The Yemen Thread by DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Not sure I follow the point you are trying to make.
You support the eradication of terrorists, murderers?
You support the use of children as shields from surgically targeted strikes?
You bemoan the loss of beloved and acclaimed innocent Gitmo detainees?
You prefer Trump wait about 7 years before cleaning up the gene pool?

That's pretty appalling. Genetic terrorists? Also, terror suspects include children? And terror suspects are somehow terrorists without ever having a trial? i'm sorry, my point was this: It's their fucking country. No terrorists. It's Yemen, and the Yemeni are trying, and have been, to separated themselves since the end of the cold war, why are we bombing them? because they're too close to "our" oil, so we're backing the saudi campaign to annex them. And oh look, a large number of false narratives from both sides.

I grant there's such a thing as a genetic male, but not a genetic terrorist

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 7:10 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Not sure I follow the point you are trying to make.
You support the eradication of terrorists, murderers?
You support the use of children as shields from surgically targeted strikes?
You bemoan the loss of beloved and acclaimed innocent Gitmo detainees?
You prefer Trump wait about 7 years before cleaning up the gene pool?
That's pretty appalling. Genetic terrorists? Also, terror suspects include children? And terror suspects are somehow terrorists without ever having a trial? i'm sorry, my point was this: It's their fucking country. No terrorists. It's Yemen, and the Yemeni are trying, and have been, to separated themselves since the end of the cold war, why are we bombing them? because they're too close to "our" oil, so we're backing the saudi campaign to annex them. And oh look, a large number of false narratives from both sides.

I grant there's such a thing as a genetic male, but not a genetic terrorist

OK, thanks for the clarification. I was getting derailed with all of the "American" references to the targets in the linkys.

So you're saying the Yemeni have been trying to separate themselves within Yemen between terrorists and peaceful factions? Do you feel the peaceful factions are being out-shouted or overshadowed by the terrorist bent? Do you feel the peaceful factions were well served by Obama's Middle East policies?
Do you feel the Saudis created the perception than Yemenis are enemies of America? As part of their long-term strategy to acquire Yemen? Does Yemen have something special that the Saudis want?

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Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:38 PM

RIVERLOVE

Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:

The target: Nawar al-Awlaki

Just horrible that this beautiful child and 8 others along with the American casualties died for what? ... some supposed Al Qaida computer hard drives? And this supposed "intelligence" changes what exactly? What was so important that she had to die for it?

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 3:50 PM

SOCKPUPPET

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:

Just horrible that this beautiful child and 8 others along with the American casualties died for what? ... some supposed Al Qaida computer hard drives? And this supposed "intelligence" changes what exactly? What was so important that she had to die for it?

So true, all so Saudi's can invade and control the Suez oil trade. It's what we do. Clinton, Bush, Obama, and now Trump. She was a US citizen too. You'd think someone'd raise hell, but you know the score: oppose the politician, not the war. Meh.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:47 PM

RIVERLOVE

Quote:
Originally posted by SOCKPUPPET:
Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:

Just horrible that this beautiful child and 8 others along with the American casualties died for what? ... some supposed Al Qaida computer hard drives? And this supposed "intelligence" changes what exactly? What was so important that she had to die for it?

So true, all so Saudi's can invade and control the Suez oil trade. It's what we do. Clinton, Bush, Obama, and now Trump. She was a US citizen too. You'd think someone'd raise hell, but you know the score: oppose the politician, not the war. Meh.

I'm not going to start screaming "war crime", but someone must be held accountable for killing these kids. The United States cannot kill children and just brush their deaths off as collateral damage. No General, no Intelligence bigwig, no President, no one could ever justify these Yemeni children's deaths, or even come close to answering satisfactorily to the anger I feel over this.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2017 9:06 PM

JSF,

I mentioned americans because as president of the US bombing americans is something you're not supposed to do.

Now, re the situation in Yemen, it's complicated.
1) Yemen was one of the cold war divided territories, a communist soviet north yemen and a pro-western south yemen.
2) To say "terrorists"complicates matters. Just about no one in Yemen is interested in any way in international terrorism, even if some of the same groups are present. What's happening instead is a civil war. So you might hear "Al Qaeda" or "Mujahideen" but these are fighters in a civil war, not terrorists. In Yemen, I mean.
3) A group may be Saudi or Iranian backed, but the issue here is what a post cold war Yemen would look like.

There's been some trouble for many years obviously. Former communist North Yemen now technically rules Yemen, and has in the post-war period, but lately Saudi backed Sunni Wahhabi militias have taken over the south and are pressing into the north.

My point is not to take sides in the conflict, just to clarify the situation:
Iran is backing North Yemeni Shia Zaidi Houthi rebels who want to secede from Saudi control and take some or all of Yemen with them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_insurgency_in_Yemen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaidiyyah
For some perspective on the issue, it's worth pointing out that the Zaidi ruled yemen for 1000 years, and are entirely domestic, until now, when they have support from Iran.
Specifically:

Quote:
JSF:
So you're saying the Yemeni have been trying to separate themselves within Yemen between terrorists and peaceful factions?

I think the Saudi backed militias would fit our traditional model of "al qaeda" muhaehidden interfering internationally, whereas the defending Shia are more of a guerilla force, but I wouldn't call either one peaceful. Unless you mean outside of Yemen.

Quote:
Do you feel the peaceful factions are being out-shouted or overshadowed by the terrorist bent?

I'm sure if we gave them their country back, they'd be fine. Instead, we're helping the Saudis, thus making America their enemy, so they might end up attacking us just because we got involved.

Quote:
Do you feel the peaceful factions were well served by Obama's Middle East policies?

Lol. Um. No. Actually, I don't think anyone benefited from the Obama Nation other than a few international bankers.

Quote:
Do you feel the Saudis created the perception than Yemenis are enemies of America?

Oh, definitely.

Quote:
As part of their long-term strategy to acquire Yemen?

Definitely

Quote:
Does Yemen have something special that the Saudis want?

Definitely. First, lots of oil, and second, the Gulf of Aden, which controls oil traffic through the Red Sea.

Yemen was the eastern most kingdom of the kingdoms of Upper Egypt, and like with persia, the existence of ancient history created a cultural barrier, which doesn't sit well for the concept of a peninsular unity, which i'm sure is the koolaid the Saudis are peddling.

The problem with situations like this is that if we back the Saudis, someone else stronger than Iran will ultimately end up the Zaidi, so I suspect there's not really any way the issue is going to be long term resolved in the Saudis favor short of genocide. IOW, they're going to have to go in and militarily occupy the oil fields and ports and are going to require our constant military aid in order to maintain the occupation.

Not being a Yemeni, I can't speak to the N/S split, and cultural divides, and whether 30 years of communist rule disrupted society and if so to what extent, or if the westernization was pro-sunni in any way, but clearly the Zaidi are still there, and north yemen is still shia and south yemen is still sunni.

What this is not about is that Saudi are not currently going in to defend Sunnis. They're attacking Shia. Now, without us in this conflict, would Saudi forces be needed to protect Sunnis? I don't know. This is the sort of thing I feel it's best to let the Yemeni decide. Instead, we're joining the Saudis in going in and stirring things up because it in some way benefits us, probably re:oil.

Obviously it looks like the re-merger of Yemen was jumping the gun a little.

Quote:
G:

For the glory of Trump! He doesn't seem to have the intelligence or empathy to connect the action with the consequences, or the consequences with real people, or real people with any personal responsibility. He's been living in that King Trump land for too long.

G, Yes, neither did Obama. I think that in reality, he just rubberstamped the order having no idea what it was, and I'm sure Obama and Bush did the same. I'm not about to forget that each of them pulled off about a million of these, and that's what I want to see not happen now. I don't think specifically Trump is a better person, I don't know him.

I think the situation Trump being under a lot more scrutiny could be used to reign in what is probably the devilish work of some undersecretaries who have been in all three administrations.

And I appreciate that you came over here to take a look. I think that getting better policy is what we can do. Kicking the tax form horse, like the birth certificate horse, is not going to gt us anywhere. This isn't about disqualifying the president, but shaking him and saying "Hey, this is America here, and you work for us, and this is not okay." Something we all should've done a long time ago.

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:

I'm not going to start screaming "war crime", but someone must be held accountable for killing these kids. The United States cannot kill children and just brush their deaths off as collateral damage. No General, no Intelligence bigwig, no President, no one could ever justify these Yemeni children's deaths, or even come close to answering satisfactorily to the anger I feel over this.

I agree complete. The attack on Nawar "Nora" al-Awlaki and the other children is unjustifiable and requires an investigation. We have a few options.
petitions.whitehouse.gov
twitter.com/realDonaldTrump
But before doing anything should probably bring awareness to the issue, which is part of why I posted it here. I think that Trump needs to know that those of us who accept him as president are not supporters or followers, and this is not going to be like the bush or obama years where this sort of story is a weekly occurance and nothing ever gets done. At least a head must roll, that will be sufficient to stop them from doing it again.
Here's an article admitting the fubar, but we also can't go around with another Fallujah, "oops, bombed a wedding again, my bad."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4174310/Daughter-Anwar-al-Awla
ki-Trump-s-raid.html

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Thursday, March 16, 2017 3:40 PM

RIVERLOVE

Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
I agree complete. The attack on Nawar "Nora" al-Awlaki and the other children is unjustifiable and requires an investigation. We have a few options.
petitions.whitehouse.gov
twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

Where's Amnesty Int'l., The World Court, or even the UN in all this? They're always crying about some stupid thing or another, but when there's something real like this, nada?

Quote:
Trump needs to know that those of us who accept him as president are not supporters or followers, and this is not going to be like the bush or obama years where this sort of story is a weekly occurance and nothing ever gets done. At least a head must roll, that will be sufficient to stop them from doing it again.

It's a horrible thing and you're right about heads rolling. It makes Benghazi look like a Sunday picnic.

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Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:26 PM

6STRINGJOKER

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Just horrible that this beautiful child and 8 others along with the American casualties died for what? ... some supposed Al Qaida computer hard drives? And this supposed "intelligence" changes what exactly? What was so important that she had to die for it?

For the glory of Trump! He doesn't seem to have the intelligence or empathy to connect the action with the consequences, or the consequences with real people, or real people with any personal responsibility. He's been living in that King Trump land for too long.

You really need to drop your partisan bullshit. Just because the media didn't talk about it the last 8 years doesn't mean that it hasn't been happening.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_from_U.S._drone_stri
kes

According to the Long War Journal, as of mid-2011, the drone strikes in Pakistan since 2006 had killed 2,018 militants and 138 civilians.[4] The New America Foundation stated in mid-2011 that from 2004 to 2011, 80% of the 2,551 people killed in the strikes were militants. The Foundation stated that 95% of those killed in 2010 were militants and that, as of 2012, 15% of the total people killed by drone strikes were either known civilians or unknown.[5] The Foundation also states that in 2012 the rate of known civilian and unknown casualties was 2 percent, whereas the Bureau of Investigative Journalism say the rate of civilian casualties for 2012 is 9 percent.[6] The Bureau, based on extensive research in mid-2011, claims that at least 385 civilians were among the dead, including more than 160 children.[7] The Obama administration estimated in June 2016 that US drone strikes under Obama had killed 64 individuals conclusively determined to be non-combatants, in addition to 52 individuals whose status remained in doubt.[8]

It has been reported that 160 children have died from UAV-launched attacks in Pakistan[9] and that over 1,000 civilians have been injured.[10] Moreover, additional reporting has found that known militant leaders have constituted only 2 percent of all drone-related fatalities.[11] These sources run counter to the Obama administration's claim that "nearly for the past year there hasn't been a single collateral death" due to UAV-based attacks.[12]

The New America Foundation estimates that for the period 2004-2011, the non-militant fatality rate was approximately 20%.[13]

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Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:

Where's Amnesty Int'l., The World Court, or even the UN in all this? They're always crying about some stupid thing or another, but when there's something real like this, nada?

Where were they for the last eight years?

Quote:
It's a horrible thing and you're right about heads rolling. It makes Benghazi look like a Sunday picnic.

Agreed, except about Benghazi. I posted this earlier, but the real issue in Benghazi was the connection with the chemical weapons and Al Nusra in Syria, and the spillover conflict. The final toll in that conflict was over a million, so it's not just about the assassination of four americans. It's just everyone talks about americans, including me above, because that's what get's the attention of americans.

Remember the Syrian gas attacks that we said Assad did? The UN and Wikileaks first said that it was Al Nusra, and then Seymour Hersh through down, and then the Turks who sold Al Nusra the weapons used in the attacks confessed, and said HRC told them to do sell Al Nusra (of ISIS) the Benghazi weapons. So that is some major treason there, and not an error.

But that said, it's about a pattern of behavior and what we consider acceptable behavior from our country. Killing schoolchildren is just not acceptable under any circumstance. Indiscriminately bombing foreign countries, we shouldn't do that, and teaming up with the Saudis in supporting some extremist militias, someone should definitely see to that. But if someone wants to dig into Benghazi, by all means, they should go ahead. I'm not defending anyone in govt on this score.

But in order to be a country that doesn't do this, we need the establishment to set rules for itself such that to fuck up this badly at least costs someone their job.

Here's some Benghazi links,
https://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat
-line

I'm not sure, this one might just be referencing the last one
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/pulitzer-prize-winning-journalist-hil
lary-sarin-gas-attack-syria-assad/

Also worth checking out is Sy Hersh's work on JSOC, and how terrorist militias gain access to US military supplies and money and become part of our foreign policy.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/07/07/preparing-the-battlefield

For more on the Yemen situation, the best place to start to understand it just wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_insurgency_in_Yemen

Yemen, and the nations on the 'travel ban' which is really identical to obama's travel ban, are in a list of seven countries which appeared on the PNAC papers in 1998 as targets for american intervention to protect US oil interests, as a stated goal, back when no one in this country care one whit about terrorism.

The other nations are Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen. This list used to include Afghanistan, which doesn't have oil interests, but was of interest in natural gas, but now it's chaos. Thanks to this list. And so are many others. Thanks to this list.

I assume that the travel ban was born of the desire to not have political opposition from the target countries, after Obama's 2009 invasion of Pakistan sparked a huge protest in the UK from their sizeable Pakistani minority. I doubt anyone in govt. is seriously concerned about terrorists from these countries.

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Friday, March 24, 2017 9:58 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Just horrible that this beautiful child and 8 others along with the American casualties died for what? ... some supposed Al Qaida computer hard drives? And this supposed "intelligence" changes what exactly? What was so important that she had to die for it? - RL

For the glory of ~~Trump!~~ Obama/ Hillary! S/He doesn't seem to have the intelligence or empathy to connect the action with the consequences, or the consequences with real people, or real people with any personal responsibility. S/He's been living in that King Neocon land for too long.

As usual you only demonstrate your ignorance with your posts. The raid was planned by ... who, again? The Saudi invasion of Yemen has been militarily supported by .... who, again? The Yemenis were being drone-killed by .... who, again?

Either you don't know what's been going on in Yemen for the past EIGHT YEARS, in which case you're ignorant, or you're pretending not to know, in which case you're a liar.

Quote:
7mn people face starvation as Yemen heads towards man-made famine – Oxfam

The situation in war-ravaged Yemen is starting to resemble a man-made famine, with almost seven million people “knowingly” pushed towards starvation, the latest report from the international humanitarian organization Oxfam says.

The ongoing “complex and bloody [civil] war” between the Houthi rebels and forces loyal to ousted President Mansur Hadi has led to the deaths of thousands, as the conflict peaked in 2015, the paper says. Attempts by the Saudi-led coalition to drive back the Houthis have only added to the plight of the people.

Over the past year, “airstrikes and fighting” have led to the deaths of around 7,600 people, with an average of 70 deaths a day, Oxfam said, calling on the world to not ignore the misery in the region.

“The world is now confronting… the largest humanitarian crisis since the creation of the United Nations, with more than 20 million people facing starvation and famine in South Sudan, Nigeria, Somalia and Yemen.”
Read more
Smoke rises from Al Hudaydah city of Yemen after Saudi-led coalition air attack to Houthis' quarters in Yemen © Abdu Muhammed Yahya Haydar / Anadolu Agency / Getty Images Saudi-led coalition's port op would cut off Yemen from food & aid supplies, Russia warns

Yemen, already the “poorest country in the region” prior to the conflict, has been sliding deeper into chaos and poverty over the past two years. The Saudi-led coalition forces “knowingly” worsen it, according to the report.

“Ports, roads and bridges, along with warehouses, farms and markets have been regularly destroyed by the Saudi-led coalition, draining the country’s food stocks,” the paper says. It also casts some blame for the misery on the Houthi rebels, who it claims are “delaying the delivery of life-saving relief, and sometimes detaining aid workers.”

“This, coupled with a flattened economy, has created an abyss of hunger and a serious threat of famine.”

https://www.rt.com/news/382157-yemen-famine-starvation-oxfam/

But, the source is RT so I'm sure you don't want to read about the already-beginning horror.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Friday, March 24, 2017 12:44 PM

Thanks for the link. I think something definitely needs to be done about the situation. Maybe we need to start the lobby that doesn't exist in America because of the travel ban.

I actually think that was the point of the obama/trump ban, to prevent any people from places we might bomb from being here to lobby against the bombing. just, IMHO.

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Friday, March 24, 2017 12:54 PM

Not quite sure what the point of the snark was. This is a surprisingly non-partisan thread. The only even nominal liberal here is G, and River? not really a liberal. I remember when you guys used to hash it out in the other direction.

Seems like people are actually concerned, but thanks for sharing the story, I'd missed the famine angle, must keep an eye on that. I find the media silence on this issue disturbing, they wouldn't even touch it for a chance to hurt Trump. What's that all about?

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Friday, March 24, 2017 4:53 PM

This time, G, Sig's snark aside, she was on topic.

Actually, it's a flaw with the forum. It's evolutionarily beneficial to any thread to have Off-Topic posts and trolling and flamewars. That's an issue. Thinking about this re:designing a site.

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Friday, March 24, 2017 5:24 PM

6STRINGJOKER

Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
I find the media silence on this issue disturbing, they wouldn't even touch it for a chance to hurt Trump. What's that all about?

My first thought would be that to attack Trump on this would be so obviously hypocritical that even the MSM wouldn't try it, but who are we kidding. That happens every day.

You bring up a good point here, DT. The article I posted was largely based off of a study done between 2004-2011. This will be the 3rd president we've had where drones in general don't really get any MSM coverage.

I wonder if it has to do anything with the fact that a lot of the common folk are starting to use drones for their own personal use as the tech gets cheaper?

I don't own one myself and don't know much about them, but I would assume that anything you're recording with higher end models can be equipped with wi-fi. Even if that's not true yet, there are drone "carriers" now that are designed to house your smart phone, and that is very much connected to the internet. In effect, the more that people buy this stuff and use it, the more cameras there are in the sky watching us that the government can tap into at any time they choose.

I think a huge reason that the MSM doesn't discuss drones much is it doesn't want to scare us out of using them. Once it becomes a daily occurrence for most of us to see them because the civilians are using them, it probably won't be that hard for the Government to start passing laws and flying their own in the name of "public safety".

How long thereafter do they start equipping those surveillance drones with weapons in the name of public safety?

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Friday, March 24, 2017 11:54 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

My problem with YOU, G, and the source of my snark, is that you're all broken up about one girl but don't seem to care too much about the tens of thousands of girls who are very much the same. In other words, it's your lack of objectivity that troubles me.

There are so many Obama apologists on the board and he is responsible for so many real issues that it's a little hard not to react when people ignore them. Especially since these issues HAVE NOT ENDED.

At least, not for the people who are experiencing them.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Saturday, March 25, 2017 10:40 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
My problem with YOU, G, and the source of my snark, is that you're all broken up about one girl but don't seem to care too much about the tens of thousands of girls who are very much the same. In other words, it's your lack of objectivity that troubles me.

There are so many Obama apologists on the board and he is responsible for so many real issues that it's a little hard not to react when people ignore them. Especially since these issues HAVE NOT ENDED. - SIGNY

And bullshit. I expressly, DIRECTLY wrote to you on this board about that very thing, and even f*cking agreeing with you.

You did? Where? Either I didn't read your post or I forgot.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Saturday, March 25, 2017 6:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:

I think a huge reason that the MSM doesn't discuss drones much is it doesn't want to scare us out of using them. Once it becomes a daily occurrence for most of us to see them because the civilians are using them, it probably won't be that hard for the Government to start passing laws and flying their own in the name of "public safety".

How long thereafter do they start equipping those surveillance drones with weapons in the name of public safety?

I do have a drone, but yes, I think that they don't want to oppose the idea, or the agenda. It's the same with Yemen in general as a topic. The media is as married to the saudis as it is to israel, and they don't want to oppose the saudi intervention even if they can use it to get at trump, a lot more effectively than the tax form nonsense.

The US is continuing to press ever onward towards global police state, and i think the only backlash that would work would be one that profits cooperation and states rights. state govts and corporations each spend around 4 trillion, similar to the fed. govt. together they outweigh it. of course some state govts want to drop their police forces just as bad, so only certain states would come out ahead

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Sunday, March 26, 2017 5:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You did? Where? Either I didn't read your post or I forgot it.

That needs to be your new sig-nature. The Rick Perry excuse. "It's not my fault if I forget!"

I'll take it.

It's not my fault if I forget!

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Monday, October 15, 2018 6:17 AM

'A million more' Yemen children face famine?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-45857729/yemen-could-b
e-worst-famine-in-100-years
Yemen could be on the brink of 'worst famine in 100 years' - distressing scenes

A military intervention was launched by Saudi Arabia in 2015, leading a coalition of nine African and Middle East countries, responding to calls by Yemeni President Abdrabbuh Mansur Hadi for military support in response to Houthi takeover in Yemen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian-led_intervention_in_Yemen

Yemen has been in many civil wars. The Yemeni Civil War of (2015 to present) is an ongoing conflict that began in 2015 between two factions: the incumbent Yemeni government led by Hadi and the Houthi militia where each one of them claims to constitute the Yemeni government, along with their supporters and allies. Houthi forces controlling the capital Sana'a and allied with forces loyal to the former president Ali Abdullah Saleh have clashed with forces loyal to the government of Abdrabbuh Mansur Hadi, based in Aden. Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant have also carried out attacks, with AQAP controlling swathes of territory in the hinterlands, and along stretches of the coast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_Civil_War_(2015-present)

On 21 March 2015, after taking over Sana'a and the Yemeni government, the Houthi-led Supreme Revolutionary Committee declared a general mobilization to overthrow Hadi and further their control by driving into southern provinces. The Houthi offensive, allied with military forces loyal to Saleh, began on the next day with fighting in Lahij Governorate. By 25 March, Lahij fell to the Houthis and they reached the outskirts of Aden, the seat of power for Hadi's government; Hadi fled the country the same day.Concurrently, a coalition led by Saudi Arabia launched military operations by using airstrikes to restore the former Yemeni government and the United States provided intelligence and logistical support for the campaign. According to the UN and other sources, from March 2015 to December 2017, 8,670–13,600 people have been killed in Yemen, including more than 5,200 civilians, as well as estimates of more than 50,000 dead as a result of a ongoing famine due to the war.

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Monday, October 15, 2018 8:04 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

I miss Dreamtrove. :(

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, October 15, 2018 9:31 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I miss Dreamtrove. :( - SIX

Me too. But I'm glad YOU'RE here, SIX!

What I find so very odd is that there is apparently NOW a campaign to make Saudi Arabia pay for the death of one Saudi journalist ... it was a brutal death, they say, but nothing worse than what we did in our black sites ... but I digress ....

Anyway, a campaign to make the Saudis pay for the death of one Saudi journalist in a Saudi consulate in Turkey, and yet 13 MILLION Yemenis face starvation thanks to a Saudi air campaign which has been backed by .... guess who?

I mean, WTF?? Have people gone completely bonkers? Lost all sense of proportionality? No longer plugged into the real world? Can't figure out what's more meaningful or more important?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, November 9, 2021 4:39 AM

Yemen’s long civil war is forcing parents to choose which children to save from starvation

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/yemen-war-childre
n-hunger-famine-b1949779.html

Abandoning Yemen to War Criminals

https://countercurrents.org/2021/10/abandoning-yemen-to-war-criminals/

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Thursday, November 25, 2021 6:46 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Ethiopia: The West’s Diplomats Meet in Secret to Decide How to Help the TPLF
Jeff Pearce

12 hours ago·7 min read

The West’s Horn of Africa experts have been meeting with a TPLF leader and TPLF/OLF supporters in secret, even as its governments claim to be impartial — TPLF’s Berhane Gebre-Christos speaks as TPLF member, proposed head of “transitional government” (limo/Uber drivers) and Washington-based Ethio-American diaspora.

Donald Yamamoto, recently the U.S. Ambassador to Somalia who just retired this year, to TPLF official Berhane Gebre-Christos:

“Abiy is not listening… Obasanjo has not been extraordinary helpful or very active, and so are there any other opportunities that you see?”

Vicki Huddleston, former U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for African Affairs and US Assistant Secretary of State for Africa to Berhane Gebre-Christos:

“I couldn’t agree more that you know, Abiy should step down, there should be an all-inclusive transition government.”

Former ambassadors and current diplomats for the United States, Britain and EU had a Zoom meeting this past Sunday with an official for the TPLF in what amounts to a green light from the West for the terrorist group’s attempts to overthrow the democratically elected Ethiopian government. And there’s evidence to prove it: a phone-cam video of the two-hour meeting.

“I hope that you’ll have military success fairly soon, because it seems as if the situation is only becoming more drastic,” said Vicki Huddleston, who was Chargé d’Affairs ad interim in Ethiopia during years the TPLF were in power.

France’s retired diplomat and writer Stéphane Gompertz openly speculated on the potential for Abiy to be forced from power. “Even if Abiy sticks to his guns, which unfortunately he seems to be doing, you either hope that people around him either in government or in the military realize that this is going nowhere and might force him to, well, accept the cessation of hostilities or force him to step down?”

The Western powers — Britain, the EU and especially the United States — have been posturing for months that they have not taken sides in the conflict and are pushing negotiations only in the interests of peace. But the Zoom talk rips away the façade, revealing a chummy circle of foreign policy elite, both retired and still active who mostly know each other and are in sympathy with TPLF objectives. They include Donald Yamamoto, one of the U.S. government’s most senior Africa experts who just retired this year as the American ambassador to Somalia, and Spain’s diplomat Carmen de la Peña.

Former EU ambassador to Ethiopia Tim Clarke admitted that all of the attendants “maintain contacts with our former employees. Just the other day I was talking to the existing EU ambassador to Ethiopia.”

Others who attended included former British ambassador Robert Dewar and one of Finland’s top former ambassadors, Kirsti Aarnio. It’s unclear how many other Western diplomats were online, or for that matter, how many of these secret consultations they have had with the TPLF while feigning neutrality to the world.

A phone cam video of the Zoom meeting was taken by a participant, and the video reveals a lot. Donald Yamamoto displayed stunning ignorance of the situation on the ground when he said, “With troops now right outside of Addis — and as you know, the evacuations have begun — that’s a very alarming situation…” Only TPLF soldiers are not right outside of Addis but at least more than 200 kilometres away.

The Zoom meeting was held under the auspices of the newish Peace and Development Center International, but the source described it as a thinly-veiled front, calling it “TPLF and OLF-run masquerading as NGO.”

The who’s who of Western diplomacy listened to former Ethiopian Foreign Affairs Minister Berhane Gebre-Christos, now a stalwart TPLF official, give a meandering talk in which he claimed without evidence that Abiy Ahmed started planning the invasion of Tigray from when he took office as prime minister in 2018. “He started preparing himself to invade Tigray since the first day.”

Berhane, you might remember, was the lead spokesman for the coalition of separatist groups that joined together and introduced themselves at a Washington news conference almost three weeks ago. “There is no limit for us,” Berhane told reporters then. “Definitely we will have a change in Ethiopia before Ethiopia implodes.”

His fellow leaders were noticeably less articulate, with one mumbling that the coalition would form a new regime in Ethiopia by “force or negotiation, whatever they wish.” Even as these representatives made their debut, ethnic organizations back home let it be known that they had never heard of these men. But others had… It soon turned out that one had worked recently as a limo driver in Toronto while another had apparently been a limo driver in Calgary. The “dream team” — who also apparently needed to have new suits bought for their news conference — quickly became a laughingstock on social media, with Ethiopians at home and in the diaspora dismissing these new leaders as Uber drivers.

During the Sunday Zoom conference, Berhane claimed that Abiy’s government refused to negotiate “because they have committed so, so, so much heinous crimes” and negotiations could lead to government accountability. As well, he insisted that Ethiopia had “no defence capability today — there is no defence force, there are militias.”

This, of course, is not at all true as the Ethiopian army still exists with an intact command structure and has, in fact, had scores of new recruits rush to join for the anti-TPLF effort.

Tim Clarke later gushed, “It’s a huge honor and privilege to see you Ambassador Berhane, you haven’t changed at all. I’m really impressed at how you’ve kept your youthful appearance and are articulate and as convincing as ever, I have to say.”

Stéphane Gompertz also posited the idea of an amnesty or pardon “in order to — precisely to — encourage the other side [the Ethiopian government] to give up this useless fight.”

The stunning presumption here is that only the Ethiopian side is guilty of war crimes while survivors of the Mai Kadra Massacre say differently, as well as children who say they were used by the TPLF as human shields, as well as the growing list of witnesses to horrors perpetrated by the TPLF while they occupied Lalibela.

Yet the veteran diplomats who took part in Sunday’s closed Zoom conference complimented Berhane on his presentation and seemed to buy into his vision that the Abiy government would soon lose, with the TPLF’s victory assured.

“Abiy is not listening, he’s not listening at all right now,” commented Donald Yamamoto on the issue of negotiation. “And how are you going to reach him? A person who’s really in a corner. And [African Union envoy Olusegun] Obasanjo has not been extraordinary helpful or very active, and so are there any other opportunities that you see?”

It’s not clear at all who Yamamoto expects the TPLF to negotiate with if not the prime minister of Ethiopia and his cabinet, who received a clear mandate in the democratic elections held earlier this year in which approximately 80% of the eligible population voted.

Berhane claimed in his presentation that the TPLF’s coalition partners had agreed on a “transitional arrangement” without offering any specifics — only that there would be a need for a “provisional administration” to fill a security vacuum. It “would serve a very short period of time” and then through an all-inclusive political dialogue there would be a “transitional arrangement.” He also insisted grandly that political parties were already being consulted. “There will be no exclusion. Definitely the exclusion will be with PP, Prosperity Party… If they are defeated militarily, then PP will have no place.”

The diplomats’ reactions are hard to fathom since Berhane demonstrated yet again the contradictory TPLF positions that a powerful and sinister Ethiopia had put Tigray back into the “Stone Age” and had inflicted genocide, while at the same time as far as Ethiopian generals went, “Most of them are incompetent.”

“I couldn’t agree more that you know, Abiy should step down, there should be an all-inclusive transition government,” said Huddleston who also wondered, “I think — I worry because you know, the Tigrayans, yourself and leaders in Tigray have been very effective in carrying out the conflict [sic] and fighting back, and to me that sort of means that Tigrayans will be charge of a new government. And as competent as you are and the fact that you could probably do an excellent job, still, I think that probably would be a huge mistake.”

In his response, Berhane purred, “I assure you that we’re not interested in controlling Addis and so on.”

Given Yamamoto’s high stature in the State Department, it’s unlikely the TPLF wouldn’t interpret his supportive comments — and those of Huddleston’s — as any less than an American endorsement of a military coup. And here were seasoned diplomats talking on an open Zoom call. What then are U.S. officials saying to the TPLF behind closed doors?

The meeting was moderated by scholar Ephraim Isaac, who was close to Meles Zenawi, negotiated with the Derg, and was instrumental in helping to bring the TPLF to power. As the meeting ended, he told the diplomats, “Keep thinking of how we can get an international coalition to help us.”

The full video can be viewed here.

. https://jeffpearce.medium.com/ethiopia-the-wests-diplomats-meet-in-sec
ret-to-decide-how-to-help-the-tplf-cb87f2d30777

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Friday, November 26, 2021 6:01 AM

'It’s time for Sanders to stand up for Yemen'
https://vtdigger.org/letters_to_editor/its-time-for-sanders-to-stand-u
p-for-yemen/

'UN Condemns Seizure of Closed US Embassy in Yemen by Rebels'
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2021-11-18/un-condemns-seizure
-of-closed-us-embassy-in-yemen-by-rebels

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Sunday, March 27, 2022 12:32 PM

Saudi airstrikes hit Yemen's Houthis after Jiddah attack

https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-religion-iran-saudi-arabia-yeme
n-6ca450805c1144fe15f32535801133de

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Friday, January 12, 2024 3:11 PM

There was also a hostage crisis embassy staff thread

Politics latest: RAF took part in air raids on Yemen against Houthi rebels along with US, says Rishi Sunak

https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-post-office-investigator-on
e-of-worst-in-history-wrongly-jailed-victim-didnt-let-her-children-visit-12593360

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Saturday, January 13, 2024 6:14 AM

Biden affirms willingness to continue airstrikes in Yemen if Houthis continue attacks on shipping

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/biden-affirms-willingness-continue-airstrike
s-225946795.html

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Sunday, January 14, 2024 6:49 AM

Joe Biden says US has delivered ‘private message’ to Iran after Yemen raids

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1855473/joe-biden-yemen-raids-hou
this-iran

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Thursday, May 23, 2024 10:08 AM

sea routes in danger and ships destroyed

now Biden admits airstrikes on Yemen are not deterring Houthi militants / terrorists

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Thursday, June 20, 2024 1:54 PM

weapons are moving from Russia to Iran and then from Iran to Yemen

https://en.protothema.gr/2024/06/20/the-moment-the-houthis-attack-the-
greek-owned-ship-tutor-in-the-red-sea-video/

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Saturday, July 20, 2024 4:17 AM

Yemen's Houthi rebels claim drone strike on Tel Aviv that leaves one dead

https://www.euronews.com/2024/07/19/yemens-houthi-rebels-claim-drone-s
trike-on-tel-aviv-that-leaves-one-dead

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Saturday, August 24, 2024 6:55 PM

Fireball erupts from oil tanker after Houthi strike

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/08/24/oil-tanker-hit-houth
i-strike/

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Sunday, September 29, 2024 3:21 PM

John Kirby: Israeli Strike on Hezbollah ‘Good for the World’

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2024/09/29/john-kirby-israeli-strike-o
n-hezbollah-good-for-the-world/

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Saturday, October 5, 2024 6:46 AM

US and Britain launch airstrikes by fighter jets and ships on Yemen's Iran-backed Houthi rebels

https://apnews.com/article/houthis-yemen-us-strikes-weapons-752dd1e5dd
6c284a7909878f89c73149

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Tuesday, October 22, 2024 7:43 AM

US long-range B-2 stealth bombers target underground bunkers of Yemen's Houthi rebels

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/16/us-airstrikes-yemen-ho
uthi-rebels-israel-hamas-war/95da0fae-8c36-11ef-84b5-dacd642f5899_story.html

2016, Vox

Saudi vs Iran

The US may be aiding war crimes in Yemen

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Monday, November 4, 2024 5:38 AM