Earth that was by VivaChimera

FIREFLY UNIVERSE

Earth that was

POSTED BY: VIVACHIMERA
UPDATED: Monday, September 10, 2007 13:34
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Monday, January 15, 2007 1:24 PM

Can anyone still live there, does anyone?
was it completely destroyed, or was it abandoned because of overpopulation. these are my questions, it's been bugging me for a while, how a planet can be completely abandoned, also, has the 'verse had any contact with EtW?

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Monday, January 15, 2007 2:01 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

I would think that the overpopulation contributed to some sort of destruction of the planet as a good place to live. And, how long has it been since people left Earth-that-Was? 100 years? 200 years? More?

I would think, with the advent of terraforming and affordable space travel, that everyone would have cleared off of Earth whether there was still any means to salvage it or not.

But, I don't have any of the books to back me up, so these are just guesses.

Rules on voting here: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=22892

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Saturday, March 24, 2007 10:20 AM

ROJBLAKE

ETW probably still exists, it is probably just a long way off...or concievably to use another sci-fi reference there might be a jump gate ala Babulon 5 or Lost in Space.

Such a gate might have been destroyed (or might be a relic, a monument like the St. Louis "Gateway to the west" it might simply be non-functional)...also the "exodus" per se might have been those who gave up on the Earth...political, economic, ideological reasons

Not unlike the exodus west in our own history. Perhaps there was a mass migration to escape "Global Warming/Cooling"; perhaps a bio-plague...the Alliance has been around long enough to write (rewrite) alot of history.

Consider that there were probably at least 2 journies "west" because I don't see thousands/millions of people sitting is spaceships for "decades" while the first worlds were terraformed.

Perhaps the Alliance were colonies of Earth who broke away from earth in a rebellion & the Alliance officially rewrote the history to prevent its citizens wanting to return to ETW & causing dissention within the power structure.

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Saturday, March 24, 2007 11:47 AM

EMPIREX

Hmmm... I thought I read something about this... that Earth's resources had been used up. That an entire generation of travelers never saw the outside of a spaceship (I think those were Joss's words). For some reason, I imagine some people and their families getting sent decades ahead to prepare the way (terraforming and then building cities) and then everyone else followed. A massive undertaking at any rate. I always wondered though, surely they couldn't round everyone up. I bet there's still some people left on earth that was. And I'm no science expert, but the planet would heal itsself in time, wouldn't it?

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Saturday, March 24, 2007 12:03 PM

ROJBLAKE

The Earth is in essence a living organism, if the eco-system got so bad that it would no longer sustain human life it probably would heal itself (after killing us all off).

The dinosaurs were the dominant species at one time, we are the dominant species of our time...in the future who knows.

As long as any part of the eco-sytem is still present & as long as the "rock" itself does not break, the Earth will continue to survive.

The current eco-panics are about human-survival & politics...not the survival of the Earth.

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Saturday, March 24, 2007 1:37 PM

MANWITHPEZ

Important people don't do field work.

Quote:
That an entire generation of travelers never saw the outside of a spaceship (I think those were Joss's words).

Not for nothing, but if you read Zoe's bio from the Alliance that the Operative is reading in Serenity, you can plainly see that she was born "Vesselside"

I wonder if that means on a ship, or if there's a planet named that...cause that's a weird name for a planet!

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

http://manwithpez.livejournal.com

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Saturday, March 24, 2007 2:22 PM

ROJBLAKE

Vesselside probably does mean inside a ship, or possibly on a space station...but people are occasionally born in taxicabs too.

I wonder if the exodus from ETW might have used Cryosleep kind of like Planet of the Apes or Riddick.

Actually if they used cryosleep people may only have been awakened as needed, thus making the transition easier.

Although the record could have been messed with by the political/scientific leaders that would have awakened first.

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Saturday, March 24, 2007 3:56 PM

CITIZEN

There's an official line, it's that the trip was made on multigenerational, not sleeper, ships.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:50 AM

ROJBLAKE

There's always an official line...the official line is that Miranda was made uninhabitable by a terraforming event too remember.

Half of history is hiding the truth too.

As a GM one can always alter the "official" story to be what serves the story/plot best.

The "official" line is also to help explain why there are so few cultural seperations...and yet if Badger isn't cockney English what is he...or Niska I would say the Russian Mafia survived the trip & some 500 years pretty well.

Just food for thought.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:53 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by RojBlake:
There's always an official line...the official line is that Miranda was made uninhabitable by a terraforming event too remember.

By Official I mean:
What Joss said.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:16 AM

ROJBLAKE

Well let me say this, if Joss (Isn't that Luck in Chinese) felt it nessecary to change the back story he would/could...if it is a plot issue for a GM...do the same.

I've played several RPG's based on movies/Tv shows...trust me the official line changes...as soon as is convienient.

Also as I pointed out the generational ship story was to explain the "blurring of cultural lines"...& yet there are examples (I listed 2) within the canon itself that might seem to indicate differently.

I doubt that it matters to people in the 'verse on a day-to-day level anyway.

However for those who are doing crosovers, want to get involved in political upheavals etc. then the history might be important.

Consider that even if FTL doesn't exist the speed/technology of Spaceships would have been refined/improved over time...the Alliance is spread pretty thin. It would be in their interest to restrict excursions beyond the 'Verse therefore making ETW unattainable would be in their interest...especially if ETW still exists & is habitable, or worse if the exodus was caused by political/economic/cultual differences.

What if ETW perfected its terraforming technologies on our Moon, Mars, Saturn etc. Surly the people of Earth would have developed this technology as a certainty before heading off into the unknown?

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:27 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by RojBlake:
I've played several RPG's based on movies/Tv shows...trust me the official line changes...as soon as is convienient.

RPGs aren't ussually considered cannon.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:33 AM

ROJBLAKE

Whoa, hold it...I thought this was the forum for Role Playing in the Firefly/Serenity universe!

I think we're talking at cross-puposes here I've been talking about plot changes/alterations for the purposes of RPG's not changing the structure of the show or debating weather I agree with Mr. Whedon.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:37 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by RojBlake:
Whoa, hold it...I thought this was the forum for Role Playing in the Firefly/Serenity universe!

I think we're talking at cross-puposes here I've been talking about plot changes/alterations for the purposes of RPG's not changing the structure of the show or debating weather I agree with Mr. Whedon.

You're of course right, I'm just pointing out that there is an official history, and you can deviate from it if you so wish, but personally I think it's better to stick to the official backstory most of the time.

Further that an RPG story change is not a canon story change

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:50 AM

ROJBLAKE

Cool, I agree with that...but at the same time I am also pointing out that alterations to the official line in this particular instance are very easy to explain/justify.

Between the Alliance's proclivity for altering truth/reality, & the general apathy of the 'Verse's populace it isn't very hard.

Especialy with the upcoming release of Battlestar Galactica using the same rules I've talked to some who are working out "crossovers".

With the appearence of an Imperial Shuttle from Star Wars in the pilot episode (or so i'm told/haven't checked yet) it opens up even more cans of even bigger worms.

Also the lack of supplemental game information at this point folk are going to look for additional source information from other locations.

For example: What if the 'Verse were founded by xenophobic humans from the realm of Babylon 5...it would be 300 years in their future & the exodus could be voluntary to isolate themselves from the Aliens that helped to infect/destroy earth...if the mission in "Excalibur" failed.

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Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:17 AM

SHINYED

500 years into the future....the Earth is over-run and dominated by the Bailys....machine killers originally programmed by humans in the 20th century....now the resistance fights back against the machines : In the year 2525 three women keep hope alive....WHOOOPS!!!..wrong show...sorry!

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Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:57 AM

ROJBLAKE

I checked it out & yes there is an Imperial Shuttle in the pilot episode of Firefly.

So I can see Star Wars/Serenity crossover justifications already.

Also a Firefly is seen in the new Battlestar Galactica series.

I have no doubt that there are folk working out Farscape & Stargate plotlines as well.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 6:36 PM

OVERSTUFFED

An interesting series of stories that I've thought might be interesting as episodes has been along the lines of what would happen if a slower than light ship arrived after an 80 year trip from earth? A sideline story would be what if the ship were from another of earth's colonies in a nearby system?

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Monday, April 23, 2007 2:13 PM

REDRIVER

Quote:
Originally posted by RojBlake:
The Earth is in essence a living organism, if the eco-system got so bad that it would no longer sustain human life it probably would heal itself (after killing us all off).

The dinosaurs were the dominant species at one time, we are the dominant species of our time...in the future who knows.

As long as any part of the eco-sytem is still present & as long as the "rock" itself does not break, the Earth will continue to survive.

The current eco-panics are about human-survival & politics...not the survival of the Earth.

I wouldn't compare humans to dinosaurs.. if we don't put all our eggs in one busket and instead spread our "seed" to other worlds/planets then Earth "rebirth" won't kill us off like simple organisms populatin' it aka dinasaurs or other animals...

btw, humans went thru at least one "reboot" by mother Earth already and survived.. global deluge and the arc anybody?

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Monday, April 23, 2007 2:21 PM

NBZ

We do not need crossovers to justify the existence of "Earth that was".

The BDM says it could no longer support our numbers. Too many people.

If the number are reduced, it could support a reduced number.

Travel to new systems would not be cheap. It has been suggested it was a multi generational journey - something which I personally am sure not everyone could afford. Nor would all governments feel the need to evacuate.

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Monday, April 23, 2007 3:56 PM

CRUITHNE3753

Quote:
Originally posted by EmpireX:
I imagine some people and their families getting sent decades ahead to prepare the way (terraforming and then building cities)

...and clean the telephones...

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Thursday, May 24, 2007 2:59 PM

CAILIEG

I personally won't crossover the 'verse with other locales.

I like the different space "universes" for different reasons. If I want semi mystical space opera I pull out SWG D6, If I want Aliens versus humans I pull out some Bab5, and if I want some low tech, barely enough fuel to keep her afloat I play and love Serenity.

To each their own though.

On the topic of changing the history to justify things. Well. The history of Earth That Was is handed down by the Alliance and who knows how much of the truth remains. Maybe a large portion of the populace did leave for one reason or another. That is for each GM to decide for their campaign. In mine, no person in the verse has ever even asked about ETW.

Cpt. Caille Jensen
Firefly Class Transport Heracles
金剛力士

((Alexis Dority
Shiny
^_^))

Browncoat through and through, more oft than not I have found myself adrift in the black, wondering if I had enough in me to keep flying. My ship is in good repair now and the nostalgia brought about by Firefly will continue to touch me for the rest of my life.

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Monday, September 10, 2007 11:15 AM

EMMAZULE

Quote:
Originally posted by RojBlake:
I checked it out & yes there is an Imperial Shuttle in the pilot episode of Firefly.

So I can see Star Wars/Serenity crossover justifications already.

Also a Firefly is seen in the new Battlestar Galactica series.

I have no doubt that there are folk working out Farscape & Stargate plotlines as well.

I'm not a BSG fan, but I was under the impression that there are no aliens in BSG, and I've always been told that originally at least, the gimmick for the series was "What if life here came from out there?" (in other words, anything that happens in the story is part of our history so ancient we don't remember it and have lost much of the technology)... so that's slightly more justifiable as a crossover.

Sometimes I'm in the mood for 'verse-only ideas (I say ideas, because I never seem to get around to writing them, though I do sometimes read 'em), sometimes I'm in the mood for crazy crossovers.

Weirdly enough, some of the crossovers work better than others, and some of them go to such lengths to create the crossover, when a lot of the time I can see easier ways of doing it.

For one, Buffyverse is EASY. There are no aliens in the Buffyverse, save for demons that like to crawl into our dimension. But, a few things about the concept of Buffy/FF crossover jump out at me:

1.) They tend to do it on Earth (demons, I mean).

2.) the Fray comics, which are Buffyverse canon and the part of the canon set farthest into the future, still take place several centuries before the setting of Firefly. If only "an" entire generation grew up inside spaceships (which is what Joss claims), this works out perfectly fine - especially since Joss' patented "the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and occasionally there are flying cars" shtick is still true in Fray. More to the point, the Lassiter - the first laser pistol - was apparently an ETW artifact. Fray's world has laser pistols.

3.) Most of the monsters are gone by a couple of hundred years from now, not that most humans hadn't taught themselves very excellently how to ignore them by the 20th century anyway. They do return, but Melaka Fray's story's end is open-ended - with a certain villainous character ominously still alive and vowing to slug it out with Melaka further. For all we know, the way THAT twisted tale ends is with massive upheaval, where the monsters slowly make the planet somehow uninhabitable (Joss has been known to do a wide variety of things with his demons, there are certainly ones that produce say, noxious fumes or other toxic substances, or which feed on, I dunno, core resources?), and certain governments choose to just plain evacuate (the American gov't, for one, knows the things exist and works to both hide and control them. Remember what makes up about half the Alliance? Yeah...).

Keeping in mind that no Slayer was called in between the Season 7/8 arcs of Buffy and Melaka's time because the monsters all went away (well actually, vampires became "lurks", assumed to be either mutants - which are fairly common because of some weird event, I think something to do with radioactivity levels - or street punks so pumped up on steroids it messes with their heads)... if we abandon Earth, what's to say we even need a Slayer?

Until, of course, the de-humanized Reavers come onto the scene. Then of course, one girl in all the world(s), a chosen one, with the power to fight the Reavers, is born. She is... the Slayer.

Hell, maybe she's even River - Slayers ARE supposed to have good self-healing (she DID get a chunk of her amygdala cut out despite the fact that "the first one died on the table", and survive herself), and some amazing instincts when it comes to fighting. Oh, and then there's that "Slayer sense" Buffy was always going on about...

A little absurd? Of course. But workable? Most certainly, if one put in the effort (though I suppose River doesn't have to be the Slayer. That is, admittedly, taking it to a logical but over the top conclusion, still not unworkable, but a lot more difficult to pull off believably).

Farscape and Stargate aren't all that hard, either, though both subvert Joss' "no aliens, everybody does aliens!" rule. :P

Farscape - the other civilizations of the galaxy don't even know Earth exists (hence why Crichton had such trouble getting home), and presumably since it took only a "generation" for humans to reach the system the 'verse is set in, it's got to be close (astronomically speaking anyway) to Earth - which means it too could be in a relatively isolated, unexplored region. Hence, no aliens. Until of course the Peacekeepers find it... the...

...this just occurred to me.

The Peacekeepers. The Peacekeepers, who are, while not identical to the Alliance... and they LOOK like we do, being that Sebaceans(sp?) look like us and are apparently so genetically close as to be able to reproduce with an Earth human...

I have no idea what I just thought of, actually, except, it's like totally workable. I think. Maybe.

Anyway, as for Stargate - well DUH, the Stargate (if we only follow the SG-1 and thus far Atlantis continuities) program was a secret. Earth could have been totally humped by some Big Bad Aliens, without the population really realizing what was going on, and then it would need to be evacuated (by "newly" advanced ships)...

...and of course, they'd just find a nice, secluded system, and they'd terraform it. Only problem with this setup of course is that, the Stargateverse already has ships that can make the trip from the Milky Way to the (admittedly, apparently not really existant in real life) Pegasus Galaxy. In two weeks.

But I suppose if all your best techs, and the appropriate records of the tech, are somehow destroyed...

See, there are ways of doing this. There so totally are.

Just had to get me started on this kind of thing, didn't you? Now I'm going to be pondering these for HOURS...

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Monday, September 10, 2007 1:34 PM

REAVERMAN

I think that ETW was abandoned for political reasons by those who could afford to. I'm sure there were more than a couple billion poorer folks left behind to deal with the Earth's problems.

As for the issue of travel to and from ETW, I think they would have to have some sort of unconventional FTL travel. The reasons for this are:

1) It is physically impossible for there to be a single star system with that many rocky planets in the zone of habitability (the stretch of space not too far from the parent star, but not too close either), even if they use mirrors or orbiting lenses to amplify sunlight (such methods have serious limitations and would not be practical or cost effective to begin with), so there must be more than one system inhabited by humans.

2) The travel time involved (assuming it was 80-100 years), using STL drives would not be sufficient to travel any noticable distance (astronomically speaking). If they used Fusion drives, theoretically, their ships could achieve 5-10 percent the speed of light. That means that in 80-100 years, they would only travel 4-10 lightyears. Considering that Alpha Centauri, one of the closest stars to us is 4.5 lightyears away, they would have to be very close to the Earth, and if the inhabited systems were that close, we would have spotted at least the large planets already.

If they used the most powerful form of reactors currently known to man, Matter-Anti-Matter Annihilation reactors, the ships could still only reach 90 percent the speed of light, meaning that they would only travel 72-90 lightyears. When you consider the overall size of the galaxy (about 100,000 lightyears in diameter), that's almost nothing.

3) Because of the fact that there must be multiple systems, ships would need a form of FTL flight to move between the worlds in a matter of days as they seem to do, even if the systems were relatively close together.

Joss has said many times that he is not a science guy, which is proven by the ridiculous idea of having almost 100 planets and moons terraformed for human life (plus it's mentioned by the slaver captain in Shindig that terraforming is still going on; "Terraforming crews've got a prodigious death rate"; meaning that even more worlds are on the way to becoming new Earths, making the idea even more ludicrous) in one system. Even if you could cram that many bodies into the habitable zone, the conflicting gravity fields that densly packed would tear the planets apart. Personally, I like the theory ScrewtheAlliance used in his fanfics: Humans have learned to use the exotic properties of Dark Matter to bypass relativity and Einstein's Speed Limit (the speed of light), allowing ships to simply use conventional drives to accelerate up to, and past the speed of light. Little enough is known about Dark Matter to make this theory at least partially plausible for the time being.

If the exodus used FTL capable ships and lasted 80-100 years, they could be all the way across the galaxy, making contact with ETW virtually impossible.

Just my thoughts on it...

[img]

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"I refuse to submit,
To the god you say is kind.
I know what's right, and it is time,
It's time to fight, and free our minds!

Our spirits were forged in snow and ice,
To bend like steel forged over fire.
We were not made to bend like reed,
Or to turn the other cheek!"

- from the song "Thousand Years of Opression" by Amon Amarth

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