Joss has daddy issues (all three series involved) by reginaroadie

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Joss has daddy issues (all three series involved)

POSTED BY: REGINAROADIE
UPDATED: Thursday, August 24, 2006 20:20
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Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:20 PM

Hey all

When you're spiking railroads in 30 degree heat (that's in celcius), your mind tends to wander. Invariably, I got to thinking about Joss and the three shows he gave us. And as I was thinking about BUFFY/ANGEL/FIREFLY, I was thinking about the things that I like and dislike about Joss's work and what I would discuss with him if I ever got the chance to sit down with him and have a prolonged discussion with him and not a five second, can-I-get-your-autograph encounter.

The characterizations, the subversion of genre and the Douglas Adams-type humor I absolutely love. It's what keeps me coming back for more. But the atheism, the completely random killing off of fave characters and the daddy issues is what keeps me from changing my handle name to JOSSISAGOD2. Now, the first two issues I can handle, but it's this third issue is what keeps me from being a die-hard fan.

In one of my earlier threads, where I expressed my opinions on BUFFY season by season, I noted in particular one episode of season 5 called "Family" in where Tara's folks showed up and was revealed that all the men in her family have been subjugating their women and their wiccan powers by telling them that their demonspawn. And the show ends with Tara siding with the Scoobies, saying that shw considered them to be her true "family". It was this ep that caught my eye because it basically screamed at me that Joss has daddy issues. At first I thought that he had a problem with biological families, since nearly all his characters are from broken or dysfunctional homes. But as I thought about it and looked closer, I realized that he doesn't have a problem with biological families, but with father figures. Think about it, Buffy dad cheated on Joyce and split and didn't even show up at her funeral, we never hear about Willow's dad, Xander's dad is a drunken lout, Angel and Wes's dads dissaproved of them, Cordelia's dad cheated the IRS thus losing the family fortune (which considering how Coredlia transformed from a spoiled brat to a champion wasn't too bad), all that we know about Lorne's father is that he made the famous comment of "We ate the wrong son.", Mal's dad was nonexistent (I always imagined that if we were to meet Mal's father, he'd be played by non other than William Shatner [Harrison Ford would be too expensive] as sort of a INDY JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE nod) and Gabriel Tam essentially sold his children out to the Alliance.

With the exception of Fred's dad, basically all of the fathers in his work are more demonized than the demons themselves. Even Giles and Angel can't help but let down their proverbial children (although personally I was glad to see the backside of Connor who was even more of a whiny brat than Dawn).

Thus Joss, along with other directors like Steven Spielberg and Ang Lee for example, is one of those guys who has daddy issues and decides to deal with it through his work. Now, I'm all for having an artist explore his psyche and personal issues and feelings through his work. The more personal, thebetter I always say. But it's when it get's repetitive over and over again that it starts to become grating. Spielberg and Lee eventually moved on. They got over it. But Joss at times with his issues gets a bit repetitive. Essentially, his work boils down to three statements. "God is dead, fuck you dad and power to the pussy." Now I know Joss's feminist slant is what makes him who he is, and I respect him for that. But at times, he's thematically like Andy off of THE 40 YEAR OLD VIRGIN. He's putting the pussy on a pedestal. He doesn't need to idealize it to the point where all the other male characters seem like eunuchs.

Getting back to the thread topic, I guess it's more of a personal thing for me. I've been thinking a bit about my dad lately, and I've come to the conclusion that my Dad is a really great guy. I find that if I have something bothering me that I can ask him about it and he can help me out. He's everything a father should be. And I think it's just lazy and a bit pathetic when someone whines and complains about how their dad sucked adn that they wern't around al all that. Well all I gotta say to that is boo fucking hoo. I barely saw my dad when I was growing up. You know why? Because he was across the road at the seed cleaning plant, basically building a small business that has become very profitable for my family and has basically funded the cushy lifestyle I have. I owe so much to him. So I think that it would be a spit in the face and an insult to him if I were to be constantly saying "I hate my dad" in my work.

And I realize that not everyone has had a good of a relationship with their dads as I have had with mine. But I think it's healthier to actually confront the issue rather than whine about how badly daddy treated them when they were kids through their artistic work. Yeah you're probably ingratiating yourself to all the kids with divorced parents, but at the same time you're alienating yourself from those who actually love their dads.

Am I alone in this? Does anyone else see this in Joss' work and thinks that the villification of fathers in pop culture is just incredibly lazy armchair psychology? Do any of you guys happen to actually like your dads?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"There's only one "Return" ok, and it ain't "of the King", it's "of the Jedi."

"Maybe we should start calling your friend 'Padme' because he loves 'Mannequin Skywalker' so much, Right? (imitating robot) Danger...danger...my name is Anakin...my shitty acting is ruining saga."

Excerpt of internet teaser for CLERKS 2.

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Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:29 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Joss likes (liked? loved?) his dad - a lot. There's a video on YouTube (the Equality Now speech he gives) where he says that part of the reason he's been inspired to write strong female characters is that his father was one of those good guys that didn't see women as below them (or something to that effect).

---

I'm a trouble-maker; Kaneman said so!

::points to 'I'm a trouble-maker' sticker on shirt and makes a platypus noise::

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Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:39 PM

REGINAROADIE

Yeah, but he mentions it after he first lists his mom as being the #1 influence on his life. The whole thing about his dad and stepdad were more of asides than tributes. And to me, the proof is in the pudding. It's more in the depictions than what he says.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"There's only one "Return" ok, and it ain't "of the King", it's "of the Jedi."

"Maybe we should start calling your friend 'Padme' because he loves 'Mannequin Skywalker' so much, Right? (imitating robot) Danger...danger...my name is Anakin...my shitty acting is ruining saga."

Excerpt of internet teaser for CLERKS 2.

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Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:46 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Well... then, I don't know what else to say about it. Maybe he finds it difficult to villianize mothers (because of his own mother's influence) and his only real option is fathers. In fact, he doesn't really have a whole lot of female villians (Patience looks kind of like a man, don't'cha thing?), does he? Interesting...

Another explaination (and here I'm reaching) is that maybe most of his friends have had bad experiences with their fathers, and he's sypathizing through his work (hey, I warned you it was gonna be bizzare!).

Besides, it's not as if Mother Tam couldn't have been in on selling River out. Jayne gets a hat from his mother (because it would be weird - and less funny/strange if he got it from his father).

He could also be trying to sympathize with those who have bad fathers (they seem to be more prevalent than bad mothers; but, maybe that's just the press coverage). Maybe it's one of the tools he uses for the realistic qualities in his work.

Maybe it's something subconscious that has nothing to do with anything...

---

I'm a trouble-maker; Kaneman said so!

::points to 'I'm a trouble-maker' sticker on shirt and makes a platypus noise::

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Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:48 PM

KANEMAN

I love his work. I do agree he has "male" issues. My guess, and it is just a guess, is that he was molested by the man next door, rescued by the girl down the street, only to be molested by that girls' brother. Well, it could be true!

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Thursday, August 24, 2006 6:03 PM

ANONYMOUS1

reginaroadie,

Don't you think Mal is a father figure. Serenity his home. The crew is his family. Jayne the wayward son who the father should space but decides not too. The father decides to give his wayward son another chance.

This scene:

War Stories:

Sorry from memory.

Mal and Inara on the catwalk in the cargo bay. Kaylee running around chasing River.

Mal says something like: Ah, the pitter-patter of tiny feet in big combat boots.

Mal yells SHUT UP. No one shuts up and the kids continue running. Inara looking on and not saying anything. Smiling.

Kaylee chases River right past Mal and Inara. Mal says something like Somebody falls and dies, I'm not picking it up.

Couldn't ya just see the same seen with Mal and Inara's kids happening in the future. Or Mal and Inara on the catwalk watching their own and Simon and Kaylee's kids playing hoop ball.

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Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:15 PM

GWEK

Have you seen an episode of "Lost"? Now THERE is a show with father issues...

Seriously, though, I don't think that Joss has father issues, particularly. One of the threads that's in all three of his shows is the idea of "created family", and as a consequence, most of his characters have weak and/or detached family lives in order to further "created family."

I'll grant that in Firefly, Mal implies that his father wasn't around to raise him, but I don't know that it's fair to read anything into that. Mal himself is, as mentioned earlier, a father figure of sorts to the crew (and a *relatively* positive one at that). Further, Book is essentially a positive paternal figure to a number of the crew as well, most notably Mal and Jayne.

In BtVS, Buffy's father is largely absent, but, again, I believe this is because he'd've gotten in the way of the idea of "created family" in general and Giles' role in particularly. It's been years since I've last seen the movie, but I seem to remember Buffy's mom being the worse of the two. Giles is clear paternal figure in BtVS, and I don't recall him really failing any of those under his care. He watches them grow, helps them prosper, then, when he needs to, steps aside to allow them their moment in the sun (like any good parent).

In AtS, I think that Angel (the most obvious paternal figure) does everything in his power to do the right thing, ultimately sacrificing a great deal for his stupid, useless, annoying son. Wes is also a bit of a paternal figure, in my opinion (particularly when Connor is a baby), and while is decisions are ultimately wrong, they are always well-intentioned.

I'd say that Whedon doesn't have a father issue at all, but has a desire to look at things from a different angle (leading to his idea of "created family," attempts to breakdown certain stereotypes--male AND female, etc.).

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:20 PM

KANEMAN

I disagree. I still think his neighbor porked him when he was in his early teens. Well, it could be true.

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