Theatrical vs. Director's Cuts by reginaroadie

TALK STORY

Theatrical vs. Director's Cuts

POSTED BY: REGINAROADIE
UPDATED: Thursday, June 29, 2006 17:27
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Sunday, June 25, 2006 4:25 PM

This weekend, I was thinking about how with the advent of DVD that director or alternate cuts of movies are readily available for people. And how it's become both a blessing and a burden. A blessing in that we can see mangled masterpieces the way they were intended (basically any of Orson Welles's later works and the upcoming 3 disc edition of BLADE RUNNER, which apparantly will have 3 versions of the movie. The theatrical version, the 92 Director's cut [which apparantly was just a marketing thing], and a brand new, definitive final cut), and a curse in that we see movies that we've grown up with sometimes mangled (Although I personally have no problem with the revised STAR WARS movies, a lot of people still are livid by them , and it's become this big can of worms that I'd rather not deal with.).

So the question I'm asking is this. What are some Director's Cut's you prefer over the original theatrical versions? And what are some movies that you think the original ones were perfect and shouldn't be changed?

For me, one recent film that has a Director's Cut far superior to the theatrical release is ALMOST FAMOUS. On the Almost Famous Untitled edition, the director's cut of the film is a whole lot better than the original version. It add's a lot more scenes in the film that makes the movie breathe and gives it a bit more depth with each of the characters.

One director's cut that I both enjoy and have a tiny problem with is the one for AMADEUS, which is my all time favorite movie. Now, the director's cut adds about twenty minutes to the movie and has a lot of changes for the better. It's interesting to see whole new scenes in the movie that add extra dimensions to other moments. Like there's a new scene where Salieri exploits and humiliates Constanza to get to Mozart, and it not only shows how much she loves Mozart, but adds more venom to the line she says later in the movie, "I'm afraid we have no servants to show you out." And when you see how low Mozart has sunk, when he's confronted by his father about his life in Vienna, you see how desperate Mozart's becoming. So all of these moments help make the movie richer. Like there's this one exchange between Salieri and Mozart in which Mozart derides a colleague by saying he's a fool and a complete mediocrity. And Salieri replies with "No, no. He has yet to achieve mediocrity." Which I think is a better insult. Instead of saying that Michael Bay or Brett Ratner is a hack, you should say that they have yet to achieve hack-dom.

But there's one line that's taken out that ticks me off. It's during Salieri's speech where he denounces God. It's so perfect. Both the prose and how F. Murray Abraham delivers it. "From now on, we are enemies. You and I. Because you choose for your instrument a boastful, lustful, smutty, infantile boy, and give me for reward only the ability to recognize the incarnation. Because you are unjust...unfair...unkind...I will block you. I swear it. I will hinder and harm your creature on Earth as far as I am able." Now, in the director's cut, the speech stops right there and you actually see Salieri doing all he can to discredit and ruin Mozart's reputation so much that Mozart's only patron is this rich nobleman who hires Mozart to instruct his daughter, but Mozart ends up only placating his dogs, which makes Mozart leave with a champagne bottle. And then you see Mozart walking down the streets of Vienna with a bottle in his hands. But in the theatrical cut, the speech goes on further with the one line of "I will ruin...your incarnation." That line still gives me chills to this day. And then after the line, it goes to Mozart as he's walking down the street. Now, I like the Director's cut in that you actually see Salieri screwing Mozart over (first rule of filmmaking, show and not tell), but I just love that one line so much because you see how bloodthirsty Salieri is in wanting to destroy Mozart. For me, in a perfect world, the line would still be in there and you see Salieri screwing Mozart over.

And one re-cut of a movie that really ticks me off was the recent documentary GRIZZLE MAN. In the theatrical cut, there's a snippet of Tim Treadwell appearing on Letterman, with Dave asking him when they're going to hear about him being eaten by a bear. At the time, it was played for laughs, but in the context of the movie, it's prophetic. But in the DVD cut of the film, it's taken out and replaced with a bit he did with Tom Brokaw. The moive still has the same emotional power, but the Letterman bit was one of the best parts of the documentary.

And one DVD that really shows the power of editing is the Criterion Edition of BRAZIL, where it has both Gilliam's definitive final cut of the film, and the 'Love Conquer's All' version that shows what the movie might have looked like if Gilliam had lost the battle of Brazil with Sid Sheinberg. And it's just fantastic to see how a cut that was supposed to make the movie more accessible to the general public ends up just butchering the flick and making it even more of an incomprehensible mess.

I've heard that later this year, they're planning releasing a Director's cut of BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN. I kinda think this is a bit unnecessary, since the theatrical release of teh film was perfect as it is. And the whole "Unrated Edition" that they have of some DVD's I think are just a huge scam. Normally, these just consist of inserts of stuff that doesn't change the film overall. If they didn't point it out in the commentary, then you wouldn't notice it.

So what are some movies whose Director Cut's you prefer, and what are some original cuts you prefer? Try not to say STAR WARS too much.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"There's only one "Return" ok, and it ain't "of the King", it's "of the Jedi."

"Maybe we should start calling your friend 'Padme' because he loves 'Mannequin Skywalker' so much, Right? (imitating robot) Danger...danger...my name is Anakin...my shitty acting is ruining saga."

Excerpt of internet teaser for CLERKS 2.i

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 4:33 PM

CHRISISALL

Director's cuts that RULE:
Star Trek: The Motion Picture
Superman: The Movie

Director's cuts that vastly improve:
Daredevil
Robocop
Blade Runner (Tho I still like the Theatrical)
Alien
Supergirl

Director's cuts that just change stuff:
Legend
All Star Wars

Director's cuts that still suck:
Elektra

More to come Chrisisall

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 4:35 PM

PENGUIN

Leon the Professional...It changes the story slightly, and I like it better than the original.

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 4:45 PM

REGINAROADIE

Both ones are good mentions. ST: TMP had so many different versions, and the recent DVD of it really cleaned everything up and made it a much better flick. And the new FX managed to blend in well with the 79 SFX so that it wasn't to jarring.

As for LEGEND, I think that the director's cut on that was far better than the original one. Replacing the Tangerine Dream music (any 80's movie that has a musical score done by an 80's band immediately dates itself, I notice) with Jerry Goldsmith's lush score and holding off seeing the Prince of Darkness until he steps out of the mirror to me consititutes a way better movie.

Ridley has that rep of having his movie's butchered. I always thought that he'd have enough clout to have a final cut clause in his contract.

As for BLADE RUNNER, I'll give it one more shot with the upcoming DVD, but as of now, I'm still not impressed. I know it's beautiful looking and was a revolutionary piece of sci-fi when it came out, but just seems cold to me. It's the same problem I had with THE MATRIX. It had no heart.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"There's only one "Return" ok, and it ain't "of the King", it's "of the Jedi."

"Maybe we should start calling your friend 'Padme' because he loves 'Mannequin Skywalker' so much, Right? (imitating robot) Danger...danger...my name is Anakin...my shitty acting is ruining saga."

Excerpt of internet teaser for CLERKS 2.

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Monday, June 26, 2006 4:01 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:

As for LEGEND, I think that the director's cut on that was far better than the original one. Replacing the Tangerine Dream music (any 80's movie that has a musical score done by an 80's band immediately dates itself, I notice) with Jerry Goldsmith's lush score and holding off seeing the Prince of Darkness until he steps out of the mirror to me consititutes a way better movie.

Difference here is that Scott was 'talked into' producing a 'leaner' version of his original cut, it wasn't a hack job overseen by the studio. The theatrical version was his theatrical version, that's why it works for me. Tangerine Dream was brought in and they used Jerry (a legend in his own right) Goldsmith's score as a template, and in doing so, produced the best film score they would ever write.
So in the end, I can watch either version and enjoy.

Mother Night, fold your Dark arms about me Chrisisall, Mega-Legend fan

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Monday, June 26, 2006 4:12 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Do we count the extnended editions for LOTR as directors cut?

If we do, the extended versions were so much better! Not that the theatrical versions weren't fantastic!

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Monday, June 26, 2006 4:31 AM

CHRISISALL

HOW COULD I FORGET?!?!

The Director's cuts of Aliens and Terminator 2 and The Abyss...

Totally awsome Cameron greatness!!!

Battle Angel is to come Chrisisall

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Monday, June 26, 2006 4:43 AM

ORPHEUS

Director's Cuts are tricky things. These days, most of them are just marketing ploys that the studio asks for. There are some out there that are honest-to-god real director's cuts, and most of those tend to be good.

My favorite Director's Cuts:

Brazil (Though I've always preferred the VHS ending)
Daredevil (Just a better film)
The Frighteners (The last act makes so much more sense)
Hellboy (Like Daredevil, it's just more complete)
Kingdom of Heaven (Two words: Massive overhaul)

But one Director's Cut that's always bothered me is the one for Army of Darkness. A lot of the cuts they changed just don't work, and they even got rid of my favorite line for a severely worse line:

"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun"
Has been changed to
"I'm not that good."

____________________

"Bible, Wrath of Khan, what's the difference?"

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Monday, June 26, 2006 5:08 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Orpheus:

But one Director's Cut that's always bothered me is the one for Army of Darkness. A lot of the cuts they changed just don't work, and they even got rid of my favorite line for a severely worse line:

"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun"
Has been changed to
"I'm not that good."

Get me started, why don't ya?
I LOVE that movie! But the Director's cut is problematic.
I adore all the additional footage and extended scenes, BUT...
NONE of it is worth losing the lines:

"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun."
"Yeah, and maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot."
"Hail to the king, baby."

I just have to go with the theatrical, every time!

Did you say the words right this time Chrisisall

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Monday, June 26, 2006 7:41 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

The thing that comes to mind for me as both good and bad (though neither to a great degree) is Aliens.

On the one hand the added pre-shitt-hitting-fan scenes of the colony take away from it for me, on the other hand in the theatircal cut when I'm watching the scenes after the drop ship crash I just keep on feeling there's something wrong, the movie feels like there are parts missing that conversations end and begin in places that they shouldn't.

I feel that way becasue in the theatrical cut there's something wrong, there are parts missing, and the conversations end and begin in places that they shouldn't.

In the Special Edition you don't have that feeling becasue the stuff that was cut out for no reason other than time constraints was put right back in.

That makes that entire section of the movie quite a bit better for me, it isn't the added content that makes me prefer the special addition for that part, it's the fact that it no longer feels disjointed.

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 4:30 AM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Do we count the extnended editions for LOTR as directors cut?

If we do, the extended versions were so much better! Not that the theatrical versions weren't fantastic!

FMF, I'd say the extended versions definitely count as Director's Cuts. And you're right, those were all excellent. What really makes them great (in my opinion) is the behind-the-scenes footage. Learning about how they created the props and minatures, casting, sets, etc., was really fascinating. Well worth the investment.

**************************************************

This is my story...

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:23 AM

SIMONWHO

I'm going to go with the rough cut of Serenity, just because I know I'm never likely to see it again, nor is anyone else, therefore you can't prove me wrong.

Boy do I wish I'd smuggled a tape recorder into the screening. Even just getting the audio...

Ah well. I like most director's cuts. But Lucas's? No. Somebody stop him.

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:37 AM

CHRISISALL

I have faith that an 'extended' edition will make it's way to us...Universal likes cashy money.

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:37 AM

EST120

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
The Director's cuts of Aliens and Terminator 2 and The Abyss...

Of those three, I have only seen the Director's Cut of Aliens and it does explain some more stuff (especially with Ripley and her over-protectiveness (is that a word?!) of Newt) so I agree, it is pretty good.

In general, I like Director's Cuts because if I liked the movie in the first place, the Director's Cut gives me more to watch.

One instance where I have not been all hat enthusiastic about seeing the Director's Cut is actually with the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I am just not all that interested in watching even MORE movie. The theatrical 9.5 hours is enough for me.

What bugs me the most about Director's Cuts is how expensive some of them are. I am really not interested in paying $30 for a DVD, even if it does come with 2 discs and lots of extras. In truth, besides deleted scenes and outtakes, I do not really watch the extras.

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:46 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Have you SEEN the LOTR extended editions? They add a lot more information, flesh out some scenes and add immesurably to the story. I will only watch the extended versions now and can't wait til they comeout with the SUPER DUPER ALL IN ONE edition :)

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:47 AM

SIMONWHO

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I have faith that an 'extended' edition will make it's way to us...Universal likes cashy money.

Chrisisall

The trouble is that there isn't much more to put it, but there is a reasonable amount to recut - i.e. very little that you can watch and say "That's different" but changes in pace in the rough cut which was slower, had more time with the characters.

It wouldn't work as a movie with every frame that was shot but there are moments that are lost now - the Operative happily confirming his identity, telling Dr Mathius that he knows they've had problems with security; the expression on the twin's faces as the Operative approaches them with a scalpel; the troops demanding orders at the end, River's grip tightening and everything fading to white; the funeral scene giving each character a moment to say goodbye to Wash and Book, culminating in fireworks, turning into sparks from Zoe's torch. Small moments, lost like tears in the rain.

Time to ... wait, that's a different franchise. But I miss that cut. That was the movie as I first saw it and in my head, that's how it will be. Which sort of undermines the point of director's cuts.

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:52 AM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Have you SEEN the LOTR extended editions? They add a lot more information, flesh out some scenes and add immesurably to the story. I will only watch the extended versions now and can't wait til they comeout with the SUPER DUPER ALL IN ONE edition :)

I actually think there is a all-in-one extended edition set for LOTR. I'm pretty sure I saw it at Target a few weeks ago.

**************************************************

This is my story...

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:55 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

BLASPHEMER! How would I NOT KNOW! LOL now I will have to search the net. Thankee!

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:39 AM

EST120

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Have you SEEN the LOTR extended editions? They add a lot more information, flesh out some scenes and add immesurably to the story. I will only watch the extended versions now and can't wait til they comeout with the SUPER DUPER ALL IN ONE edition :)

I saw part of the first one. After reading the books, I guess there is not much to add to the movies.

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 8:01 AM

JUTIN77

Once you see the special edition of "The Abyss"... the theatrical edition really doesn't make sense.

Nowadays, I prefer the theatricial edition to most movies... "The 40 Year Old Virgin" got an extended edition that is just a long snooze fest.

"Underworld" features additional scenes that just slow the movie down, even the director says on the commentary that he wish they hadn't included many of those scenes.

"Blade Trinity", while I prefer the alternate ending used in the extended edition, the rest of the restored footage seems to break the flow of the film.

Oh, I get it.. there are unrated editions being released every week and mostly they are not the way to go... we're trying to sort out the good ones.

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 8:26 AM

BSCPANTHERFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I have faith that an 'extended' edition will make it's way to us...Universal likes cashy money.

Chrisisall

I hope that they do something along those lines. The thing that disappointed me the most(since I never got to see an advance screening, although I have read the script that it came from), was the lack of commentary by any of our Big Damn Heroes.

So who is he?
He's my husband.
Well who in the damn galaxy ain't!

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 8:49 AM

OPPYH

Conan The Barbarian Collector's Edition. Even better than the original. Watching movies I love in a whole new way is always great(except for Legend).

I heard Warner Brothers are re-releasing all 4 Superman films this Fall on dvd. Each will be a 2 disc set with new features. Including the extended edition of Superman 2. Can't wait.

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Thursday, June 29, 2006 2:43 PM

REGINAROADIE

The only SERENITY I've seen is the theatrical version. And to me, that was good enough. Some of the deleted scenes they had I think were wisely cut. Like the extended Simon/River scene where it goes further and it ends with her screaming "EVERYTHING". I know it was intended to be scary, but for me, it just seemed a bit laughable and over the top. So I'm glad that it was cut.

Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"There's only one "Return" ok, and it ain't "of the King", it's "of the Jedi."

"Maybe we should start calling your friend 'Padme' because he loves 'Mannequin Skywalker' so much, Right? (imitating robot) Danger...danger...my name is Anakin...my shitty acting is ruining saga."

Excerpt of internet teaser for CLERKS 2.

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Thursday, June 29, 2006 5:27 PM

JAGFAN98

Two Director's Cuts that were much better than theatrical version:

ALMOST FAMOUS
KINGDOM OF HEAVEN

"She's in Congress?"

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