If you could have changed anything about Angel (the show not the character) what would it be? by MrBlueSun

ANGELUS ARCANUM

If you could have changed anything about Angel (the show not the character) what would it be?

POSTED BY: MRBLUESUN
UPDATED: Sunday, December 24, 2006 08:56
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VIEWED: 5259
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Saturday, December 9, 2006 6:32 AM

Please do not take this as me implying that there is anything wrong with the series, hell i love it! But if there were a few plot lines that you wish hadn't been used, any characters that should have stayed out, then this is the place to vent those frustrations.
Here are mine:
1) The whole of the evil Cordy/Jasmine story arc in season four. They should have just kept it as Angel + his groupies vs the Beast. Cordy seducing Connor was just wrong. And speaking of Connor...
2) Connor in season four. Man he pissed me of so bad! Why couldn't he just have been angsty and difficult instead of gullible and wet all the time. Plus the whole him and Cordy/Jasmine thing... Nuff said.

Join in!

'If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do'

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Saturday, December 9, 2006 10:51 AM

CHRISISALL

No angsty son at all. Don't go there at all, that's what I'd change.

Angel not a Daddy Chrisisall

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Saturday, December 9, 2006 11:06 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

I'd have liked them not to include:

WES
DARLA
SPIKE
and
Connor.

Spike being my particular bug-bear. He was overused in Buffy so imagine my dismay at seeing him pop up in Angel!!! At one point I was begining to wonder if he'd show up in Firefly

Angel was a great show, but it would have been better if they had have developed thier own characters and extended the myth more beyond Buffy.

Still a GREAT show regardless, I'm just a sourpuss.

www.cirqus.com

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Saturday, December 9, 2006 12:04 PM

BLACKSHAMROCK5

I wish that they hadn't killed Doyle and even though I liked the ep The Girl in Question the scenes with "Buffy" almost ruin it for me.

remember that a kick in the ass is a step forward

Shamrock
www.myspace.com/clover718

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Saturday, December 9, 2006 12:30 PM

DEEPGIRL187

Season four is a big one for me (it was way too convoluted), but I wouldn't take out Connor altogether. I think he could be a valuble character, and I actually liked the idea of Angel having a son. It allowed him to mature as a character because Connor was the one person he couldn't completely push away. Oh, and I wouldn't have killed off Doyle so quickly (though I understand why they did it).

*************************************************

"So long and goodnight."

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Saturday, December 9, 2006 2:00 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

The only things I would have changed would have been more story arc in Season 5, less stand-alone episodes, and less Spike.

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 1:55 AM

JWHEDONADDICT

Well I, for one, would've changed the cancellation!

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 3:36 AM

GROUNDED

More attention paid to Gunn, Fred and Lorne. I've seen Joss talk about how Angel got so much better when it became an ensemble show, but it's alarming how often the other members of the ensemble were relegated to scene-filler.

I also didn't want Kate to leave, but I guess she had a pretty solid arc conclusion.

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 3:52 AM

JWHEDONADDICT

Of all the polls I've seen about best/worst characters, I find it very weird how Kate never enters my mind at all, either way. At least beyond the original airings of S1 & S2. Possibly with a different actress I'd feel differently, but I guess as she was, the character just never had much impact on me over the series as a whole.

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Monday, December 11, 2006 8:20 AM

GROOSALUGG

I would've liked to have seen more acknowlegdment of Cordy's death in the episodes after "You're Welcome." Compare the aftermath of Doyle's death, and the effect it had on Angel and Cordy in the eps that followed, to Cordy's, where it wasn't even mentioned again until the next-to-last episode. I would've liked to have seen the other characters (besides Angel) at least react somehow to her death. But with the reported rift between Joss and Charisma (supposedly she only made it back into the 100th ep because David Fury pushed for her), I guess it's not surprising that they tried to sweep her and her character under the rug as quickly as possible afterward. Disappointing, but not surprising.

Most of my other gripes are with S4. Evil Cordy was written poorly and played even worse (Charisma just can't do the Big Bad thing, apparently); all the potential Connor had to be a compelling character at the end of S3 was washed away as they turned him into EC's little lapdog; the Beast was a lame, boring villain who shouldn't even have lasted as long as he did; and Jasmine... ugh.

Although, looking back at it now, much later, I'm realizing that the Jasmine arc wasn't as bad as it first seemed. Just take it on its own for a moment, out of the framework of the rest of the season, it's actually pretty interesting and well done (altho "Shiny Happy People" is a dreadfully dull, slow-moving kickoff for it). The real problem is that it just doesn't fit in with the events of earlier in the season. It feels tacked-on, made-up at the last minute.

And lastly, I guess I would've liked Gunn to have been introduced earlier in S1. S1 is terrific, but the cast of just three main characters for most of it leaves it feeling small and confined at times.

Oh, wait, one more thing. Instead of the WB, I wish it could've aired on cable, instead. HBO or Showtime, one of those. Why? Four words: Amy... Acker... nude... scene.

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Monday, December 11, 2006 1:24 PM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
Amy... Acker... nude... scene.

And here I thought Groosalugg was supposed to be a champion of chivalry.

I agree with the effect Cordy's death seemed to have on the crew. As much as I loved Fred, they should have focused more on Cordy.

The rift between Joss and Charisma is new to me. What exactly happened?

*************************************************

"So long and goodnight."

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Monday, December 11, 2006 2:30 PM

GROOSALUGG

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
The rift between Joss and Charisma is new to me. What exactly happened?

Well, you know what the internet is like: all kinds of rumors, hearsay, gossip, etc. Pretty much impossible to know what's true and what's not.

But with that disclaimer out of the way... the way I heard it was that when Charisma got pregnant betweens seasons 3 and 4, she never told anyone from the show about it during the hiatus. So the writers all got together before the season to plan the basic storyline out, as they usually do, and came up with this idea of having Cordy be the Big Bad... all the way thru--big fight with Angel at the end, the works. Then as filming is getting ready to start, CC shows up and delivers the news that she'll be having a baby right about the time they'll be shooting episode 20 or 21. Now they have to change the storyline, have Connor hook up with her in order to write her pregnancy into the show, find a way to replace her as the season's Big Bad somewhere around ep 17 or 18... you get the idea. She obviously didn't return as a regular cast member in the next season, and most accounts seem to agree that she was basically fired because the producers--and Joss particularly--were so mad at her.

Anyway, that's the version I heard--now stay tuned as others will undoubtedly have a different angle on it

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Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:50 PM

THEMANTHEYCALLEDJAMES

I'll keep it brief

Season 1 -I'd keep Doyle alive until the end of the season AND ERASE all episode featuring Buffy

Season 2-I'd cut the 'alternate reality' episodes at the end of the season and replace them with something more consistent with what was going on in the first two thirds (you know the Darla storyline that just up and vanished) still this was by far the best season

oh Kate should have stayed on the show somehow

Season 3- I'd cut the whole Darla pregnacy/Connor storyline and zero in on the conflict between Angel and Holtz.... maybe we could have Holtz start off gung ho in his hunt for Angel but after he's realized that Angel is good he comes to some sort of crossroads, with his loyaties split between the shows multiple factions (I'm getting an idea for a fanfic here) story ...I'd also cut Cordy's whole higher being/Demon thing...its way out of character

Season 4- The radical changes I made to Season 3's ending make a similar seaoson 4 difficult, which is good because while the first 5 or 6 episode of this season where good...the 'Armagedon' thing really sucked...(I stop watching for a year cuz of it and didn't catch the rest until reruns) I'd need huge fanfic to correct it...basically I'd keep the ending mostly the same It would end with Angel and CO joining WR&H

Season 5- One of my huge problems with S5 was the fact the it really didn't 'feel'
like Angel joined WR&H because all of the people we associated with the place WERE DEAD, but since my altered S4 didn't have the Beast or Jazimine , these guys stated alive and now Angel is Gavin/Lila's boss (come on we all would have loved to see that)

also Spike would be a recurring character and not a lead...as not to upstage the real vamp with a soul...

when Cordy dies she'll actually transfer the visions to Angel and in later episode we will really see Angel getting them

Llyria will only show up in "Hole in the world" and no other episode its pointless to try to develop a whole new lead with 5 episode left in the friggin show

Buffy would show up in "the girl in question" and find out about Angel's relationship with Cory...that was a moment I was waiting so long for and it NEVER HAPPENED!!!

Last but not least the Senior Partners would all make appreances in this season...better yet Angel would join(then double cross) them instead of Black Thorn

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Sunday, December 24, 2006 7:21 AM

GROOSALUGG

Quote:
Originally posted by themantheycalledJames:
Llyria will only show up in "Hole in the world" and no other episode its pointless to try to develop a whole new lead with 5 episode left in the friggin show

You do realize, right, that the idea for Illyria occurred to Joss very early in S5, and that she was intended to be a main part of the cast into S6 and beyond? They weren't cancelled until they were in the middle of filming the second episode she was in ("Underneath"). And she actually appears in seven eps (16 thru 22, plus her first appearance at the very end of 15 makes 8).

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Sunday, December 24, 2006 7:56 AM

THEMANTHEYCALLEDJAMES

uh sooo....that still doesn't change that the character was stupid and her story at best over dramatic, it just felt like Llryria's existence dragged out Fred's 'death'

all the drama with Llyria and Wes was tottally played out after the original episode

remember when at the end of "Whole in the world"
when Llyria finds her home abandoned and says "my world is gone"...then Wes replies "Now you know how I feel"

that was a GREAT moment and THE LAST TIME we needed to see that character

the same could be said for Anya in the Buffy S7
basically her storyline was over after 'Selfless'...come on the whole group turns against her, the final blow in her relationship with Xander is struck , she loses her powers and Halfek gets killed and then a few weeks later she's back in the scooby gang?

even more annoying is that they killed her in the finale when that episode would haven been a much better 'out' for the character

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Sunday, December 24, 2006 8:16 AM

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

considering they had such a short time with illyria I think they did great things with her. coming to terms with first being very powerful but with no purpose, then losing most of that power and being one of the puny demons she looked down on, timebomb was an amazing episode, and then building the humanizing relationship with wesley. she was one of my favourite characters ever and it's hard to believe she was in so few episodes...

if I could change something it would be not losing cordy, she was cool

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

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Sunday, December 24, 2006 8:18 AM

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

Quote:
Originally posted by themantheycalledJames:

the same could be said for Xander's ex fiance in Season 7 of Buffy.

*gasp*, anya was amazing, especially in season 7

and she wasn't just xander's fiance, she was interwoven with the group, she couldn't just disappear...

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

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Sunday, December 24, 2006 8:40 AM

THEMANTHEYCALLEDJAMES

I edited that post just now I wanted to explain it further but I needed to use the bathroom

my point was after 'selfless' (I also need to go to TV.com to get the episode name because well its been at least a year since I've watched it)
it just felt like the character's arc was over

heck after I saw that episode for the first time it seemed like its purpose was to write the character off (it was in the final season, you know when story lines need to wrap)
and like Llyria seeing her after that was just akward

It sucks to see a beloved character go but for the sake of the story it would have been better for Anya to go here, than with her anti-climatic death in the final minutes of the show

Gosh I could get into an whole finale Rant right then...because on Buffy and Angel none of the deaths were really handled well

Serenity probably did this best...when Wash and Book died not only was it shocking but it made the following scenes more intese because that basically ment the whole cast was now killable, every time a memeber of the crew took a hit it looked like it could be the end.

when Anya/Wesley/Spike died...it just lead to 'insert tearjerking scene here' bits even though the fate of the world was still at stake at the same time

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Sunday, December 24, 2006 8:56 AM

CHARLIETHEBLOODY

aw, I guess I'm a sucker for a tear jerker then, I didn't like the serenity deaths, they were too rushed and casual, and didn't have the desired effect of making me think anyone could die (not sure why, I just didn't think that).

for me wesley's was a perfect death scene, it was dramatic and gut wrenching and beautiful with the 'lying' bit and made you feel every second of it... but then I am quite soppy, and wes was one of my favourite characters.

anya's death was a bit pants, I missed it the first time, didn't even know she had died until xander was asking andrew

but I would have missed out on her presence in the last few episodes for anything.

after selfless it's a bit like the illyria thing, she'd lost her powers and had no other friends so what else can she do but stick with the group?

--------------------------------------
"I'm an artist, with an e and a beret."

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