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Originally posted by Faramond:
*The Central Planets are seen as "enlightened", but this faux enlightenment is depicted as coming at too great a cost, if not downright evil. Yet the Outer Planets seem to be depicted as equally bad, just on a local level. Could this infer [or is it imply? I forget] our trouble reconciling problems both at home and abroad in these "interesting times"--are there good guys anywhere?--, or is this the human condition where everything seems a vast wasteland of iniquity, depravity and hopelessness? How does this relate to the American/Anti-American sentiment? [or UK or Canadian, etc. etc.]

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
* Which female aboard Serenity has the greatest rack?

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Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
Traditionally, humans have valued athleticism and form. Lithe and agile people, women included, were more able to survive and compete. I think men (and women) prefer the smaller, more average sized breast. B, I think is popular.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
B. 'gattaca et al'

Yeah, this is an obvious message of the show, utopia is evil, because to achieve it you have to subvert human will. It's one of the blatantly anti-socialist messages which abound here. And yeah, this is blatantly anti-socialist, not just a natural extension of the show's libertarian bent.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:


Though Clinton started this, he has really been outclassed by Bush

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Originally posted by dreamtrove

Todays corporatists are not very different if at all from Mussolini. They seek the merger of corporation and state to give them not only govt. control over industry, but also a 'safe space' for their command structures

...Other societies have used this model before, besides Mussolini's Italy, including Nazi Germany and present day Communist China, which has govt. friendly corporations that get enormous contracts and laws passed which set things overwhelming in their favor.

...Though Clinton started this, he has really been outclassed by Bush, who knows know shame. Sadly, now the United States has to be added to the list of societies that follow this model.






"....also, I can kill you with my brain."

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:


Though Clinton started this, he has really been outclassed by Bush

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So...the Alliance will have a statue of Bush AND Mao at their HQ?

Chrisisall

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
(Cont. from another rather noisy thread)
*Other Sci-Fi movies/etc. that deal with the same types of issues [ie: Gattaca, trying to create the "perfect world", through genetics instead of pharmaceuticals]and any parallels we might draw...and lo and behold, our own 'verse trying the same with both.

* Which female aboard Serenity has the greatest rack?
[I put in number four to see if anyone can draw present day sociopolitical parallels with boobs.]
-As posted by Faramond

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This isn't why I call Cheney et al neo-socialists, but it's one of the signs that they haven't changed their stripes since they were calling themselves 'Trotsky Socialists.' Back in those days Max told Dick and Bill about this great plan of corporatism and how it fit into the grand scheme.

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Finally, corporations aren't good, and they're nto evil, they're just one way for people to organize. If those people are evil, the result will be bad. Fortunately, most people are good, and corporations tend to lend themselves in a better overall direction than govts.

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Anyway, this last link is a forum topic: a sharing of personal triggers from very ill people.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Yes, we sure do. I actually found the correct dx and rx on that website although we had gone to top-notch docs in our area. One thing I have to say about the internet- parents talking to parents have REALLY pushed doctors from the bottom up. "You can't stop the signal" is real, altho I tend to look at is as collective wisdom of the internet.

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Originally posted by SignyM:


I was initially attracted to FF because the characters seemed like real people- maybe with more drive and ethics that usual, but basically normal people - surviving in a tough tough world. But with STM he tossed that out the window in favor of Buffy In Space. So, are we supposed to wait for a renegade from MK ULTRA to save us? How dis-empowering and unrealistic is that? You can't get a movement off the ground without a paradigm shift, and that has to engage a significant portion of the population, not just the best pilot, geek, tactician, and warrior in the solar system.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
We've all been omitting someone. I feel foolish now.

Saffron is the hands down, err.. hands on... um, the winner.

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The scifi I grew up with had an essential optimism. Space travel and technology were going to lead to new landscapes, personal and otherwise. (If you can find it read short story "The Widget, the Wadget, and Boff". I think you'll like it.) Over time scifi became darker- apocalyptic, with no sense of progress, hopeless, and cynical. Joss continues that apocalyptic view. I find it troubling, because there is no hope in our world view anymore, just anxiety and fear. People who do not hope will not change things.

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The other aspect of Joss' arc that I find troubling is his reliance on individual heroes. That is the happy ending in every myth, movie, and fairy tale since whenever: Hercules or our Fairy Godmother will come to save us. I was initially attracted to FF because the characters seemed like real people- maybe with more drive and ethics that usual, but basically normal people - surviving in a tough tough world. But with STM he tossed that out the window in favor of Buffy In Space. So, are we supposed to wait for a renegade from MK ULTRA to save us? How dis-empowering and unrealistic is that? You can't get a movement off the ground without a paradigm shift, and that has to engage a significant portion of the population, not just the best pilot, geek, tactician, and warrior in the solar system.

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Finally- whatever victory we average people have- if we are to have any- will be economic not military. I know explosions are necessary for the movie-going public (a sign of how stupid we are) but a military win isn't going to mean much if the same old same old continues- people who control the money have used yet another war to make yet more money. We have to fundamentally stop accepting monsters in our midst and then expecting to be rescued by mythical heroes, and we have to devise a sysem that stops creating and rewarding these monsters.

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Max????

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Bureaucracies are a good example of organizational sentience, and corporations are another, and they move in ways that are beyond the sum of their individuals. Let me give you an example: Let's say DoGood Inc. has a well-intentioned Board of Directors. They pay better than avergae wages, shell out for pollution control, conduct "blue-sky" research, and are the first to advance into opening markets (like hybrid cars). Where do you think they'll be in five years? Most likely they will be swallowed up by Ruthless Inc. Even well-intentioned corporations have to respond to pressures brought to bear by other corporations that flog their fully-depreciated equipment (and technologies) an order of magnitude past its lifetime (piling up sheer profit), and similarly flog the environment, employees, and consumers and using its profits to bribe governments and coercively expand.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Faramond

I disagree with you on the human nature and doing the right thing, unless this is what you mean. Necons are the result of the human desire to do good gone out of control. They see other people who are not in line with them as evil or ignorant, and thus to marginalized completely, and that any means are justified if it brings them closer to their ends, which are a series of supernational entities arranged into a one world state. You can never discount these people's belief in a utopian ideal and their almost religious belief in how one gets to that goal.







"....also, I can kill you with my brain."

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Capitalism seeks to mimic nature, but it isn't nature, and so it has to evolve over time. But that doesn't mean we should go back to govt. institutions, aka Intelligent Design.

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Originally posted by Faramond:
While "Saffron" is indeed pretty, bigger don't mean better.

And I'm seriously regretting my "boob" thread: can we all agree on a moratorium on mammary-related posts from now on?



"....also, I can kill you with my brain."

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Originally posted by Faramond:
I think it's about personal responsibility, not heroism.

I thought it was my duty to say something, to "do the right thing", even though everyone said it would be pointless and stupid. So I did. And I was fired. I'm no hero; I just am not willing to live like that. And now, in her memory, she knows that there will be people who will risk their job to tell her that she's wrong.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Pick it up, it's very shiny
We'll maybe get Feingold, and maybe get McCain or Hagel, but chances are it will be Ben Nelson/Hillary vs. Jeb/Condi.

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Originally posted by Dreamtrove:
Citizen, did you meet her at the con in london?

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Not picking up the shiny easy way to annihilation is your whole deal, so I doubt it DT.
I have even worse nightmares about this election than I did about the last one.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
ut the one ring is so shiny ;)
I might need a Sam Gamgee to carry it for me. He better not turn out to be a Smaegol.
Oh dear, I'm just too geeky for this

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