod people are fucking scary.






Democrats need to be, and WILL be destroyed in 2020.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 1:33 PM

THG


T

Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.



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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 1:38 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


You type so much and say so little.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
After having pounded on the Russian boogeyman* in all eleven paragraphs...


It's actually an article about Russia, so...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
In a free society, we must accept that bad actors will try to take advantage of our openness. But we need to learn to question our own and others’ biases on social media. We need to teach — to individuals of all ages — that we shouldn’t simply believe or repost anonymous users because they used the same hashtag we did, and neither should we accuse them of being a Russian bot simply because we disagree with their perspective. We need to teach digital civility. It will not only weaken foreign efforts, but it will also help us better engage online with our neighbors, especially the ones we disagree with.
We must fight the IRA by resisting the urge to
Quote:
further widen existing divisions in the American public and decrease our faith and trust in institutions that help maintain a strong democracy
and not to
Quote:
vilify our neighbor and amplify our differences
and not
Quote:
[attack] moderate politicians [like Joe Biden] as a method of bolstering more polarizing candidates.
Gee, CC, they're sending you the message but you refuse to get the memo! Better step in line because ... RUSSIA!!!


Exactly, advice from experts and not you - easy choice.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
*Just as an aside, for a group that claims to have been studying Russian disinformation for "years", you'd think that they'd at least cite their results published in a paper or presented in conference; or sprinkle a few numbers into their article; or at least explain their methodology.


Share their methodology with everyone??? That's incredibly naive. I didn't think you were that simple.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Instead, they begin their article by citing probably the worst example one can come up with: an account which tweeted an uplifting story about a real event, which they (apparently) ASSUME is Russian - not because the account engaged in any nefarious activity or passed on any fake news or even riled people up, but (again, apparently) simply because it was anonymous.


^Pretty embarrassing how you missed the whole point.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Wow, if that's all it takes to be "Russian" according to them, no wonder they see Russians behind every tree and shrub! Maybe they have a more credible process for detecting "Russian-ess", because if they do they might want to explain that in more detail. It would give their premise a shred of credibility when (so far) it has none.


Share their methodology publicly so the IRA can morph and change their approach? Stupid that.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But back to my original point: These are USELESS discussions. This whole issue (Russians in social media) would go away if we stopped talking about it and stopped reacting emotionally/gullibly, and instead focused on real issues of real importance.


Do you have any evidence for that?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Or, let me put it to you THIS way ... Russia is doing pretty well despite pressure from the west because they spend all of their time thinking about what is good for Russia and reaching out - even to nations which have killed their soldiers, such as Turkey and Israel- by being reliable partners and sticking to their agreements; and acting in measured and thoughtful ways, and not wasting their revenues on budget-busting wars and hundreds of military installations abroad.


Using proxy fighters to wage war is pretty economical, I'll give them that. So is using Ruski nerds to hack computer systems. It's brilliant and pretty, literally bullet proof. We should do it! F*ck nukes.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
How about it, CC? How about we discuss the paths by which the USA can do BETTER, instead of constantly focusing on bullshit? Because, yanno .... RUSSIA!


I tried and you failed. I asked if you thought it was in America's best interest to make sure Russia didn't hack any of our elections. I guess got my answer.

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 2:20 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


How about for starters you stop misusing the term "hack". You'd think that you idiots learned all you know about hacking from the movie Hackers.


If there was any validity at all to any of your bogus claims, or those from the Rolling Stone, it would be labeled "influencing".

But that doesn't sound nearly as nefarious as hacking elections, does it?




Bunch of useful idiots around here.



Republicans are going to win the presidency, expand their senate powers, likely take the house back and put at least one more supreme court justice from their side between 2020 and 2024.


I'm not of the mind that this is a great idea. I've always stated that we shouldn't have too much power from either side. But you clowns are behaving so utterly insane that you'd almost think everyone in the Legacy Media that's riling you up 24/7 are actually working for the GOP.

Keep this bullshit up and you're going to get record voter turnout and every single poll in existence says that if there is record turnout it's going to be a bloodbath for the Democrats next year.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 3:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
https://www.davidpuente.it/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Linvill_War
ren_TrollFactory.pdf

Abstract
We document methods employed by Russia’s Internet Research Agency to influence the political agenda of the United States from June 19, 2015 to December 31, 2017. Using the Social Studio social media listening platform, we downloaded tweets from handles identified by Twitter as being associated with the Agency.
Ruh roh - either this is circular logic (we developed the rules Twitter used to identify Agency tweets, and Twitter then identified them, and we used those so identified), or they used Twitter's unverified methodology.
Quote:
We identified five handle categories: right troll, left troll, news feed, hashtag gamer, and fearmonger. Within each type, accounts were used consistently, but the behavior across types was radically different, both in terms of “normal” daily behavior and in how they responded to external events. In this sense, the Internet Research Agency’s agenda-building effort was “industrial”--mass produced from a system of interchangeable parts, where each class of part fulfilled a specialized function.
Nowhere in the paper do they describe how these "Russians" are identified.

Another paper is behind a paywall, and I'm not going to pay for more of this dreck.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S074756321930202X?vi
a%3Dihub

Other than 2 papers - and only one of them published in a journal - I found nothing else on google scholar.

Their 'study' meets none of the criteria I expect from legitimate research - SPECIFICALLY a detailed description of their methodology. I wonder if these are CIA-recruited academics, hired to be one of many stuffers of the research database, to stuff it with an agenda.

And yeah - looking at their 'research' - such as it is - no wonder they didn't either link or reference it in the article.





A billion flies eat shit.

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 5:15 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


Sounds like her mother-in-law is a regular Elizabeth Warren too.



Except Warren ACTUALLY HAD an N.A. ancestor and my TRUMP SUPPORTING MOTHER IN LAW DOESN'T.

I know you don't have the cognitive function to differentiate the two because of all the cult-washing, so I've spelled that out for you.




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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 5:23 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Nowhere in the paper do they describe how these "Russians" are identified.



I've noticed on several sites they either use very short names that are meant to make you think they are regular and familiar, like "Peg", "Jill", or "Ben", "Tom", or use manipulative usernames like "Voice of Reason" "Uncommon sense" "Light in the tunnel".


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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 5:26 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


Sounds like her mother-in-law is a regular Elizabeth Warren too.



Except Warren ACTUALLY HAD an N.A. ancestor and my TRUMP SUPPORTING MOTHER IN LAW DOESN'T.

I know you don't have the cognitive function to differentiate the two because of all the cult-washing, so I've spelled that out for you.





Ummmmm... No. She didn't.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 5:39 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


Sounds like her mother-in-law is a regular Elizabeth Warren too.



Except Warren ACTUALLY HAD an N.A. ancestor and my TRUMP SUPPORTING MOTHER IN LAW DOESN'T.

I know you don't have the cognitive function to differentiate the two because of all the cult-washing, so I've spelled that out for you.





Ummmmm... No. She didn't.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
And her DNA says so. She has less NA DNA than most Americans.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 5:50 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
You type so much and say so little.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
After having pounded on the Russian boogeyman* in all eleven paragraphs...


It's actually an article about Russia, so...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
In a free society, we must accept that bad actors will try to take advantage of our openness. But we need to learn to question our own and others’ biases on social media. We need to teach — to individuals of all ages — that we shouldn’t simply believe or repost anonymous users because they used the same hashtag we did, and neither should we accuse them of being a Russian bot simply because we disagree with their perspective. We need to teach digital civility. It will not only weaken foreign efforts, but it will also help us better engage online with our neighbors, especially the ones we disagree with.
We must fight the IRA by resisting the urge to
Quote:
further widen existing divisions in the American public and decrease our faith and trust in institutions that help maintain a strong democracy
and not to
Quote:
vilify our neighbor and amplify our differences
and not
Quote:
[attack] moderate politicians [like Joe Biden] as a method of bolstering more polarizing candidates.
Gee, CC, they're sending you the message but you refuse to get the memo! Better step in line because ... RUSSIA!!!


Exactly, advice from experts and not you - easy choice.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
*Just as an aside, for a group that claims to have been studying Russian disinformation for "years", you'd think that they'd at least cite their results published in a paper or presented in conference; or sprinkle a few numbers into their article; or at least explain their methodology.


Share their methodology with everyone??? That's incredibly naive. I didn't think you were that simple.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Instead, they begin their article by citing probably the worst example one can come up with: an account which tweeted an uplifting story about a real event, which they (apparently) ASSUME is Russian - not because the account engaged in any nefarious activity or passed on any fake news or even riled people up, but (again, apparently) simply because it was anonymous.


^Pretty embarrassing how you missed the whole point.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Wow, if that's all it takes to be "Russian" according to them, no wonder they see Russians behind every tree and shrub! Maybe they have a more credible process for detecting "Russian-ess", because if they do they might want to explain that in more detail. It would give their premise a shred of credibility when (so far) it has none.


Share their methodology publicly so the IRA can morph and change their approach? Stupid that.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But back to my original point: These are USELESS discussions. This whole issue (Russians in social media) would go away if we stopped talking about it and stopped reacting emotionally/gullibly, and instead focused on real issues of real importance.


Do you have any evidence for that?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Or, let me put it to you THIS way ... Russia is doing pretty well despite pressure from the west because they spend all of their time thinking about what is good for Russia and reaching out - even to nations which have killed their soldiers, such as Turkey and Israel- by being reliable partners and sticking to their agreements; and acting in measured and thoughtful ways, and not wasting their revenues on budget-busting wars and hundreds of military installations abroad.


Using proxy fighters to wage war is pretty economical, I'll give them that. So is using Ruski nerds to hack computer systems. It's brilliant and pretty, literally bullet proof. We should do it! F*ck nukes.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
How about it, CC? How about we discuss the paths by which the USA can do BETTER, instead of constantly focusing on bullshit? Because, yanno .... RUSSIA!


I tried and you failed. I asked if you thought it was in America's best interest to make sure Russia didn't hack any of our elections. I guess got my answer.
Ok, let's start from the bottom up. I missed your question, but if you had ANY knowledge of my posting history here, you'd know that I've advocated - over and over and over again - HAND COUNTED PAPER BALLOTS- and I've done that ever since GWB was selected by the Supreme Court and revelations by Black Box Voting on how easy it is to hack electronic voting and electronic vote counting. There is evidence that the GOP did, literally, "hack the vote" in Florida, revealed when a consortium of newspapers paid for a total state recount and found that the one district that used elecronic voting swung the vote by several thousand to Gore on recount. There is evidence that the Florida vote was just a dress rehearsal for the next vote hack, when six states exhibited extreme differences between exit polls and ballot counts- differences that couldn;t be explained by statistical flukes or by historical examples. The fact that this occurred only in swing states, only in areas with electronic voting, and that the error ALWAYS swung in favor of GWB was deemed by statisticians to be so far beyond the realm of probability that the only logical conclusion was fraud.

So, given all that, do you really think that I would advocate that ANYone be able to "hack" our elections?

Really?

So ... any response to that?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 7:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


"I'm 1/1024 something-not-quite-identifiable-that-isn't-anglo-european!

Must be Wompum! I make recipe for Pow Wow Chow that less Native American than Taco Bell for Mexicans. How, white man."

How, indeed.

How ridiculously inappropriate and insulting to an entire people who actually have and continue to struggle today. Just another racist Lefty, who focuses on nothing but race all of the time, then lies about her own for 30 years to make it ahead in the world.



2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2 = 1024

That means that either her great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great Grandmother or her great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great Grandfather boned somebody that wasn't from Europe.



Fucking gross. Even grosser that some people still claim that there isn't a serious problem with what she did.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 7:55 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Eh - I personally give her a pass on that. It's possible it was a family legend, passed down, accepted as truth, but never verified. And indeed, from back when, there really wasn't any way to verify that except through an extensive records search. I know there are family legends in my family - about where it's from, what is its history - that I've accepted as truth, but never verified. ... especially not genetically, since one's DNA profile doesn't actually belong to you, and can be accessed by any agency claiming a need to know, by insurance companies, researchers, etc. So now in this day and age, I've opted to take those stories on faith. Perhaps she did as well, until pushed to test those stories out.

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Tuesday, November 26, 2019 11:31 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK



She wasn't innocently using it as a family legend. She used it to get preferential treatment all throughout her life, and what's worse, everybody let her get away with it until Trump came around.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 27, 2019 12:11 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well ... until somebody goes back and polls a significant number of her family and asks 'What did they used to say about Indian blood back in the 60's?' it's all just conjecture.

I know a number of people here who claim Indian blood - and they might as well have some. But there's a certain cachet here out west I think to that, and as long as you aren't 'tribal' and stuck on tribal lands, there's no downside to it. OTOH one of my African American friends in the NE used to talk about having some Cherokee blood way back when before it was cool. That would have been +/-15 yrs of when Warren could have been hearing about having Indian blood. But, when it comes to my friend, Amer Indians don't admit blacks into tribes (apparently they have the same 'one drop of black' rule that whites do) so there was no casino action in the offing for her. And at the time the Black community was still in the mode of claiming African heritage with pride. So there was no upside and some downside to the claim. And one of my Hispanic coworkers here claims to trace his lineage back to ... idk ... my eyes rolled in my head whenever he expounded on it, but it might have been the Borges family in España. Or something. Whatever high royalty mucky-muck they were supposed to be.

Considering Warren comes from Oklahoma - out west - territory, there could easily be a family legend about it.

Like I said, there's a lot of family legends that go around, that people believe, or at least claim they believe. It's not entirely out of the realm, and there's too little in the way of EVIDENCE that she was saying something she knew to be untrue.

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Wednesday, November 27, 2019 12:17 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Well good thing that we have DNA tests so that old white ladies who nobody would ever mistake for anything other than an old white lady can't go around claiming minority status to get that sweet, sweet double dip into victim-culture (and all of the benefits that come with it) that the Liberal elites have set up for all of the actual minority women in America today.



Somebody should have tested her lily-white ass years ago.


This wasn't just schoolyard bragging to friends. She got herself into positions that she wouldn't have otherwise gotten herself into by playing make believe.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 27, 2019 12:39 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


It could have all been a conveniently sure way of laying claim to a family myth that everyone used else to say with a shrug, or even a wink. It could have been a complete fabrication. Or it could have been her god's truth understanding of what she was told. Until somebody goes back to dig deep (before all first-hand accounts of her siblings, aunts, and uncles have died), we'll never know.

There are far worse things to be umbrageous about. Just my opinion, of course.

And - aside from Gabbard - if you're at all curious about who I trust more between Sanders and Warren - it's Sanders - if only because he's been saying the same thing far longer. He doesn't sway in the breeze of opinion polls.

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Wednesday, November 27, 2019 1:23 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Wednesday, November 27, 2019 1:45 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Meanwhile, while Clemson University says Twitter is all infested, Duke University says it doesn't affect people's attitudes.


https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/11/20/1906420116

Assessing the Russian Internet Research Agency’s impact on the political attitudes and behaviors of American Twitter users in late 2017

"Together, these findings suggest that Russian trolls might have failed to sow discord because they mostly interacted with those who were already highly polarized."

(the entire paper is available online)
(the principal author has an extensive publishing history in statistical population analysis)



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Wednesday, November 27, 2019 3:03 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
It could have all been a conveniently sure way of laying claim to a family myth that everyone used else to say with a shrug, or even a wink. It could have been a complete fabrication. Or it could have been her god's truth understanding of what she was told. Until somebody goes back to dig deep (before all first-hand accounts of her siblings, aunts, and uncles have died), we'll never know.

There are far worse things to be umbrageous about. Just my opinion, of course.

And - aside from Gabbard - if you're at all curious about who I trust more between Sanders and Warren - it's Sanders - if only because he's been saying the same thing far longer. He doesn't sway in the breeze of opinion polls.



Umbrageous. I had to look that one up.


It's my opinion that went far beyond umbrageous. I do believe that is the opinion of a Native tribe or two who didn't find it very amusing either.

Those quotas are bullshit in the first place, but they certainly were not made for some privileged white woman to take advantage of. It's bad enough that she had the audacity to claim Native heritage to advance her professional career without a shred of evidence in the first place, but it's appalling that places like Harvard let her get away with it and didn't throw out her application immediately upon first seeing her.




I agree with you on the Warren vs. Bernie question, not even taking her lying about her heritage into account. She's completely fake. Her entire platform today is at odds with her history. She came into the Democratic Primaries with over $10 Million of big donor money rolled over from her previous campaign.

Bernie is a wack job, but he's not saying anything today that he didn't say 30 years ago.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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