Fascistic immigration policy continues to kill kids by reaverfan

8-YEAR-OLD MIGRANTS BEING FORCED TO CARE FOR TODDLERS IN DETENTION CAMPS
https://www.newsweek.com/migrant-children-detention-camps-donald-trump
-1445313

More properly referred to as concentration camps.

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Saturday, June 22, 2019 10:14 AM

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Saturday, June 22, 2019 10:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by REAVERFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Parents who cross this border illegally with kids in tow kill their kids.

Period.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Why are you so stupid? Head injury? Illiteracy? Paint chips?

Or did all that alcohol fry your wet brain?

As opposed to a dry brain?

Did all that meth dry out your crusty rotten diseased turd floating around between those ears?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 22, 2019 10:46 AM

https://nypost.com/2019/06/21/ice-claims-more-illegals-were-deported-u
nder-obama-than-trump/

Obama detained and deported more illegals than any President. I guess I should like him now.

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Saturday, June 22, 2019 3:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TrollBot:

Further proof that just because she quit her job as bartender doesn't mean she stopped drinking.

Sometimes I think I've known far too many bartenders.

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Saturday, June 22, 2019 3:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Parents who cross this border illegally with kids in tow kill their kids.

Period.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Yes, exactly. The parents' thoughtless and selfish decision to drag their kids with them for hundreds or thousands of miles without proper food, shelter, and medicine are guilty of reckless and severe child abuse. They should all be locked up in prison and have their children taken from them, just like CPS does every day in every city in America. No wonder the kids arrive in the US with malnutrition, the flu and other maladies. They get great compassionate medical care here and anyone saying differently is nothing but a gorram liar.
That's the only reply anybody should even post in this thread.

There is no discussion to be had on the issue at all.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Butbutbutbutbut!!!!!

They were only trying to Invade a foreign country, you cannot blame them for that!!
They were only avoiding Legal Ports of Entry, which are the only locations where Asylum can be sought, and processed. You cannot expect Illegal Aliens to suddenly start obeying or abiding the Law of the Land that they are Illegally Invading.
They were only seeking out these "outposts" to Illegally Invade across the Border so that they wouldn't need to wait for so long for CBP to catch and detain them.
They reportedly traveled hundreds of miles along the Border to find an Outpost to Illegally Invade across the Border, and waited until the system was overburdened with their Illegal Alien campadres so that the system would not be able to adequately deal with them, just like their Illegal Alien handlers coached them to do. Surprising they didn't each bring along their own press crew to document the process each time. They can't help it that they need, insist upon breaking the Laws of the country they proclaim they want Fake asylum in.

Somehow this is not the fault of the Democrap organizers of Illegal Alien Caravans who tell them how to break the Law, coach them to break the Law, train them to avoid obeying the Law. Yet it must be the fault of the Law Enforcement units which the Democrap organizers are constantly fighting against. Curious, that.

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Saturday, June 22, 2019 4:11 PM

Please stop lying and proving how stupid you are. ^

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Saturday, June 22, 2019 4:13 PM

The border patrol lawyer who just argued that imprisoned children don't need blankets is the same one that tried to put off reuniting separated families last year because she was dogsitting
https://heavy.com/news/2019/06/sarah-fabian/

Her name is Sarah Fabian. She is a white supremacist and a murderer. May karma visit her soon.

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Sunday, June 23, 2019 7:48 AM

Tribune Editorial: Yes, we do have concentration camps
https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/editorial/2019/06/22/tribune-editorial-
yes-we/

Yes, we do have concentration camps.

They are not work camps. They are not death camps. At least, not on purpose. Our government is not building massive gas chambers and industrial crematoria. It is not conducting sick medical experiments on members of an unfavored class.

But that does not mean that the places into which we are herding tens of thousands of migrants, refugees and asylum-seekers are not properly called concentration camps. Because that is precisely what they are.

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Sunday, June 23, 2019 7:49 AM

No. They're not.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, June 23, 2019 8:40 AM

Aghast Twitter Foes Slam DOJ Attorney Who Argued Against Soap, Beds For Migrant Kids
“Sarah Fabian! Sarah Fabian! Your room in hell is ready,” snaps one critic.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/doj-attorney-sarah-fabian-no-soap-beds-
toothburshes-immigrant-children_n_5d0ea60fe4b0aa375f4d8eda?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFwcq2_i1DpVMrUDRjLoM4wBkIfNT5JcnbVhJ08ZTXGofiBcVqad1c9Dj1UuWDMGUvnBUvQJ9dgyxFEIv1uOr8kYUJlrF1xjPiT5jRMpjka6rgwdvaKJgsz_V1ECOV2azK9fhzbq1urzwdyCFTF6ryMWDfm41tLdw2qLKpcMY8Sj

We all know jack is a wannabe Nazi with serious mental issues. He's as irrelevant as he sounds.

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Sunday, June 23, 2019 2:27 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by REAVERFAN:
Yes, we do have concentration camps.

ANY place where you hold large number of people can be called concentration camps, then. Even jails. But I don't see you going ape-shit over jails and prisons. I don't see you going ape-shit over US children who die everyday due to lack of/ inadequate/ untimely medical care. I don't see you going ape-shit over Americans who have poor house/ no housing.

Why is that?

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

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Monday, June 24, 2019 3:39 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Look at it this way, REAVERBOT: The more kids die, the less stress on the earth.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Monday, June 24, 2019 7:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by REAVERFAN:
Tribune Editorial: Yes, we do have concentration camps
https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/editorial/2019/06/22/tribune-editorial-
yes-we/

Yes, we do have concentration camps.

They are not work camps. They are not death camps. At least, not on purpose. Our government is not building massive gas chambers and industrial crematoria. It is not conducting sick medical experiments on members of an unfavored class.

But that does not mean that the places into which we are herding tens of thousands of

Illegal Aliens.
Not
Quote:
migrants,
migrants are those who work in a remote location from their home, commuting between their worksite and home, sometimes on a daily basis, or weekly basis, or longer. Yes, there are LEGAL migrant workers - these Illegal Aliens are not them.
Also not
Quote:
refugees
Refugees are those who are fleeing their home countries. - not traipsing across several other nations (such as Mexico) in caravans to Illegally Invade other Nations where they are known to not be welcome to commit their crimes.
Also not
Quote:
and asylum-seekers
Asylum Seekers do not commit crimes against the Nation to which they seek Asylum - they do not Illegally Invade such countries, and only upon capture from Illegally Invading do they trot out the pretext of "Asylum" after committing crimes against the host country. Those honestly seeking Asylum venture to a Legal Port/Point of Entry and declare that they are seeking Asylum. Others seek Asylum after they have legally entered the country on a Visa or invitation.

Quote:
are not properly called concentration camps. Because that is precisely what they are.

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Thursday, June 27, 2019 9:15 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Sounds about right JSF.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Thursday, June 27, 2019 3:35 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Sounds about right JSF.

Meh - start to figure out the best way to handle this by asking yourself: what kind of country do you want to have? Your answer will tell you. Trump's and Miller's choice for a solution of sadism and hatred may "work" given enough time - they have even (pretty cleverly) tricked the Democrats to go full on demagogue, as well as enlist the MSM to amplify their plan of Fear - but for me, no. That's not my solution because that's not the country I want to have. I will never support their sadism and bigotry as a solution. Not only unreliable for the end result and what price we will pay for it, it's the weakest motivation - base level hatred of another human. That is not the America I want, and it's pretty sad to see so many comfortable Americans being so comfortable with it. We're all here enjoying the possibilities of this country because at some point in our ancestral chain, we were helped to be here.

And sorry to disappoint, but I'm not a fan of open borders - that's insane. In fact, I would definitely change our policy on Seeking Asylum. Just getting a foot on US soil so that you can get in the asylum pipeline is a ludicrous. No wonder people are rushing here and crossing any way they can.

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Thursday, June 27, 2019 4:25 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

What kind of country do I want to have ... the kind of country that hypocritically sobs political alligator tears about those poor, poor children at the border while bombing brown children by the tens of thousands elsewhere? The kind of country that pretends those children are precious while ignoring the ones within its borders? The kind of country that runs on cynical photo ops as long as they're useful, but fails to fix the problems?

WE DON'T OWE WANNA' BE IMMIGRANTS ANYTHING - unless we have the cojones enough to say we ALSO owe those things to our own citizens.

And the kindest thing we could do is make our borders near impenetrable.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

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Thursday, June 27, 2019 7:54 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Meh - start to figure out the best way to handle this by asking yourself: what kind of country do you want to have?

Well! Funny you should ask! It's a question I've been trying to get ppl address for the past three years. Maybe longer!

Quote:
Your answer will tell you. Trump's and Miller's choice for a solution of sadism and hatred may "work" given enough time - they have even (pretty cleverly) tricked the Democrats to go full on demagogue, as well as enlist the MSM to amplify their plan of Fear - but for me, no. That's not my solution because that's not the country I want to have. I will never support their sadism and bigotry as a solution. Not only unreliable for the end result and what price we will pay for it, it's the weakest motivation - base level hatred of another human. That is not the America I want, and it's pretty sad to see so many comfortable Americans being so comfortable with it. We're all here enjoying the possibilities of this country because at some point in our ancestral chain, we were helped to be here.

Okay, I don't know about this "hatred" of other people that you seem to think drives any attempt at immigration control.

Maybe if I tell you ... for the 20th time ... what kind of country I want it may sink in.

First of all ... the government's FIRST obligation is to its citizens, NOT "the world".

Quote:
And sorry to disappoint, but I'm not a fan of open borders - that's insane. In fact, I would definitely change our policy on Seeking Asylum. Just getting a foot on US soil so that you can get in the asylum pipeline is a ludicrous. No wonder people are rushing here and crossing any way they can.

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Thursday, June 27, 2019 9:19 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Look at it this way, REAVERBOT: The more kids die, the less stress on the earth.

People obey the law, most of the time, without the government’s supervision. But if the law is believed to be poorly enforced, people will disobey. Trump told the world while running for President that he can’t enforce the border laws unless he had a big, beautiful wall built. Trump made a very dramatic case many times on TV, but he did not get his wall despite all his histrionics. The world then believed it could disobey the American border laws. Trump kept on dramatizing, with the longest government shutdown in history, that he can’t control the borders without his wall. The situation only got worse and worse thanks to more and more of Trump’s TV appearances where he tells the world the border is beyond his control.

President Donald Trump told reporters that he wants troops to guard the U.S. border until a wall has been put in place. “We have very bad laws for our border, and we are going to be doing some things. I’ve been speaking with General Mattis,” Trump said. “We’re going to be doing things militarily until we can have a wall and proper security, we’re going to be guarding our border with the military. That's a big step. We really haven't done that before or certainly not very much before.” This comes after Trump on Tuesday morning tweeted concerns about a "big Caravan of People from Honduras" heading to America's "Weak Laws’ Border."
www.thedailybeast.com/trump-we-will-use-military-to-guard-our-border

Trump could get the situation under control, again, by killing a few hundreds or thousands of law breakers with the justification they are "invaders" in an "army". He half tried the idea by sending the military to the border without ordering them to kill. It was not enough without the kill orders. I hope Trump tries this plan, gives the order. People will once again obey the law, most of the time, without the government killing them. This will control the border. This will also get him impeached, which is fine with me.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, June 27, 2019 10:54 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND:
fart

fify

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

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Friday, June 28, 2019 4:17 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Meh - start to figure out the best way to handle this by asking yourself: what kind of country do you want to have? - CC

Well! Funny you should ask! It's a question I've been trying to get ppl address for the past three years. Maybe longer! - SIGNY

Your answer will tell you. Trump's and Miller's choice for a solution of sadism and hatred may "work" given enough time - they have even (pretty cleverly) tricked the Democrats to go full on demagogue, as well as enlist the MSM to amplify their plan of Fear - but for me, no. That's not my solution because that's not the country I want to have. I will never support their sadism and bigotry as a solution. Not only unreliable for the end result and what price we will pay for it, it's the weakest motivation - base level hatred of another human. That is not the America I want, and it's pretty sad to see so many comfortable Americans being so comfortable with it. We're all here enjoying the possibilities of this country because at some point in our ancestral chain, we were helped to be here. - CC

Okay, I don't know about this "hatred" of other people that you seem to think drives any attempt at immigration control. Maybe if I tell you ... for the 20th time ... what kind of country I want it may sink in. First of all ... the government's FIRST obligation is to its citizens, NOT "the world". - SIGNY

And sorry to disappoint, but I'm not a fan of open borders - that's insane. In fact, I would definitely change our policy on Seeking Asylum. Just getting a foot on US soil so that you can get in the asylum pipeline is a ludicrous. No wonder people are rushing here and crossing any way they can. - CC

'K, where to start?

I posted a long and very unclear explanation about my thoughts on foreign policy etc, but I guess I'll start here, and differently:

WHY do people feel compelled to "help" illegal migrants?

Do they feel that "we" (as a nation) are somehow at fault?
Do they feel that America is "supposed to" stand for something better?
Or are they simply reacting to a shared Hispanic/Muslim/fill in ethnicity here and want "their" tribe to get some of the benefits of living and working here?

To the first question, I say that yes, America has a moral culpability for many of the migrant crises in our southern hemisphere and across the Middle East. We have "intervened" so many times thru so many decdes... bombed, invaded, destabilized, armed and fostered genocide, fomented civil wars, destroyed so much infrastructure, uprooted the livelihoods and cultures of so many ... that, yes, we DO shoulder quite a bit of blame for the poverty, trauma, and homelessness of many peoples. HOWEVER, it seems to me that the answer to THAT conundrum is not to succor the people that we broke. The answer is to stop breaking so many people.

To the second question, I think that responsiblity must equal authority and capability. You can't expect a person, entity, or nation, to solve a problem that is beyond it's legal authority or financial, etc capability. If you have stopped creating havoc and poverty throughout the world, then you are not morally oblgated to solve problems that are not only not of your own making, but are also beyond your capacity to fix. The only obligation that a nation has is to its own citizens living within its borders because that is the arena over which a nation has control.

If OTOH you're simply reacting to your "tribe" then I would say: Go back to where you came from, because your loyalty to your country of origin is obviously greater than your loyalty to your fellow citizens.

*****

AFA what to do with the border crisis.... The problem is that once a person is apprehended and put into custody, they become the resonsibility of the federal government, so the answer is to either deport them or decide their case as quickly as possible.

I would simply straightaway deport anyone who entered illegally who passed thru Mexico on their way here. Their only real reason to stay here legally is because they asked for asylum. But if they've already passed through another nation (or two, or three) wherethey COULD have asked for asylum, then asylum is obviously not their main goal and they are for all practical purposes an economic migrant, not any asylee.

Make people wait at the official entry points for requesting asylum.

Re-set asylum to only cover the original definition of POLITICAL asylum, which means that the government is following an overt or tacit policy of violence against your particular group (and BTW gender doesn't count) not because of generalized violence and poverty.

I would speed up the hearing process by making uniform categories for judges to use. There aren't THAT many unique cases in the hundreds of thousands of requests; it seems to me that almost all request would fall into just a few categories and could be decided quickly after a series of standardized questions.

****

But overall, I would do the following:

1) Get rid of the birthright citizenship clause of the 14th amendment
2) Make English the official language of the USA
3) Follow a non-interventionist foreign policy, and that means no sanctions, no destabilizations, no wars, no electoral interference in other nations
4) The above changes to our sylum process
5) End destructive "free trade" agreements

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Friday, June 28, 2019 7:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

But overall, I would do the following:

1) Get rid of the birthright citizenship clause of the 14th amendment--- can't & won't ever happen

2) Make English the official language of the USA--- lol, good luck with that

3) Follow a non-interventionist foreign policy, and that means no sanctions, no destabilizations, no wars, no electoral interference in other nations... as soon as they all stop maybe we can too

4) The above changes to our asylum process...Dems will never do any of it

5) End destructive "free trade" agreements...don't end them, just make sure they're good for our country like Trump has already done

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Friday, June 28, 2019 9:55 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well! Funny you should ask! It's a question I've been trying to get ppl address for the past three years. Maybe longer!
Maybe if I tell you ... for the 20th time ... what kind of country I want it may sink in.

Gee, I can't imagine why no one gives a sh*t about the same dull lecture for 20th time... can you?

Pass on the rest.

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Friday, June 28, 2019 11:38 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:

But overall, I would do the following:

1) Get rid of the birthright citizenship clause of the 14th amendment--- can't & won't ever happen

2) Make English the official language of the USA--- lol, good luck with that

3) Follow a non-interventionist foreign policy, and that means no sanctions, no destabilizations, no wars, no electoral interference in other nations... as soon as they all stop maybe we can too

Who are "they", and what are "they all" doing? What do we need to counter, that requires our aircraft carriers, bombers, and troops?

I'm not kdding; that's a serious question.

Quote:
4) The above changes to our asylum process...Dems will never do any of it

5) End destructive "free trade" agreements...don't end them, just make sure they're good for our country like Trump has already done

I realize that these won't go far, but I think this is not only the best, but probably the ONLY solution to our immigration problem.

Oh, yeah, and

6) Build and man the decent wall.
7) Do a better job focusing on finding and deporting illegal aliens

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Friday, June 28, 2019 2:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Who are "they", and what are "they all" doing? I'm not kdding; that's a serious question.

"They" are hostile foreign governments. What are "they" doing? Not much, just some

Invading/occupying other countries
Sponsoring terrorism w/ weapons and money
Harboring terrorist groups
Sponsoring cyber terrorism … banking, nuclear plants, electric grids, porn searches
Helping Demotards get elected
Making/selling nukes and chemical weapons

Quote:
What do we need to counter, that requires our aircraft carriers, bombers, and troops?

Like The Boy Scouts say "Be prepared."
Like Teddy Roosevelt said " Speak softly and carry a big nuclear bomb."
Like Bela Oxmyx said "Most cooperative man I know is a dead man."

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Friday, June 28, 2019 3:02 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Who are "they", and what are "they all" doing? I'm not kdding; that's a serious question. - SIGNY

"They" are hostile foreign governments. What are "they" doing? Not much, just some

Invading/occupying other countries

The USA? If not- so what?

Quote:
Sponsoring terrorism w/ weapons and money

In the USA? If not - so what?

Quote:
Harboring terrorist groups

In the USA? If not- so what?

Quote:
Sponsoring cyber terrorism … banking, nuclear plants, electric grids, porn searches

In the USA? If not- so what?

Quote:
Helping Demotards get elected

Hey! I thought that was RUSSIA!RUSSIA!RUSSIA! (In reality, it's Israel.)

Quote:
Making/selling nukes and chemical weapons

Except for N Korea ... no, sorry. That's as big a non-issue as RUSSIA!RUSSIA!RUSSIA!

Quote:
What do we need to counter, that requires our aircraft carriers, bombers, and troops?- SIGNY
Like The Boy Scouts say "Be prepared."

For what?

Quote:
Like Teddy Roosevelt said " Speak softly and carry a big nuclear bomb."

Already doing that. Why invade other nations?

Quote:
Like Bela Oxmyx said "Most cooperative man I know is a dead man."

Kill 'em all? Is THAT your plan?

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Friday, June 28, 2019 4:05 PM

I'm going to put an explainer here on just HOW FUCKING BAD yesterday's move was. This is all going to get into some very dark literal nazi accounting type shit, so if you're triggered by humans being discussed like cattle you've been warned. Also I use ICE but include CBP for much of this too.

Here's what happens if ICE runs out of money before the first:

The federal government goes into 'skeleton crew mode'. This means they all but stop workplace raids, they stop investigations, and basically arrests just go down significantly because they have to reduce staff and they're responsible for custody, including state custodial laws. Federal contractors get promissory notes saying they'll be paid in the future and everyone treats those as good as cash because they don't want to kill a cherry 5 year contract just because the feds are a few months late.

So why is this happening? The office of budget management basically tries to help guide the executive along with a ton of other agencies in similar roles in how to spend money. It's a pretty simple equation, for every person you arrest and every family you separate, you need to have a place to put them and people to watch them, and thus you need a pipeline that's fairly consistent. Ironically the Nazis understood this which is why their records and lines were horrifyingly efficient (brought to you by IBM).

Trump however basically just routinely tells ICE and CBP to just arrest everyone and he's giving them insane quotas and leeway on the arrest side but because their staffing is static, this means he's fucked up and created a bottle neck. The bottle neck means they're constantly short staffed on the detention side and there's literally just not enough human bodies to staff the concentration camps. Whenever Trump finds them extra cash, he tosses it straight to capture.

So the Democrats created a message about the abhorrent conditions due to all these issues and they brought up toothpaste and soap. McConnell began devising a plan and had his people begin a call to action. Democrats did the same thing too. The democrats created a funding bill in which detainees/prisoners would be required to be fed every 48 hours at a bare minimum, they'd be required to be given soap and basic hygeine items to combat the rampant flu outbreak sending people to the ICU, and most importantly that ICE would freeze it's 'bed count' and not put a dime towards expanding the concentration camps and that they only hold people for 3 months. The bill doesn't even stop ICE, it just forces them to process people faster and give humane conditions for those being processed. It even paid for judges to do faster processing.

McConnell had his people send out the message that specifying how the cash gets spent was a poison pill and that the president needs 'flexibility'. The problem with that beyond all the moral issues of supporting ICE at all, is that from a logistical standpoint every dollar ICE has that is not bolted to the floor is going straight towards arrests, intelligence (to help arrest), and investigations. The Senate, including 30ish senate democrats who are morons, passed a clean bill that only ties 10m to something you can sue over (10m in medical consumable goods). Everything else is in totally vague categories like 'transportation' which legally could include expanding arrests capacity. These words are not defined in the bill.

The bill is 3 pages long, with the first pages delineating 2b dollars to the military. For comparison, the last appropriations bill I really absorbed involved food stamps and had 20 pages of stipulations and definitions to explain how the money gets apportioned. This bill basically has a page. It ALSO includes language to give the ability for the DHS secretary to change and redirect where the loosely described categories get spent WITHOUT congressional approval, they just need to submit a report about their changes to the appropriations committee but they do not require permission.

At the same time this blank check senate bill passes, the problem solvers caucus, who's only job is to literally refuse to ever allow any budget deadline to fail, organized enough democrats in the house to block revisions to the senate bill and to approve the senate version, not the initial house version. They told Pelosi this was non-negotiable and they wouldn't hold another vote, and that if Dems fought this they'd collectively tell the press that Democrats whine about soap but are unwilling to fund it. Pelosi caved after Pence promised to inform dems within a day that they killed someone rather than now where they just refuse to report it which they're required to do by federal law and better yet, and in a stunning 'what the fuck' called a vote on something that was so bad a majority of her own party wouldn't vote for it. Oh also, Pence wasn't willing to put that promise in the actual bill. It's just a straight up hand shake promise. This was so egregious two dem house reps publicly denounced No Labels/problem solvers caucus and have left it.

So now what? More than likely Trump is going to just toss as much of this cash as he can into expanding ICE's arrests yet again, and we'll be back in a few months. Any kid that would have died with the bill.

The kicker is that we had a government shutdown for weeks over a 5.7b dollar wall bill and it happened WHILE Republicans owned the house, but the democrats when they have power voted for a 4.5b dollar blank check in less than 4 days.

The ultimate irony here is the Democrats were terrified of not passing this bill because in their minds, Republicans going to the press and saying "Look at these babies Trump killed! It's the democrats' fault for not helping Trump!" would make them look bad and not the Republicans. I can't emphasize enough, this bill will not save a single kid and it will likely kill more than would be dead otherwise unless Trump magically stops deciding to continue doing what he's done the whole time but there's no indication of that.

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Friday, June 28, 2019 5:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Meh - start to figure out the best way to handle this by asking yourself: what kind of country do you want to have? - CC

Well! Funny you should ask! It's a question I've been trying to get ppl address for the past three years. Maybe longer! - SIGNY

Your answer will tell you. Trump's and Miller's choice for a solution of sadism and hatred may "work" given enough time - they have even (pretty cleverly) tricked the Democrats to go full on demagogue, as well as enlist the MSM to amplify their plan of Fear - but for me, no. That's not my solution because that's not the country I want to have. I will never support their sadism and bigotry as a solution. Not only unreliable for the end result and what price we will pay for it, it's the weakest motivation - base level hatred of another human. That is not the America I want, and it's pretty sad to see so many comfortable Americans being so comfortable with it. We're all here enjoying the possibilities of this country because at some point in our ancestral chain, we were helped to be here. - CC

Okay, I don't know about this "hatred" of other people that you seem to think drives any attempt at immigration control. Maybe if I tell you ... for the 20th time ... what kind of country I want it may sink in. First of all ... the government's FIRST obligation is to its citizens, NOT "the world". - SIGNY

And sorry to disappoint, but I'm not a fan of open borders - that's insane. In fact, I would definitely change our policy on Seeking Asylum. Just getting a foot on US soil so that you can get in the asylum pipeline is a ludicrous. No wonder people are rushing here and crossing any way they can. - CC
'K, where to start?

I posted a long and very unclear explanation about my thoughts on foreign policy etc, but I guess I'll start here, and differently:

WHY do people feel compelled to "help" illegal ~~migrants~~?

Aliens
Quote:

Do they feel that "we" (as a nation) are somehow at fault?
Do they feel that America is "supposed to" stand for something better?
Or are they simply reacting to a shared Hispanic/Muslim/fill in ethnicity here and want "their" tribe to get some of the benefits of living and working here?
This is one aspect, but a start with those 3.
4. The camraderie of Outlaws, all Illegal Outlaws being in brotherhood, those refusing to obey laws, incapable of obeying laws, and refusing to abide the Constitution. These share the code-word "Democrat"
5. Those intentionally working to evade the Constitution for purely political purposes/gain - to maximize the fraudulent Voting which gets them elected (meaning Democrats).

That #5 might not fit into "feel compelled" but more "need to"

The other side: why do some people NOT support Illegal Aliens?
1. As Law-abiding Citizens, they feel everybody should obey Laws,and The Constitution.
2. They believe nobody should be allowed to immigrate. I don't know if this category actually exists, but just in case Libtards find an example, it is here in the list.
3. They believe Immigration should be fair, balanced, equal opportunity. Actual Asylum Seekers and those trying to legal improve their lot in life from Europe, Asia, Africa, Americas, all of the 193 other nations in the world, should not be forced to wait in legal line behind all of the Illegal Aliens cutting into the front of the line, just because their country shares a land border.
4.. They do not believe the Nation should be polluted with the likes of those whose first act is to commit crimes against America, against Americans. This is not part of the Social Contract, and most feel that those refusing to abide the Social Contract should be ostracised, not coddled.

Quote:

To the first question, I say that yes, America has a moral culpability for many of the migrant crises in our southern hemisphere and across the Middle East. We have "intervened" so many times thru so many decdes... bombed, invaded, destabilized, armed and fostered genocide, fomented civil wars, destroyed so much infrastructure, uprooted the livelihoods and cultures of so many ... that, yes, we DO shoulder quite a bit of blame for the poverty, trauma, and homelessness of many peoples. HOWEVER, it seems to me that the answer to THAT conundrum is not to succor the people that we broke. The answer is to stop breaking so many people.

To the second question, I think that responsiblity must equal authority and capability. You can't expect a person, entity, or nation, to solve a problem that is beyond it's legal authority or financial, etc capability. If you have stopped creating havoc and poverty throughout the world, then you are not morally oblgated to solve problems that are not only not of your own making, but are also beyond your capacity to fix. The only obligation that a nation has is to its own citizens living within its borders because that is the arena over which a nation has control.

If OTOH you're simply reacting to your "tribe" then I would say: Go back to where you came from, because your loyalty to your country of origin is obviously greater than your loyalty to your fellow citizens.

*****

AFA what to do with the border crisis.... The problem is that once a person is apprehended and put into custody, they become the resonsibility of the federal government, so the answer is to either deport them or decide their case as quickly as possible.

I would simply straightaway deport anyone who entered illegally who passed thru Mexico on their way here. Their only real reason to stay here legally is because they asked for asylum. But if they've already passed through another nation (or two, or three) wherethey COULD have asked for asylum, then asylum is obviously not their main goal and they are for all practical purposes an economic migrant, not any asylee.

Make people wait at the official entry points for requesting asylum.

Re-set asylum to only cover the original definition of POLITICAL asylum, which means that the government is following an overt or tacit policy of violence against your particular group (and BTW gender doesn't count) not because of generalized violence and poverty.

I would speed up the hearing process by making uniform categories for judges to use. There aren't THAT many unique cases in the hundreds of thousands of requests; it seems to me that almost all request would fall into just a few categories and could be decided quickly after a series of standardized questions.

****

But overall, I would do the following:

1) Get rid of the birthright citizenship clause of the 14th amendment
2) Make English the official language of the USA
3) Follow a non-interventionist foreign policy, and that means no sanctions, no destabilizations, no wars, no electoral interference in other nations
4) The above changes to our sylum process
5) End destructive "free trade" agreements

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Friday, June 28, 2019 6:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
I'm going to put an explainer here on just HOW FUCKING BAD yesterday's move was. This is all going to get into some very dark literal nazi accounting type shit, so if you're triggered by humans being discussed like cattle you've been warned.

Hey, yanno... They could always just stay in whatever Socialist shithole they came from.

I don't remember ever hearing about anybody going to their countries and bringing them here.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 29, 2019 3:58 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I'm going to put an explainer here on just HOW FUCKING BAD yesterday's move was

What move was that?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Saturday, June 29, 2019 6:53 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Hey, yanno... They could always just stay in whatever Socialist shithole they came from.

Um... it's because they were in shit hole countries they come here. Build a great country and they will come... duh. People in countries that Trump wants to entice here would have their version of ICE roust his fat ass out of bed a 5am and kick him to the curb.

One of the problems with Trump's "solution" is it's all stick and no carrot. And that should be a dead give away it's more about hatred than economics or actual problem solving, or just a blunt political tool his celebrity wank fanbase will drool over.

It truly is a divine irony: He wants to attract smart white people but all he gets are dumb, white hillbillys and desperate brown people from the countries he hates! Talk about rich! The universe has a dark sense of humor sometimes.

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Saturday, June 29, 2019 7:25 AM

lol. So that's the route you're going to take again. The only white people who didn't vote for Hillary are uneducated idiot rednecks.

You're so one dimensional that you can't even be seen anymore unless you're under a microscope.

I look forward to your huge cry session and further subsequent breakdown in 2020.

By the way... my point that you obviously missed here was that none of these people would be held in detention centers if they didn't knowingly break the law. Nobody went to their countries and forcibly rounded them up.

You'd think that by now they'd just stop coming over. Either that, or the so-called "concentration camps" we have here are actually better than everyday life in their own shithole Socialist countries.

I mean, maybe that's the case. It's no secret there are actual American citizens who have it so bad that they intentionally break laws to get three hots and a cot in jail on the taxpayer dime because that's better than living on the street. Why doesn't somebody ask them? I've never actually heard their opinion about it once. I've only heard rich and entitled crybaby Americans virtue signalling on the issue.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 29, 2019 6:43 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
One of the problems with Trump's "solution" is it's all stick and no carrot.-CC

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

It's a truism that if you want to "stop" ppl from doing something, you punish them.
If you want people to "do" something, you reward them.

How in god's name do you set up a "reward" system that stops people from illegally crossing the border?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Saturday, June 29, 2019 8:36 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
One of the problems with Trump's "solution" is it's all stick and no carrot.-CC
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

It's a truism that if you want to "stop" ppl from doing something, you punish them.
If you want people to "do" something, you reward them.

How in god's name do you set up a "reward" system that stops people from illegally crossing the border?

Many Trump officials agree that development aid for Central America is important to address “root causes” of migration. Trump does not. He cut aid.

In the grand scheme of the federal budget, we’re not talking about a ton of money. The reported $700 million the State Department is now cutting off is substantially less than the $1 billion the Pentagon just scooped out of a military personnel account to give to DHS for 57 miles of border wall.

What makes the aid funding important, though, is that — unlike the border wall — a lot of people in both parties agree that it’s needed to reduce migration to the US in the long term, by getting at the “root causes” of why people leave.

With Central American families coming in unprecedented numbers and overwhelming a US immigration system not designed to care for vulnerable people, a lasting solution seems appealing to both immigration hawks (who see it as a good-cop complement to harsher treatment and less leniency for migrants once they arrive) and immigration doves (who see it as a substitute).

The article goes on to explain what Trump's people don't know about what they are doing, don't know why what they do doesn't work, and are not interested in learning. www.vox.com/2019/4/1/18290443/aid-central-america-mexico-guatemala-imm
igration-border

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, June 29, 2019 8:56 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
lol. So that's the route you're going to take again. The only white people who didn't vote for Hillary are uneducated idiot rednecks.

Completely misses the joke and goes right to whiny little b....
You're right though - he attracks all manner of scum, not just da rednecks - my bad.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
You're so one dimensional that you can't even be seen anymore unless you're under a microscope.

Ouch! You should write comedy.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I look forward to your huge cry session and further subsequent breakdown in 2020.

I already said he was going to win, da.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
By the way... my point that you obviously missed here was that none of these people would be held in detention centers if they didn't knowingly break the law. Nobody went to their countries and forcibly rounded them up.

Dumb as dirt. The answert is right in front of you. You even type right up to it.... and then? Zero.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
You'd think that by now they'd just stop coming over. Either that, or the so-called "concentration camps" we have here are actually better than everyday life in their own shithole Socialist countries.

Riiiiight, and so therefore....your conclusion should be...? Nope, still a block of concrete.

I think you're just afraid and jealous and pissed they might end up with a better life than you have.

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Saturday, June 29, 2019 9:02 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
One of the problems with Trump's "solution" is it's all stick and no carrot.-CC
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

It's a truism that if you want to "stop" ppl from doing something, you punish them.
If you want people to "do" something, you reward them.

How in god's name do you set up a "reward" system that stops people from illegally crossing the border?

Another Einstein checks in. I dunno, geenius, just off the top of my head maybe you use the carrot to get people to legally cross the border? That's what you want, right? Unless of course, you don't want that as well.

Don't freak - that will never happen with this admin. They don't want ANY immigrants from Mexico on down either, so you're "safe."

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Saturday, June 29, 2019 9:32 PM

lol

Nothing more than that needs to be said.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, June 30, 2019 2:38 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Another Einstein checks in. I dunno, geenius, just off the top of my head maybe you use the carrot to get people to legally cross the border? That's what you want, right?

Not really. IF you had read my post about what I want for this nation, the answer is ... only legitimate political asylum-seekers.

Quote:
Unless of course, you don't want that as well.

Well, give the man a gold star! IF we manage to stop interfering everywhere in the world, we can stop feeling responsible for all of the damage that we've done. (Yes, I know ... there are some people who still naively believe that we're on some sort of fucking worldwide mission of mercy. HAHAHAHA!!!)

We do not have the means to solve the world's problems, nor do we have the means to take in an infinite number of impoverished people. Hell, we can't even take care of our own homeless, mentally ill, unemployed, sick people who've been squeezed out of our ever-so-gracious system!

WHY for god's sake do we think we can, or should, take care of "everyone else"? IF we can manage to solve OUR problems ... and so far, we haven't done such a bang-up job, have we? ... THEN we might have a clue how to solve someone else's. So far, all we're doing is creating desperate exploitable people and then importing them into the USA for the corporations' convenience.

Cheap foreign labor, right at your doorstep!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Sunday, June 30, 2019 3:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So far, all we're doing is creating desperate exploitable people and then importing them into the USA for the corporations' convenience.

We're doing more than that. We're creating desperate exploitable citizens who are in competition with cheaper foreign labor, automation and all of the illegals we take into the country.

Then to top that all off, we gimp our own people by not even bothering to teach them the Metric System. Dollars to donuts that 95% or more of the people sitting in "concentration camps" right now know how to use the Metric System.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, June 30, 2019 3:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So far, all we're doing is creating desperate exploitable people and then importing them into the USA for the corporations' convenience.

We're doing more than that. We're creating desperate exploitable citizens who are in competition with cheaper foreign labor, automation and all of the illegals we take into the country.

Then to top that all off, we gimp our own people by not even bothering to teach them the Metric System in their formative years. Dollars to donuts that 95% or more of the people sitting in "concentration camps" right now know how to use the Metric System and have been using it all of their lives.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, June 30, 2019 3:28 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So far, all we're doing is creating desperate exploitable people and then importing them into the USA for the corporations' convenience.

We're doing more than that. We're creating desperate exploitable citizens who are in competition with cheaper foreign labor, automation and all of the illegals we take into the country.

Then to top that all off, we gimp our own people by not even bothering to teach them the Metric System in their formative years. Dollars to donuts that 95% or more of the people sitting in "concentration camps" right now know how to use the Metric System and have been using it all of their lives.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Indeed.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Sunday, June 30, 2019 7:17 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
lol
Nothing more than that needs to be said.

Right - time for Jack to runaway again. He gets close to explaining to himself why people are so desperate and willing to endure extreme conditions, even death, to come here and then he goes turtle as usual.

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Sunday, June 30, 2019 7:18 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So far, all we're doing is creating desperate exploitable people and then importing them into the USA for the corporations' convenience.

We're doing more than that. We're creating desperate exploitable citizens who are in competition with cheaper foreign labor, automation and all of the illegals we take into the country.

Then to top that all off, we gimp our own people by not even bothering to teach them the Metric System in their formative years. Dollars to donuts that 95% or more of the people sitting in "concentration camps" right now know how to use the Metric System and have been using it all of their lives.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Yup - the f*cking metric system! That's the real problem!

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Sunday, June 30, 2019 7:36 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Another Einstein checks in. I dunno, geenius, just off the top of my head maybe you use the carrot to get people to legally cross the border? That's what you want, right?
Not really. IF you had read my post about what I want for this nation, the answer is ... only legitimate political asylum-seekers.

You mean... legal immigrants? Like I just said?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Unless of course, you don't want that as well.
Well, give the man a gold star! IF we manage to stop interfering everywhere in the world, we can stop feeling responsible for all of the damage that we've done. (Yes, I know ... there are some people who still naively believe that we're on some sort of fucking worldwide mission of mercy. HAHAHAHA!!!)

Wait, so you really don't want any immigration allowed to this country? Close the borders for good? (except "legitimate political asylum-seekers," whoever that is. I'm sure the definition of that will be interesting).

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
We do not have the means to solve the world's problems,

When you speak in such broad generalizations you lose credibility.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
nor do we have the means to take in an infinite number of impoverished people.

We're not trying to take in an infinite number of people.
When you speak nonsense and make sh*t up you lose all credibility.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Hell, we can't even take care of our own homeless, mentally ill, unemployed, sick people who've been squeezed out of our ever-so-gracious system!

Maybe we should make them emigrate! That would solve the problem!

When you think the solution to such enormous problems are a couple of pithy sentences on a forum, you lose all credibility.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
WHY for god's sake do we think we can, or should, take care of "everyone else"?

Who is "we?" The phony big bad you're trying to create?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
IF we can manage to solve OUR problems ... and so far, we haven't done such a bang-up job, have we? ... THEN we might have a clue how to solve someone else's. So far, all we're doing is creating desperate exploitable people and then importing them into the USA for the corporations' convenience.

How many immigrants have become successful, valuable US citizens that you/other citizens have benefitted from having in this country? Don't you employ non-native nannies? Uh-huh. Do you buy produce of any kind... on and on. You don't even know how.

This post of yours has no substance, all recycled BS. You're not really thinking, just typing the usual crud.

Filing under: Just talking out of her @ss or running up her post count.

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Sunday, June 30, 2019 7:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Yup - the f*cking metric system! That's the real problem!

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Sunday, June 30, 2019 7:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Yup - the f*cking metric system! That's the real problem!

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Sunday, June 30, 2019 7:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Then to top that all off, we gimp our own people by not even bothering to teach them the Metric System in their formative years. Dollars to donuts that 95% or more of the people sitting in "concentration camps" right now know how to use the Metric System and have been using it all of their lives.

Yup - the f*cking metric system! That's the real problem!

Everything is bigger and better with the Metric System! You drive your car over 100 all the time, no problem, might even become a race car driver or a State Trooper. And every guy can be a porn star, with average willies over 20. Carter wanted Metric, but America said no. How provincial!

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Sunday, June 30, 2019 9:53 AM

The US declining to adopt the Metric system when every single other country in the world already had was only a "smart" idea before the global economy kicked off.

We're raising our kids to be retards on the world stage now.

Anybody who actually laughs about this and doesn't think it's a major problem should have their judgement and all of their opinions about anything considered highly suspect.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, June 30, 2019 10:01 AM