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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Do Supreme Court Justices have First Amendment rights?
Thursday, July 14, 2016 6:29 AM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Quote:Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s transparency has long been one of her most admirable traits. The U.S. Supreme Court is a particularly opaque institution, and Ginsburg has been a leader in trying to make the court less so. With her repeated public criticisms of presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump, however, she has gone too far. Ginsburg might have increased the chances of a constitutional crisis -- should we ever be in the unfortunate situation of another Bush v. Gore-style election contest wending its way to the Supreme Court. On top of this, it’s probably too late for her to do anything about it. Ginsburg’s commitment to transparency is well known. A few years ago, when I pointed out a small error in an opinion related to the legality of Texas’ voter identification law, Ginsburg not only corrected it but released a statement explaining she had done so. Up to that point, the court made changes to opinions without any public announcement. Which could lead to more than a few surprises. (After criticism, the court has officially changed its policy and now announces changes in its opinions after publication.) Ginsburg also has been more open than other justices when expressing her opinions about the court and its work. A few years ago, she told Adam Liptak of the New York Times that she viewed the conservative majority on the court as activist. When the court was later considering the constitutionality of bans on same-sex marriage, she predicted that if the justices decided to overturn the bans, the public would come to accept it. She has also repeatedly criticized court opinions from which she dissented. She just did this again with the 2010 Citizens United decision, which freed corporations, special interests and labor unions to contribute unlimited amounts to support individual candidates. But this time Ginsburg has done something that appears unprecedented: She has given at least three interviews (to the Associated Press, the New York Times and CNN) in which she criticized a presidential candidate in the midst of a presidential election. She has publicly said that Trump is bad for the country and essentially joked that she would move to New Zealand if he were elected. When given the chance by Joan Biskupic, editor in charge for legal affairs at Reuters and legal analyst for CNN, to back down from her comments, Ginsburg doubled down and called Trump a “faker.” This led Trump to tweet that the justice is a “disgrace” who should step down. He also spoke with the New York Times in his effort to rebuke her. Some observers, such as my dean, Erwin Chemerinsky, have defended Ginsburg’s right to speak her mind on political issues. Others have stated that Trump is a uniquely dangerous candidate for American democracy -- and desperate times call for desperate measures. The First Amendment argument misses the point. It is not about what Ginsburg might say, but what the consequences of her speech are for the Supreme Court and for American democracy. It is certainly possible that litigation involving the Trump campaign will make it to the Supreme Court on an emergency basis before the election. After all, the rates of election-related lawsuits have more than doubled in the period since the disputed 2000 election. Every election since has seen emergency litigation over election rules get to the court. Indeed, if we are extremely unlucky, we could be involved in a “Clinton v. Trump” post-election litigation, in which the court’s decision could help determine the outcome of the presidential race. It would be bad enough for the court to have to wade into another election dispute, this time (unlike during Bush v. Gore) when all the conservatives on the court have been appointed by Republican presidents and all the liberals on the court by Democratic presidents. It is even worse that the court is divided 4-4 along partisan and ideological lines. This looks likely to continue into the coming term, with the death of Justice Antonin Scalia and the Republican-controlled Senate refusing to consider Judge Merrick Garland to replace him. A 4-4 tie would leave a lower-court decision, whatever it might be, in place. In the event that such a case makes it to the Supreme Court, however, there would likely be loud calls from the right for Ginsburg to recuse herself from considering the case. The justices, unlike other judges, are not bound by any formal code of legal ethics, though if they were, making a statement about how an upcoming election should be resolved would be grounds for sanction. The question is: Given her statements, could Ginsburg’s impartiality reasonably be questioned? It is a question that Ginsburg would be called on to resolve herself. My bet is that she would not recuse herself in a case involving the Trump campaign, even in a Clinton v. Trump case. For her recusal would move the court from a 4-4 tie to a 4-3 margin for the conservatives. No doubt, in the heat of the election, people will likely impute partisan motives to the Supreme Court justices who intervene in election-related disputes. But Ginsburg has made things far worse. Those on the left who are tempted to give Ginsburg a pass on her comments should ask themselves if they would want Justice Samuel Alito to recuse in a Clinton v. Trump case if he went on Fox News and said he would move to Britain if Hillary Clinton were elected, or if he called her “Crooked Hillary.” Ironically, Ginsburg has taken a strong position that states can impose codes of conduct on judicial candidates to stop them from making statements that might raise questions about their impartiality. She has also found due process violations when judges serve on cases in which they have an apparent conflict of interest. What about due process rights here? The worst part is that this self-inflicted wound was completely avoidable. Even if Ginsburg believes that Trump is a uniquely dangerous candidate for American democracy, plenty of people are making that point. Ginsburg had no need to pile on.
Thursday, July 14, 2016 7:52 AM
SECOND
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
Thursday, July 14, 2016 7:32 PM
JEWELSTAITEFAN
Friday, July 15, 2016 4:13 AM
SHINYGOODGUY
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Commentary: Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s slam of Trump does the nation no favors Quote:Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s transparency has long been one of her most admirable traits. The U.S. Supreme Court is a particularly opaque institution, and Ginsburg has been a leader in trying to make the court less so. With her repeated public criticisms of presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump, however, she has gone too far. Ginsburg might have increased the chances of a constitutional crisis -- should we ever be in the unfortunate situation of another Bush v. Gore-style election contest wending its way to the Supreme Court. On top of this, it’s probably too late for her to do anything about it. Ginsburg’s commitment to transparency is well known. A few years ago, when I pointed out a small error in an opinion related to the legality of Texas’ voter identification law, Ginsburg not only corrected it but released a statement explaining she had done so. Up to that point, the court made changes to opinions without any public announcement. Which could lead to more than a few surprises. (After criticism, the court has officially changed its policy and now announces changes in its opinions after publication.) Ginsburg also has been more open than other justices when expressing her opinions about the court and its work. A few years ago, she told Adam Liptak of the New York Times that she viewed the conservative majority on the court as activist. When the court was later considering the constitutionality of bans on same-sex marriage, she predicted that if the justices decided to overturn the bans, the public would come to accept it. She has also repeatedly criticized court opinions from which she dissented. She just did this again with the 2010 Citizens United decision, which freed corporations, special interests and labor unions to contribute unlimited amounts to support individual candidates. But this time Ginsburg has done something that appears unprecedented: She has given at least three interviews (to the Associated Press, the New York Times and CNN) in which she criticized a presidential candidate in the midst of a presidential election. She has publicly said that Trump is bad for the country and essentially joked that she would move to New Zealand if he were elected. When given the chance by Joan Biskupic, editor in charge for legal affairs at Reuters and legal analyst for CNN, to back down from her comments, Ginsburg doubled down and called Trump a “faker.” This led Trump to tweet that the justice is a “disgrace” who should step down. He also spoke with the New York Times in his effort to rebuke her. Some observers, such as my dean, Erwin Chemerinsky, have defended Ginsburg’s right to speak her mind on political issues. Others have stated that Trump is a uniquely dangerous candidate for American democracy -- and desperate times call for desperate measures. The First Amendment argument misses the point. It is not about what Ginsburg might say, but what the consequences of her speech are for the Supreme Court and for American democracy. It is certainly possible that litigation involving the Trump campaign will make it to the Supreme Court on an emergency basis before the election. After all, the rates of election-related lawsuits have more than doubled in the period since the disputed 2000 election. Every election since has seen emergency litigation over election rules get to the court. Indeed, if we are extremely unlucky, we could be involved in a “Clinton v. Trump” post-election litigation, in which the court’s decision could help determine the outcome of the presidential race. It would be bad enough for the court to have to wade into another election dispute, this time (unlike during Bush v. Gore) when all the conservatives on the court have been appointed by Republican presidents and all the liberals on the court by Democratic presidents. It is even worse that the court is divided 4-4 along partisan and ideological lines. This looks likely to continue into the coming term, with the death of Justice Antonin Scalia and the Republican-controlled Senate refusing to consider Judge Merrick Garland to replace him. A 4-4 tie would leave a lower-court decision, whatever it might be, in place. In the event that such a case makes it to the Supreme Court, however, there would likely be loud calls from the right for Ginsburg to recuse herself from considering the case. The justices, unlike other judges, are not bound by any formal code of legal ethics, though if they were, making a statement about how an upcoming election should be resolved would be grounds for sanction. The question is: Given her statements, could Ginsburg’s impartiality reasonably be questioned? It is a question that Ginsburg would be called on to resolve herself. My bet is that she would not recuse herself in a case involving the Trump campaign, even in a Clinton v. Trump case. For her recusal would move the court from a 4-4 tie to a 4-3 margin for the conservatives. No doubt, in the heat of the election, people will likely impute partisan motives to the Supreme Court justices who intervene in election-related disputes. But Ginsburg has made things far worse. Those on the left who are tempted to give Ginsburg a pass on her comments should ask themselves if they would want Justice Samuel Alito to recuse in a Clinton v. Trump case if he went on Fox News and said he would move to Britain if Hillary Clinton were elected, or if he called her “Crooked Hillary.” Ironically, Ginsburg has taken a strong position that states can impose codes of conduct on judicial candidates to stop them from making statements that might raise questions about their impartiality. She has also found due process violations when judges serve on cases in which they have an apparent conflict of interest. What about due process rights here? The worst part is that this self-inflicted wound was completely avoidable. Even if Ginsburg believes that Trump is a uniquely dangerous candidate for American democracy, plenty of people are making that point. Ginsburg had no need to pile on. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-election-trump-ginsburg-commentary-idUSKCN0ZT2IM
Friday, July 15, 2016 4:22 AM
Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Is an unbiased, fair and impartial Supreme Court Justice expected to expose their incorrigible bias, unswerving political partiality and inherent unfairness to all? No. But as long as she is willing to recuse herself from cases which she clearly cannot be unbiased and has insurmountable conflict of interest, her First Amendment Rights should not be infringed upon.
Friday, July 15, 2016 5:55 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY: Did Justice Scalia ever recuse himself when it came to Roe v. Wade? Should he have regarding the so-called Religious Freedom case? Hmmmmmmmm. That sound you hear is the other shoe dropping. SGG Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Is an unbiased, fair and impartial Supreme Court Justice expected to expose their incorrigible bias, unswerving political partiality and inherent unfairness to all? No. But as long as she is willing to recuse herself from cases which she clearly cannot be unbiased and has insurmountable conflict of interest, her First Amendment Rights should not be infringed upon.
Friday, July 15, 2016 11:08 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Saturday, July 16, 2016 4:59 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: In various official capacities we were enjoined to clearly distinguish between personal opinion, and misleading others into thinking we were speaking officially. Also, yeah, recusal. If you had previously expressed a personal opinion such that you could no longer maintain the appearance of impartiality (the reality being far more difficult to determine) you were expected to recuse yourself.
Saturday, July 16, 2016 6:03 PM
ELVISCHRIST
Saturday, July 16, 2016 9:31 PM
Sunday, July 17, 2016 10:09 PM
Monday, July 18, 2016 4:01 AM
Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Quote:Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY: Did Justice Scalia ever recuse himself when it came to Roe v. Wade? Should he have regarding the so-called Religious Freedom case? Hmmmmmmmm. That sound you hear is the other shoe dropping. SGG Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Is an unbiased, fair and impartial Supreme Court Justice expected to expose their incorrigible bias, unswerving political partiality and inherent unfairness to all? No. But as long as she is willing to recuse herself from cases which she clearly cannot be unbiased and has insurmountable conflict of interest, her First Amendment Rights should not be infringed upon. Scalia joined SCOTUS in 1986, long after Roe V. Wade.
Monday, July 18, 2016 4:04 AM
Quote:Originally posted by ElvisChrist: Hmmm... we have Clarence Thomas, former lawyer for Monsanto, refusing to recuse himself from cases directly impacting his former employer. Scalia takes "gifts" from people who have business before his court. Alito refers to Obama's reelection as "darkest night, most extreme peril..." But Ginsberg's the one in the wrong here because... what? She's a woman? A liberal?
Monday, July 18, 2016 4:06 AM
Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: In various official capacities we were enjoined to clearly distinguish between personal opinion, and misleading others into thinking we were speaking officially. Also, yeah, recusal. If you had previously expressed a personal opinion such that you could no longer maintain the appearance of impartiality (the reality being far more difficult to determine) you were expected to recuse yourself. Are you certain that such rules of decorum, civilization, fairness, and justice don't only apply to conservatives? Don't liberals shun such sensible practices, knowing they cannot be unbiased or impartial?
Monday, July 18, 2016 4:23 AM
Monday, July 18, 2016 7:08 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY: Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Quote:Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY: Did Justice Scalia ever recuse himself when it came to Roe v. Wade? Should he have regarding the so-called Religious Freedom case? Hmmmmmmmm. That sound you hear is the other shoe dropping. SGG Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Is an unbiased, fair and impartial Supreme Court Justice expected to expose their incorrigible bias, unswerving political partiality and inherent unfairness to all? No. But as long as she is willing to recuse herself from cases which she clearly cannot be unbiased and has insurmountable conflict of interest, her First Amendment Rights should not be infringed upon. Scalia joined SCOTUS in 1986, long after Roe V. Wade. Here's me, with egg on my face. I stand corrected. SGG
Quote:Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY: Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: In various official capacities we were enjoined to clearly distinguish between personal opinion, and misleading others into thinking we were speaking officially. Also, yeah, recusal. If you had previously expressed a personal opinion such that you could no longer maintain the appearance of impartiality (the reality being far more difficult to determine) you were expected to recuse yourself. Are you certain that such rules of decorum, civilization, fairness, and justice don't only apply to conservatives? Don't liberals shun such sensible practices, knowing they cannot be unbiased or impartial? Oh yes, of course, only liberals present biased opinions
Tuesday, July 19, 2016 4:29 AM
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