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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
You do know that the pictures that appear on the news are provided by the "government," by ICE itself. They don't allow any kind of recording devices, or allow interviews, of the refugees.

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Of course they don't. That would be invading the privacy of a minor, who can't be deemed to give consent.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Don't bother Reaverfan, these guys are about as dumb as a bag of rocks.
Actually, rocks have higher IQs. Besides they are following the Putin Playbook. Just like the Shit for Brains: Lewandowski.


SGG

Quote:

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Originally posted by reaverfan:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Hyperbole.




Don't cross the border illegally and this won't happen.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Seeking asylum isn't illegal. Trump's intentional abuse of children is a crime.

And you wonder why we pity you, wet-brain.

---

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Just what the fuck are they seeking asylum from in Mexico?

Don't you dare even say that there aren't enough cops there policing gang violence or the drug trade either.

I grew up near communities that had the exact same problem and still do to this day. I live by one now, and some of the people I work with actually live inside of it.

We've got problems of our own we need to tend to first, before adding to our own by taking on Mexico's problem.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Obviously you haven't been paying attention Six.

Not Mexico, but Central America, in particular Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador.
Fleeing violence from those countries, which is a helluva difference from the violence here in the US. Just take a look at what your "friend" Siggy posted above
regarding the right-wing deaths in the 80s. Those were rather brutal bastards.

But today you have something far worse, gangs and drug cartels. Anyway, you don't
want to help them, fine, step aside.


SGG

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Don't bother Reaverfan, these guys are about as dumb as a bag of rocks.
Actually, rocks have higher IQs. Besides they are following the Putin Playbook. Just like the Shit for Brains: Lewandowski.


SGG

Quote:

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Originally posted by reaverfan:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Hyperbole.




Don't cross the border illegally and this won't happen.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Seeking asylum isn't illegal. Trump's intentional abuse of children is a crime.

And you wonder why we pity you, wet-brain.

---

---

Just what the fuck are they seeking asylum from in Mexico?

Don't you dare even say that there aren't enough cops there policing gang violence or the drug trade either.

I grew up near communities that had the exact same problem and still do to this day. I live by one now, and some of the people I work with actually live inside of it.

We've got problems of our own we need to tend to first, before adding to our own by taking on Mexico's problem.

---

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

What's worse, GSTRING ... showing a disturbing image online, or killing actual babies? You're OK with killing babies but not OK with showing the results? 'Cause, yanno, maybe if we posted a picture of EVERYONE that we killed, maybe we wouldn't kill so many people!

You don't REALLY care about "children" GSTRING, or you'd be a lot hotter about the children who are at the muzzle end of our foreign policy. So, what's your REAL problem here, GSTRING? And what's your real purpose?

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-THIS is the subject that GSTRING "isn't interested" in discussing - SIGNY

Wrong again ... I've not only "seen that movie" I've been in it.- GSTRING

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Time magazine cover showing President Trump looking down on a crying 2-year-old Honduran girl.

Of course now we know that the “crying girl” story was totally fake news. That girl was never separated from her mother, and they had paid a smuggler six thousand dollars to get them across the border.

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Originally posted by JO753:
Its all distraction.

Trump alwayz duz the most outrajus thing he can think uv to maximize the attention. Why else woud Melania wear that coat?

The obvious thing to distract from iz the TrumPutin conspirasy, but I'm suspicious that even that iz just a distraction.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Obviously you haven't been paying attention Six.

Not Mexico, but Central America, in particular Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador.
Fleeing violence from those countries, which is a helluva difference from the violence here in the US. Just take a look at what your "friend" Siggy posted above
regarding the right-wing deaths in the 80s. Those were rather brutal bastards.

But today you have something far worse, gangs and drug cartels. Anyway, you don't
want to help them, fine, step aside.


SGG

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Don't bother Reaverfan, these guys are about as dumb as a bag of rocks.
Actually, rocks have higher IQs. Besides they are following the Putin Playbook. Just like the Shit for Brains: Lewandowski.


SGG

Quote:

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Originally posted by reaverfan:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Hyperbole.




Don't cross the border illegally and this won't happen.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Seeking asylum isn't illegal. Trump's intentional abuse of children is a crime.

And you wonder why we pity you, wet-brain.

---

---

Just what the fuck are they seeking asylum from in Mexico?

Don't you dare even say that there aren't enough cops there policing gang violence or the drug trade either.

I grew up near communities that had the exact same problem and still do to this day. I live by one now, and some of the people I work with actually live inside of it.

We've got problems of our own we need to tend to first, before adding to our own by taking on Mexico's problem.

---

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Last I checked, there is a 758,400 sq mile country in between us. They can stay in Mexico.

Until we have Utopia here, and let me tell you, it's far from it now, we don't need to be making things worse by bringing in more people from shithole countries that can't speak English that we have to pay for.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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How US policy in Honduras set the stage for today’s mass migration

Central American migrants – particularly unaccompanied minors – are again crossing the U.S.-Mexico boundary in large numbers.

In 2014, more than 68,000 unaccompanied Central American children were apprehended at the U.S.-Mexico boundary. This year so far there have been close to 60,000.

The mainstream narrative often reduces the causes of migration to factors unfolding in migrants’ home countries. In reality, migration is often a manifestation of a profoundly unequal and exploitative relationship between migrant-sending countries and countries of destination. Understanding this is vital to making immigration policy more effective and ethical.

Through my research on immigration and border policing, I have learned a lot about these dynamics. One example involves relations between Honduras and the United States.
U.S. roots of Honduran emigration

I first visited Honduras in 1987 to do research. As I walked around the city of Comayagua, many thought that I, a white male with short hair in his early 20’s, was a U.S. soldier. This was because hundreds of U.S. soldiers were stationed at the nearby Palmerola Air Base at the time. Until shortly before my arrival, many of them would frequent Comayagua, particularly its “red zone” of female sex workers.

U.S. military presence in Honduras and the roots of Honduran migration to the United States are closely linked. It began in the late 1890s, when U.S.-based banana companies first became active there.

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As historian Walter LaFeber writes in “Inevitable Revolutions: The United States in Central America,” American companies “built railroads, established their own banking systems, and bribed government officials at a dizzying pace.” As a result, the Caribbean coast “became a foreign-controlled enclave that systematically swung the whole of Honduras into a one-crop economy whose wealth was carried off to New Orleans, New York, and later Boston.”

By 1914, U.S. banana interests owned almost 1 million acres of Honduras’ best land. These holdings grew through the 1920s to such an extent that, as LaFeber asserts, Honduran peasants “had no hope of access to their nation’s good soil.” Over a few decades, U.S. capital also came to dominate the country’s banking and mining sectors, a process facilitated by the weak state of Honduras’ domestic business sector. This was coupled with direct U.S. political and military interventions to protect U.S. interests in 1907 and 1911.

Such developments made Honduras’ ruling class dependent on Washington for support. A central component of this ruling class was and remains the Honduran military. By the mid-1960s it had become, in LaFeber’s words, the country’s “most developed political institution,” – one that Washington played a key role in shaping.


The Reagan era



A U.S. military advisor instructs Honduran troopers in Puerto Castilla, Honduras, in 1983. AP Photo

This was especially the case during the presidency of Ronald Reagan in the 1980s. At that time, U.S. political and military policy was so influential that many referred to the Central American country as the “U.S.S. Honduras” and the Pentagon Republic.

As part of its effort to overthrow the Sandinista government in neighboring Nicaragua and “roll back” the region’s leftist movements, the Reagan administration “temporarily” stationed several hundred U.S. soldiers in Honduras. Moreover, it trained and sustained Nicaragua’s “contra” rebels on Honduran soil, while greatly increasing military aid and arm sales to the country.

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The Reagan years also saw the construction of numerous joint Honduran-U.S. military bases and installations. Such moves greatly strengthened the militarization of Honduran society. In turn, political repression rose. There was a dramatic increase in the number of political assassinations, “disappearances” and illegal detentions.

The Reagan administration also played a big role in restructuring the Honduran economy. It did so by strongly pushing for internal economic reforms, with a focus on exporting manufactured goods. It also helped deregulate and destabilize the global coffee trade, upon which Honduras heavily depended. These changes made Honduras more amenable to the interests of global capital. They disrupted traditional forms of agriculture and undermined an already weak social safety net.

These decades of U.S. involvement in Honduras set the stage for Honduran emigration to the United States, which began to markedly increase in the 1990s.

In the post-Reagan era, Honduras remained a country scarred by a heavy-handed military, significant human rights abuses and pervasive poverty. Still, liberalizing tendencies of successive governments and grassroots pressure provided openings for democratic forces.

They contributed, for example, to the election of Manuel Zelaya, a liberal reformist, as president in 2006. He led on progressive measures such as raising the minimum wage. He also tried to organize a plebiscite to allow for a constituent assembly to replace the country’s constitution, which had been written during a military government. However, these efforts incurred the ire of the country’s oligarchy, leading to his overthrow by the military in June 2009.

Post-coup Honduras
The 2009 coup, more than any other development, explains the increase in Honduran migration across the southern U.S. border in the last few years. The Obama administration has played an important role in these developments. Although it officially decried Zelaya’s ouster, it equivocated on whether or not it constituted a coup, which would have required the U.S. to stop sending most aid to the country.


Then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton meets with Honduran foreign minister in 2010. AP Photo/Evan Vucci

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, in particular, sent conflicting messages, and worked to ensure that Zelaya did not return to power. This was contrary to the wishes of the Organization of American States, the leading hemispheric political forum composed of the 35 member-countries of the Americas, including the Caribbean. Several months after the coup, Clinton supported a highly questionable election aimed at legitimating the post-coup government.

Strong military ties between the U.S. and Honduras persist: several hundred U.S. troops are stationed at Soto Cano Air Base (formerly Palmerola) in the name of fighting the drug war and providing humanitarian aid.

Since the coup, writes historian Dana Frank, “a series of corrupt administrations has unleashed open criminal control of Honduras, from top to bottom of the government.”

Organized crime, drug traffickers and the country’s police heavily overlap. Impunity reigns in a country with frequent politically-motivated killings. It is the world’s most dangerous country for environmental activists, according to Global Witness, an international nongovernmental organization.

Although its once sky-high murder rate has declined, the continuing exodus of many youth demonstrates that violent gangs still plague urban neighborhoods.

Meanwhile, post-coup governments have intensified an increasingly unregulated, “free market” form of capitalism that makes life unworkable for many. Government spending on health and education, for example, has declined in Honduras. Meanwhile, the country’s poverty rate has risen markedly. These contribute to the growing pressures that push many people to migrate.

While the next U.S. president will deliberate about what to do about unwanted immigration from “south of the border,” this history provides lessons as to the roots of migration. It also raises ethical questions as to the responsibility of the United States toward those now fleeing from the ravages U.S. policy has helped to produce.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
And Blumpy's supporters still have the gall to say they aren't all the same, they aren't all crazy racists, they aren't bad people just because they support him.

Supporting Donald Trump is supporting tearing children, toddlers, babies from their parents and not keeping a single record so they can never be returned. It's unforgivable. It's unconscionable. We keep hitting new lows and I am horrified to think what might be next. But god forbid you think that Trump supporters are bad people.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Having failed to make your case here...

This is Why Trump is a SCUMBAG!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62480

and here...

speaking of the news
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=62476

... you start YET ANOTHER THREAD on the same topic with the same amount of spittle? Why don't you just go back to the other threads and address the points which you failed to answer the first couple-of-dozen-times?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

---

Quote:

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Quote:

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
And Blumpy's supporters still have the gall to say they aren't all the same, they aren't all crazy racists, they aren't bad people just because they support him.

Supporting Donald Trump is supporting tearing children, toddlers, babies from their parents and not keeping a single record so they can never be returned. It's unforgivable. It's unconscionable. We keep hitting new lows and I am horrified to think what might be next. But god forbid you think that Trump supporters are bad people.

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I don't see how this isn't kidnapping and very prosecutable. I hope there are many lawsuits.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
Avenatti: The government can't match removed children to mothers

Michael Avenatti, attorney for a former foster facility employee, talks with Rachel Maddow about his client who smuggled video out of the facility to show the consequences of the Trump administration's "zero tolerance" border policy.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/avenatti-the-government-can-t
-match-removed-children-to-mothers-1263877699908?playlist=associated

And Blumpy's supporters still have the gall to say they aren't all the same, they aren't all crazy racists, they aren't bad people just because they support him.

Supporting Donald Trump is supporting tearing children, toddlers, babies from their parents and not keeping a single record so they can never be returned. It's unforgivable. It's unconscionable. We keep hitting new lows and I am horrified to think what might be next. But god forbid you think that Trump supporters are bad people.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by JO753:
Lets call it wut it iz: kidnapping.

Just kuz its the gummit doing it duznt make it sumthing else.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Quote:

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
And now- Baby stealing for Christian indoctrination!

Christian Non-Profit Faces Scrutiny Over Government Foster Care Contract for Separated Children
Bethany Christian Services, which has links to the family of Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, has fostered out at least 81 children taken from their parents at the U.S. border.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/06/26/bethany-christian-services-fami
ly-separation-betsy-devos/

"The organization has existing contracts with the Department of Health and Human Services to provide refugee resettlement services, as well as more overtly Christian initiatives such as abstinence-only sex education, and “healthy marriage promotion.”

We sent Bethany Christian Services a series of detailed questions, including what the end date for the provision of foster services is on the organization’s contract with the Department of Health and Human Services, whether the terms of the contract prohibited or allowed for the for the future possibility that separated children in Bethany’s care might be legally adopted by American families, as well as what the fees paid to Bethany by the government are. We did not receive a response of any kind.

We also sent similar detailed questions to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, including whether it was keeping a record of the identity and whereabouts of each child contracted out into foster care, and each child’s parents, as well as requesting some very basic facts on the number of separated children placed in foster care, and the names of the organizations being paid for it. We did not receive a response to any of our questions."

Looks suspicious to me.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
Families Belong Together: Child Separation as a Function of Capital
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/07/05/families-belong-together-child
-separation-as-a-function-of-capital/

Given the current channeling of children separated from their parents at the border into a foster-care/adoption industry primed to disconnect them from their families, communities, and cultures, a review of the history of this practice will go far to reveal the bigger picture that must be addressed if we are to claim any kind of socially progressive stance concerning these children and their families.

A history of scumbags.

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Blasting the Trump administration for what he called “a chaotic circumstance of the Government’s own making,” Sabraw said it was a “startling reality” that no adequate planning had been done before officials embarked on a policy to separate children from parents kept in immigration custody or referred for criminal prosecution. The practice has led to more than 2,300 children being separated from their parents or other family members.
“The government readily keeps track of personal property of detainees in criminal and immigration proceedings,” Sabraw wrote in his 24-page order. “Money, important documents, and automobiles, to name a few, are routinely catalogued, stored, tracked and produced upon a detainee’s release, at all levels — state and federal, citizen and alien. Yet, the government has no system in place to keep track of, provide effective communication with, and promptly produce alien children. The unfortunate reality is that under the present system migrant children are not accounted for with the same efficiency and accuracy as property. Certainly, that cannot satisfy the requirements of due process.”

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The preliminary injunction also blocks deporting parents who have been separated from their children “unless the Class Member affirmatively, knowingly, and voluntarily declines to be reunited with the child prior to the Class Member’s deportation, or there is a determination that the parent is unfit or presents a danger to the child.” The judge also prohibited future family separations, with limited exceptions.

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“The right to family integrity still applies here,” the judge wrote. “The context of the family separation practice at issue here, namely an international border, does not render the practice constitutional, nor does it shield the practice from judicial review.”

Sabraw also said the government has an affirmative duty to reunite parents with their children, not simply to hand out toll-free numbers that immigrants can call to try to locate their kids, who are typically in the legal custody of the Department of Health and Human Services’ Office of Refugee Resettlement, or ORR.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by CAPTAINCRUNCH:

Quote:

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
And now- Baby stealing for Christian indoctrination!

Christian Non-Profit Faces Scrutiny Over Government Foster Care Contract for Separated Children
Bethany Christian Services, which has links to the family of Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, has fostered out at least 81 children taken from their parents at the U.S. border.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/06/26/bethany-christian-services-fami
ly-separation-betsy-devos/

"The organization has existing contracts with the Department of Health and Human Services to provide refugee resettlement services, as well as more overtly Christian initiatives such as abstinence-only sex education, and “healthy marriage promotion.”

We sent Bethany Christian Services a series of detailed questions, including what the end date for the provision of foster services is on the organization’s contract with the Department of Health and Human Services, whether the terms of the contract prohibited or allowed for the for the future possibility that separated children in Bethany’s care might be legally adopted by American families, as well as what the fees paid to Bethany by the government are. We did not receive a response of any kind.

We also sent similar detailed questions to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, including whether it was keeping a record of the identity and whereabouts of each child contracted out into foster care, and each child’s parents, as well as requesting some very basic facts on the number of separated children placed in foster care, and the names of the organizations being paid for it. We did not receive a response to any of our questions."

Looks suspicious to me.

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The White House is into human trafficking now - swell. You suppose Miller gets a commission on each child?

Seriously - who prosecutes human traffickers? Is that ACLU bringing a civil suit on behalf of parents?

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Quote:

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
Analysis: If kids separated from their parents can’t hold our attention, what will?
Public attention has moved, but the news hasn't: The separated families on the border are still waiting to be reunited.
https://www.texastribune.org/2018/07/06/kids-parents-immigration-separ
ation-texas-mexico/?utm_campaign=trib-social&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit&utm_content=5654823845

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