Out of Gas or out of mind? by ManiacNumberOne

TALK STORY

Out of Gas or out of mind?

POSTED BY: MANIACNUMBERONE
UPDATED: Monday, April 14, 2003 04:23
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VIEWED: 5612
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Monday, March 17, 2003 8:56 AM

Hi kids, I was enjoyin' OOG again last night, and I was thinking about a part that I thought made Mal look not so smart. Remember when he finally gets the catalyzer after being shot? Well, what does he do first? Does he hit the call-back button for the crew? No. He goes to the infirmiry to wrap a cloth around himself and use some adrenalin...does he call back the crew then? No, he then goes to the engine room to make repairs. After getting the engine going again, Mal does try to call back the crew, but by then, of couse, he has lost too much blood and he passes out. I have to say Mal's intellect did not really impress me here. But regardless, this was one of the very best flashback episodes ever. We get to see how Kaylee, Wash, Inara and Jayne joined the crew. I couldn't be more pleased about that. I would be interested to see a chonological flashback list. I know it would be hard to compile, but wouldn't it be shiny?

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Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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Monday, March 17, 2003 9:27 AM

LOSTANGEL

The only way that I could figure that one out was the reasoning that Serenity is Mal's entire world. Even Zoe comes after that ship. Just like mothers that will put their lives in danger to ensure the safety of their children, Mal thought only of Serenity and didn't think about anyone else until she was OK. He looked to himself because he had to be somewhat functional to repair the ship.

______________________
Lost Angel

WASH: Psychic, though? That sounds like something out of science fiction.
ZOE: We live in a space ship, dear.
WASH: So?

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Monday, March 17, 2003 9:29 AM

JERRY

Well, I think he needed to restore the ship in order to make sure he'd have air to breathe. Calling the crew back so they could find his body wouldn't have been the best plan.

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Monday, March 17, 2003 10:39 AM

MORLAC

Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry:
Well, I think he needed to restore the ship in order to make sure he'd have air to breathe. Calling the crew back so they could find his body wouldn't have been the best plan.

If that were the case, the extra few seconds required to call the crew back might not have made any difference, so why not do it first?

However, you could also justify it by suggesting that Mal wanted to make sure the replacement part actually worked before calling everyone back and possibly ruining whatever miniscule chance they had for a safe escape.

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Monday, March 17, 2003 10:52 AM

HJERMSTED

Quote:
However, you could also justify it by suggesting that Mal wanted to make sure the replacement part actually worked before calling everyone back and possibly ruining whatever miniscule chance they had for a safe escape.

This sounds the most likely explanation.

Or maybe he just wanted to impress Kaylee (which he ended up doing) by fixing it before she returned.

In any case, oxygen deprivation and blood loss often lead to some pretty strange decisions. At least Mal didn't curl up in a corner with a book he desperately wanted to finish before he died...

Great episode! You've got to love a show where the apparent surface level "plot holes" are actually revealed to be cleverly disguised insights into the characters' psyches.

mattro

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Monday, March 17, 2003 11:41 AM

MANIACNUMBERONE

I appreciate getting such well-thought-out responses to this post. You are all very insightful. I hadn't thought that Mal might not want to ruin the chances of the other crew finding help, on account of the catalyzer part not working. Mal calling them back would indeed be pointless. I remember Kaylee showing Mal where the catalyzer went on the engine, but I didn't think Mal would try to fix it himself. He is very resourceful.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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Monday, March 17, 2003 12:54 PM

LOSTANGEL

Quote:
You've got to love a show where the apparent surface level "plot holes" are actually revealed to be cleverly disguised insights into the characters' psyches.

Of course it could just be a bunch of people with overactive imaginations going through withdrawl over their favorite show mixing their own spackle for these holes!

Don't get me wrong, I am never one to give Joss too much credit, because I don't think this is possible. At the very least he is capable of creating a show that holds the interest of these intelligent, thoughtful insightful people months after the show is put on hiatus.

I'm all blushing because I am one of this group of course! Modesty is part of our make-up too!

Yes, it's on hiatus! Yes, it's not cancelled! No, I refuse to believe otherwise!

______________________
Lost Angel

WASH: Psychic, though? That sounds like something out of science fiction.
ZOE: We live in a space ship, dear.
WASH: So?

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Monday, March 17, 2003 4:32 PM

MORLAC

Quote:
Originally posted by lostangel:
Of course it could just be a bunch of people with overactive imaginations going through withdrawl over their favorite show mixing their own spackle for these holes!

I'm glad some folks liked my proposed explanation. I certainly do agree that it could still be a plot hole and our own overactive imaginations filling it.

But on the other hand, as a (very) amateur writer and a slightly less amateur game master for a variety of RPGs, I'll also say that one of the marks of a well written universe is that it's amenable to spackle. That is, a good universe hangs together in such a way that viewers can fill in the blanks if they choose. No book or tv show can possibly answer every possible question or fill in every detail of its world during its limited "on screen" time. But if it's well planned and scripted, then it comes off to the viewer as if it all makes sense and there are coherent reasons why things are the way they are.

I think the two extremes of this could be illustrated by Babylon 5 and The West Wing. At the well-planned end you have B5. JMS not only personally wrote many of the scripts but he had a story outline for all five seasons before starting the show. At the other extreme you have West Wing, where Aaron Sorkin has said on many occasions that he has no overall plan, and is often writing just barely ahead of production. That's how on B5 you can get subtle foreshadowing of something that slowly develops and comes to fruition three seasons later, while on West Wing you can actually *lose* characters without a trace. (Moira Kelly started the show as a regular first season and disappeared after awhile without comment or explanation. Sorkin eventually admitted that he'd gone so long without addressing it that it would be ridiculous to even try.)

Don't get me wrong, I like both shows -- but B5 is more like great classical orchestral music and West Wing is more like improvisational jazz.

We can argue about whether or not certain aspects of the show makes sense (as has happened in numerous other threads here). But so far as characterization goes, I think that Firefly was spot on most of the time. I never felt like saying "oh he wouldn't do that!" or "why did she say that?"

Just my 2 cents...

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Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:46 AM

SABI

I think the only thing running through Mal's mind was, "I have to fix Serenity or I am going to die." That was the top priority in his foggy brain. But that being said, I don't think he ever accepted the possibility that he was going to die.

Notice he didn't want anyone saying goodbye? He cut Inara off as much as he could, he cut off Wash before he could apologize and say goodbye, and then he cut Jayne off about the suit when he said, "I won't be needin' it."

I don't think his dying was an option. If he took care of Serenity, Serenity would take care of him, and I don't think he was thinking much further than that.

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Wednesday, March 19, 2003 3:13 PM

ARCHER

A man who's been shot in the stomach is not likely to be in the best frame of mind when it comes to making decisions. One thing a writer has to account for continually is the fact that the characters aren't omniscient.

Stop and consider this- if you heard a similar story to this, recounted as a true event, you probably wouldn't find it surprising. Shock does strange things to people, right?

Orson Scott Card talked about this in a nonfiction book, the concept that fiction must be more accurate than fact. When we hear about implausible things that really happen, we say "Truth is stranger than fiction." When we read something a bit off, we declare "That would never happen!"

Think I drifted slightly off-topic there, but I'm a well-known rambler.

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Wednesday, March 19, 2003 4:13 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

"You're not recalling some of the Captain's plans."
Mal is tough and smart but sometimes he chooses to wear a pretty floral bonnet and a cotton dress for no apparent reason besides airflow.

In this case I think he made the right choice. It depends how much air was left, how far the shuttles got from the ship and what the shuttle's maximum speed is. There's a lot of stairs from the hold to the bridge and back with a gut wound. He might not have made it to the engine room if he had skipped the first aid and adrenalin and gone for the recall button. The crew may have returned to an airless ship. Did they have suits on the shuttle.?

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Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:50 PM

MANIACNUMBERONE

I believe there were suits on the shuttles as well as on serenity. Why Mal didn't get in one is beyond me. Maybe, like you say Archer, he was a bit confused, he isn't omniscient. But he did have enough presence of mind to use the adrenalin and fix the ship.
I am wondering the obvious though...why did Mal not call the crew back immediately when he first saw the new ship? Even if the other ship didn't have the part, they were the only ship in the area. They might have offered help to the other crew members. (Mal was easy prey alone.)

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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Thursday, March 20, 2003 3:22 AM

SABI

I'll bet Mal knew right from the start that they were pirates. Especially when he realized that the other Captain wanted him to beg. That scene was so well written - Mal desparately needing help and that %&*@! wanting him to beg and he wouldn't do it! And I loved that last line, "And I do expect to see that engine part before I open the door (a$$hole)."

And I believe that Mal left that gun within easy reach in the cargo bay.

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Thursday, March 20, 2003 4:41 AM

ARCHER

Oh damn I miss this show. OOG was my favorite episode.

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Thursday, March 20, 2003 9:19 AM

MANIACNUMBERONE

Quote:
Originally posted by Sabi:
I'll bet Mal knew right from the start that they were pirates. Especially when he realized that the other Captain wanted him to beg. That scene was so well written - Mal desparately needing help and that %&*@! wanting him to beg and he wouldn't do it! And I loved that last line, "And I do expect to see that engine part before I open the door (a$$hole)."

And I believe that Mal left that gun within easy reach in the cargo bay.

I do believe you are right. I love this show too.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

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Thursday, March 20, 2003 3:30 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

"And I believe that Mal left that gun within easy reach in the cargo bay."

Yep.

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Thursday, March 20, 2003 5:20 PM

SARAHETC

Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:
"And I believe that Mal left that gun within easy reach in the cargo bay."

Yep.

Amazing. That never occured to me. My mind spackled in: that's the gun they keep on the mule. Like, doesn't everybody keep a gun on their mule? The mule needs a gun too.

Where else have I spackled in something completely doofy, I wonder.

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Thursday, March 20, 2003 8:42 PM

MANIACNUMBERONE

Quote:
Originally posted by Sarahetc:
Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:
"And I believe that Mal left that gun within easy reach in the cargo bay."

Yep.

Amazing. That never occured to me. My mind spackled in: that's the gun they keep on the mule. Like, doesn't everybody keep a gun on their mule? The mule needs a gun too.

Where else have I spackled in something completely doofy, I wonder.

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

I'd really like to believe Mal left that gun there on purpose, but the look on his face when he initially sees it isn't satisfaction, it's surprise... don't you think?

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I don't know, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

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Thursday, March 20, 2003 9:01 PM

NOOCYTE

Hey now, SARAHETC! Can you give a ref. for that gun being part of the mule's equipment? Is there some point in an ep which I failed to notice, like someone futzing with or checking or stowing the piece?

Reason I ask, is that this could put to bed the question of where River got the ordnance in OiS...though I suppose that wouldn't wash (har-har), since everyone ELSE was so puzzled about where she got it.

Still, strains the mind, don't it.

And, for my $.02, I think Mal did plant the gun there in case the pirates turned out to be the dishonorable variety. He seemed to know just where to look/reach, even though recently gut-shot. Plus, it's a very Mal thing to do. The look of surprise might refer to the aforementioned gut shot.

Department of Redundancy Department

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Friday, March 21, 2003 3:26 AM

ARCHER

That he planted the gun there would be my read. This is a fairly paranoid frontier society we're talking about here.

"I do believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."

On a side note, what I loved about OoG was that it stood in direct contrast to the Star Trek mindset. Space is a lethal environment, and there isn't time for debate in a disaster.

Contrast Mal's handling of the situation with, say, Picard's.

Instead of roughing Wash up and getting him to do his job, he would have felt his pain and sent the nearest convenient teenager in to take over the helm.

Then he would have held at least three extended conferences before Kaylee could come up with the proper technobabble solution.

On the other hand, Mal displayed his flexible leadership style. He gave Wash a focus to get mad at (him), then turned around and coaxed Kaylee through her shock.

And that's my diversionary ramble for the day. Carry on.

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Friday, March 21, 2003 4:20 AM

SARAHETC

Quote:
Originally posted by Noocyte:
Hey now, SARAHETC! Can you give a ref. for that gun being part of the mule's equipment? Is there some point in an ep which I failed to notice, like someone futzing with or checking or stowing the piece?

Reason I ask, is that this could put to bed the question of where River got the ordnance in OiS...though I suppose that wouldn't wash (har-har), since everyone ELSE was so puzzled about where she got it.

Still, strains the mind, don't it.

It do. And I have to reference. That's why I said "spackled" since we were talking about how good writing lets you spackle things in.

In fact, I'll give a ref. supporting that Mal put it there specifically. In TJ, Wash uses the Mule to run that guy over. If there were a gun on it, probably he would've just used that right? Of course, there you could say, "Well, we don't know to what extent Wash digs guns." But, in WS, he certainly didn't seem to have a problem with them.

As for River finding it, that very well could be. Obviously Mal doesn't reholster the weapon as he's bleeding and suffocating. But it's a long way from OoG to OiS. Perhaps he leaves it there just in case something like that ever happens again?

But then, he seems very worked up that the gun River gets is Jayne's hardware. Is Jayne's line: "I don't leave my guns laying around, Mal, and I don't leave 'em loaded" his way of saying "not my gun." Like, is it or is it not his gun.

But I agree with Maniac too. Mal's is shocked, certainly, but he also seems surprised to see the gun there. Like, "Opportunity!"

Mind thoroughly strained.

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Friday, March 21, 2003 4:26 AM

SARAHETC

Quote:
Originally posted by Archer:

Contrast Mal's handling of the situation with, say, Picard's.

Instead of roughing Wash up and getting him to do his job, he would have felt his pain and sent the nearest convenient teenager in to take over the helm.

Then he would have held at least three extended conferences before Kaylee could come up with the proper technobabble solution.

I thought about that last night, too! Great mind, etc.

I was thinking about Kaylee specifically and her contrast to Geordi or Data. Geordi would never say "Sometimes a thing gets broke can't be fixed." Never! But in FF, it's the truth. and for humans, it's the truth. I mean, without getting to existential or maudlin, sometimes in life things get broke can't be fixed.

And yeah, I agree with the teenager remark, though Wash was kinda acting like a teenager there for a minute. Not that I blame him! He's right on. Maybe his "teenage pranks" remark was specific. Plus, you know, nobody would give Picard that kinda lip. To me, that reinforces the humanity of the situation.

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Sunday, April 13, 2003 7:03 PM

HOTFORKAYLEE

This was one of the few elements I had trouble with at first, not calling the crew back first. That's what I love about Firefly fans is the "spackle" which you have made sense of with the various explanations why he would not have done that first, and knowing (well not actually knowing Joss) but he probably thought this out before hand. Yes, in my opinion he's that damn good.

As for the Trek side, of course they would never say it could'nt be fixed. They have replicators and all sorts of things that let's be honest, are dreams and fantasies. Not to say we'll never be able to produce them in the future, but that's what I really love about Firefly, it's basically us with a ship that can travel in space and what would happen after a civil war, no Vulcans to guide us or dominion to fight with. Of course, you know they will send some flunkie to try and fix the problem because a character on Trek could never die unless you don't know him. (unlike a Whedon series) On one other Trek note, Voyager has really started to lose my interest. I think I first saw the link to an article on here that they were putting more sex and violence in the show to try and boost ratings.

As for the gun, I personally think Mal did think about the situation beforehand and was "somewhat ready" but could have done more, but, once again, how straight was he thinking by then?

Quote:
"Nothing good comes easy, Klaus."
"Nothing bad comes easy, either. I find it far more annoying when the universe makes you work for your damnation. I'd prefer it just gave it to me, save me the effort."

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Monday, April 14, 2003 4:23 AM

SERENITYVALLEY

I watched that episode last night! I also watched Jaynetown. OoG almost made me cry...almost. It's sooo sad. It's like the sinking of the Titanic or something. And when he woke up and everyone was with him, it was almost too good to be true that it seemed like they were all in Heaven or something. Anyway, I didn't think that calling them back last was weird for previously mentioned reasons. He's no mechanic. Maybe he wouldn't have been able to get the piece in right and by the time Kaylee got back, he'd be dead.

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?" -Wash
"I told him to sit down," -Simon

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