The Pope is dead. by christhecynic

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Pope is dead.

POSTED BY: CHRISTHECYNIC
UPDATED: Saturday, April 9, 2005 09:03
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VIEWED: 3036
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Saturday, April 2, 2005 11:39 AM

That's all, he's dead. I figured that if any of you came here before watching the news it would be best to see it up front rather than talk about him in another thread not knowing he was gone.

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Saturday, April 2, 2005 12:03 PM

CYBERSNARK

This is indeed a sad day.

"Eternal life grant unto him, and may perpetual light shine upon him." --Rev Bem

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, April 3, 2005 4:42 PM

0REAVER0

i they talked about what he had down throughout his years as pope and he was an amazing man
P.s. he visited 3 us presidents which no other pope had done just a fun fact

0Reaver0

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Sunday, April 3, 2005 5:15 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by 0Reaver0:
i they talked about what he had down throughout his years as pope and he was an amazing man
P.s. he visited 3 us presidents which no other pope had done just a fun fact

0Reaver0

And in 2002 he flew direct from Toronto to Mexico snubbing your President Bush.

The Man had principles ( and standards )

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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 12:43 AM

PIRATEJENNY

Quote:
Originally posted by 0Reaver0:
i they talked about what he had down throughout his years as pope and he was an amazing man
P.s. he visited 3 us presidents which no other pope had done just a fun fact

0Reaver0

I keep hearing about how great and amazing the Pope was...can someone please explain to me what was so great and amazing about the man because I hardly think visting 3 U.S presidents which no other Pope had done qualifies or maybe my standards are just higher!!!

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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 12:46 AM

ZOOT

Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
Quote:
Originally posted by 0Reaver0:
i they talked about what he had down throughout his years as pope and he was an amazing man
P.s. he visited 3 us presidents which no other pope had done just a fun fact

0Reaver0

I keep hearing about how great and amazing the Pope was...can someone please explain to me what was so great and amazing about the man because I hardly think visting 3 U.S presidents which no other Pope had done qualifies or maybe my standards are just higher!!!

Apparently telling people in the third world that condoms are the work of the devil and assisting in the spread of aids and the death of many Africans is cause enough for sainthood . . .

(BTW that's irony)

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 2:18 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
I keep hearing about how great and amazing the Pope was...can someone please explain to me what was so great and amazing about the man because I hardly think visting 3 U.S presidents which no other Pope had done qualifies or maybe my standards are just higher!!!

Well, you should read up on Pope John Paul II, then. You’ll find him to be a very courageous and principled person who took ethical stands against some of the gravest dangers our world has faced, while tempered with mercy. That alone should award him the accolades he has received on his death bed, but even without that, history will remember him as being one of the men who stood up against communism and was instrumental in its final collapse, at great risk to his own life. But I don’t want to ruin the ending, go to the bookstore or library and ask where the books on Pope John Paul II are. There should be plenty to choose from.

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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 2:23 AM

ZOOT

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
I keep hearing about how great and amazing the Pope was...can someone please explain to me what was so great and amazing about the man because I hardly think visting 3 U.S presidents which no other Pope had done qualifies or maybe my standards are just higher!!!
Well, you should read up on Pope John Paul II, then. You’ll find him to be a very courageous and principled person who took ethical stands against some of the gravest dangers our world has faced, while tempered with mercy. That alone should award him the accolades he has received on his death bed, but even without that, history will remember him as being one of the men who stood up against communism and was instrumental in its final collapse, at great risk to his own life. But I don’t want to ruin the ending, go to the bookstore or library and ask where the books on Pope John Paul II are. There should be plenty to choose from.

Ah well, anyone that stands up to communism . . . what with capitalism being such a force for good . .
(just flexing my irony muscles) . .

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 2:31 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:
Ah well, anyone that stands up to communism . . . what with capitalism being such a force for good . .
(just flexing my irony muscles) . .

Sounds like you probably need to get one of those books yourself.

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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 2:40 AM

ZOOT

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:
Ah well, anyone that stands up to communism . . . what with capitalism being such a force for good . .
(just flexing my irony muscles) . .
Sounds like you probably need to get one of those books yourself.

Not sure its my kinda read . . .

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 10:25 AM

0REAVER0

Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
Quote:
Originally posted by 0Reaver0:
i they talked about what he had down throughout his years as pope and he was an amazing man
P.s. he visited 3 us presidents which no other pope had done just a fun fact

0Reaver0

I keep hearing about how great and amazing the Pope was...can someone please explain to me what was so great and amazing about the man because I hardly think visting 3 U.S presidents which no other Pope had done qualifies or maybe my standards are just higher!!!

ok heres s0ome good info and good things the man did to help are society http://www.vatican.va/news_services/press/documentazione/documents/san
topadre_biografie/giovanni_paolo_ii_biografia_breve_en.html

0Reaver0

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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 1:23 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Pope John Paul II left a mixed legacy.

As a person who saw the worst humanity had to offer, he responded with a deep and undivided love of human life, and a morality of love and courage. He took principled stands on human life and death, without quibble or exception. He was against birth control and abortion, the death penalty, war, and Communism and capitalism both. He eschewed divisions and hatred.

Mostly, I think people responded to his obvious love, which couldn't be faked.

Oh the other hand, Church doctrine ended up cemented in the past, and less relevant.

But perhaps he sparked a search for love and courage within individuals.

And revolution, or revelation, begins with individuals.

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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 2:03 PM

0REAVER0

very nicely put

0Reaver0

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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 2:57 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

My favorite was Pope John XXIII. I heard more about loving your neighbor as yourself during those days than I heard from John Paul II. It seems that even the parish priests got the word- most of their sermons were about the Publican and the Pharisee, or the rich man, the camel and the eye of a needle, or "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". I definitely got the message of the New Testament then. Past few years - not so much.

It's one thing to be pro-life. I can see how that would lead you to resist senseless wars, the death penalty, and abortion. I suppose if you assume that human life begins with fertilization and also assume that some forms of birth control prevent implantation (as opposed to preventing ovulation) then you could also be against the IUD and the morning-after pill. But CONDOMS???? The only thing I can figure from THAT stance is that John Paul II assumed that Catholics should breed like bunnies and make the church more "successful".

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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 4:20 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I can't say that I agreed with everything he promoted.
You're 100% right that his stand on condoms is non-sensical. I also personally disagree with his stand on abortion, gays, sex abuse and women in the Church, among other things.
But his love which gave substance to his ideas gave pause, I hope. Perhaps people slowed down to consider the easy exceptions and convenient double standards they might otherwise have accepted without thought.
If that is true, then he sowed the seeds of change.

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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 8:01 PM

PIRATEJENNY

Quote:
Well, you should read up on Pope John Paul II, then. You’ll find him to be a very courageous and principled person who took ethical stands against some of the gravest dangers our world has faced,

he hardly seems like a ethical or moral man to me, he supported child molestation with his actions, their was a policy within the church to cover up child sexual abuse and move the priest to other parishes in some cases even changing the names.

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Friday, April 8, 2005 2:53 PM

FAY

That sounds horible. I never liked the man anyways, but this makes me dislike him even more. I know he has died, I watched the barial yesturday, but it does not stop me from thinking he was not that good of a man. He may have beed a courageous and principled person who took ethical stands against some of the gravest dangers like FINN MAC CUMHAL said, but that is how you vew him and not like others do. I mean he did go against abortion and many other rights that we have now as well as protect guilty prists like piratejenny wrote. That's just my opinion.

Anna

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Friday, April 8, 2005 6:14 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
he supported child molestation with his actions, their was a policy within the church to cover up child sexual abuse and move the priest to other parishes in some cases even changing the names.

That's a fairly horrific and ignorant thing to say. This man was in his 80's, suffered from Parkinsons disease and was racked w/ pain for most of his last days on Earth. Hold the H.R.C.C. to task all you want, but if you think that this man " supported child molestation" , then you're delusional. I'm not even Catholic - not by a long shot - but at least I can acknowledge that this man was a kind soul and very genuine. Not that I agree w/ even all that the H.R.C.C. teaches, and I have big time issues w/ how they've handled their scandals. But making comments about how he 'supported' this or that gives the clear impression that you're a clueless git.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, April 8, 2005 7:33 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Just some random thoughts that have been floating around my head for the past few days...

There's a lot to like about Karol Wojtyla as a person (as Rue, AURaptor and others have mentioned). The man clearly had a lot of love and compassion in him. As a Pope, I'm not familiar enough with his various positions to talk about that. At times he was praised in the US (from the right, that was often for his stance against birth control, etc. From the left, that was often for his stance against the death penalty, etc.). At times he was vilified in the US (that was often for his stance against the Iraq War, among other things). I guess the overriding question is: Was he a good Pope for the Catholic Church at this period of time?

For quite a long period the only time I ever heard about some countries was when the Pope visited them. And there were always tons of people who were genuinely rejoicing at his presence. Probably moreso than any previous pontiff he ministered to the worldwide church actively. I was raised in a Protestant denomination so I'll probably never understand, on a gut level, what it means for a Catholic to see the Pope in person.

One note of cognitive dissonance, for me at least. I remember there were certain fringes in our denomination who, in their eschatological discussions, interpreted the anti-Christ as being the Pope. These fringes were beyond right-wing, so it's weird for me to see some other right-wing Protestants expressing almost fawning admiration about the Pope. That's what I get for expecting every denominations extremists to be as kooky as the one I was raised in, I guess.

---------------------
Next up: Early "Nutcrusher" Jubal and the Firebuggers

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Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:03 AM

HELL'S KITTEN

And, yep....

Still dead.

无党派人士

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