Why not now fight for a animated firefly show? by Ads

Yeah cash is the biggest issue(or only issue for that matter) but the cash could easily be there for an animated series if enough people got behind it.

There are allot of firefly fans, but maybe not enough to encourage a network to spend millions making a new show or movie. From what I know about how tv works, networks need a certain amout of viewers to keep advertisers happy so that the advertises will pay enough money so that the shows expenses are covered and the network makes a profit. Firefly fans tried there hardest to convince them that we can reach this qouta but we didn't pull it off.

But if every fan got behind an animated series it would be a different story. The expenses are suddenly much lower so the networks need less money from advertises to cover expenses. If the advertises don't have to pay as much then they are not expecting as many viewers for what they are paying for. And if they don't need as many viewers then maybe this number is closer to the amount of firefly fans that will be watching it if it is made animated.

Also a a secondary consideration, even if firefly's fans and desire for the show somehow multiplied like crazy overnight, getting the aging actors back together would be very difficult. Irrelivent if it's animated.

Of course it would have to kick ass! What I am proposing is that the show is as close to the original as possible, just animated. Think about what they could do also in terms of space combat or in regards to River kicking ass. You can do allot with animation and do it allot cheaper then if you had to pull it off normally.(EDIT: I thin you meant the animation quality, sorry :] Yeah south park style obviously would not be appropriate but at the same time it doesn't have to be awsome 3d animation either. As technology gets better it get's easier and easier to make cool animations and for a show as popular as firefly is then getting enough funding to make it cool shouldn't be to hard...........assuming the fans got behind such an idea.)

What matters to me more than the actors or the format is the story and the way it is told. Text can tell a story and do it well, I am an avid reader, but firefly was born in my mind and on the screen and watching the characters as they evolve(and kick ass) is important to me now. Regardless, text would only be alright to me if it came from Joss. There a many talented authors out there who do Firefly justice but unless you pick a favorite and decide his/hers is the version you are going to bank on and make that cannon then whats the point. I like my stories to have a definitive beggining, middle and end.

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Saturday, February 7, 2009 12:38 PM

PARTICIPANT

Joss prefers Dollhouse, he's not really into Firefly anymore and gets a big boner for Eliza Dushuku

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Sunday, February 8, 2009 1:30 AM

Yeah I can understand that, I get a boner from her too. Maybe we can just annoy him enough or something so he can sell off some ideas to someone who still does give a crap :)

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Sunday, February 8, 2009 6:36 PM

In the early 90's it seemed the fashion to take every half-decent popular comic series and turn it into an animated series.

They would kid-ify serious and mature themes, degrading them into an embarassing mass of animated nonsense.

I've seen too many good properties brutilized by animation, starting with TMNT. A humourous but grim and violent independant comic turned into an immature farce.

I'd rather see Firefly die than be turned into an animated show.

The only exception to the rule here is Batman TAS, circa 1992. The majority of the episodes in the first season or two somehow managed to appeal to children AND adults without losing any integrity.

Except for the episodes with Robin.

Let's see...what cute and loveable alien 'mascot' would they create to humourously menace the crew?

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Monday, February 9, 2009 6:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:
They will never get the actors back together to make a show or movie again, lets face facts.

Facts.

Joss Whedon and the actors love Firefly/Serenity. See commentary on the Collector's Edition etc. And they love working together.

Joss and the actors want to do more Serenity. See various comments by them at conventions and in interviews.

The actors are not too old etc. See Summer in Terminator on Friday the 13th on Fox. 8/7 c

Nathan and Adam and most of the other actors have done animated film work.

Don't count Joss and the actors out. They are getting more and more popular every day.

The more people see of our Big Darn Heroes work (and that includes Joss) the more they want to see of our Big Darn Heroes work and that leads them back to Firefly/Serenity.

And don't worry about them being too busy. If Steven Speilberg, George Lucas and Harrison Ford can get together to make Indiana Jones whatever...so can Joss and the crew.

Look at what Joss did with Dr. Horrible. Funded it himself. Called up actors. Filmed it in a week. http://drhorrible.com

Have you read the Serenity comic books? I think they'd be pretty cool animated with the actors reading/acting the words.

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 12:04 AM

SIGMANUNKI

Why not an animated series? Just look at the bomb that was the Star Trek animated series just after the TOS got cancelled (even for its day). And that had fans, etc, etc, etc, behind it. Sorry, but just because it's "our" series doesn't make it any different. This is just a bad idea.

FF had a certain air to it. That's something that the comics certainly didn't convey and the movie barely came close to what FF was. In other words, lets just let the thing die in peace. Flogging a dead horse just to something is hardly the way to honour such a great show.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 12:17 AM

Okay fair enough, I could be wrong. I suppose that anything is possible and that there might be a chance that the show can start again with the actors, but every day that go's by this is becoming less and less likely. And allot of days have gone by.

Don't get me wrong, I would love it if the show got resurected normally. In fact, I would probably creme my pants. But I also gave up on hoping for this to happen a while ago because there just isn't enough to justify me getting my hopes up and believing it could still happen. It is just to painful. It might be possible, but I think it is more likely that fans could successfully push for an animated show as opposed to the normal one.

You might be right schism. It might stink badly. But wouldn't you like it if someone made it so you can decide that it stinks badly instead of judging it based on what might happen? You never know, it might be so kick ass that you change your mind.

I would hate for such a show to be made and then it sucks. Firefly deserves better than that. But at the same time I would love it if they made it and it was awsome. It is a gamble but not really a bad one. Worst case sceinario it sucks and I just don't watch it. Best case sceinario it rocks and I am as devouted to watching it as I was the original. Nothing that ever happens could ever damage the reputation of the original show anyway, it is just that good. And having that sort of attitude would be like if you didn't want the movie serenity being made just because it was not in episodic format and thus might not be as good as the show(which it wasn't but it was still good).

I will be forever gratefull that the movie serenity was made and at least gave the story some sort of closure but when it comes down to it I would much rather they have made a series exactly the same as Firefly, just animated. The main reason people I have talked to dont like this idea is because it doesnt use the original actors, but I don't understand it. I would even go as far as prefering animated over the movie even if it didn't use the same actors. I love the actors, they made the show awsome. But I love the dialog,story and the way it was told even more. I am a firefly fan, not a firefly groupie.

I only recently found out about the comic book but I havn't read them yet. They might be the last new firefly I ever get to expierience so I am going to save them. I would prefer to watch it on my tv, but I will take it whatever way I can get it.

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:39 AM

================
You might be right schism. It might stink badly. But wouldn't you like it if someone made it so you can decide that it stinks badly instead of judging it based on what might happen? You never know, it might be so kick ass that you change your mind.
===============

Respecting your opinion, I have to add that it might stink so badly that it gives Firefly/Serenity a bad name to the unenlightened, just as the TMNT made all Mirage-Comic-TMNT fans look childish and lame back in the day.

Then there will REALLY be no salvaging a show, if it becomes synonymous with a lame kids show, and being proud of one's fandom will by a little more synonymous with an adult saying they love Dora the Explorer for its "hidden depths".

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:56 AM

I doubt this makes a different as to how others view my post, but I'm an animation major. (2D, we're talkin old school)

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:
Okay fair enough, I could be wrong. I suppose that anything is possible and that there might be a chance that the show can start again with the actors, but every day that go's by this is becoming less and less likely. And allot of days have gone by.

Agreed, we're at this point where the television series isn't likely unless it is more of a spinoff, focusing on one or a handful of the original cast. Live action wise, a movie is more likely. Everyone's pretty much moved on in terms of career. Yes, I'm sure the cast would love to jump right back into their roles and pick up where they left off, but a lot of them are already bound to shows or other projects that don't allow for a filming of Firefly Season 2.

Quote:

Don't get me wrong, I would love it if the show got resurected normally. In fact, I would probably creme my pants.

There's about five of us in my all girls dorm that would not only creme our pants, but would spaz out, racing through the streets of San Francisco wearing knitted hats and taking turns dancing with a stuffed triceratops named Wash (Well his names Hoban but who wants to be called Hoban?).

Quote:
but when it comes down to it I would much rather they have made a series exactly the same as Firefly, just animated. The main reason people I have talked to dont like this idea is because it doesnt use the original actors, but I don't understand it. I would even go as far as prefering animated over the movie even if it didn't use the same actors. I love the actors, they made the show awsome. But I love the dialog,story and the way it was told even more. I am a firefly fan, not a firefly groupie.

This is where I feel Animation can be the correct medium for this franchise. The movie was was awesome stuff, but so much, so many little nuances in the characters and their story were left out due to the format of movies. And comics while great still can't quite capture the heart and soul of Firefly. As mentioned before, getting the cast all back together on TV would be probably impossible.

But there's a possibility that you could get everyone to voice act.

Voice acting would fit schedules more readily that normal filming for an hour long television show (filming I believe takes about a week for one episode). Filming takes sets, special effects, lighting, wardrobe, ect. Voice acting Nathan can come in to the soundbox in his pajamas and play Mal.

A lot of people are probably afraid the characters would just look like caricatures of the cast, that's not necessarily true. The cast would be referenced heavily for character design. Nathan and the gang could even be filmed one day for reference footage for the animators (A technique commonly used). Having them filmed in costume, acting out their character's mannerisms would aid the animator's ability to render the characters true to form, capturing nuances. The way Mal's coat goes back when he draws his gun, how River moves through a walk cycle, the way Kaylee gives that coy little smile, it could all be captured in footage and translated.

While it generally takes longer to animate an episode than film one live action (one month), animation has come a long way in terms of being able to be detailed and realistic. With a strong 2D style and the right CG effects applies we could see worlds and scenes that would have been impossible to see with a live action TV budget. The opulence of Sihnon, the English regale of Londinuim. Hover cars, enormous cities, blending of culture, everything could be a much grander scale, but with the same intimacy of the crew we're used to. Animation would just make the verse larger, with more possibilities in terms of settings and action (no stunt doubles).

Style is debatable. Obviously not paper cut Southpark or stop motion Robot Chicken, however I personally think a pseudo-anime 2D style would work with the premise of Firefly really well. Anime translates futuristic settings as well as oriental and western themes very well, and it would bring the asian flair out more (which aside from the chinese dialog, I felt was underrepresented in the show). This show pops up in mentioning once in a great while and people never react to it but I think the show Avatar has a style that Firefly could be modeled in. (Don't roll your eyes) It may be a kid's show, but the style is very detailed and has a nice hand drawn organic feel to it. It's not blocky or overly stylized with crazy spiky hair. Hair moves, fur moves, clothing moves with steps and wind. Clothing is detailed and specific for each character. Bodies are not super anime thin or perfect, there's no androgyny, womenfolk look like womenfolk, menfolk look like menfolk, there are curves and muscles and everything else. Landscapes are lifelike, deserts look sweltering, fertile land looks lush. There's a steampunk vibe with the villains of the show and their CG renditions of mechanized flying ships look seamless with the rest of the animation. Things that are ugly, dark and frightening give you that shiver up your spine. I can totally see Serenity in a 2D verse like that, and the possibilities are endless with the animation medium. While Joss would be sad he wasn't able to bring about live action, I think he would have a field day with this.

As for a home for the show, Scifi might be privy to something of this sort, though USA might as well. Obviously I'm not talking about the means of money, getting the funding to get it off of the ground. I'm just pointing out hwo it could work very well and appease 99.9% of everyone who loves Firefly.

Whew.. getting off my soapbox now....

Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:33 AM

Schism, I fully understand where you are coming from and you are right, what you are saying could happen. But I still wouldn't care for two main reasons. I don't really care about what non-browncoates think about the show and I am personally at the point now where if it is all or nothing then I would take the risk. In fact I would probably still be happy if it bombed and destroyed any possible chance at more episodes. At least then I will be able to stop torturing myself into thinking firefly will come back to me. I am big buffy and angel fan also and firefly was about a billion times better so if I got to see that story evolve like buffy's got the chance too then, well, nothing I could type here would adequitly explain how happy I would be(exept for maybe what ash wrote).

"There's about five of us in my all girls dorm that would not only creme our pants, but would spaz out, racing through the streets of San Francisco wearing knitted hats and taking turns dancing with a stuffed triceratops named Wash (Well his names Hoban but who wants to be called Hoban?)."

Lol. Heres a firefly fan after my own heart :)

Ash, you rule. In fact, you are exactly the type of fan I was hoping would stumble onto this thread. I don't need to comment on your reasoning. It is flawless and much more convincing then mine. I recently started a facebook cause/group to try and generate interest for this idea but I think you should go on and make one yourself. You can sell this concept better then I can so if you want to take the time to do it I will delete my group and join yours(I dont really have many members yet anyway). If you don't want to do this or don't want to use facebook I would like to ask if you please wouldn't mind letting me copy your post onto my group and maybe even helping me make a better group description then the one I came up with.

Let me know what you think. I don't know if this idea would ever take off but what I do know is that I had completely given up hope until the idea of it going animated was told to me. Now I at least think there is a chance again. However slim.

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:51 AM

RALLEM

I would like to see an animated series of firefly.

http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 4:02 AM

BRIGLAD

Put me in the "Yes" Column.

The lovely Ash said it best in her post above so I won't go repeating things.

Let's just say that if done well (like the early Batman/Dark Knight Animated series) It would make Me an ecstatic Browncoat.

If done poorly, I'll still be happy because... I'm a Browncoat.

Nuff' Said

Brian

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:12 AM

My only concession here would be if the animated series was specific to a sci-fi or other 'specialty' channel.

Otherwise it would be made to fit mainstream consumption (aka - kid-ified).

But if it was on a sci-fi channel or something similar, it would be made for an older audience.

Remember, mainstream North America don't yet embrace animation as anything but a medium for children.

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:19 AM

ZEEK

I could only see this working on something like the SciFi channel or maybe Spike. It would need to be on cable and on a channel that it's devoted to children's programming. However, if it was animated well and targeted to adults then I would be onboard in a heartbeat.

I gotta say I don't really like hearing animation takes a month per episode though. 12 episodes a year? :-(

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:45 AM

They could always have groups of animators split across several episodes at one time.

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:08 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Let's see...what cute and loveable alien 'mascot' would they create to humourously menace the crew?

A Fox, of course.

In the words of Jayne...
"Saw that comin."

-F

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:12 AM

RALLEM

I'm not sure I would like a cute alien pet as a mascot.

http://www.swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I could only see this working on something like the SciFi channel or maybe Spike. It would need to be on cable and on a channel that it's devoted to children's programming. However, if it was animated well and targeted to adults then I would be onboard in a heartbeat.

I gotta say I don't really like hearing animation takes a month per episode though. 12 episodes a year? :-(

Seeing as I'm not there yet, I do know that alot of episodes are done far in advance before the premeire, that way by the time the first season ends they are well on their way animating the middle of the second season (Generally speaking most animated series have a guranteed run of three seasons, some that had a large audience can go on much longer, like the Simpsons, Spongebob, Family Guy, Fairly Oddparents ect. You might be bummed out about the three season median but hey, we didn't even get one full season, three's pretty damn shiny with a little over 20 eps a piece, with some awesome 2 hr TV movie wrapping everything up or leading into comics or something). A lot of stuff here in the states has the storyboarding, voice acting, reference footage and some key animation done here, and the in betweens and coloring is sent off to Korea to a secondary animation studio for cost cutting. There it's all put together, then sent back.

Schism I agree with the kidafying part. Firefly is in no way a show that could be easily boiled down for kids. (How the hell do you explain Inara without giving her a trite position or getting rid of her completely?)

Ads, I don't have a facebook, but you're welcome to use my post.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I could only see this working on something like the SciFi channel or maybe Spike. It would need to be on cable and on a channel that it's devoted to children's programming. However, if it was animated well and targeted to adults then I would be onboard in a heartbeat.

I gotta say I don't really like hearing animation takes a month per episode though. 12 episodes a year? :-(

Seeing as I'm not there yet, I do know that alot of episodes are done far in advance before the premeire, that way by the time the first season ends they are well on their way animating the middle of the second season (Generally speaking most animated series have a guranteed run of three seasons, some that had a large audience can go on much longer, like the Simpsons, Spongebob, Family Guy, Fairly Oddparents ect. You might be bummed out about the three season median but hey, we didn't even get one full season, three's pretty damn shiny with a little over 20 eps a piece, with some awesome 2 hr TV movie wrapping everything up or leading into comics or something). A lot of stuff here in the states has the storyboarding, voice acting, reference footage and some key animation done here, and the in betweens and coloring is sent off to Korea to a secondary animation studio for cost cutting. There it's all put together, then sent back.

Schism I agree with the kidafying part. Firefly is in no way a show that could be easily boiled down for kids. (How the hell do you explain Inara without giving her a trite position or getting rid of her completely?)

Ads, I don't have a facebook, but you're welcome to use my post.

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
Let's see...what cute and loveable alien 'mascot' would they create to humourously menace the crew?

A Fox, of course.

In the words of Jayne...
"Saw that comin."

-F

I gave River a cat for her familiar, it works pretty well.

Then again.. there is Shan-shan, Inara's pet tiger witht the
ironical disposition of a retriever...

Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:01 AM

Weird double post.

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Tuesday, February 10, 2009 5:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:
I only recently found out about the comic book but I havn't read them yet. They might be the last new firefly I ever get to expierience so I am going to save them.

You do know Joss is planning to do one about Book's past.

Might have a hard time finding the original comic book Serenity: Those Left Behind. 3-issue 9 collectible covers.

The graphic novels are always available.
Serenity: Those Left Behind the Graphic Novel

Serenity: Better Days Comic Books (2008)
Issue 1 of 3.

Serenity: Better Days Graphic Novel

Serenity/Firefly comic Serenity: The Other Half Online Free!
http://www.myspace.com/darkhorsepresents?issuenum=13&storynum=1

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:05 AM

Thanks heaps Ash. I am going to discect your post and turn it into the new group description. You will of course be given credit.

Quote:
You do know Joss is planning to do one about Book's past.

Might have a hard time finding the original comic book Serenity: Those Left Behind. 3-issue 9 collectible covers.

Yeah I did see something about books past getting revealed. I probably wont wait to read that one. I always wanted to know what the deal with him was.

Not too worried if I can't find all the comics on firefly in the shops. Those I don't the internet should provide.

I would like to ask also. I havn't even looked into the comics. Are they written by Joss or any of the other original writers of the show?

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:15 AM

Written by Joss Whedon and Brett Mathews.
Official cannon.
They're quite good - just finished them.
'Those Left Behind' takes place between the end of the series and the start of the movie. It's good, but waaay too short.
'Better Days' is longer and better IMHO, however I'm not sure where in the continuity it takes place.

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:47 AM

Sweet, look forward to reading them. Probably won't be for a looooong time though. I havn't actually re-watched an episode since the movie came out and don't plan to for at least ten years, maybe longer. I want to forget as much as possible so that when I do watch them again I can enjoy them even more. And I will then top it off by reading, watching or listening to anything new that has been created in that time.

There will be a few exceptions though. Get diagnosed with a terminal illness, time to watch firefly to make me feel better. Show gets ressurected, time to watch firefly and get pshyched up for new episodes. That sort of thing :)

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:39 AM

RIPWASH

I gotta say . . . an animated series would be sweet. But I'd have my reservations. Some of what I love about Firefly is the interaction of the crew and that can only be done if they're all there in the same room at the same time. Voice acting is most often done with each actor separately and the "give and take" just isn't there when you're used to certain people playing off each other in a certain way. One of the other things I love about the show is Mal's reactions and facial expressions. I just think that would be extremely hard to mimic in animation. I completely agree that it should NOT be kiddified in any way, shape or form. The mascot thing reminds me too much of Slimer on the animated Ghostbusters.

I'm a new fan of the show and new to the site. I'm trying my darndest to tell people I know about it, too. I watched the series and the movie in the span of a week and was extremely saddened when the movie ended. Heck, not only did my favorite character die ("I'm a leaf on the wind"), but just knowing there would be no more. I was hoping the box office was solid, but it wasn't. Great reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, though. Very solid. I'm hoping that Nathan Fillion gets real popular and he can help rally Firefly back to life :o)

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
I gotta say . . . an animated series would be sweet. But I'd have my reservations. Some of what I love about Firefly is the interaction of the crew and that can only be done if they're all there in the same room at the same time. Voice acting is most often done with each actor separately and the "give and take" just isn't there when you're used to certain people playing off each other in a certain way. One of the other things I love about the show is Mal's reactions and facial expressions. I just think that would be extremely hard to mimic in animation.

I would like to ask you something if you don't mind. I swear I am not trying to be confrontational or disrespect your opinion. I really just want try and better understand any reservations the fans have and what would be the best way to try and help them to overlook it.

I agree with what you wrote about the quality in which the characters express themselves. And for the sake of argument lets say that the animated characters don't express themselves anywhere near as much as their real life counterparts. Is this something you would be able to overlook if it meant the show would continue?

You clearly like the show and I feel for you. I was sad when I realised there would be no more episodes or movies too. And I am glad to hear you think animation would be sweet. But why even though you are sad and would like more firefly do you even mention the negative aspects of animation instead of just going, What? More firefly you say. Count me in!

Again, you would really be helping me out to let me in on your thinking.

This idea makes perfect sense to me and although I can understand why some fans would be hesitant I am really baffled as to why it doesn't have instant support from everyone who is at least as in love with the story and dialog as I am. I am a big firefly fan but I am far from the biggest. There are even people on facebook who like the idea of an animated show but don't join a cause dedicated to making this idea a reality.

If I was River it would be alright because I would just read everyones mind and use my super big brain to work out a way to convince everyone to get behind this. Since I only have a regular sized brain though I have to do this the hard way.

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:50 AM

RIPWASH

I'll try to explain adequately, so bear with me.

It would be my assumption that fans of the show fell in love with it for many reasons, not the least of which is the way it all came together and presented itself overall. Any deviation from that would have to "prove" itself to the fans first and foremost. We like Mal Reynolds because of the manner in which Nathan Fillion portrayed him. The same goes for the rest of the cast. We like the chemistry between Mal and Zoe, Zoe and Wash, Inara and Mal and any other combination. We liked the look and the feel of the series and movie.

Now take into account that any deviation from that fromat and you could get something mediocre or downright disasterous at worst. The series would have to "prove" itself as being a viable option for those yearning for more of the 'Verse. Different actors would add their spin to a character or you'd have someone pretending to be Nathan Fillion as Mal Reynolds and it would just be an imitation, not the real deal. Does that make sense?

Getting all the actors on board to do the voice work? That's a different story. But as I said . . . put 'em in the same room so they can play off each other and have that chemistry shine through the vocal performances.

Then the animation would have to be right. I mean there are a lot of different styles of animation and if it didn't look right or have the right feel then I may not watch it.

So in short . . . would I like to see an animated series? Absolutely!
Would I like to see an animated series that was poorly done? No. And that's why I say I'd have my reservations and would want to see what was being done first.

I would fight for an animated show, but I'd also fight for it to be done correctly.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:50 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Why not an animated series? Just look at the bomb that was the Star Trek animated series just after the TOS got cancelled (even for its day). And that had fans, etc, etc, etc, behind it. Sorry, but just because it's "our" series doesn't make it any different. This is just a bad idea.

That's some seriously faulty logic. The animated Trek was bad, 'cause it was a bad show. This does not mean that everything animated will be bad.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:41 AM

Why are we assuming again that any Firefly cartoon spin-off would automatically have to have the maturity level toned down? I missed that explanation somewhere.

I mean, heck, I'm pretty sure networks handle cartoon nudity a hell of a lot better than live action stuff. If Trash had run on Fox, you can bet there would have been censor fuzzing all over the place. Cartoon backside? Not so much.

And besides, the "cartoons are for kids mentality" died in the 1990s. Adult Swim, all the anime imports... Lead to a resurgence of cartoons marketed to teenagers and older even on the big networks.

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Thursday, February 12, 2009 1:21 AM

Good response RIPWASH, thanks. Your post makes absolute sense and I would go as far too say that you have assumed correctly and these are the main reasons why allot of fans would find it difficult to even consider discussing an animated approach. I also agree that it would help if an animated show could prove itself as a viable option. Unfortunatly, unless the fans get behind the idea of such an option first then no network would even consider making some animated material to put our reservations at ease. But that brings me to your last line.

Quote:

I would fight for an animated show, but I'd also fight for it to be done correctly.

Agreed 1000%. In my opinion I can't see any other option that would possibly bring back more firefly episodes so I would fight tooth and nail to bring an animated version of the show about. But I wouldn't JUST fight for an animated version. I am not proposing that fans just blindly get behind the idea of animation. I am proposing that they voice their support of an animated show as well as voicing the terms under which they would like to see such a show. If this idea generated enough support then anyone who actually considered giving us what we want would also have to take into account how we want it to be given to us, or else what would be the point of them making it.

Sure, there are still no guarantee's that they would make it perfect. But I can give you one guarantee. If we do nothing, then we will get nothing. But, if we do something, well we might get something.

I don't think the right thing to say is something is better than nothing.

But what I would say is no risk, no reward. Possibly no BIG reward.

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Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:59 AM

I wanted to ask also.

If any of you guys have facebook and would like to lend a hand plugging this concept on the sites fan group discussion boards then you would be doing this cause a big favor.

Also, even though the group is too small at the moment to need admins I wouldn't mind adding some now anyway as long as they are willing to put the effort in and try and help get some interest in this idea.

Let me know if anyone is interested.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 1:56 AM

Alrighty I have just learned some interesting information that I thought was worth mentioning. On the Facebook page supporting this idea a person who is currently directing/producing sci fi animation wrote an interesting message. Aparently firefly going animated has already been proposed by their animation company a few years back. They say they could have also secured financial backing for this idea but it never happened because there was such a negative reaction from the fans that it scared away investors.

I have already expressed my love for the story of firefly and it's characters and the reasons why I personally would be happy with animation if it kept that story going. I am a little upset that this hasn't happened earlier but I don't really blame the fans. A few years ago there was probably still some legitimate hope that firefly could be resurected the way it should have been. Now however this is not as likely.

GB Hajim wrote this on the groups wall.

"I'll tell you all what: For every 10,000 fans you get on board that are committed to an animated series, I'll get my company to do animation mock ups of each of the characters. You all can choose which ones through a poll or however you like. I've put some characters in the Photo gallery here so you can see the quality of animation we are doing."

This group hasn't even been on facebook for a week and already there is a company willing to again spend time and money on firefly animation if fans are interested.

Imagine what would happen if every firefly fan in the world just said, stuff it! And got behind this idea.

Ash's reasoning was the best on this discussion. But what Brain said however,

Quote:
Put me in the "Yes" Column.

The lovely Ash said it best in her post above so I won't go repeating things.

Let's just say that if done well (like the early Batman/Dark Knight Animated series) It would make Me an ecstatic Browncoat.

If done poorly, I'll still be happy because... I'm a Browncoat.

Nuff' Said

Brian

This is all the reasoning I think should be needed.

Ultimatly though, Rallem is a model of exactly what every firefly fan would at least have to do to make this dream into a reality. And I bet it didn't even take one minute.

Quote:
I would like to see an animated series of firefly.

If you have facebook and want to see more firefly then the groups name is; Firefly, The Animated Series. If you can accept animation then just joining the group shows your support. But if you join the group and also use facebook to 'voice' your support then it will show you mean it and then the world will really take us seriously.

If you don't like the idea then you would be doing the rest of us browncoats who do want to see more firefly a big favor by not fighting it. Besides, if someone did make it you know you would at least check it out

Peace, Adam.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Why are we assuming again that any Firefly cartoon spin-off would automatically have to have the maturity level toned down? I missed that explanation somewhere.

I mean, heck, I'm pretty sure networks handle cartoon nudity a hell of a lot better than live action stuff. If Trash had run on Fox, you can bet there would have been censor fuzzing all over the place. Cartoon backside? Not so much.

And besides, the "cartoons are for kids mentality" died in the 1990s. Adult Swim, all the anime imports... Lead to a resurgence of cartoons marketed to teenagers and older even on the big networks.

You're right.
That is true.
It IS a different world out there.
But I've seen so many good properties destroyed utterly back in my day that I just can't shake my wariness and mistrust.

*spoken like a browncoat*

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 6:43 AM

MAKINGVISIBLE

I'm digging the "Star Wars Clone Wars" new animated series. A sleek, stylized show - yet with realistic backdrops - would work very well for Firefly. And I agree that the tone and writing could remain just as adult as the live-action version.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 3:20 PM

By the way. When I asked fellow browncoats not to fight against this idea I didn't mean don't make your concerns heard. We all have a right to voice our opinion and I respect everybodies.

I should clarify and ask that you please voice your opinions in a constructive manner. Same go's for people who are for this idea too.

I met one person on facebook who ignored my posts, TOLD me what my motives where, made out like they where speaking for everyone and what they want and then TOLD me not to push for this to happen and that I should just re-watch the original episodes like everyone else instead of hoping that one day I might be able to see new ones.

The only thing I took from her messages was that some fans hate animation as much as they love firefly and that they think everybody else should believe like they do.

If you want to come to the group and voice you objections for this idea then please do. We will respect your opinions if you respect ours.

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Thursday, February 19, 2009 2:33 AM

If you are not confident in animation and are worried that it won't do firefly justice then you are the fans we need the most supporting this idea. Without you there will not be total support and if it was made it will not be with as big a budget. Also, more importantly, we need you to ensure that whoever would take on this project does it properly. There is nothing like hundreds of thousands of die hard fans telling you how it should be done to make you know how to do something right.

A fan prompted me to do some reaserch into the Buffy animated series that never took off. Joss was more than happy to work in animation back then and not only was he eager to do so, but he was also prepared to put in the effort to make sure his work was done to his usual high standards. Apparently the only reason that it never took off was because it was considered too adult for childrens TV and animation was not quite suitable for the mainstream prime time slots. Nowadays however there are allot more options with various cable channels catoring to almost all styles and tastes. Translation, if he made firefly animation he would still make it for the adult fans and nowadays if an adult sci fi animated like cowboy bebop can find a home then firefly can also.

Optamisticly, it would likely get picked up by a netwrork willing to give Joss more creative control then the morons at other networks. If you thought fireflys dialog and story was good with the networks dumbing it down for mainstream zombies then imagine what it would be like unfiltered straight from Joss Whedon's mind himself. If thats not a fantasy worth fighting for then I don't know what is.

If you don't use facebook but can see the chance we have here and want to help us make it a reality then there is certainly still something you can do. Fans got Serenity without the use of facebook. I don't have the knowledge or resources to make web pages or petitions but other fans do. Anyone can go to forums anywhere and discuss this idea to try and get people behind it. The more people talking about it the more chance this could actually work.

For those who do have facebook then here is the link; http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=61221961583

If you join then leaving a message of support on the wall is a great way to show your commitment. If you have concerns then voicing them in the message boards is a constructive way to ensure that this would only be done if it is going to be done right.

We don't have to give up just yet.

If you can't walk, you crawl.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 3:03 AM

A quote from GB Hajim from Island Planet One Productions

"If we (fans) can prove that 30% of the fan base would be into an animated series, we (my company) could easily get the show to fly."

30%! Thats a cake walk. I wonder what would happen if 80% of the fans got behind it. Probably they would then be begging us to let them make an animated show catoring exactly to our excellent taste and high standards.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 6:04 AM

RIVER6213

An animated Firefly show would in time undermine, and then ruin the idea of the original Firefly.

-River

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Monday, March 2, 2009 6:12 AM

Disagreed. The comic books have already shown that Firefly doesn't need to be live action to still be engaging. And comic books are one step away from cartoons anyways.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 6:24 AM

RIVER6213

I find the comic books rather unappealing.

-River

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Monday, March 2, 2009 7:04 AM

I agree with River.

I was a bit let down by the comics.

I used to be a huge comics geek in the early to mid 90's (Batman and X-Men), but I sell my former self out by saying that the FF/Serenity comics are not good mediums.

The comic is a very visual medium. FF is a very visual show, but the visuals are only secondary to good writing and great characters. I found those two traits lacking in the comics. Moreso in 'Those Left Behind', but also in 'Better Days'.

If they focused on less dynamic art and more story-oriented dialogue, I'd be happy.

I mean, did you see that image where the Shepherd suddenly grew 12 inch pythons and slugged the captain? Yeah, in the show, in a slightly more realistic 'environment', that would not have been so.......dynamic.

This does not make me anti-FF/Serenity comics.
I would just like to see that storyteller's approach. Ever read the Watchmen, or 'V for Vendetta'? Yeah, the artwork kinda sucks (moreso in V), and it doesn't employ anything more than the repetitive succession of small rectagular comic frames, but by god they are some good stories.

Ultimately, if anything, I'd like to see official cannonized novels, perhaps with a few artist's renderings of key scenes thrown in.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 7:07 AM

Hmm. I liked them. Had the same kind of bantering humour that the series had and Better Days at least presented a new adventure with at least a decent premise. (It was very interesting to see the plans the crew made for their individual shares of the money. Those Left Behind, admittedly, was intended to just be backstory and filler space)

There are some character development plots that made me a little wary, but I have faith enough that later arcs will resolve them in a way that will remove the uneasiness.

It could be that a drowning person will grasp at any lifeline tossed to them, but there were honestly parts of the comics I enjoyed, so I don't think that's what my reaction was.

So that's my logic. If I can like the comic books, I would probably like a cartoon with the same tone and feel.

The look would have to be different, of course, because you don't often render cartoons to look straight out of a comic book. Though, in the comic books sometimes the characters were drawn with only a passing resemblance to the actors (especially in Those Left Behind, I feel like the artist got a better handle on what they look like in Better Days), so that may not be a bad thing.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 1:21 PM

I really did love the story of 'Better Days', don't get me wrong.
It would have been great to see it as an actual episode.

I still stand by my point, however.
There's a certain something that the series had that can't be brought back in comic form, or animated form.

Personally I'd rather lose something than see it done badly.

Besides, with novelizations you can get a level of character insight that you can't in comics, or even a tv show.

I am no big fan of that Steven Brurst novel "My Own Freedom" (or whatever it was called). It felt contrived, and his writing style was rather childish. HOWEVER there are two parts of it that I really did appreciate - insights into River's way of thinking, as well as Wash's own take on his piloting abilities. I really enjoyed those brief moments.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 1:23 PM

The comics are sort of a hit or miss in terms of being an example on how Firefly would translate well into a different medium. For starters, I'm not a huge fan of Those Left Behind. It's sort of like the people who worked on it really had to find their footing in translating Firefly into comic form. And while Better Days was a definite improvement and I loved a lot of things about it, certain parts are lacking. Particularly in the rendering of the BDHs, but then again I'm just not to entirely fond of the artist's style.

I think a better example of how a mature, whitty, high caliber animated show or movie would do the franchise justice would be to check out the Wonder Woman DVD that comes out tomorrow. I've pimped it a few times on this site but it's worthy of the praise. I was able to see the west coast premiere at Wondercon this last weekend and I (and a few hundred other people) was blown away at how great was. It's a pg-13 animated movie, and while some of the origins story was re-imagined and it's a broad audience it's not dumbed down or kiddified by any means. The animation is streamlined and the designs are simplified, but it's powerful work. Plus, you hear Nathan as Steve Trevor so you can get a feel for some BDH voice acting.

And there are people who don't care for comics books, or animation and just want to see the cast again on TV. Which trust me, if there was any indication the show could be resurrected just like that, this thread wouldn't be here because we'd all be celebrating, crossing our fingers, praying to the dear fluffy lord about it. We're just here to throw around ideas, concepts and opinions because it has the potential to be a viable medium. Animation has come a long way from steam boat willy, and adult geared animation is becoming widely embraced (i do believe both Fox and ABC have new animated shows on their lineups). I'm all for an animated show as long as it's properly handled (leaning more towards 2-d, but that's just me) and it has Joss' blessing as well as the gang on board.

Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash

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Monday, March 2, 2009 2:04 PM

You know, since you bring up character insight...

An aspect of other comic books that I haven't seen in the Serenity comics is the yellow rectangular internal monologue box. You know, that helps with the scene transitions, or depicts the characters thoughts in a more narrative manner than the usual thought bubble?

I'm thinking with A Shepherd's Tale, being that it's probably going to be from Book's POV mostly, we might actually get some of that. Which would be nice, it's true.

Comic books and books in general can do that, where a tv show/ cartoon couldn't.

But, of course, if we liked Firefly the TV series, we weren't missing the narrative/internal monologue that much. And I think it's not that a tvshow (animated or not) can't represent what characters are thinking, they just have to do things more visually. Remember that walk River takes through Serenity and we take through her head in Objects in Space? That was very fine cinematography. And that could be done in cartoons and in comic books... If we got artists and writers who could visuallize something like that. :)

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Monday, March 2, 2009 5:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TuJiaoZuo:
I think a better example of how a mature, whitty, high caliber animated show or movie would do the franchise justice would be to check out the Wonder Woman DVD that comes out tomorrow. I've pimped it a few times on this site but it's worthy of the praise. I was able to see the west coast premiere at Wondercon this last weekend and I (and a few hundred other people) was blown away at how great was. It's a pg-13 animated movie, and while some of the origins story was re-imagined and it's a broad audience it's not dumbed down or kiddified by any means. The animation is streamlined and the designs are simplified, but it's powerful work. Plus, you hear Nathan as Steve Trevor so you can get a feel for some BDH voice acting.

I'll be picking this up tomorrow.

Nathan Fillion - Col. Steve Trevor (voice)

http://www.amazon.com/Wonder-Woman-Two-Disc-Special-Digital/dp/B001LK8
SQ6/

http://www.amazon.com/Wonder-Woman-2009-Keri-Russell/dp/B001LK8SKW/

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Monday, March 2, 2009 5:21 PM

Ads,

Any company that wants to do Dr. Horrible Animation, Firefly Animation or Buffy Season 8 Animation or Angel Season 6 Animation, should get in touch with Joss Whedon's Talent Agent ( http://pro.imdb.com )
or Dark Horse Comics for Dr. Horrible, Serenity and Buffy and IDW for Angel.

Joss has already talked about doing things through subscription/donation/budgeting based on pre-sales. Propose to Joss to animate what is already written with the real actors and build from there.

Read Joss's interviews. Joss is planning/working on something. Whatever that is can be supplemented with animation.

Get in the door before Joss has someone shop for companies. Keep in mind, Joss has very high standards and also wants as much control of his babies as he can have. He had total control over Dr. Horrible. I think he liked that alot. Nothing quite like working for yourself.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 11:06 PM

Anonymous1,

The whole professional behind the scenes side of things isn't really my area. I am just doing my bit for us fans and hoping that we all get behind this so someone will consider giving us what we want. Whatever they have to do to make it a reality.

GB is very professional and also knows what he is talking about though so if you come onto facebook he might be the one to pose those sort of questions too. I dont think it really matters though. With heaps of fan support GB is likely just one of the companies that will be considered to make the show for us.

He is likely just showing interest early because he is also a fan and wants there to be more firefly episodes as much as we do. A good quality to have in a person making new Firefly episodes if you ask me. His industry expierience and knowledge is evident and he is basically just giving us all a guidline as to what is required of us to make this show a reality.

GB's latest post on facebook.

"If we can get 50,000 dedicated Firefly animation fans together by this summer, I am confident we could see the show by Fall 2010. If we can't hit those kind of numbers, then the "live action or nothing" crowd wins."

There are over 120,000 fans on the main Firefly facebook fan page and thats not even all of the Firefly fans on facebook. Not to mention that the true number of Firefly fans in the world is much greater still. Watching Mal tackle the Blue Sun Corp or laughing my ass off at Jayne again is so close I can almost taste it.

It is good that we can all come here and discuss this but now that this idea actually has a clear target and is being presented to us as a very realistic option to getting more Firefly episodes I am compelled to try a couple more ways to try and get my feelings across.

One is to ask you to forget everything you know or are worried about and think back. Think back to the first time you heard the hero of canton song and saw Wash's reaction to it. Can you honestly tell me any show since has made you laugh as hard as that. I would give anything to expierience entertainment like that again.

Or think about how much potential the story had and how interested you where back then to watch it unfold. The Blue sun and its mysteries. The alliance and the possibility of Mal and the crew having a part in taking them down. The hands of blue guys and watching Mal take them on. The new 'verse characters that would have been introduced and who would no doubt have been as interesting as all the other chartacters. The romance that probably would have developed between Mal and Inara and the complications that would have followed. The relationship between Simon and Kaylee and the funny complications that would have followed that also. All of this and so much more can and WILL be done in an animated show if we all get behind it.

Another way to express how I feel is this,

*Gets on his knees*

Please my fellow Browncoats I am begging you to give Firefly animation a chance and get behind it 100%. We all just want to see more quality episodes of Firefly and that dream is a very possible reality. I know that if we all get behind it they will make it well. We won't let them make it unless Joss is on board and Joss won't let it be crapola. We all know thats not his style.

Sorry, I just want to see more quality Firefly episodes so badly that my dignity is the least of the things I would give up if it helps this come to be.

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Tuesday, March 3, 2009 5:23 PM