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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't quite get how the rats are supposed to get in the bucket. Some sort of ladder?

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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Why SECOND'S posts are brainless: "I clocked how much time: no more than 10 minutes per day. With cut-and-paste (Ctrl C and Ctrl V) and AI, none of this takes much time."
Or, any verification or thought.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Yeah, I watched pretty well the whole 1st season with Tom Baker and from then on. I was hooked. I found out later how big a deal it was in the UK too after I started watching it.

I'll have a think about it as I think my library still has a copy of it. I got to there tomorrow as I have something to return. I am rewatching "Bon Cop, Bad Cop" again.

That clip you included looks and sounds like the clip my friend and her room mate found on YouTube.

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I don't know who Tom Baker is. I know the guy who played Killgrave in Jessica Jones was the Doctor for a while there, but I forget what his name is at the moment. I think they may have tried bringing him back to renew some interest in the show after they basically killed it over the last few years.

Have you seen anything Dr. Who that was made in the last 5 years?


That clip was a good one. It seems some of the people who have been involved in all the bad changes they've made to the show recently were attached to the show all those years ago, but they didn't have the creative control they've got today.

Chris Eccleston didn't seem to like them back then either.

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Trump will be fine.
He will also be your next President.

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Yes, I have. I've seen almost all of this new bunch of Drs, starting with Eccleston. Outside of him of the new, my favorite actor to play the Doctor was David Tenant. By the time Matt Smith left the show I was just getting used to him as the Doctor. One of my least favourite versions of the Doctor was played by Peter Capaldi.

I know. My friend told me that Christopher Eccleston had a problem and probably why he left.

Most actors take on the role for about 3 years depending if they are liked by the audience it seems. Though as I told SIG, Tom Baker would have stayed on longer if he hadn't had a disagreement back in the early 80s. Colin Baker and no relation to Tom, was let go and probably would have left over the writing from what I remember of his time as the Doctor.

I have seen every incarnation of the Doctor except for this latest one. As it is now on a streaming service and I don't have any of those.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Yeah, I watched pretty well the whole 1st season with Tom Baker and from then on. I was hooked. I found out later how big a deal it was in the UK too after I started watching it.

I'll have a think about it as I think my library still has a copy of it. I got to there tomorrow as I have something to return. I am rewatching "Bon Cop, Bad Cop" again.

That clip you included looks and sounds like the clip my friend and her room mate found on YouTube.

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I don't know who Tom Baker is. I know the guy who played Killgrave in Jessica Jones was the Doctor for a while there, but I forget what his name is at the moment. I think they may have tried bringing him back to renew some interest in the show after they basically killed it over the last few years.

Have you seen anything Dr. Who that was made in the last 5 years?


That clip was a good one. It seems some of the people who have been involved in all the bad changes they've made to the show recently were attached to the show all those years ago, but they didn't have the creative control they've got today.

Chris Eccleston didn't seem to like them back then either.

--------------------------------------------------

Trump will be fine.
He will also be your next President.

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Yes, I have. I've seen almost all of this new bunch of Drs, starting with Eccleston. Outside of him of the new, my favorite actor to play the Doctor was David Tenant. By the time Matt Smith left the show I was just getting used to him as the Doctor. One of my least favourite versions of the Doctor was played by Peter Capaldi.

I know. My friend told me that Christopher Eccleston had a problem and probably why he left.

Most actors take on the role for about 3 years depending if they are liked by the audience it seems. Though as I told SIG, Tom Baker would have stayed on longer if he hadn't had a disagreement back in the early 80s. Colin Baker and no relation to Tom, was let go and probably would have left over the writing from what I remember of his time as the Doctor.

I have seen every incarnation of the Doctor except for this latest one. As it is now on a streaming service and I don't have any of those.

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Did you know that there are actually quite a few episodes of the original episodes of Dr. Who that are considered Lost Media?

I just checked to make sure that was still true, but according to Wikipedia there are still 97 episodes that haven't been found.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_missing_episodes



What did you think of the Jodi Whitaker era of Dr. Who?

Have you braced yourself for the Ncuti Gatwa era of Dr. Who?


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Trump will be fine.
He will also be your next President.

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Yes, I do know about the lost episodes and the one from the Tom Baker era that was never finished filming. That one is titled, "Shada"

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Yes, I do know about the lost episodes and the one from the Tom Baker era that was never finished filming. That one is titled, "Shada"

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That's crazy, isn't it?

The recording medium we used for that type of stuff was so precious and expensive that all the masters of how many different shows have been recorded over for new episodes of new shows. So many of them decades before VCRs came out or got popular enough that somebody had to have recorded it.

They did the same thing with the moon landing footage. That's the craziest one I ever heard.

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I wasn't overly fond of Jodie Whitaker but that also could have been the companions that her Doctor had. I wasn't crazy about any of them. Though that was the series where they worked how to get around the idea that the Doctor and other Time Lords only had 13 incarnations. The Doctor is from another dimension where their true people have the ability to reincarnate as many times as they want. The Doctor was raised by a scientist who figured this out and was able to translate it into Gallifreyian DNA and the Time Lords were born. So to speak. *L*

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They had to retcon a lot of stuff to make the new story they wanted to tell work, is what I heard. This falls under the category of only include what you want to include in a universe that you enjoy. If you like the Whitaker era and the story enough, go ahead and keep all that info. If not, there's nothing forcing anybody to recognize any of it either.

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Unless I pick it up on YouTube or it comes out on DVD, this will be the second Doctor I won't have seen. I forgot there was movie that was made up here in BC, in fact filmed around Vancouver with Paul McCann as the Doctor. I managed to miss that.

A friend of mine managed to see the new fellow and she liked him. So, I am reserving judgement until I can get a look see.

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I hear he's a particularly randy one, this new doctor. You probably already heard that he prefers the company of men by now.

I don't know. I just don't get it anymore.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Yes, I do know about the lost episodes and the one from the Tom Baker era that was never finished filming. That one is titled, "Shada"

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That's crazy, isn't it?

The recording medium we used for that type of stuff was so precious and expensive that all the masters of how many different shows have been recorded over for new episodes of new shows. So many of them decades before VCRs came out or got popular enough that somebody had to have recorded it.

They did the same thing with the moon landing footage. That's the craziest one I ever heard.

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I wasn't overly fond of Jodie Whitaker but that also could have been the companions that her Doctor had. I wasn't crazy about any of them. Though that was the series where they worked how to get around the idea that the Doctor and other Time Lords only had 13 incarnations. The Doctor is from another dimension where their true people have the ability to reincarnate as many times as they want. The Doctor was raised by a scientist who figured this out and was able to translate it into Gallifreyian DNA and the Time Lords were born. So to speak. *L*

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They had to retcon a lot of stuff to make the new story they wanted to tell work, is what I heard. This falls under the category of only include what you want to include in a universe that you enjoy. If you like the Whitaker era and the story enough, go ahead and keep all that info. If not, there's nothing forcing anybody to recognize any of it either.

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Unless I pick it up on YouTube or it comes out on DVD, this will be the second Doctor I won't have seen. I forgot there was movie that was made up here in BC, in fact filmed around Vancouver with Paul McCann as the Doctor. I managed to miss that.

A friend of mine managed to see the new fellow and she liked him. So, I am reserving judgement until I can get a look see.

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I hear he's a particularly randy one, this new doctor. You probably already heard that he prefers the company of men by now.

I don't know. I just don't get it anymore.

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Well, if I remember right when "Shada" was starting to film there was a strike at the BBC and they just decided to can production period. Pieces of it are on film and the book was actually written for it. I have numerous Doctor Who books from all most all of the Doctors.

I don't mind that they had to do a some rewriting of the character, I mean they never said in the beginning how Gallifreyians came to be known as Time Lords, so they had to explain. And also since they want the show to keep going with different actors, they needed an explanation.

Yeah, my friend told me but it doesn't bother me that much. Hope I can get to see him is all.

The world is a different place from 1963 when the first episode of Doctor Who aired, which was titled, "An Unearthly Child".

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Yes, I do know about the lost episodes and the one from the Tom Baker era that was never finished filming. That one is titled, "Shada"

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That's crazy, isn't it?

The recording medium we used for that type of stuff was so precious and expensive that all the masters of how many different shows have been recorded over for new episodes of new shows. So many of them decades before VCRs came out or got popular enough that somebody had to have recorded it.

They did the same thing with the moon landing footage. That's the craziest one I ever heard.

Quote:

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I wasn't overly fond of Jodie Whitaker but that also could have been the companions that her Doctor had. I wasn't crazy about any of them. Though that was the series where they worked how to get around the idea that the Doctor and other Time Lords only had 13 incarnations. The Doctor is from another dimension where their true people have the ability to reincarnate as many times as they want. The Doctor was raised by a scientist who figured this out and was able to translate it into Gallifreyian DNA and the Time Lords were born. So to speak. *L*

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They had to retcon a lot of stuff to make the new story they wanted to tell work, is what I heard. This falls under the category of only include what you want to include in a universe that you enjoy. If you like the Whitaker era and the story enough, go ahead and keep all that info. If not, there's nothing forcing anybody to recognize any of it either.

Quote:

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Unless I pick it up on YouTube or it comes out on DVD, this will be the second Doctor I won't have seen. I forgot there was movie that was made up here in BC, in fact filmed around Vancouver with Paul McCann as the Doctor. I managed to miss that.

A friend of mine managed to see the new fellow and she liked him. So, I am reserving judgement until I can get a look see.

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I hear he's a particularly randy one, this new doctor. You probably already heard that he prefers the company of men by now.

I don't know. I just don't get it anymore.

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Well, if I remember right when "Shada" was starting to film there was a strike at the BBC and they just decided to can production period. Pieces of it are on film and the book was actually written for it. I have numerous Doctor Who books from all most all of the Doctors.

I don't mind that they had to do a some rewriting of the character, I mean they never said in the beginning how Gallifreyians came to be known as Time Lords, so they had to explain. And also since they want the show to keep going with different actors, they needed an explanation.

Yeah, my friend told me but it doesn't bother me that much. Hope I can get to see him is all.

The world is a different place from 1963 when the first episode of Doctor Who aired, which was titled, "An Unearthly Child".

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I don't know... My whole point though is why not make your own characters if you believe you've got a story worth telling? They've injected all of this into every beloved classic franchise because they know that nobody would care about their stuff if they made something that catered to them from the ground up.

Nobody outside of a very, very niche group of people needed to see a gay black doctor who risks his companion's life because he's trying to get his rocks off with a gay white man. Especially, I would argue, the kids watching it. It used to be a family show. Now it's just more Disney owned fanfiction that belongs within the confines of DeviantArt.com



I don't agree that they needed to explain anything about the origins of the Time Lords. Just because they could do something, doesn't mean that they should have done it. That's something that they're always trying to do in Hollywood that needs to stop too. We kind of hit on that in the Prey movie thread a while back. The Predator just isn't very scary anymore. We didn't know anything about it in that first movie, and it managed to pretty easily take down a highly specialized group of 'roided out action heroes of the 80's. The mystery surrounding the Predator was terrifying and there's a very good argument against ever having gone into it. They did the same thing with the Star Wars and the Terminator franchise as well.

Less is more, Hollywood. Less is more. Trust your audience and their own imaginations.

And in the case of Dr. Who, the only reason they bothered retconning a new origin story for the Time Lords that they never bothered to go into before was to justify everything they decided they were going to start doing to the show in the last 5 years. None of what they're doing now would have made any sense otherwise. They had to disregard or outright destroy old lore and make up an entirely new origin for them.

I think the entire 2012 to mid 2020's era of Hollywood is going to go down as a period of embarrassment and regret.

--------------------------------------------------

Trump will be fine.
He will also be your next President.

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Got back at 5:45pm today and I won twice. First round and first hand, I had over 3,000points. So finished that round with over 5,000points. Second round no really big hands but managed to finish with over 4,000points anyways.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Got back at 5:45pm today and I won twice. First round and first hand, I had over 3,000points. So finished that round with over 5,000points. Second round no really big hands but managed to finish with over 4,000points anyways.

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Oh wow!
Cool!!


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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Why SECOND'S posts are brainless: "I clocked how much time: no more than 10 minutes per day. With cut-and-paste (Ctrl C and Ctrl V) and AI, none of this takes much time."
Or, any verification or thought.

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Originally posted by Brenda:
As I said SIX, there never really was an origin story for why they are Time Lords.

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In fact I don't think the Doctor's home planet is mentioned during the first Doctor at all. I would have to look it up. Think the first time the Time Lords is brought up was during Patrick Troughton's time and he was the second actor to play the Doctor when he was given a bit of freedom to move the Tardis from time to time. They really came into being as a group during Tom Baker's run as the Doctor. He even got Gallifrey and became President.

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Your opinion SIX. The origin story doesn't bother me.

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Okay, if they are doing that with this new Doctor then yeah they need to back off with it. But as I said I haven't seen it so I don't know.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
As I said SIX, there never really was an origin story for why they are Time Lords.

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Sure. I'll take your word for it. I'm nowhere close to an expert on the show. We don't know what was in those 97 missing episodes and likely never will. I'm sure that over time they had to drop pieces of exposition to at least hint at the origins of the time lords over the decades, even though they never delved deep into the topic before.

My whole point is that nobody needed a fully fleshed out origin story for Time Lords. Just like we didn't need origin stories for the Predators. Or Star Wars. Or (add whatever classic thing here).

*And not to go off on a very related tangent here, but on the topic of Star Wars the latest episode of "The Acolyte" on Disney+ has just retconned the entire universe and now the Jedi's are bad guys.

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In fact I don't think the Doctor's home planet is mentioned during the first Doctor at all. I would have to look it up. Think the first time the Time Lords is brought up was during Patrick Troughton's time and he was the second actor to play the Doctor when he was given a bit of freedom to move the Tardis from time to time. They really came into being as a group during Tom Baker's run as the Doctor. He even got Gallifrey and became President.

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Yeah. You certainly know more about the subject than I do.

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Your opinion SIX. The origin story doesn't bother me.

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That's fine. Everybody is free to enjoy what they want to enjoy. I said before that when it comes to anybody that whatever they believe is canon to a story is what is canon to a story.

The showrunners need to think about what they do to a show when they make drastic changes to it and that includes taking it like big boys and girls when people don't like what they do and tune out. But they never take it like big boys and big girls and they start calling fans of the property sexists and racists and alt-right or whatever other words they chose to use when they want to just come out and call us Nazis for choosing to reject their vision.

When Chris Eccelston brought Dr. Who back, the season average for viewership was 7.95 Million households per episode. That was almost 4 Million more than the last season of the first run when it was cancelled all the way back in 1989. It was considered a major success.

The three seasons that David Tennant played the doctor saw over 7 Million viewers and even hit 8.05 Million for his final season.

Matt Smith as the Dr. saw anywhere from 7.44 Million to 7.73 Million for 3 seasons.


Peter Capaldi was the first drop. It started out strong with 7.26 Million in the first season, but viewership had fallen to 5.46 Million for his 3rd and final year. The word is that the previous younger doctors, particularly Tennant, were a major hit with the young ladies and a lot of them tuned out because of Peter Capaldi's age. This drop was the doorway to all the changes they made to try to keep the show relevant after the mistake of casting Capaldi (or maybe just the possibility that people in the UK were just over Dr. Who for the second time... who knows).



A massive and majorly successful marketing campaign surrounding the first female Dr. Who lead to Jodi Whittaker's first season boosting the viewership up for her first season to 7.96 Million viewers. 2.5 Million additional viewers than the fall of Capaldi, and a number they hadn't seen since Tennant's last season.

This change in direction for the show also came with MAJOR changes including putting a very loud and proud gay man Chris Chibnall in charge of the show. The fact that he was gay shouldn't be relevant, but it's all he ever talks about in interviews and he's been filmed on dozens of occasions actually getting visibly giddy over the idea of pissing off long time fans of the show with the direction he's taken it. Again... calling them all the buzzwords they call fans who don't enjoy what people are turning their beloved characters into.

By season 3 of Jodi Whittaker's run as the doctor, viewership fell all the way down to 4.95 Million. You have to go all the way back to the final Season of the first run in 1989 to find a yearly average household viewership lower than that.


Now with the new(ish) gay black doctor, despite an equally massive marketing push, the first season was only 3.71 Million viewers. 2023 was the lowest viewership on record by 440,000 households. The record formerly held by Season 26 in 1989 at only 4.15 Million. (Again, the year they decided to cancel the show because the numbers were two low).

I can't find exact numbers for the current season of Dr. Who yet, but I did find an article stating that by Episode 3 of his second season, viewership has now fallen to only 2.08 Million households, which was the single lowest watched episode in the history of the 880+ episode show.

The actor told fans to stop watching, so they did. How's it working out?
https://cosmicbook.news/woke-doctor-who-loses-another-400k-viewers

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Okay, if they are doing that with this new Doctor then yeah they need to back off with it. But as I said I haven't seen it so I don't know.

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I hate doing this because if you like the show I want you to like it. I don't want to convince you NOT to enjoy something that you enjoy, just because things happen that I personally don't enjoy. Maybe you watch the final season and you really like it?

I think there really needs to be an understanding among everyone about who is running things behind the scenes and what their agenda is though. I'm pretty sure going forward the studios are going to start taking care of that for us again, at least for the time being. The free low-interest money is gone and the people running these companies can't afford to destroy their viewership numbers (and ad revenue) just because they want to send out messages anymore.


Me personally... I want to know ahead of time who's behind making what I'm going to watch these days.

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Originally posted by Brenda:
'fraid you have to take my word on the origin story for the Time Lords. I started watching the show with Tom Baker's Doctor and found a channel that went back to William Hartnell's Doctor. The FIRST Doctor and have been watching ever since.

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I believe you. Hell... I could imagine that when they started the show they didn't even think of the Time Lords yet. I believe I read that the whole concept of the Doctor being reincarnated into another version was an invention out of necessity when they needed to replace the original Doctor. Things evolve naturally over time. I get that.

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Well, I think in a continuing series like "Dr. Who" sometimes you need to flesh out the character a little more and explain where they come from and such.

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I don't necessarily disagree with this point. But there is a LOT to say about mystery and leaving things to the imagination. I'm all for fleshing out more of a character's back story, but especially in the case of something that has already been beloved by generations of people, only if it ultimately serves to improve upon the original lore enough to warrant removing the mystery.

In the case of Star Wars, even the Man himself George Lucas was guilty of harming the original product when he did things like associate the Force to Science by linking people who could use the force to some sort of genetic mutation having to do with the mitochondria or something or other i don't remember. The thing is, the Force probably came off as maybe being too religious or something, but it was never stated that it was. It was mysterious. Some people had the gift and were drawn to it. Most people didn't. We didn't need to know why it happened. We didn't ever ask.

So he makes that one little change to start that ball rolling, and one day Disney gets their hands on it. They fumble right out of the gate and then they waste no time changing it so much it's not even recognizable anymore and nobody cares about Star Wars anymore.

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There have been 2, I'll call them special episodes over the years where you had other actors come back as the Doctor to stop a villain. Think if memory serves me right the first time brought Patrick Troughton's Doctor and Jon Pertwee's Doctor together, and William Hartnell's Doctor during Jon Pertwee's time as the Doctor. The second time was during Collin Baker's Doctor and it was Patrick Troughton's Doctor who came back. And since they had 2 bad guys from the Doctor's planet, one was the Master who was brought in during Jon Pertwee's time and the Rani who was brought in later, I think during Sylvester McCoy's time. They needed something.

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Interesting. Though I've never really seen the show I've heard and read loads about it. I know that at some point the Special Episodes became a highlight for Dr. Who, and most of the time millions of people who didn't normally tune into the show even tuned in for them. For the longest time I believe they did Christmas episodes, but they stopped doing them under the new showrunners.

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Okay, the idiot that did that to Star Wars needs to be taken out an dealt with by a light saber.

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Right?

But see... at this point I have LONG stopped caring. I expect stuff like this to happen with the people who have been running Lucasfilm into the ground for a better part of a decade now. You saw Indy 5 and know how bad it was...

Did you know they also managed to kill Willow too?

They even brought The Leprechaun himself, Warwick Davis, to play the titular role. And they turned him into a sniveling little simp of a tired old man spending most of his screen time apologizing to anybody else on screen for this or that. Even though he's a midget he's got to apologize to everybody else that he's a straight white male. That's policy at Disney in the 2020s.

The actual heroes of the show are strong independent women who don't need no man. One of them is the baby that wouldn't even be alive today if Willow and Sorsha and Madmartagen didn't save her in the movie. I'm pretty sure she's a lesbian with one of her other friends on screen. Either that or two of her friends are lesbians and they remind you of it every opportunity they get.

And everybody hated it so much that Disney+ buried it forever, and used it as a huge tax write off for 2023. It will never be shown again or sold officially by Disney. The only reason it will still exist is because pirates already had copies of all the episodes floating around out there when they pulled it down.

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Like I said farther up been watching the show for a long time.

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Yeah. That's cool. I've never been into anything even close to that long. Even if they managed to make everything from Star Wars great since the original trilogy, I'm sure I would have lost interest somewhere along the way. I've always kind of envied the "Con" people that get all excited and dress up for the conventions for different things. It's pretty hard for me to even think of anything that would ever get me as excited as any of them get about their conventions.

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Yeah, I remember how big a deal it was when they brought the Doctor back with Christopher Eccelston. As I said I thought he was great in the role and I know the viewership was massive.

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Hah.... yeah. I didn't even know what the hell I was watching when it popped on at 10PM at night or 2AM in the morning and they were re-airing it to fill the dead time where the people getting back from the bars or just still up after late-night TV is over are going to be channel surfing. It still got me interested enough to watch the 5 or so episodes I saw when I was flipping through. The effects and those robot puppets were cheesy as hell, but the show really had a charm about it and a real chemistry between the leads. They actually were able to sell the really poor low budget illusion and get your imagination taking over so you forget you're looking at sets that were made for a local community play. I remember thinking to myself it was like a kid's show but for adults.

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I also love David Tenant as the Doctor. Matt Smith, like I said it took me longer to like him. But I wasn't sad to see the backend of Peter Capaldi. Think that time they got the actor wrong. But Peter Capaldi had been a fan boy of the show growing up and I think that is how he got the job. Not a great idea.

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Interesting. I didn't read that take in the short time I was looking into why the viewership tanked so hard by the end of Capaldi's time. I saw people coming up with various reasons for it, but the only one that really stuck to me was the age of the guy. I could see how die-hards of the show were still fully on board and didn't care about the age of the Doctor in the slightest, but the casuals and the younger crowd might not tune in anymore and find other distractions if you don't bring the eye candy.

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The Doctor was originally cancelled because someone new took over the BBC and they hated the show. So it was canned.

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I didn't know that. I just saw the ratings for the show prior to that year and figured they'd cancelled it based off the numbers. At Dr. Who's peak in 1980, it averaged 11.8 Million households that season. That's an insane amount of people for a country that small. The entire run of Cheers averaged just under 20 Million households viewing. 11.8 for an entire season of a British TV show is just nuts.

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As I said I haven't seen the new Doctor, so can't speak to it. If I can get to see will let you know what I think. I've been watching it for years and just love the show and the character and how the different actors try to blend all the Doctor's personalities together.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
'fraid you have to take my word on the origin story for the Time Lords. I started watching the show with Tom Baker's Doctor and found a channel that went back to William Hartnell's Doctor. The FIRST Doctor and have been watching ever since.

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I believe you. Hell... I could imagine that when they started the show they didn't even think of the Time Lords yet. I believe I read that the whole concept of the Doctor being reincarnated into another version was an invention out of necessity when they needed to replace the original Doctor. Things evolve naturally over time. I get that.

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Well, I think in a continuing series like "Dr. Who" sometimes you need to flesh out the character a little more and explain where they come from and such.

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I don't necessarily disagree with this point. But there is a LOT to say about mystery and leaving things to the imagination. I'm all for fleshing out more of a character's back story, but especially in the case of something that has already been beloved by generations of people, only if it ultimately serves to improve upon the original lore enough to warrant removing the mystery.

In the case of Star Wars, even the Man himself George Lucas was guilty of harming the original product when he did things like associate the Force to Science by linking people who could use the force to some sort of genetic mutation having to do with the mitochondria or something or other i don't remember. The thing is, the Force probably came off as maybe being too religious or something, but it was never stated that it was. It was mysterious. Some people had the gift and were drawn to it. Most people didn't. We didn't need to know why it happened. We didn't ever ask.

So he makes that one little change to start that ball rolling, and one day Disney gets their hands on it. They fumble right out of the gate and then they waste no time changing it so much it's not even recognizable anymore and nobody cares about Star Wars anymore.

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There have been 2, I'll call them special episodes over the years where you had other actors come back as the Doctor to stop a villain. Think if memory serves me right the first time brought Patrick Troughton's Doctor and Jon Pertwee's Doctor together, and William Hartnell's Doctor during Jon Pertwee's time as the Doctor. The second time was during Collin Baker's Doctor and it was Patrick Troughton's Doctor who came back. And since they had 2 bad guys from the Doctor's planet, one was the Master who was brought in during Jon Pertwee's time and the Rani who was brought in later, I think during Sylvester McCoy's time. They needed something.

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Interesting. Though I've never really seen the show I've heard and read loads about it. I know that at some point the Special Episodes became a highlight for Dr. Who, and most of the time millions of people who didn't normally tune into the show even tuned in for them. For the longest time I believe they did Christmas episodes, but they stopped doing them under the new showrunners.

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Okay, the idiot that did that to Star Wars needs to be taken out an dealt with by a light saber.

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Right?

But see... at this point I have LONG stopped caring. I expect stuff like this to happen with the people who have been running Lucasfilm into the ground for a better part of a decade now. You saw Indy 5 and know how bad it was...

Did you know they also managed to kill Willow too?

They even brought The Leprechaun himself, Warwick Davis, to play the titular role. And they turned him into a sniveling little simp of a tired old man spending most of his screen time apologizing to anybody else on screen for this or that. Even though he's a midget he's got to apologize to everybody else that he's a straight white male. That's policy at Disney in the 2020s.

The actual heroes of the show are strong independent women who don't need no man. One of them is the baby that wouldn't even be alive today if Willow and Sorsha and Madmartagen didn't save her in the movie. I'm pretty sure she's a lesbian with one of her other friends on screen. Either that or two of her friends are lesbians and they remind you of it every opportunity they get.

And everybody hated it so much that Disney+ buried it forever, and used it as a huge tax write off for 2023. It will never be shown again or sold officially by Disney. The only reason it will still exist is because pirates already had copies of all the episodes floating around out there when they pulled it down.

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Like I said farther up been watching the show for a long time.

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Yeah. That's cool. I've never been into anything even close to that long. Even if they managed to make everything from Star Wars great since the original trilogy, I'm sure I would have lost interest somewhere along the way. I've always kind of envied the "Con" people that get all excited and dress up for the conventions for different things. It's pretty hard for me to even think of anything that would ever get me as excited as any of them get about their conventions.

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Yeah, I remember how big a deal it was when they brought the Doctor back with Christopher Eccelston. As I said I thought he was great in the role and I know the viewership was massive.

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Hah.... yeah. I didn't even know what the hell I was watching when it popped on at 10PM at night or 2AM in the morning and they were re-airing it to fill the dead time where the people getting back from the bars or just still up after late-night TV is over are going to be channel surfing. It still got me interested enough to watch the 5 or so episodes I saw when I was flipping through. The effects and those robot puppets were cheesy as hell, but the show really had a charm about it and a real chemistry between the leads. They actually were able to sell the really poor low budget illusion and get your imagination taking over so you forget you're looking at sets that were made for a local community play. I remember thinking to myself it was like a kid's show but for adults.

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I also love David Tenant as the Doctor. Matt Smith, like I said it took me longer to like him. But I wasn't sad to see the backend of Peter Capaldi. Think that time they got the actor wrong. But Peter Capaldi had been a fan boy of the show growing up and I think that is how he got the job. Not a great idea.

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Interesting. I didn't read that take in the short time I was looking into why the viewership tanked so hard by the end of Capaldi's time. I saw people coming up with various reasons for it, but the only one that really stuck to me was the age of the guy. I could see how die-hards of the show were still fully on board and didn't care about the age of the Doctor in the slightest, but the casuals and the younger crowd might not tune in anymore and find other distractions if you don't bring the eye candy.

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The Doctor was originally cancelled because someone new took over the BBC and they hated the show. So it was canned.

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I didn't know that. I just saw the ratings for the show prior to that year and figured they'd cancelled it based off the numbers. At Dr. Who's peak in 1980, it averaged 11.8 Million households that season. That's an insane amount of people for a country that small. The entire run of Cheers averaged just under 20 Million households viewing. 11.8 for an entire season of a British TV show is just nuts.

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As I said I haven't seen the new Doctor, so can't speak to it. If I can get to see will let you know what I think. I've been watching it for years and just love the show and the character and how the different actors try to blend all the Doctor's personalities together.

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When you get around to watching it let me know. I hope they don't let you down.



--------------------------------------------------

Trump will be fine.
He will also be your next President.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Lazy Sunday around me but I managed to get some sleep last night. Couldn't Saturday night for whatever reason. Still into the 70s here but I did dream of rain last night.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
You know when they started the show I don't think they had a real plan for it. It was something to fill a half hour to an hour slot on a Saturday afternoon for children. *L* It probably was.

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I didn't know it was originally a Saturday children program. That's pretty funny. I think they must have carried some of that all the way through, at least up until the Chris Eccleston episodes I watched. Just something about it made me think that it was a kids show, but for adults.

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William Hartnell was already and older man was getting sick. I remember watching the first episode as the Doctor's granddaughter was attending a local school, and a couple of her teachers were getting worried about her. They followed her home one day to a junkyard and watched her go in. They went in and found an old blue police box with the door unlock and kept going. The was displeased but his granddaughter Susan got him to let them stay, so they were the first companions.

---

That sounds so much different than what I was watching 20 years ago. Almost like an entirely different show altogether.

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I can agree with you there on the Doctor and like I said since every 3 years except for Tom Baker they kept replacing the actors. And I can agree on it adding mystery to the character. So, I can't disagree with the writers and everyone now. And it's been at that time almost 30years since the Doctor first aired in the UK.

You have a point about George making a mistake making a scientific explanation for the FORCE. He should have just left it like Yoda explained to Luke in "Empire". The Force binds everything together and there is no whys to it. It just is.

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Yeah. I'm not saying that you can't ever go into the history of a character in order to enrich the story. I just can't think of a time where it was done that it improved the story or the character, but I can think of legions of them that did the opposite.

Outside of things we've already discussed, they outright destroyed the character of Morphius from The Matrix and made him middle-management of a tribe that proved to be fairly incompetent and not very long for this world. He was the biggest casualty of the Matrix sequels, but far from the only one. The original movie was just about as close as you could come to making the perfect movie, but it was so devalued by those extra 5 hours they tacked on the end of it.

They don't care about what I think though. It made them more than half a billion dollars richer, and there isn't any words I could string together correctly to convince anybody who profited off of the sequels that they did the wrong thing.

Quote:

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Those two special episodes were great as you got to see different aspects of the Doctor's personality. And you could say, "Ooooh, that's where say Collin Baker got that idea for the Doctor." They did make Christmas shows and I think I have seen all of those ones. They were usually pretty good but being Christmas shows is what made them special.

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Yeah. I bet that was cool. Even though I never saw Andrew Garfield or Tom Holland as Spider-Man, I had a really fun time watching all 3 Spider-Men from parallel universes work together.

I actually really like parallel universe stories and the idea of parallel universes in general. It gets a LOT of hate online, but I think that's because Disney and Warner Bros were just outright abusing the hell out of it for profiteering for so long and even people who aren't into sci-fi just look at the whole idea of a Multiverse as a pathetic cash grab.

It's a good thing. It's just in the wrong hands right now is all.

Quote:

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Totally. I get that the writers and such probably have stopped caring but it's not fair to the fan base that keep the thing going.

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Yeah...

Imagine if FOX finally said yes to the 2nd season, but they replace Joss Whedon everybody in front of and behind the camera who's never done that job before but fills a quota. Not something I'm ever going to watch...

Quote:

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I never saw Willow and don't know much about the movie at all.

---

The movie was great and it didn't need a sequel. Even a really great 8 episode show would have been unnecessary, especially this long after the movie came out. But what we ended up getting was so bad that Disney is now legally bound to never release it in any form for profit now that they've used the entire production as a tax write off. The gay writers and gay actors and gay showrunners were all coming out and slamming Disney for doing that to a production that was so loudly and proudly gay.

And I don't like being the person to sit there and harp on "gay this and gay that". I think I'm like most people and I just don't care about it is all. If the other party is consenting, by all means you go right on ahead and have sex with whoever you want to have sex with. I just don't want to read about it on the internet every day, or have it pushed in my face with ads every day, or live in a world where the most sexually degenerate people (and I'm referring to the ones that are into things WELL beyond just some casual boring same sex sex that attached their letters to LGB) are a protected class that currently has the loudest bullhorn.

I only even bring up the gay thing because the gay people they hired to make all the old shows and movies gay can't stop talking about gay and being gay and being proud about being gay and gay, gay, gay.

I think some of the smarter ones know that the grift is up. A lot of people are being laid off now, and a good deal of the departments that were in charge of hiring them have been removed from companies who were so loudly and proudly proclaiming their creation when they were formed. We had too many years there where a company didn't mind losing $100 Million or more on a show or movie as long as they got their message out. That money is gone now. They have to go back to making things that people want to watch again and hope that the old audience will still be interested.

Quote:

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Yeah, the first episode I caught with Tom Baker all those years ago was on around midnight on a channel from down Washington State. Nothing to watch so I was curious and yes things were laughable it still had a good story and good characters. So I kept watching.

---

Do you remember around how old you were then?

I only ask because I think had it been a different time in my life I would have had a much different relationship with Dr. Who. I didn't experience it in any form until I was well beyond the childhood years where I'm sure I would have tuned in every week. But it was way before streaming too. At that point in my life I was just so busy living I didn't have time to get into any TV shows. I usually only watched movies then. The few shows I was into were things like Chappelle's Show where there was no story and you could pop into any episode and not worry that you're not missing something.

Quote:

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That is what my friend and I heard at the time. Don't think she was too fond of Capaldi either as the Doctor. We both loved David Tenant and she liked Matt Smith better than me. Well, by this run of Doctor's he was the oldest and Matt Smith was the youngest actor to get the gig. So it made a huge difference.

That's what my friend and I heard. We used to and still do follow all the Doctor Who news.

I will. Just hope I can find it.

---

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Lazy Sunday around me but I managed to get some sleep last night. Couldn't Saturday night for whatever reason. Still into the 70s here but I did dream of rain last night.

---

I guess I'm not the only one with sleep problems.


-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Why SECOND'S posts are brainless: "I clocked how much time: no more than 10 minutes per day. With cut-and-paste (Ctrl C and Ctrl V) and AI, none of this takes much time."
Or, any verification or thought.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
You know when they started the show I don't think they had a real plan for it. It was something to fill a half hour to an hour slot on a Saturday afternoon for children. *L* It probably was.

---

I didn't know it was originally a Saturday children program. That's pretty funny. I think they must have carried some of that all the way through, at least up until the Chris Eccleston episodes I watched. Just something about it made me think that it was a kids show, but for adults.

Quote:

---

William Hartnell was already and older man was getting sick. I remember watching the first episode as the Doctor's granddaughter was attending a local school, and a couple of her teachers were getting worried about her. They followed her home one day to a junkyard and watched her go in. They went in and found an old blue police box with the door unlock and kept going. The was displeased but his granddaughter Susan got him to let them stay, so they were the first companions.

---

That sounds so much different than what I was watching 20 years ago. Almost like an entirely different show altogether.

Quote:

---

I can agree with you there on the Doctor and like I said since every 3 years except for Tom Baker they kept replacing the actors. And I can agree on it adding mystery to the character. So, I can't disagree with the writers and everyone now. And it's been at that time almost 30years since the Doctor first aired in the UK.

You have a point about George making a mistake making a scientific explanation for the FORCE. He should have just left it like Yoda explained to Luke in "Empire". The Force binds everything together and there is no whys to it. It just is.

---

Yeah. I'm not saying that you can't ever go into the history of a character in order to enrich the story. I just can't think of a time where it was done that it improved the story or the character, but I can think of legions of them that did the opposite.

Outside of things we've already discussed, they outright destroyed the character of Morphius from The Matrix and made him middle-management of a tribe that proved to be fairly incompetent and not very long for this world. He was the biggest casualty of the Matrix sequels, but far from the only one. The original movie was just about as close as you could come to making the perfect movie, but it was so devalued by those extra 5 hours they tacked on the end of it.

They don't care about what I think though. It made them more than half a billion dollars richer, and there isn't any words I could string together correctly to convince anybody who profited off of the sequels that they did the wrong thing.

Quote:

---

Those two special episodes were great as you got to see different aspects of the Doctor's personality. And you could say, "Ooooh, that's where say Collin Baker got that idea for the Doctor." They did make Christmas shows and I think I have seen all of those ones. They were usually pretty good but being Christmas shows is what made them special.

---

Yeah. I bet that was cool. Even though I never saw Andrew Garfield or Tom Holland as Spider-Man, I had a really fun time watching all 3 Spider-Men from parallel universes work together.

I actually really like parallel universe stories and the idea of parallel universes in general. It gets a LOT of hate online, but I think that's because Disney and Warner Bros were just outright abusing the hell out of it for profiteering for so long and even people who aren't into sci-fi just look at the whole idea of a Multiverse as a pathetic cash grab.

It's a good thing. It's just in the wrong hands right now is all.

Quote:

---

Totally. I get that the writers and such probably have stopped caring but it's not fair to the fan base that keep the thing going.

---

Yeah...

Imagine if FOX finally said yes to the 2nd season, but they replace Joss Whedon everybody in front of and behind the camera who's never done that job before but fills a quota. Not something I'm ever going to watch...

Quote:

---

I never saw Willow and don't know much about the movie at all.

---

The movie was great and it didn't need a sequel. Even a really great 8 episode show would have been unnecessary, especially this long after the movie came out. But what we ended up getting was so bad that Disney is now legally bound to never release it in any form for profit now that they've used the entire production as a tax write off. The gay writers and gay actors and gay showrunners were all coming out and slamming Disney for doing that to a production that was so loudly and proudly gay.

And I don't like being the person to sit there and harp on "gay this and gay that". I think I'm like most people and I just don't care about it is all. If the other party is consenting, by all means you go right on ahead and have sex with whoever you want to have sex with. I just don't want to read about it on the internet every day, or have it pushed in my face with ads every day, or live in a world where the most sexually degenerate people (and I'm referring to the ones that are into things WELL beyond just some casual boring same sex sex that attached their letters to LGB) are a protected class that currently has the loudest bullhorn.

I only even bring up the gay thing because the gay people they hired to make all the old shows and movies gay can't stop talking about gay and being gay and being proud about being gay and gay, gay, gay.

I think some of the smarter ones know that the grift is up. A lot of people are being laid off now, and a good deal of the departments that were in charge of hiring them have been removed from companies who were so loudly and proudly proclaiming their creation when they were formed. We had too many years there where a company didn't mind losing $100 Million or more on a show or movie as long as they got their message out. That money is gone now. They have to go back to making things that people want to watch again and hope that the old audience will still be interested.

Quote:

---

Yeah, the first episode I caught with Tom Baker all those years ago was on around midnight on a channel from down Washington State. Nothing to watch so I was curious and yes things were laughable it still had a good story and good characters. So I kept watching.

---

Do you remember around how old you were then?

I only ask because I think had it been a different time in my life I would have had a much different relationship with Dr. Who. I didn't experience it in any form until I was well beyond the childhood years where I'm sure I would have tuned in every week. But it was way before streaming too. At that point in my life I was just so busy living I didn't have time to get into any TV shows. I usually only watched movies then. The few shows I was into were things like Chappelle's Show where there was no story and you could pop into any episode and not worry that you're not missing something.

Quote:

---

That is what my friend and I heard at the time. Don't think she was too fond of Capaldi either as the Doctor. We both loved David Tenant and she liked Matt Smith better than me. Well, by this run of Doctor's he was the oldest and Matt Smith was the youngest actor to get the gig. So it made a huge difference.

That's what my friend and I heard. We used to and still do follow all the Doctor Who news.

I will. Just hope I can find it.

---

I hope that if you do that you're still glad you found it after you did.


But what I really hope is that they fix the staffing issues over there at the BBC and fix the show for the fans.

Has your friend been keeping up with the new show?

--------------------------------------------------

Trump will be fine.
He will also be your next President.

---

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I didn't realize they had made Willow sequels.

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Quote:

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The only thing I remember from the first was the sheer physicality of Val Kilmer's performance. That, and there was an extended sword fight scene as I recall. The choreography was inventive: a couple dozen way to use a sword (blade edge, tip, pommel, flat, guard etc.)
When I looked it up I found this

“We wanted to find a style of sword fighting that was different, and we came up with something that had elements of juggling in it,” Kilmer said. “I didn’t even know I could juggle.”- Val Kilmer

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Crazy storm just ripped through here.

My old man says he's never seen that many tornadoes touch down in our area at once.

Lost power 3 times but only briefly. I thought for sure I'd already be out there firing up the generator.

I think everything's okay now. Heard back from everybody that they're okay except for my aunt, but this is WAY past her bed time. I'm hoping she slept right through it. I'm sure it's fine. My old man had been tracking the stuff and knew it was basically over around his area by the time it was hitting me. She lives close. If he was worried about her he'd have said something.

--------------------------------------------------

Trump will be fine.
He will also be your next President.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Crazy storm just ripped through here.

My old man says he's never seen that many tornadoes touch down in our area at once.

Lost power 3 times but only briefly. I thought for sure I'd already be out there firing up the generator.

I think everything's okay now. Heard back from everybody that they're okay except for my aunt, but this is WAY past her bed time. I'm hoping she slept right through it. I'm sure it's fine. My old man had been tracking the stuff and knew it was basically over around his area by the time it was hitting me. She lives close. If he was worried about her he'd have said something.

--------------------------------------------------

Trump will be fine.
He will also be your next President.

---

It was crazy in WNYS a few days ago too. FOUR tornadoes in that area.
According to sis, it was the back end of Beryl. But that's all done, right? So where is this storm activity coming from? And will WNYS see round 2? Does your dad know what's causing this?

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I still have "tornado" nightmares (thanks, "Wizard of Oz"!) and they all seem to involve swarms of tornadoes happening at night.

I'm glad I'm not there!

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I still have "tornado" nightmares (thanks, "Wizard of Oz"!) and they all seem to involve swarms of tornadoes happening at night.

I'm glad I'm not there!

---

Boy... Yeah.

I still don't know what the damage is. I just got my internet back. Pretty strange occurance here this time...

About 3 hours after the storms my internet crapped out. I went to sleep watching a movie and it still wasn't on when I woke up. At 4:30PM I decided to mess around with things on my end and see if I could fix it.

But now I couldn't get connected to my home network at all from any device and it was asking me for my network password, which wasn't working. Somehow, about 3-4 hours after I got a few brown-out power hits, the router/modem somehow factory reset itself. So I'm not even sure if I actually lost my internet service at all. Once I figured all this out it was easy to set everything up from scratch and get back online.

Kind of nice not knowing what was going on in the world most of the day.



--------------------------------------------------

Trump will be fine.
He will also be your next President.

---