I really wanna know; why is Charmed bad? by Zoot

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I really wanna know; why is Charmed bad?

POSTED BY: ZOOT
UPDATED: Friday, May 6, 2005 02:55
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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 8:53 AM

A recent thread which turned briefly to this subject got me thinking and I really want to know - Why IS Charmed just not that good???

I mean it has all the elements which should make it dandy:
(a) Witches;
(b) nice story arcs;
(c) amusing story lines;
(d) (one for the men) many a naked or semi-maked woman (Query: Is it always hot enough for those girls to wear what they wear (if you can call it clothes)?)
(e) attractive men (at least in the first series before they all got fat).

So why does it just suck a little bit . . .

Is it just that it had no Joss Whedon?? Please someone help me out here 'cos I really would like to KNOW!!!!

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:07 AM

KELLAINA

Because all of the plot lines appear to be based on the skimpy costumes and not on actual story (this may not be a problem for the guys but it bores me, and I'd imagine many other women as well).

And no Joss is definitely a strike against it.

If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. -"Angel"

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:36 AM

EMBERS

repetitive story arcs that go nowhere and mean nothing
how many times did Cole turn good & evil?
HOW many times did Leo bounce in and out of family life

and lame one shot plots with no other purpose than to get girls into costume
mermaids
goddesses
amazons
jeez how lame can they get?

and tired melodramatic dialogue...how can they take themselves so seriously when they are prancing about half naked?

It didn't start off like this,
originally they were saving innocents and dealing with sister issues that actually seemed to mean something...
even the acting got worse (not just the writing)

JMPO of course

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:39 AM

GROUNDED

I started watching it a while back when Living TV in the UK came back around to start it from the beginning. I think I watched the first three seasons, maybe more, one ep per weekday and while I was moderately interested at first, the whole thing rapidly became tiresome. For that reason, the next bit applies only to the stuff I've seen, which is probably around ten episodes after Paige showed up. If there's been a big improvement since then, obviously I won't know about it.

I think the biggest problem is, ironically, the magic. When you have a world where practically anything is possible, it's easy to do whatever the hell you want without really thinking about it. Episodes can be wrapped up with the casting of a spell, characters can be resurrected at the drop of a hat, huge plot holes can easily open up when someone conveniently doesn't use a power. Personally I think sci-fi/fantasy shows are much better when they establish boundaries within which the writer's have to work. I think that makes people really work hard to come up with original material and test the limits of their premise.

Of course other things contribute, as was mentioned in the other thread: poor acting, wooden characters and so on.

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:30 AM

ZOOT

Yeah, Grounded, I think you have a Big Damn Point there - good call - thanks, I think you may have answered my question - and I think it can be summed up thusly:

NOT ENOUGH PERIL!!

Have to say I only started watching it 'cos living TV kept doing those weekends where you vote for episodes and I had to then watch the first series to try and unravel the plot as I'd seen about 30 episodes out of order . . . Have to say, I still watch back episodes occasionally but only cos I still haven't worked out what made Cole turn evil again or the pivotal episode where he became human (if that's what happened) plus I never did see the Phoebe daemon baby stuff - have just heard plot lines from my sister - I always seem to miss the key episodes - darn it!!

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:32 AM

ZOOT

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

and lame one shot plots with no other purpose than to get girls into costume
mermaids
goddesses
amazons
jeez how lame can they get?

Embers, you forgot the Super Hero episdoe - those were some damn fine costumes

I think it comes to something when a character's motivation is the costume she's wearing (that doesn't of course apply to any Brown Coat type issues

)

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:08 PM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:
Embers, you forgot the Super Hero episdoe - those were some damn fine costumes

oh I've forgotten a dozen of the lame costume ideas,
because they are just not memorable...

Quote:
posted by Zoot:
I think it comes to something when a character's motivation is the costume she's wearing (that doesn't of course apply to any Brown Coat type issues )

But we know Mal's motivations transcend his brown coat...
because you'll recall in 'Trash' he didn't have the coat,
or ... anything...
and his motivations were still right on target!

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 1:41 PM

RUXTON

Charmed...was better with Shannen Doherty. It might have done better if the producers (two of the main actresses, at least) had had the brains to keep Charisma Carpenter on as a main character, or if they had done more with Kristen Miller than run her around nude on horseback, with precious little to say. Miller is incredibly funny, but her talents were wasted on Charmed. Two of the main gals seem to be seriously aging and, I suspect, are jealous of anyone on the show who might make 'em look bad.

And what color IS Alyssa Milano's hair, REALLY? Is there anyplace she does NOT have tatoos? And do we really care?

I also think the acting on Charmed is uniformly atrocious, at least among the regulars. They don't seem to give a darn. Charisma, perhaps not the finest of actresses on a world scale, came across far better than any of the regulars, I thought.

At least Rose McGowan comes across as fresh, most of the time.

Oh, and Veronica Mars HAS BEEN RENEWED!

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 10:09 PM

ZOOT

If only I knew what Veronica Mars was - Woe unto thee, British TV!!!

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Thursday, April 14, 2005 2:35 AM

MRSKBORG

I'm still being subjected to this, its dull, repetative, the characters are boring, wooden - although Billy Zane was almost a breath of fresh air. However, I have a twelve year old who disagrees, probably because she doesn't remember the earlier ones so its all new to her. At least thats what I keep telling myself.

"This movie may be a beautiful butterfly, but I loved that damn caterpillar." Joss Whedon.

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Thursday, April 14, 2005 2:51 AM

ZOOT

My sympathies go out to you!!

Frankly I'm still reeling from having assumed that the Avatars were the Big Bad and they would end the season and (one can only hope) the show - now I discover they have been defeated midseason and we're back to the inane one episode plot lines which seem created solely to irritate ….

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Thursday, April 14, 2005 1:38 PM

GWENHARKER

Don't forget that many of the stories seemed scarily alike to the Buffy ones. For example, the season six buffy episode Normal Again was supposed to be season five, but something leaked and Charmed latched on and cranked it out first. And I'm sure you oculd see (I know I can) that Normal Again would've been more appropriate with what was going on in Season 5 with Glory and the brains.

Charmed, Season Six had potential if you got past the crappy writing. Alas, Holly got pregnant and Chris' storyline was sped up, when it would've been much more logical to have it done over the course of a season and a half - two seasons (Piper and Leo loved one another, but the way they were put together much too convenient).

IMHO, the best actress on that shwo is Holly Marie Combs. She doesn't dress slutty or anything and is and always has been the responsible one.

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Thursday, April 14, 2005 1:58 PM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:
If only I knew what Veronica Mars was - Woe unto thee, British TV!!!
***************************************

I hope you get it someday...
Veronica is smart and funny, with lots of underlying angst

it is like you took the adolescent girl's 'Nancy Drew' books,
set them at 'Twin Peaks',
and hired some writers who really knew how to crank out funny dialogue...
and added complications like a dead best friend
a boyfriend who dumped VM
and a Mother who deserted her
and some unknown school 'friend' who raped her...
(I love this show)

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Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:18 PM

ZOOT

its begining to sound like a slightly more up neat and screwed My So Called Life!!

We always get these things eventually - it just takes time - I will look out for it!

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Thursday, April 14, 2005 11:50 PM

QUICKSAND

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:

(a) Witches;
(b) nice story arcs;
(c) amusing story lines;
(d) (one for the men) many a naked or semi-maked woman (Query: Is it always hot enough for those girls to wear what they wear (if you can call it clothes)?)
(e) attractive men (at least in the first series before they all got fat).

a) The presence or absence of witches has nothing to do with the quality of the show. It's rather like a movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger or a food with chocolate. Just because the item is there, does not mean the result is automatically superior.

b) Maybe there's a nice story arc over one 60-minute episode, but Buffy/Angel/Firefly rock because there are ALSO arcs over entire SEASONS, and the lives of the characters. Just because "Charmed" had enough brain to acknowledge that characters actually aged over time (unlike, say, any other Aaron Spelling show ever), there wasn't really an arc. A few recurring characters, but not any real growth. It's "Melodrama" (Aaron Spelling again) vs. Actual Drama.

c) We're all entitled to our opinion. Nobody is right or wrong, I just disagree.

d) Just because a movie has cleavage, does not mean I will go see it. There are plenty of magazines, and "alternative" cinema I can watch if that's all I want. Also, I do date occasionally.

e) Mostly everyone on the show is gorgeous, but ditto for the Spanish Channel. No disrespect to the Latin culture, but I don't watch that channel either. Y yo comprende un poco de espanol, tambien. (apologies for not working the ~ right).

Hey, if you like "Charmed," go right ahead and enjoy it. But I hope I speak for everyone here when I say it's "Joss Lite." And I don't mean in the sense that Jane Espenson is Joss Lite, I mean Lite Lite. If that makes sense. Someone back me up here, or argue with me. It's cool.

___\_o_/___
--------------- (Qs)

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Friday, April 15, 2005 12:25 AM

ZOOT

Au contraire - ain't gonna argue!!

I bloody HATE Charmed - but was trying to point out that it could have been good if Mr Spelling hadn't been involved and Joss had.....

Glad to hear you "date occasionally" - I wonder what that would be like...

I don't think we have the equivalent of the Spanish Channel in the UK and it sounds like that's a darn shame (irony!)....

Melodrama is a good way to put it, but I think "Joss Lite " is doing Joss a disservice - not even in the same ball park (can an English woman use that expression without sounding odd?)...

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Friday, April 15, 2005 1:48 AM

QUICKSAND

I will now diss my own post:

1) The Spanish channel is a window into a culture that is not my own. As an American, I am naturally culturally ignorant, and therefore know nothing of why these shows are so popular. However, I am comfortable in the knowledge that I can turn it on any time of day, and instantly want to shag whatever female is on the screen. (I use the word specifically for the Brit who started this thread. Americans can look it up).

2) I left something out. Know why else I hate "Charmed?" All the bloody ESTROGEN.

3) What's the UK equivalent of "Lite?" Can I substitute the phrase "Diet Joss?"

(qs)

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Friday, April 15, 2005 2:16 AM

ZOOT

Quote:
Originally posted by Quicksand:
I will now diss my own post:

1) The Spanish channel is a window into a culture that is not my own. As an American, I am naturally culturally ignorant, and therefore know nothing of why these shows are so popular. However, I am comfortable in the knowledge that I can turn it on any time of day, and instantly want to shag whatever female is on the screen. (I use the word specifically for the Brit who started this thread. Americans can look it up).

2) I left something out. Know why else I hate "Charmed?" All the bloody ESTROGEN.

3) What's the UK equivalent of "Lite?" Can I substitute the phrase "Diet Joss?"

(qs)

A response from "the Brit who started this thread":

1) am liking the sound of the Spanish channel if it has a commensurate number of shaggable men (see “shag” can be an adjective as well) – I don’t get out much (shock, horror!)

2) Speaking as a woman, I wholeheartedly concur about the Oestrogen (that’s how we spell it in the UK) – can’t stand overly feminine women! (as I write this I am, however, wearing plunging lacy top to show off puppies (another UK term) so I can hardly talk) - The episode aired on Living TV last night, here in the UK, had such an eyeful of Phoebe’s aforementioned puppies – I had to look away!!

3) Diet Joss still doesn’t work – needs to be Pepsi versus Coke (or rather 7Up versus Tango)…..

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Friday, April 15, 2005 12:59 PM

QUICKSAND

Watered-Down Joss

Joss Lite

Diet Joss

Low-Carb Joss

Joss = Original Trilogy / JossLite = Clone Menace

Joss 2: Cruise Control

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Friday, April 15, 2005 1:57 PM

SPOOKYJESUS

It's an Aaron Spelling show and in the words of your hero and mine, Mr. Joss Whedon -

"I believe Aaron Spelling has single-handedly
lowered SAT scores."

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Friday, April 15, 2005 10:58 PM

ZOOT

He he he!

There ain't a sole in the 'Verse can hit a nail on the head quite as well as Mr Joss!!

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Saturday, April 16, 2005 2:03 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by Quicksand:
Joss 2: Cruise Control

Oh man that's priceless

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Sunday, April 24, 2005 2:17 PM

MSCKAREN

I wouldn't describe Charmed as BAD just not all that great... I watch it when I'm in a vegetative state and too lazy to pop in a Whedon series DVD.

The one thing I do LOVE about the show is the opening theme music. Is there a Charmed CD out with that tune on it? I do remember thinking a couple times what a shame it is to have such a great theme song wasted on a mediocre show...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've canceled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."

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Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:03 PM

BIKISDAD

Quote:
Originally posted by msckaren:

The one thing I do LOVE about the show is the opening theme music. Is there a Charmed CD out with that tune on it? I do remember thinking a couple times what a shame it is to have such a great theme song wasted on a mediocre show...

Interestingly, there is a Charmed soundtrack cd, at least in the US. I don't know whether it's available in the UK. However, don't buy it. Before the Charmed tv show, there was a much better movie called "The Craft". That movie also has a soundtrack cd out with the exact same song on it as the theme song used for Charmed. Why get "The Craft" soundtrack instead of the Charmed soundtrack when they both have the same song on them, you might ask? Simple, the rest of the music on "The Craft" cd is similar in quality to that theme song, making the whole cd really good. On the Charmed cd, you'd basically be getting that one great song combined with a bunch of other stuff of considerably lesser quality.

Funny, the comparison of the two cds also applies to the show and the movie. I would describe "The Craft" as "Joss-like", whereas I would describe Charmed as "Joss-free".

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Sunday, April 24, 2005 8:50 PM

EMMA

It is amazing how many people hate Charmed yet have the ability to tear it to shreds in some detail.

I have never managed a full episode; it is even worse than Stargate and that is saying something!

(Please no violent assualts on my person, just saying is all)

I really should get me a signature

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Sunday, April 24, 2005 10:27 PM

ZOOT

I know what you mean, but like MSCKAREN I tend to watch it when am in persistent vegetative hung-over state on Sundays when I just wouldn't do justice to Mr Whedon because I can't focus or concentrate on a plot. I also tend to read a book at the same time...

Having said that I just watched Charmageddon (really, just for the high class name) on Living TV this weekend and think I may have over dosed severely - someone take me to casualty (NOT the TV programme but the nice shiny building with people who can extract my memories of the Charmed women and leave me fresh and clean)....

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armed.

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Monday, April 25, 2005 12:41 AM

GROUNDED

It takes a special calibre of writer to work each title into a pun...

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Monday, April 25, 2005 2:08 AM

ZOOT

Yeah, one that's going to a "Special Hell" I'm thinking....

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Monday, April 25, 2005 3:12 AM

MSCKAREN

Thanks for the tip, Bikisdad. I did like The Craft, too, so I'll look for that soundtrack.

I've found a lot of great music via soundtracks. Some of the best are from less than stellar movies like Valentine and The Cursed.

I discovered Evanescence through the DareDevil soundtrack even though I've never seen that movie all the way through.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've canceled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."

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Monday, April 25, 2005 4:27 AM

VILAVON

I'm still flying in 2021. How about you?

The only thing I can think of is that Charmed is bad because you let it be bad. Lower your expectations and you will be so pleased you will giggle.

Vilavon AKA Claude

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Saturday, April 30, 2005 10:14 PM

KRYSTLE

I really don't know why it get such a bad rep. It really a good show. I for 1 Love it!! But then again i love most things with maigk in them (buffy, harry potter) so may be it depends. I know not meny of my friends like it and my male friends that do like it just for the girls just like my dad.

NO POWER IN THE 'VERS CAN STOP ME!

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Sunday, May 1, 2005 2:26 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by Vilavon:
The only thing I can think of is that Charmed is bad because you let it be bad. Lower your expectations and you will be so pleased you will giggle.

My expectations couldn't have been much lower - I expected it to be awful and it was.

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Friday, May 6, 2005 2:55 AM

SQUIGS

Quote:
Originally posted by Emma:
It is amazing how many people hate Charmed yet have the ability to tear it to shreds in some detail.

I have never managed a full episode; it is even worse than Stargate and that is saying something!

(Please no violent assualts on my person, just saying is all)

I really should get me a signature

I saw it a few times. I was sort of intrigued at first. But the series never tried to do anything too engaging either on a fantasy level, or dramatically. I wanted it to improve. I was ultimately disappointed.

And here's what I found.

They're constantly attacked by a beastie that happen to be defeatable either by their powers, or by a spell that's in the book of shadows. They never need to do anything clever except trick the thing into attacking them.

Everyone is either good or evil. No shades of grey. Never misguided. Never disagreement.

And as far as character development goes, things just seem to happen. Piper buys a nightclub. Instant success. Guys magically turn up with no reason to have met them.

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