REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Vampires at the door

POSTED BY: REAVERFAN
UPDATED: Sunday, February 12, 2017 16:03
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VIEWED: 4164
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Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:05 AM

REAVERFAN




There are lots of different myths about vampires: They sleep in coffins, they can turn into bats or wolves; sunlight or a wooden stake kills them, they can't cross running water, etc. There are lots of rules for vampires.

One popular vampire myth says that a vampire can't enter a building unless they're invited in. They could go into a store or a church, since such places are “open to all,” but to enter someone's home, they have to be invited in.

To do this, the vampire has to deceive their victim somehow, of course. It has to be a trick, since no sane person would willingly let a vampire into their home. Vampires are ruthless killers, after all, and nothing good can come from them.

There is no doubt we're seeing a resurgence in, and spread of, neoNazi ideology, and its increasingly blatant attempts to become normalized and legitimized in public discourse. The fascists have always been there, but now they knock at the door, wanting in. Milo got his “violent protest,” and now he's on Fox. I have no doubt he'll be on there a lot, for now on. He's been invited right in through the front door.

The “alt-right” uses any number of labels to dissuade people from seeing them as Nazis or fascists. Decent people are afraid of those words, and most would simply avoid such people out of hand. That's why we see phrases like “alt right,” “white pride,” “neoreactionary,” “neotraditionalist,” and many more. They're not like Hitler! Heavens no! They're just challenging PC beliefs with “uncomfortable truths.” They're exercising their right to free speech and if you try to shut them up, you're the oppressor, you fascist!

Yeah, right. Mmkay.

First, I'm going to call all these people Nazis. They'll go into great detail about why they're not Nazis: They just have white pride, they don't really hate blacks, they just don't want to deal with them, Jews control the media, blah, blah, blah.

Bullshit. If you're a fascist, you're a nazi. No need to mince words (and mincing words is what neoreactionaries are all about).

So, what's a Nazi? I use it interchangeably with fascist, since there's not a cunt hair's difference between them. In short, anyone with a  http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Reactionary]reactionary] political philosophy: Nazis, fascists, men's rights activists, the KKK, monarchists, etc. They may not all want Hitler-style fascism, but they all share certain ideologies:

All humans are very different, and some people are inferior and others are superior.
Therefore, superior people are meant to rule, and inferior people are meant to serve them.
It is natural for superior people to gain power by force.
And everything works better when people know their "natural place" in the hierarchy.
And you'll see this after a passing glance with each of the ideologies listed. The KKK wants to reinstate slavery, MRAs want to make women subservient to men and legalize rape, monarchists want a king and aristocracy to rule over peasants, etc. Same shit, different label. To them, inequality is natural and even desired and the domination of the "low-borns" by the "high-borns" is ideal. Or to put it simply, might makes right.

So, Nazism tends to be a belief of the oppressor classes: White racists, men, warmongers, etc.: Those who wish to legitimize their domination of the other. It appeals to ruling-class people, but also to poorer people, for another reason:

“The fascist leader and the fascist follower are two completely different kinds of people. The follower is the kind of person who unerringly believes that power and authority serve justice by definition, that the world is dangerous, that outsiders are to be feared, that the world has gotten worse since some (imagined) golden age, and that there are certain traditions that are utterly sacred. The leader holds these people in contempt, sees their willingness to believe in him as weakness, sees his own willingness to pursue power as strength, and so thinks of his own followers as somewhat stupid. He may or may not believe a word of what he says, but he doesn’t care about truth anyway as long as the narrative serves him. The administration of the fascist is full of people who have the traits of both groups. (source)
Generally, the fascist follower is a fascist because they expect someone to be lower than them (women, people of color, etc.).”

They are, in other words, authoritarians who need to be led and told who to blame for their ills.

So, why should goodhearted, open-minded people like us try to shut them up? Why is it okay to say what we want, then deny Nazis the same right? Isn't that hypocritical?

Let me quote an anarchist who nailed it, IMO:

“Moving on - the reason why I opened with the breakdown of fascist ideology is because the emphasis on power and domination is vital. As I've said before, fascists do not care about truth, only power. If you look at fascist propaganda or try to debate fascists, you will realize this almost immediately (assuming they don't succed in manipulating you. Take this blog post for example. The post is an overview of how fascists can manipulate liberals into becoming fascists themselves. Here's a choice quote:

“Neoreaction is the first known memeplex that effectively attacks the very heart of Progressivism, bypassing its otherwise impenetrable adapted defenses, worming its way into the executive routines, and shredding it’s internal rules-based order. The Progressive may not turn to the dark side, but he will forever be damaged.” source.
Essentially, if you can't manipulate a liberal towards fascism, at least you can permanently break them into submission! And this is the key, the point of fascism is to reify social hierarchy. For people at the top, it is important that the people at the bottom submit to this hierarchy. And that necessarily involves deception and manipulation."

The thing is, for "free and open debate" to occur, your debate partner has to be arguing in good faith. Meaning, they have to be honest about their position and not trying to fuck with you. That's why that Sartre quote is so vital. Reactionaries aren't trying to make a solid argument. They're trying to intimidate. This is why MRAs harass and abuse feminists on Twitter, instead of engaging in reasoned debate. It's that way for all of them. They make a statement, and you counter with a logical argument. And if they can't find a way to play games with your words, they will just resort to abuse and slurs. Every. Fucking. Time.

As for liberals, what they care about isn't really relevant, because their willingness to allow fascists a platform for speech is why they have no defense against fascism in the first place.

For fascists, 'free speech' is not about expression, but about organization and claiming space. It's a show of force and an attempt at recruitment. To counter-act this, you need to spread anti-fascist propaganda and to bash them when they try to organize, since debate is impossible and ignoring them gives them power.

Liberals see this anti-fascist action as being just as bad as fascism itself. And this is why there's a divide between left-liberals and leftists. The divide isn't because leftists are wrong to fight fascism, it exists because liberals mistakenly believe that fascism is a legitimate ideology and one which can be countered by debate.

In summary Fascism is an ideology interested only in social hierarchy and dominance, as such it employs manipulation and coercion to further itself. It does this out of necessity and out of a lust for power and control, as well as the enjoyment of damaging people who are deemed "inferior". Because of this, it doesn't function like other ideologies and has no right to claim "free speech". As well, the only recourse is to shut it down and bash the fash.”  https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchy101/comments/5mba00/why_isnt_fascism_f
ree_speech/]source.[/url]

Modern Nazis are extremely media-savvy. They're not all tattooed skinheads (though those do form the largest army of useful idiots), and they don't have swastikas on their arms, so you don't know from looking at them what they're really about.

As we saw last night, a very nasty, overt sociopath was able to manipulate his way into the national spotlight by virtue of being a nasty, overt sociopath.

UC Berkeley shouldn't have allowed him to speak because it is a publicly-funded school. Both the school and its students depend on our taxes to function.

Reichwingers are always crying about having to pay for someone else's abortion (they don't, but that's beside the point). I don't think taxpayers should allow any speakers who promote anti-democratic ideologies to poison the minds of their kids.

They can do that on their own dime.

Publicly-funded universities in the US have an obligation to the public to promote a “marketplace of ideas.” They are not obligated to give any audience to people who want to destroy the democratic ideals that help to create opportunity for all, not just some, that our country aspires to.

“The American fascists are most easily recognized by their deliberate perversion of truth and fact. Their newspapers and propaganda carefully cultivate every fissure of disunity .…They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection.”
Vice President Henry A. Wallace, April 9, 1944

Sound familiar?

Don't invite the Nazi vampires into your living room. They're not there to engage in any dialogue. They want to kill everyone who isn't also a vampire, or turn them into one, and we don't need more vampires. Nazis are ruthless killers, after all, and nothing good can come from them.


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Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:48 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, February 4, 2017 11:16 AM

REAVERFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Says our resident Nazi...

Burned any crosses lately, racist boy?

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Saturday, February 4, 2017 11:17 AM

REAVERFAN



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Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"They're exercising their right to free speech ..."

And they are. The right to free speech matters most when people take unpopular stands.



“What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.”
Salman Rushdie

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Saturday, February 4, 2017 5:12 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"They're exercising their right to free speech ..."

And they are. The right to free speech matters most when people take unpopular stands.



“What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.”
Salman Rushdie

Fascism is unique in that it is a doctrine of pure violence and murder. You can't have a polite dialogue with a fascist, because they're not about free discussion of ideas. You can't ignore them, because they want to commit genocide on anyone who won't follow them.

You can only eliminate them by any means necessary. Nothing else has ever worked.


That guy in Quebec who murdered 6 Muslims gets a pass from the president. He was a fascist admirer of Trump: A right wing terrorist.

Right wing terrorism is the most common form of terrorism in the US today, far ahead of Muslim terrorism. It's going to keep getting worse until we wake up and do something about it.


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Saturday, February 4, 2017 5:38 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, February 4, 2017 5:59 PM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Careful Hans, us Nazis ain't supposed to laugh, especially out loud!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

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Saturday, February 4, 2017 5:59 PM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Careful Hans, us Nazis ain't supposed to laugh, especially out loud!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

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Saturday, February 4, 2017 6:36 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Careful Hans, us Nazis ain't supposed to laugh, especially out loud!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Murderous hate-filled people are not funny.

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Saturday, February 4, 2017 6:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Clowns are.

You amuse me.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, February 4, 2017 11:01 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


HEY!

If you were offended by this ....



Or this

Or this

but not this ....


or this

or this

Then you can give yourself a nice big fat double-standard award!

You might wonder what this has to do with the thread. The point is that liberals can be fascists too, just with better virtue signaling.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Sunday, February 5, 2017 1:52 AM

REAVERFAN


And this is where fascism proves that liberalism can't be fascism. ^

Why is it that fascists always try to pretend they aren't?




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Sunday, February 5, 2017 2:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
And this is where fascism proves that liberalism can't be fascism. ^
Why is it that fascists always try to pretend they aren't? -REAVERFAN


I can't tell if you're dense or just... dense. But give yourself a big phat DOUBLE STANDARD AWARD! Everything that you just said about Nazis applies to you.

But if you WANT to discuss this point-by-point, well then ... let's begin.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Sunday, February 5, 2017 12:56 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Ok REAVER, apparently YOU don't want to engage in "reasoned debate" about your own position, so I'll do it for you.

First of all I find your posts terribly confused. You wind up doing everything you accuse "fascists" of doing:

Fear-mongering and dehumanization
Quote:
vampires, ruthless killers, They want to kill everyone, "these people", oppressor, coercion, sociopath, anti-democratic, perversion, harass and abuse, authoritarian, pure violence and murder, genocide, "abuse and slurs. Every. Fucking. Time" (sounds like THUGR to me- SIGNY)
CHECK

Holding yourself up as somehow "better than" ... "your people" are pure and know the truth
Quote:
goodhearted, open-minded people like us, liberal, good faith, honest
CHECK

And what YOU propose doing about the people you call "fascist"
Quote:
shut them up
spread ... propaganda
bash them when they try to organize
bash the fash
taxpayers should not allow any speakers ...
eliminate them by any means necessary

Well, REAVER, that sounds pretty fascist to me! You apparently didn't understand the point of "The Authoritarians" http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/ (which you briefly allude to). The author begins his book by saying that authoritarianism exists on BOTH sides of the ideological divide. All you're doing is promoting liberal authoritarianism.

Look, dood, there has been plenty of bad behavior on BOTH sides. All you have to do is look at both the anti-Obama AND anti-Trump hype to see that.

But shutting down free speech in "defense" of free speech ... isn't that inherently self-contradictory? Eliminating "them" by any means necessary ... doesn't that make you just as bad as "them"?

It's the old "ends versus means" argument. If you think a particular behavior is "wrong" when the "other side" does it, just don't start that behavior yourself.

Now, I DO believe in self-defense. I'm not advocating some sort of Christ-like consistency while you're getting crucified. But there is such a thing as proportionate response: The response to speech that you don't like is debate, not a riot. The response to someone throwing a Molotov cocktail is arrest, not "eliminating them". The response to losing an election is to advocate better for your party, not lying and propaganda. The response to a full-on military attack is a full-on military defense.

Don't "go there" first. Hysteria is beneath you.




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Tuesday, February 7, 2017 5:51 AM

REAVERFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
And this is where fascism proves that liberalism can't be fascism. ^
Why is it that fascists always try to pretend they aren't? -REAVERFAN


I can't tell if you're dense or just... dense. But give yourself a big phat DOUBLE STANDARD AWARD! Everything that you just said about Nazis applies to you.

But if you WANT to discuss this point-by-point, well then ... let's begin.


I can absolutely tell that YOU'RE dense, but I've been here for a while and already knew that.

You are constantly being proven wrong and live in a world of pure denial of facts and logic. That's why you're a Nazi and I'm not. You can't be reasoned with. You are an enemy to logic. You spread nothing but lies and hate. Hitler would love you.

That's your world. Your life. It's all you are. Sad.

It is NOT the same on both sides. Dylann Roof and Alexandre Bissonnette murdered 15 people between them. Why? Because they were Nazis, totally brainwashed in the hate they were taught by people like Richard Spencer an Milo Yannopoulos.

You can point to nothing even close on the left. Nothing. Your side harbors the nazis. Our side kicks their bitch asses.

I just proved you wrong. Again.



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Friday, February 10, 2017 10:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


LIBERAL FREE SPEECH: "SHUT IT DOWN"

Start at approx 7 minutes



Student reporter bullied by professor



Berkeley riots




"Punching Nazis at the UC Berkeley riots"



DNC paid for violence at Trump rallies, blamed Trump supporters





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Friday, February 10, 2017 11:51 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


THINK AS I THINK OR YOU ARE A NAZI!!!!

lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, February 10, 2017 12:56 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
And this is where fascism proves that liberalism can't be fascism. ^
Why is it that fascists always try to pretend they aren't? -REAVERFAN


I can't tell if you're dense or just... dense. But give yourself a big phat DOUBLE STANDARD AWARD! Everything that you just said about Nazis applies to you.

But if you WANT to discuss this point-by-point, well then ... let's begin.


I can absolutely tell that YOU'RE dense, but I've been here for a while and already knew that.

You are constantly being proven wrong and live in a world of pure denial of facts and logic. That's why you're a Nazi and I'm not. You can't be reasoned with. You are an enemy to logic. You spread nothing but lies and hate. Hitler would love you.

That's your world. Your life. It's all you are. Sad.

It is NOT the same on both sides. Dylann Roof and Alexandre Bissonnette murdered 15 people between them. Why? Because they were Nazis, totally brainwashed in the hate they were taught by people like Richard Spencer an Milo Yannopoulos.

You can point to nothing even close on the left. Nothing. Your side harbors the nazis. Our side kicks their bitch asses.

I just proved you wrong. Again.






---------------------


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Friday, February 10, 2017 1:00 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
LIBERAL FREE SPEECH: "SHUT IT DOWN"



The problem here comrade is you suggesting we should shut down any form of " FREE SPEACH. " It shows you respect and know nothing about this free and democratic country. Your post is exactly what reaverfan is talking about. That said, reaverfan nailed who you are in another post and for that received a major thumbs up from me.

---------------------


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Friday, February 10, 2017 1:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
This post is exactly what reaverfan is talking about. I won't repost all the videos because I won't post bullshit. That said, reaverfan nailed who you are in another post and for that received a major thumbs up from me.


Throwing the word Nazi around is a little juvenile though, dontcha think?

Nazis were actual terrible people who did many terrible things and many of them actually took great pleasure in hurting or even killing other human beings who weren't like them.

Regardless of your opinions about Signey, I have great doubt that she's out there harming people or even killing kittens.

You libs like throwing words like Nazi around without realizing how you trivialize the true meaning of those words when you do so.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, February 10, 2017 1:10 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
This post is exactly what reaverfan is talking about. I won't repost all the videos because I won't post bullshit. That said, reaverfan nailed who you are in another post and for that received a major thumbs up from me.


Throwing the word Nazi around is a little juvenile though, dontcha think?

Nazis were actual terrible people who did many terrible things and many of them actually took great pleasure in hurting or even killing other human beings who weren't like them.

Regardless of your opinions about Signey, I have great doubt that she's out there harming people or even killing kittens.

You libs like throwing words like Nazi around without realizing how you trivialize the true meaning of those words when you do so.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


I posted a comment and then you quoted it. It was a work in progress. It happened fast. That said, if you follow Sig's posts from topic to topic, you will find she absolutely represents a far right neo conservatism. Right down to being a Jew hater.

---------------------


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Friday, February 10, 2017 9:12 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I'm willing to bet that there are a few Holocaust survivors and their kin who don't appreciate the word Nazi being bandied about by people who have no idea what it's like to be truly oppressed by pure evil.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, February 10, 2017 11:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm willing to bet that there are a few Holocaust survivors and their kin who don't appreciate the word Nazi being bandied about by people who have no idea what it's like to be truly oppressed by pure evil.



Do Right, Be Right. :)


Since my dad was a massacre survivor, I'm willing to bet the same. I look at those videos and I ask myself: WHO is the vampire at the door? Maybe, at this point, both "sides" are.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Sunday, February 12, 2017 10:46 AM

REAVERFAN


Wow. That's a lot of fake news just to prove yourself wrong. Hannity lied through his teeth (again). Delusional.

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Sunday, February 12, 2017 11:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Wow. That's a lot of fake news just to prove yourself wrong. Hannity lied through his teeth (again). Delusional.


Huh?
Are those fake videos?





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Sunday, February 12, 2017 4:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:

Wow. That's a lot of fake news just to prove yourself wrong. Hannity lied through his teeth (again). Delusional.-REAVERFAN

Huh?
Are those fake videos?


Looks like REAVERFAN has taken to lying, too?



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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