Online Writing Games: RPG vs TTW by Succatash

TALK STORY

Online Writing Games: RPG vs TTW

POSTED BY: SUCCATASH
UPDATED: Thursday, March 18, 2004 22:42
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VIEWED: 2279
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Wednesday, March 17, 2004 4:44 PM

I happen to prefer TTW. Channain seems to prefer RPG. I'd like her feedback! Most of you don't know that I secretly contacted Channain and begged, tried magic, everything to get her to join TTW - but it didn't work.

I think both writing games are great, but rather different.

From my limited experience, I would say that Role Playing allows the player to retain control of his/her character much better than Take Turns Writing.

The downside of RPG for me is that everything truly is moved based, like a chess game, and the writing is in the present tense. It's more of a game than a story. Please feel free to disagree or explain things to me.

I'd rather sacrifice control of a particular character, in order to share control of ALL the characters. It can certainly lead to chaos, it's true.

I have deep appreciation and respect for writing fun of any kind. It's good for the brain.

Is this an accurate thing to say?

RPG: "The Game is the Story."
TTW: "The Story is the Game."

Or did I get that backwards? What's YOUR thoughts?

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Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:02 PM

SIGMANUNKI

I think that you are comparing apples and oranges here. RPG has it's ups and downs depending on which system you use in which universe, etc. TTW, can lead in any direction depending on how people are feeling that day and how many participate.

Which one you do depends on your goals and what you find to be fun. But, I wouldn't call TTW a game in the traditional sense. More of a literary exercise.

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If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!

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Wednesday, March 17, 2004 7:19 PM

SUCCATASH

I see what you are saying. TTW is not a "traditional" game, sure. However, even though TTW is not truly a "game," it is a form of entertainment that transcends a mere writing exercise.

I have very limited knowledge of the RPG experience. All I know is FFF and the Gunrunners.

I'd say we are comparing oranges to tangerines.

And the tangerines I'm eating don't have seeds. I'm not sure what that means.

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Wednesday, March 17, 2004 7:39 PM

AERRIN

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:

RPG: "The Game is the Story."
TTW: "The Story is the Game."

Or did I get that backwards? What's YOUR thoughts?

I think you're actually pretty close here, although it's perhaps not as 'I control my character' as you seem to be thinking. I generally find that the best RPs are the ones where players are talking to each other and digging deep into the psyche of characters to find out what really makes them tick, and eventually it all starts working together. The game may be the story, but the emphasis is still pretty heavily on the story.

Really, though, it's hard to even talk about RPG without being more specific - are you talking about email or board based RPG? Are you talking about LJ or journal based RPG? Are you talking about a M*, where scenes happen slightly more real-time? The differences are worlds apart, really. Which sort of RPG you play is going to drastically affect how you see things - playing by email or board is an entirely different experience from playing on a M*.

That was probably quite useless. But there you have it. ;)

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Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:25 PM

SERGEANTX

I can't speak for the types of RPG you're talking about here, as they are more like fan fics than the original form of the hobby. First generation roleplaying games (Dungeons and Dragons and the like) and their modern progeny differ from narrative storytelling primarily in the viewpoint the player adopts.

For TTW it seems that its the overall story that's the point. It's interactive in the sense of collaboration, but it doesn't seem to me like roleplaying in that no one particular role is adopted by a given player. But even the roleplaying of the kind that goes on here is a different animal than the old style table top games and I think it loses something in the translation.

The whole idea of the complex rules systems of the table top games is to give a sense of independent reality to the imagined worlds. The illusion of objectivity fostered by the rules helps to suspend disbelief and allow a player to explore an imagined world through the eyes of a created character. It's the synergy of combining the independent decisions of player characters with a world interpreted through the complexity of the rules system that creates the fun. Sometimes that produces good story telling, sometimes its just hack-n-slash, but it's the opportunity for a player to step into the shoes of a fictional character that makes it 'roleplaying'.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:49 AM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
...Sometimes that produces good story telling, sometimes its just hack-n-slash...

I've found through my RPG experience that weather the game turns into a hack-n-slash or "real" role playing is largely due to the person running the game.

For instance, myself and the guy running a Shadowrun campaign sided more for the role playing aspect but the 3 other guys liked (and really only played) the hack-n-slash type. But, through how the GM ran the game it lead to a campaign that sided with role playing, though I think it was a nice "realistic" balance (ie in the real world people don't go on killing sprees all to often).

Succatash, I see your point. But, not all forms of entertainment are games (ie TV).

Quote:
Originally posted by SUCCATASH:
I'd say we are comparing oranges to tangerines.

And the tangerines I'm eating don't have seeds. I'm not sure what that means.

If you mean that the seeds are like the annoying thinks that players tend to do that the GM doesn't want them to do or the "wrong" direction they tend to go in, I will mostly agree. Interesting analogy

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If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:04 AM

WREN

Quote:
Really, though, it's hard to even talk about RPG without being more specific - are you talking about email or board based RPG? Are you talking about LJ or journal based RPG? Are you talking about a M*, where scenes happen slightly more real-time? The differences are worlds apart, really. Which sort of RPG you play is going to drastically affect how you see things - playing by email or board is an entirely different experience from playing on a M*.

I prefer TTW 'cos it's a bit like me - nice and simple.

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:04 AM

AERRIN

Heh, and see, I prefer RPG because it's rarely nice and simple - and it's rarely just like me.

My RPG experience, though, is on M*s (MOOs and MUCKs on my end, which means no stats and no one tends to die) - which is worlds apart from tabletop and I think from bulletin board (which I'm guessing from the sole fact that I can't for the life of me figure out how it works, because the 'rules of play' seem to be so different from what I know.)

What I love about RPG is that, instead of having a handle on many characters and a plot, you have an extremely good handle on /one/ character, and plot comes from that in an amazingly complex show of cooperation. If I know what makes my character tick, if I know her history, her temperment, her pet peeves, then I know how she will react in a certain situation, and how that might differ given the people with whom she interacts.

I've only ever partipicated in one TTW, and it was, granted, a quite silly exercise (think angsty Harelquin), but the difference that I noticed in writing that and in TTW stories that I've read is that there seems to be less of a sense of cooperation and more of a sense of oneupsmanship. Not in a /bad/ way, mind - just that there's some sense of pleasure in having your fellow writers encounter a shock, or forcing them to struggle to deal with a new twist. I also notice that they have a habit of turning silly or smutty rather quickly, although that may just be the ones I've seen.

In RPG, I find that folks tend to cooperate in that they talk about ways the story might go, major plot points that need to come into play, long arcs that might be fun to delve into. It's a bit more of a 'team sport.' I think you're surprised by the direction of play a heck of a lot in RPG as well, but it generally tends to be a mutual surprise, an unexpected reaction of one character that leads to another of another character, and they tumble like dominos, in interesting ways.

Wow, I'm rambly - I obviously like to delve into the whys and wherefores of my hobby, and it's not often that someone asks for it! ;)

Ultimately, though, I think that if you are involved in a 'storytelling' RPG rather than a 'gain points, hack and slash' RPG, RPG and TTW aren't /that/ different. The differences are there, certainly, but I don't think they're huge.

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:14 AM

SUCCATASH

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Succatash, I see your point. But, not all forms of entertainment are games (ie TV).

I did not say all forms of entertainment are games.

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:13 AM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Succatash, I see your point. But, not all forms of entertainment are games (ie TV).
I did not say all forms of entertainment are games.

Very well, poor wording on my part, I was speaking in the context of this thread and the subject of it *does* imply that TTW is a game.

----
If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:04 PM

SUCCATASH

How about we compare it to baseball? The players practice, and they play games. They also play practice games. I think "scrimmage" is the term used.

Merriam Webster's first definition of "GAME":
"Function: noun
1 a (1) : activity engaged in for diversion or amusement : PLAY"

Seems to me that when a group of people interact for the purpose of fun and create something within the parameters of established rules, then it's a game.

Are you talking about "game" in the traditional sense of having winners and losers? In that case, the Gunrunners RPG is actually an RPWE. (Role Playing Writing Excercise) because as far as I can tell, they don't have winners or losers either.

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:38 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Well, since I did mention that I was speaking in the traditional sense before, yes, I'm speaking of the traditional definition.

But, tag is a game and doesn't really have a winner or loser. It's just one continuous never ending game. I also don't think that RPG's such as D&D don't have winners or losers as you just keep going until you're bored or your character dies.

On a final note, the dictionary coming out is the official sign (to me at least) that this specific discussion within the thread has gone to a bad place and as such I will leave it.

----
If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:41 PM

SUCCATASH

Hey, I thought we were just talking. Are you mad? Why do you hate dictionaries? We were discussing the definition of a word. Seemed appropriate to consult a dictionary. Yes, I'm a nerd but that's not the point, I hope.

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:36 PM

SIGMANUNKI

No, I don't hate dictionaries. But, for me when someone pulls one out it crosses a line in the sand. Just me I guess. Sorry for the aggressive tone. No harm no foul.

----
If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:57 PM

SUCCATASH

I should warn you all, that we "Turn Takers" are on the verge of a revolution. We can allow no more discrimination against us! We demand our rights to be acknowledged as equals in the Gaming Community.

The "Turn Takers" are tired of waiting for our turn. We feel, it's OUR turn now.

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Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:42 PM

MANIACNUMBERONE

I like dictionaries. I play dictionary games.

I like games. Obviously.

I like tag. You can lose tag by the way, ever play freeze tag? lotsa fun.

I also like RP-ing and TTW. I just happen to like RP more though, because I like to have more control over my character.

I think it would be great fun to have a website devoted entirely to different sorts of TTW and RP games. I will call them games. I am currently playing Book in an RP on this site, and it sure feels like a game to me. A great game.

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Inara: Who's winning?
Simon: I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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