The best (short!) discussion of money, debt, fractional reserve banking, and you. Evar. by SIGNYM

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The best (short!) discussion of money, debt, fractional reserve banking, and you. Evar.

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, August 1, 2016 16:38
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2600
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Sunday, July 17, 2016 10:46 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I've tried to describe from time to time how money is created, by whom, and its role in driving world affairs and your lifestyle.

I stumbled across this the other day, and it explains far better than I have ever done, in a few words, the role of banks, money, and debt.

I hope you find it as insightful as I did.

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Monday, July 18, 2016 1:38 AM

WISHIMAY

I found it dull as I have heard it all before.

However, I will say, a lot of people work to stay in medicines that keep them functional (like my spouse and his ENTIRE extended family, and mine as well). It's not like anyone would make them or give them away for free, and I doubt you could barter for a cup of g-23 paxilon hydrocholate (for example) and I would hate to be dependent on a gov't say-so to get what I need...so until everyone is fixed for freebee.....MONEY.

I don't see that changing anytime in the next hundred years, so what's the point of discussing it??

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Monday, July 18, 2016 2:33 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I guess it all went by you. You missed the whole point.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Tuesday, July 19, 2016 7:06 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So since most of you have seen this at least once, I'm going to reiterate the point that WISHY missed, and that is ...

This is not a criticism about money. The REAL criticism is ... REDACTED... . If you didn't get that point, then re-watch the video.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Tuesday, July 19, 2016 8:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Sorry, only saw a minute. Laughable at best - thx. Like Wish said, old news. It's like when you find out your parents are real people.

I am always amused by the irony of angry people who are jealous of anyone with money and yet say it is the root of all evil.

Despite the fact that you only watched one minute, you're willing to tell me what it was all about?

How typical of you.

If you had watched the whole thing ... which clearly you didn't (and neither did WISH) .... you would have sussed out that this isn't a diatribe about "money" at all. Far from it.

In fact, if you had even read my post immediately before yours, you would have seen what the point of the video is. And just to make you watch the video, I removed my summary of it. So your criticism is entirely ignorant, and will remain so until you watch the video.

WHEN you have watched the whole thing, THEN you can talk about it with some sort of intelligence. Until then, anything you post about the topic is completely pointless.

But that pretty much describes you anyway: willfully ignorant, lacking critical need-to-know information, pointless, and mean-spirited. And especially the mean-spirited part.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Tuesday, July 19, 2016 2:21 PM

THGRRI

SIG is all doom and gloom. Always has been. If you caught the first day of Trumps convention you would see the attraction for SIG. Delegates being denied their right to a vote, meaning we witnessed a dictatorship working behind the scenes. Chaos, and of course what SIG loves most, a message of DOOM AND GLOOM

____________________________________________

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Tuesday, July 19, 2016 4:45 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Anonymous speaks too slowly for the impatient. There is a transcript of "Anonymous – Message to the Citizens of the World III" at:
http://anonofficial.com/anonymous-message-to-the-citizens-of-the-world
-iii/

Did I mention that Signym hates Hillary? You can also check into "Hillary Clinton: Root of all Corruption" or "Anonymous – Google manipulating Hillary Clinton search results" at Anonymous' website: http://anonofficial.com/

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Wednesday, July 20, 2016 5:27 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Watched it all - I should have listened to myself. It's sad that you can't recognize that so much of this is old

Ageist!
E = mc ^2 is "old". It's still tru, tho.

Quote:
and that many of us

Except you ...

Quote:
- not just you - have heard it all before. It's 90's coffee shop blathering (it's quite a bit older than that even).

Who the fuck cares if it's "old", except you? That is the stupidest excuse to reject an idea, evar.

Quote:
What describes you, is you actually buy into it. You buy the package and don't question the content. You don't even realize that you have been duped by the same kind of shiny marketing that is used to sell knobs and widgets to people who you look down upon.

Huh? Is there something inaccurate about what was said? If so- what, specifically? I'll bet you can't come up with a single point in the video that you can demonstrate is in error. Another pointless post of yours.

Quote:
So yeah, you understand how banks work

And now, so do you.

Quote:
Now what's you alternative?

One alternative is embedded directly in the video.

Quote:
I see you dodged that question, naturally.

I don't want to steal your thunder ... post it for yourself.

Quote:
You pay cash for your house or get a loan? Either way, according to your video, you are using fancy air puff BANK money. OMG, we're all doomed! That's the world, honey.

And you'll be the first to start crying when it crashes again. "Oh woe is me!" you'll moan "Who could have foreseen this?"

Again, one answer isn't to get rid of "money" and if you just give it a little thought, you'll figure out what it is.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Wednesday, July 20, 2016 5:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
If you caught the first day of Trumps convention ...= THUGR

You watched it???? Don't you have a job to go to, or something?

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Wednesday, July 27, 2016 10:22 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

One obvious solution is to get rid of fractional reserve banking.

I just thought I'd let this marinade for a while and see if anyone noticed that it was right in the video itself.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Wednesday, July 27, 2016 11:23 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
One obvious solution is to get rid of fractional reserve banking.

I just thought I'd let this marinade for a while and see if anyone noticed that it was right in the video itself.

Fractional-reserve banking refers to a banking system where the bank holds a fraction of the demand deposits it receives, and loans out the rest. The very thought that a bank may do something other than sit in front of your money and watch it grow mold makes some people foam at the mouth. Many get very quiet if you ask where the interest on their liquid savings accounts would come from then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking

Something more substantial to think about than fraction reserve banking would be this article where you can ask yourself after reading: "What do rich people buy with money they can afford to lose?"

Did you "earn" that money?
http://evonomics.com/why-economist-ignore-much-of-rich-peoples-income/

In economics — actually right down to the core of national accounting methods — capital gains aren’t counted as income. And they don’t contribute to “saving.” Those gains are completely invisible to a huge bulk of the economics work (both empirical and theoretical) that is built on income and saving concepts and measures.

By rendering capital gains income largely invisible to accounting, these incomplete income and saving measures make those flows largely invisible to economists, and hence to politicians, and to the whole political conversation about equality and distribution.

It’s not hard to guess which group benefits from that incomplete discussion.

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Saturday, July 30, 2016 7:15 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Fractional-reserve banking refers to a banking system where the bank holds a fraction of the demand deposits it receives, and loans out the rest

Fractional reserve banking means that banks loan out MORE THAN NINE TIMES MORE than what they have on deposit.

Just in case you didn't get that the first time: MORE THAN NINE TIMES MORE THAN WHAT THEY HAVE ON DEPOSIT.

"How can they do that?!?" you ask? " How can they loan out money they DON'T HAVE??"

Very simple! They are allowed by law to loan out money they DON'T HAVE by simply adding as many numbers and zeros to your account that you are willing to sign on the dotted line that you will pay back, until they have loaned out somewhat more than NINE TIMES MORE the money they have on deposit. It's that simple! BANKS ARE ALLOWED TO CREATE MONEY.

Of course, they expect REAL MONEY in return.

So, if most of the money in circulation is made up by the banks, "Where do the debtors get the real money to pay back the banks?" you ask?

Good question!

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Saturday, July 30, 2016 7:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
One obvious solution is to get rid of fractional reserve banking.

We could also just make everything free. And no school. Ever. And have tacos and cake every Friday.

Well, we COULD start by limiting the amount of money lent out on a certain capital base, or conversely, as usually expressed: requiring greater capital (Tier One capital) reserves. Instead of allowing only a 10% Tier One capital, you could require (say) 25%.

This is something that discussed all the time as part of the European (Basel One, Basel Two, and... eventually... Basel Three) bank laws, or the FDIC capital reserve requirements in the USA.

In addition, in order to make banks more financially secure, they could re-institute Glass Steagal, something that is part of BOTH parties' platforms right now, which prevents your bank from lending to very speculative futures and derivatives gambling.

So it's not such a stretch as you might imagine.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Saturday, July 30, 2016 9:16 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Fractional reserve banking means that banks loan out MORE THAN NINE TIMES MORE THAN WHAT THEY HAVE ON DEPOSIT. . . .

Well, we COULD start by limiting the amount of money lent out on a certain capital base, or conversely, as usually expressed: requiring greater capital (Tier One capital) reserves. Instead of allowing only a 10% Tier One capital, you could require (say) 25%.

But with "(say) 25%" the banks loan out MORE THAN FOUR TIMES MORE THAN WHAT THEY HAVE ON DEPOSIT. Are you anxious at 4 as you were with 9? Why are you not feeling anxious at 4?

Would the number 2 make you not feel anxious? Why are you not feeling anxious at 2? 2 follows from 50% reserve requirement.

The wiki explains it all:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking#Money_creatio
n_process

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Saturday, July 30, 2016 9:28 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Fractional reserve banking means that banks loan out MORE THAN NINE TIMES MORE THAN WHAT THEY HAVE ON DEPOSIT. ... Well, we COULD start by limiting the amount of money lent out on a certain capital base, or conversely, as usually expressed: requiring greater capital (Tier One capital) reserves. Instead of allowing only a 10% Tier One capital, you could require (say) 25%. -SIGNY

But with "(say) 25%" the banks loan out MORE THAN FOUR TIMES MORE THAN WHAT THEY HAVE ON DEPOSIT. Are you anxious at 4 as you were with 9? Why are you not feeling anxious at 4?- SECOND

At least you finally got the concept of fractional reserve banking right.

You SHOULD take some time to think about the implications of banks being able to "create money" ... lots of it ... on the financial system; and on the banks' ability to demand "real money" back, and THAT effect on the economy. It might do you some good.

To answer your question, the goal, at least as far as I'm concerned, would be to eventually require 100% reserve. But any step in the direction of requiring a larger fraction of reserve reduces the problem of "created money's" impact on finances and improves bank stability.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Saturday, July 30, 2016 11:43 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

To answer your question, the goal, at least as far as I'm concerned, would be to eventually require 100% reserve.

There is about $1.2 trillion dollars of U.S. currency in circulation.
www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed01.html

I see that household debt outstanding was $14.3 trillion at the end of the first quarter of 2016. Nonfinancial business debt was $13.0 trillion. Non-financial debt is debt owed by any corporation that is NOT in the financial sector.
www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/z1.pdf

Did you notice that $1.2 trillion in currency is less than outstanding debts of $27.3 trillion? You cannot move the bank reserve from 10% to 100% without many old loans being paid back and very few new loans being made.

Obviously it will take a few years to get to 100%. Obviously, with fewer loans the economy will have to shrink, too. Since Federal Reserve says that the net worth of households and nonprofits was $88.1 trillion, I think you can figure out how much shrinkage there will be.

If you think the economy would not shrink because of your commitment to 100% bank reserves, you would not be correct.

I keep forgetting to give tangible examples for Signym. If banks make very few loans because they need 100% reserves, some people won't be getting car loans and mortgages and new furniture. Those sad people will have to save their incomes until they have 100% cash to buy. Homes and cars and furniture won't be built until the cash is paid. The economy will have to shrink.

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Saturday, July 30, 2016 12:33 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr

I woct the hole thing. Interesting stuf.

I'v alwayz known the system iz rigged, we are slavez to the dollar, banks hav an unfair advantaj over biznessez that create real products andor provide real servis, but this video filled in a few detailz uv how it works. Its even more rigged than I thot!

Money iz an invention. Like many inventionz, it got turned into a wepon.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Saturday, July 30, 2016 1:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

To answer your question, the goal, at least as far as I'm concerned, would be to eventually require 100% reserve.
There is about $1.2 trillion dollars of U.S. currency in circulation.
www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed01.html

I see that household debt outstanding was $14.3 trillion at the end of the first quarter of 2016. Nonfinancial business debt was $13.0 trillion. Non-financial debt is debt owed by any corporation that is NOT in the financial sector.
www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/z1.pdf

Did you notice that $1.2 trillion in currency is less than outstanding debts of $27.3 trillion? You cannot move the bank reserve from 10% to 100% without many old loans being paid back and very few new loans being made.

Obviously it will take a few years to get to 100%. Obviously, with fewer loans the economy will have to shrink, too. Since Federal Reserve says that the net worth of households and nonprofits was $88.1 trillion, I think you can figure out how much shrinkage there will be.

If you think the economy would not shrink because of your commitment to 100% bank reserves, you would not be correct.

I keep forgetting to give tangible examples for Signym. If banks make very few loans because they need 100% reserves, some people won't be getting car loans and mortgages and new furniture. Those sad people will have to save their incomes until they have 100% cash to buy. Homes and cars and furniture won't be built until the cash is paid. The economy will have to shrink.

If you think THAT'S bad, just consider that the derivatives market, always priced in USD, is somewhere in the realm of 6 to 10 X the WORLD GDP.

That's why people keep saying that our system is a house of cards. We should not be surprised when it experiences significant crashes from time to time, and catastrophic ones every now and again.

Do we really want to continue on this way? Or should we be thinking about ways to rein in not only the power of the banks but the instability that our financial system is based on?

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Saturday, July 30, 2016 1:13 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:

Money iz an invention. Like many inventionz, it got turned into a wepon.

Once you figure out how the weapon works, you can use it yourself and you can pick your targets for destruction. You don't have to be a victim of conman like Trump, or even Bernie, who tell you there is an almost cost-free way to create prosperity for you, just listen to their completely detail-less plans and vague generalities. But that means you need to apply more personal sweat and mental effort than voting once every four years and the rest of your time bowing down to your stupid-ass boss until you die.

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Saturday, July 30, 2016 1:25 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

If you think THAT'S bad, just consider that the derivatives market, always priced in USD, is somewhere in the realm of 6 to 10 X the WORLD GDP.

That's why people keep saying that our system is a house of cards. We should not be surprised when it experiences significant crashes from time to time, and catastrophic ones every now and again.

Do we really want to continue on this way? Or should we be thinking about ways to rein in not only the power of the banks but the instability that our financial system is based on?

It has already been figured out, but government just won't do it because they will have to hurt the rich. The rich start whining and the poor give in or decide to be passive, which is their usual response to everything in life. Let Trump handle the problem because he promised he would and you are weak and without energy.

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Saturday, July 30, 2016 6:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Originally posted by second:
Fractional-reserve banking refers to a banking system where the bank holds a fraction of the demand deposits it receives, and loans out the rest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking

Oddly enough second, that quote you IMPLY came from WIKI isn't found there. It's something you made up. And your fabricated 'fact' is also inaccurate. By hera, I hope you weren't basing your argument on something you made up that is untrue!

Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Saturday, July 30, 2016 6:42 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
It has already been figured out,

Until just now, by you

Quote:
but government just won't do it because they will have to hurt the rich. The rich start whining and the poor give in or ... people like SECOND and GSTRING... decide to be passive and defend the status quo.

Both you and GSTRING think that pointing out the problem is "laughable" .... "it's just jealousy" ... "it's old" ... "no big deal" ... "the fault of the poor themselves" ...

Suggesting a solution "can't be done" ... "unrealistic" ...

Typical liberals. You want change, but only if things really just stay the same.

I challenge you, SECOND, to come up with something other than your "completely detail-less plans and vague generalities" which in an undetailed and vague way calls out for "more personal sweat and mental effort than voting once every four years". What would YOU suggest? I have a few ideas, I only posted one. How about stepping up to the plate and showing us your mental acumen and desire for change?

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Sunday, July 31, 2016 2:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

SECOND, you've seen my tagline, right? I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

That's my approach to mass migrations ... which recently (past 50 years or so) been precipitated by the USA destabilizing and impoverishing nation after nation around the world. (A favorite pastime of Hillary, Obama, and Bush btw). Instead of sharing breadcrumbs and a blanket, how about First, do no harm?

Same with the banking and financial system. If you really want change, you have to first identify the problem. Then come up with ways to solve it. So now you know what the problem is (or at least one of the important problems) try to figure out ways to solve it.

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Monday, August 1, 2016 3:27 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Meanwhile I note that neither GSTRING nor SECOND have any solutions to offer. I guess they don't want change after all!

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Monday, August 1, 2016 10:42 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Another desperate attempt at ignoring a world-destroying problem.

You just can't stick to a topic, can you? You must be allergic to posting on-point, and revert to your trollishness at a moment's notice.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Monday, August 1, 2016 4:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Opinions are easy to ignore because, like assholes. everybody has one and most them stink.

EVIDENCE otoh is worth paying attention to. Too bad you never post any.

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