A New Pope by Connorflynn

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A New Pope

POSTED BY: CONNORFLYNN
UPDATED: Sunday, May 1, 2005 07:13
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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 7:52 AM

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany has been selected by the Roman Catholic church as the new pope. He will be known as Pope Benedict XVI.

He is 78 years old and about as hardline as you can possibly get.

I am a Roman Catholic, non-practicing for the last several years because of doctrinal belief differences. I spent 10 years as an Altar boy and 3 as a Head Altar boy under the watchful eye of Father Rosello. I was confirmed by Bishop Head. I remember the day clearly, when I was confirmed. I'm normally not an ultra spiritual person. When I stood with all my class mates and watched as the Bishop Processed between us, I remember feeling the power and energy and aura this man carried with him. On that Day I believed in God, a God --maybe not Catholicism's God, but a Supreme being. I was 17 years old.

I stayed a practicing Catholic for another 6 or 7 years. I went to confession every 2 weeks and went to Mass every Sunday. It all changed when
my brother was basically excommunicated because he made it public that he is gay. He was refused communion even though he and I had served 100's of masses. The doctrine of the church dictated that action. I found it wrong as I feel the Church is wrong about it's stance on Contraception and wrong about it's stance on priests and marriage among other things.

I felt sadness the day Pope John Paul II passed away. For me, it was a day of reminiscing and a day of reflection I guess. I remember a flamboyant priest named Father Mack , who when he spoke held a congregation in thrall. He wasn't the standard run of the mill snorefest speaker. He really had things to say and belived in those things. He was de-frocked for preaching counter to the Standard Roman Catholic doctrine. He was considered too rambunctious and subversive. He was 33 at the time. He was the last priest I heard speak.

Catholicism needs more young priests who speak out for what is right and not just about tradition.

For the life of me I can't figure out why on earth the Catholic Church would pick one of the most vigorously conservative Cardinals as Pope, when they are running out of young followers and running out of new priests.

The Church needs reform, not further stagnation. The Church needs new, young blood. Not Depression Era philosophy.

Man am I depressed now. I had hoped that this by chance would be the beginning of a New Catholic Era, where tolerance became the rule.

Ah well..I ramble..Maybe this would've been better in a blog.

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:08 AM

XENOCIDE

Well the man's 78 so in not-less-than-5-years the conclave will get another stab at it, probably. It saddens me to see the Church moving farther from the love that christ taught, but then for the Catholic Church temporal power has often been more important than agape.

-Eli

If voting mattered, they'd make it illegal.

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

The BEST thing about this new Pope is that he's 78 years old. In five more years, they'll be looking for a new one. (Maybe God will take him home sooner- I can only hope.) Unfortunately, John Paul II and Ratzinger between them will have appointed pretty much all the Cardinals, making the next conclave about as conservative as this one. I think what this means is that the RCC will pretty much spin into irrelevance.

As a side note: Don't you find it odd that many of the Jewish-based religions (Judaism, RCCism, Protestantism and Islam) suddenly seem to have discovered regressive tendencies all at the same time? Suddenly, we have "fundamentalists" of ALL kinds behaving like general *ssholes. The only thing that I can think is that they (we?) are reacting to the same world-wide phenomenon, which I suppose is global capitalism and the culture of greed. Unfortunatley, instead of moving forward, it looks like they (we?) want to tunnel into the past.

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:35 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Considering that the last Pope was regarded as having been quite successful and instrumental in invigorating a younger Catholic audience, it would seem to me that by sticking with a Cardinal known to follow closely with John Paul II that the Church may indeed be attempting to continuing the previous Pope’s efforts in bringing in “new, young blood,” as it were. As far as the younger generation of Catholics and Catholic priests, it is my understanding that they tend to be more conservative and traditional then the previous generation of priest. The choice of a conservative Pope is in tune, I think, with the growing movement of traditionalism, brought into the church by younger priests. So I tend to believe that the Church made an appropriate choice in electing the new Pope.

Not that I don't think some things could use some revamping, and nor do I believe that this new Pope won't necessarily do that.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 5:17 PM

KIRIKOLI

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
As a side note: Don't you find it odd that many of the Jewish-based religions (Judaism, RCCism, Protestantism and Islam) suddenly seem to have discovered regressive tendencies all at the same time? Suddenly, we have "fundamentalists" of ALL kinds behaving like general *ssholes. The only thing that I can think is that they (we?) are reacting to the same world-wide phenomenon, which I suppose is global capitalism and the culture of greed.

I hadn't really thought about it, but you're right, it does seem odd that all the major religions' fundamentalists are becoming more active.

Or could it be that fundamentalists are taking advantage of current issues to steal the limelight and we're simply paying more attention to them now?

I dunno, but it seems to me that global capitalism and greed have been a long time in the making and things like science and a more universal form of debate have arisen to the point where everyone has an opinion as to where religion should exist in society. Regardless of who is right or who will prevail, I don't think religion was ever in the domain of public opinion quite as it is now and their response may be conservatism.

Plus, there the fact that, in the US at least, there are more and more people who say they belong to an organized religion but then interprete that religion as they see it fitting into their own lives (i.e. Catholics using birth control, not going to Church every Sunday, etc). It would take a very liberal religion to attempt to allow people to make their own interpretations without the valid concern that it will tear the religion apart.

But then there are tons of other places besides the US where religion is very strong and very strict so I'm just speculating.

As to the new Pope...I'm also disappointed they chose someone so conservative, though hardly surprised.

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 5:39 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

John Paul II was a good man but a misguided (I believe) administrator.

Benedict the XVI is not a good man, and will be just as misguided an administrator, if not more so.

Perhaps John Paul II made his personal peace with Nazis and befriended one. The best thing I can say about Benedict is, at least he's old.

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 6:20 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirikoli:
I hadn't really thought about it, but you're right, it does seem odd that all the major religions' fundamentalists are becoming more active.

Or could it be that fundamentalists are taking advantage of current issues to steal the limelight and we're simply paying more attention to them now?

I think that’s a reasonable possibility.

I’m not so sure that fundamentalists are necessarily more active across the board though, and even less certain that any one cause can be attributed to the movements of fundamentalists in all the Judaic religions of the world. It’s probably impossible to make such generalizations considering the breadth of cultures and politics that these religions encompass, but blaming it all on capitalism seems dumb; that doesn’t even make sense.

In the case of the Roman Catholic Church I think there is a movement towards more Conservatism. I’m not sure why, but a good guess would be that it is in response to rabid secularism, which has significantly eroded the Churches influence in Western Europe, among other places. The church has remained strong in other areas, particularly Latin American, but I think that many Catholics are disheartened to see so much of the Churches influence wane in what has basically been the cradle of Roman Catholicism for over a thousand years.

Or maybe people have decided that Conservatism is a good approach. Certainly I think that is true in some cases, such as abortion. I think that the levity with which so much of Postmodern Secularism applies to abortion is troubling to many people, and has served to help emboldened the traditionalist movement in the Roman Catholic Church. Many people disagree with the Catholic Church’s position on abortion, but I think they tend to disagree more with an attitude that seems to many to be advocating a culture of infanticide. That’s just one example of a possible cause; I’m sure the reasons on whole are myriad and complex.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005 7:53 PM

JASONZZZ

Well. Benedict was only a Nazi Youth when he was 14. He said that he didn't like it, so I guess we'll just have to take his word for it.. Lord, just read yet another article where Ratzinger already has a media nickname... No, not Papa Ratzi, it's Papa-Nazi. Hang-on, how many more Pope do we have to go thru before the Anti-Christ? oh wait, or are we there already?

or...

BTW, April 20th would be Hitler's 116th BDay...

Coincidence? I think not...

HITLER YOUTH Marches on CD 21 + 1 Bonus Track Nazi Hitler Youth Songs on CD in excellent condition. Remastered from original 78 rpm records. NOW with CD-TEXT for your CD player. Tracks are: 1. Schier dreissig Jahre bist du alt 2. Stuermende Jugend 3. Junge Mannschaft im Sudosten 4. Schwur der Hitlerjugend 5. Wenn alle untreu werden 6. Uns geht die Sonne nicht unter 7. Auf, hebt unsere Fahnen in den frischen Morgenwind 8. HitlerJugend Marsch 9. Die Jugend marschiert 10. Heldenjugend 11. Und im Grase singt eine Grille 12. Solang" wir Jung Sind 13. Regimentskinder 14. Deutschlands Heldensoehne 15. Ich bin der Bub vom Fuldatal 16. Hohe Tannen 17. Narvik Lied 18. Morgen marschieren wir (Marsch der SSDiv.HJ) 19. Uns kann Keiner 20. Horst Wessels Lied 21. Auf zum Kampf Bonus Track: 22. JUGEND WILL MARSCHIEREN !ns1024

and other feedbacks in the states already...

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:25 AM

SCOTTISHBROWNCOAT

Real nice folks, and that Nazi Flag is a real fair touch

that picture has no class.

Basically who would want a Pope that feels that his church is not the only way to go?
I would not want my spiritual leader to be all wishy-washy about the faith he is the leader of.
I would want a leader that held up truths as Truth and still understood the need for interfaith dialogue, as this pope has said himself that the need for interfaith dialogue is crucial.

Pope Benedict deserves a fair shake, he was appointed into the position he held under Pope John II and took the office only because he believed in what the Pope was doing. Also he was VOTED as Pope, he didn't take it in some millitary coup, so please give the man some time to see how he actually does as Pope before we start railing against him.

And as far as Non-Practicing Catholics go, They are always the first to complain, but yet are never there to help fight for reforms or change in their churches.
In my understanding(My wife and Children are Roman Catholic, as well as my Mother and her side of the family), The Catholic church is a fluid cultural and religious instutition, if you don't agree with something, bailing is not the solution.

As far as his conservative policies go...
the Gay issue: name me one World religious leader that supports the Gay lifestyle?
Not even the Dalai Lama supports being Gay, he calls it "UNnatural"

Women as Priests: the Majority of catholics 80% do not want to see this, so he is simply holding up the majority of the Catholics wishes, what is wrong with that?(I am talking the Catholic world not just American Catholics who tend to feel that only their opinion counts.)

Married Priests: There are Married priests, they are in the Eastern Rite of the Catholic church, any Catholic man interested in becoming a priest after getting married can change to one of these rites at any time and still remain within the Holy See, it is as simple as that. Just ask your Bishop or Priest if you don't believe me.
The Latin Rite only has a few married priests, but they are there. That is simply the way of the Latin Rite, it is not for everyone, but alas, it is there.

As far as Pope Benedict being a member of Hitler Youth as a Child, it has been proven that his membership as well as the majority of Hitler youth was compulsory. He did not like the experience, he said so himself, he was just a child at the time. He, like most young German children at the time had no Idea of the reality of Hitler or the Nazi Party, they were just fed the stories of their Glory, but not of the gritty horrible reality.
He wrote much of the famed documents given by the church apologizing for past atrocities committed to the Jewish people in the name of the Church, and he has been a supporter of Pope John Paul's reforms and of Vatican II, and Pope Benedict has pledged to continue along the path laid out by the last Pope.

Only time will tell if he is a Great, Good, Fair, or Bad Pope, but lets not made a decision now until we see what happens.

And as far as I am concerned I have no problem with him, or his Past with Hitler Youth, it understand the issues surrounding him at that time in his life.

I congratulate Catholics on their new leader.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 4:51 AM

CYBERSNARK

Quote:
Originally posted by ScottishBrownCoat:
Pope Benedict deserves a fair shake, he was appointed into the position he held under Pope John II and took the office only because he believed in what the Pope was doing. Also he was VOTED as Pope, he didn't take it in some millitary coup, so please give the man some time to see how he actually does as Pope before we start railing against him.

I agree.

(couldn't decide whether to say "amen" or ask for a "Hell yeah!"

)

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 5:02 AM

JASONZZZ

Pretty sure Adolfy was voted in originally too. And we sure gave him a chance and a fair shake to start off with.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 5:18 AM

BYTETHEBULLET

You people are so full of shit. This message area should be called One Sided Political Discussions(right, discussion) instead of Real World Event Discussions. I come to this site to discuss Firefly. I go to other sites for other discussions.

Don't bother flaming me because I will add this thread to the other one I do not open. I truely hope that I do not have to stop visiting this entire site.

BTW, The Pope deserves respect by default and it is obvious that some of you have no idea what that is. The President also deserves respect by default.

Well, I am done with this thread.

ByteTheBullet (-:

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 5:31 AM

JASONZZZ

Respect is good. When and if I get a chance to meet him or visit the Vatican - I'd certainly be respectful - of the place and the position. But this is satire, caricature, and discussion. I can certainly be respectful for the rank and the uniform, it doesn't mean that I can't talk about the man and have to like it.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:53 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Well. Benedict was only a Nazi Youth when he was 14. He said that he didn't like it, so I guess we'll just have to take his word for it..

When I was a kid I was forced by my parents to try carrots. I didn't like them and have avoided them since. Now I'm forever cursed in the eyes of the world as an eater of carrots.

We can dwell on what he and the rest of Greater Germany was forced to do when he was 14...or we can pick one of the 64 years he's lived since then. I for one can never forgive him for what happened in 1963. Then there the fall of '88. Oh, and who can forget a three month period during the summer of 2001.

As for those who don't like his conservative positions and feel like the church needs reform...maybe your not really catholics at all...maybe you are protestants. Lucky for you Christianity comes in a variety of flavors. You can 'not go to church on Sunday' in many different ways. Me, I'm a Methodist, yet I find my church lacking in formaility and rigid structure that I enjoy seeing in the Catholic churches...yet my pastor is the best I've seen and she'd have no voice in that system. Good thing we are allowed to choose.

My real concern is the name. Benedict the XVI? Thats alot of competition, how does one stand out when the Benedict room is already full. All I really get from his name is that he's not innocent or pious, and certainly no John Paul. Just another Benedict.

H

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:54 AM

JASONZZZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Well. Benedict was only a Nazi Youth when he was 14. He said that he didn't like it, so I guess we'll just have to take his word for it..

When I was a kid I was forced by my parents to try carrots. I didn't like them and have avoided them since. Now I'm forever cursed in the eyes of the world as an eater of carrots.

...

H

Good thing you weren't voted the Pope (well, this guy's prolly gonna pop in about 5 or 6 years. So, you might still have a chance for the running...), if you were, we would've had to examine your carrot hatred past.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:39 AM

CONNORFLYNN

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Well. Benedict was only a Nazi Youth when he was 14. He said that he didn't like it, so I guess we'll just have to take his word for it..

When I was a kid I was forced by my parents to try carrots. I didn't like them and have avoided them since. Now I'm forever cursed in the eyes of the world as an eater of carrots.

We can dwell on what he and the rest of Greater Germany was forced to do when he was 14...or we can pick one of the 64 years he's lived since then. I for one can never forgive him for what happened in 1963. Then there the fall of '88. Oh, and who can forget a three month period during the summer of 2001.

As for those who don't like his conservative positions and feel like the church needs reform...maybe your not really catholics at all...maybe you are protestants. Lucky for you Christianity comes in a variety of flavors. You can 'not go to church on Sunday' in many different ways. Me, I'm a Methodist, yet I find my church lacking in formaility and rigid structure that I enjoy seeing in the Catholic churches...yet my pastor is the best I've seen and she'd have no voice in that system. Good thing we are allowed to choose.

My real concern is the name. Benedict the XVI? Thats alot of competition, how does one stand out when the Benedict room is already full. All I really get from his name is that he's not innocent or pious, and certainly no John Paul. Just another Benedict.

H

Well written and good points.

I was raised Catholic. When you are raised to be a follower of a particular religion, it isn't until you are of sufficient age and sufficient mind to be able to sufficiently choose whether that particular religion suits your personality and personal belief.

The problem I see with Fundamentalism in any form is that it is not about the religion , but more about what is wrong with those who don't follow every edict of that religion. Fundamentalists of every religion don't believe in inclusion (Pretend to be inclusive, but aren't) but seclusion from what I've seen and participated in.

Benedict XVI isn't a Nazi. It was wrong to characterize him as such. He defected from the German army at his first opportunity. Beleive it or not, there were ALOT more Germans who fought in WWII, not because they believed in the cause, but because they were afraid not to. At any rate I digress.

I guess my point, being a non-practicing catholic, is that the Church IS running out of priests. It IS running out of young followers too. Primarily because of this constant edict that, if you don't wear blue today (this is just a exaggerated example), you shall be excommunicated.

When religion becomes a source of inclusion rather then selection exclusion, perhaps it will be more attractive to me I guess.

As for the Dalai Lama..the statements above were incorrect.

This is taken from a paper regarding Homosexuality and religions in Asia and Europe:

http://asef.on2web.com/subSite/ccd/documents/briefingpaper_001.pdf

Specifically inregards to the Dalai Lama:
Many Buddhists believe that sexual orientation and gender identity is beyond a
person's control, as are race and gender. It has been speculated that
homosexual orientation may arise from the residual karma of a previous life
spent in the opposite gender. Transgender is believed to be the punishment for
the bad karma of a past life. That is, a man who commits adultery is thought to
be reborn as a transsexual.
There are many schools and sects of Buddhism. As with Christianity, no
consensus exists within Buddhism about gay, lesbian and transgender
relationships. Buddhism is most concerned with whether an action is helpful and
based on good intentions.
Nevertheless, it is worth noting the words of the Dalai Lama on homosexuality:
“(From a) Buddhist point of view (lesbian and gay sex) is generally considered
sexual misconduct. However, such proscriptions are for members of the Buddhist
faith and from society's viewpoint, homosexual sexual relations can be of mutual
benefit, enjoyable, and harmless”. Office of Tibet spokesman Dawa Tsering said:
"His Holiness was greatly concerned by reports made available to him regarding
violence and discrimination against gay and lesbian people. His Holiness
opposes violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation. He urges
respect, tolerance, compassion, and the full recognition of human rights for all."

As for married priests..Roman Catholicism does not allow Married Priests. Priests could have BEEN married and their spouses could have passed on, or an annulment COULD have occurred, but a Roman Catholic Priest cannot be married..period.

As for Benedict..he has stated and been known for his rigid stance on Roman Catholic Doctrine. Thats fine if you are a Baby boomer. I just view the church's current stance on a number of issues to be verily outdated..similar to that of most Fundamentalist religions.

As for Lutheranism and Catholicism, there are huge differences..i.e Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation etc..etc..

I guess the big draw for me in terms of catholicism was the beauty and order of the ceremonies. It was unbelievable to particpate during Advent and Lent.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:50 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Quote:
Originally posted by ScottishBrownCoat:
Pope Benedict deserves a fair shake,
I agree.

this man was born in 1927, he was a just a kid and it was national law (and war time) that forced him into the Nazi youth...
it is ridiculous to hold that against him.

In fact choosing the name Benedict XVI is probably a reference back to Benedict XV who tried so hard to bring peace during WWI.

I believe the name means that he wishes to be an instrument of peace...and I think he should be given a chance.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:40 PM

SCOTTISHBROWNCOAT

You said;
"As for married priests..Roman Catholicism does not allow Married Priests. Priests could have BEEN married and their spouses could have passed on, or an annulment COULD have occurred, but a Roman Catholic Priest cannot be married..period."

In Regards to this statement, I would ask that you re-read exactly what I said;

"Married Priests: There are Married priests, they are in the Eastern Rite of the Catholic church, any Catholic man interested in becoming a priest after getting married can change to one of these rites at any time and still remain within the Holy See, it is as simple as that. Just ask your Bishop or Priest if you don't believe me.
The Latin Rite only has a few married priests, but they are there. That is simply the way of the Latin Rite, it is not for everyone, but alas, it is there."

Again, these are the simple facts, There are priests in the Catholic Church that are married, In the Eastern Rites of the Church(not orthodox mind you but catholic under the Holy See),the priests are allowed to marry.
The Roman Catholic Church is comprised of about 27 distinct rites, the Latin Rite(95% of all Catholic
churches in America) comprise the largest and most
powerful of rites. Simple research or a phone call to a Catholic Priest will confirm exactly what I am saying, just ask him about the Eastern Rite of the Roman Catholic Church and he will tell you ALL about it.
Also, you must be married before entering seminary of the Eastern Rite seminaries, you cannot Marry after you take the priestly ordination, it must have been pre-existant, also eastern Rite Bishops Cannot be married.

Thanks

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 3:41 PM

JASONZZZ

My point exactly!

who knows whether he is a Nazi now or not. Only time will tell - and better do it quick too - the guy prolly only has maybe 5 or 6 years more before he kicks the bucket. In any case, the point is that he was a Nazi when he was a young man, he had the option of not doing it. I am not holding it against him, but he isn't applying to be the local union clerk either. The man's got the most Supreme religious leader job for the western world - sorry, record's got to be pretty spotless for that. Anything less than that is an indication of something less than desirable in character. For God's sake, there were 115 other cardinals and they couldn't have picked someone who had a better record, who can do better. Who did he pay off (er, don't even want to think about what with) to get *this* job.

Hah, read about something else that's completely dumb-ass'tic:

Who would leave a 1742 Sanctus Seraphin violin and Francois Tourte bow worth $850k in a car to go shopping at the Mall? She would:

abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/042005_nw_missing_violin.html

Aruga Aruga! maybe talented, but just another dumbass. She left the window down when she went shopping in the Mall!!!

Should have at *least* put a lock on it:
img249.echo.cx/img249/9099/violin6en.jpg

Closeup of 1742 Sanctus Seraphin

www.palosverdes.com/tlcmusic/violin.htm

Nicola Benedetti.... hmmmm...

Anne Sophie Mutter

aaaah... The Ahn Trio

the Eroica Trio

And of course, Bond

Oh, and before I forget today:

Happy B-Day Adolfy:
Never ceases to amaze me the kind of crap that people are still willing to foist onto themselves.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:34 PM

MONTANAGIRL

Isn't the basic tenet of Christianity forgiveness? If a Christian-persecuting Pharisee called Saul could become Paul, a devout beliver and essentially the founder of Christianity as we know it, why can't Benedict be forgiven for something that happened when he was a kid, that he didn't have much choice about, and that happened over fifty years ago?

I'm not Catholic, and I'm not sure how he's going to fare as the Pope, but I'm not going to say that he's unfit for the office based on his participation as a Hitler youth. I might question the choice of a hard-line conservative in the modern world climate, but I'm willing to wait and see how he actually performs.

Forgiveness and redemption can be powerful things.

If you can be an idiot, I can be an idiot. - D'Argo

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:00 AM

PIRATEJENNY

well I kind of feel for you,although I have to admit I'm not religious at all, I consider myself a spirtual person and I do believe in the soul and life after death and energy but as for a supreme being..I don't know and really don't care one way or the other I believe if there is one God then there could be many gods just as there is more then one person..the god in the judeo Christian bible comes off as a sociopathic maniac, and I personally don't understand why anyone would want to worship such a being but thats just me!!

I've always had some bias against the Catholic church...to me they have never really practiced the doctrine of christianty...they've always been secretive, and have tried to keep people in the dark, and stupid, they started the inquistion and were responsible for millions of death in the name of christianty

Popes like this new one, have denounced homosexuality but the Catholic church is rampant with homosexual priest and also child molesters and always have been... so they are also hypocritcal

I've always wondered why anyone would want to take advice from a person who doesn't or claims not to have sex....

sex is a natural part of being a human being its also one of the strongest biological forces that drives us as human being and I don't think its healthy to try an surpress those urges.. and I do believe surpessing those natural urges is bound to cause mental problems!!

or if they do give into their natural human urges , they are consumed by guilt...guilt for doing something that is natural..its sick..its totally sick!! and unhealthy

popes aren't supreme beings..they are humans

I look at the Catholic church at least the higher archy as more of a secret society a power structure that feeds of the ingorance of people

but good luck to you!!

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:23 AM

PIRATEJENNY

Quote:
.Again, these are the simple facts, There are p riests in the Catholic Church that are married, In the Eastern Rites of the Church(not orthodox mind you but catholic under the Holy See),the priests are allowed to marry.
The Roman Catholic Church is comprised of about 27 distinct rites, the Latin Rite(95% of all Catholic
churches in America) comprise the largest and most...

actually in the beginning of Catholicism, Priest did marry, I don't remember the dates when they made a rule that priest couldn't marry but I know the reason why!!!

the priesthood started to accumulate great wealth, and the families of the priest after their deaths begin to stake claims on some of it, this started to become a major problem for the church

so they banned priest from marrying, alot of people think it has to do with spirtuality or trying to mimic Jesus Christ..but really it has nothing to do with that its for purely selfish and greedy reasons why the church banned priest from marrying

also Jesus himself was a Jew not a Christian and its highly unlikely that he would have been unmarried by the time he was 30, If I had to bet on the truth..I would say that he was indeed married and probably had some children to boot!!

and if you look at where the Catholic church started in (Rome)..they've always had a homosexual culture there..actually a homosexual lifestyle was considered to be highly spirtual and desireable by the Romans

I personally belive there is something fundamentally wrong with the Catholic church, not because of the sexual nature of the majority of priest in the church which is homosexual

but because they lie...they don't practice what they preach, because they are secretive, because they foster an atomsphere of fear and loathing

the claim to be somehow better then us average people they claim to he holy, and spirtual..but they aren't they are just men with faults like the rest us....they supress themselves in the name of Jesus Christ.and a sociopathic God

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:09 AM

PIRATEJENNY

Quote:
Well. Benedict was only a Nazi Youth when he was 14. He said that he didn't like it, so I guess we'll just have to take his word for it.. Lord, just read yet another article where Ratzinger already has a media nickname... No, not Papa Ratzi, it's Papa-Nazi. Hang-on, how many more Pope do we have to go thru before the Anti-Christ? oh wait, or are we there already?

LOL!!!

I think thats kind of creepy that a former Nazi youth thats now the POPE was confirmed on Hitlers birthday.

he also looks creepy too!!

I don't know if he liked being a Nazi or not, the fact that he was wether he wanted to or not just doesn't sit well.

He doesn't seem very christian..but then very few Popes followed the teachings of jesus Christ..so nothing new there!!!

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 3:20 AM

GAVIDA

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
In any case, the point is that he was a Nazi when he was a young man, he had the option of not doing it.

Ah well, it is always nice to see people from abroad having so much knowledge about the Hitlerjugend and who was a Nazi during World War II.

First: Adolf Hitler ordered that every youth has to serve in the Hitlerjugend before Ratzinger was in the HJ. Schools had to register their pupils with the HJ. It was not that the youngsters had to go to some "HJ-recruiting office" and fill out a form to become a member. It was NOT a voluntary club to join.
The pupil would get a benefit from attending meetings of the HJ, in that the money that had to be payed for school would be payed by the Nazi-Party.
Ratzinger didn't attend the meetings even after being told by his teacher to go there "at least once to get the papers for the benefit".

But of course he had the choice to become a member of the HJ and he was a bad Nazi! Thank you for the insights into german history, mate.

Second: Ratzinger was drafted from his studies to become a priest to become a Flak-Helper.
Being 16 you probably want to live and not to be shot for not following the draft.

Of course he had the choice, but being the evil Nazi he probably joined all eager to kill some allied pilots.

Third: He was not a Nazi, since he was not a member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP).
He was a young man living in a country that was in a war and was lead by a madman.

But of course every german was a Nazi, they should have all been maimed and killed!

Thank you for the insight again.

Fourth: Ratzinger deserted from his unit before the war ended. Deserters were shot on spot by the SS if captured or, to save ammo, just hanged on lampposts.

But he wouldn't have to fear that, being the Nazi he was, right?

It always makes me want to puke when I read that kind of posts.

But I am a german, so what does it matter, I am probably a Nazi, since my grandfather was in the german army (Wehrmacht), because he was drafted away from his family. Of course he could have dodged the draft, sentencing himself and his family to death. Then I would not be hear, so I have to be a Nazi, because my Grandfather must have been one, right?

Of course, every american soldier who fought in the Vietnam War is a babykiller and rapist, because it happpend.
And all american soldiers in the gulf region are war criminals because they torture prisoners!

I am not catholic, it isn't of any interest to me, who is Pope.
But the condemnation of every (now) old german man, who lived during World War II and "dared" to survive makes me sick.

If people would at least know what they talk about... but it is easier to pick up something from the yellow press than to do some reading and get the facts straight first.

Definetly pissed by some people's ignorant rants,
Gavida

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 4:27 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

This whole Nazi thing is propaganda, and you can bet that the Left-wing media will jump on this. They will do their best to paint the new Pope as a Nazi. It’s retarded. A 14 year old German boy in Nazi Germany has about as much control over where he ends up as a 14 year old Jewish Boy in Nazi Germany. Ratzinger was no more responsible for being favored by the Germans then Jews were responsible for ending up in the death camps, to claim otherwise is to fail to recognize what totalitarianism is.

On the other hand, Ratzinger knows what totalitarianism is. I’m encouraged by Ratzinger’s Nazi experience. He was there. He saw first hand what brutal governments can do. That is an experience that can serve him well as Pope.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 5:38 AM

JASONZZZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:

Some definitely unedited emotional ranting here...
snipped...

But of course every german was a Nazi, they should have all been maimed and killed!

Definetly pissed by some people's ignorant rants,
Gavida

Look "Mate", of course, not every single German is a Nazi, it's not like you a Mormon and you are cursed for life or something. Although every Nazi *should* be maimed or killed on principle, but that's pretty much taken care of at least on the insides, time will tell - no one lives forever.

But on your suggestion that I think every single German is unfit for life ? No, I'm just saying that a former Nazi youth shouldn't be a Pope, I would careless if a former Nazi youth is a shoe salesmen or the corner drugstore owner. Just not the Pope.

And get a grip of yourselves, I think you are about to bust a coronary or something... Better take 2 aspirins and have a mini-break.

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 5:59 AM

XENOCIDE

Quote:
Third: He was not a Nazi, since he was not a member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP).
He was a young man living in a country that was in a war and was lead by a madman.

...and we americans ought to find some sympathy for that situation. Jason, unless you have dodged the draft or failed to register with selective services, I think it mught be wise to make fewer high handed moral judgements. I have some hope for this pope inspite of my reservations about his more recent past (I don't think the actions or inactions of a child should be held against an adult man.) He chose the name of a reformer, a peacemaker, a liberal.

-Eli

If voting mattered, they'd make it illegal.

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 6:08 AM

GAVIDA

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

But on your suggestion that I think every single German is unfit for life ? No, I'm just saying that a former Nazi youth shouldn't be a Pope, I would careless if a former Nazi youth is a shoe salesmen or the corner drugstore owner. Just not the Pope.

I would agree, if it was his choice to become a member of the Hitlerjugend.

But of course he should be held responsible for being registered with the Hitlerjugend by the school authorities as ordered by Hitler.
And of course it is a woman's fault when she gets raped, right?

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
And get a grip of yourselves, I think you are about to bust a coronary or something... Better take 2 aspirins and have a mini-break.

No need to worry about my health, last health check was ok.
But no worries, I don't intend to put any more time or energy into this, since further discussing with someone who's... ah heck... just let me stay nice.....

I do not see further need for discussion on this matter, since you already know everything about Germany during World War II and I do not, even with recent german history being rubbed in since 4th grade in school.

Channel closed,
Gavida

Edit: Snipped out a sarcastic line that might have offend some people if gotten wrong

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 11:48 AM

JASONZZZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:

I do not see further need for discussion on this matter, since you already know everything about Germany during World War II and I do not, even with recent german history being rubbed in since 4th grade in school.

Channel closed,
Gavida

Edit: Snipped out a sarcastic line that might have offend some people if gotten wrong

Yeah, well... I don't know what's worst, the fact that you (and the rest of modern Germany) have to be pretty much mass emasculated because of a bunch of dumb fools' completely crazed and irrational actions some 70+ years past, or that you have to be constantly reminded, humiliated, and punished for something you have no personal involvement in - other than a few chromosomes here and there. Hehe, we just keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again anyways. So, you and your fellow countrymen are getting all beaten out of shape - all for nothing. Same crap, different language, different locations.

And no, I certainly don't know every single thing about Germany, other than beer, Oktober Fest, Sauerbrauten, and lederhosen - ok, and the idiots who know nothing about the Reich from a hole in the ground pretending to be Nazi's. But I'm pretty certain that a former Nazi Youth shouldn't have been voted in as the Pope. Now I'm reminded of something about the New World Order, blah blah blah.

Now, the French, that's another matter altogether.

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 11:57 AM

JASONZZZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

But on your suggestion that I think every single German is unfit for life ? No, I'm just saying that a former Nazi youth shouldn't be a Pope, I would careless if a former Nazi youth is a shoe salesmen or the corner drugstore owner. Just not the Pope.

I would agree, if it was his choice to become a member of the Hitlerjugend.

and you know this because you were standing there right next to him reading his mind? I know as much as you do about this - pretty much zilch on top of what his self-proclaimed and prolly self-revised history. You took it in one direction, and I took it in another in pure and complete speculation. No proof or disprove can ever be done - case closed. Move along, nothing to see here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:

But of course he should be held responsible for being registered with the Hitlerjugend by the school authorities as ordered by Hitler.
And of course it is a woman's fault when she gets raped, right?

Well, maybe you *do* know more about this then I do, since I have never raped or been raped. But statistics show that most rape victims are overpowered and immobilized first. So, I would say "no" in most instances... Some of the rest might just be whores who suffered from post self-regret. But then again, most real rapes don't get reported, so the stats can go either way. But... maybe I am more than sure you would like to tell me something about it.

Then again, we wouldn't be having this very same discussion if the guy was just trying to get a job as a volvo salesman...

Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
And get a grip of yourselves, I think you are about to bust a coronary or something... Better take 2 aspirins and have a mini-break.

No need to worry about my health, last health check was ok.
But no worries, I don't intend to put any more time or energy into this, since further discussing with someone who's... ah heck... just let me stay nice.....

I do not see further need for discussion on this matter, since you already know everything about Germany during World War II and I do not, even with recent german history being rubbed in since 4th grade in school.

Channel closed,
Gavida

Edit: Snipped out a sarcastic line that might have offend some people if gotten wrong

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 12:00 PM

JASONZZZ

Quote:
Originally posted by xenocide:
Quote:
Third: He was not a Nazi, since he was not a member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP).
He was a young man living in a country that was in a war and was lead by a madman.

...and we americans ought to find some sympathy for that situation. Jason, unless you have dodged the draft or failed to register with selective services, I think it mught be wise to make fewer high handed moral judgements. I have some hope for this pope inspite of my reservations about his more recent past (I don't think the actions or inactions of a child should be held against an adult man.) He chose the name of a reformer, a peacemaker, a liberal.

-Eli

If voting mattered, they'd make it illegal.

It's kind of hard not to hit a few good character points when the chosen name has 15 other characters to build on.

And while we are on high moral ground here. Last time I checked, the guy wasn't interviewing to be Jasonzzz or anyother schmo from around the corner. The job is the Pope. Sorry, he's got to have been better than your average Clintonite.

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:20 PM

GAVIDA

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:
I would agree, if it was his choice to become a member of the Hitlerjugend.

and you know this because you were standing there right next to him reading his mind? I know as much as you do about this - pretty much zilch on top of what his self-proclaimed and prolly self-revised history. You took it in one direction, and I took it in another in pure and complete speculation. No proof or disprove can ever be done - case closed. Move along, nothing to see here.

Ok, wanted to bite my tongue and really really didn't want to give it another try, but I was weak....

The problem with your statement is, that you only quotet the first line, out of context and ignoring the
"But of course he should be held responsible for being registered with the Hitlerjugend by the school authorities as ordered by Hitler."

Going somewhere and registering for membership = active doing, free and voluntary decision

Good thing to do if it is the Red Cross or another humanitarian organization

Bad thing if it is an organization that is part of a fascist and massmurdering regime

Having some authority registering you for membership without asking you if you even consider it an option = passive thing, forced upon you by the authority, no choice to say "no"

I could fill in an example for "Good" and "Bad" here as well, but that would be from the view of the authorities/state and I do not want to confuse you with it.

What I am trying to say is:

If he would have joined the Hitlerjugend voluntarily and willingly I would agree with you with all my heart.

Being forced into the HJ by the state due to the law at that time surely can not be blamed on him?

Of course a 14 year old boy would have had the strength and power to beat up every Nazi that either tried to enforce the membership on him or imprison him for not obeying, I guess?
(Rethorical question!)

Just imagine GWB passing a law that would put you within an organization no matter if you want it or not.
Then there is a change in the system and the organization would be deemed "evil" or "bad" and you would be condemned for being a member, even if you had no choice.
You would just say "Ok, I was a member of that organization, so blame me for it?"
Hard to believe actually.

This really is my last try to bring my point across, I tried it the best way I can as a non-native english speaker. Maybe I just can't make it clear what I mean.

Oh, btw: German Beer is overrated.... try some imported Czech Beer if you can get your hands on it.

Bye,
Gavida

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:36 PM

JASONZZZ

I would agree with you a common 14 year boy might not have the power or will or knowledge to resist, to vote with his feet and give up his life evading/fighting for something bigger. And that would be ok/good enough for your normal everyday ice-cream scooper.

this guy is the Pope! Sorry, not knowing enough when you are 14 is not a good enough example to set for someone who likely will be canonized as a Saint some day later. There has to be demonstrated sainthood and holiness - *ABOVE THE ORDINARY* - to be a saint in my book. What he did what exactly the kind of thing that puts him at common/normal at the very best. And there were quite a few normal people who did the extraordinary in those days - those folks might have gotten a pat on the back at the very best. And prolly definitely not sainthood.

See the difference?

And GWB *and* the Congress make up and passes plenty of laws that lots of people don't agree with. I pay my taxes any ways. *BUT* I'm not running to be the Pope!

Beer, well German beer is pretty good compared to the crap that's foisted on the rest of the world (except for TsingTao - but of course, that's really Holland beer)... Not sure about Czech yet, but definitely Bavarian and Austrian

Hang on... Got to email the man and let him know what's going on ...

benedictxvi@vatican.va

Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:
I would agree, if it was his choice to become a member of the Hitlerjugend.

and you know this because you were standing there right next to him reading his mind? I know as much as you do about this - pretty much zilch on top of what his self-proclaimed and prolly self-revised history. You took it in one direction, and I took it in another in pure and complete speculation. No proof or disprove can ever be done - case closed. Move along, nothing to see here.

Ok, wanted to bite my tongue and really really didn't want to give it another try, but I was weak....

The problem with your statement is, that you only quotet the first line, out of context and ignoring the
"But of course he should be held responsible for being registered with the Hitlerjugend by the school authorities as ordered by Hitler."

Going somewhere and registering for membership = active doing, free and voluntary decision

Good thing to do if it is the Red Cross or another humanitarian organization

Bad thing if it is an organization that is part of a fascist and massmurdering regime

Having some authority registering you for membership without asking you if you even consider it an option = passive thing, forced upon you by the authority, no choice to say "no"

I could fill in an example for "Good" and "Bad" here as well, but that would be from the view of the authorities/state and I do not want to confuse you with it.

What I am trying to say is:

If he would have joined the Hitlerjugend voluntarily and willingly I would agree with you with all my heart.

Being forced into the HJ by the state due to the law at that time surely can not be blamed on him?

Of course a 14 year old boy would have had the strength and power to beat up every Nazi that either tried to enforce the membership on him or imprison him for not obeying, I guess?
(Rethorical question!)

Just imagine GWB passing a law that would put you within an organization no matter if you want it or not.
Then there is a change in the system and the organization would be deemed "evil" or "bad" and you would be condemned for being a member, even if you had no choice.
You would just say "Ok, I was a member of that organization, so blame me for it?"
Hard to believe actually.

This really is my last try to bring my point across, I tried it the best way I can as a non-native english speaker. Maybe I just can't make it clear what I mean.

Oh, btw: German Beer is overrated.... try some imported Czech Beer if you can get your hands on it.

Bye,
Gavida

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Thursday, April 21, 2005 10:03 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Am I the only one who was hoping the new name would be Pope Urban IX?

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Friday, April 22, 2005 3:13 AM

CONNORFLYNN

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Am I the only one who was hoping the new name would be Pope Urban IX?

I was listening to the radio this morning and thought hmm.. how about "Pope Diddy I"

PS: How did a discussion about the Pope turn into a who is, who isn't a Nazi discussion?

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Friday, April 22, 2005 3:36 AM

CYBERSNARK

Guy on Usenet suggested Pope Peter Gabriel (named for the Apostle and the Archangel).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Friday, April 22, 2005 4:17 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

How about Pope Serenity the 1st.

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Friday, April 22, 2005 4:48 AM

JASONZZZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Connorflynn:

PS: How did a discussion about the Pope turn into a who is, who isn't a Nazi discussion?

And, I want to talk some more about those really cool chick violinists...

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email his holiness at benedictxvi@vatican.va

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Friday, April 22, 2005 9:17 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

Whatever the leanings (political or otherwise) of the current Pope he must be U.S. aproved otherwise you blokes would be invading the Vatican about now for a spot of regime change.
And acording to Nostradamus (and Brother Malachy)there will be only one more Pope after this one. He will be the anti-Christ and bring about Armageddon... Cardinal Wolfowitz perhaps?

Or Cardinal Swarzenegger.

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Friday, April 22, 2005 9:48 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I vote for Pope Serenity! Now, we just have to infiltrate the conclave with FF-loving Cardinals! Remember, it requires many years of celibacy to become a Cardinal -if you're honest- which of course we all are!

How many volunteers????

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Friday, April 22, 2005 12:00 PM

OLDENGLANDDRY

Celibacy!!! No wonder the Pope's so bloody miserable looking.
Still, I'll give it a go as long as i can keep my Playboy subscription.

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Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:28 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Pope Diddy or Pope Peter Gabriel. Heh heh

.

I might even rethink the whole "yuck" factor of transubstantiation if the next Pope was named Serenity (probably wouldn't be enough for a conversion, though). If he was a browncoat, however, he would choose the name Serenity IV (since we all know there will be a trilogy

).

Is this the part where someone starts adding up all the extra time in Purgatory we're accruing?

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Sunday, April 24, 2005 5:14 PM

MONTANAGIRL

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Is this the part where someone starts adding up all the extra time in Purgatory we're accruing?

That reminds me of a line in Return to Me. The one old guy says, "You're going to be spending a lot of time in Purgatory, you are." To which the other old guy replies, "Yeah? Well at least I'll be with friends."

If you can be an idiot, I can be an idiot. - D'Argo

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Sunday, April 24, 2005 10:46 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Quote:
Originally posted by montanagirl:
That reminds me of a line in Return to Me. The one old guy says, "You're going to be spending a lot of time in Purgatory, you are." To which the other old guy replies, "Yeah? Well at least I'll be with friends."

Nice! Sounds like my kind of people

.

---------------------
Next up: Early "Nutcrusher" Jubal and the Firebuggers

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Monday, April 25, 2005 5:30 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,
I'd like to weigh in on the whole Nazi angle. Yes, it's tempting to point and laugh at the Pope, and say, "He was a Nazi!" And hardee har har, isn't that funny?

Unfortunately, the truth of the matter that there was an entire Population of Germany who did not start a resistance movement and try to kill Hitler. Why? Some didn't know. Some didn't care. Some knew and cared but wanted to live. We are all familiar with what happened to Rommel, yes? Going against Hitler from inside his own country, even if you were a famed General, was rather deadly.

We could also lay blame on every country in the world who delayed or failed to fight against Germany in WWII, yes? The United States saw what was happening and sat passively by until we were attacked. So did the Russians. So did a lot of countries.

And shall we hate every Italian and French citizen who did not rise up in opposition to the occupying Germans? Every human being who did not rise up as part of the resistance movement is as guilty of passively going along with Germany as a Hitler youth is. Most of the world, really.

There have been several generations on this Earth, of people who should have stood up and opposed evil... but did nothing in order to survive. Even in my own lifetime, this has been true.

But... let's say the new Pope was indeed a willing Nazi. Let's say he went around actively killing, with a grin on his blood soaked face. Let's pretend all of that is true...

He'd be as worthy to be Pope as anyone. Murderers made it into the highest ranks of Christianity when Jesus was alive. At least one of the Apostles was a member of an evil regime. So, being an ex-Hitler Youth or even a Nazi ought to have no standing whatsoever on whether a man ought to be Pope or not... at least if you're a Christian.

And if you're not a Christian, what do you care?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:24 AM

JASONZZZ

You are right, he is really Emperor Palpatine.

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Saturday, April 30, 2005 7:05 PM

PIRATEJENNY

Quote:
He'd be as worthy to be Pope as anyone. Murderers made it into the highest ranks of Christianity when Jesus was alive. At least one of the Apostles was a member of an evil regime. So, being an ex-Hitler Youth or even a Nazi ought to have no standing whatsoever on whether a man ought to be Pope or not... at least if you're a Christian.

but if you are truly a Christian doesn't that go against everything that Jesus Christ stood for, where is the morality in being a nazi...???
this is like having your cake and eating it too, This man is claiming to have moral superiorty over people and he is in a leadership position, by your definition if christanity is evil then yes this man if he was in fact a willing nazi should be the pope.

I personally don't have a problem with this man being the pope wether he was... is... a nazi or not..because the Catholic church has always been full of despots and sickos..so this really isn't nothing new..it just brings forth the hypocrisy of their moral superiorty, and how totally phony it all is!!!

Quote:
And if you're not a Christian, what do you care?

the only thing I care about is the fact that these people who claim to be on some spirtual & moral highground are in fact just the opposite of what they claim to be, and that they are allowed to walk around without being called on thir shi*t!!

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Sunday, May 1, 2005 4:07 AM

SCOTTISHBROWNCOAT

Quote:
but if you are truly a Christian doesn't that go against everything that Jesus Christ stood for, where is the morality in being a nazi...???

I think the point is that even if he was, (which it is known that he wasn't, just involuntarily placed in Hitler youth), then he definately is not now, especially considering his current actions and comments about respect for Jews, and the Unity of the Orthodox and Catholic Churches. And since he is not a Nazi then Nazi Morality is a non-issue. However, even if he was and repented then the Christian ethic of Forgiveness must be in place. If you hold true to the teachings of Christ. Even Paul of Tarsus had a hateful beginning according to Christian scriptures, but look at what he became.

Quote:
this is like having your cake and eating it too, This man is claiming to have moral superiorty over people and he is in a leadership position,

This is an assumption. The fact is that Pope Benedict has not made any claim to moral superiority. In fact he had prayed that he would not be chosen as pope, he wanted to retire and spend the rest of his life in study.

Quote:
by your definition if christanity is evil then yes this man if he was in fact a willing nazi should be the pope.

??? What do you mean by this statement??? I did not read anyone define christianity in those terms you wrote, could you please elaborate on what you mean?

Quote:
I personally don't have a problem with this man being the pope wether he was... is... a nazi or not..because the Catholic church has always been full of despots and sickos..

That statement is somewhat tacky, but I will do my best to state the obvious... The Roman Catholic Church, like any entity on this planet Earth run by Humans is bound to be subject to corruption on small or large scales, this is just the nature of us. The Roman Catholic church has a darkened history, the same that any European institution during the Middle Ages had.
However, unlike many Kingdoms and other Christian denominations, the Roman Catholic Church has admitted it's part and apologized, but for some people that is not good enough.
You cannot Judge the value of an Entire Faith system on what happened Hundreds of Years ago, or on what a few wackos who claim the faith do.

Quote:

so this really isn't nothing new..it just brings forth the hypocrisy of their moral superiorty, and how totally phony it all is!!!

What? would that be, Religion in general, because I know of no religion or Philosophy, or Secular teaching, or any world view that hasn't suffered from it's share of corruption. Even Atheists have their extremeists, so please, do us a favor and take a look at the big picture before making statements such as these.

Quote:
the only thing I care about is the fact that these people who claim to be on some spirtual & moral highground are in fact just the opposite of what they claim to be, and that they are allowed to walk around without being called on thir shi*t!!

Ah good, It is always nice to see sh*t thrown into the debate for good measure, it really raises the standard...any way... Who is claiming the Morah Highground that is just the opposite? I know of many Bishops or Priests that have been "Called on thir shi*t", but how in the world is this relative at all to the effectiveness of Pope Benedict the 16th?
Are you claiming that you know with absolute certainity that he is not Moral? If you are, please elaborate on how you know this infomation for fact firsthand?
Sure, some peoples actions are not in harmony with their words, but unless their actions directly contradict their words, no one knows for sure.

The bottom line is that this discussion on the Pope has been a wonderful outlet for those folks to put up funny little pictures depicting Benedict as a Nazi or that stupid little character from star wars, or given people the floor to cuss or make generalizations. That is all fine and Dandy, but the fact remains;

The body of Benedict's work has not been completed. No one can look into the future and predict how it will turn out. So far in this station, Benedict has made many progressive statements and actions leading toward Peace between Muslims, Jews, Orthodox Christians, and Protestants.
So far, his actions have not reflected anything but a man trying to do the best he can. So I can't say that he is a charlatan, because I don't know this for a fact at all.
And as far as all this Nazi crap goes, a lot of Gentiles like to throw that term around without truly thinking of the weight that label bears with some people.
I am Jewish and to off-handedly call someone a Nazi as a means of discrediting them is dim witted. I have met my share of Neo-Nazi's and Fascists in my life, Pope Benedict's actions show so far that he is neither.

Give me a break!

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Sunday, May 1, 2005 7:05 AM

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

While I'm not Catholic, I am currently attending a Catholic High School and am deeply involved at my own Presbyterian church. At my school i am about 1 of 20 students (out of 400) who is liberal or on the liberal side. When the white smoke came out and the bells rang, our entire school took a pause from the schedule so that we could watch history in the making. When it was revealed that Ratzinger was now Pope Benedict XVI, I nearly slammed my head into my desk. I thought I would be one of the only ones to do this, or have the feeling of doing this, except for one of my teachers Sister Mary Ann who is a democrat, but while walking to prayer, many of the teachers where grouped together and talking about it... most of them were upset by the decision, and one even worried that Ratzinger would call Vatican III and send us all back into the dark ages.

They say he's supposed to be a kind of "inbetween" Pope. Kind of a way of holding things off until they can make a better decision...but the last Pope they said this about, called Vatican II and changed the entire world...

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
MAL: This is my scrap of nowhere. You go on and find your own.
SAFFRON: You can't just leave me here, on this
lifeless piece of crap moon...
MAL: Sure I can.
SAFFRON: I'll die.
MAL: Well, as a courtesy, you might start
getting busy on that, cause all this chatter ain't doin' me any kindness.

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Sunday, May 1, 2005 7:13 AM

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
You are right, he is really Emperor Palpatine.

Like Fireflyfans.net?
Haken needs a new development system. Donate.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283

]

People at my school actually thought he was more of an
Uncle Fester looking guy. =]

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
MAL: This is my scrap of nowhere. You go on and find your own.
SAFFRON: You can't just leave me here, on this
lifeless piece of crap moon...
MAL: Sure I can.
SAFFRON: I'll die.
MAL: Well, as a courtesy, you might start
getting busy on that, cause all this chatter ain't doin' me any kindness.

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