REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 4, 2024 13:16
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Sunday, February 4, 2024 2:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Replacing romex with conduit? Ouch! That's a big job on a house with finished walls. I'd be sticking to the basement.



-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Sunday, February 4, 2024 2:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


We went out like planned, but dear daughter didn't have as much fun as hoped because she wasn't feeling very well. We still haven't managed to disentangle what's going on with her, altho we've got some of her symptoms partly controlled. Pursuing the problem with Dr Neuro and Dr GI for now.

Im still slated for surgery on the 22nd and currently on Cipro and steroids, hoping that cools things down in my nose and sinuses. I would rather be on IV antibiotics bc my current combo can wreak havoc on tendons, and I've just recently started jogging wuth the dog and I hate to think of cutting back. Also bc steroids I'm really having to watch my diet. I gained 5 lbs on the last round that I'm still trying to lose, that's bad enough. I don't want to gain another 5!

*****

Still waiting for The Big Rain. "Any moment now!" the forecasters have been saying for ... at least a day. It's been scaled back from 7" over 5 days to 5" over 3 days.

A lot of rain over a short time.
They say.
But when i look at the radar and how the storm is moving, instead of at the model's forecast, i think it's goin to hit north of us, on the OTHER side of the San Gabriels.

As I drove by the San Gabriel River recharge basins I noticed they had been freshly prepared. They scrape off any deposits of silt and clay to make percolation more efficient, and there was even a Bobcat still working down there yesterday.
They also like to clean out the culverts and storm drains and release water from behind the dams. But so far the dams across the river were just puddly and the settling ponds and recharge basins were dry, dry, dry. Despite the 2" of rain we got last Thursday.

My "rain gage" is out, the channel is freshly dug, and the downspout extendrrs are down.

So, still waiting!!!


-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Sunday, February 4, 2024 6:56 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Replacing romex with conduit? Ouch! That's a big job on a house with finished walls. I'd be sticking to the basement.


Nah. I think for the most part I've lucked out on that. Can't say what the attic looks like, but the 1st and 2nd floor I verified was all conduit when I was going along and replacing outlets/switches and doing fixes on the bad ones that didn't sit right.

At least in the one room that I painted in the basement, the outlets that were up high weren't romex. I'm not too happy that they were flex conduit, TBH, but it's better than romex anyhow. At least you've got ground. (Well... now you do anyways... You don't have ground when the people installing that stuff don't clamp the rings tight inside the boxes... more on that below...)

It appears that most of that romex from the buried junction box in the basement bathroom was for the can lights and two boxes that were likely going to be for plug outlets on either side of a vanity. Lazy, stupid shit that idiots do, is what that is... I'm going to eventually rip out that soffit with the can lights, so I'll just take that whole damn wall down at some point and do all that electric the right way whenever I get to it.



Mostly good news with the house mapping today.

Bad news first...

1. The entire 2nd floor bathroom, the entire 2nd floor small bedroom, the overhead light and half of the outlets in the 2nd floor master bedroom and the entire attic are all on a single circuit. This includes my furnace/blower that is in the attic. WTF, right?

Fortunately, 2 outlets in the Master Bedroom are on a separate circuit that has much less use, and one of those was where I plug in my single window A/C unit that cools off the entire house in the summer.

Also, fortunately, should I chose to move the furnace blower to another circuit, I do have pretty easy access to the chandelier/3-way switch setup between the stairs going up to the 2nd floor that I could tap into. That circuit isn't exactly empty, but it's got a lot less attached to it than the current one.

Funny thing is though, I practically live in my living room so I've never really put that circuit through its paces all the years I've lived here. But that furnace is ancient and the house never burnt down before I got here so it's probably fine as it is. The fact that we use 8 watt LED bulbs these days can only make it even less of an issue.


2. There have been 4 outlets that weren't properly grounded in the basement, and 2 outlets that have the polarity wrong (hot and neutral swapped). I never used any of those outlets for anything since I've been here, except for the dryer. The dryer is grounded, but it's one of the reversed polarity issues (not a huge deal with an old dryer, but you wouldn't want to have anything remotely sensitive like a computer or a charging cell phone plugged into that outlet). I fixed the ground on two of them already today while I was installing the new decorator switches and plates. I'll get to all the other issues as I go along.




And for the good news...

1. None of the outlets in the attic were without ground or had their polarity swapped.

2. None of the outlets I updated and fixed on the 1st and 2nd floors were without ground or had their polarity swapped.

3. The existing sump pump is sharing a circuit with only one other thing. The garbage disposal unit in my kitchen sink. The dishwasher was also on that circuit before I removed it during the kitchen remodel.

4. I mentioned before that I could tap into another circuit from either of the 2 circuits that were in the 3 switch panel going down into the basement for my 2nd sump well. I will be doing that. The circuit that currently goes down there is light, but it would be the one used for a 2nd furnace should I choose to put one on the slab one day.

But the circuit used for the other two light switches that control the 4 can lights and the bare junction box that would be used for a ceiling fan in the center of the room is free otherwise. I can easily tap into this one and direct it into the crawl for the 2nd sump well.

5. I have my choice of 2 circuits for a heat pump in that recently finished room. One does have a bit of a load on it, but not too bad. The 2nd choice has only 2 outlets on it that I never use. That one would be ideal, obviously, but I wouldn't be able to install the pump where either outlet is located because there's not enough room for it. I would have to destroy quite a bit of the wall and go over a window to get it where it needs to go. If I can put it on the circuit where the other two outlets I don't use are already located however, it will be a very easy job someday. I just need to figure out how much other stuff you can have on a circuit with a heat pump before I made that choice.

6. In the basement "bedroom" at the far end, I have my choice of 3 circuits. 2 of them which are the easiest to use already have other things on them, unfortunately, but one of them doesn't have too much. (Again, I need to find out how much I can get away with here).

If neither of them will work out, there is a 3rd circuit to that room that only controls the switch to the 4 can lights in that room and the ceiling fan, and a single plug outlet in the hallway just outside of the room. It would require me to destroy part of the ceiling and the wall to get that circuit where it needs to go, but that's always a fallback option.


7. If I ever decided to add a central A/C unit back into the mix, I could easily get it from the fairly light circuit that I've already been using for my window A/C unit. Nothing I plan on doing any time soon, but it's always an option for me now.




So I've pretty much mapped out my entire house now.

I do want to finish mapping out the garage and the back porch/shed, since they have 2 circuits each, but it's not high priority at the moment. I already know which 2 circuits go to each since I did all that work myself the last two summers, but I will eventually get around to mapping all the outlets/switches for my documentation.


VERY productive day today even though it doesn't really feel like it.

I've got some homework to do now.









--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Sunday, February 4, 2024 11:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Nah. I think for the most part I've lucked out on that. Can't say what the attic looks like, but the 1st and 2nd floor I verified was all conduit when I was going along and replacing outlets/switches and doing fixes on the bad ones that didn't sit right.

At least in the one room that I painted in the basement, the outlets that were up high weren't romex. I'm not too happy that they were flex conduit, TBH, but it's better than romex anyhow. At least you've got ground. (Well... now you do anyways... You don't have ground when the people installing that stuff don't clamp the rings tight inside the boxes... more on that below...)

It appears that most of that romex from the buried junction box in the basement bathroom was for the can lights and two boxes that were likely going to be for plug outlets on either side of a vanity. Lazy, stupid shit that idiots do, is what that is... I'm going to eventually rip out that soffit with the can lights, so I'll just take that whole damn wall down at some point and do all that electric the right way whenever I get to it.

Whew!

Quote:
Mostly good news with the house mapping today.

Bad news first...

1. The entire 2nd floor bathroom, the entire 2nd floor small bedroom, the overhead light and half of the outlets in the 2nd floor master bedroom and the entire attic are all on a single circuit. This includes my furnace/blower that is in the attic. WTF, right?
1 bathroom: overhead light, vanity light, powered fan(?), and two outlets. Small bathroom: overhead light, vanity light, and one outlet? Master bedroom: overhead light, and appx 3 outlets. If everything is on all at once, depending on what's plugged into the outlets, I think you could be exceeding 20 amps.
Add the attic and especially the furnace blower? Seems like a heavily laden circuit.

Quote:
Fortunately, 2 outlets in the Master Bedroom are on a separate circuit that has much less use, and one of those was where I plug in my single window A/C unit that cools off the entire house in the summer.
That's good! Any idea what else in on that circuit? If it's lightly loaded, maybe use that one?

Quote:
Also, fortunately, should I chose to move the furnace blower to another circuit, I do have pretty easy access to the chandelier/3-way switch setup between the stairs going up to the 2nd floor that I could tap into. That circuit isn't exactly empty, but it's got a lot less attached to it than the current one.
Or, that one!

Quote:
Funny thing is though, I practically live in my living room so I've never really put that circuit through its paces all the years I've lived here. But that furnace is ancient and the house never burnt down before I got here so it's probably fine as it is. The fact that we use 8 watt LED bulbs these days can only make it even less of an issue.
Indeed. I was assuming old fashioned y100watt incandescent.


Quote:
2. There have been 4 outlets that weren't properly grounded in the basement, and 2 outlets that have the polarity wrong (hot and neutral swapped). I never used any of those outlets for anything since I've been here, except for the dryer. The dryer is grounded, but it's one of the reversed polarity issues (not a huge deal with an old dryer, but you wouldn't want to have anything remotely sensitive like a computer or a charging cell phone plugged into that outlet). I fixed the ground on two of them already today while I was installing the new decorator switches and plates. I'll get to all the other issues as I go along.

Lots of progress!


Quote:
And for the good news...

1. None of the outlets in the attic were without ground or had their polarity swapped.

2. None of the outlets I updated and fixed on the 1st and 2nd floors were without ground or had their polarity swapped.

3. The existing sump pump is sharing a circuit with only one other thing. The garbage disposal unit in my kitchen sink. The dishwasher was also on that circuit before I removed it during the kitchen remodel.

4. I mentioned before that I could tap into another circuit from either of the 2 circuits that were in the 3 switch panel going down into the basement for my 2nd sump well. I will be doing that. The circuit that currently goes down there is light, but it would be the one used for a 2nd furnace should I choose to put one on the slab one day.

But the circuit used for the other two light switches that control the 4 can lights and the bare junction box that would be used for a ceiling fan in the center of the room is free otherwise. I can easily tap into this one and direct it into the crawl for the 2nd sump well.

5. I have my choice of 2 circuits for a heat pump in that recently finished room.
I looked into a heat pump. They are pricey! But knowing how you can find deals, I'd like to know what you find in terms of BTU (or howeithey measure them) and cost.

Quote:
One does have a bit of a load on it, but not too bad. The 2nd choice has only 2 outlets on it that I never use. That one would be ideal, obviously, but I wouldn't be able to install the pump where either outlet is located because there's not enough room for it. I would have to destroy quite a bit of the wall and go over a window to get it where it needs to go. If I can put it on the circuit where the other two outlets I don't use are already located however, it will be a very easy job someday. I just need to figure out how much other stuff you can have on a circuit with a heat pump before I made that choice.

6. In the basement "bedroom" at the far end, I have my choice of 3 circuits. 2 of them which are the easiest to use already have other things on them, unfortunately, but one of them doesn't have too much. (Again, I need to find out how much I can get away with here).

If neither of them will work out, there is a 3rd circuit to that room that only controls the switch to the 4 can lights in that room and the ceiling fan, and a single plug outlet in the hallway just outside of the room. It would require me to destroy part of the ceiling and the wall to get that circuit where it needs to go, but that's always a fallback option.

7. If I ever decided to add a central A/C unit back into the mix, I could easily get it from the fairly light circuit that I've already been using for my window A/C unit. Nothing I plan on doing any time soon, but it's always an option for me now.

So I've pretty much mapped out my entire house now.

I do want to finish mapping out the garage and the back porch/shed, since they have 2 circuits each, but it's not high priority at the moment. I already know which 2 circuits go to each since I did all that work myself the last two summers, but I will eventually get around to mapping all the outlets/switches for my documentation.


VERY productive day today even though it doesn't really feel like it.

I've got some homework to do now.

Sound like you have a lot of options and are thinking ahead.


*****

Well, it did start raining when they predicted and for a while it came down steadily.

So I checked out my drainage system and grading. The downspout was flowing -my guess- at about a gallon or two a minute. Water flowed briskly down the channel to the base of the oak tree mound, and partway around.

And then, it disappeared into a little hole in the ground, and kept ON disappearing and never filling up. let's see.. a gallon a minute for an hour .... That's a considerable hole!

So either a root rotted from a huge tree we had to take down a couple decades ago, or we have an underground stream and/or minor sinkhole.

Something you might be familiar with, SIX!

I suspect it's an underground stream bc we have some subsidence in an area where there were never any trees. Hubby doesn't want to do anything about it, but I feel I need to drill a hole in the subsided sidewalk and at least scope out how big, or small, a problem this is.

Seeing as we're within a mile of a river, I'll betcha dollars to donuts there were a lot of creeks and streams that they built on top of.

Gonna see if I can find some sort of cheap scope and light source.

And then, when it stops raining (in three days) I'm gonna pursue that little hole in the ground that swallowed a lot of water.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Monday, February 5, 2024 12:25 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Nah. I think for the most part I've lucked out on that. Can't say what the attic looks like, but the 1st and 2nd floor I verified was all conduit when I was going along and replacing outlets/switches and doing fixes on the bad ones that didn't sit right.

At least in the one room that I painted in the basement, the outlets that were up high weren't romex. I'm not too happy that they were flex conduit, TBH, but it's better than romex anyhow. At least you've got ground. (Well... now you do anyways... You don't have ground when the people installing that stuff don't clamp the rings tight inside the boxes... more on that below...)

It appears that most of that romex from the buried junction box in the basement bathroom was for the can lights and two boxes that were likely going to be for plug outlets on either side of a vanity. Lazy, stupid shit that idiots do, is what that is... I'm going to eventually rip out that soffit with the can lights, so I'll just take that whole damn wall down at some point and do all that electric the right way whenever I get to it.

Whew!


Yeah. No big deal. I want to get rid of that soffit so nothing is in the way of a dropped ceiling anyhow. The only thing I even use in that bathroom is the toilet when I'm working and dirty and don't want to go upstairs, and I could just put a temporary light on the switch instead of those two can lights. No reason to even think about that now though. It could be many years before I ever get to that bathroom and the basement bedroom. All I wanted to do now was plan for the future with the existing circuits, and that bathroom mess is all on the same circuit no matter what I end up doing with it.

Quote:
Quote:
Mostly good news with the house mapping today.

Bad news first...

1. The entire 2nd floor bathroom, the entire 2nd floor small bedroom, the overhead light and half of the outlets in the 2nd floor master bedroom and the entire attic are all on a single circuit. This includes my furnace/blower that is in the attic. WTF, right?
1 bathroom: overhead light, vanity light, powered fan(?), and two outlets. Small bathroom: overhead light, vanity light, and one outlet? Master bedroom: overhead light, and appx 3 outlets. If everything is on all at once, depending on what's plugged into the outlets, I think you could be exceeding 20 amps.
Add the attic and especially the furnace blower? Seems like a heavily laden circuit.


1 bathroom - Vanity light (4 bulbs). A switch to that and an outlet next to it for my trimmer and toothbrush. That's it right now. I want to put a fan in there too whenever I remodel it. Probably 1 more outlet just to have it too.

Small bedroom - Switch to overhead light. 3 outlets.

Master Bedroom - Switch to overhead light. 1 outlet. (The other two are on the other circuit)

Attic - 3 switches to 3 overhead lights. 5 outlets. (Really though... hardly ever used)

And the Furnace blower.

Yeah... It's a lot of shit on one circuit. Not going to knock down walls to change any of it though. The house is about 20 years older than I am though and survived at least 2 other families before I moved in and lived here alone. And that was back when they were using 60 watt + light bulbs. I think as long as the future owners aren't using gaming PCs and 70" TVs with surround sound and subwoofers all at the same time in the middle of winter when the furnace is going off all the time they should be alright.

The original walls on the 1st and 2nd floor didn't have a ton of outlets. That's what you get when the house was built as long ago as this one was. I've put a lot more outlets in the porch and the garage for sure.

Quote:
Quote:
Fortunately, 2 outlets in the Master Bedroom are on a separate circuit that has much less use, and one of those was where I plug in my single window A/C unit that cools off the entire house in the summer.
That's good! Any idea what else in on that circuit? If it's lightly loaded, maybe use that one?


Not off the top of my head, it's on my paperwork. It's not that much though. Going to keep that one as it is though... That's the one that I'd tap into if I wanted to put central A/C back in the mix, and I wouldn't have to use it for my window unit anymore.

Quote:
Quote:
Also, fortunately, should I chose to move the furnace blower to another circuit, I do have pretty easy access to the chandelier/3-way switch setup between the stairs going up to the 2nd floor that I could tap into. That circuit isn't exactly empty, but it's got a lot less attached to it than the current one.
Or, that one!


Yeah. That would be the one. The only thing is that I use the hell out of that circuit in the living room. There's only 2 outlets in the living room that use it as well as the two 3-way switches and the chandelier going upstairs. But my TV, video game systems, a computer, my router, my cordless phones, my printer and various other electronics are all charged on them. I even plug my curio cabinet that I rigged up with two plugs in that, and it's used to charge small electronics and the LED lights for my closets. I also have my 6 battery charger stationed there for my cordless tools.



Quote:
Quote:
Funny thing is though, I practically live in my living room so I've never really put that circuit through its paces all the years I've lived here. But that furnace is ancient and the house never burnt down before I got here so it's probably fine as it is. The fact that we use 8 watt LED bulbs these days can only make it even less of an issue.
Indeed. I was assuming old fashioned y100watt incandescent.


Nah. At one point I thought about getting ceiling fans, but I don't want 'em. I only have a single 8watt LED in each bedroom on the ceiling now. It's not bright enough, but whenever I patch and repaint the ceiling I have much nicer 2-bulb fixtures to install that I bought a few years back for a great price. I'll probably go for something a little brighter than the 60 watt equivalent too, so maybe 20-25 watts total for each ceiling light? The vanity in the bathroom uses 32 watts with 4 bulbs.


Quote:
Quote:
2. There have been 4 outlets that weren't properly grounded in the basement, and 2 outlets that have the polarity wrong (hot and neutral swapped). I never used any of those outlets for anything since I've been here, except for the dryer. The dryer is grounded, but it's one of the reversed polarity issues (not a huge deal with an old dryer, but you wouldn't want to have anything remotely sensitive like a computer or a charging cell phone plugged into that outlet). I fixed the ground on two of them already today while I was installing the new decorator switches and plates. I'll get to all the other issues as I go along.

Lots of progress!


Yeah. Always fixing somebody else's mess.


Quote:
Quote:
And for the good news...

1. None of the outlets in the attic were without ground or had their polarity swapped.

2. None of the outlets I updated and fixed on the 1st and 2nd floors were without ground or had their polarity swapped.

3. The existing sump pump is sharing a circuit with only one other thing. The garbage disposal unit in my kitchen sink. The dishwasher was also on that circuit before I removed it during the kitchen remodel.

4. I mentioned before that I could tap into another circuit from either of the 2 circuits that were in the 3 switch panel going down into the basement for my 2nd sump well. I will be doing that. The circuit that currently goes down there is light, but it would be the one used for a 2nd furnace should I choose to put one on the slab one day.

But the circuit used for the other two light switches that control the 4 can lights and the bare junction box that would be used for a ceiling fan in the center of the room is free otherwise. I can easily tap into this one and direct it into the crawl for the 2nd sump well.

5. I have my choice of 2 circuits for a heat pump in that recently finished room.
I looked into a heat pump. They are pricey! But knowing how you can find deals, I'd like to know what you find in terms of BTU (or howeithey measure them) and cost.


Yeah. I never priced one before. When I'd first heard of them about 4 or 5 years ago the guy on the youtube video didn't name a price but he said he installed one in his house and his garage on his own and it wasn't too expensive. But everything is expensive today.

Quote:
Quote:
One does have a bit of a load on it, but not too bad. The 2nd choice has only 2 outlets on it that I never use. That one would be ideal, obviously, but I wouldn't be able to install the pump where either outlet is located because there's not enough room for it. I would have to destroy quite a bit of the wall and go over a window to get it where it needs to go. If I can put it on the circuit where the other two outlets I don't use are already located however, it will be a very easy job someday. I just need to figure out how much other stuff you can have on a circuit with a heat pump before I made that choice.

6. In the basement "bedroom" at the far end, I have my choice of 3 circuits. 2 of them which are the easiest to use already have other things on them, unfortunately, but one of them doesn't have too much. (Again, I need to find out how much I can get away with here).

If neither of them will work out, there is a 3rd circuit to that room that only controls the switch to the 4 can lights in that room and the ceiling fan, and a single plug outlet in the hallway just outside of the room. It would require me to destroy part of the ceiling and the wall to get that circuit where it needs to go, but that's always a fallback option.

7. If I ever decided to add a central A/C unit back into the mix, I could easily get it from the fairly light circuit that I've already been using for my window A/C unit. Nothing I plan on doing any time soon, but it's always an option for me now.

So I've pretty much mapped out my entire house now.

I do want to finish mapping out the garage and the back porch/shed, since they have 2 circuits each, but it's not high priority at the moment. I already know which 2 circuits go to each since I did all that work myself the last two summers, but I will eventually get around to mapping all the outlets/switches for my documentation.


VERY productive day today even though it doesn't really feel like it.

I've got some homework to do now.

Sound like you have a lot of options and are thinking ahead.


That's what the day was all about. Most of that info probably won't be used for years. But I will be getting that circuit down into the crawlspace for the 2nd sump well soon.

Quote:
*****

Well, it did start raining when they predicted and for a while it came down steadily.

So I checked out my drainage system and grading. The downspout was flowing -my guess- at about a gallon or two a minute. Water flowed briskly down the channel to the base of the oak tree mound, and partway around.

And then, it disappeared into a little hole in the ground, and kept ON disappearing and never filling up. let's see.. a gallon a minute for an hour .... That's a considerable hole!

So either a root rotted from a huge tree we had to take down a couple decades ago, or we have an underground stream and/or minor sinkhole.

Something you might be familiar with, SIX!

I suspect it's an underground stream bc we have some subsidence in an area where there were never any trees. Hubby doesn't want to do anything about it, but I feel I need to drill a hole in the subsided sidewalk and at least scope out how big, or small, a problem this is.

Seeing as we're within a mile of a river, I'll betcha dollars to donuts there were a lot of creeks and streams that they built on top of.

Gonna see if I can find some sort of cheap scope and light source.

And then, when it stops raining (in three days) I'm gonna pursue that little hole in the ground that swallowed a lot of water.


That's crazy!

Be careful Sigs. Seen some really strange shit about sinkholes on YouTube.


--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Monday, February 5, 2024 10:47 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I don't imagine that I'm going to get too deep into any electric in the crawlspace today, but I think I'm going to start the process anyhow.

Since I already know that it will be easy to tap into that extremely lightly used circuit for the can lights and ceiling in the overlook room, busting out some drywall above the back side of that box and the box behind it where the switches into the crawl space will go is the first step so I can get a small flex conduit tying them together.

I'd like to end the day at least getting the electric down there into a new box. I was considering at one point tying this stuff into the existing box where the light switch already was, but I don't want to even open that thing up. I'm sure there's already enough wires in it and in the conduit that meets up to it, and since the circuit the light is already on is the one that would be for a basement furnace, there's no reason to complicate that box with switches for the two separate sump pump circuits.

After going deep in there to map out my electric yesterday in the near-dark corners, I've also decided to add a few lights down there as well. They won't be on yet another switch. I'll just energize the entire lines to both sump wells on two separate switches, and I'll add some pull-string light fixtures in the mix. There's enough light in there with just the single light in the center of the room for me to get to those and turn them on whenever I needed more light.

Once I have the electric I need safely capped off in a single box down there, I can wrap all of that up, put my decorator 3-way switch in the switchbank going downstairs and get the 3-gang decorator cover put on the newly painted wall.

I'll probably first start the day off by adding the GFCI for the outlet on the wall that would be opposite of the shower in the overlook room and get the decorator cap on that. I may even break out what little drywall I need to next to that outlet and one of the other low outlets where coaxial cable comes in so I can get the nice decorator coaxial plates installed too.


Once all that is done, it would be a good point to check out the weather and decide whether I want to continue on with electrifying the crawl space now or if I want to spend some time in my garage working on the next step for the overlook.

--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Monday, February 5, 2024 1:03 PM

BRENDA


Out for my walk on a dry day here. Need a refill on my seizure meds and get a couple of other things done.

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Monday, February 5, 2024 5:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


My "rain gage" overflowed last night, so we got at least 3" of rain. So I emptied it out and set it up (in the rain) to see how much more I can measure.

I checked on that mystery hole in the front yard, and it's still swallowing water. Since I estimate that particular downspout drains about 500 sq feet of roof .... and 3" of rain ... that's about 1000 gallons. That's a lot of water! The hole hasn't gotten bigger. Nonetheless, I still intend to check into that plus an area of subsidence. Even if I have to buy a borescope.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Monday, February 5, 2024 5:17 PM

BRENDA


Back and done for today. Having a sit down.

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Monday, February 5, 2024 11:05 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


All I managed to get done was install that GFCI outlet and make sure it worked. I cut out the drywall around the two boxes, but I'm really going to have to think of a plan before I wrap that up.

The dummies before me used all black wires in there, so I've got a black wire coming in for the neutral to the outlet on the 3rd circuit that has the light and would be for the furnace. They taped one of the black wires in there with a white piece of electric tape, but it was one of the hot leads.



They were also extremely lazy and went out of the existing box with a small straight nipple to a 90 degree piece, then wrapped it back down and around the box into the crawl. That's nonsense and isn't going to work at all for me with the amount of wires I need to put through there. I'm going to have to take that all apart and cut the end piece down with a 90 degree bend into the bottom of that box like it should have been done. Hell... That might not have been laziness even. It could have been a complete lack of skill.

That's alright though. The conduit they've got going into the crawl looks pretty corroded. I'd say that it was because of prior flooding, but any of the other conduit down there doesn't look like that. I think they just put all the shittiest conduit they had on hand in the area that would be covered up by drywall and nobody would see. If I could say for sure it didn't look like that INSIDE the conduit I'd just leave it up, but I can't, and I'm not going to risk tearing insulation on corroded pipes so I'm going to replace all that anyhow. So having to fix their shoddy work isn't really going to take any more time.

I've done an inventory of what I have, and I'm going to buy 6 more lengths of conduit, along with some various other things before I even start the job. I can't believe I actually ran out of conduit after all this time. My step-dad gave me something like 30 lengths of it many years ago when we never got around to wiring up the garage. That went a lot further than just the garage though. I was able to do the porch, the shed and the attic above the shed with it, and I've still got 3 1/2 pieces and some smaller cut offs left. That won't be enough for what I want to do in the basement though. 9+ pieces ought to do it. If I have to go back and buy more I will.

Prices of electrical stuff is nuts right now. My step-dad saved me a ton of money giving me all that stuff years ago. I've had to buy various boxes and connectors along the way, but the only real costly thing I had to buy was a spool of 500 feet of white wire when I ran out of that. I should have plenty of black left to finish the job in my house, as well as some orange for switch travellers. That stuff is like 80 bucks a roll these days. When I bought the house you could get them for $30.

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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Tuesday, February 6, 2024 1:14 PM

BRENDA


Out and about to get things done in a bit on another dry day. Suppose to have a rain come in this evening and last for the rest of the week.

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Tuesday, February 6, 2024 2:47 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I thought the firehose would be aimed north of us.

Boy, was I wrong!!!

I set out my "rain gage" Sunday right before the rain. By Monday afternoon it had overflowed. That's 3 1/4 ". So emptied it into my indoor potted plantsand set it out again. By Monday evening it had collected another 2 1/4".
Emptied it again.
Now, looking out the window it looks like another 2 1/2".

That totals up to 8"+, right? That's pretty close to the max being reported from DWP rain gages. Either there's something terribly wrong with where the rain gage is sited .... on a concrete paver in the middle of our backyard, as far from any trees and roofs as I could find ... or we're in the middle of rainfall alley, since I typically measure inches more than my friend in the foothills.

Haven't been near the San Gabriel River, but I expect it's a raging torrent by now, despite all of the dams and water impoundments. Same goes for the Rio Hondo, which parallels the San Gabriel towards the west. My phone has been going off with flood alerts - fortunately not in our area. Think im gonna drive over there when i have a chance and take a picture of the river, see how close it is to overtopping its banks.

Quote:
Flood Watch For 38 Million In California, Governor Declares Emergency

https://mishtalk.com/economics/flood-watch-for-38-million-in-californi
a-governor-declares-emergency/


On the plus side, this series of storms brought our snowpack up from "lowest ever recorded" to "almost normal for this time of year",

https://cdec.water.ca.gov/snowapp/swcchart.action


At least it's only drizzling at the moment.

Well, I still have many indoor things to do, so better get busy!



-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Tuesday, February 6, 2024 3:30 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Finally got the two coaxial outlets installed. That was a bear. None of the pieces I had to do this wanted to work nicely together. Had to make some modifications to both of them so that they sat right and the screwless decorator plates sat flush with the wall on top of them while also not having the coax plate sitting too deep under the plate.

Don't even ask me how I did it. I was able to replicate it easily with the 2nd one today, but if I had to do this again 6 months from now I'd be learning how to do it from scratch again.




So that's all the plates in the room except for the 2 outlets on either side of the breaker box and the 3 switches next to the stairs going down into the basement.

I will probably put the plate on the outlet to the right side of the breaker box today, but I'm going to hold off on the one to the left side of it since that's where I need to bust out the wall to install the generator plug outside. No sense in putting it up only to possibly be marred up when I do that work.


The last bit of work I'd like to do today is to get the electric from the switch bank into the box where I'll be putting my switches for the sump wells so I can get the decorator plate on that. Once that's in, I should be able to get myself cleaned up and out to the hardware store to buy my stuff.

Maybe tomorrow I'll start actually working on the crawlspace electric. I'm going to end up burning the nice weather on this instead of finishing the overlook, but that's fine. I'll get to that eventually. It's still cold in the basement and crawlspace right now and it's going to be over 50 degrees today. Better to do it now than when it's only in the 30's outside.

--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Tuesday, February 6, 2024 5:38 PM

BRENDA


Back and done for today. Having a sit down now.

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Tuesday, February 6, 2024 8:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hoooo boy....

I opened up a can of worms here.

Yup. I have A neutral wire in the switch box.

But it was attached to the center switch that controls the cans since I bought the place, so yay!

That means that the other switch on the right didn't actually control anything. I never knew that because there was never anything installed where a ceiling fan would go. Maybe this is why there was a ceiling fan installed in the bedroom down there but not in this room? They were never able to get a light to light up, so they didn't bother.

I've now wired the switches up right and I can light up both the cans and the "fan". The neutral wire is simply capped off at the moment.


But the fan junction box in the ceiling has a TON of wires in it.

I need to figure out what circuit that neutral wire is coming from. I can't very well run it to a sump with a hot wire that isn't paired with it. The only reason the damn house hasn't burnt down is because all that was ever on that circuit was the 4 can lights.

I managed to find two neutral wires twisted together under a nut. I disconnected them and when I tested that hot to the fan with both of them it lit up. That means that somebody tied two separate neutrals from the box together. Another huge no-no. I was expecting one neutral to light up with that switch (from the breaker) and the 2nd one to not light up because it wasn't connected to the breaker.


It got dark out and I couldn't do anything else today. I don't know how long I'll be at this, but it has now become priority number 1 and I can't do anything else until I get to the bottom of this. I may have to spend time shutting off the main and tracing each individual neutral wire from the box after disconnecting all of them.

Christ...

The dumb shit people do.

--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Tuesday, February 6, 2024 11:24 PM

BRENDA


Pick up game of mah jong tomorrow afternoon.

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Wednesday, February 7, 2024 3:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So SIX, if I understand you correctly, two neutrals from different circuit breakers attached together?

That's not good.

So, how can you figure out which hit wire belongs to the neutral without being able to, literally, trace the wires???

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Wednesday, February 7, 2024 3:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Pick up game of mah jong tomorrow afternoon.
May the tiles be with you!

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Wednesday, February 7, 2024 5:57 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So SIX, if I understand you correctly, two neutrals from different circuit breakers attached together?


They were. They're not now, but they're in an overcrowded junction box and I have no idea what they are neutrals for. Let's just say that I couldn't even confidently hang a ceiling fan there, and that is a circuit that only has the 4 can lights and the ceiling fan going to it. Not only did they have two neutrals for two breakers twisted together, but that junction box is a passthrough for a LOT of unrelated things. And since there is a small diameter plaster ring under the drywall, I can't really even see what's going on in there. Add to that fact that every single wire in this house is 3" shorter than they should be and it's a real mess. I probably have to bust out the drywall on the ceiling I just finished painting to get that plaster ring off and get better access.

I'm quite comfortable working on electric and consider myself to be fairly skilled with it even though I'm not an electrician. That being said, that junction box is terrifying to me.

Quote:
That's not good.


No. It's double plus ungood.

Quote:
So, how can you figure out which hit wire belongs to the neutral without being able to, literally, trace the wires???


The breakers are only for hot wires, so it looks like there's a pretty good chance I need to turn off the main, disconnect all the neutral wires in the house and start re-checking all of my circuits with one neutral connected at a time. But before I even do that I need to make sure I'm doing everything safely. When anybody brings up that solution, I hear just as many people online saying not to do that because it's not safe. They're probably not wrong, because if this is not a problem exclusive to this junction box and these circuits, I could be flipping on other breakers without having neutrals connected.

I might be at this for a while.


--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Wednesday, February 7, 2024 1:13 PM

BRENDA


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Pick up game of mah jong tomorrow afternoon.
May the tiles be with you!

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM




That would be nice. Been fighting with them for the last couple of weeks.

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Wednesday, February 7, 2024 1:15 PM

BRENDA


Out in a bit. Couple of things to do before my pick up game. Later peeps.

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Wednesday, February 7, 2024 2:17 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Good luck Brenda.

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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Wednesday, February 7, 2024 2:52 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


A bit of an electrical update...

I'm learning a few things here.

First thing that bothered me about a week ago was after I switched the two incandescent bulbs in the hallway light on the 3-way, I noticed at night that they never turn all the way off. You can't tell during the daytime, but it's quite noticeable at night. It's not even nightlight bright since it wouldn't help you see where you were going, but they're always on no matter what.

I was worried about that, especially when I was worried that circuits are sharing neutrals, but it appears that this could just be the old 3-way switches to blame for this. Even the "new" one I was going to put on may not be rated for LED bulbs. It appears that unless you spring for a set of pricier 3-way switches there's always been a tiny bit of "bleed" with them. Nobody noticed it with incandescent bulbs since they just sucked up that energy too quick to even start getting hot and putting off light, but the LED bulbs are far more efficient and a little bit of extra juice is going to be noticeable.

I'm not saying that this isn't a problem yet. Just saying that I'm not going to worry about that until after I get the proper 3 way switches and the problem persists....

Honestly, I forgot the thing was even 3-way until I started doing this work. That lamp never gets used. I didn't even realize that it was the only fixture in the entire house that I didn't change to LED until I was taking it down from the ceiling to paint it.




That leads to our 2nd issue. I wasn't using a proper tester when looking at those neutrals I split up last night. I just had this ancient little 2 prong thing with a tiny LED bulb in it that lights up when you stick it into outlets to let you know they're still on. Handy if you've got nothing else on you and you're testing the outlet or switch you're going to swap out is hot or not after you think you hit the right breaker, but not for this job.

So when I was testing that switch leg to the ceiling fan against both neutrals, the little light was lighting up on both of them, leading me to believe that they both went to the box. It wasn't until after I realized that looking at LED lights on this project was leading me astray that I noticed that even that teeny tiny little LED bulb was glowing about 1/2 as bright when I was touching the other end against one of the neutrals than the other one.

Got my voltage tester out and there is clearly 120 volts running through the one going to the breaker box and nothing to the one that isn't going to the breaker box.

Where it goes from there when it's connected? I don't have a freakin' clue, but at least I know they didn't tie two separate neutrals from the box together now.

Now, to be completely honest, the fact it lit up that tiny LED could be indicative of a wiring problem. But little LEDs like that are possible to light up without even any direct current attached to them. A strongish electromagnetic field could get them to light up pretty bright. Simply the fact that there are so many wires shoved in that box could make that thing light up by touching a neutral that wasn't going to the breaker box.



So after figuring that out, in an effort to try to see if that neutral I had detached up in there is where the neutral coming down into the switch box are the same, I had the bright idea to tie a long length of scrap wire to the end of it in the switch box with a wire nut and then set my meter to continuity test mode and hold the prongs to the end of that and the wire up in the fan.

At first, when I didn't get any reading, I thought that I didn't learn anything with that test because my meter might not have been putting out enough juice to span that entire expanded line. But then I decided to the the scrap wire to the switch leg that I know goes up to the fan and run the same test and sure enough I've got continuity.



So no... That neutral in the switch box is not coming from the detached neutral in the ceiling.

Unless I figure out a way to verify where that neutral is coming from and whether or not I can even use it, I'm probably going to abandon my plans for a 2nd circuit in the basement for a sump well and just cap it off in there, put the switches back up for the fan and the can lights and call it a day.

As far as I know, the wires that are easy to get to actually don't have problems associated with them, so maybe I should just take it on faith that everything else in the house is running as designed and they didn't screw it up behind the scenes. My house hasn't burned down yet.

Occam's Razor and all of that... It's likely the only thing that was actually messed up was that they installed the switches in that one wall incorrectly, and then my flawed testing was making me panic about a situation that wasn't even taking place.



But as far as tapping into the existing circuits to add a 2nd well, and possibly 2 heat pumps in the walls, I think I'm going to abandon those ideas altogether. I don't currently possess the knowledge or the tools to (safely) test all of the existing wiring to make sure that it was all done right, and I've learned that no... I can't take it on faith that the circuits that appear to only have a few devices on them actually only have those few devices on them. For all I know, that neutral wire IS shared with the ceiling fan and the cans in the opposite room even though they're on two separate breakers. (That could theoretically be what is keeping those hallway LED lights on too if that circuit was tied in as well, but that's very unlikely) That would be against code, but if all we're talking about running on it is 8 LED lights and two possible fans, it would never be an issue. But if I added not one, but two heat pumps on those two separate circuits not realizing that they both utilize the same neutral I could run into real problems. Perhaps disastrously so.


Still though. I really would like to get another circuit safely into that crawl for a 2nd well at least. Plenty of people have two pumps on a single breaker. I just found out that is how my dad's was wired up when he bought his house. Not only that, but his washer and (gas) dryer are on the same circuit as well. Sounds awful, but he said that there's never been a problem since he's lived there and the breaker has never flipped on him. But my problem would be that if the breaker did flip and I didn't know it, I'd have 2 sump pumps not actually doing anything when I need them, which is about 85% of the year even if it isn't raining outside.

I do have plenty of spots left for new breakers in my box. Perhaps I'll scope out the situation to the left of the breaker box when I plan on adding that generator plug from outside since I'm already damaging that wall. I know there will be studs in the mix, but if I could get conduit into the crawl from there I could use a fresh circuit breaker for the job.

I already know that it's possible because there are conduit pipes that come down in there as well as a bit of romex that were all cut off right above the mid-house foundation that separates the crawl space from the livable area. (I will be testing that and making sure they aren't live, since I don't trust any of the previous work, of course).

If it doesn't require me to damage too much more than the bit of wall I was already going to be damaging to get the generator plug installed, I may do that and know that the 2nd sump pump is run on its own dedicated circuit in the future.

Then I'd be one more step closer to feeling confident enough to maybe one day try putting another furnace on the slab in the crawlspace where the gas pipes are already sitting there waiting for one.

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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Wednesday, February 7, 2024 4:22 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


LOL

I don't have a neutral in the switch bank at the stairs.

For the life of me, I couldn't figure out where that neutral was coming from. There's a good reason for that. It is a hot wire. But it's white.

I managed to do more digging in the ceiling and I found 2 black wires tied to a white wire with a nut, and the white wire had a little piece of black electrical tape wrapped around it (signifying it was hot and not neutral). Not sure if that's code here or not, but that's what they did. What they didn't do, or what somebody removed down the road was the piece of black tape that should have been wrapped around the other end of it in the switch box. So I disconnected it from the other two and ran another continuity test with the white wire in the switch bank and sure enough it was the same wire.

Since I didn't need it, I left it disconnected and capped it in the ceiling and did the same in the switch box, since it didn't appear that it would be easy to just yank the wire out.

Got a pigtail off the other hot lead in the switch box energizing the two switches, so they both work fine. One for the can lights and one for the missing ceiling fan.

Maybe somebody put both hots down there to have one for the fan and one for a fan light kit? I dunno what the thought process was. I can't even imagine why you'd want a light kit on a fan down there since the ceiling is already so low. The only fan I'd even consider putting up there would be one of those tiny ones that have a protective "cage" around them, otherwise I could see somebody as tall as my old man going down the stairs and getting clocked in the head by a stray fan blade.





Gonna get my 3-way switch up for the hallway light and get the decorator plate up there and call it a day on the work. Maybe clean myself up and get some shopping done that could be put off until tomorrow if I don't feel like it.



So yeah... I won't be adding any pumps on existing circuits, but I'm feeling a lot safer now than I did 24 hours ago. Hopefully it won't be too hard to get a fresh circuit down in that crawl for a 2nd sump pump, otherwise getting a battery backup will be my only real option.

--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Wednesday, February 7, 2024 5:23 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Switches and wall plate up and it looks awesome.

Put an incandescent bulb back in the hallway light just so it won't be lit up all the time until I get the other 3-way in there and see if that does the trick.

Probably going to do nothing tonight. Think I'll save my errands for tomorrow.


Going to have to regroup, get all my various tools put where they belong, clean everything up and figure out what I want to do next now that I won't be working on any more electric anytime soon.. I'm missed most of the nice weather and don't really feel like rushing work on the overlook in the garage now. Maybe I'll get the 3 pieces of trim cut and installed on the basement side and cut down my poles to size and get them painted in the meantime. It can't stay cold forever.

--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Wednesday, February 7, 2024 11:15 PM

BRENDA


Got back around 6pm this evening and I managed to pull out a win on the second round.

Hope I can do something like that tomorrow at my regular game.

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Thursday, February 8, 2024 9:27 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Got back around 6pm this evening and I managed to pull out a win on the second round.

Hope I can do something like that tomorrow at my regular game.


Sweet.

Good luck tomorrow Brenda.

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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Thursday, February 8, 2024 9:34 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Got some great rebate shopping to do today. This one might be the best that I've done in the 3 to 4 years I've been doing it. If taxes weren't included, I'll end up paying around 4 to 5% of what I spend when the rebates come back.

The most exciting for me is countersink bit sets, which is one of two things I'll even be paying anything for. I've never seen them on a rebate sale before. I'll be adding 14 new countersink bits to my collection of tools today, for only $3.96 instead of $39.96. Add $2.80 sales tax to that since you've got to pay the full tax, but when I go to use the rebate to buy stuff in the future it's tax free.

Got some other errands to run today, and I'll probably spend the rest of the day cleaning up the work areas in the basement, reorganizing my tools and putting stuff in the garage that should be in the garage. It's a dry and sunny day in the 50's for the high, so it's a great day to do all of that. I'm going to try to organize things in such a way that I can get set up to work on the overlook without crap all over the place. I've taken so much stuff from my buddy's garage for future work and it doesn't need to be where its currently sitting. I just put it there because it was ice cold outside and I didn't want to spend time in the garage.

It's probably time to put the miter saw back out there too, even though it's going to get cold again. I've just simply got too many things in the "bedroom" down there to be cutting long stock on it without knocking things all around and now that I mostly finished that overlook room I don't really like the idea of using it in there anymore. I have been known to accidentally knock long stock into walls and the ceiling when cutting and painting them. Now I actually care about that.

I may choose to cut the three pieces of trim first though since it's already down there. I hardly ever make the cut perfect the first time and it's nice having the saw right next to it instead of running back in and out of the house for cuts. Especially when one of those pieces is 10 feet long.

It will still be 50 degrees tomorrow too, so that's probably the plan right now.

--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Thursday, February 8, 2024 10:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Congrats on the win, BRENDA. L
I hope you get a repeat today.


-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Thursday, February 8, 2024 11:08 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Been following your work, SIX. It sohnds like you solved that knotty wiring problem whenyou discovered that what was supposed to be a neutral was really a hot wire.

But doesn't that mean that someone had tied a hot (miscolored hot wire) directly to a neutral (white wire)? If not, I'm confused.

Glad that your cold weather is relenting. Just the rest of February and March to go, right? It seems like except for that polar vortex for a few weeks, it's been a pretty mild winter over there. Fingers crossed it stays that way.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Thursday, February 8, 2024 11:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, we managed not to float away. I haven't measured the last accumulation (we git a bit more rain overnight) but it seems the crews prepared diligently, clearing storm drains and cleaning out the recharge basins and so forth. So despite the high rainfall there was little flooding.
I had to go to my presurgical physical yesterday, whuch us part of the clearance procedure before anesthesia, and on my way back I stopped at a park near the San Gabriel River to check out the flow.

Water was flowing over the lowest dam and in the river channel below it. (During a normal 3" event water is so impounded it often doesn't even make it to the lowest dam). But it wasn't the raging torrent I expected. I saw a rarely-used impoundment on the Rio Hondo filled up, and I'll bet all of the recharge basins and spreading grounds and dams are full, full, full, and our groundwater gets another boost this year. So between last year's almost double rainfall and this year's normal rainfall (so far) the state, the farmers, the wildlife, the cities shouldn't be gasping for water.

Still juggling various family health issues, and the calendar is distressingly full, full, full of my Dr appts. Aside from the upcoming sinus/ nasal surgery I still have oncology followup, and since my cancer markers are a bit above borderline I don't know what kind of news to expect. And this is scaring dear daughter, who has her own chronic and immediate issues to deal with.


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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Thursday, February 8, 2024 5:10 PM

BRENDA


Back and done for today. No luck at mah jong today. All the winners were at one table and it wasn't mine. Oh well. At least the rain held off for today.

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Thursday, February 8, 2024 10:46 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Been following your work, SIX. It sohnds like you solved that knotty wiring problem whenyou discovered that what was supposed to be a neutral was really a hot wire.

But doesn't that mean that someone had tied a hot (miscolored hot wire) directly to a neutral (white wire)? If not, I'm confused.


It was a hot wire, but it was a white wire. What I didn't realize was that up in the ceiling is where it came from and they had that white wire tied to two black wires. But up in the ceiling they put a piece of black tape about an inch from the wire nut to signify that it was a hot. If they did the same in the box they accidentally cut it off at some point or it fell off. They probably just forgot, honestly. Somebody probably ran out of black wire on the job.

There were other "issues" that really turned out to be non-issues, but that kind of got me in a negative loop and I made some mistakes with my testing. After sleeping on it my head was in the right space and I figured it out.

It's not nearly as bad as I started imagining it was, but just seeing the amateur hour electricity work so far and not really knowing what all is behind the walls I've decided that heat pumps are out unless I want to destroy walls and ceilings one day and put new circuits in the basement for them. I do think I'll be able to pretty easily run a new circuit to the crawl for a dedicated line for a 2nd sump pump, but that will be all that I do for now.

Quote:
Glad that your cold weather is relenting. Just the rest of February and March to go, right? It seems like except for that polar vortex for a few weeks, it's been a pretty mild winter over there. Fingers crossed it stays that way.


Yeah. It's been pretty nice. Last year I didn't even get to run my snow blower, so at least I got two good uses out of it so far this year.



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Thursday, February 8, 2024 10:53 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Made the most out of the nice weather today.

After running all my errands I got everything cleaned up and organized in the basement. Once that was done I cut and installed the final 3 pieces of trim I had for the basement side of the overlook. I've had that stuff since 2019, so it's nice to finally use it all up.




After that I sanded down my two boards for the overlook, made the measurements for my holes, clamped the boards together and drilled the 19 holes I need for the poles.

I'm glad I didn't buy a 1 5/8" forstner bit and I decided to buy a full set of them because even though those closet rods were listed as 1 5/8" they were slightly less than 1 3/8". I'm also glad I caught that before I started making holes too. There will be a little bit more play with the rods than I was hoping for, but that's the closest I could get them. I'm hoping that situation improves after a few coats of primer and paint go on everything.

That portable drill press for my cordless drill coupled with the forstner bit is AWESOME!!!!


Since I have the warmest day ahead of me tomorrow and I already got all the stuff I thought I'd be doing tomorrow done today, I think I'm going to bust out my router and round down the faces of those two boards and make them look really fancy before I put them up.

Once I get that all put together I'll have plenty of pictures.



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Friday, February 9, 2024 11:18 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Well... Gonna head on out to the garage and see if that old router still works.

It's only got one bit and the way the thing works it looks like it used proprietary bits that aren't easy to find. I didn't even know that until I was working on those kitchen drawers and my neighbor who ended up doing the faces for me had 3 routers of his own from different brands that all used interchangeable bits that don't work with mine.

Fortunately for me, it's the one that I want to use.

If it doesn't work, hopefully my neighbor is home and I can borrow one of his for an hour.


After that I've got to re-measure how long I'll need the poles to be since I only drilled halfway down the bottom board with the forstner bit. I've got to be super careful how I cut out those boards so they line up perfectly. I now regret having taken them apart with the clamps to take pictures of them, but I'll be able to line them back up.

I don't imagine that I'll be able to make perfect cuts to the side jambs for those boards since they weren't installed plum by previous owners. No worries. I can just fill in the gaps with wood putty and shape it down and it will look like I cut them perfect if it's not actually doable.





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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Friday, February 9, 2024 12:54 PM

BRENDA


Out on a sunny day. Weather services up here are starting to worry about what will happen through the spring and into summer. They are talking drought and of course fire season.

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Friday, February 9, 2024 1:29 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Hey, so just OOC, from the time you wake up to the time that you REALLY start your day, how long doescit take to get your motor going?
It takes me an hour. Of course, being retired it's a leisurely start- drinking coffee, scanning the news, rinsing my nose etc. But I can't seem to get going any faster than that.
Just curious.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Friday, February 9, 2024 4:52 PM

BRENDA


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Hey, so just OOC, from the time you wake up to the time that you REALLY start your day, how long doescit take to get your motor going?
It takes me an hour. Of course, being retired it's a leisurely start- drinking coffee, scanning the news, rinsing my nose etc. But I can't seem to get going any faster than that.
Just curious.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM


That depends. Today it was around an hour. I turn this one for a bit. Have breakfast and my seizure meds. Then I turn it off again and do a run around my place to make sure I haven't forgotten anything that I might need. And usually I would say an hour. I'm not doing much either being by myself. Now, if it is my mah jong morning which is Thursday it is about half an hour. Same thing when I am going to work but I usually have to make a stop to pick up a sandwich and get a coffee before I head there.

Mornings are not my favourite time of the day. I am still a night owl. Always have been since I was a kid. I am up to well after 1am.

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Friday, February 9, 2024 4:56 PM

BRENDA


Back and done for the day. Even got the bathroom sink cleaned out.


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Friday, February 9, 2024 4:56 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Hey, so just OOC, from the time you wake up to the time that you REALLY start your day, how long doescit take to get your motor going?
It takes me an hour. Of course, being retired it's a leisurely start- drinking coffee, scanning the news, rinsing my nose etc. But I can't seem to get going any faster than that.
Just curious.


It depends for me too.

If I'm obligated to somebody else for the day, it's usually pretty quick. I'm not an early riser, so I got to get in gear pretty fast after waking up. Maybe one cup of coffee and a quick shower before I'm out the door.

If I'm just doing stuff on my house, it could be hours. I spend time here and looking at the news stuff while getting some coffee in me. I skip all that if I'm not going to be working at home.


I'm actually breaking work for the day early today even though I planned on doing more, but I didn't even finish up in the garage last night until 9:30PM so I don't feel bad about it.



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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Friday, February 9, 2024 5:02 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Turns out my router DOES take standard bits. I don't know what my neighbor was talking about lol. The housing for the bits is TIGHT though, so it's hard to remove them.

Honestly, I don't even remember how the hell I did those shelves in my master bedroom closet with that thing. The single bit I had for it didn't have the right sized bearing on it, so it didn't cut a good roundover. But my shelves were finished like I it did. I must have power sanded the hell out of them before staining them. Too many years ago to remember, especially since I was boozing all the time back then.


So... I had to go and buy myself a router bit set today. Since we only had one more day of warm weather, I couldn't wait for a cheaper (and probably better) set to come in the mail.

So now I'm about $275 into this overlook project.

That's cool though. Those forstner bits are great and that drill press is awesome. I don't know how long these new router bits will cut well, but they did a phenominal job for me today.

I was going to cut them to size today and maybe start cutting my poles to size before priming and painting everything, but I'm going to start that fresh tomorrow. I've spent so much time and effort making those top/bottom boards for the overlook now I don't want to screw up the abnormal cuts I'll need to make to fit them in perfectly and I want to do that work when I'm fresh in the morning.

I can't wait to show pictures. I had a lot of fun working on them the last two days. They look so good it's really a damn shame that I'm painting them instead of staining them.



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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Saturday, February 10, 2024 2:10 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Picture Time!

I couldn't help myself.



Two of my new toys. Both of them proven to be invaluable tools in my collection after yesterday. The portable drill press has rubber feet that keep it firmly in place on your stock. You can see the 1 3/8" forstner bit inserted tightly inside it here.

I wasn't aware that unlike a hole saw it actually bores out the holes, so unlike a holesaw, I didn't have to go back in with a chisel and knock out the part I wanted removed when I was done. Great bits.


Here's my crappy stock. Those were the best two boards I could find out of about 50 that I checked. I worked around the knots in the middle of the stock, but there were a few knots on the end I was worried about chipping when it came to using the router on them. Turns out that with a fresh router bit they aren't a problem at all.

I thought I'd taken a picture before I sanded them down real good to show you just how crappy they actually were, but it looks like I only got a picture of when I'd already cleaned them up real good.


Here's a picture of the drill press in action. The forstner bits do a good job of "wicking" away the wood shavings, but you do need to clean it out constantly otherwise it will bind up on you.

Oh... and I got those clamps a year or two ago on a great rebate sale. They were part of 8 clamp sets that cost me like $4 or $5 after rebate. I bought two of them so I got 16 clamps for around $10. None of them are super long, like for the ones I used for clamping down my kitchen drawers or a box I made for my brother a few years back, but they're great for clamping stock together or to my work bench for routering.


Here's a picture showing the concept in action. Sorry that it's blurry, but it was rather difficult to take that picture while holding 4 pieces together in one hand while snapping the photo in the other hand.

The bottom piece is only bored out about halfway. When I found the depth I wanted on the first hole, the drill press has a friendly depth guide that you can clamp down so every hole you make with it drills the same depth with no guessing required.

Now when I insert these 21 pieces into the existing overlook, I will use liquid nails in all those bottom piece holes, put the top piece on top of that, then insert all 19 poles into the holes.

I'll then slide all of those into the overlook, raise the top board to the top with liquid nails on the back of it, shoot brad nails to get the top piece in place, then shoot brad nails in the bottom piece. Then I'll make fine tuning adjustments on the poles.

I'm also going to use furniture pads at the tops of the 19 poles so they're in tight but I can move them around exactly where I need them before I let the liquid nails set overnight.

Once the glue is dry, I will caulk in the top pieces. That caulk should sink in after a few days, at which point I will use wood putty around both the top and bottom of the poles, then sand it all down flat and paint them and it will all look like one solid piece.

Tons of work in the end, but this is going to look fantastic when it's finally finished.




(Just in case it wasn't apparent by the darker color wood in this picture, this was a scrap piece of wood and I did not ruin my stock without testing the router first!!!!)

Here's a picture of how the old bit I had chewed up the wood and also left a 1/8" "ridge" that I would have had to power sand off on 2 sides of 2 pieces of 98" stock.

I must have had to sand that down on those shelves that I made for the master bedroom closet years ago and forgot I did that. I was NOT going to be doing all that extra work here...


So I sprung another $40 into this project to get a new router bit set.

Not the greatest bits in the world I'm sure, since you could easily spend over $100 on a single bit if you're made of money. But I'm not going to use these things every day and they did the job just fine for me.

(The old crappy bit is pictured in front of it. If you can't tell from the picture, the reason it left that ridge that would need to be sanded down is because that's the incorrect size bearing installed on top of it. The bearing is what guides the piece along the stock when you're shaving it down and the bearing was about 1/16" too small on either side of the cutting blade.)


Here's a pic of the bottom piece clamped down to my work bench and shaped. You can see here how I made sure that the knots were in between the bored holes just in case they would have chipped off on me when drilling them.


And both of the pieces shaped and ready for me to cut down to size.





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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Saturday, February 10, 2024 1:16 PM

BRENDA


Out for my walk soon on a dry Saturday even though there was talk of rain on the weather last night. Need a bit of groceries and I want to make a stop at my local library and put a hold on a couple of things.

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Saturday, February 10, 2024 1:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You might think that's crappy stock, but considering what's out there I think it looks great!

Hubby has sent me to pick up some 2x4s from Home Depot when I went there for something else, and it's pretty slim pickings. The boards are either warped, or wet, or split, or knotty. Im happy if I can find something that's only warped at one end (can be cut off), dry, and only has knots are in places that won't matter. Often I come home with nothing. I hate picking out wood!

I see what you mean about the router bit bearing.


I get the idea that you're going to assemble everything and brad the whole thing in place in the opening, but the order of assembly eludes me. Liquid nails in the bottom holes, then the railings, THEN cap it with the top piece?

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Saturday, February 10, 2024 1:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Out for my walk soon on a dry Saturday even though there was talk of rain on the weather last night. Need a bit of groceries and I want to make a stop at my local library and put a hold on a couple of things.
It's always much more pleasant when it's dry!

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Saturday, February 10, 2024 3:30 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You might think that's crappy stock, but considering what's out there I think it looks great!

Hubby has sent me to pick up some 2x4s from Home Depot when I went there for something else, and it's pretty slim pickings. The boards are either warped, or wet, or split, or knotty. Im happy if I can find something that's only warped at one end (can be cut off), dry, and only has knots are in places that won't matter. Often I come home with nothing. I hate picking out wood!


Like I said though... I had to pick through at least 50 boards that were on a shelf overhead in the pavillion out in the yard. They were packed in pretty tight, and I was on the 2nd floor where there wasn't 10 feet behind me, so the ones that I pulled out had to be laid out flat while I pulled enough out to start sorting them right up there since a lot of them were obviously bad before I even pulled them out 5 feet.

They were really rough, especially on the sides, considering they were called "quality" boards. If they weren't on sale I probably would have asked for my money back and just got their crap boards and ended up doing just as much work on them, assuming I could find pieces that good among the crap.

Yeah.... 2x4's are different for sure. Until I start using my power planer and getting that in the mix, I'd never use 2x4 stock for finish work like this. I built all of my portable shelving in the garage and basement with it because I don't care what it looks like.

I could have bought their "select" line, but instead of paying $7.00 per board it was $22 per board. It was worth the extra work to save $30, IMO.

Quote:
I see what you mean about the router bit bearing.


Yeah... Annoying that. I was in a much different frame of mind when I used it to make those shelves, so it doesn't surprise me that I did them that way and spent a few hours using a power sander to sand them smooth. Maybe I'm just getting too old for that shit, but where I wouldn't have parted with $40 to buy the right tool 7 or so years ago, it was an easy choice yesterday.


Quote:
I get the idea that you're going to assemble everything and brad the whole thing in place in the opening, but the order of assembly eludes me. Liquid nails in the bottom holes, then the railings, THEN cap it with the top piece?


The only things that are being brad nailed are the two plates in the pictures. The top plate is the one with the holes all the way through. The bottom plate is the one with the holes only bored about 2/3rds through.


I'm going to put both boards up first from the basement side. The top board will be laying directly on top of the bottom board, with both of the rounded/finished sides touching each other.

Liquid nails will be in the holes of the bottom board.

Then I will insert all 19 poles into the holes through the top of the top board and into the liquid nails in the bottom board.

Then I slowly slide everything into place.

The poles will have felt furniture pads on the top so they will be in tight but they will also allow me to play around with them to get them where they need to go without gouging any of the previously finished stuff (I've already tested that out with two poles and it works great so far).

The liquid nails has a TON of set time, so I don't have to do a mad dash here. I need to put the poles as close to perfect as I can using those felt pads to more or less anchor them in place as I go down the line.

Once I'm satisfied the poles are where I want them, I'll shoot some liquid nails on the back of the top plate and lift it up to the top being as careful as I can to not disturb the poles inside of it, and when I'm sure I've got that plate where I want it I will shoot a few brad nails inside it (just two at first in case I need to knock it a little for adjustments).

Then I'll make sure the bottom is in exactly where I want it to go and shot the brad nails to secure the bottom plate to the painted plate I already installed before.

Once again I'll use my level to make sure the poles are all plum, and I'll stand back from the side to make sure that they're all straight from front to back so it doesn't look like any of them are off center when you're looking at the whole thing off to the side.

Once I'm happy with that I'll secure the top with more brad nails and let the liquid nails set overnight.


I don't know if that makes it any more clear?

Lotta steps here and I know exactly what the plan is now, but without being able to show you I'm probably not explaining it good enough.


Everything has got to be primed and painted first too, so it will be a while. Today is all about cutting everything to the right size and dry fitting it. It's already getting a little late in the afternoon, so I might not even get to priming everything before I quit for the day.

I could probably snap a few pictures of everything dry fit and maybe that will help explain it better.

L

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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Saturday, February 10, 2024 4:19 PM

BRENDA


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Out for my walk soon on a dry Saturday even though there was talk of rain on the weather last night. Need a bit of groceries and I want to make a stop at my local library and put a hold on a couple of things.
It's always much more pleasant when it's dry!

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM




It most definitely is but clouds are rolling in. Have to see if the rain arrives.

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Saturday, February 10, 2024 4:21 PM

BRENDA


Back and done and decided to put a little elbow grease into the kitchen sink this time. Looks much better.

Had a slice of pizza for lunch from the pizza place in my local mall. It was a pretty good slice.

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Saturday, February 10, 2024 4:57 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


The one benefit to doing this all the way I'm doing it is that I don't have to be super particular about the lengths of the poles. I mean, yeah, I've got to make sure they're long enough to hit the top and have some resistance with the felt pads, but at this point I've got 12 of the 19 of them up and I don't even know how long I'm cutting them. I'm simply using the last pole I did to put in the next hole and gauge whether I need to keep it the same size, make it slightly longer or slightly shorter. I might have to cut it 2 or 3 times to get it just right, but the saw is 2 feet away from me.

It appears that this should work out really well. I should be able to have some really nice pictures of the dry fit before I can take it down to make my final cuts on the top board. That top board is still too tight up at the top because I didn't fix the box that they're all in before finishing things off, but rather than cut it to fit the sides I want to cut it to fit the poles. If I have to use a little wood putty on the sides to fill it in, so be it. Far more important that my poles are all installed straight and plum than worrying too much about the wacky angles of the jambs.

I would have done things a lot differently if I had to do it all over again, but it'll be alright. That's how you learn.





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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Saturday, February 10, 2024 6:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


So yeah... I think I was blowing some of this way out of proportion.

I've got some pictures here of the dry fit and I haven't even put a level up to anything to verify anything was plum. This was all just eyeballed.



Here's the bottom rail and how it fit on top of the one that I originally made a few months ago.


Shot from inside the basement.

Oh yeah... I never showed any pics of the before/after of the basement. You'll get to see a bit of the after here.


You can see the top board still needs to be cut down just a bit. I'll figure that out tomorrow. I'm pleased with how the day went and what I got done.

And here's 3 separate angles of looking at it from the 1st floor...





Nothing is actually secured here with anything, but it's all snug fits. I've got the furniture pads on top of each of the 19 poles. I may decide to change them out for rubber bumpers before I put them back up.

When I take them down I'm going to number each one on the bottom from right to left from inside the basement since that's the way I installed each of them today before sanding them smooth and painting them.


I'm REEEEEEAAAAAALY considering possibly staining all of that new stuff instead of painting it white.

I haven't made up my mind yet. It's one of the reasons I'm going to let it sit up there for a while.

I won't be working on it tomorrow since I'm going to my friend's house for super sportsball day.





Oh... and here was "The Plan".


I think it went more or less according to plan.



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