TALK STORY

is intelligence uncool?

POSTED BY: BORIS
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 02:44
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Wednesday, January 9, 2008 7:59 PM

BORIS


I'm thinking it must be. I mean there are so few people that seem open to admitting to possessing it without embarassment, or making some weak exscuse about it.. I am proudly intelligent. I don't wave it around like a " I'm so special hear me roar " flag, I just am intellectually inclined, so why should I dumb down just to fit in or make others more comfortable? ( something a well intentioned employer told me to do). My theory is that we all start off with the potential for greater intelligence, but that most of us sadly bow to social pressure, and lose it before adulthood. I have occassionally had parents of children I work with, ask me to use simpler language, so that their children aren't negatively influenced...regarding what exactly? expanding their minds? including a wider range of words in their vocabulary? what a tragedy that would be. I was also accused by a parent of being a fun nazi , because I only brought the playstation out once a month, and subjected the children to activities that shock! horror! made them try new things, and expand their skillbase. so what is so wrong about learning and mastering whatever skills you can, and then sharing them? I've vented I'm done, now I can get back to accepting that mediocraty is a comfort tool for most people.


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Wednesday, January 9, 2008 8:41 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Yes, it is uncool. However, sometimes you can find a haven where you run into others like you - such as this board, for the most part.

In America, 40% of all teenage suicides are committed by those with IQs in the top 4 percent of the population. This speaks a great deal about the uncoolness of intellect.
I have chosen (long ago, around 18 or 20 years of age) to dumb down my vocabulary, solely in order to communicate with the rest of the population. Plus, at the time the people who were in position to control others (essentially, academians) were notimpressive to me, where highly incompetent and dumb, and used language as a tool of snobbery and exclusion. I wasn't interested in the goals of those types of people.

Although I believe firmly in kids having fun, playstation is not an example of much beyond parental laziness.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2008 8:56 PM

REGINAROADIE


I don't think it's uncool, so much as underrated. Plus, I think there's a difference between intelligence, wisdom and common sense.

I think it depends on how you perceive other people and treat them. If you treat them like idiots and kids and pander to them, then they'll be idiots and kids and people that only respond to base impulses. But if you treat them intelligently and engage them like they're on the same page, then more likely than not they'll respond in kind.

I know it's easy to say "Everyone's an idiot.", but I think you'd be more than surprised just to see how smart some people are at times. Case in point. On Boxing Day, I go have some drinks with some people from my hometown that I haven't seen in ages. During that time, one guy explains to me the various types of rocks and minerals he's into (he's a geologist) and at one point in a group discussion someone references Johnathan Swift's "A Decent Proposal". The one where his suggests to the Irish to eat their babies to offset the potato famine. And these are guys from small town Saskatchewan. The least likely group of people you'd expect to hear this kind of stuff come from. I left that bar with a lot more respect than before.

So while intelligence may not appear to be a prized virtue in mainstream society, you'd be surprised to see just how smart people can be at times.

There's actually a really cool Canadian documentary that came out a few years ago called STUPIDITY, that actually examines this very concern. You should find it. Over the end credits, there's this song by The Arrogant Worms that's about how various points in history happened due to bad decisions. And the chorus goes "History is made my stupid people, clever people wouldn't even try, if you want your name in the histroy books, then do something dumb before you die."

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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Wednesday, January 9, 2008 9:19 PM

THATWEIRDGIRL


I think intelligence is cool. It's one of my most looked for traits in people. It's a little underrated in certain circles of society.

I agree that wisdom and common sense are just as important and underrated as intelligence. In fact, I'd argue that common sense is less likely to be found in highly intelligent people.

I'm stealing mwp's story...In a college speech course, students were asked to interview then introduce another student to the class. After all was said and done, only two students enjoyed reading and had a favorite book. Most of the students stated that they did not enjoy learning or reading. That's sad.

---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:32 AM

LEXAN


Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

In America, 40% of all teenage suicides are committed by those with IQs in the top 4 percent of the population. This speaks a great deal about the uncoolness of intellect.


Just because someone commits suicide and is also intelligent doesn't mean s/he did this because of it or its so called lack of cool.

Ultimately, I don't think it's uncool. I'm not sure if I would blatantly categorise it as 'cool', because it depends where you are and who you're talking to, I guess, but even that assumption can lead to surprises, as ReginaRoadie was communicating. It's a respectable and admirable trait, there's no reason why someone should think otherwise. However, in some situations it can be alienating and therefore thought of as lessening a person's 'social' coolness and ability to socialise with others.

Then again, at most of the schools I've gone to the people who have been respected and considered cool were definitely the most intelligent ones (or at least among them), whether they were cool for their intelligence or not.

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:59 AM

STRANGEBIRD


I get what you all are discussing. I went to school in the south and had a hard time of it. In my school if you pronounced a single word in the english language correctly they would pretty much beat the living $#!* out of you. I barely got out of elementary. I am not kidding. My parents got worried I wasn't being challenged enough around 7th grade and started homeschooling me. I finished in half the time it would have taken me if I had survived High School.

I mean seriously, reading and basic math should be taught in kindergarten. I distinctly remember thinking something along the lines of "WTF paper and glue?". Ok I didn't think WTF but if I had known that then I probably would have. When I entered preschool I was already reading, tying my own shoes, telling time(Not just on digital) and doing basic math. My older sister used to come home from school and teach me everything she learned that day. She thought I never got it and used to tell my parents I was stupid... haha.

People aren't stupid, our culture here in America and in many other countries, is. I mean freedom and independence are awesome and very important but education and creativity are sorely frowned upon by "The Man". I'll never "dumb down" to fit into any crowd. If I have to then I'm already one of the "stupid folk". IQ has nothing to do with wisdom or common sense. I even propose common sense doesn't really exist. I just say sense. Unfortunately these days it's not exactly common anymore. Wisdom on the other hand is ones ability to learn from mistakes and success alike, not just your own but from others as well. Wisdom comes with learning, not age. I've met enough juvenile, idiotic people 50+ to know the difference. It's not something you automatically get when you turn 40 like some people seem to think.

Not to fear though we are not alone. There is in fact intelligent life on this planet. You just have to look around. Just because that guy on the corner looks like a redneck doesn't mean he is one. Well he could be a smart redneck anyway. That punk by the drugstore trying to get booze off of college dudes might have an IQ of 186. The old receptionist at your local doctors office might be a Nobel Prize Laureate. Ok probably not but she maybe could have been. The trifecta of wisdom, intelligence and sense are a rare gift indeed.

My point is intelligence is not something one wears it's something one may possess. The key is being open and accepting of others different than yourself. If everyone tried to do that more often the world would be a much better place.

Now comes the part where you all beat me for being a girly gay brainiac or something.

<------<<< ~~~~~~~~~~(*)~~~~~~~~~~ >>>------>
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." Albert Einstein

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 5:00 AM

SIMONWHO


Intelligence hasn't been under such a sustained and vigorous attack since the dark ages. How else do you explain the rise of words like "truthiness" and the power grabs of religious organisations (disclaimer: you can be incredibly intelligent and religious (qv Einstein); however there are many churches now actively campaigning against not just evolution but other parts of science related to it because it is "biased", including teaching how viruses evolve, something we witness every year - unless of course you believe God changes the Flu virus each year to punish the week).

Here in the UK teachers are trying to introduce ideas such as abolishing "fails" and replacing them with "yet to pass". Those who display intelligence or knowledge get attacked as "boffins" or "ivory tower eggheads". The newspapers promote untested scientific theories, sometimes with fatal results - the take-up of MMR jabs has fallen dramatically due to the press pushing the work of one very discredited "scientist".

Sorry. Pet peeve topic this. I like the following distinction between knowledge and wisdom: it is knowledge to understand that a tomato is a fruit but it is wisdom not to put one in a fruit salad.

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:13 AM

AGENTROUKA


I think the whole issue is more complex than "Being smart is uncool" or "They are oppressing smart people" or whatever the popular response is.


Intelligence is in a great part genetic. That's why some four-year-olds will be wanting to read and write while others are still far away from such desires. Children are not all the same and the fact that they depend on outside support (teaching) to deal with their particular level means that the less individually they are cared for in that regard, the more likely trouble will ensue because some do not share the level of most others in their age group in either direction.

Feeling bored or overwhelmed both cause negative feelings. Those cause negative behaviors and attitude which is why highly intelligent kids often act out. I'm sure the same is true for those who cannot keep up. In turn, they cause negative feelings about themselves in others.

Both ends of the spectrum tend to be met with prejudice and meet the "average kids" with prejudice. It's all a completely normal social development. I'm sure it's existed since school classes were invented. That's something that should be looked at.


As for things like reading and academic inclinations - yes, they are to be encouraged. But you can be intelligent without reading and you can read without being highly intelligent. It's a tool to further knowledge and language but it's not the only one. People never bothering to read to their kids and teach them to appreciate that skill is bad, yes. But so is this over-emphasis of intelligence, as if all people truly are great philosophers at heart and should feel bad for letting their talent go to waste if they don't give a flying spacemonkey's backside for reading more than a book or two a year.

People have this fetish with intelligence and IQ. The book-smarter the better. That's just as bad as "nerds are uncool".

The people with the greatest social intelligence I have ever met were not those who holed up with a book, but those who did all those "average" things that unpopular people like to look down on.

The people with the most functional lives were the "average" crowd - not extremely intelligent, not extremely unintelligent.

The people creating the most fascinating art, travelling to cool places, making unusual choices, raising the happy kids...all "average".

Intelligence in the academic "read a book" sense is hardly everything.



What I'm trying to say is, that we should stop overfocusing on the inherent value of certain qualities and trying to push people in either direction. Sure, some basic spectrum of skills needs to exist, but social development is just as important as academic, physical self-awareness is just as important as philosophical self-awareness. We keep rating kids on lines from 1 to 10 instead of multi-dimensionally and then we complain when the general focus doesn't fall where we want it to. When not all kids will strive for that 10 because they are busier growing in other ways. Or when those near the ten feel that their top-status does not coincide with a top-happiness, success or social adjustment reward.

Geez.

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:33 AM

LYSANDER


Intelligence is only uncool when you are with people who do not understand its greatness. To dumb yourself down so that you fit in with a group of people is a travesty. You are taking away a big part of what makes you, you.
As a teacher, I would be offended if a parent told me to dumb down the way I speak. That is why we have so many things going wrong in our society today. Because we are allowing these kids to take the easy way out. Start them off early and give them a chance to explore how great intelligence can be.
Throwing out statistics about how many intelligent kids have committed suicide is a non factor. If 40% of them have done this, then that still leaves 60% of the suicides to unintelligent people. I guess we should not be intelligent because so many serial killers are too, right? I fit every single characteristic of a serial killer. The one I'm most proud of is my intelligence. And last time I looked, I hadn't killed anyone.
If the unintelligent people want to stay that way, let them. But there is no reason to not think that being intelligent is uncool.

Simon: What if he(Mal) tells you to kill me?
Zoe: (without hesitation) I kill you.

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:44 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:
Originally posted by lysander:
I fit every single characteristic of a serial killer. The one I'm most proud of is my intelligence. And last time I looked, I hadn't killed anyone.


You've tortured and killed animals for pleasure? ;)

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:51 AM

LYSANDER


Sorry, overlooked a few of the bad ones. The answer is no. Never have and never will.

Simon: What if he(Mal) tells you to kill me?
Zoe: (without hesitation) I kill you.

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:54 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:
Originally posted by lysander:
Sorry, overlooked a few of the bad ones. The answer is no. Never have and never will.

Simon: What if he(Mal) tells you to kill me?
Zoe: (without hesitation) I kill you.


Just kidding. ;)

Though now i'm curious. The generally neutral high intelligence aside, are there good serial killer characteristics? I only find betwetting, arson, sexual abuse, brain trauma, animal cruelty and such in childhood? Are they usually all well-spoken and good-looking? I don't remember. Weren't a few also socially awkward or at least entirely boring-seeming?

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:06 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Intelligence is a relative attribute. A person can be a brilliant scientist on one hand, and a blithering idiot about everything else. A blithering idiot might have more common sense and street smarts than a scientist. Personally, I like intelligent people, and I married one. She's like my Who Wants To Be A Mllionnaire "lifeline"...every time I need to know something I turn to her.




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Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:28 AM

LYSANDER


As far as good characteristics I don't know that any can be called good. I just don't think that all of them can be considered bad. My dad left when I was 1 and my mom took control. A few years later she remarried and he turned out to be an alcoholic. He also believed in hitting as a form of punishment. I like fire, but I am not an arsonist. I am intelligent and some would say good looking(not quite sure myself). Sometimes I'm awkward but it depends on the situation. It's some of the simple things like that that I relate to. I also am a very big fan of The Catcher in the Rye which is found in most serial killers houses.

Didn't mean to confuse by what I said earlier Agent.

Simon: What if he(Mal) tells you to kill me?
Zoe: (without hesitation) I kill you.

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:32 AM

MSB


Don't know if it's uncool, but if my students are any indication it's a dying trait... not intelligence per se, but the ability to think critically. All this emphasis on standardized testing and measurable progress discourages critical thinking skills and evaluation since those can't be tested in multiple choice

____________________________________________

Ain't Love GRAND!!!

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:45 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Those who display intelligence or knowledge get attacked as "boffins" or "ivory tower eggheads".
Shut up boffin.


More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:46 AM

STOWEAWAY


Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
We keep rating kids on lines from 1 to 10 instead of multi-dimensionally and then we complain when the general focus doesn't fall where we want it to.


Hear! Hear!

I'm raising two very intelligent and VERY different little boys. My youngest falls into the standard "accepted" measurement of intelligence. My oldest is a left-handed, right-brained dynamo who is struggling to walk the "line" you mention. I think there is a danger in making the category of Intelligent Folk too narrow. Too many great minds will be left by the wayside.

As to the question if intelligence is uncool....I say HELL NO! I think intelligence (not simply book-smarts) in an adult can actually be sexy.

-------------------------------------
Check out http://www.americasfunniesttshirts.com for hilarious shirts at a great price.

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:00 PM

STRANGEBIRD


Quote:
I also am a very big fan of The Catcher in the Rye which is found in most serial killers houses.


I always got a kick out of that one. I know maybe... a half-dozen people who have read that book and still have it on the shelf. It's a classic and I would imagine most book lovers own at least one copy. I also keep multiple copies of some of my favorites, one hardcover for display and a throw away paperback(or two) for casual reading. Not The Catcher in the Rye though. I've actually never read it. Considering it though.


Also in regards to the general discussion I feel that this has been going on since the dawn of humanity. Our focus on intelligence as the end all be all is just as dangerous as a focus on being "average" or "normal". So many labels these days. It's human nature yes, but we still need to be aware that people are more than just stereotypes. Which is the heart of this discussion. Like others have mentioned above a high IQ doesn't mean your a genius.

Jongstraw has a point when saying a brilliant scientist might also be an idiot. He may make an amazing discovery, such as curing cancer or diabetes, then go home and blow his head off because he thought the lava lamp would look pretty on his stove(yes I watch too much Mythbusters). Same with someone with an average or below average IQ. Intelligence is just as misunderstood by intellectuals as it is by the rest of humanity. IQ tests are also far from infallible and I've heard of folks taking the same test twice in two weeks and receiving wildly different results.

It all boils down to with how we deal with whats going on around us. I personally believe everyone is equally equipped, it's all a matter of finding what we are good at and doing it in a way that benefits everyone else.

I'm fairly smart I guess, I read quite often but not as much as others. I love to read and consider reading a fundamental part of who I am. When people tell me they don't like to read(I am sure if your still reading this you are probably not one of them) I really can't even imagine how they could feel that way. I discovered reading because my parents cared enough to introduce me to books at a very early age. I can't even recall learning to read, tell time or even when I learned about death, among other things. Those are things I've always remembered knowing. I'm pretty sure I just figured them out on my own at a very early age, just by listening and being exposed to them in one way or another.


Anyway this discussion is getting far to long and deep for my tastes right now. I got a house to show and dogs to take care of. Have fun and I hope you unlock the mysteries of life.



<------<<< ~~~~~~~~~~(*)~~~~~~~~~~ >>>------>
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." Albert Einstein

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:11 PM

FREDGIBLET


Quote:
Originally posted by Strangebird:
Quote:
I also am a very big fan of The Catcher in the Rye which is found in most serial killers houses.


I always got a kick out of that one. I know maybe... a half-dozen people who have read that book and still have it on the shelf. It's a classic and I would imagine most book lovers own at least one copy.


I love books, I buy them by the truckload (in fact I buy them faster then I read them), it's been around 50 or 60 purchases since I've last cleaned out my books and took a trip to Powell's to get rid of the crappy ones, Catcher In The Rye is one of the 4 on my "to get rid of" pile. I hate that piece of crap, I've got a picture somewhere that sums up my opinion of it, it a Photoshop of the cover with the title replaced by "224 pages of Livejournal".

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:13 PM

GORRAMGROUPIE


Unfortunatly, I bought into that whole mindset in jr high and high school, and dumbed myself down. Wanted to be popular more than intelligent. Been kicking myself ever since. In jr high, I could have gone on and entered a pre calc class, and done well, I really understood math and enjoyed it. Now, I'd rather have a millstone around my neck at the bottom of the ocean while a dentist does 3 simultaneous root canals without pain deadeners, while someone breaks my legs over and over again than do anything higher than multiplication. Grrrr. Man I'm stupid!

'Who are you and how did you get in here?' 'I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.'
Police Story

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:31 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Well, one thing so many folk undervalue is cunning/craftiness.

Not raw intelligence, mind - but confront an old shadetree mechanic within his expertise, and then see how WELL he applies the lessons learned there to other things... some of them hicktown backwater folks might not be particularly SMART, no, but many are wise and cunning, which is to them, within their environment, more useful - and that's the way they look at it.

I do believe there is a concerted effort by the powers that be, the media, and dept of education to obliterate critical thinking, it's damned obvious to anyone who looks for it, and I am in the middle of a nasty go-round because my nieces go to a school that tries to class critical thinking and asking questions as a goddamn mental illness, fer cryin out loud.
(and imma leave out the 5 PAGES worth of railing on off-lable, untested, unproven psycotropics en masse, this time, right ?)

Brains are great, but raw intelligence with no aptitude or skills to apply it with is a bit of a waste, and an intense frustration to a schoolkid who realizes they're in that strange position.
(Solution, she goes to vo-tech, or my boot goes up someones ass, problem solved.)

I think a huge part of it is that our school systems have gone from education... to indoctrination, and a little peeking into the history of public education will show that this was almost inevitable given their original design and intent.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:49 PM

SPACEHOPPER


I believe this has a lot to do evolution and instinct. When we were more primitive beings, a successful male would have to be able to provide for and defend his family (i.e. be strong and athletic) and a successful woman would have to be good at child-bearing (again physical perfection is sought). Intelligence didn’t really come into the equation because there was no great divide in knowledge amongst a tribe.

Nowadays, though, this has become entirely not the case. Men no longer have to physically defend their family and home (in general), they no longer have to be athletic to provide for their family either. Women do not have to give birth to many offspring in order to ensure the survival of their bloodline, and they are also equally able to provide for their family as men.

What has become much more important in ensuring success as a human, for both males and females, is intellect. The fact is that, in general, the more intelligent a person is, the better their job will be and so the better theirs and their children’s quality of life will be. That is what our brains tell us, but our instincts still tell us to find a physically perfect mate. That is why beautiful idiots still have a strong social position.

Why is intellect branded uncool? Because it has become the number one attribute when it comes to being a successful human being, and people with only the old, out of date attributes are jealous and afraid of it. Someone with the ‘old’ attributes is more intimidating than someone with just a big brain; that is why a scrawny, ugly, weak, intelligent person will get picked on the most; a person who possess both intellectual and physical superiority will get picked on less and a person who is strong or beautiful or both but less intelligent will be the one dishing out the abuse.

We are told from an early age that greater intellect is the way forward, and the people who are still of the old mould are scared of being left behind and ultimately phased out of the species, as is the nature of evolution.

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:17 PM

KAREL

Flying on duct tape and a damaged registry.


Let's use our cell phones and computers to chat with our friends about the uncoolness of intelligence! [edit: The network router went down while I was editing.] *snort*

I don't have much to add to the thoughtful dissertations here, but from experience, and squinting and looking around today, I'd say that intelligence is deemed uncool.

Though I hold intelligence in high regard, it is merely one of many traits that make up a person as a whole. This is becoming more evident to me all the time.

--karelisjusttoowhiteandnerdyisall.



"This is the twenty first century, can't you get it through your head? This ain't the way it was meant to be, magic isn't dead." -- Marillion.

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:56 PM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceHopper:

Why is intellect branded uncool? Because it has become the number one attribute when it comes to being a successful human being, and people with only the old, out of date attributes are jealous and afraid of it. Someone with the ‘old’ attributes is more intimidating than someone with just a big brain; that is why a scrawny, ugly, weak, intelligent person will get picked on the most; a person who possess both intellectual and physical superiority will get picked on less and a person who is strong or beautiful or both but less intelligent will be the one dishing out the abuse.


I'll disagree. That's a simplistic view and doesn't take into account the other attributes at play.

For example, what about the ugly, scrawny stupid kid? Just as likely to be bullied and picked on.

The beautiful, intelligent, physically strong person? Just as likely to do the picking.

A star athlete will not be bullied even if he makes straight A's and wins science prizes.

Fact is, at that age, most kids are afraid. They are growing up, they are facing choices that will affect the entire rest of their lives. The fear of failing to live up to their potential success, of missing out, of being stuck in an unhappy life mess with them. And that's not even speaking of their present life when they want to be accepted, wanted and experience all those things we associate with being young. Sex, love, friendship, careless fun. Kids are under tons of pressure. They are attracted to those who seem successful and strongly reject those who seem unsuccessful. The lash out to vent all that pressure and they lash out against those who seem weak and prone to lack of success, to prove to themselves that they cannot possible be identifying with someone like that.

And anyone who stands out in an unsuccessful way (being alone, being ugly, being male and very physically weak, being poor, having noticable disorders...) is going to be demonstrably rejected, by mocking, harrassing or violence. Or just plain ignored. Intelligence is a minor factor there, I think.

I think it has less to do with dumb vs. smart and more with human beings doing what they are programmed to do: try and belong to the herd.

The more pressure and fear kids are saddled with, the more this will occur, but it has always occured, even when intelligence was not over-focused on.


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Friday, January 11, 2008 6:09 AM

MAL4PREZ


I'll just note that Wayne Gretzky regularly got booed at hockey games when he was a kid - a 6 year playing with 10 year olds and such - because he kicked ass and folks were jealous. In high school, he played semi-pro a town over from his home, and didn't tell anyone because he'd have gotten flayed for it.

Ain't just brains, folks. People are petty about everything.

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Friday, January 11, 2008 8:29 AM

KAREL

Flying on duct tape and a damaged registry.


Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Ain't just brains, folks. People are petty about everything.

Good point. People can be petty about anything.


"This is the twenty first century, can't you get it through your head? This ain't the way it was meant to be, magic isn't dead." -- Marillion.

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Friday, January 11, 2008 9:06 AM

KIRKULES


Intelligence is overrated in my opinion. The difference in potential between the most intelligent and those of average intelligence is minimal. A person of average intelligence with a good education is just as likely to cure cancer as some egg head.

In my experience, many of my friends that I consider super intelligent have emotional problems that prevent them from achieving their true potential.

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Friday, January 11, 2008 11:03 AM

KAREL

Flying on duct tape and a damaged registry.


Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
The difference in potential between the most intelligent and those of average intelligence is minimal.
Generally true statement, IMHO. The word that draws my attention here is "potential". I have as of yet to meet anybody with all traits going in the same direction... kinda levels the playing field a bit.
*looks in mirror*

Nope. Not quite right.



"This is the twenty first century, can't you get it through your head? This ain't the way it was meant to be, magic isn't dead." -- Marillion.

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Sunday, January 13, 2008 5:30 PM

BORIS


I feel I need to clarify, by intelligence I'm not just referring to academic prowess, but to openmindedness/wisdom generally. my parents, and alot of their friends had very little formal education, and yet are highly intelligent people.My brother and I are subsequently open minded, free thinking, pragmatic people.
( We were "forced" into tertiary education, but that is not where we gleaned our intelligence factor). I am an avid learning addict. Everytime I come across someone with knowledge new to me, I like to shut up and absorb what they can teach me.
Interestingly, I find that the people most threatened by another's intelligence, are the "average" types (why are there so many of them?). It's always the least likely people you meet who display real smarts. The most intelligent people I know are either homeless, uneducated, or under 12 years of age. I don't believe in the value our society places on IQ ratings. I have an IQ of 174, and have never found a practical use for it. ironically I also have profound learning problems. I apparently talk like a scholar, and as much as this can be offputting for some people, I'm not doing it to patronise anyone, it's just how I speak. I come across as never being wrong about anything, because I don't pretend to be right about things I don't understand. I did the dumb down thing for a while in my youth, but it made me extremely uncomfortable.

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Monday, January 14, 2008 9:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by boris:
I feel I need to clarify, by intelligence I'm not just referring to academic prowess, but to openmindedness/wisdom generally. my parents, and alot of their friends had very little formal education, and yet are highly intelligent people.My brother and I are subsequently open minded, free thinking, pragmatic people.
( We were "forced" into tertiary education, but that is not where we gleaned our intelligence factor). I am an avid learning addict. Everytime I come across someone with knowledge new to me, I like to shut up and absorb what they can teach me.
Interestingly, I find that the people most threatened by another's intelligence, are the "average" types (why are there so many of them?). It's always the least likely people you meet who display real smarts. The most intelligent people I know are either homeless, uneducated, or under 12 years of age. I don't believe in the value our society places on IQ ratings. I have an IQ of 174, and have never found a practical use for it. ironically I also have profound learning problems. I apparently talk like a scholar, and as much as this can be offputting for some people, I'm not doing it to patronise anyone, it's just how I speak. I come across as never being wrong about anything, because I don't pretend to be right about things I don't understand. I did the dumb down thing for a while in my youth, but it made me extremely uncomfortable.


I had assumed most of this to be the case. Academic prowess and IQ are the opposing and conflicting measures that most attempt. It's not supposed to be practical - making things for the "average" is practical. Psychometry is more useful as a diagnostic tool than anything. But it is nice to hang out with a group of high-IQ people, the conversation and happenings are so much more relaxed, easy, and flow so much better.

The original high-IQ society was formed to help out political leaders, solve societal problems and such, but polititians have no interest in actually solving problems or discussing them.

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Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:28 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:
Originally posted by boris:
I feel I need to clarify, by intelligence I'm not just referring to academic prowess, but to openmindedness/wisdom generally.


You realize, though, that these are things that can and are also displayed by people who do not test highly in terms of IQ? Is IQ-type intelligence even something we need to consider when we discuss what you refer to as intelligence or can those qualities simply be called what they are: an open mind and wisdom?

I'd like to make a distinction between what is a largely biologically determined and quanitfiable potential for grasping concepts (seeing patterns, etc.) and what is basically a mental attitude toward learning and the world as a whole, because I do not think those two are related at all.



Quote:

Interestingly, I find that the people most threatened by another's intelligence, are the "average" types (why are there so many of them?). It's always the least likely people you meet who display real smarts.


Really? I'm surprised by this. Who do you define as average? Are you referring to average intelligence quotient (I did when I was talking about "average".) or a simply majority in terms of lifestyle or... what average?

Because the people I know who are of average IQ do not, in general, display closed-mindedness and discomfort with other people's knowledge, learning or IQ.

I've found that closed-mindedness has little to do with IQ, or your classic genetic aptitude.

Even extreme intelligence can be just as judgmental in its way. And even those whose brains go to white noise when you talk about math/physics/music theory/philosophy/history/IQ test patterns often listen with interest when you explain something in terms and concepts they can understand.


So, I think it's problematic to use the word "intelligence", since it carries several meanings that are often misguidedly linked. It could be we are all agreeing about the same thing and don't know it because we mean different things when we say "intelligence".

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Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:45 AM

VERTIGO


I dont think intelligence is uncool. In fact, i feel obliged to be intelligent to fit in in college.
I'm surrounded by all intellectual types, there are still cliques and that, but the friendship groups revolve more around music experts and law and psychology.
Its cool to be intelligent.


Shiny.

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Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:46 AM

MAL4PREZ


It seems to me that "intelligence" as it's being referred to in this thread is a certain kind of smarts: the logical smart, the high IQ, the science-y thing or the fancy vocabulary. High grades. Book learning. Now, I've got that kind of smart, and I've certainly felt ostracized over it at times. I've met plenty of "average" folks who were threatened by my braininess. Some of that was unavoidable, for sure, because people easily feel threatened. But here's what I've learned as I've gotten older:

When some "average" schmoe finds out I've got a big damned degree from a big damned college and gives me that frightened, almost hostile look (usually there's a few steps taken back as well. I'm sooo not kidding!) I can 1) bask in my superiority 2) be all offended and write this person off as an ass 3)smile and say something like: "Yeah, you may be shocked, but folks with the [big damned degree] from the [big damned college] are just as clueless as anyone else in the world."

I've found that when I'm good-humored like that, the "average" schmoe generally relaxes and we get along. They know I'm not judging them and won't expect them to sit through a rehash of my - I must admit - boring dissertion. And despite what it may sound like, this isn't playing dumb. I'm not claiming that I don't diserve my degree. But it is what it is, and nothing more.

I mean, what if we were each given a number to rate our ability to stand in front a crowded room and tell a joke? That seems highly relevent to "coolness" and social skill. Kind of a social IQ. I would completely fail at that! So yes, I may be book smart, but I'm completely lacking in other areas.

My point being: I think us "smart" people can create our own uncoolness by taking ourselves way way waaaaay too seriously, and making too much of our area of strength. And I'm not trying to judge folks on this thread - I'm judging my own younger self! I also don't mean to get down on smart people. I think it's the same with anyone who pairs their talent with their insecurity to come up with this I'm better than you because I'm better at X attitude. Yeah, who's gonna be at ease with that? It's like a playboy bunny saying I'm better than you cause I got naked pictures in a magazine. Or a yoga master: I'm better than you cause I bend like a pretzel. Or an actor: I'm better than you because I do Shakespeare. All of these people may be good at stuff, but they're all annoying!

Yeah, so I'm with Vertigo, I think intelligence can be way cool - if there's a sense of humor and some humility along with it. It's taken me a lot of years to figure that out! (And I'm supposed to be smart? )

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Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:19 AM

CITIZEN


Give it a rest brainiak.
Quote:
I'm not claiming that I don't diserve my degree.
:p


More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:38 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Give it a rest brainiak.
Quote:
I'm not claiming that I don't diserve my degree.
:p
Which only goes to prove how right I am. My degree wasn't in spelling.

Is such a thing as a spelling IQ? I'm so not in that smarty club!


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Tuesday, January 15, 2008 11:47 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Which only goes to prove how right I am. My degree wasn't in spelling.
ɯy spelliug are ɘxemplɒry.
Quote:
Is such a thing as a spelling IQ? I'm so not in that smarty club!
There's a spelling Haiku:
Spelling is very hard
Lucky for mal there is hope,
Computer Spellchecker


More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:54 PM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

My point being: I think us "smart" people can create our own uncoolness by taking ourselves way way waaaaay too seriously, and making too much of our area of strength.

**(snip)**

All of these people may be good at stuff, but they're all annoying!



So beautifully said and so very right. *G*




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Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:57 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
ɯy spelliug are ɘxemplɒry.
Whoa. You created characters. Now that's a skill!

AR: I just love being right. :p

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Wednesday, January 16, 2008 10:20 AM

CITIZEN


Don't start in with that there psychology boff-meister. I'm an emu. I mean emune.


More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:51 PM

GORAMMAN


I've read about 25% of the replys here but I'll throw my two cents in anyways.

I took your use of the term "cool" to mean appealing to others. If you want your intelligence to be appealing to others use it with confidence.

Confidence + X = Cool, given X is within your abilities.

That is the formula. People, even intelligent ones, are easily influenced. If you can project confidence they will believe you and believe in you. This is not exclusive to mainstream interests.

If you lack confidence there is still hope... it can be faked as long as you can talk as if you had it. If you can't do that then yes...it will not be cool. Only the people who really appreciate X will think it's cool.

It will work in the class room, at work, in life, with your kids, and when you are posting a video of a freestyle rap in the McDonalds drive through on YouTube.

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Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:48 PM

BORIS


Hey I agree totally. confidence is the key if you can maintain it. But you can be a comfortably confident individual(i.e. me), and still subject yourself to a little insecurity when regularly pummeled with the insecurity of others. Admittedly at the time I started this thread, I was feeling hyper sensitive about a teeny number of people, who are threatened by my perceived intelligence because of their a) lack of confidence, b) their fear of breaking free of the mold etc etc. I'm over it now (or deluded about being over it). But have been very interested to read the hugely intelligent responses. if anything they helped me remember that other people's negative opinions are just other people's negative opinions. How you react to them is up to you. also the kids at work think I'm cool for a dork, and they are chronically intelligent, so who am I to disagree?

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Wednesday, January 23, 2008 2:44 AM

VERTIGO


Thanks Mal4prez

haha

Also, i have a disagreement with all of these damn tests and exams. (pretty much because of just finishing mine.)

cant intelligence be measured through some other way???
its just dealing out the stress and frustration.

Shiny.

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