Quote:

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Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
I'm talking about continuing with facts and references. Which I've done. Which Sneaker98 seems incapable of doing. I await to be proven wrong.

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Originally posted by sneaker98:

Apparently you didn't get the memo, but I'm not stretching this debate. I don't give a crap what a *nix fanboy has to say, and that's all there is to it.

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Originally posted by sneaker98:

I don't take the high road. I take the correct road.

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Originally posted by sneaker98:

Go play with your OS, kiddo. Leave the debating to folks who can keep it in their pants.

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Originally posted by sneaker98:

Too late to take the high road, kiddo. I'll keep saying that until you get the message. But in the mean time I'm sure as hell not going to get into a silly pissing contest.

Now begone from this thread, and stop baiting me.

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Originally posted by sneaker98:
A third problem, and mostly applies to larger businesses: who exactly is going to support your product? For a home user, it may work out provided the answer to your question is in a newsgroup somewhere. But your best bet is to cross your fingers and hope to god Google finds the answer. And that's really not good enough sometimes.

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Originally posted by citizen:

Quote:

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Originally posted by sneaker98:
A third problem, and mostly applies to larger businesses: who exactly is going to support your product? For a home user, it may work out provided the answer to your question is in a newsgroup somewhere. But your best bet is to cross your fingers and hope to god Google finds the answer. And that's really not good enough sometimes.

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So basically the same as MS technical support then...

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Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
[B]@Everyone:

I found this interesting:

http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/06/03/22/1418210.shtml

Comments...

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Originally posted by sneaker98:
Lol, sometimes, yes.

Or you get a fellow with an Indian accent saying his name's Mike. *sigh* Why must they hide outsourcing? I don't care if I'm talking to someone halfway across the world, I just want some help with the product!

"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:
[B]@Sneaker98
Learn the ways of your SunOS young padawan for
"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly."
~Henry Spencer

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Originally posted by Haze:
Here’s a question. If I where to go with Linux what version would you recommend?


--------------------------------------------------
Who do you suppose is in there?

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Originally posted by Tiger:
I've been watching this thread with great interest. I'm no expert in operating systems, but I've been curious for a while about experimenting with something new, strictly from a user's perspective.

Unfortunately, in this thread one guy says "A" and the next guy says "B". Maybe it would shed some light on the subject if you have a more specific, real-world example, namely me. Should I try Linux or a Mac?

My current system:
Windows XP sp2
1 gb RAM
200 gb storage
2.4 mhz Pentium 4
dual monitors

Normal usage:
Firefox & I.E.
Email with Thunderbird
Graphic/web design with Dreamweaver, Photoshop/Illustrator, Flash
Hauppaugge TV tuner with Beyond TV to watch TV on one monitor while working or surfing on the other
Bittorrents
DVDs/music with Windows Media or VLC
Microsoft Office
DVD burning with Nero

Do you think I'd get along alright with Linux or a Mac? Would it be worth the trouble of switching and relearning?

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:

@Sigmanunki
I just love ./

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:

@All
This thread would not be complete without:
http://www.ubergeek.tv/article.php?pid=54

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Originally posted by everyworldspinnin:
Tiger,
What type of hardware are you running? If you could, post your system specs such as the type of video card you have and TV Tuner type (I know you said Haupage, but is it a PVR-250 or WinTVGo or something)etc. I'll see what I can dig up for you if you are still interested.

--------------------------------------------------
Child One: "Republicans aren't real."
Child Two: "Full well they are!"

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It seems like Linux requires a whole lot of knowledge that most people, even a pretty experienced computer user like me, just don't have and probably don't have the time to learn.

Maybe Linux is fun to play with, but I really can't see the advantage of fewer viruses and (supposed) more stability, if I can't even get the thing to start.

Am I missing something?

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But it sounds like you're just having problems with your CD burner?

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Originally posted by Tiger:
A dvd burner actually. A new one. That's ok, right? To burn the image to a DVD then boot from the DVD drive? The impression I got from PCLinuxOS FAQ is that it's actually better.

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Well, if it's a combo drive I'd use a CD-R if the .iso is CD-sized. There shouldn't be a problem either way though. Avoid re-writable disks though.
what kind of errors are you seeing, and where/when are you seeing them?

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Originally posted by Tiger:

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do they even make sata optical drives? -i'm so damned oldskool

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:

Won't even switch to Mac -don't need it. Already got a real OS

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:

Once you learn how to manage a Linux box, the freedom and control you find are simply unmatched.

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Originally posted by citizen:

The only time I've seen it is with uncompressed AVI's where the machine has to load each frame from the disk, but that wouldn't be it as wmvs and mpgs are always compressed (I think).

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Originally posted by Ruxton:

I have one *.mpg that's 1.1 meg that doesn't play, next to another *.mpg that's 1.7 meg and plays fine.

Both are on the computer. Just upgraded everything I could find from Microsoft website to no avail.

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Originally posted by citizen:

I'm assuming Ruxtons problem could be the Sound card since he said (unless I'm misreading) that the problem only occured after the Sound card was changed and he's using '95 drivers on a XP machine.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

Instability:
While Windows is certainly less stable than *nix or Mac there are very good reasons for it.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

First off people who code for Windows have to be able to support every piece of hardware in existence, Mac programmers support a much smaller base of hardware to support and people who write for Linux tend to take much greater pride in their work (they do it because they want to not because they are paid).

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

when Mac went to OSX (im running off of memory here) they had to have an emulator to run older programs and everything had to be recompiled. Backwards compatibility doesn't lend itself to stability.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

Third, M$ has to fight the end user, people who use Linux are generally much more tech-savvy than people who use Windows, they know what to do and what not to do.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

Last, the majority of instability is the fault of the programs that people run. For instance, until a couple of months ago we used AOL at my house (my parents fault not mine). That caused more than a couple of problems that have been more or less recitified since its removal.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

I will be interested to see what Vista holds.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

End users install everything that comes their way, third-party programs have holes in them, and legacy code causes problems.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

While the number of security flaws certainly is excessive, if the number of people that are now running Windows ran *nix or Mac, there is little doubt in my mind that many holes would be uncovered in them as well.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

For Mac, having a closed platform helps them keep the problems to a minimum,

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

for *nix, having millions of people across the globe working on every hole that comes up makes it a lot easier to keep secure than Windows which is just one company (albeit a very large company).

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

With SP2 M$ has gotten serious about security,

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

but they are moving in the right direction.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

As an earlier poster mentioned *nix is much more flexible than any other OS.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

But what if all I want is to be able to run my programs?

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

Somebody posted that Windows does everything automatically, while Linux lets you do everything manually, certainly a plus, if you want to have to tell your computer exactly what you want it do every step of the way.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

Mac: never felt a need to use it, I don't have stability problems, and I like games so Mac is out.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

Linux:
Pros, Extremely powerful, very stable, free software galore, free, can be tweaked to do almost anything you want

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

Cons, ALMOST anything you want, still not as easy to set up, just because I would like to able to tweak all of those settings doesn't mean that I want to HAVE to set them

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

All in all, I'm a Windows man for the forseeable future but I will be dabbling in Linux on the side.

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:
Won't even switch to Mac -don't need it. Already got a real OS

Um, pardon me.

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:

Once you learn how to manage a Linux box, the freedom and control you find are simply unmatched.

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Why don't we say *nix instead of Linux. For instance, *BSD's give as much freedom of control as the Linux's.

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Disclaimer:
The below contains some opinions, that are IMO only. It mainly gets into estetics of system configuration files and the resulting directory structure, not necessarily reflecting any functionality or lack thereof.

Some people (myself included) actually prefer the *BSD's and think that they are easier to configure (though there are Linux's with similar init script setup descibed below).

For instance, Redhat and it's derivatives with that run level crap. Don't like it at all.

What does rc.1 do again? Is it rc.4 or rc.5 scripts that are run if going directly into graphical login, while the other one isn't run? When I have to write my own script to up into whatever rc.? directory, what structure must it have? etc.

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And all that rpm mess. *shutter*

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That being said, I don't think that slackware has this problem. There are probably other distros that don't have this issue as well.

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But OpenBSD with rc.conf (common deamons here), rc.securelevel (run before kernel goes into secure mode), rc.local (run after kernel goes into secure mode) and rc.shutdown (duh!). And that's it.

The docs even state, if in doubt, put it in rc.local.

Also, if you're addicted to the rc.? stuff, then you could just write your own sh scripts to implement it for OBSD. I've seen some people do this, though I have no idea why they would want to do that to there system.

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FreeBSD can have a similar setup, though it is angling toward a similar rc.d init. FreeBSD could be described as the end-user BSD whereas OpenBSD is more of a server OS.

And both these guys have the wonders of the ports tree. *warm fuzzy feeling*

End disclaimer.


So, Tiger, if you are looking into Linux, I'd suggest that you also look into FreeBSD as well. It has a tonne of applications and if that app is in the ports tree, installing it is as easy as 'make install'.

MythTV has also been reported to work on FreeBSD.

http://mythtv.son.org/tiki-index.php

And your PVR-250 is listed as a card that works.


See:

http://www.freebsd.org/where.html

For iso's, and docs and:

http://www.freebsd.org/ports/

to search or browse the FreeBSD ports tree.

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"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Originally posted by Ruxton:
PROBLEM SOLVED!

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Bottom line, because Linux Fedora Core 1 cannot find the on-board sound for some Dell computers, one cannot simply install Linux and have everything work perfectly. One must be prepared to diddle with the box at length.

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So, I say, use Windows XP with glee, I say.

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Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Another fact, is that she was put in front of a OSX machine and told to play. She figured things out in 5-10 mins and was quite happy with it. This didn't happen when she tried to use windows at the begining of the year. She asked for a Linux machine to be set up for her.

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:

Argh! I been misconstrued....!
OSX is a real OS. Don't need it 'cuz Linux is a real OS too and I already got it working great for me. So no need for OSX here.

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:

That's certainly true. But, IMO Linux is going to be an easier transition to *nix for a Windows user.

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:

I can appreciate either approach depending on the intended useage of the platform(s) in question.

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:

Again, IMO, the "Good Enough" of Linux is still such a damned sight better than anything Microsoft can offer so I feel good about pimpin' it.

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:

I can't pimp OSX since I honestly don't know how to admin it.

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:

I just think for the purpose of this thread our Windows-using Browncoats will have an easier time learning Linux -I may well be wrong!They'd definately have an easier time learning OSX.

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:

Nor would I -but people reading this thread aren't going to be worried by their init-style :P Once again, you and I have managed to swing a thread out of userland and into kernelspace hehe.

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:

Yes again -all the BSD's have excellent documentation. Maybe it would be just as easy for Windows converts to pick up *BSD after all. OSX even easier! I just been into the Linux thing so long, that I know it a lot better. *sigh* s'what I get for being such a tweaker;]

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Originally posted by STDOUBT:

She have a sister?

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Originally posted by Ruxton:

PROBLEM SOLVED!

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Originally posted by Ruxton:

I don't do any gaming whatsoever. I just don't want to spend any more time mussing with the box than I have to.

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Originally posted by retrovertigo:
Some screenshots of the new Windows Vista beta build have leaked. Looks like MS is doing what they've always done best-- steal other guys' ideas

http://www.win-vista.net/modules.php?set_albumName=Vista5342&op=modloa
d&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

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