Is the Russia thing even real? by BYTEMITE

Maybe I do need to respond. I like your thoughts here, I was considering some of them at the time of writing but I forgot to include them.

- The emails. Yes. I wanted to discuss this and forgot. I think there was hacking - Trump even was goading Russia to keep hacking, though maybe that was a joke. But there is reason that Putin would not want Hillary in the whitehouse, besides the fact that she is also untrustworthy and the Clintons have kinda made a mess in the middle east. Hillary questioned Putin's election results in 2012, and I think he's had it out for her since. I also think Russia/Putin have the resources to do this hacking.

I also think both sides were hacked, and only Clinton's were leaked for the same reason. I think everyone probably has egg on their face over this.

And yes, I think they looked the other way on purpose. I think initially that the intelligence community wanted Trump in office, not Clinton. I think they thought they could control Trump.

The way they were not forthcoming about the hacking or the email leaks is why I mentioned how they had a history of concealing or downplaying information while intending to use it to their advantage later.

-"Trump was an idiot to start out of the gate with negative remarks about the Intel community." Yeah, that is seriously dangerous.

-Yeah I really don't like his attitude towards women. Putin is maybe Trump trying to be diplomatic (or make bundles of money) but it's also kinda weird. It's not like we haven't had presidents before willing to speak openly about leaders of countries that we have poor relationships with.

-"I don't think they want that job any larger than it already is." I think they just like the feeling of power, but maybe I am turning them into more of a boogeyman than they are.

-"they're all untrustworthy!" Amen.

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Thursday, February 16, 2017 7:05 PM

Quote:

Yeah, I think there's no question just how that particular leak might have happened.

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Thursday, February 16, 2017 9:11 PM

At this point Byte, I'm really just going to sit this one out and see what happens. If you look in other threads here, the regular left seems to be having a big party and celebrating the undeniable impeachment. If fff.net RWED were your only source of news, it would sure seem that it was an undeniable fact.

If I had to pick one of your 3 options in your first post, I would probably go with 3.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, February 17, 2017 12:29 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
At this point Byte, I'm really just going to sit this one out and see what happens. If you look in other threads here, the regular left seems to be having a big party and celebrating the undeniable impeachment.

The only opinions about impeachment that count are those of Congressional Republicans. The Democrats have already decided Trump has to go. Maybe the Republicans will flip on Trump, but only if he really screws up badly, say, dancing naked in the fountain at the World War II Memorial. It could happen if Trump’s dementia gets worse. Sad -- for his embarrassed children.

The nine most insane moments from Donald Trump’s reality-challenged press conference
https://qz.com/912956/real-leaks-fake-news-nine-insane-moments-from-tr
umps-press-conference/

Here Are Your Highlights of Today's Trump Press Meltdown
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/02/here-are-your-highlights-todays
-trump-press-meltdown

Donald Trump’s explanation for why he fired Michael Flynn makes no sense
www.vox.com/2017/2/16/14640956/trump-press-conference-flynn-fired

By the way, the entire point of this press conference seemed to be directed at one thing: accusing the press of being horrible and dishonest. This came up in nearly every Trump answer. This is a great strategy for shoring up his base, of course. As near as I can tell, conservatives all thought this dumpster fire of a press conference was a terrific performance.

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Friday, February 17, 2017 10:06 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Trump suggested he could boost his popularity by destroying a Russian naval ship operating off the US East Coast—but that he would do the politically unpopular thing and seek a peaceful relationship with Moscow instead.

The US president said the following, making reference to his secretary of state, Rex Tillerson:

“If we could get along with Russia, that’s a positive thing. We have a very talented man, Rex Tillerson, who’s going to be meeting with them shortly, and I told him, I said, ‘I know politically it’s probably not good for me.’ The greatest thing I could do is shoot that ship that’s 30 miles off shore right out of the water. Everyone in this country’s going to say, ‘Oh, it’s so great.’ That’s not great. That’s not great. I would love to be able to get along with Russia. Now, you’ve had a lot of presidents that haven’t taken that tack. Look where we are now.

In fact, shooting the Russian ship “out of the water” would be well outside the bounds of legality, very likely provoke a heavily armed foreign power. The US would face an increased likelihood of similar attacks on its own ships around the globe, with Russia and other potential enemies drawing justification from the US’s aggressive, out-of-the-blue act.

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Friday, February 17, 2017 10:39 AM

Hi BYTEMITE. If you watched Trumps press conference 2-16-17, you may have thought shit, I've seen sore losers before, but this is the first time I've seen a sore winner.

He was caught in real time, lying. "Creating fake news", and his beliefs were out of touch with reality. He was spiteful, disrespectful and vengeful towards most everyone there, and not there.

It was as if he needed a fix. To stand in front of the TV camera and play to his base. He said he was enjoying himself. He was rude and treated everyone poorly. He scared a lot of people. Republicans and Democrats. On and off the record.

And yes the Russian thing is real. We need to get to the bottom of what's going on. It isn't just what we know about the contacts with Russia during the campaign. Or long before by some of his aids. It's also about the way he speaks about them. It's way out of character for him. He has been critical of all our allies ( that's beginning to change ) but with Russia and Putin it's always good. He says they are the moral equivalent to the United States. When he was confronted with Putin being a murderer, he said we murder to. He pointed to Iraq. I recognize the tone of speak he displays for Russia. I see it here everyday with SIG THE TROLL and 1kiki.
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Friday, February 17, 2017 12:33 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I don't think it's useful to imagine the "intelligence community" as an undifferentiated mass. I think the CIA-NSA-StateDepartment form their own nexus, as a group of rogue lawbreakers who do whatever they want, If the CIA doesn't get the money it wants, they fund themselves through illegal activities, and the State Department just goes sucking up to those quasi-government NGOs to do their dirty work for them.

and the DIA and FBI form another. I have no idea where the remaining 13 intelligence groups stand.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Friday, February 17, 2017 12:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

If I had to pick one of your 3 options in your first post, I would probably go with 3.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I respect that Jack. You and I have had a hard time seeing eye to eye lately, but perhaps some of that has been that you've felt like you had to keep defending yourself from other people.

That response indicates to me that you're listening to both sides and you're weighing them carefully.

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Friday, February 17, 2017 12:39 PM

Quote:
with Russia and Putin it's always good. He says they are the moral equivalent to the United States. When he was confronted with Putin being a murderer, he said we murder to. He pointed to Iraq. I recognize the tone of speak he displays for Russia.

That's actually one of the few times I've heard Trump speak where I didn't roll my eyes out of my head.

I think Russia is awful, but when Trump says "we have blood on our hands too," I have to sit back and think "well, for once he's not exactly wrong there."

But I will agree that it is super weird and does potentially seem out of character for Trump. He doesn't strike me as someone who puts anyone on an equal level to him, or ever admits to faults. Doing so, to him, I think makes him feel like he's given up ground, or given someone leverage over him.

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Friday, February 17, 2017 12:45 PM

Quote:
I don't think it's useful to imagine the "intelligence community" as an undifferentiated mass. I think the CIA-NSA-StateDepartment form their own nexus, as a group of rogue lawbreakers who do whatever they want, If the CIA doesn't get the money it wants, they fund themselves through illegal activities, and the State Department just goes sucking up to those quasi-government NGOs to do their dirty work for them.

and the DIA and FBI form another. I have no idea where the remaining 13 intelligence groups stand.

That's potentially fair. I've been a conspiracy theorist so long that it's pretty easy to just see them all as some amalgamated flesh monster from some horror film since they seem to use a lot of similar tactics and reasoning. But yeah, I do realize on some level that there are different factions and politics within that mass, and they're sometimes working at odds against each other.

Though I also think that no matter what faction we're looking at, I will probably feel like I don't like whatever they're doing or what their end goal is. I think that these groups operating in such secrecy are at odds with the concept of democracy/decision making by the public in a fundamental way.

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Friday, February 17, 2017 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I respect that Jack. You and I have had a hard time seeing eye to eye lately, but perhaps some of that has been that you've felt like you had to keep defending yourself from other people.

That response indicates to me that you're listening to both sides and you're weighing them carefully.

I respect where you're coming from too. At this point, we don't have enough information. Anybody celebrating Trump's impending impeachment or anybody blindly defending Trump here is just showing their extreme prejudice from either side of the aisle (although everyone here in the RWED these days claims they are an independent and hold no party loyalty at the same time).

Chances are we won't ever really know what is happening. The CIA and other organizations like it are not middle school playgrounds. The only reason we know anything we hear on the news is because somebody wants us to know what we're hearing.

All I can say for sure is that SOMETHING is going on, and I don't like any of it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, February 18, 2017 5:31 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Just to weigh in

There are many people claiming many different things Russia supposedly did.

Here's what I've gathered from the fractured and contradictory narrative to date about the DNC -

To go back to the DNC beginnings - way back when it first came out, Clapper made an interesting comment "(I'm) taken aback by the hyperventilation over this. ... I’m shocked someone did some hacking. That’s never happened before. (said dryly)” Also, at the time he refused to speculate on attribution. I believe that he was trying to keep it low key because in the world of cyber-spying, to enter into a spyagency-v-spyagency cyber-showdown would expose and disable too many lines of information. Anyway, that was the response before it got inflated for political purposes.

The story is murky on this point, but somehow the FBI believed that Russia had hacked the DNC. (Perhaps they were monitoring i-net communications.)

In any case the FBI went to the DNC with the warning, but the DNC was both slow to and inept at addressing the FBI's concerns, and separately, the DNC responded to a phishing attack that separately revealed years worth of Podesta emails.

But once the DNC did respond it hired CrowdStrike, and simultaneously locked the FBI out of looking at its servers directly.

SO ALL PUBLIC STATEMENTS MADE BY THE FBI AND OTHER INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES ARE PUBLICLY BASED ON THE LIMITED INFORMATION GIVEN TO THE FBI BY CROWDSTRIKE. And that information includes that the DNC server been breached by four or five SEPARATE intrusions.

IN THE MEANTIME, and ever since, wikileaks has insisted that the original DNC emails were handed off to them, person to person, by someone with legitimate access - a leaker, not a hacker.

Also, if you look at the dates, the latest dates of the released files are too old to have real relevance to the DNC. And the dates start and stop on specific dates, as if they were batch-loaded rather than gathered real-time.

There were a lot of statements made by select agencies and politicians - all without evidence - that have convinced idiots 'Russia hacked the election'. But I believe there are separate stories that were conflated for political gain. And these are the stories:

Russia - AND OTHER UNKNOWN ACTORS - were passively listening in on the DNC.
The US has also done similar eavesdropping on other nations.
This is SOP, and while despicable, it is in no way unusual or unexpected.

SEPARATELY, a DNC person, disgruntled by the corruption, leaked files to wikileaks.

The facts, however, didn't stop the Obama administration, the Clinton campaign, or the CIA from PLAYING GAMES AND THREATENING NATIONAL SECURITY RESOURCES, and lying about these events to mislead the public, and attempt to swing the election to Hillary.

But as a conclusion to all this, if you believe the media, and the agencies that make public statements to be carried by the media to a willing audience, the investigations concur.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-intelligence-idUSKBN14204E
Tue Dec 13, 2016 | 9:36pm EST
Exclusive: Top U.S. spy agency has not embraced CIA assessment on Russia hacking - sources
The overseers of the U.S. intelligence community have not embraced a CIA assessment that Russian cyber attacks were aimed at helping Republican President-elect Donald Trump win the 2016 election, three American officials said on Monday.

http://theduran.com/james-clappers-office-cia-wrong-russia-clinton-lea
ks/
CIA wrong on Russia and Clinton leaks, says James Clapper’s office
December 13, 2016, 7:15 pm 14 3,545
James Clapper's Office says CIA claim Russia behind DNC and Podesta leaks to swing election to Donald Trump unproven. FBI concurs.

Also, there are many news stories that indicate Russia had no effect on the outcome of the election. But that's for another day.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Saturday, February 18, 2017 5:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Russia - AND OTHER UNKNOWN ACTORS - were passively listening in on the DNC.
The US has also done similar eavesdropping on other nations.
This is SOP, and while despicable, it is in no way unusual or unexpected.

I don't know about despicable. Whatever nations aren't actively and successfully doing this on a regular basis are going to fall behind. It has become one of those necessary evils with technology today.

Cyberwarfare is a thing, and it happens every minute of every day. Most folk don't think of it as war because they don't know a thing about computers or how they work.

I laugh today when I think about my mom and my grandma carrying around computers they call phones that are over 100 times more powerful than the desktop I learned on back in HS. Almost everybody in civilized countries use computers everyday now and don't know a damn thing about what goes on under the hood.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, February 18, 2017 8:08 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

FWIW I find the whole 'we might as well do it to them since they're doing it to us' rather self-serving on the part of the spooks. If the US had a hardened system - and that includes personal computers WITHOUT BACK DOORS - hardened computers and servers - and encrypted communication - 'them others' couldn't spy on us. We'd be safe from the Rooskies and Chinee and identity thieves and everyone.

But then, 'our' spooks couldn't spy on us, either.

God forbid!

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Saturday, February 18, 2017 9:42 PM

You do have a point there. And if we are to believe Gene Hackman's character from Enemy of the State any tech we have in our possession the Government had 20 years ago.

The problem is that nothing is really impervious to hacking. For years my "Mac guy" brother told me that Apple products were un-hackable. That obviously wasn't the case... there just weren't many businesses or people using them to make it worth while trying to hack them when PCs were so much easier to hack and had a much bigger potential payoff.

It's not all 1's and 0's either. The biggest threat to cyber security is social engineering. The only meaningful step toward having a completely un-hackable system is SkyNET, and I don't think that's a road any of us are really looking forward to going down...... even though it is just a matter of time.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, February 18, 2017 11:03 PM

Byte,

A few thoughts here.

1) The NWO has hated Russia so long that it no longer remembers why.

2) We hates it, my precious, so much, that yes, just tagging someone with a Russian flag is enough.

3) Everyone has business dealings with Russia. Even I have business dealing with Russia. But Ivanka is married to an ethnic Russian, half his family speaks it, it's no secret that Putin wanted Trump because Hillary was threatening to nuke Russia. The HRC herself actually did make 3 million off arranging the Uranium deal he mentioned.

Talk, all talk? Probably. HRC wouldn't have nuked Russia, but she would have gone to war over Ukraine. And Syria. And now Trump is talking sending troops to Syria on the Assad side. So, sure, there's been a bit of a switch.

Blowing the ship out of the water, definitely all talk. That would not start a war, it happens every few years, but random morons do it, not heads of state.

Putin, mind you, is doing the exact some thing to the Russian press, trying to verbally distance himself from Trump. I'm sure the two of them can't wait to meet and get this nonsense behind them. The holdover of half a century of cold war is hard for either establishment to get over.

Another flipped variable: Obama admin was so cold shoulder to Israel that Netanyahu turned to Putin for assistance like 6 times last year. Ivanka, who might be de facto president, is an orthodox jew, so all that matters now.

Hacked emails turned out to be leaked by someone at the State Dept offic. HRC fired. He got them off of the server, because Podesta's password was "password"

It's like the story of HRC getting the debate questions came out because she went backstage and ranted at her staff about having a question asked that wasn't pre-approved.

All you have to do in cases like this is show Julian Assange where the gold is, and he'll dig. If Russia *DID* have the power to rig a US election, we'd already be done for.

Muslim ban. This sort of thing is the sad truth about Trump: He's not different enough. The ban is the same one Obama passed a year ago, the wall is the same old wall plan Hillary supported in '06, which is already partially built. A whole lot of this is same old same old. The Clintons were at the Trumps wedding, they vacation together, Ivanka and Chelsea are BFFs.

So, we never really get free of it, but the press et al are certainly hopping mad that sudden for the first time since the 80s, we're not at war.

So there's a lot of empty rhetoric, and meaningless gestures which are done to please one oligarch or another, and some people die because of it.

But when we leave our pro-German stance for a pro-Russian one, what will be the fallout, and who will really be driving it?

Trump is like a Fezzik with an ewok on his head playing monkey in the middle while various nefarious NWO types pull him in their directions. So, while he's playing the part, brinksman ship with china, occasionally slipping up and remembering that he speaks Spanish, we better hope someone, Ivanka or Pence, figures out what's going on, and knows how to play it intentionally.

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Saturday, February 18, 2017 11:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Hacked emails turned out to be leaked by someone at the State Dept offic. HRC fired. He got them off of the server, because Podesta's password was "password"

Social Engineering, and lol.... "Password"

Very interesting post there DT.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, February 18, 2017 11:42 PM

Thanks.

Yeah, and seems the media has yet to realize its irrelevance. Trump also. He's talking about CNN. Their evening news has like 1.4 million viewers. Trump's own twitter feed has 15 times that. If someone heard about what CNN said about Trump, they probably heard it from Trump. He should see to that.

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Sunday, February 19, 2017 8:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
He has no grip on reality. He's been living in a golden bird cage for the last 50 years - totally warped.

G, you couldn't be more right.

Swedes baffled by Trump's suggestion of major incident

HELSINKI -- Swedes have been scratching their heads and ridiculing President Donald Trump’s remark that suggested a major incident had happened in Sweden.

During a rally in Florida on Saturday, Trump said “look what’s happening last night in Sweden” as he alluded to past terror attacks in Europe.

The comment has prompted a barrage of social media reaction on Sunday and #lastnightinsweden #swedenincident hashtags began trending on Twitter:

Former Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt tweeted , “Sweden? Terror attack? What has he been smoking? Questions abound.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/swedes-baffled-by-trumps-suggestion-of-maj
or-incident/

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Sunday, February 19, 2017 8:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
with Russia and Putin it's always good. He says they are the moral equivalent to the United States. When he was confronted with Putin being a murderer, he said we murder to. He pointed to Iraq. I recognize the tone of speak he displays for Russia.

That's actually one of the few times I've heard Trump speak where I didn't roll my eyes out of my head.

I think Russia is awful, but when Trump says "we have blood on our hands too," I have to sit back and think "well, for once he's not exactly wrong there."

But I will agree that it is super weird and does potentially seem out of character for Trump. He doesn't strike me as someone who puts anyone on an equal level to him, or ever admits to faults. Doing so, to him, I think makes him feel like he's given up ground, or given someone leverage over him.

You may not have rolled your eyes but the Swedes sure did.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/swedes-baffled-by-trumps-suggestion-of-maj
or-incident

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Sunday, February 19, 2017 9:01 AM

Doesn't matter if they all hate trump and were only on for 1 min. Still means they heard it there first. He's just spreading their word for them.

That anti-trump slant was decided long beforehand. He was supposed to be the fall guy and lose to Hillary, it's what he was hired to do. And he would have done it if she hadn't dragged the name through the mud.

He's spent his entire life building that name into a brand, and she destroyed that. It was an obvious own goal.

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Sunday, February 19, 2017 9:38 AM

McCain Warns Suppressing Press ‘Is How Dictators Get Started’

Republican Sen. John McCain took a veiled swipe at President Donald Trump's attacks on the media, cautioning that suppressing the press "is how dictators get started."

McCain, who has broken with Trump on several issues, made the comments in an exclusive interview with NBC's "Meet the Press" host Chuck Todd, after being asked about the president's condemnation of several media outlets as "fake news" and "an enemy of the American people."

"I hate the press. I hate you especially," McCain joked. "But the fact is we need you. We need a free press. We must have it. It's vital."

"If you want to preserve — I'm very serious now — if you want to preserve democracy as we know it, you have to have a free and many times adversarial press," McCain said. "And without it, I am afraid that we would lose so much of our individual liberties over time. That's how dictators get started."

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/mccain-warns-suppressing-press-h
ow-dictators-get-started-n722906

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Sunday, February 19, 2017 9:43 AM

France Rips Russia for Election Cyberattacks

“This form of interference in French democratic life is unacceptable and I denounce it.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2017/02/19/france-rips-russia-for-
election-cyberattacks.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl

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Sunday, February 19, 2017 10:42 AM

John McCain who stood in front of life sized posters of four Nazi war criminals and gave a nazi salute to a group of nazis in nazi uniforms probably knows a thing or two about starting a dictatorship. Defending democracy?

https://politicalvelcraft.org/2014/10/08/obama-mccain-did-this-when-uk
raine-president-viktor-yanukovych-said-no-to-the-european-union/

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Sunday, February 19, 2017 10:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
John McCain who stood in front of life sized posters of four Nazi war criminals and gave a nazi salute to a group of nazis in nazi uniforms probably knows a thing or two about starting a dictatorship. Defending democracy?

https://politicalvelcraft.org/2014/10/08/obama-mccain-did-this-when-uk
raine-president-viktor-yanukovych-said-no-to-the-european-union/

Here's your source for the lies you post about McCain. Bigoted and sick to say the least. You're not to bright and apparently easily misled.

Political Vel Craft is a website hosting the paranoid ravings of a Minnesota-based Teabagger lunatic in the form of green ink articles and a blog. The proprietor's favorite conspiracies seem to be ones of the Obamunist, birther, Illuminati, New World Order, Federal Reserve, chemtrail, and international Jewish varieties. The site is also ragingly racist and promotes bigotry of all kinds, including homophobia, Islamophobia and anti-Semitism.

In the world of Political Vel Craft, just about every political leader is a Rothschild stooge (and the British monarchy plays into this somehow, because apparently they have massive amounts of political power). The site, for all the anti-Islam and anti-Arab rambling, ironically dredges up an old anti-Semitic canard once popular among some in the Middle East (and Russia): Most Jews aren't really Jews![1] This is the old and widely debunked "Khazar myth" which states that Ashkenazi Jews are actually descended from the Turks of the Khazar Empire. The (pseudo?) Jews, according to the site, are in bed with the commies to create the New World Order and we need to "drive the money-changers from the temple" to stop them. It appears as though Father Coughlin never really died, he's actually locked up in someone's basement in Minnesota with only an internet connection to maintain human contact.

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Sunday, February 19, 2017 12:54 PM

whoa, put a lot of effort into that? Look up McCain someday.

Never seen the site before, but that story was everywhere.

- DT, Khazar Jew, and mythical being.

ps. Khazars are Ukrainian. Ashkenazim are German, as their name implies. The 'nazis renamed the Khazar victims of the holocaust "Ashkenazi" so they could be victims of their own genocide.

If what you say is true, then sure, we died s Rothschild pawns, and Turkish slavic mongerls, okay, but surely the 'nazis themselves created the commies (1850-1853) Hess, Marx, Engels, long before they created the NSDAP, (which our Sephardi brethren nickednamed after them)

Father Coughlin is alive and well and I saw him recently at his 125th birthday.

And now Jews are really Jews, it's a religion. The people of Judah converted to Hellenism long before being forcibly converted to Islam. Christians aren't really Christian, either. It turns out they're not descended from Christ and his followers.

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm sick in bed and it's so much fun!

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Wednesday, February 22, 2017 6:44 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

For most of my life, the Looney Lefty Libtards have had a love affair with the Communists in Russia.

Why the sudden change? Isn't Communism utopia for Libtards?

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Wednesday, February 22, 2017 6:57 PM

RIVERLOVE

A real Russia thing :

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Thursday, February 23, 2017 7:49 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
A real Russia thing :

See, the Libtards loved Russia so recently, what's the big deal now?

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Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:27 PM