EUROPE VS US by Arya

TALK STORY

EUROPE VS US

POSTED BY: ARYA
UPDATED: Monday, May 15, 2006 05:51
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Sunday, May 14, 2006 12:25 AM

Hi. I was kindof reluctant to post this thread but my curiosity got the better of me. (some of my meaning may get lost during translation but I'll do my best)

I was reading the thread "is this country really ful of stupid people" and I could only agree with all that was being said.
It seems to me that Europe (or maybe I should just say 'my european country' and not speak for the rest of Europe) and the US do not differ so much as I used to think.
But there are a few things I've been wondering about for a long time now, and I'm just going to ask you all for your opinions.
First of all: what do you all think when you think about Europe? Do you think we're really different from folk in the US?
Secondly: do you ever find the lack of 'free/sheap healthcare for everyone' a problem? Or have I heard it wrong and you do have this in the US?

I'm thinking at this point that I have too many questions to post in one thread. Maybe I should seperate them.

I'm a very curious person and I ask questions about everything! So if you get tired of all the probing just say so

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 1:51 AM

KEYOKE

Quote:
Originally posted by Arya:
Hi. I was kindof reluctant to post this thread but my curiosity got the better of me. (some of my meaning may get lost during translation but I'll do my best)

I was reading the thread "is this country really ful of stupid people" and I could only agree with all that was being said.
It seems to me that Europe (or maybe I should just say 'my european country' and not speak for the rest of Europe) and the US do not differ so much as I used to think.
But there are a few things I've been wondering about for a long time now, and I'm just going to ask you all for your opinions.
First of all: what do you all think when you think about Europe? Do you think we're really different from folk in the US?
Secondly: do you ever find the lack of 'free/sheap healthcare for everyone' a problem? Or have I heard it wrong and you do have this in the US?

I'm thinking at this point that I have too many questions to post in one thread. Maybe I should seperate them.

I'm a very curious person and I ask questions about everything! So if you get tired of all the probing just say so

haha, the healthcare in England is free... doesn't make it any good.

----------------
"We feel the pain of a lifetime lost in a thousand days,
Through the fire and the flames we carry on"

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 2:30 AM

ARYA

Yes, I've heard about that. But why is that?
Too little medical personnel? Not enough medical training? The registration with a GP?...
I had an aunt living near Canterbury. She always hoped we would not get sick when we visited her. She never told us why though...

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 2:36 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Keyoke:
haha, the healthcare in England is free... doesn't make it any good.

Funnily enough for all we moan about the healthcare in this country its one of the best in the world.

Better than the US system, as shown by the few credible markers of Infant mortality and average life span.

The only healthcare system I could point to that is defiantly better on average than the UK's would be Germany’s.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 3:18 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Hi Arya, speaking as a US citizen...

Quote:
Originally posted by Arya:
...
First of all: what do you all think when you think about Europe? Do you think we're really different from folk in the US?

Depends. In terms of basic human needs like HC, no, not so much. In terms of lifestyle values and choices, a bit. But not that much. A good global indication is how universal good taste in TV programming is

Quote:
Originally posted by Arya:
Secondly: do you ever find the lack of 'free/sheap healthcare for everyone' a problem? Or have I heard it wrong and you do have this in the US?

We actually do have universal healthcare in the US and for many it's unfortunately called "The Emergency Room."

That's the worst part of our US system. If you can't afford HC you hope you don't get sick and if you do you go to the ER, which is incredibly expensive. Those costs then get shifted to those that can pay (to simplify it hugely).

Kudos to the Brits. I just saw this article:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=42717
"The British Are Much Healthier Than The Americans"

The article contains:

Here are some figures showing the incidence of some diseases:

Diabetes
USA - 12.5%
UK - 6.1%

High Blood Pressure
USA - 42.4%
UK - 33.8%

Heart Disease
USA - 15.1%
UK - 9.6%

Cancer
USA - 9.5%
UK - 5.5%

Lung Disease
USA - 8.1%
UK - 6.3%

Stroke
USA - 3.8%
UK - 2.3%

Heart Attack
USA - 5.5%
UK - 4%

The study looked at the health of 6,400 Americans and 9,300 British people aged 40-70.

Americans also spend a great deal more on health care than the British do. The average expenditure per head per year on health in the UK is $2,164, while in the USA it stands at $5,274.

You can read about this study in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), May 3 Issue.

The article concludes:
"Britain does not enjoy better levels of health when compared to many of its European neighbours."

One of my newest health heroes:

http://www.feedmebetter.com/

Some of you may have recently seen the tv shows here in the US about British chef Jamie Oliver and his obsession to improve school lunch programs - absolutely fantastic, almost made me weepy to see what those little nippers were being fed

I am aware that similar efforts are being tried in US schools. Hey! Nutritionally challenged food programs is something else we have in common!

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 3:20 AM

RALEIGHBROWNCOAT

I actually think we are more similar than different. In fact, I think that once you put aside largely superficial cultural differences, people are the same all over the world. The same things are important to all of us: shelter, food, work, and love of family.

That's why I think Firefly is so great. It speaks to these universal truths and shows us that even 500 years in the future, these same things will still be important. They are the types of things that ties us all together, even if we get in spats here and there.

Just my < $0.02.

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 5:18 AM

MONKSDAD

people are people everywere

"And I think calling him that is an insult to the psychotic lowlife community."

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 7:37 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by Keyoke:
haha, the healthcare in England is free... doesn't make it any good.

Funnily enough for all we moan about the healthcare in this country its one of the best in the world.

Better than the US system, as shown by the few credible markers of Infant mortality and average life span.

Not to disagree on any particular point, since I think "health care" in this country is horrible, but it should be taken into account that there are a lot more people here than England, which means there are more babies, which means there's likely to be more infant mortalities. If it's a percentage I really don't have an argument, but if it's just a tally our massive population should be taken into account.
I guess I do see the UK as having very different people than what I would encounter here; but, y'know, the next fricken state over has very different people. Hell, so does the next city, though not by as much. Things are bound to be a little different in another country or another culture. It just happens. Can't say for certain what every difference would be because I have not gotten the opportunity to visit Europe at all (sad me) but it's certainly interesting to ponder.

*************************************************
One summer.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

Starting June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 7:45 AM

EMBERS

I think the reason a lot of things (diabeties and high blood pressure in particular) are listed so high in the USA is because they are over diagnoised:
there is profit in it. The drug companies love a disease for which there is medication but there is no cure.
okay, I'm cynical.

to get back to the question posted:

I love Europe, I find it sophisticated, fascinating, and it is a completely different thing from one country to another (Switzerland is so completely different from Spain, and neither is anything like the UK).

The US seems more homogenized, and more commericalized... Newer but not built to last.

I love the US, I've driven all over it (well, not to Alaska...yet. But I did fly to Hawaii and drove around there some) and the people are kind and warm and open... But not perfect, there are no perfect places.

Okay, I guess that isn't helpful...and I have to run to a Mother's Day luncheon...

Do you have Mother's Day in Europe or is it just a Halmark Holiday (and excuse to sell greeting cards) here in the USA?

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse
have you checked out this thread?:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

and listen to 'I'm Going To See Serenity':
http://music.podshow.com/music/listeners/artistdetails.php?BandHash=a0
c814e1229742ce77ed4497cbf4631c

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 7:56 AM

KEYOKE

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by Keyoke:
haha, the healthcare in England is free... doesn't make it any good.

Funnily enough for all we moan about the healthcare in this country its one of the best in the world.

Better than the US system, as shown by the few credible markers of Infant mortality and average life span.

The only healthcare system I could point to that is defiantly better on average than the UK's would be Germany’s.

I have my own reasons against the NHS...

Firstly, when I was about two a doctor screwed up a routine operation on my right ear, leaving me deaf for life. My next doctor wouldn't stand up in court, the result is, they screwed up but I get nothing for it.

More recently, I was rushed into hosptial two years ago after being attacked on my way home, after doing two X-Rays they concluded I had one fracture of my cheek bone. Later that month, they called me in for the operation to fix it, X-Rayed again and found a second fracture. THEN when I was under the aneasthetic, they found two more. Apparently I could've done lasting damage if i'd have whacked it again before thye fixed it. Now I have a metal plate in my head that could've been avoided had the NHS found all four fractures early.

I feel old and bitter... Firefly time.

----------------
"We feel the pain of a lifetime lost in a thousand days,
Through the fire and the flames we carry on"

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 7:57 AM

EMMARIGBY

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

The US seems more homogenized, and more commericalized... Newer but not built to last.

Not meaning to sound patronising but I find American ideas of history to be so sweet! I used to live in 1 550 year old farmhouse. I had a friend from the US express disbelief that anyone would be allowed to live in such an old building, surely it should be a museum! Ha! It wasn't even a listed building!

Quote:

Do you have Mother's Day in Europe or is it just a Halmark Holiday (and excuse to sell greeting cards) here in the USA?

Actually it was invented in England (I think, or so I was told) back in the industrial revolution so that young girls could visit their families before Lent. It's on 26th March over here. I remembered this year!!

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 9:30 AM

ARYA

Yes, it's Mothersday today here. And my mom the greatest so we celebrated alright.
To continue my question: would you agree to pay more taxes for a better healthcaresystem?
Here we pay up to 50% of taxes on our wage. In return we only pay a little fee when we visit a hospital or a doctor.
It seems like alot of taxes but when you get sick here you're happy they have this system.
For instance; I'm due to have my baby in seven months from now and if you reckon I'll stay a full six or seven days in the hospital I'll probably pay about 150 to 200 euro's. That would be 194 dollars to 258 max. The rest is paid by the government.

Didn't Hilary C. had a program like that some time ago?

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 9:46 AM

MONKSDAD

here i the US we have tax brackets. I myself being a small business owner pay around 35% of my wage to taxes then i also pay around 200 bux a month for my health insurance. My company also pays for 100% of our employees health insurance costs. a simple doctor visit under our plan costs 15 bux, A generic perscription costs 15 bux. Sometimes I wish the would just take the extra 15% of my wage and have a nationwide healthcare system.

"And I think calling him that is an insult to the psychotic lowlife community."

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 10:08 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Not to disagree on any particular point, since I think "health care" in this country is horrible, but it should be taken into account that there are a lot more people here than England, which means there are more babies, which means there's likely to be more infant mortalities. If it's a percentage I really don't have an argument, but if it's just a tally our massive population should be taken into account.

It's a percentage, should of said Infant mortality rate, sorry. Nothing against US doctors or anything but one of the major failings in the US system is that it is not Health care it is emergency care. You wait till someone is ill before doing anything about it, rather than ensuring their good health and preventing illness.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 10:20 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Keyoke:
I have my own reasons against the NHS...

I sympathise, I really do, but you find stories like yours in all healthcare systems. The NHS isn't any worse than any other. There are better, for instance the German civil and the British millitary healthcare I'd place above the NHS, but for each f**k up there's a hundred thousand success stories. What happened to you should never of happened, but it happens everywhere, doctors and nurses are people and people f**k up, unfortunatly in most professions screwing up means you have to come in on the weekend, in the medical profession it means someone's life is affected

Quote:
I feel old and bitter... Firefly time.

I can raise a glass to that.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:23 AM

SERYN

I tend to interperate the major difference between the two as the the us system is run like a shop, and the uk system like Scrooges workshops.

The NHS is under constant budget constraints, there is too little money, too few medical staff (we have them, the NHS just can't afford to employ them cause the people incharge (government etc and execs etc) are such retards millions of pound of tax payers money is heamorraging (SP?) our of their arses before it gets anywhere near a ward or gp's office) so the doctors we have are overworked, undersupported, concerned more about costs than about investigating an illness, and quite frankly loosing the ability to care.

In america, (from what I gather) they are keen to see you, they will do whatever they can to help you because they can charge you for it, and will carry on 'helping' you until they can't any more.

So a brit goes to see their GP, they are given something to treat the symptoms, If they go again, they may have a few tests, take different drugs, if the doctor see something serious, they may be referred to a specialist, treatment is drawn out over years, as you have to be slotted in around resources and available doctors, and most of the time, you just give up and suffer (my grandfather and his father both died of a particularly hidious stomach cancer because they both got sick of their doctors and stopped going to see them until it was too late) And if your local authority can't afford a particular drug that you need than thats it, your screwed.

In america, (please correct me if i'm wrong) they will immedietly start treating symptoms and testing causes, cause thats how thay make their money, treatment is as quick as you can afford and any drug that you need, or specialist that you need to see, if your insurance covers it, then there you go.

Of course, if you don't have insurance, then your even more screwed than the brits, and god help you.

On a slightly different subject.

We had a load of tourists from somewhere in the south in the other day, and i made the comment that they were at such pains to make sure you knew they were being polite and friendly. Then one of the guys I was talking to said something like 'yeah, probably used to dealing with people who'd shoot them if they got offended'

Do you think thats really the case? Do you think thats why this culture of total pc-ism and hyper friendliness has grown? because of an increased threat of violence?

**********************************************************
Hodgins: Your robot reminds me of you. You tell it to turn it stops. You tell it to stop it turns. You ask it to take out the garbage it watches reruns of Firefly.
FozzieWash, You know what I always say: sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug!
KermieMal, I never Know what the heck you're talking about.
FozzieWash, Hey, look! They're sending us free lumber!
http://www.myspace.com/seryndippyt

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Sunday, May 14, 2006 12:00 PM

DIETCOKE

I love Europe and have worked in a number of different countries there. The people are great and the food is even better.

But when it comes to lifestyle and government, I pick USA hands down!

NY/NJ/CT Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Monday, May 15, 2006 2:20 AM

ARYA

Quote:
Some of you may have recently seen the tv shows here in the US about British chef Jamie Oliver and his obsession to improve school lunch programs - absolutely fantastic, almost made me weepy to see what those little nippers were being fed

I am aware that similar efforts are being tried in US schools. Hey! Nutritionally challenged food programs is something else we have in common!

Did you know that kids apparently revolted against the new schoollunches! Try to do some good...

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Monday, May 15, 2006 2:33 AM

ARYA

Quote:
Originally posted by raleighbrowncoat:
I actually think we are more similar than different. In fact, I think that once you put aside largely superficial cultural differences, people are the same all over the world. The same things are important to all of us: shelter, food, work, and love of family.

That's why I think Firefly is so great. It speaks to these universal truths and shows us that even 500 years in the future, these same things will still be important. They are the types of things that ties us all together, even if we get in spats here and there.

Just my < $0.02.

True, that are the most important things; although we sometimes forget...
But that's not why I liked firefly in the first place. It was because the crew does not live a life that is regarded as being proper and they're happy with that.
It took me a while but 6 months ago I decided I didn't want to participate in this commercial, materialistic society anymore. I didn't want to make loads of money anymore or buy a new cellphone every few months or have the latest IPod... And my friends/family thought I was going nuts! They didn't understand.
I quit my job at some commercial corporate firm and sold my car; I got a parttime job in a retirement home nearby where I also volunteer.
I turned my garden into a grocery store and started baking my own bread.
And you know what? I feel great! And I sleep better!
So who cares what other people think! And that's what I like about Firefly.
Does that make any sense?

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Monday, May 15, 2006 2:56 AM

SERYN

no it is great, I'm amazed when people manage to do that, I just can't see a way out of my situation short well, I was going to say running away and starting over, but thats equally as stupid as any other option. So with out sounding corny, well done and I'm glad that you are happy.

**********************************************************
Hodgins: Your robot reminds me of you. You tell it to turn it stops. You tell it to stop it turns. You ask it to take out the garbage it watches reruns of Firefly.
FozzieWash, You know what I always say: sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug!
KermieMal, I never Know what the heck you're talking about.
FozzieWash, Hey, look! They're sending us free lumber!
http://www.myspace.com/seryndippyt

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Monday, May 15, 2006 3:09 AM

ARYA

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

I love Europe, I find it sophisticated, fascinating, and it is a completely different thing from one country to another (Switzerland is so completely different from Spain, and neither is anything like the UK).

The US seems more homogenized, and more commericalized... Newer but not built to last.

I love the US, I've driven all over it (well, not to Alaska...yet. But I did fly to Hawaii and drove around there some) and the people are kind and warm and open... But not perfect, there are no perfect places.

Okay, I guess that isn't helpful...and I have to run to a Mother's Day luncheon...

Do you have Mother's Day in Europe or is it just a Halmark Holiday (and excuse to sell greeting cards) here in the USA?

We're not more sophisticated than any other parts of the world.
Americans are the most inviting, welcoming people I had the pleasure of meeting.
But the media doesn't show people here a very good image of the US. And then they forget that most american are just the same as us, which is a pity. And I thought that maybe the media in the US was doing the same thing with Europe...

Mothersday is not really a hallmarkholiday where I live. Mothers here get flowers and big kisses from their grandchildren! We bake applepie and have a nice cup of coffee in the backyard.
We even have two motherdays a year! Is that the same overthere?

I wish I could visit the US again sometime soon. I've only been to LA and Oklahoma and that was 8 years ago. I loved it!
I stayed with a Korean family so the food I got wasn't really american. More rice and seaweed...

Although what do you consider to be real american food?

Don't think that the US is more commericalized then some parts of Europe. It's starting to become a real problem here. And I hate it!
I try to not become a part of that but it's not always easy.
But you are right about one thing: it is a completely different thing from one country to another.
We drive three hours and where in Paris; or eight hours and where in Austria! A whole other culture and way of life!
But we don't travel that often nowadays.
And I have a softspot for Italy, so it pains me if we can't go there this year. But you can't have it all...

Btw, you're not cynical at all. You tell it just the way it is!

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Monday, May 15, 2006 3:17 AM

ARYA

Quote:
Originally posted by seryn:
no it is great, I'm amazed when people manage to do that, I just can't see a way out of my situation short well, I was going to say running away and starting over, but thats equally as stupid as any other option. So with out sounding corny, well done and I'm glad that you are happy.

It wasn't as easy as it sounds, but still thanks.

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Monday, May 15, 2006 3:21 AM

CHOO1701

both sides have good or bad pionts (without much experience on the othjer side of the "Pond", i can't really judge about healthcare, customs, etc... )

But i think is sure: In both cultures its technically impossible to be a true "Europoen" or "American". Both are a mixture of different cultures (Indian, Italian, CHinese, Russian, etc...).

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Monday, May 15, 2006 3:44 AM

ARYA

Quote:
Originally posted by Choo1701:

But i think is sure: In both cultures its technically impossible to be a true "Europoen" or "American". Both are a mixture of different cultures (Indian, Italian, CHinese, Russian, etc...).

Yes, but there is such a thing as an american citizen; there is no such thing as a european citizen (yet). We're all italian, french, dutch, greek,... That makes us interesting but at the same time very weak.

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Monday, May 15, 2006 3:51 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Arya:

It took me a while but 6 months ago I decided I didn't want to participate in this commercial, materialistic society anymore. I didn't want to make loads of money anymore or buy a new cellphone every few months or have the latest IPod... And my friends/family thought I was going nuts! They didn't understand.
I quit my job at some commercial corporate firm and sold my car; I got a parttime job in a retirement home nearby where I also volunteer.
I turned my garden into a grocery store and started baking my own bread.

Hey! - that sounds like one of my fav British shows:
Good Neighbors
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000784WKO/qid=1147700247/sr=8-1/ref=
pd_bbs_1/002-1984007-9161655?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130

Saw that show here in the states when I was a youngin' - loved it for it's humor and the anti-capitalist-don't-be-a-cog philosophy, which I was happy/suprised to see existed in the UK as well.

Oh, one other note about the polite southeners you met... no, they're not polite because they're worried about being shot! *Love* the myths others have about the US

YeeeHaw!

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, May 15, 2006 4:09 AM

CHOO1701

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:

Hey! - that sounds like one of my fav British shows:
Good Neighbors
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000784WKO/qid=1147700247/sr=8-1/ref=
pd_bbs_1/002-1984007-9161655?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130

Saw that show here in the states when I was a youngin' - loved it for it's humor and the anti-capitalist-don't-be-a-cog philosophy, which I was happy/suprised to see existed in the UK as well.

Oh, one other note about the polite southeners you met... no, they're not polite because they're worried about being shot! *Love* the myths others have about the US
YeeeHaw!

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com]

Good Neighbours is actually called "The Good Life" (no idea why the title was changed)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_Life

oh, and not all us "Brits" are happy and clappy...we have our "dodgy" people as well

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Monday, May 15, 2006 4:43 AM

ARYA

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:

Oh, one other note about the polite southeners you met... no, they're not polite because they're worried about being shot! *Love* the myths others have about the US YeeeHaw!

Don't know that show. I'll look into it. My husband also wanted to sell the tv but I put my foot down on that notion. No Firefly... ever! Even the thought makes me go faint!

Oh,
They did shoot the others for trespassing, but not me... I'm cute!

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Monday, May 15, 2006 4:52 AM

THUNDER

I have a question for you. Do you think gun control is working or do you think Britain screwed up?

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Monday, May 15, 2006 5:51 AM

ARYA

Quote:
Originally posted by Thunder:
I have a question for you. Do you think gun control is working or do you think Britain screwed up?

I'm not British so I haven't got a clue were Britain screwed up. Care to elaborate?

But for my opinion on the topic: it's clear that supple weaponlaws and everybody owning one does not make a safe society, rather the opposite..

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