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Whaaaaaa.... Baby troll needs a nappy!

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BWAINS!!!! I WANT BWAINS!!!- G

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Originally posted by SignyM:
I DID discuss the FBI potentially versus the CIA. The "grunts" versus the politicos. YOU may have plugged your ears and chanted Nyah nyah nyah I can't hear you but it WAS discussed.
There is no doubt that WE have been talking about the deep state- by whatever name you care to call it- for years.
The petrodollar reason to invade Iraq and Libya. The pipelinestan reason to destroy Syria.

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Originally posted by GSTRING:
Whaaaaaa.... Baby troll needs a nappy!

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I can't help but notice that you didn't challenge one single fact.
Not one.- SIGNY

Wrong of course. I challenged your deep state BS. You were pro deep state when it was used against Hillary

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Wrong of course. I challenged your deep state BS. You were pro deep state when it was used against Hillary

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Reviewing the OPs, I still don't see a decent explanation of Deep State, as applies to Obama's Soft-Coup.

Recently I finally heard of what it is, so I'll try to find time to look through this thread with my newfound info.

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FISA Court Finds "Serious Fourth Amendment Issue" In Obama's "Widespread" Illegal Searches Of American Citizens

A newly released court order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA) found that the National Security Agency, under former President Obama, routinely violated American privacy protections while scouring through overseas intercepts and failed to disclose the extent of the problems until the final days before Donald Trump was elected president last fall. In describing the violations, the FISA court said the illegal searches conducted by the NSA under Obama were "widespread" and created a "very serious Fourth Amendment issue."

These new discoveries come from a recently unsealed FISA court document dated April 26, 2017 and center around a hearing dated October 26, 2017, just days before the 2016 election, in which the FISA court apparently learned for the first time of "widespread" and illegal spying on American citizens by the NSA under the Obama administration.

"The October 26, 2016 Notice disclosed that an NSA Inspector General (IG) review...indicated that, with greater frequency than previously disclosed to the Court, NSA analysts had used U.S.-person identifiers to query the result of Internet "upstream" collection, even though NSA's section 702 minimization procedures prohibited such queries...this disclosure gave the Court substantial concern."

FISA



The court order goes on to reveal that NSA analysts had been conducting illegal queries targeting American citizens "with much greater frequency than had previously been disclosed to the Court"...an issue which the court described as a "very serious Fourth Amendment issue."

"Since 2011, NSA's minimization procedures have prohibited use of U.S.-person identifiers to query the results of upstream Internet collection under Section 702. The October 26, 2016 Notice informed the Court that NSA analysts had been conducting such queries in violation of that prohibition, with much greater frequency than had previously been disclosed to the Court."



"At the October 26, 2016 hearing, the Court ascribed the government's failure to disclose those IG and OCO reviews at the October 4, 2016 hearing to an institutional 'lack of candor' on NSA's part and emphasized that 'this is a very serious Fourth Amendment issue.'"

FISA



Of course, these discoveries and their timing, coming just before the 2016 election, are even more suspicious in light of the Obama administration's efforts to 'unmask' intelligence on various Trump campaign officials shortly after the election.

As Circa noted, the American Civil Liberties Union said the newly disclosed violations are some of the most serious to ever be documented and strongly call into question the U.S. intelligence community’s ability to police itself and safeguard American’s privacy as guaranteed by the Constitution’s Fourth Amendment protections against unlawful search and seizure.

“I think what this emphasizes is the shocking lack of oversight of these programs,” said Neema Singh Guliani, the ACLU’s legislative counsel in Washington.

“You have these problems going on for years that only come to the attention of the court late in the game and then it takes additional years to change its practices.

“I think it does call into question all those defenses that we kept hearing, that we always have a robust oversight structure and we have culture of adherence to privacy standards,” she added. “And the headline now is they actually haven’t been in compliance for years and the FISA court itself says in its opinion is that the NSA suffers from a culture of a lack of candor.”

Of course, we suspect that none of this will be reported by any of the mainstream media outlets who will undoubtedly overlook these very distburbing facts in their ongoing efforts to track down the latest anonymously-sourced 'bombshell' report about how Trump once sat across from a Russian boy at lunch in the 2nd grade.

The full FISA Court opinion can be read here: https://www.scribd.com/document/349261099/2016-Cert-FISC-Memo-Opin-Ord
er-Apr-2017-4#from_embed

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Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Meh. Obama had a lot stronger foreign ties than Kenya. As did Hillary. Meh to Trump too, but he has the lowest number of favors owed by anyone elected in my lifetime. Russia? Not that worried.

Edit.

So some people in Ukraine, a nation that has a 40% ethnic Russian minority, has some people who are pro-Russia. Color me surprised. Also, is it a reason to panic that a neighboring country has supporters? Would we panic if Canada was pro-American, or even pro-Mexican?

Also, speaking of, we live in a country with a 20% ethnic Latino minority, which has basically always been there ever since we conquered northern Mexico. That population is probably pro-Mexican. Is that a threat to national security? In order for there to be a parallel, the US latino populations slant toward pro-Mexico would have to be a threat to the national security of Russia.

I just don't see it.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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When impeachment is discussed it is with the understanding something egregious has or will occur.

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THUGR you're just a fucking fascist. Most people wait until a crime has been committed BEFORE the trial. Good lord, you even post about "the rule of law" and then dismiss it completely!

I think we should arrest YOU, because I'm sure you'll do something treasonous. You're already posting about it.

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13 Russians indicted.


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It has been clear to me for a while that there IS something called the "deep state". I sometimes imagine that part of the secret lore that Presidents pass on to each other is a warning about this deep state, and the oligarchs who direct it.

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It has been clear to me for a while that there IS something called the "deep state". I sometimes imagine that part of the secret lore that Presidents pass on to each other is a warning about this deep state, and the oligarchs who direct it. - SIGNY

From the above statement, it is your contention that the "Deep State" is controlled by a secret society of oligarchs (a very rich business leader, or leaders, with a great deal of political influence). I assume that these oligarchs run things to benefit them individually, as well as collectively regardless, and in spite of, origin of country. A sort of Illuminati.

Holla, if I'm off point.

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So basically, it doesn't matter what country one is from, "they" have it down on "lock." Am I still warm so far?

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Again, it doesn't matter what any country does because the "deep state" will use their "influence" to advance their agenda. This is what I understand that you're saying. So that also means that Trump is at the mercy of the Deep State and that they are manipulating him as president; and that this has been in place pretty much since Clinton has been in office.

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Please let me know if I am getting this right up to this point.

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Also that Obama's children was threatened by the Deep State so as to keep him in line. Even though you feel he (Obama) exaggerated that threat. So he, and other presidents, have no real power. Only the Deep State matters. So that would mean that none of the US presidents have any control over the Deep State. Is that the gist of it?

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Which brings me to your questions, that I do not understand. I'm going to attempt to unpack your claims, if that's what they are.

What I understand that you are claiming is that the Deep State has it in for Trump, and that the Russia Probe by Mueller and company has been set up by the Deep State? But, to what end?

Further, I'm guessing that you feel that Trump has been targeted by the intelligence community (CIA/NSA), at the behest of the Deep State, because Trump is a strong leader?

I have another question. Isn't Russia, or actually the oligarchs, running things as part of the Deep State? I would think that the Deep State would want chaos and confusion to reign supreme so that their agenda would be advanced to their benefit.
Hence the continued unrest throughout the planet, that would keep the world in their greedy little hands. You know, control of the world's markets and thereby allowing for the manipulation of the people of the world. Money, the control of it, being at the core of their agenda.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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It has been clear to me for a while that there IS something called the "deep state". I sometimes imagine that part of the secret lore that Presidents pass on to each other is a warning about this deep state, and the oligarchs who direct it. - SIGNY

From the above statement, it is your contention that the "Deep State" is controlled by a secret society of oligarchs (a very rich business leader, or leaders, with a great deal of political influence). I assume that these oligarchs run things to benefit them individually, as well as collectively regardless, and in spite of, origin of country. A sort of Illuminati.

Holla, if I'm off point.

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A bit.

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So basically, it doesn't matter what country one is from, "they" have it down on "lock." Am I still warm so far?

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Partway

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Again, it doesn't matter what any country does because the "deep state" will use their "influence" to advance their agenda. This is what I understand that you're saying. So that also means that Trump is at the mercy of the Deep State and that they are manipulating him as president; and that this has been in place pretty much since Clinton has been in office.

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Since at least the assassination of JFK.

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Please let me know if I am getting this right up to this point.

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Keep going.

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Also that Obama's children was threatened by the Deep State so as to keep him in line. Even though you feel he (Obama) exaggerated that threat. So he, and other presidents, have no real power. Only the Deep State matters. So that would mean that none of the US presidents have any control over the Deep State. Is that the gist of it?

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Pretty much, but ...

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Which brings me to your questions, that I do not understand. I'm going to attempt to unpack your claims, if that's what they are.

What I understand that you are claiming is that the Deep State has it in for Trump, and that the Russia Probe by Mueller and company has been set up by the Deep State? But, to what end?

Further, I'm guessing that you feel that Trump has been targeted by the intelligence community (CIA/NSA), at the behest of the Deep State, because Trump is a strong leader?

I have another question. Isn't Russia, or actually the oligarchs, running things as part of the Deep State? I would think that the Deep State would want chaos and confusion to reign supreme so that their agenda would be advanced to their benefit.
Hence the continued unrest throughout the planet, that would keep the world in their greedy little hands. You know, control of the world's markets and thereby allowing for the manipulation of the people of the world. Money, the control of it, being at the core of their agenda.

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Okay, to explain my views on deep-state.

Although there are oligarchs, they're not one big happy uniform family, with consistent goals. After all, they're competing too. Think of a bunch of Mafia dons, and I think you'll get the idea.

Russian oligarchs, who make their money in Russia, don't have the same interests as tech giants, who are heavily invested in "intellectual property". And tech giants have great trouble with Chinese manufacturing SOEs, who disdain copyrights and patents. So expect national/ business model rivalries.

If there are truly international oligarchies, a kind of capo dei capi they would be centered on truly international businesses:

1) International banking. Nearly all nations have Central Banks are tied into the SWIFT, 60 of which (representing 95% of world GDP) belong to the Bank of International Settlements (BIS) in Basel. https://www.bis.org/about/index.htm?m=1%7C1 They participate in the IMF and the World Bank, and all of the G-20 meetings, since instability on some important banks can potentially bring down the entire system. These financial institutions are deeply dependent on the USD as the petrodollar and world reserve currency, and on complex financial transactions and debt creation in fiat currencies.


2) Transnational corporations which depend on international trade for survival. All of these have an interest in "Free trade" agreements, and of course they depend on international banking and the free flow of money.

3) Big tech companies, which depend on international enforcement of intellectual property rights.

4) International (western) security functions. Most western security agencies are tied together, as well as weapons systems production and (international) contractors.

Of those, probably the banking system is the real driver, since that's where the money is!

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
The analogy of the competing "mafia families" shed some light on the subject. So, each major player (country, i.e. Russia, Turkey, USA, etc.) has their own "Deep State" - entrenched systems that compete to gain an advantage
regardless of who is the figurehead.

Although in the case of Turkey and Russia, the Deep State answers to those figureheads (clandestinely, of course, so as to keep up appearences). But here's the part where I'm having trouble grasping the heirarchy of the American Deep State. You say that its the CIA/NSA and that they spy on Americans to exact control, but they don't answer to the president, right?

I'm assuming that they are controlled by the 1% and that power moves are being made to benefit them (again, I assume that the Koch brothers being chief among them). I remember seeing something online regarding the depression and how it was used to control the masses, as well as world markets).

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You understand where I'm coming from, otherwise its the survival of the fittest.

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Remember, the IRA is being investigated for funneling money for the Russians.
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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Remember, the IRA is being investigated for funneling money for the Russians.

Yanno, I really think we should, at some point, get back to basics. What are our interests? Which ones are important? Where are they being violated? How best to defend them?

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I think I'll set my own agenda here. What are our interests. Mueller is addressing that now. Breaking the back of Russia's American influences. Dismantling them so to speak. Putting them in jail and sending a message to all who would tread on America in the future, don't.

Then pinning anyone involved from Russia in Russia. If they leave we will have them picked up, extradited and brought here for trial. Sanctions that breaks Russia financially. That's a start.


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Breaking the back of Russia's American influences. Dismantling them so to speak. Putting them in jail and sending a message to all who would tread on America in the future, don't.

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Then pinning anyone involved from Russia in Russia. If they leave we will have them picked up, extradited and brought here for trial. Sanctions that breaks Russia financially. That's a start.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Yanno, I really think we should, at some point, get back to basics. What are our interests? Which ones are important? Where are they being violated? How best to defend them?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I have some other ideas:

1) Improve our cybersecurity and our voting procedures. Everybody knows HOW, they just don't want to spend the money to do it.

2) Teach people to be better media-watchers. That doesn't mean "tell people to believe everything the government tells them via the MSM" but apply skepticism and logic, and understand that EVERYBODY has a POV, NOBODY is going to report "just the facts".

3) Make sure that our offensive cyberwarfare capabilities are up to snuff. The reason why the Russians didn't "do" anything to whatever databases they might have accessed ... like manipulate voter rolls, for example ... is because they know we could do the same to them. We need to be able to continue to do that; it's how the balance of power is maintained.

4) Ok, sure ... issue arrest warrants or whatever it is that is done internationally to target the individuals involved. Altho personally, I think the indicted individuals and organizations would be well-advised to send their lawyers to the USA and have them demand to see the evidence.

5) We could try some sort of detente: We don't mess with your elections and you don't mess with ours. But then, our deep state wouldn't want to make that deal because they like to mess with everybody's elections .... even ours!

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Postulate that America’s purpose is getting rich.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Postulate that America’s purpose is getting rich.

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Postulate that Americans are swamped with ads. day after day, whose sole purpose is to convince them that individual consumerism and personal happiness are the greatest goals in life. Family, country, responsibility, hard work ... even uncertainty and worry ... are nowhere to be found, and are foreign to real life!

Postulate that Americans are sold stories of individual success, which happens only if you "want it hard enough"; that "hypomania" is the preferred psychological state which keeps Americans trying and trying .... and trying and trying ... even in the face of overwhelming odds and unrealistic expectations.

Postulate that Hollywood, the news media, and television entertainment are all about wealthy powerful people.

*****

Postulate that Americans are stuck in a permanent "brainwash" cycle that keeps them spinning endlessly so that they NEVER contemplate what their real interests are, and we have a winner!!!

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Now you are talking mental health issues and lack of self-control. I'd say that the average American is too stupid to shut-off their smart phone and TV. They are too stupid to stop eating, too. Check the stats on over-weight.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Now you are talking mental health issues and lack of self-control. I'd say that the average American is too stupid to shut-off their smart phone and TV. They are too stupid to stop eating, too. Check the stats on over-weight.

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What you're talking about is that the average American only dimly senses that they are being preyed on by every corporation in every aspect of their lives, from dopamine-squirting eyeball-grabbing FB algorithms to the payday lender on the street corner.

I'll bet it's easy for you, in your life of luxury, to disdain people who are being pulled apart by stress and trauma. I'll bet it makes you feel superior to peel off a check once in a while to the poor stupid people who can't manage their lives like YOU can.

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Trump is an exemplary American for everyone in the world to study what makes America as it is.

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Hello, does everyone out there realize they spend their time posting opinions on the internet; here, and with some elsewhere as well. At times I've realized I'd been spending a ton of time responding to others posts and have backed off a bit.

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But I have to say. It's getting old watching some here judge the rest of society as failures. Good people are constantly being reduced to a generalization. Usually not a very flattering one. And two often based solely on a job description. It's shameful, and shows a lack of self-discipline and introspection.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Trump is an exemplary American for everyone in the world to study what makes America as it is.

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YOU really hate Americans, don't you, SECOND?

"Trump" is hardly average, and certainly not exemplary.

I hope you realize that you just wiped your feet on nearly every poster here. People who work harder than you, people who take their responsibilities more seriously, people who are worth more than you, in personal terms.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
Hello, does everyone out there realize they spend their time posting opinions on the internet; here, and with some elsewhere as well. At times I've realized I'd been spending a ton of time responding to others posts and have backed off a bit. Some here, have posted none stop year after year for a decade. Not really a glowing endorsement that you, or I, function any better than anyone else.

As the Mueller investigation goes dark again, I will back off. I've been pretty active as of late due to all the revelations uncovered by his investigation, and enjoyed watching what I have been posting being validated.

But I have to say. It's getting old watching some here judge the rest of society as failures. Good people are constantly being reduced to a generalization. Usually not a very flattering one. And two often based solely on a job description. It's shameful, and shows a lack of self-discipline and introspection.





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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND: WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICANS SO MUCH?

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I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. During Armageddon, the wicked will be destroyed.- SECOND

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND: WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICANS SO MUCH?

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I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. During Armageddon, the wicked will be destroyed.

A paragraph from www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/battle-of-armageddon/
What Is the Battle of Armageddon? The battle of Armageddon refers to the final war between human governments and God. These governments and their supporters oppose God even now by refusing to submit to his rulership. (Psalm 2:2) The battle of Armageddon will bring human rulership to an end.—Daniel 2:44.

Signym, you and Trump are wicked. I'm sure about Trump. He provides more proof daily. Your vote for him and your continuing defense of him is proof enough for me, but maybe not enough for God.

Jehovah's Witnesses don't vote. But I do.
Jehovah's Witnesses don't pass judgment on people. But I do.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND: WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICANS SO MUCH?

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I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. During Armageddon, the wicked will be destroyed.

A paragraph from www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/battle-of-armageddon/
What Is the Battle of Armageddon? The battle of Armageddon refers to the final war between human governments and God. These governments and their supporters oppose God even now by refusing to submit to his rulership. (Psalm 2:2) The battle of Armageddon will bring human rulership to an end.—Daniel 2:44.

Signym, you and Trump are wicked. I'm sure about Trump. He provides more proof daily. Your vote for him and your continuing defense of him is proof enough for me, but maybe not enough for God.

Jehovah's Witnesses don't vote. But I do.
Jehovah's Witnesses don't pass judgment on people. But I do.

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This post is so silly I don't even know where to begin...

So I won't.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It must be nice, having so much money that you can afford to pay attention only to yourself.

I don't know if you're fat, I don't know if you're drunk, but you sure are stupid, SECOND. AND an asshole. That much is evident!

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
What's your point about Furst?

I haven't had a drink for 15 months next week and I'm regularly weighing under 160 lbs right now and I haven't worked out at all. That was just from not drinking and getting a job where I'm active.

I've fixed a lot of relationships and have a good support group. I hardly have any real stress in my life. I've taken up projects that are very fulfilling to me and so I hardly even play any games or watch any TV or movies in my free time.

None of that was due to any president or any politician.

You seem pretty miserable everyday man. Maybe you should start taking care of your own home before worrying about all the shit in the world you are powerless to do anything about. You'd probably be happier.

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Do you remember that this is about the Deep State and the Main Stream Media bringing down Trump? Except people believing that are Trump Supporters and Defenders, while actual facts don't back that delusion in the minds of fat, drunk, and/or stupid Republicans.

Republicans have got a real mental weakness toward shifting blame for their personal failures and lousy judgment of people. Remember, 6ixStringJack, you are the genius that voted for Trump. All those stories about him that were true before election? They are still true. And if you can't figure out Mister Obviously Crooked Trump and make accurate predictions about him, how the hell can you understand and make useful predictions about ordinary, decent people who can either help or hurt you in Indiana? You've got more information about Trump then anybody but your own family, and you still are not condemning him to Hell. You are not paying attention.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
SGG, I posted this for you. I have followed your conversation about deep state a bit. Watch this, it explains what's going on right now in this country in a way that makes sense. I'm sure you'll agree when you watch it. If not, that's ok.

It starts off about guns and goes into the politics of today. No deep state in the direction your debaters are pointing. It's a bit long but worth the view. Check it out buddy.
T

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, the reason why I find SECOND so funny is because of the people that I personally know who voted for Trump:

******
My hubby, a multi-talented researcher working at a major university
and his co-worker ...

An American-born son of Mexican immigrants; a colleague of my husband's who is a multi-talented technical support guy, professional musician and occasional triathlete

His coworker's brother, a hardworking HVAC guy, his coworker's older sister (teacher) and younger sister (housewife)

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