REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Draining The Swamp

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Saturday, August 12, 2023 08:45
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Friday, November 3, 2017 8:08 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Now you're just a bore. It's your actions that count.
Oh, you mean excluding my ACTIONS here in 2002? 2003? 2004? 2005? No explanation for those?

That's your problem .... you're way too selective in the information that you absorb. You ignore everything that argues against your POV, even if it's irrefutable. Consequently, you'll never learn. Like I said: willfully ignorant.



Oh I don't know. Perhaps some of what I post below had something to do with your change in attitude and led to your long anti American rant here. Your rhetoric does match Putin's ( exactly ) and has since I've been here. I'm betting it only took the first possible reason I've listed.





The expansion of NATO to Russia’s borders in 2004;

The 2006 Russian decision to renegotiate terms of the Sakhaklin II energy deals

with U.S. multinational corporations;

Russia’s 2006 registration requirements for Western nongovernmental organizations;

Russia’s 2007 “moratorium” on its compliance with the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty;

Stalemated negotiations over Russian membership in the World Trade Organization;

Russia’s weakening of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) election-monitoring process;

Vladimir Putin’s 2007 Munich speech declaring a second “Cold War” with the United States;

A deteriorating personal relationship between U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov3

U.S. support for Kosovo’s 2008 unilateral declaration of independence;

Stalemated negotiations over the successor to the START II treaty, which was

scheduled to expire in December 2009; and

The 2008 U.S. decision to place interceptor missiles in the Czech Republic and
Poland.




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Friday, November 3, 2017 10:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Oh I don't know. Perhaps some of what I post below had something to do with your change in attitude and led to your long anti American rant here. Your rhetoric does match Putin's ( exactly ) and has since I've been here. I'm betting it only took the first possible reason I've listed.
Maybe you should go back and actually READ some of my posts from 2002 before you decide whether or not my attitude has actually "changed". Because, really HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?

Oh, that's right- you don't.

In fact, you don't know much of anything about anything, and especially not about me.

But that's never stopped you before, has it?



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Saturday, November 4, 2017 3:32 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
And STILL no evidence.

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

Looks like there went another forum page of No Evidence.

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Saturday, November 4, 2017 3:46 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Mental marshmallows!? Where'd you get that.- DULL
Well, that's what SECOND has been saying, in essence, even if not using that phrase.

Just go check out his posts. He says it, over and over: Americans are stupid. And you're American, right?

I just decided to stop defending "Americans" from SECOND's amply-displayed disgust!

Trump's approval rating hovers around 35%. That doesn't mean 35% are stupid; it could be less. But a nation really will have problems that last far beyond Trump's lifetime when that many people approve of him.

So, Trump's Approval rating is higher than Bush43 as he completed his maximum Constitutionally allowable years of service as POTUS. And still higher than Hilliary's?
What's your point? You had an unfathomably bad candidate?

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Saturday, November 4, 2017 10:28 AM

THGRRI


Trump predicting he was going to drain the swamp should have been placed in the predications thread. Even though he was unaware at the time he was predicting his own demise.






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Monday, November 6, 2017 3:05 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Allow me to reclaim my thread topic: Draining the Swamp and creating a New Fucking Swamp.

It doesn't surprise me that we have a new charter member, or better said, the discovery of another Trumpster, fat rich bastard looking to control the world through Russian connections:

Wilbur Ross and the Stolen "Paradise Papers" from Appleby in Bermuda, as gathered by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, that shows hundreds of private investors, including Ross, with hidden funds overseas.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/%e2%80%98paradise-papers%e2%80%99
-us-commerce-secretary-wilbur-ross-hid-russian-interest/vi-AAutmd2


Ross testified that he had divested himself of all foreign companies that could compromise his position as Commerce Secretary before the House Judiciary Committee.
Of course, he wasn't totally forthcoming. In other words, he lied.


SGG

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Monday, November 6, 2017 9:39 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


This is how The Swamp works.

Paul Ryan’s spokesperson @AshLeeStrong tweeted:

I don't envy the partisans tasked with messaging against giving middle income families (family of four making $59K) $1,182 back.
12:24 PM - Nov 2, 2017

Unfortunately for the American middle class, Ryan is lying. (It is not Ryan alone. Trump tells the same lie.) The hypothetical family his top spokesperson AshLee Strong described would get a tax cut of almost $1,200 — for one year. It gets smaller in year two, smaller still in year three, smaller still in year four, and smaller still in year five. It nearly vanishes in the sixth year of the Ryan tax plan, and in years seven, eight, nine, and 10 the family would be paying higher taxes than under current law. That tax hike is not only permanent, it actually grows over time because of a change to the inflation indexing of tax brackets.

On average, over the entire 10-year scoring window, the family would get a total tax cut of $3,550. Yet over the same time period, the national debt would grow by $4,644 per person — or about $18,500 for a family of four.

There’s nothing wrong with running a budget deficit if you’re accomplishing something worthwhile. But to go $18,500 in debt in order to secure a $3,550 tax cut is preposterous.

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/6/16606812/republican-tax-plan
-corporate-cut


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, November 6, 2017 1:14 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Allow me to reclaim my thread topic: Draining the Swamp and creating a New Fucking Swamp.

It doesn't surprise me that we have a new charter member, or better said, the discovery of another Trumpster, fat rich bastard looking to control the world through Russian connections:

Wilbur Ross and the Stolen "Paradise Papers" from Appleby in Bermuda, as gathered by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, that shows hundreds of private investors, including Ross, with hidden funds overseas.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/%e2%80%98paradise-papers%e2%80%99
-us-commerce-secretary-wilbur-ross-hid-russian-interest/vi-AAutmd2


Ross testified that he had divested himself of all foreign companies that could compromise his position as Commerce Secretary before the House Judiciary Committee.
Of course, he wasn't totally forthcoming. In other words, he lied.


SGG



It's just more evidence of what we suspected SGG. The Russians are here.






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Monday, November 6, 2017 4:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Paradise Papers are leaked documents from one of those international "wealth management" law firms that donated so heavily to Hillary. Firms very much like Mossack Fonseca (Panama Papers) detailing how the wealthy elite hide their wealth and evade taxes.

Quote:

Sunday's revelations form only a small part of a week of disclosures that will expose the tax and financial affairs of some of the hundreds of people and companies named in the data, some with strong UK connections.

Many of the stories focus on how politicians, multinationals, celebrities and high-net-worth individuals use complex structures of trusts, foundations and shell companies to protect their cash from tax officials or hide their dealings behind a veil of secrecy.

The BBC, from which this was quoted, is naturally more focused on wealth British individuals and especially whether The Queen was involved. (yes but not much $$ was invested abroad, only about $10 million USD.)


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, November 6, 2017 6:49 PM

THGRRI


First, I'm not concerned they donated to Hillarys' campaign. Second, lets see a quote by you regarding that. Not because I care they donated to her campaign, but to see if you made that up. Until I see the quote I am going to assume you did.



Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Paradise Papers are leaked documents from one of those international "wealth management" law firms that donated so heavily to Hillary. Firms very much like Mossack Fonseca (Panama Papers) detailing how the wealthy elite hide their wealth and evade taxes.

Quote:

Sunday's revelations form only a small part of a week of disclosures that will expose the tax and financial affairs of some of the hundreds of people and companies named in the data, some with strong UK connections.

Many of the stories focus on how politicians, multinationals, celebrities and high-net-worth individuals use complex structures of trusts, foundations and shell companies to protect their cash from tax officials or hide their dealings behind a veil of secrecy.

The BBC, from which this was quoted, is naturally more focused on wealth British individuals and especially whether The Queen was involved. (yes but not much $$ was invested abroad, only about $10 million USD.)


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake






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Tuesday, November 7, 2017 1:47 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Yes, that's true, the Queen did invest overseas and had the Appleby Group "hide" those investments, but that's just another misdirect, although true I was not referring my comment to the Queen's holdings, but rather to Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross's holdings which are linked to Putin's son-in-law's ownership in a shipping company.

One which Ross failed to disclose to the Senate Committee reviewing his confirmation as Commerce Secretary. He was supposed to dissolve his holdings in foreign companies, especially since he sought confirmation to the post, and one that he must do in order to comply with federal law. Just as the president was supposed to do. That is a problem because he could influence trade, thereby influencing markets and those who would make money, etc. and so on.

(actually the word is divest, not dissolve).


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Paradise Papers are leaked documents from one of those international "wealth management" law firms that donated so heavily to Hillary. Firms very much like Mossack Fonseca (Panama Papers) detailing how the wealthy elite hide their wealth and evade taxes.

Quote:

Sunday's revelations form only a small part of a week of disclosures that will expose the tax and financial affairs of some of the hundreds of people and companies named in the data, some with strong UK connections.

Many of the stories focus on how politicians, multinationals, celebrities and high-net-worth individuals use complex structures of trusts, foundations and shell companies to protect their cash from tax officials or hide their dealings behind a veil of secrecy.

The BBC, from which this was quoted, is naturally more focused on wealth British individuals and especially whether The Queen was involved. (yes but not much $$ was invested abroad, only about $10 million USD.)


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Tuesday, November 7, 2017 1:59 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Funny thing is that we keep hearing how there's nothing there. Reminds me of a line in a Shakespeare play, Hamlet, it goes something like this:

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

You know something is up when someone offers up an excuse way too much; it reeks of cover up and insincerity. There are a few people that I've met that exhibit those exact qualities, so on point that I just nod my head, but deep down in my gut - I know, it's all bullshit. And for this Russia denial and Fake News excuse from the White House.......

"Methinks..."


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Allow me to reclaim my thread topic: Draining the Swamp and creating a New Fucking Swamp.

It doesn't surprise me that we have a new charter member, or better said, the discovery of another Trumpster, fat rich bastard looking to control the world through Russian connections:

Wilbur Ross and the Stolen "Paradise Papers" from Appleby in Bermuda, as gathered by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, that shows hundreds of private investors, including Ross, with hidden funds overseas.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/%e2%80%98paradise-papers%e2%80%99
-us-commerce-secretary-wilbur-ross-hid-russian-interest/vi-AAutmd2


Ross testified that he had divested himself of all foreign companies that could compromise his position as Commerce Secretary before the House Judiciary Committee.
Of course, he wasn't totally forthcoming. In other words, he lied.


SGG



It's just more evidence of what we suspected SGG. The Russians are here.







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Tuesday, November 7, 2017 3:48 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
So, let me get this straight.....you mean to say that Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Oh goody gum drops! Golly gee Batman, they are good guys after all.

I'm sorry I ever doubted Comrade Putin.- DULL

Do you really... REALLY ... think this is the problem we have with Russia - that they're jealous of our freedoms?

That's a serious question, by the way.

Are you asking if the average workaday Russian is envious of our freedoms, liberty - or if Putin wishes his subjects had our freedoms, Liberty?

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Tuesday, November 7, 2017 2:05 PM

THGRRI


Paradise Papers. Not all the transactions are illegal. Many are money laundering but many are not. It's a great tool for prosecutors if they are looking into someone.






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Tuesday, November 7, 2017 2:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Funny thing is that we keep hearing how there's nothing there. Reminds me of a line in a Shakespeare play, Hamlet, it goes something like this:

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

You know something is up when someone offers up an excuse way too much; it reeks of cover up and insincerity. There are a few people that I've met that exhibit those exact qualities, so on point that I just nod my head, but deep down in my gut - I know, it's all bullshit. And for this Russia denial and Fake News excuse from the White House.......

"Methinks..."



It could all be true.

If that's the case, it's doubly a shame the way the MSM has been going about it's business since Trump was elected.

At the very least, most americans are just desensitized to it all by now. That tends to happen when you claim the sky is falling every single day.

Didn't these overpaid shills have parents that read Chicken Little or The Boy Who Cried Wolf to them when they were kids?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 7, 2017 2:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

So, let me get this straight.....you mean to say that Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Oh goody gum drops! Golly gee Batman, they are good guys after all. I'm sorry I ever doubted Comrade Putin.- DULL

Do you really... REALLY ... think this is the problem we have with Russia - that they're jealous of our freedoms?
That's a serious question, by the way.- SIGNY

Are you asking if the average workaday Russian is envious of a ur freedoms,xliberty - or if Putin wishes his subjects had our freedoms, Liberty? - JSF



I dunno, ask SHINY. He's the one who said ...
Quote:

Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
"Russia" is a broad term. I don't know what SHINY meant, and clarification would sure be helpful!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, November 7, 2017 3:57 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
And STILL no evidence.



Moreover, despite the president’s disinformation campaign — aided by Fox News, which has become largely indistinguishable from state TV (even removing an impeachment ad that upset its viewers) — the public has become increasingly concerned about the president’s conduct. “More Americans than ever before express concern about contacts between suspected Russian operatives and Trump’s presidential campaign. Forty-four percent say they are ‘very concerned’ about those reports, up from just 27% saying so in July … Almost six in 10, 59%, say they think Trump himself knew last year that anyone associated with his campaign had contact with suspected Russian operatives, while only 35% think the then-GOP nominee did not know about those contacts.” And the argument that this is all a hoax or witch hunt has fallen on deaf ears. (“About two-thirds (64%) now say the investigation into Russian efforts to influence the US presidential election in 2016 is a serious matter that should be fully investigated, while just 32% see it as an effort to discredit Trump’s presidency. That figure is down from 38% saying so in August.”) In the public’s eye, it is not special counsel Robert S. Mueller III who is mishandling matters, but Trump. “Just 34% approve of the way Trump is handling that investigation, 54% disapprove, though that represents an improvement since August, when 59% disapproved.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/11/07/the-russ
ia-issue-does-matter-to-voters/?utm_term=.e3ed998e050f







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Tuesday, November 7, 2017 6:05 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Moreover, despite the president’s disinformation campaign — aided by Fox News, which has become largely indistinguishable from state TV (even removing an impeachment ad that upset its viewers) — the public has become increasingly concerned about the president’s conduct. “More Americans than ever before express concern about contacts between suspected Russian operatives and Trump’s presidential campaign. Forty-four percent say they are ‘very concerned’ about those reports, up from just 27% saying so in July … Almost six in 10, 59%, say they think Trump himself knew last year that anyone associated with his campaign had contact with suspected Russian operatives, while only 35% think the then-GOP nominee did not know about those contacts.” And the argument that this is all a hoax or witch hunt has fallen on deaf ears. (“About two-thirds (64%) now say the investigation into Russian efforts to influence the US presidential election in 2016 is a serious matter that should be fully investigated, while just 32% see it as an effort to discredit Trump’s presidency. That figure is down from 38% saying so in August.”) In the public’s eye, it is not special counsel Robert S. Mueller III who is mishandling matters, but Trump. “Just 34% approve of the way Trump is handling that investigation, 54% disapprove, though that represents an improvement since August, when 59% disapproved.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/11/07/the-russ
ia-issue-does-matter-to-voters/?utm_term=.e3ed998e050f










Oh goodie. More polls.

The CNN Poll in question...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/politics/cnn-poll-trump-approval-russia-
concerns/index.html


Quote:

The CNN Poll was conducted by SSRS by telephone November 2 to November 5 among a random national sample of 1,021 adults.


No word at all about what political affiliation these 1,021 out of 250 million or so "random" adults are.

But hey... It's CNN. They've proven that they're above intentional statistical manipulation.

Oh.... wait.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 8, 2017 12:29 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


So who will celebrate on Wednesday the 1 year Anniversary of Trump's selection? Or, perhaps, America's escape from President Hilliary.

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Wednesday, November 8, 2017 12:33 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

So, let me get this straight.....you mean to say that Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Oh goody gum drops! Golly gee Batman, they are good guys after all. I'm sorry I ever doubted Comrade Putin.- DULL

Do you really... REALLY ... think this is the problem we have with Russia - that they're jealous of our freedoms?
That's a serious question, by the way.- SIGNY

Are you asking if the average workaday Russian is envious of a ur freedoms,xliberty - or if Putin wishes his subjects had our freedoms, Liberty? - JSF



I dunno, ask SHINY. He's the one who said ...
Quote:

Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
"Russia" is a broad term. I don't know what SHINY meant, and clarification would sure be helpful!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You posed the "serious question" so you are the sole arbiter of what you meant by your statement. Do you need somebody else to tell you what you mean when you post things?

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Wednesday, November 8, 2017 2:23 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Well, I dunno.....how many times must the president say....."I'm not being investigated."

Did the MSM make him say that?


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Funny thing is that we keep hearing how there's nothing there. Reminds me of a line in a Shakespeare play, Hamlet, it goes something like this:

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

You know something is up when someone offers up an excuse way too much; it reeks of cover up and insincerity. There are a few people that I've met that exhibit those exact qualities, so on point that I just nod my head, but deep down in my gut - I know, it's all bullshit. And for this Russia denial and Fake News excuse from the White House.......

"Methinks..."



It could all be true.

If that's the case, it's doubly a shame the way the MSM has been going about it's business since Trump was elected.

At the very least, most americans are just desensitized to it all by now. That tends to happen when you claim the sky is falling every single day.

Didn't these overpaid shills have parents that read Chicken Little or The Boy Who Cried Wolf to them when they were kids?

Do Right, Be Right. :)


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Wednesday, November 8, 2017 2:28 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"It's just more evidence of what we suspected SGG. The Russians are here. "

logic fail - spectacularly, hilariously, in a noteworthy way

You're like Wishi. Every time you post your pompous, self-important judgments - that are 180 off from reality - you get funnier and funnier.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Wednesday, November 8, 2017 3:05 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


I thought my post was pretty self-explanatory, but I'll humor Sigs:

Far as I'm concerned the good people of Russia and the government are two separate entities. If I remember correctly, blue jeans (an American staple) there are over $200 a pop. But I digress. I don't think it's so much jealously, that's an ugly word; it's more like emulate, look up to even. Fashion is just one area.

But Putin has a deep-seated hatred for things American, mainly because he wants to be No. 1. He wants Russia to be the All-Powerful nation that rules the roost. He wants to be the "Leader of the Free World"; only thing is the world is not so "free" as people might think (poor fools, at least this is how some think).
There's nothing wrong with wanting to be number one, it's how you go about it.
Both countries have "done things" - things that have crushed some folk in order
to shove aside others to place ourselves in the front of the line.

Putin is doing his damnedest to "shove" his way on through to the front of the line. "We" are in his way is all. So I wouldn't use "jealous" per se. Of course, you would Sigs. But maybe a teensy bit, way down deep....yes.

"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" The Joker 1989. He was referring to Batman's gadgets. And the infamous, "This town needs an enema." Referring to Batman getting all his "press" or media attention, instead of him (The JOKER). That's Putin, his ego is as big as the Joker's in the movie. He thought of himself as a super intellect, which he was, but the other guy is getting all the attention.
Putin wants that recognition as the best leader of the world, because he feels he's better than. You don't think that there's a tiny bit of jealousy driving that superego? Well, anything is possible, but you can't rule it out completely either.

Wanting to improve your country is never a bad thing, sure. But stomping on another's dream in the process....well, that's not exactly kosher is it? So basically Putin is ruling with an iron fist, and who among us live free? Really?

Of course, that's just one man's observation.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

So, let me get this straight.....you mean to say that Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Oh goody gum drops! Golly gee Batman, they are good guys after all. I'm sorry I ever doubted Comrade Putin.- DULL

Do you really... REALLY ... think this is the problem we have with Russia - that they're jealous of our freedoms?
That's a serious question, by the way.- SIGNY

Are you asking if the average workaday Russian is envious of a ur freedoms,xliberty - or if Putin wishes his subjects had our freedoms, Liberty? - JSF



I dunno, ask SHINY. He's the one who said ...
Quote:

Russia doesn't have a care in the world and is totally fine with our way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
"Russia" is a broad term. I don't know what SHINY meant, and clarification would sure be helpful!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You posed the "serious question" so you are the sole arbiter of what you meant by your statement. Do you need somebody else to tell you what you mean when you post things?


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Wednesday, November 8, 2017 8:02 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"It's just more evidence of what we suspected SGG. The Russians are here. "

logic fail - spectacularly, hilariously, in a noteworthy way

You're like Wishi. Every time you post your pompous, self-important judgments - that are 180 off from reality - you get funnier and funnier.

While you're squabbling about petty differences in style, my 1 percenters are stealing trillions. Congratulations for distracting the lower 99%! I can't thank you enough for your unpaid service, so I won't thank you at all.

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/11/penn-wharton-republican-tax-pla
n-would-do-almost-nothing-to-boost-gdp
/
The Penn Wharton Business Model has analyzed the Republican Tax plan and reports back that it will have the following effect on GDP:

The 2027 GDP would be .58 percent higher than it would be under current law. That’s a difference of .05 percent per year.

After 2027, thanks to the $5 trillion in extra debt the tax cut generates, the economy would lose even this tiny amount of extra growth and maybe even grow slower than it would under current law. Between 2017 and 2040, the total net effect of the Republican plan is basically zero.

But a bunch of rich people would be a lot richer. Mission Accomplished, 1kiki! Say hello to Putin for me. Putin certainly has the visible trappings of a 1 percenter, Russian branch. http://time.com/money/4641093/vladimir-putin-net-worth/


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, November 8, 2017 9:14 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Well, I dunno.....how many times must the president say....."I'm not being investigated."

Did the MSM make him say that?



In a word, yes.

What should he say or do that would appease you?

I'll list a few things he could say or do that I guaranty would not appease you.

1. Ignore the question whenever it is asked.
2. Say "No Comment" whenever it is asked.
3. Ban certain news outlets who are going to ask the question from events.
4. Completely isolate himself from the media.


This is the problem with a MSM that is so out of control and hyper focused on their hate for Trump and the Republican Party in general. (And also the problem with 24 hour news networks and news on the internet in general)

They never STFU about it.

I've said it before... please investigate. Not just trump and not just Republicans, but the whole collective cesspool. This government needs an enima. Flush em all out.

But do some real Goddamned investigative journalism first and quit with all the bullshit speculation and for fucks sake stop quoting random sources.

Every. Fucking. Story.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 8, 2017 1:58 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"It's just more evidence of what we suspected SGG. The Russians are here. "

logic fail - spectacularly, hilariously, in a noteworthy way

You're like Wishi. Every time you post your pompous, self-important judgments - that are 180 off from reality - you get funnier and funnier.

While you're squabbling about petty differences in style, my 1 percenters are stealing trillions. Congratulations for distracting the lower 99%! I can't thank you enough for your unpaid service, so I won't thank you at all.





At some point in time one would expect kiki and Jack to name two, would stop eliciting your ire. Sadly, it's what trolls live for. Still, I love the way their logic is reduced to ashes by you.






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Wednesday, November 8, 2017 2:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

While you're squabbling about petty differences in style (circle all that apply) political parties, gender, race, age, other my 1 percenters are stealing trillions- SECOND
The one I find who MOST squabbles about irrelevant stuff is you, hon.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, November 8, 2017 2:43 PM

THGRRI


Trump voters disappointed by his presidency threaten the GOP

Anthony Miles figured that Donald Trump, rich as he was, could not be bought off. Now he regrets voting for him.

"He said he was going to drain the swamp," said Miles, 62, a computer programmer who lives in Middletown, Conn. "All he's done is restocked it."
Miles was especially appalled by President Trump's appointment, since withdrawn, of a drug czar who took pharmaceutical donations as a congressman and wrote a law that thwarted federal power to punish companies that fuel opioid abuse.
A year after Trump stunned the world by defeating Hillary Clinton in one of the most consequential elections of modern times, the president is breaking records for unpopularity. Since World War II, no other president has scored Gallup approval ratings as low as Trump's during his first year in office. He bottomed out last week at 33%.

That's largely because of Americans who voted for Trump but disapprove of the way he has conducted himself in office.
Many of them, like Miles, are independents. Some were never Trump fans, but cast ballots for him out of loathing for Clinton. They were essential to his electoral college victory, securing his narrow wins in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.
They will also be crucial to Republicans' fight to keep control of Congress next year — and to Trump's prospects for reelection in 2020.

http://beta.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-election-voters-20171
108-story.html







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Wednesday, November 8, 2017 3:00 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
And STILL no evidence.



media moving very fast now

LAPD Confirms It Is Investigating Hollywood Pedophilia Ring
https://www.therebel.media/lapd_confirms_they_are_investigating_hollyw
ood_pedophilia_ring



Asia Argento?
Ehud Barak referred Weinstein to ex-Mossad agents he hired to quash allegations
https://twitter.com/AsiaArgento/status/928313466766708736

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Wednesday, November 8, 2017 3:13 PM

THGRRI


It's a given that when SIG is very upset, she brings out the worst of the worst of her sockpuppets; JAYNEZTOWN. Excuse me while I do a troll patrol.

SIG






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Wednesday, November 8, 2017 4:26 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Yep...

I'm the one who has problems.




Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 9, 2017 6:04 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Let me see if I can unpack your response:

First off; the president could say something like (since he claims there is no collusion or any wrongdoing on his part or that of his administration) this:

"I'm glad you asked that question. I, for one, have every confidence that Mr. Mueller, after he's done with his investigation will be satisfied that my administration was also a victim of the Russian hacking reported on by the intelligence community. I trust that his thoroughness and dedication will be rewarded greatly and will vindicate my administration of any involvement. I will continue to support the DOJ's excellent choice of Mr. Mueller, a true professional,
as Special Counsel and trust that the media will follow the developments arising from his probe into the above named hacking of our democratic process."

Now that kills a lot of birds with one stone. Plus it will pour water on the smoldering pile of so-called "Fake News." In one fell swoop he not only puts to rest the speculation that he or his administration have anything to do with the so-called Russian hack of our democratic process, because, as he has voiced from day one of this story, he and his administration are innocent of any wrongdoing.

He also, with that statement, backs the American Intelligence community and the Special Prosecutor, while making the MSM think twice about lying in their coverage.
Perhaps even forcing them to cover other stories, thereby leaving President Trump and his totally innocent cabinet alone. Not only that, he would make them out as fools on a fool's errand. In other words, make them look bad for having pursued a,
how do you guys call it?, a "nothing burger."

But nooooooooooooooooo, Trump goes and listens to his son-in-law (who never ever had any kind of experience working in government in any capacity) and fires FBI Director Comey......that started the ball rolling. Did the MSM twist Donny's arm to fire Comey?

The question that I ask has nothing to do with appeasing me...for what? I question Donny's version of the truth because I smell a rat. If he is innocent as he says, and had nothing to do with anything Russian, then why fight the investigation?

If the police accused me of committing a murder and I was innocent; I would go to them and give my statement, alibi, and whatever they wanted to clear my name. Doesn't that make sense?

But if I were guilty, I wouldn't go around calling the cops a bunch of losers and suckers who were trying to frame me for the murder. That would piss them off and make them want to catch me and lock me up even more, now wouldn't it. Does that make sense?

So firing Comey was not smart, it just raised suspicion and gave the FBI and DOJ more of a reason to look into the matter. Enter Mueller, who everyone respects as an honorable man. And you notice that he hasn't gotten into a twitter war, or anything for that matter, with the aforementioned Donny Baby. Funny thing integrity, for some it's just a word.

But my criticism of Trump is not meant as a reason for appeasement, not for me.
He could go and grab anybody's pussy, which I'm sure he's done, that really doesn't matter to me one way or another. I'm tired of hearing about it from all news outlets, including Fox, because it's all bullshit. I don't give a shit about him, but I do care about this country because I live here. If this motherfucker has to be showing his ass, then, as a voter, I have every fucking right to complain, criticize and ask for his head on a platter - that's how democracy works. You vote, you have rights; you don't vote - STFU! Plain and simple.

And since I voted, I'm exercising my right to protest and complain. See, simple. You have that right as well, as long as you voted you can pursue your happiness.
My happiness is to call this motherfucker a pig, SOB, rich fuck who doesn't have a clue. That's what appeases me! See, simple.

Now, as to your list:

1. Ignore the question whenever it is asked.

Good one, he often does this whenever he doesn't want to deal with a question. So you could cross that one off your list. The media asks and he has every right not to answer, and, like I said, I've seen him do this many times. But what if he chooses to answer?

2. Say "No Comment" whenever it is asked.

I've seen him do this too, but mostly he ignores the question.

3. Ban certain news outlets who are going to ask the question from events.

He's done this too. Although it depends on what action he's looking to take. He has to be careful because it may be unconstitutional. For the most part, he just skips answering the question or ignores the reporter. During his campaign, he had one thrown out of a press conference. So there's that.

4. Completely isolate himself from the media.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.......haaaaaa! That's funny. Imagine Trump isolating himself, Mr. Big Ego, Mr. Narcissist. Thanks I needed a laugh.
But really, think about it, POTUS locking himself away from the press. No, really...think of Reagan or Bush, Kennedy or Obama hiding in his room until the press go away. Trump peeks out from behind the Oval office door and says to his secretary: "Psssst! Are they gone?"

The headlines would read: President in hiding, won't come out and 'meet the press'. See what I did there? Meet The Press.

Well, he kinda does that already. He spends most of his days tweeting. Of course, he's POTUS, he can do whatever he wants.

Quote:

This is the problem with a MSM that is so out of control and hyper focused on their hate for Trump and the Republican Party in general. (And also the problem with 24 hour news networks and news on the internet in general)


Come on, hate, really!? Well, I give you that one. But that's the job: to keep an eye on the president, his cabinet, well any politician really. Otherwise we'd be really fucked. They would get away with, you know, murder. Think of all the shit that Hillary could do if the media wasn't there to record her movements. Nixon...there would be no Watergate, which, in turn, there would be no Bridgegate, etc. Even fucking WikiLeaks is a form of media, the press. Where would you get all your right wing news from...oh yeah, you have Rush Limbaugh. Hell, even he's a part of the MSM, no matter how much of a douchebag he is.

The press or MSM, or whatever you want to call them is part of the Fourth Estate.
Not a branch of government, but an integral part of our democracy. They are our, meaning the little guy, watchdogs. All this Fake News crap was started by the dictator/right wing regimes to confuse us and confound any real movements started by the people. Disinformation. You know, "they went that-away!" The old misdirection play.

But, to a certain degree, I agree with you. These guys can't stop talking about anything else. If this fuck takes a shit.......well, they just dissect every angle until they can explain why, how much, when was the last dump....I mean it's sickening. I admit though, it's like passing by a car crash....we all crane our necks to see what happened. I want them to finish with the investigation already.
Come on, let's go. Get him the fuck outta there already. But the rule of law is nothing to fuck with. You could easily ruin someone's life.

The Law takes time, especially in blue collar crime. Trump says he's innocent, but that don't mean shit...and for me, the question remains, if he's innocent, then why did he fire Comey? And If he's innocent, then why does he want to fire Mueller? If he's innocent, why not let Mueller do his job to clear his name and that of his family.

Back in 2012, I was watching Fox News to see how they were covering Obama's re-election. Carl Rove was on the panel and he was talking shit, as usual, and then he began to lie about the results from a particular state (I think it was Ohio) the other more liberal channels had the right poll numbers/election returns and Rove went ballistic, stomping around Fox News HQ and yelling at the poor stats people who told him the numbers were right. I got so upset at him, that I got up and changed the channel.

The next day it was all over the news how Rove went ballistic at the Fox people. But I saved myself the aggravation by changing the channel and not listening to his bullshit. I really try to watch every once in a while, but I can't make it through more than 10 minutes of Fox News. So I suggest, change the channel if it gets too much. Just how you can't convince me that Trump is an innocent angel, or that Fox News is actually "Fair and Balanced" and I can't convince you to watch MSNBC or to hang a poster of Rachel Maddow in your room. At this point we're going to believe what we believe.

Just remember, when Fox and Friends went on and on about Obama this and Obama that, and especially about the whole "birther" bullshit. Actually, anything Obama did, good or bad, they would dance around the newsroom cackling like a bunch of crows.
They all do it. Fuck! change the channel or turn it off.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Well, I dunno.....how many times must the president say....."I'm not being investigated."

Did the MSM make him say that?



In a word, yes.

What should he say or do that would appease you?

I'll list a few things he could say or do that I guaranty would not appease you.

1. Ignore the question whenever it is asked.
2. Say "No Comment" whenever it is asked.
3. Ban certain news outlets who are going to ask the question from events.
4. Completely isolate himself from the media.


This is the problem with a MSM that is so out of control and hyper focused on their hate for Trump and the Republican Party in general. (And also the problem with 24 hour news networks and news on the internet in general)

They never STFU about it.

I've said it before... please investigate. Not just trump and not just Republicans, but the whole collective cesspool. This government needs an enima. Flush em all out.

But do some real Goddamned investigative journalism first and quit with all the bullshit speculation and for fucks sake stop quoting random sources.

Every. Fucking. Story.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


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Thursday, November 9, 2017 10:56 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
They all do it. Fuck! change the channel or turn it off.



We seem to be in agreement on a lot of things.

I'd never try to convince you that Trump was an innocent angel. I'm sure he isn't. None of us are, let alone anybody in power on any level. My issue comes with how the media has come at him relentlessly since day one. You agree on that and even made a joke about if Trump takes a shit that the MSM will dissect it and tell us what he ate last night.

I don't know why Trump would fire Comey. I can't even speculate on it. That's another problem with the media today. That's all they do is speculate. There is no investigative journalism anymore. I'm sure Trump knew how guilty doing so would make him look in the eyes of people who already hated him. (And yes, hate is not used wrong here. It is genuine hate that many people in this country have for our President).

He's a lot of things, but I don't think he's a stupid man. It's possible that he has nothing to worry about in the end and wasn't worried about the public perception of firing Comey. If anything, Comey has shown himself to be pretty incompetent and he wasn't very well respected by people on either side for his constant flip-flopping on issues. If Comey had cleared his name, people who hate Trump wouldn't have believed him. Do you think it will be easy for those same people to do that if Mueller clears his name?

Quote:

But if I were guilty, I wouldn't go around calling the cops a bunch of losers and suckers who were trying to frame me for the murder. That would piss them off and make them want to catch me and lock me up even more, now wouldn't it. Does that make sense?


Well that's just it. I wouldn't do it either. It doesn't make sense.

Unless something I said many months ago is true and that Trump is doing this all to end up catching some high ranking government officials and a large portion of the MSM in a huge GOTCHA moment when it turns out he isn't guilty.

Anyway... enough speculation on my part. I don't want to add to that shit-show.


I think that you think I watch Fox News. I don't. I can't stomach their bullshit anymore than I can MSNBC or CNN. I immediately tune out whenever anybody puts their bias in their "reporting" and this is something that all the cable "news" networks do constantly.

None of them give a shit about the truth. It's all about ratings.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 10, 2017 2:35 PM

THGRRI


Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate panel

Brett J. Talley, President Trump’s nominee to be a federal judge in Alabama, has never tried a case, was unanimously rated “not qualified” by the American Bar Assn.’s judicial rating committee, has practiced law for only three years and, as a blogger last year, displayed a degree of partisanship unusual for a judicial nominee, denouncing “Hillary Rotten Clinton” and pledging support for the National Rifle Assn.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-judge-20171110-story.h
tml


Is this what Trump means by drain the swamp. This judge is clueless about what this country is about and the rule of law.

Bravo SIG, you sure can pickem. Stooge, a person who serves merely to support or assist others. You SIG are a stooge, which is only one of the many other unpleasant things that you are, comrade.





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Friday, November 10, 2017 5:59 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


were your propaganda bosses unhappy with you slacking off, comrade troll ?




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 1:45 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Another brilliant move on the part of the Fake President.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate panel

Brett J. Talley, President Trump’s nominee to be a federal judge in Alabama, has never tried a case, was unanimously rated “not qualified” by the American Bar Assn.’s judicial rating committee, has practiced law for only three years and, as a blogger last year, displayed a degree of partisanship unusual for a judicial nominee, denouncing “Hillary Rotten Clinton” and pledging support for the National Rifle Assn.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-judge-20171110-story.h
tml


Is this what Trump means by drain the swamp. This judge is clueless about what this country is about and the rule of law.

Bravo SIG, you sure can pickem. Stooge, a person who serves merely to support or assist others. You SIG are a stooge, which is only one of the many other unpleasant things that you are, comrade.






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Sunday, November 12, 2017 2:52 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


First off, we do agree on some things. But not about "our" president. No, he's your president, not mine. Not only did I not vote for him, but I do HATE him. I say that openly and freely. This is my decision entirely, no one is making me say that (I say that just in case).

In fact, I hope he dies; that's how much I hate him, that he contracts cancer, shrivels up and dies. In case the FBI, CIA or NSA is reading this: This is my feeling on it, this is NOT a plot.

My president has been, and always will be Kennedy...JFK to be exact. Obama is a close second. TO BE CLEAR. Okay, got that out of the way.

One of the things that I have learned in my travels, is to criticize print journalism, mass media, and broadcast journalism. There is a difference. And you have correctly pointed that out...

Quote:

There is no investigative journalism anymore.


Well, to a degree. You see I dissect it this way: Print journalism does do investigative reporting; broadcast rarely does (too expensive, and sometimes too controversial). Here's how I see it:

Print journalism investigates, and when the story strikes gold (depending on the broadcast news agenda) they present it in a live interview or a panel discussion.
So, in a way, broadcast news does do investigative journalism with print journalism's help. Case in point, Rachel Maddow's follow up on the Flint Michigan water scandal. That started out as a print journalism investigative report; she picked up the ball and ran with it to expose the corrupt governor of Michigan and the state employees who did their damnedest to cover it up (I still say that the governor should have been locked up).

With the exposure given to this case, the Feds got involved, hence the appropriate people going to jail. Same thing with Bridge-Gate. I give Maddow credit, she did praise the newspaper journalist who dug out the Flint Water scandal. Back to the panel discussion, which is what I guess you have a problem with the "speculation,"
this is where the broadcast and print journalism cross paths. For example, Chris Matthews of Hardball, will often call on both print and broadcast journalists to appear on his show, but he also invites political pundits from differing political stripes to comment on the "breaking" news of the day. Sometimes they speculate, but most times they just offer an opinion based on their expertise, experience and political slant. Some even decline to offer any speculation because there isn't enough evidence or they just don't like it.

I actually have my disagreements with Matthew's questions, slants and comments cause he tends to go with whatever is the prevailing frontrunner of the day. But that's another critique for another day. He does usually invite a politico, a journalist, a republican and a democrat. Sometimes he'll invite an independent.
But I have noticed that the entire night will be devoted to Trump. That's the rating part that you mentioned, yeah, unfortunately broadcast journalism has it's
skeevy moments that they promote and allow to permeate the "news" namely - commercials, ads, selling stuff. That's built into their DNA. With the exception of the MacNeil/Lehrer report on public television.

But, you see, I'm able to discard the obvious sales pitch and retain the news feature of the day. When I watch, I separate out the important news and "opinions" for myself. I glean what I need and critique the pundits for their contributions, but I also follow print news. I know that there exists in this world propaganda, believe me I have studied this. I learned a lot by studying Goebbels and Leni Riefenstahl; they wrote the book on modern day propaganda. Both print and broadcast journalism is a necessary evil in this country, do not underestimate it's importance in the grand scheme of things. That and propaganda must be given it's proper respect if we are to survive as a society.

Having said that; yes, I sometimes loathe watching it (and reading it) because it's impossible to know exactly what's going on. That goes for our resident experts too.

By the way, I don't know why Trump fired Comey either, but it is highly suspicious that after his private dinner with Comey, he suddenly felt the urge to get rid of him (this despite the fact that Comey single-handedly helped him ascend to the presidency with his bungling of the Clinton private server files). But that too is another story. Trump was an idiot to fire him; that's what brought Mueller - who is not fooling around). So he is a stupid man. Yeah, sure he knows real estate, but that's about it. For everything else, he's dumber than a bag of rocks. Him and the Scarecrow share bunk beds in the land of Oz.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
They all do it. Fuck! change the channel or turn it off.



We seem to be in agreement on a lot of things.

I'd never try to convince you that Trump was an innocent angel. I'm sure he isn't. None of us are, let alone anybody in power on any level. My issue comes with how the media has come at him relentlessly since day one. You agree on that and even made a joke about if Trump takes a shit that the MSM will dissect it and tell us what he ate last night.

I don't know why Trump would fire Comey. I can't even speculate on it. That's another problem with the media today. That's all they do is speculate. There is no investigative journalism anymore. I'm sure Trump knew how guilty doing so would make him look in the eyes of people who already hated him. (And yes, hate is not used wrong here. It is genuine hate that many people in this country have for our President).

He's a lot of things, but I don't think he's a stupid man. It's possible that he has nothing to worry about in the end and wasn't worried about the public perception of firing Comey. If anything, Comey has shown himself to be pretty incompetent and he wasn't very well respected by people on either side for his constant flip-flopping on issues. If Comey had cleared his name, people who hate Trump wouldn't have believed him. Do you think it will be easy for those same people to do that if Mueller clears his name?

Quote:

But if I were guilty, I wouldn't go around calling the cops a bunch of losers and suckers who were trying to frame me for the murder. That would piss them off and make them want to catch me and lock me up even more, now wouldn't it. Does that make sense?


Well that's just it. I wouldn't do it either. It doesn't make sense.

Unless something I said many months ago is true and that Trump is doing this all to end up catching some high ranking government officials and a large portion of the MSM in a huge GOTCHA moment when it turns out he isn't guilty.

Anyway... enough speculation on my part. I don't want to add to that shit-show.


I think that you think I watch Fox News. I don't. I can't stomach their bullshit anymore than I can MSNBC or CNN. I immediately tune out whenever anybody puts their bias in their "reporting" and this is something that all the cable "news" networks do constantly.

None of them give a shit about the truth. It's all about ratings.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


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Sunday, November 12, 2017 4:54 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

But, you see, I'm able to discard the obvious sales pitch and retain the news feature of the day. When I watch, I separate out the important news and "opinions" for myself. I glean what I need and critique the pundits for their contributions, but I also follow print news.
Yes, you dutifully consume and digest that which is laid before you. That's more than most, but I think you need to be a lot more "meta" about the news: the 50,000 ft view, not the 50 ft view. The news is shaped more by selection of stories than by story content or spin. Why are certain stories featured? Which stories are NOT being told? The only way to get a sense of "why" the news, not just "what" the news, is to sample the news from everywhere. Then you can see which sources withhold which kinds of stories.

Quote:

I know that there exists in this world propaganda, believe me I have studied this. I learned a lot by studying Goebbels and Leni Riefenstahl; they wrote the book on modern day propaganda.= SHINY


Oh hon, you have no idea what propaganda is. Every storyline is propaganda; they rely on the same memes over and over: The world is filled with bad guys and heroes. The bad guys are (conveniently) our political enemies. We depend on the individual hero. Righteous violence wins the day.

BOOKS have their memes: Girls will find their prince. (There was an interesting book on that Cindrella Ate My Daughter!) Youth and beauty are associated with goodness and purity. The individual hero (again).

And most insidious of all, advertisement. If you think you know propaganda, you should watch this video about the real father of propaganda: Edward Bernays, nephew of Sigmund Freud, and a real sociopath when it came to manipulating "the masses"



You have probably never read a book or watched a show/ movie that crossed up your expectations; they are so inbuilt that they've become almost universal. Here are a few real-life examples of actual stories that crossed up MY expectations about how stories "should" go:

There is a brewing conflict between tow racial groups, each represented by a protagonist. Right about the time that you think violence would break out, both groups get together and negotiate a compromise.

In a post-apocalyptic world, a barely-hanging on settlement is riven by an internal dispute, where a significant minority believes it is necessary to explore upstream to look for other settlements, and the majority believes that any loss of membership would fatally weaken them. The minority sneaks away in the dead of night with supplies and canoes; the remainder manage to survive ... and the escapees are never heard from again, not even referentially in the storyline

A man is falsely accused of a crime, and placed on the prison island of Cuba, where prisoners are drugged into a blissful accepting state ... and used as the source of transplant body parts for wealthy citizens. Our hero survives on (unadulterated) sugar and water, and plans his escape by jumping into the bin of bodies as they're sluiced out to sea; he figures he'd rather take his chances with the sharks. But as his body hits the cold ocean water, the lights and sirens come on, and he's plucked from the ocean by the guards ("What, don't you think we have infrared cameras?") .... only to be rescued by a wealthy socialite that he never even heard of, who took an interest in his case.

It's like our news ... we have inbuilt expectations from years and years of exposure, and we only realize that we have them when they're violated in some way. It's a gift to learn about assumptions and paradigms that underlie response; most people don't have any insight into why they behave the way they do.

Man Against Myth by Burrows Dunham.
Blink by Malcolm Gladwell

---------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, November 26, 2017 1:18 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You'd have to revamp the tax structure because it's far too easy for corporations and transnational elites to declare their profits in tax havens, or hide their wealth in "instant" subsidiaries and foundations

Here you are proving my point. Tax "Havens" is merely LibtardSpeak for a situation where a LOWER Tax Rate is where any reasonable and rational person would willingly pay their fair share of Taxes, instead of the option of paying obtrusively excessive high confiscatory Tax Rates outside of the "Tax Haven" environment.
So, Lower Tax Rate results in Higher Tax Revenue for the Taxing Authority, and Higher Tax Rate results in Lower Tax Revenue. Or, more precisely, LOSS of Tax Revenue.
Pretty logical.
Quote:

If it were me, I'd simply drop the tax rate but also eliminate specialized deductions, exemptions, expenses, depreciations, subsidies, etc.
Is this another endorsement of Consumption Tax? Reason may be dawning.
Quote:

OH BTW- JSF- that concept that lower rates increvase tax revenues has been disproved over and over and over again. That is a misapplication of a concept called the aptly-named "Laffer Curve". Every tax-cutting Republican President - including Reagan- sang that song, and every one of them was proved wrong, as demonstrated by the history of actual government revenues versus tax rates.

Before you forward an idea like this, it would be useful to look up actual numbers to see if it's been validated by reality.

The Koolaid is strong with this one.
Please provide a valid example of this: identify one time when LOWERING the Federal Tax RATE resulted in LESS Federal Tax Revenues.

I guess "Reaganomics Denier" is a thing now, another version of Libtard Surreality.

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Sunday, November 26, 2017 1:26 PM

THGRRI


With Trump it's about stacking the deck against any kink of oversight and accountability. This includes globally. Everything about him screams Putin wannabe.
T


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Another brilliant move on the part of the Fake President.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate panel

Brett J. Talley, President Trump’s nominee to be a federal judge in Alabama, has never tried a case, was unanimously rated “not qualified” by the American Bar Assn.’s judicial rating committee, has practiced law for only three years and, as a blogger last year, displayed a degree of partisanship unusual for a judicial nominee, denouncing “Hillary Rotten Clinton” and pledging support for the National Rifle Assn.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-judge-20171110-story.h
tml


Is this what Trump means by drain the swamp. This judge is clueless about what this country is about and the rule of law.

Bravo SIG, you sure can pickem. Stooge, a person who serves merely to support or assist others. You SIG are a stooge, which is only one of the many other unpleasant things that you are, comrade.










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Sunday, November 26, 2017 1:49 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN



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Tuesday, November 28, 2017 8:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Trump may be all manner of stupid. He may even be a corrupt businessman, but the one thing he isn't is a traitor to the USA, like Hillary is.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, November 28, 2017 10:35 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Trump may be all manner of stupid. He may even be a corrupt businessman, but the one thing he isn't is a traitor to the USA, like Hillary is.




And you have evidence of that right? Evidence of Hillary commiting an act of treason. Let's see it.


T

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Tuesday, November 28, 2017 11:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Trump may be all manner of stupid. He may even be a corrupt businessman, but the one thing he isn't is a traitor to the USA, like Hillary is.- SIGNY

And you have evidence of that right? Evidence of Hillary commiting an act of treason. Let's see it.- THUGR



Anyone advocating that America give over its sovereign right of creating and drafting its own laws through the democratic process ... laws regarding the environment, health, wages, finance, immigration, the economy etc ... to foreign powers is a traitor.

I can't think of a clearer description of traitorous behavior than that.

Hillary is a traitor.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:15 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Trump may be all manner of stupid. He may even be a corrupt businessman, but the one thing he isn't is a traitor to the USA, like Hillary is.- SIGNY

And you have evidence of that right? Evidence of Hillary commiting an act of treason. Let's see it.- THUGR



Anyone advocating that America give over its sovereign right of creating and drafting its own laws through the democratic process ... laws regarding the environment, health, wages, finance, immigration, the economy etc ... to foreign powers is a traitor.

I can't think of a clearer description of traitorous behavior than that.

Hillary is a traitor.




There you have it folks. Once again we get to witness sig the hypocrite. Thread after thread we see her post there is no evidence to show Trump or his associates conspired with the Russians. She posts these denials even though aid after aid of Trumps, cabinet member after cabinet, family member after family member and appointee after appointee of his has been caught lying about their Russian connections.

Then she has the tenacity to post this shit as though it is evidence of Hillary's treasonous behavior.

Sig, your as sick as they come. And quite frankly, so are all those who don't call her on it.


T

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Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:15 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Trump may be all manner of stupid. He may even be a corrupt businessman, but the one thing he isn't is a traitor to the USA, like Hillary is.- SIGNY

And you have evidence of that right? Evidence of Hillary commiting an act of treason. Let's see it.- THUGR



Anyone advocating that America give over its sovereign right of creating and drafting its own laws through the democratic process ... laws regarding the environment, health, wages, finance, immigration, the economy etc ... to foreign powers is a traitor.

I can't think of a clearer description of traitorous behavior than that.

Hillary is a traitor.




There you have it folks. Once again we get to witness sig the hypocrite. Thread after thread we see her post there is no evidence to show Trump or his associates conspired with the Russians. She posts these denials even though aid after aid of Trumps, cabinet member after cabinet member, family member after family member and appointee after appointee of his has been caught lying about their Russian connections.

Then she has the tenacity to post this shit as though it is evidence of Hillary's treasonous behavior.

Sig your as sick as they come. And quite frankly, so are all those who don't call her on it. Show me the evidence!!


T

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Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:20 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Trump may be all manner of stupid. He may even be a corrupt businessman, but the one thing he isn't is a traitor to the USA, like Hillary is.- SIGNY

And you have evidence of that right? Evidence of Hillary commiting an act of treason. Let's see it.- THUGR



Anyone advocating that America give over its sovereign right of creating and drafting its own laws through the democratic process ... laws regarding the environment, health, wages, finance, immigration, the economy etc ... to foreign powers is a traitor.

I can't think of a clearer description of traitorous behavior than that.

Hillary is a traitor.




There you have it folks. Once again we get to witness sig the hypocrite. Thread after thread we see her post there is no evidence to show Trump or his associates conspired with the Russians. She posts these denials even though aid after aid of Trumps, cabinet member after cabinet member, family member after family member and appointee after appointee of his has been caught lying about their Russian connections.

Then she has the tenacity to post this shit as though it is evidence of Hillary's treasonous behavior.

Sig your as sick as they come. And quite frankly, so are all those who don't call her on it. Show me the evidence!!


T



T must have been especially proud of this post since he posted it twice.

My favorite part of it has to be the last line:

Quote:

Sig your as sick as they come. And quite frankly, so are all those who don't call her on it. Show me the evidence!!


You should all hate them because they're all as sick as they come... because they don't agree with me!

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


THUGR, as Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton strongly advocated for the TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership) and TTIP. As candidate, she w/drew her support (probably after seeing how unpopular they were with her base, and how much traction both Sanders and Trump were getting with their opposition)
Quote:

Hillary Clinton’s awkward history on trade policy

https://www.ft.com/content/c2d1c2ca-85e3-11e6-8897-2359a58ac7a5

Whatever the specific environmental/ worker provisions she claimed were lacking in both trade agreements, the REAL for rejecting the trade agreements SHOULD HAVE BEEN the provision which allows corporations to sue governments over regulations which interfere with profits, and to be heard in a private trade tribunals, not in a court of law of the relevant nation. So any city, any state, any nation which seeks (for example) to regulate food safety or pharmaceuticals; or products made with child labor; or high-carbon fuels could be sued for interfering with the corporation's profits, and there is a good chance that the corporation would win.

I know I've posted about this many times before, but what this means is that you can shit-can all of laws and regulations that have been created via the democratic process; and subject them to decisions made by an overseas secret group.

Advocating for that loss of control, IMHO, is treason.

Quote:

“[The] TPP would expand the ‘investor-state’ dispute settlement system that allows foreign firms operating here to drag the U.S. government before extrajudicial tribunals staffed by private corporate lawyers to demand unlimited taxpayer compensation if they think our environmental, health or other laws violate their TPP rights and limit their ‘expected future profits,’” wrote Wallach. “Tribunals have ordered governments to pay $3.6 billion to corporations for toxics, energy, water and other policies under past U.S. agreements. These involved developing nations with few U.S. investors here, so we avoided greater liability. But with 9,000 corporations from TPP nations established here, the TPP would double U.S. exposure to these attacks. That alone would provide 9,000 reasons to oppose TPP.”

https://www.thenation.com/article/tpp-prioritizes-rights-of-corporatio
ns-over-workers-the-environment-and-democracy
/

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, November 28, 2017 3:13 PM

THGRRI


Hear say, innuendo, based on fake news. Proof sig, the kind you are demanding concerning Trump. What is it you don't understand. From this day going forward I will remind you that what you post lacks evidence. It is is after all, according to you, only fake news clippings.

You're so ignorant, you kiki and Jack have painted yourselfs into a corner. The three of you have labeled the main stream media as fake news. You can't possibly source any of it as factual after that. Morons, one and all.


T


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
THUGR, as Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton strongly advocated for the TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership) and TTIP. As candidate, she w/drew her support (probably after seeing how unpopular they were with her base, and how much traction both Sanders and Trump were getting with their opposition)
Quote:

Hillary Clinton’s awkward history on trade policy

https://www.ft.com/content/c2d1c2ca-85e3-11e6-8897-2359a58ac7a5

Whatever the specific environmental/ worker provisions she claimed were lacking in both trade agreements, the REAL for rejecting the trade agreements SHOULD HAVE BEEN the provision which allows corporations to sue governments over regulations which interfere with profits, and to be heard in a private trade tribunals, not in a court of law of the relevant nation. So any city, any state, any nation which seeks (for example) to regulate food safety or pharmaceuticals; or products made with child labor; or high-carbon fuels could be sued for interfering with the corporation's profits, and there is a good chance that the corporation would win.

I know I've posted about this many times before, but what this means is that you can shit-can all of laws and regulations that have been created via the democratic process; and subject them to decisions made by an overseas secret group.

Advocating for that loss of control, IMHO, is treason.

Quote:

“[The] TPP would expand the ‘investor-state’ dispute settlement system that allows foreign firms operating here to drag the U.S. government before extrajudicial tribunals staffed by private corporate lawyers to demand unlimited taxpayer compensation if they think our environmental, health or other laws violate their TPP rights and limit their ‘expected future profits,’” wrote Wallach. “Tribunals have ordered governments to pay $3.6 billion to corporations for toxics, energy, water and other policies under past U.S. agreements. These involved developing nations with few U.S. investors here, so we avoided greater liability. But with 9,000 corporations from TPP nations established here, the TPP would double U.S. exposure to these attacks. That alone would provide 9,000 reasons to oppose TPP.”

https://www.thenation.com/article/tpp-prioritizes-rights-of-corporatio
ns-over-workers-the-environment-and-democracy
/





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Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Hear say, innuendo, based on fake news.
Bullshit.

Hillary has made no secret of her previous support for TPP/ TTIP. It's been publicly stated and documented.

The provisions of TTP/ TTIP which would strip participating nations of their sovereign rights are also well-known, and have been well documented for the public.

Unlike all of your collective hot air, where you accuse Trump of doing "something" against the USA (but you're never very clear about what it is) my objections against Hillary are very specific and very well-documented.

You could argue whether Hillary's policies amounted to "treason" or not, but there is no question what they were. From my POV, I just can't imagine how anyone with their head screwed on straight and who "supposedly" represented the interests of the USA could possibly support such free trade treason.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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