REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 20:32
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VIEWED: 4712
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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 5:57 PM

DREAMTROVE


I watched the senate debate the budget today.

Democrat: let's close some loopholes and spend, that will fix the problem.

Republican: Tax and Spend Democrats! Hiss! Let's take the money from 920.

Democrat: There's no money in nine twenty. That's just another way of saying you'll take out a loan! Borrow and Spend Republican! Hiss!

Republican: There's no money in the loopholes, we closed those loopholes and spent the money already.

Democrat: We can't borrow. Look at the debt. Up it goes.

Republican: We can't tax. Look at the sagging economy.

Democrat: Here's an idea: Let's close some loopholes and spend, that will fix the problem...



I began to wonder if there was anyone in the senate who could see this who sinking ship thing. Only one proposal actually suggested we reduce spending: A Snowe(R)-Wyden(D) amendment which would change the medicare cost analysis to the same as the one used for the VA, which would save us a couple hundred billion. Sounded like a good idea.

Anyway, just thought that our govt, which is now spending $3T a year and has a debt of $9T and long term liabilities of $53T.

Fifty Three Trillion Dollars. The GDP of Earth is only $55 Trillion.
Anyway, wondered if anyone here had any ideas on how to fix this problem, or anything we can do about it.


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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 9:10 PM

DREAMTROVE


$$$Bump$$$

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 9:23 PM

SASSALICIOUS


use a 3 dollar homemade car bombs to fight war instead of multi-billion dollar contracts with boeing, lockheed martin, and whatever the others are called.

but that's not very realistic.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 11:28 PM

AUSSAY


Pull out of Irag and reduce the military budget, especially the billions on research and weapon development


"Shake your head boy, your eyes are stuck"

www.fireflyfans.net
http://www.browncoatsriseagain.com/

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Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:49 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Stop Gangsta Govt from looting $70-trillion/year from CAFR govt pension funds, which could be used to run ALL govt ops without ANY taxation of any kind. RAISE taxes on imports to equalize wages via FAIR Trade. Halt ALL new construction on govt projects. Pull out of 60 nations including Iraq, and put half of all troops and national guard on the borders, with orders shoot to kill all Mexican civilians, police and soldiers (just like Iraq). Deport 30-million illegal aliens, including "anchor babies".
http://cafrman.com


www.police-state.net

USA no longer exists thanks to NAFTA SHAFTA, which merged USA with Mexico and Canada, which is part of 55-nation British Commonwealth, run by the German dictator Queen of England, for the "British" Empire (Anglo-Sino Alliance). That's why cops aren't allowed to arrest 30-million criminal aliens in USA today, with 7,000 more invading USA every day, with immunity from prosecution for criminal trespass. Where's that pussy HERO/ZERO when ya need him? USA DOA RIP.


www.whatreallyhappened.com/Aug02articles.html

"No mandatory registration markings on the bow. Make sure we cite them for that. Your ship and its contents will be auctioned. The proceeds of its sale will go to pay for your defense."
-Alliance commander

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO (VERSION 2)
Dobson: You're gonna kill a lawman in cold blood?
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

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Thursday, March 16, 2006 4:58 AM

HERO


Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Where's that pussy HERO/ZERO when ya need him?


Guess I'm too busy putting people in jail for real crimes. I don't have time to deal with your 'crazy talk'.

I am driving to a neighboring county next week to be a "special prosecutor" (turns out I'm "special" after all)...if I see any illegal aliens I'll try and run them over. Thats the most I can do for you, aside from recomending a good therapist and that you up your dose of anti-depressant medication.

As for saving the government from economic disaster. I work, pay my taxes, have bought a new TV/car/house, and vote for fiscally sound Republican candidates. I've done my part. Now you want real economic stability then you need to address health care costs and energy production. Until we do, things are just going to putter along like they have been for the last ten years or so Bush/Clinton/and whoever is next.

H

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Thursday, March 16, 2006 5:19 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:
Originally posted by SASSALICIOUS:

use a 3 dollar homemade car bombs to fight war instead of multi-billion dollar contracts with boeing, lockheed martin, and whatever the others are called.

but that's not very realistic.


It seems to be working okay for the enemy.


Quote:
Originally posted by AUSSAY:

Pull out of Irag and reduce the military budget, especially the billions on research and weapon development


We can't really pull out of Iraq until we destroy it. I mean, literally, split it in three to avoid a civil war. But I disagree where the fat is in the military budget. I think weapons research is probably the better part, but we should kill WMD projects in favor of things like missile defense. It would be nice to be able to stop OBL when he gets his hands on a nuclear missile rather than just sit back, watch, and then swear vengeance.



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Thursday, March 16, 2006 5:33 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate News:

Stop Gangsta Govt from looting $70-trillion/year from CAFR govt pension funds


This number seems off to me. I don't think there are $70 trillion dollars a year to be had, sinc ethe GDP of Earth is only $55 Trillion, which was in my post.

The best answer to this IMhO is privatize social security.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate News:

Pull out of 60 nations including Iraq


I'm not at all sure this is a good idea. We could reduce our forces in Germany, and we're doing that, but we maybe should keep an army in S. Korea just in case. Not adding a war with Iran would be a start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate News:

Put half of all troops and national guard on the borders, with orders shoot to kill all Mexican civilians


Now you're just talking crazy talk. Here's a solution: Merge with Mexico. Screw the border. If the Mexicans were already *in* America, they would stop coming *to* America. There's no flood of people from Alabama into California. in spite of the fact that Alabama is really no better off than Mexico. No one is coming to NY from South Carolina, which is arguably in worse shape than Mexico (Anyone been there lately?) But this is an immigration issue, it doesn't really affect the budget.


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Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:00 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero:

I work, pay my taxes, have bought a new TV/car/house, and vote for fiscally sound Republican candidates. I've done my part. Now you want real economic stability then you need to address health care costs and energy production. Until we do, things are just going to putter along like they have been for the last ten years or so Bush/Clinton/and whoever is next.


Ah, someone who understands the problem. I think I need to post the budget here so people get the idea, which I'll go dig up a graphic in a sec.

Electing conservative republicans is probably a good start, but you can also write your elected representatives and tell them your ideas. If you don't, they're more likely to bow to other ideas they get from other letters, which are often paid for by lobby groups.

My local congressman was here talking about the works. He said he gets maybe 50 to a 100 'unique' letters on each issue/bill as it comes up. He said that the unique letter is one that has the appearance of being written by a sole individual citizen with their own unique ideas. Everything else they get is part of a group effort. These group efforts ultimately get reduced to one letter. If you get 1000 people to send something in, he says only one copy or letter goes into his file. If he thinks it's not a sincere voice of the people, but some organized spamming, move-on.org or something, then zero copies go into the file.

Health care costs are probably the main concern in the budget. I was looking for particular ways to do that.

To me, the energy production answer is easy, we need to give up on oil. This is one area where I agree with Bush, or, at least what he says. Actually, I agree with most of his state of the union address, except the parts about being hawkish on Iran. A war with Iran will not only hurt our budget, it will up our global death toll, and permanently put the fatal gun shot to our international image. Our new image as "genocidal anti-arab crusaders" will not be attracting international customers to american business. But I digress.

Here's the Washington Post's Budget:



This budget doesn't account for supplementals for defense appropriations, which need to stop. I think were up to another 5%-10% being tacked on to the budget each year in defense appropriations supplementals.


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Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:07 AM

DREAMTROVE


Two questions. What's "Income Security" and why are there two things for "Health" and "Medicare". Hero is right, the biggest block there is healthcare spending, but it's just in two blocks. But what's "Income Security"? I googled this with no luck.

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Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:19 AM

HERO


Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
To me, the energy production answer is easy, we need to give up on oil.

I disagree...in part. Long term we do need to reduce and eventually eliminate (as much as possible) oil use by the United States.

But short term we need to embrace oil. New exploration and drilling is a good start, just look at Mexico's huge find in the gulf.

What we really need is a few new refineries. Lets build a bunch of refineries. We build them with American steel, they employ American workers (at good wages), they pay American taxes, and the increased supply of gas and heating oil means lower energy costs nation wide, this spurs increased consumer consumption, more service economy money, more tax revenue, greater prosperity, less crime, and more productivity. Not to mention our increased refining capacity will allow us to replace existing dirty refineries built prior to 1978 with modern clean refineries built on 21st Century technology (the same idea would work for power plants since we have not built one of those in decades either...stupid enviromentalists, they hurt their own cause and the public at the same time).

Later, after we've reduced our own need for oil we resell the refined product to China and other third world nations whose thirst for oil cannot be as successfully managed by their technological prowess.

H

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Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:30 AM

DREAMTROVE


Hero,

Sorry, I misspoke. What I meant to say is we need to abandon oil consumption. I think we should still produce and sell it. Alternative energies are really way ahead of oil in cost effectiveness, and the entire country should start switching over. We can afford to do this with ease. We should sell our oil overseas, and compete with OPEC.

As they would say in teh seante, if you would support my alternative energy consumption initiative, I'd support your oil production expansion initiative.

Still trying to figure out what "Income Security" is. Either it's pensions or it's welfare. I want to find out which before I suggest it's a place where money can be saved.

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Thursday, March 16, 2006 2:07 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


As an ex-Fed with 15 years of experience in Gangsta Govt, in USAF as a nuke weapons specialist who filed criminal charges against a 4-star general which got him fired, as a citizen-informant who convicted a US Govt hitman assassin for murder, as a citizen prosecutor who filed felony charges against car-thieving terrorist bombers and Republican Skull & Bones ambassador, I know a crook when I smell one.
www.piratenews.org/how-to-catch-a-govt-hitman.html
www.geocities.com/pentagon_whistleblower
www.geocities.com/towcrime

And "Hero" stinks. Just this week, I went head-to-head with an admittedly incompetent lying prosecutor, while cross-examining a lying copster on the witness stand, and filed 7 criminal charges against that rookie cop. That was FUN. I've already gotten a thieving court clerk fired after cross-examining him pro se, I got a cop's patrol car taken away after I pulled his personnel file showing he crashed his cop car into innocent bystanders 4 times in 5 years, and I got 100 car-thieving tow-truckers fired for fraud.
www.dealsgapdragon.com
www.FasterThanASpeedingTicket.net

The simplist cure: Arrest ALL Republican gangmembers as the confessed terrorists that they are, and torture them to death by natural causes in Gitmo without trial. Bonus points for raping their children in front of them on video, like Abu Ghraib.

One Thousand A Month Tortured To Death In Iraq
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/730

Quote:
"One of them made cuts in my penis. I was in agony"

London Guardian

Benyam Mohammed travelled from London to Afghanistan in July 2001, but after September 11 he fled to Pakistan. He was arrested at Karachi airport on April 10 2002, and describes being flown by a US government plane to a prison in Morocco.

They cut off my clothes with some kind of doctor's scalpel. I was naked. I tried to put on a brave face. But maybe I was going to be raped. Maybe they'd electrocute me. Maybe castrate me.

They took the scalpel to my right chest. It was only a small cut. Maybe an inch. At first I just screamed ... I was just shocked, I wasn't expecting ... Then they cut my left chest. This time I didn't want to scream because I knew it was coming.

One of them took my penis in his hand and began to make cuts. He did it once, and they stood still for maybe a minute, watching my reaction. I was in agony. They must have done this 20 to 30 times, in maybe two hours. There was blood all over. "I told you I was going to teach you who's the man," one eventually said.

They cut all over my private parts. One of them said it would be better just to cut it off, as I would only breed terrorists.

www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1540552,00.html


That's a good idea, just spay and neuter all Republicans. After all, Bush passed his executive orders legaling kidnapping, torture, rape and murder of his alleged enemies. So the Republicans are America's worst enemies.

And my uncle is the Republican mayor who first gave away US courts, police jobs AND TAXDOLLARS to REDflex Robocops in AUSTRALIA (but even he refused to vote for Bush Jr after learning Bush perped 9/11).
www.redflex.com.au
www.piratenews.org/kill-robocops.html

My little brother is now a Republican candidate for judge, in a futile attempt to infiltrate the traitors, since our county voting machines are run by Danaher, a foreign military contractor that "loses" 20,000 to 100,000 registered votes per county in each "election".
www.metropulse.com/articles/2006/16_10/ear.shtml
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/piratenewsrss/message/99
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/piratenewsrss/message/185

Especially arrest that traitor Hero/Zero, for prosecuting victimless crimes, to aid and abet carjacking and armed robbery of honest hardworking citizens, which is what 99% of all prosecutions are. How many families have you destroyed, Mr Zero? How much cocaine and alcohol do you consume, with temporary immunity from prosecution for DUI? Is your family in the Mafia, like that faggot transvestite prosecutor Sir Rudy Giuliani Knight of the British Empire? Do you wipe your ass with the Constitutions? Are you a faggot rapist like your hero president? When you do catch a real criminal, half the time they're employed as govt informants with immunity from prosecution, aren't they? Most of the rest get a short torture in a Death Camp, guaranteed to drive them insane, for predatory release upon the public, to "justify" your Police State. What a pathetic career, covering up for your criminal superiors, while feeding upon the sheeple.

That's why USA was born, by terminating all judges, prosecutors and police who aided and abeted the dictator of England. Or have you never read the Declaration of Independence?
www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/declaration.htm
l

If the Democrat gangmembers get out of line, then do the same to them, starting with those traitors who voted for the anti-American U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act (which made EVERY victimless "crime" an act of "terrorism"), and funding, er, borrowing from foreign banksters, for the Iraq War, er "United Nations Corporation Police Action".

Quote:
SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

(a) DOMESTIC TERRORISM DEFINED- Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

`(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--
`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
`(B) appear to be intended--
`(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
`(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:h.r.03162:


Funny, how the Police State now fits the definition of "terrorism"...

But USA has no govt, just illiterate enemy collaborators and impotent whistleblowers - game over. Or perhaps I'm just disgruntled that Gangsta Govt stole my wife's pension, stole my pension, and butchered my wife in Nazi "medical school experiments".
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/782

Quote:
"The White House has given permission for a company owned by the government of Dubai to run 21 U.S. ports, including the Port of New York. Dubai was accused of supporting the Sept. 11th attacks and was one of only three countries to support the Taliban. … What's next, we'll put Mexico in charge of immigration? How about Dick Cheney in charge of gun safety? Courtney Love in charge of Olympic drug testing?"
—Jay Leno (the rest of the US ports are already owned by Communist China and its Commie Peoples Liberation Army)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/739

"Government control of Communications and Transportation."
-Communist Manifesto, 6th Plank, written by Jew Karl Marx in London, England

"You will be happy to learn that the former head of the KGB (the secret police of the former Soviet Union), General Yevgeni Primakov, has been hired as a consultant by the US Department of Homeland Security."
-Al Martin, www.AlMartinRaw.com, Behind the Scenes in the Beltway, "Get Ready for the USSA (The United Soviet States of America)," March 17, 2003

Spirit of 76 - 76% of voters vote to impeach and arrest Bush, Cheney & Gang
Vermont community favors removing president. The article, approved 121-29 in balloting by paper, calls on Vermont's lone member of the House, Independent Rep. Bernie Sanders, to file articles of impeachment against the president, alleging that Bush misled the nation into the Iraq war and engaged in illegal domestic spying. Other cities nationwide have taken up resolutions calling for Bush's impeachment, notably San Francisco. At least three other southern Vermont towns endorsed similar resolutions.
www.knoxnews.com/kns/national/article/0,1406,KNS_350_4522736,00.html

"There's a report out tonight that 24-years ago I was apprehended in Kennebunkport, Maine, for a DUI. That's an accurate story. I'm not proud of that. I oftentimes said that years ago I made some mistakes. I occasionally drank too much and I did on that night. I was pulled over. I admitted to the policeman that I had been drinking. I paid a fine. And I regret that it happened. But it did. I've learned my lesson."
—Governor George Bush Jr, CNN Larry King Live, November 2, 2000
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0011/02/lkl.00.html

Kennbunkport Maine police report of Bush arrest, handcuffing, incarceration in prison, and conviction for criminal misdemeanor for drunk driving
www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html

Military records of George Bush Jr's felony conviction for disobeying a direct order to take a drug test, AWOL and desertion of Vietnam Wars, sentenced to revokation of his military pilot license and sentenced to six months extra duty
www.awolbush.com

Dick Cheney's 2 arrests, incarcerations and convictions for drunk driving
www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/cheney_doc.html

Dick Cheney's White House chief of staff arrested - Homosexual pedophile Jew Scooter Libby indicted for obstruction of justice, perjury and conspiracy for following Jew Cheney's illegal orders to name CIA covert agents who stopped Bush from planting Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq
www.piratenews.org/weblog.html

Junior White House career criminal arrested in 2006 - US President George W Bush’s political adviser has been charged with allegedly stealing more than $5,000 from department stores. The president said he was “shocked” on hearing the news about Claude Allen, who resigned as his domestic policy adviser in February. Mr Allen is charged with at least 25 thefts from Target and Hecht’s stores. Bush Jr was also arrested for theft as a student at Yale.
www.rinf.com/columnists/news/bush-adviser-charged-with-thefts

JOKE OF THE DAY

Can you imagine working at the following company? It has a little over 500 employees with the following statistics:

29 have been accused of spousal abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
19 have been accused of writing bad checks
117 have bankrupted at least two businesses
3 have been arrested for assault
71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug related charges
8 have been arrested for shoplifting
21 are current defendants in lawsuits
In 1998 alone:
217 traffic violations
Over 100 were stopped for drunk driving
3,000 unpaid parking tickets were issued


Can you guess which organization this is? Give up? Scroll down for the answer...








It's the 535 members of your United States Congress. The same group that perpetually cranks out hundreds upon hundreds of new laws designed to keep the rest of us in line. By claiming "Constitutional immunity" our political overseers avoid criminal prosecution for all traffic crimes. These are only statistics for Washington DC, Virginia and Maryland police files, and do not reflect traffic crimes committed in other jurisdictions.

PS: This is not a joke.


YOUR LOVING PSYCHO BIG BROTHERS - Georges Bush, Dick cheney and 3,000 other world dictators performing annual "mock" human sacrifice to Molech/Lucifer/Satan at Jewish homosexual nudist colony at Bohemian Grove, in Full Monte Rio, California, with police protection by Secret Service, FBI and Sonama County Sheriff Dept
www.sonomacountyfreepress.com
www.infowars.com/bg1.html

MP3 radio interview: Ralph Nader talks about Bush in drag peeing on trees at Bohemian Grove:
www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/bohos/nader.html

Video Downloads - Alex Jones infiltrates Bohemian Grove:
www.archive.org/details/DSIBG
www.global-elite.org/realmedia/b0h3m1EwQERfdds746gd3giw8cxvctdk22.ram
www.lastingnetworks.com/alex



Video Trailer Download: Philip K. Dick's "A Scanner Darkly"
Starring Alex Jones, Keanu Reeves, Winona Ryder, Woody Harrelson and Robert Downey Jr
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/736

Boners at Bohemian Grove - Music Video by Counter Coup and John Lee
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/6737.php

Snuff kiddie porn at Bohemian Grove - Alex Jones of Infowars.com interviews Senator John DeCamp author of The Franklin Coverup, music by Counter Coup and Bohemian Club
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/6737.php

River Tam's REAL-WORLD NAZI/CIA torture chamber for 1,000s of caged kids, as shown by Joss in BTVS (The Chosen One child was killed in a cage suspended from the ceiling by Spike the vampire - Barbara Bush calls George W "The Chosen One"):

CHINA LAKE WEAPONS DIGEST - 50 YEARS OF PROVIDING THE FLEET WITH THE TOOLS OF THE TRADE
(Originally prepared for the 50th anniversary edition of The Rocketeer, China Lake's in-house newspaper, 4 Nov 1993)
www.nawcwpns.navy.mil/clmf/weapdig.html

SECRET CITY - A HISTORYOF THE NAVY AT CHINA LAKE
www.ridgenet.net/~clmf/clmf/secret.html

Quote:
The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave

by Fritz Springmeier & Cisco Wheeler

Chapter 2: Science # 2 The Traumatization and Torture of The Victim

The Initial Splites and Initial Programming Done At China Lake, CA.

The primary or initial torture for many children in western U.S. was done at China Lake which officially has gone under the designations Naval Ordinance Test Station (pronounced in short as NOTS), Naval Weapons Center, NWC, Ridgecrest (the town nearby), and Inyo-kern (the area). The address of Nimitz Hospital is the code "232 Naval Air Weapons Station". The base was set up to test "new weapons". Evidently, the Navy decided that mind controlled people were an important weapon to test. Most of the "new weapons" created at China Lake were for the most part human robots turned out in large numbers. The Monarch Mind Control was carried out in large airplane hangers on the base which have been able to house thousands of tiny cages just large enough for human babies. Lots of 1,000 babies was a small batch. According to people who worked in the hangers helping program, many batches were 2,000 or 3,000 babies. Many survivors remember the thousands of cages housing little children from ceiling to floor. The cages were hot wired (electrified on the ceiling, bottom and sides) so that the children who are locked inside can receive horrific electric shocks to their bodies to groom their minds to split into multiple personalities. These cages are called Woodpecker Grids. A male Monarch victim remembers a large hanger building at China Lake with a concrete floor and row after row of cages suspended from the ceiling filling the large building. One of the Programmers was dressed similar to a Catholic Priest. The electric current that ran to the cages made a hum, like an electric fence. There was a marble slab that served as an altar where black-hooded robed people would take a bone handled knife and sacrifice little children in front of the other children in the cages. Charles Manson, a programmed Monarch slave who received initial programming at China Lake , lived with his cult only 45 miles north-west of China Lake at the remote Myers and Barker ranches.

www.whale.to/b/sp/for.html


Hmmm. I installed an electric fence for my dogs today. It pegged my VOM at 250 volts. Mind kontrol for the masses and their livestock.


Titanic BYOB - Bring Your Own lifeBoat.

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO - VERSION 2
(Mal shoots Fed in the head - as seen on PNTV)
Dobson: You're gonna kill a lawman in cold blood?
Joss, what the fuck were you THINKING?!
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

Do you finally comprehend why Fox censored Firefly, and why Bush Sr and the Queen are censoring Serenity - and why millions of people love Joss?

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Thursday, March 16, 2006 7:43 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:
As an ex-Fed with 15 years of experience in Gangsta Govt, in USAF as a nuke weapons specialist who filed criminal charges against a 4-star general which got him fired,


Yeah, I read this piece and sent you an email about it, don't know if you got that.

Quote:
And "Hero" stinks.


Nah, I sometimes think he's big headed, but there are worse things in the world than a partisan republican.

Quote:
The simplist cure: Arrest ALL Republican...


Nah. We're the good guys. Um, well, until recently. When'd we turn evil? Where was I? Maybe we can just cna Aniken Bush.

Quote:
And my uncle is the Republican mayor who first gave away US courts, police jobs AND TAXDOLLARS to REDflex Robocops in AUSTRALIA


Quote:
My little brother is now a Republican candidate for judge, in a futile attempt to infiltrate the traitors


Really, we're not that bad. I mean we ended slavery, stopped the killing of the indians, gave women the vote, ended the cold war. Lots of good stuff there.

Quote:
"loses" 20,000 to 100,000 registered votes


Okay, people cheat, but it's not party policy, is it? The democrats have been cheating since Kennedy.

Quote:
Especially arrest that traitor Hero/Zero, for prosecuting victimless crimes


Hero, what do you prosecute?


Quote:
faggot transvestite prosecutor Sir Rudy Giuliani Knight of the British Empire


I'm not overly fond of him myself. Mostly because he's a paranoid lunatic. Bloomberg is much better.

Quote:
If the Democrat gangmembers get out of line, then do the same to them, starting with those traitors who voted for the anti-American U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act


Democrats have done plenty of evil, but - and now this is serious - How do you reconcile, yourself?

I mean you're about to sentence all of the democrats to torture for voting for the USAPATRIOT Act, which they all did except for one, and yet you rant against jews, and the *only* senator to oppose the patiot act was a jew, Russ Feingold.

I mean, you are awful negative on the lot of us, on the collective people of the US of A, At some point, you gotta pick a team, or at least a couple of players you like. You can't just stand in the middle of the field shooting anything that moves.

For me, Mr. Feingold is the good guy. I don't agree with him 100% of the time, but that doesn't make him wrong, and me right. I agree with most republicans most of the time, so I collectively support them. I don't support this Bush guy. I don't support real crooks like Tom Delay. But if some republican got money from Jack Abramoff, so what. I gotta focus my energy on opposing people who are actively evil, folks who introduce war resolutions with the intent to start a new military conflict like Hillary did with her resolution to condemn Iran which I believe got tabled.

Quote:
SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM.


Mr. Feingold also read this to us. He called it a definition so broad that litterally anyone the govt. decided it didn't like could be branded a terrorist.

Quote:
butchered my wife


I think this was the wrong link. What happened?

Quote:
"You will be happy to learn that the former head of the KGB (the secret police of the former Soviet Union), General Yevgeni Primakov, has been hired as a consultant by the US Department of Homeland Security."


I'm actually happy to hear that. I think he's a good guy. I wondered what happened to him after the collapse of the USSR. It's real unfortunate they ended up with Putin, who seems to be a knucklehead.

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Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:50 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:
dreamtrove wrote:

I mean you're about to sentence all of the democrats to torture for voting for the USAPATRIOT Act, which they all did except for one, and yet you rant against jews, and the *only* senator to oppose the patiot act was a jew, Russ Feingold.

I mean, you are awful negative on the lot of us, on the collective people of the US of A, At some point, you gotta pick a team, or at least a couple of players you like. You can't just stand in the middle of the field shooting anything that moves.


ANY politician who votes for ANY legislation without reading it should be JAILED WITHOUT TRIAL, WITH A LIFE SENTENCE ON DEATH ROW, as routinely done every day in every court in USA ("CIVIL contempt of court" for failure to appear after signing under duress a slave contract for a traffic ticket, or failure to pay court costs on a traffic ticket slave contract). That's what HERO/ZERO calls a "criminal" - someone who signed a slave contract with the Police State they can't afford to pay, so they rot in Debtors Prison - NOT that they committed a "crime" which CARRIES NO JAIL TIME, such as traffic tickets. Someone introduced a bill in Congress with similar sanctions for not reading bills before voting. That's one reason Jew Michael Moore got crucified (all the way to the bank), for reporting on this crime in Fahrenheit 911.

I've always said I support patriotic "Jews", tho most have zero DNA from the middle east (ancient "Israel"), since they're Khazars and AshkeNAZIS (WHITE EUROPEAN). Khazars love to genocide Sephardic Jews (dark-skinned with DNA from middle east = Spain & Mexico).

Khazars genocided 100,000 Sephardic Jewish children in Israel, via US govt contract for radiation murders disguised as "ringworm treatments". Khazar kids in Israel were NOT allowed in the "medical experiment".
www.infowars.com/articles/ps/ringworm_children_how_israeli_gov_irradia
ted_100k_kids.htm

Feingold is doing good, for now, tho I've not checked his entire voting record. Dr Henry Makow, Dr Len Horowitz, Michael Moore, JewsAgainstZionism.com are doing a great job attacking the "Jewish banksters who rule the world", attacking Bush in bed with the Bin Ladens, attacking racist Israel, and "Jewish" ADL (Luciferian Masonic Mafia) accuses THEM of anti-Semitism.

A Semite is an ARAB, NOT a "Jew" in USA or Europe, according to every dictionary. Most "Jews" are the biggest anti-Semites in the world. Every American who wants war in Iraq is by definition an anti-Semite. Arab Ralph Nader is the only candidate who dares say this in public. READ. THINK.

Bush Jr legalized "standing in a field and shooting everything that moves" in Iraq and Afghanistan, and soon Iran.

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: BLACKWATER CIA SNIPER GENOCIDING CIVILIANS IN IRAQ
www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2677403?htv=12
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/piratenewsrss/message/190

Plus Bush confessed to genociding NY City and New Orleans. Only insane lunatics say ANYTHING nice about Bush. Only a criminal traitor votes Republican, when there are 3 other major parties besides Democrat (Libertarian, Constitutional, Green). As defined by the anti-patriot USAPATRIOT Act, every person who votes Republican is a terrorist, subject to immediate arrest and torture, with no right to a lawyer, no right to trial, no bail, stripped of citizenship, raped, then summarily executed in secret. THAT IS THE LAW ACCORDING TO THE INSANE PSYCHOPATH YOU WORSHIP AS YOUR GOD.

Perhaps you need to stop drinking flouride, and switch to toothpaste sans flouride. It seems your brain is malfunctioning.

Quote:
The Flouride Conspiracy

At the end of World War II, the US government sent Charles Eliot Perkins, a research worker in chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology, to take charge of the vast Farben chemical plants in Germany. The German chemists told Perkins of a scheme which they had devised during the war and had been adapted by the German General Staff. The German chemists explained of their attempt to control the population in any given area through the mass medication of drinking water with sodium fluoride, a tactic used in German and Russian prisoner of war camps to make the prisoners "stupid and docile" (Stephen 1995). Farben had developed plans during the war to fluoridate the occupied countries because it was found that fluoridation caused slight damage to a specific part of the brain, making it more difficult for the person affected to defend his freedom and causing the individual to become more docile towards authority. Fluoride remains one of the strongest anti-psychotic substances known, and is contained in twenty-five percent of the major tranquilizers. It may not seem surprising that Hitler's regime practiced the concept of mind control through chemical means, but the American military continued Nazi research, exploring techniques to incapacitate an enemy or medicate an entire nation. As stated in the Rockerfeller Report, a Presidential briefing on CIA activities, the drug program was part of a much larger CIA program to study possible means of controlling human behavior"(Stephen 1995).
www.ekostv.com/node/125

Video Downloads: The Fluoride Deception
www.fluoridealert.org/bryson.htm
www.octive9.com/fluoride.htm

That's the lesson of Serenity - break free of your mind kontrol!

Is there an understanding here? Well all righty then. Let's get to work!
-Jayne

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Friday, March 17, 2006 5:24 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


PIRATENEWS said:
USA no longer exists thanks to NAFTA SHAFTA, which merged USA with Mexico and Canada, which is part of 55-nation British Commonwealth, run by the German dictator Queen of England, for the "British" Empire




Ahh, if only that were true. But it cant be or British actors would be getting better parts in American films.

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Friday, March 17, 2006 6:15 AM

SWORDOFWHEDON


A lot easier. Start taxing corporations what they owe, and giving them corporate welfare, and forbid them from laying anyone off as long as they're in profit (as determined by an independant agency with no corporate ties, and not their book cookers). So what if they only make 400 million in profit this year, boo-hoo

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Friday, March 17, 2006 6:29 AM

HERO


Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Hero, what do you prosecute?


Speeding, Domestic Violance, DUI's and all points in between. Throw in a child rapist or two as well.

Pirate's 'Crazy Talk' about victimless crimes means he probably was convicted of something like a DUI, drug possession, or consential sex with a minor (I only say that because thats a term I've seen most commonly associated with those crimes, I'm sorry if thats not the case). He seems to take the 'Freeman' approach to law enforcement. They are a group of people who are like ultra-liberatarians but whose lifestyle practice is limited to picking and choosing the laws and rules they want to obey.

I also note my disagreement with the 'Crazy Talk' notion that the country was founded on killing lawyers and judges. This country was founded on the quiet deliberation of lawyers like John Adams (who successfully defended the soldiers from the Boston Massacre in fron of a Boston jury) and not the drunken radicalism of his brother Sam (who makes a fine beer, but was no statesman).

That said I want to thank Mr. Pirate for his crazy talk contributions to the intellectual discourse of this forum. I'd invite him to break the laws of my City, so I could properly aquaint him with how justice is truly served...but I've got plenty of local loonies to deal with already.

H

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Friday, March 17, 2006 8:39 AM

FLETCH2


What is interesting about PN's ramblings is the evolution of the conspiracy theory. If you go back and look at theories at they existed in say 1986, 1996 and where they are now you will see how they change over time. They are a little like antibiotic resistant bacteria, they exchange traits, actors and other factors as stories mix and are retold. Parts of tales get reassembled so that they fit with whatever boogie man the theorist favours.

If you are a Ufo conspiracy theorist then Majestic 12 run the world, MKUltra is their method of controling the world and HARP is a giant mind control thumper built at the north pole to turn mankind into zombies. PN will probably call those people, tinfoil hats, nutjobs, disinformationalists or dupes. They will consider him to be a govnt plant set up to detract attention from the govs alien masters. Why? Well unless the jews are aliens the bad guys are incompatable, even if they agree on every other part of the conspiracy.

Looking at PN's posts we find......

"Jews secretly run the world" - Original origin Nazi Psyops in occupied Europe before and during WW2. They needed to get the populus behind the program, so a lot of film, book and other imagry was created and distributed a lot of which didnt go awa when the Nazi's did.

"British Empire" runs everything has various but mainly Lyndon LaRoche in it's current form. Though the older idea that they took over control from the Knights Templar was always my favourite because it lets you extend dominance back before the 1500's. A good conspiracy world government has to have been at it forever, even if that means dealing with the inconvience of explaining how they exist before they exist.

MKUltra was always a fav of mine. Any secret mind control project where the first two letters of its "Super secret codename" actually explains what it is (Mind Kontrole) points to it being either a fake or the work of Dr Evil. This made some folks uncomfortable in the late 1980's and because conspiracy nuts are nuts a serious move was made to have MKUltra redefined as a "disinformation" project to hide the REAL deal. I believe Monarch was selected because it appeared in a declassified list of project names from 1954. In any case Monarch and MKUltra/Delta played tag for a while and I now notice are considered subprojects of one another.

PN seems to be a harmless nut (as long as he isn't driving) and seems to be very immaginative and entertaining. For some reason he always makes me think of Exador, the manic preacher from Mork and Mindy who believed he had 1000's of invisable followers. I also note that he's picked the only avatar that actually looks like a crazy person. Nice touch!!

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Friday, March 17, 2006 12:20 PM

DREAMTROVE


Fletch,

Do you work for the govt?

This govt. the govt of the US or it's network of associations, CIA, etc. or a defacto govt-corporate brach like halliburton, or the govt. of texas.

The alien freaks are actually funded to discredit conspiracy theories. They probably exist all on their own. I think PN has to some degree been infected by Alex Jones and co. But this doesn't change the reality.



And everyone,


Here's another thought.

There are two types of people in the world: Conspiract theorists and people who think that two airplanes flew into the World Trade Center by accident.


I'm really quite serious. Everyone here is a conspiracy theorist. Whether you believe "Osama Bin Laden conspired with Al Qaeda to attack the US on 9.11.01," or "Bush knocked down the towers." Either one is a conspiracy theory. The only non-conspiracy solution is "planes flew into the buildings by accident, it was a coincedence it happened twice on the same morning."

If anyone here thinks that it was an accident, please, speak now. Otherwise, stop knocking the idea of a conspiracy threory being possible - you already are a believer in at least one.

The truth is most of todays accepted historical fact is riddled with what was once a conspiracy theory. I remember in a session of a senate panel interviewing Gonzalez, the Att. Gen said:

"Oh, come on, no one but a few alarmist extremists thought that bin Laden was going to attack the US"

To which one Senator said:

"Alarmist extremists turned out to be right."

During WWII, the idea that there was an extermination program going on in Germany was a conspiracy theory which was often laughed out of the room. In reality, there were several. Even for those out there who doubt the death tolls, the reality of the programs agains jews, gypsies and serbs is now established fact, to say nothing of massive slaughter of czechs poles and russians.

Another conspiracy theory is the Churchill ordered the Lusitania directly and intentionally into the course of a UBoat to create an incident. Now it's a well documented fact. Some day history books will not question that LBJ had JFK murdered.

So, todays conspiracy theories are tomorrows established facts. If we want information that we can acutally use, rather than a long dead intellectual curiosity, we must accept conspiracy theories.

That said, sure, 90% of them are wrong. But then so are 90% of scientific theories.

For the record, The Leary experiments are certainly not a work of fiction, they're definitely real, but to what extent they were part of a larger network and to what extent any such program is in effect is a matter of how you look at it. Many drugs developed to alter the perceptions of soldiers so that they would accept the orders given to them and be able to fight world war three seem to have migrated on to the street and been spread not deliberately, but by black market forces, and as a result, to some extent, we have a sheepish population. Master scheme? I tend to think random accident, but still a very real and serious issue.

The idea that university scientists with govt. contracts who developed hallucinigens, (hardcore fact so far) which were then used by the military in experiments on soldiers (Not only do I know some personally, as does PN, or he is one, but the military was censured for this by our own federal courts, so we have to count this as real) and then those drugs hit the streets (at the very least this was random profiteering) and now have alter the american response to situations (not in any desireable way. I know a few hard core drug addicts, they don't tend to be yesmen to the govt,. but are useless to society in other ways, and unable to resist govt control because they are stoned to the gills.) All of this is clearly how events unfolded if everything is cast in the most absolutely positive light. I'm not sure that PN made any inference that this was anything but the case, and this is all established fact. If in fact there was a deliberate effort to alter the minds of the american people, that's a conspiracy theory, but in so being, it doesn't discredit the idea. Joss seems to accept this as reality. You did watch the show, right?

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Friday, March 17, 2006 1:01 PM

FLETCH2


Looking at my taxes I appear to work for the US government 50% of the time, or at least they seem to take about 50% of what I earn.

It doesnt surprise me that you are in the tinfoil hat brigade. As to the question "did anyone think Bin Laden would hit the US?" It was only a matter of time. These things do not come out of the blue, if you studied nazi retoric in the 1930's you would know that the final solution was coming. Churchill understood that Stalin was bad news even during the war and the "Afgahan Arabs" that went to fight the Russians and who became Al Queda were extremely forthcoming about their eventual objectives. It wasn't that a conspiracy existed that hid any of those facts, it was that people didn't want to take them seriously. Responding to a threat takes time and money which will be wasted if the threat fails to materialise. Hence faced with a the choice between spending tax dollars guarding against an unlikely disasterous consequence or just hoping it never happens most folks hope it doesnt happen.

Prediction for you. Al Q won't get a suitcase nuke --- too costly, hard to distribute and use. A dirty bomb is more a terror weapon than a real killer. Next big move for maximum impact. Infect "martyrs" with something nasty and send them on international flights which start and terminate through at least 2 major hubs.

Look for a SE Asian, travelling with a woman, booked on one journey with multiple connections or undertaking several shorter flights in a 2 day period.

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Friday, March 17, 2006 2:39 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:
FLETCH2 wrote:

Looking at my taxes I appear to work for the US government 50% of the time, or at least they seem to take about 50% of what I earn.


You can cure that by starting your business, as a sole proprietorship. Pick your hobby - or hobbies. Then you can deduct all your expenses (vacations, vehicles, inventory) from your regular salary. The art is being able to live your life as that 2nd business. What rich folk call a "tax shelter". Businesses pay no taxes, even when they profit by billions of dollars. You don't even have to steal 100$ of million$ in corporate welfare, like the Bushes, to make a real profit. You just double your income by not paying income tax nor sales tax. And your business might eventually make you more money than your slave job.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Hero, what do you prosecute?


Speeding, Domestic Violance, DUI's and all points in between. Throw in a child rapist or two as well.

Pirate's 'Crazy Talk' about victimless crimes means he probably was convicted of something like a DUI, drug possession, or consential sex with a minor (I only say that because thats a term I've seen most commonly associated with those crimes, I'm sorry if thats not the case). He seems to take the 'Freeman' approach to law enforcement. They are a group of people who are like ultra-liberatarians but whose lifestyle practice is limited to picking and choosing the laws and rules they want to obey.

I also note my disagreement with the 'Crazy Talk' notion that the country was founded on killing lawyers and judges. This country was founded on the quiet deliberation of lawyers like John Adams (who successfully defended the soldiers from the Boston Massacre in fron of a Boston jury) and not the drunken radicalism of his brother Sam (who makes a fine beer, but was no statesman).

That said I want to thank Mr. Pirate for his crazy talk contributions to the intellectual discourse of this forum. I'd invite him to break the laws of my City, so I could properly aquaint him with how justice is truly served...but I've got plenty of local loonies to deal with already.


So you're Nurse Ratchet living in a Loony Bin called Misdemeanor Court... I call it Slave Court. It sure ain't NOTHIN like the People's Court on TeeVee. When a defendant don't know Rules of Procedure, nor what "pro se" means, they get eaten alive by the judge, with or without a lawyer.


Death Squads in USA

What a depressing hellhole to work in, day after day, month after month, year after year. I bet you drink A LOT of alcohol. You're aimin' to be one of them greedy poly tick-ians (many blood-sucking creatures). Probably want an invitation to take your clothes off at Bohemian Grove, and hold Georgie Bush's weewee.

Yeah, the Revolutionary War was a conspiracy theory. And history books are a figment of imagination.

Quote:
"I saw two officers as before, who rode up to me, with their pistols in their hands, said God damn you stop, if go an Inch further, you are a dead Man, and swore if we did not turn in to that pasture, they would blow our brains out. Major Mitchel of the 5th Regt clapd his Pistol to my head, and said he was going to ask me some questions, if I did not tell the truth, he would blow my brains out. I told him I esteemed myself a man of truth, that he had stopped me on the highway, & made me a prisoner, I knew not by what right; I would tell him the truth; I was not afraid."
—Lt Col Paul Revere, owner of RevereWare, sworn affidavit: "Memorandum on Events of April 18, 1775" (declassified Top Secret), while under arrest (and subsequent escape) from Redcoat martial-law traffic police at Minute Man National Historic Park, Paul Revere Capture Site, on the eve of the American Revolutionary War and kicking off the Battle of Lexington and Concord, against the army, navy and courts of King George III, heriditary dictator of England who attempted "gun control" by an Assault Weapons Ban of defensive 50-caliber muskets and cannon, Paul Revere's Ride, by David Hackett Fischer
www.patriotresource.com/documents/revere.html


Yeah, it must be easy to knock heads off the gullible sheeple, who falsely believe the pathological lies from Media Mafia, that alcohol Prohibition is over. As if "underage adults" are a conspiracy theory. Sheeple falsely believe there's a "passing score" for blood-alcohol tests - when even "underage adults" usually have a so-called passingscore of 0.02%BAC. Sheeple falsely believe PASSENGERS and NONdrinkers aren't convicted every day of Drunk DRIVING. You must really laugh at those suckers, as you drink your beer and drive home. Are you an alcoholic yet? Or just a regular drunk driver? Sober as a judge?

Quote:
"Strictly speaking, a driver can register a BAC of 0.00% and still be convicted of a DUI. The level of BAC does NOT clear a driver when it is below the 'presumed level of intoxication.'"
—verbatum quote from Tennessee Driver Handbook and Driver License Study Guide (1999-2006, also available in SPANISH for 250,000 ILLEGAL aliens sold driver licenses by TN since 9/11/2001)
www.geocities.com/prohibition_us/contents.html


That's because a person is already under arrest before the BAC test, isn't it? And Gangsta Govt can't drop charges against innocent people without getting sued for false arrest and false imprisonment, can it?


Manual on Uniform traffic Control Devices, US DOT, Page 2J-3

"Speeding" is not a crime, it's breach of a fraudulent contract signed under duress (which renders it void). According to US govt reports, the most dangerous speed to drive is BELOW the posted speed limit, and it's SIX TIMES SAFER to drive ABOVE the speed limit. The safest speed to drive is above the speed limit, as every driver learns in their first month of driving in the Real World. The 85th Percentile Speed is the speed 85% of people are driving, which is the minimum safe speed. That's why the German Autobahn has NO speed limit, but is far safer than the 55mph limit in USA. That's why insurance companies demanded the speed limit be raised to 70mph, to REDUCE the number of crashes. NO speed limit sign is valid without a traffic engineering survey of the speed of normal traffic.

The PEOPLE determine the speed limits, NOT Gangsta Govt. Or did you not know THE PEOPLE are the Fourth Branch of GOVT? Just like is says in the US Constitution.

Quote:
Unsafe at Any Speed: The Designed-in Dangers of the American Automobile

(The most-censored book in America?)

by Ralph Nader, attorney at law

For decades, speed was the subject of the most widespread slogans drummed into the public. 'Speed kills' and 'slow down and live' are familiar ones peddled by the National Safety Council. The findings showed a more complex picture of the role of speed than had ever been assumed before. Accident involvement rates are at a minimum at speeds between fifty and seventy five miles per hour.

Although obviously the severity of accidents is greater at higher speeds, the study revealed that considering accident frequency rates and severity, the number of injuries per vehicle miles traveled is at its minimum.

The law embodies an invincible rationale: 'He had an accident; therefore he violated the law.' No distinction is made between responsibility for the accident and responsibility for the injury due to unsafe vehicle design or construction. Manslaughter charges are filed routinely against drivers; there is yet to be recorded any similar charges against the manufacturers for vehicle defects.

A typical police traffic accident report has a list of 'contributing circumstances' which the officer is to check off: 'Speed too fast; failed to yield right of way; drove left of center; improper overtaking; passed stop sign; ran traffic signal; improper lights; had been drinking; and other improper driving.'

Thus the driver is heir to all the dangers created by the automobile designers, not only in terms of bodily injury but also in terms of legal exposure.

The result of this drastic imbalance in the law is the very poor quality of accident investigation in this country. Consequently, enforcement of the law brings no pressure on the car makers to increase the safety of their vehicles.

Quote:
John Lee: Does enforcement of DUI laws improve highway safety?

Ralph Nader: No, because the blame is just put on the driver, not on highway design nor the vehicle manufacturer. The blame should be on both.
www.geocities.com/ralph_nader_interview


HERO/ZERO, how many manufacturing executives, highway contractors and govt traffic engineers have you arrested for causing "DUI" crashes and fatalities via their sober criminal negligence? None? That's why I call you ZERO.

HERO/ZERO, what state do you "practice" in? How do you "prosecute" speeding tickets and traffic tickets, which are CIVIL not criminal? Or do you just pull the usual scam, and fraudulently misrepresent the law to the gullible slaves?

You must get a real laugh at the stupid slaves who don't know they CAN'T go to jail for traffic "crimes" (CIVIL breach of "voluntary" CIVIL Driver License contract), so they get scared and don't show for court, or can't afford to pay a ticket and court costs (and don't know how to apply for indigency and Homestead Exemption), so you and the judge collude to send them to jail for CIVIL Contempt of Court, which carries a life sentence on Death Row. What a scam! The first slaves sold on the auction block in America were WHITE Europeans...

Here in Tennessee, municipal courts fraudulently allege their local rules of court use Criminal Rules of Procedure. Judges scam the sheeple by demanding they "plead guilty" or "not guilty" to so-called "criminal misdemeanors" such as traffic tickets, which is IMPOSSIBLE, since TN courts ONLY allow CIVIL Rules of Procedure on appeal to Circuit Courts. Muni courts CANNOT sentence ANYBODY to jail for ANY crime, cuz the judges are appointed, or not elected to the constitutional 8-year term, or serve at the whim of city council, and are thus part of the executive branch, not judicial branch. Muni courts are merely a fraud, since they cannot perform any purpose of protecting public safety via police investigation of REAL crimes (which REQUIRE a victim). I subpoenaed the city court clerk to testify in city court, about his refusal to issue my subpoenas to police commanders with the correct month and year, and re city court's TOP SECRET DOCKET of 125,000 annual citations (in a city of 160,000). He was stealing subordinates' "bonus commission" paychecks for the past year, with full approval of the city judge and city attorney, who just made him give the money back WITHOUT ARRESTING HIM FOR FELONY THEFT AND EXTORTION. $100,000s of cash in court revenues was stting in unlocked file cabinets, unaccounted for. After I grilled the clerk on the witness stand, the city judge told me, "I (the judge) sure learned a lot today," and he fired the clerk 30 days later.

Why did I have to do the job of 400 cops and dozens of lawyers in DA's office, who covered up this conspiracy for years? And yes, I won that trial pro se after 2.5 years, on appeal to Circuit Court for trial de novo. I had the city attorney so rattled she was begging the judge, "I (the lawyer) don't know what to do!" She even dropped all her books on the floor during the trial. That was fun.

I eventually filed felony car theft charges against the police and their commanders, their tow-truck contractors, and the Skull & Bones mayor who hired them despite years of notice of complaints of theft and kidnapping. The mayor fired 100 tow-truckers and banned them 5 years for fraud, and filed 2 class actions against them, to cover his fat gay ass (that Bush Jr loves so much, and probably Bush Sr judging by huggy photos). DA continues to obstruct justice in those prosecutions of the car-theft chop-shop cartel. Because the DA is a crook who hires convicted drug-dealing hitmen serial-killers as informants, and who fires ADA's who convicted those serial killers (how dare they attempt to stop the Bush Crime Family's narcoterror rackets).

I'm just an honest American minding my own business, harming no one, which is now a daily crime in USSA, since all normal driving, and normal human relations, are redefined as "crimes" and "terrorism".

HERO/ZERO, I notice you NEVER provide concrete justification for anything you allege. Which is to be expected for most prosecutors. I'd rip your head off and shite down your neck in court, if you were dumb enough to try that scam during a trial.

You remind me of my little sister, who was a govt trial lawyer for many years, employed as a "public defender" in a major city on the US/Mexico border. SHE NEVER WON A CASE, but always got her weekly paycheck from the govt. She had NO interest in learning Constitutional Law, nor Rules of Criminal Procedure, such as textbooks on DUI law, written by winning defense lawyers. She just spent 5 minutes on each sucker, er, client, then talked them into "pleading guilty", without any investigation of their case, nor cracking a law book.

Then the govt charges the sucker, er, defendant $200 to $500 for the "free" lawyer, with a LIFE SENTENCE ON DEATH ROW for CIVIL Contempt is they can't afford to pay on the slave contract. Never mind that Gideon vs Wainwright was the pro se case that forced the US Supreme Court to give "free" lawyers to indigent defendants. You must really love watching shackled women cry in court to be let out of jail for nonpayment of a traffic ticket THAT CARRIES NO JAIL SENTENCE.

Never mind that ALL drug cases can be won by defendants pleading Constitutional Equal Protection doctrine, since the Bush Gang and CIA imports all coke and heroin into USA, or "licenses" other multinational gangs for a cut of the profits, as proven during Iran-Contra. My sis believes in open borders with Mexico, even tho her home is invaded by Methed-up Mexicans on an annual basis, including last week. Police refused to investigate local pawn shops, and her insurance refused to pay. She taught English in Commie China for Yale, so she's getting paid well to destroy USA for the Anglo-Sino Alliance. She doesn't even have an American husband. She don't give a damn about USA, nor The Law. Just like you. She brags that she has never gotten a traffic ticket, but then, she doesn't own a car. But she's an above-average driver, and formerly held a pilot's license.

Unlike YOUR president and VICE president who you worship as God, I've never been convicted of the crimes you named, nor any other crime. Do you even comprehend that Bush has led the genocide of MILLIONS of Republicans since he stole the selection in 2000? (Good riddance?) Oh, I forgot, you can't count that high. How many of those Mad Doctors have you indicted for murder, Mr ZERO? Let me guess - ZERO.
www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_01.htm


www/AmericanAutobahn.com

As for driving, I've cruised the German Autobahn at 130mph for hours at a time, just barely keeping up with LEGAL commuter traffic. And I NEVER saw a crash on the Autobahn. I raced semi-pro autoracing, at 150mph through high-G turns, in the British Formula 3 Championship. It was televised in Europe, with up to 100,000 spectators at Silverstone Circuit for the British F1 support race. The guys I raced against for years are now the highest paid drivers in the world, winning F1 championships and Indy 500s (before the current Scab 500 that bans all US teams and US drivers, to destroy the US auto industry for the NWO). And I chauffeured Ralph Nader, who fell asleep from my smooth driving despite a fed judge yacking in his ear.
www.geocities.com/snetterton_b17_pow_mia

I've attended a dozen performance driving schools and skid-control schools, which NO COP is ever allowed to attend before they slaughter innocent people with their cop cars. Dodgine traffic cones at 30mph in a parking lot DOESN'T qualify a cop for "high-speed pursuits" dodging commuter traffic. 95% of cop chases are for CIVIL service of process for a CIVIL traffic citation. Cops KILL 500 Americans every year by crashes, including 1/3rd innocent bystanders. Lynching the runaway slaves, and lynching 1,000s of innocent slaves jez to remin' 'em who's the house niggas.

I'll be damned if I pay a bogus traffic ticket for "Wreckless driving" at 50mph in a 55zone, or safely driving at 5mph, or legally parking on my own private property, from a stupid cop with a retarded IQ, who crashed his cop car 4 times in 5 years, or killed a woman in an off-duty crash. Besides, ticket quotas are ILLEGAL RACKETEERING AND ORGANIZED CRIME, according to THE LAW.

Quote:
"The New London Police Department's rejection of Robert Jordan because he scored too high on an intelligence test did not violate his rights, according to a United States District Court Judge. The city's rationale for the long-standing practice is that candidates who score too high could soon get bored with police work and quit after undergoing costly academy training. In 1996, Robert Jordan scored a 33, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. Nationally the average score for police officers, as well as office workers, bank tellers and salespeople, is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104. Police in New London, population 27,000, interviewed only those candidates who scored 20 to 27. City manager Richard Brown said the hiring process will remain the same. 'There has been nothing to come across my desk that would cause me to make a change,' he said."
—Brigitte Greenberg, Associated Press, Fox News, "Man deemed too smart for police force" September 8, 1999 (New Haven, Connecticut - home of Yale University's Skull & Bones Secret Society of Presidents Bush, Clintons and Senator Kerry)

"We don't like to hire people that have too high an IQ to be cops in this city."
—Keith Harrigan, Assistant City Manager of New London, Connecticut, Associated Press, CarTalk.com, "Connecticut Police applicant files federal lawsuit -- told he was 'too smart'," May 30, 1997

"Dumb cops, dumb cops, whatcha gonna do, whatcha going to do with a low IQ?"
—Jay Leno (owner of a 266MPH street-legal jet-engined All-American sportbike), NBC TV, Tonight Show


I take my driving, and my law, very serious. Unlike you, I don't conspire with career criminals to defraud, kidnap, rape and summarily execute the public. So THAT'S why you love the pedophile Bush Crime Family, because they RAPE little children and murder them in snuff kiddie porn at Bohemian Grove - AS CONFESSED BY GOVT TRIAL LAWYERS IN TENNESSEE COURTS!
www.trance-formation.com
www.piratenews.org/video-archive.html

So HERO/ZERO, are you rearranging chairs on the Titanic, or slitting throats of the iceberg lookouts, or just mugging the survivors and stealing their lifeboats? Me, I'm busy taking over the ship, posting lookouts, and relieving the British captain for dereliction of duty. And turning on the gorram radio!

Best of Alex Jones remixed with music MP3:
www.revereradionetwork.com/media


www.theonion.com

"And John Lee has all four wheels on the grass!"
-Murry "Muddly Talker" Walker, BBC TV, British F3 Championship, 1991-2

For every project I've done, I pull one friend. With Firefly I pulled 25. When Joss put that show together he really did it right. I love Malcom Reynolds, not because he's a wonderful guy, but because he's an empty and hollow man just trying to make it.
-Nathan, Zink - True Grit

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO - VERSION 2
(Mal shoots Fed in the head - as seen on PNTV)
Dobson: You're gonna kill a lawman in cold blood?
Joss, what the fuck were you THINKING?!
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

Pirate News TV
http://piratenews.org
John Lee - putting the PRO in Pro Se:
http://FasterThanASpeedingTicket.net
http://DealsGapDragon.com
http://AmericanAutobahn.com
(as seen on History Channel TV at a LEGAL 212mph on a public highway)


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Friday, March 17, 2006 5:55 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:
Looking at my taxes I appear to work for the US government 50% of the time, or at least they seem to take about 50% of what I earn.


Everytime I think you're just being an arrogant prig, you go and prove me wrong. This was pretty funny. I'm not wealthy enough to work for the govt. 50% of the time ;)

Quote:
It doesnt surprise me that you are in the tinfoil hat brigade.


I'm really not. I'm just thinking outside the box, looking at all the unimaginative inside the box thinkers and trying to shake them. I don't buy into master govt. plot to control us, but everything I said about MKUltra is true. Fact: Leary and co. did their work on govt. grants. fact. Fact: pentagon admitted to experiments with these drugs on soldiers. Fact: Said drugs reached the black market. Fact: population is less resistant to govt as a result. I think none of these are even remotely disputable, they're all well established. I don't think there was an underlying master scheme involved. I don't even think that PN thinks there was.

Quote:
As to the question "did anyone think Bin Laden would hit the US?"


On second though, you're a spinmeister. This was extremely not even remotely the question. We all know a fair number of folks in the CIA plus Richard Clarke thought so.

Quote:
It was only a matter of time. These things do not come out of the blue, if you studied nazi retoric in the 1930's you would know that the final solution was coming.


I know this, and if you study the parallel, it's coming around again. But this doesn't stop the fact that both were considered to be tinfoil hat land or the equivalent before they happened by obstinate folk who couldn't think outside the box.

Quote:
Churchill understood that Stalin was bad news even during the war and the "Afgahan Arabs" that went to fight the Russians and who became Al Queda were extremely forthcoming about their eventual objectives. It wasn't that a conspiracy existed that hid any of those facts, it was that people didn't want to take them seriously.


I really agree. As your are not taking it seriously now.

Quote:
Responding to a threat takes time and money which will be wasted if the threat fails to materialise.


Possibly. Also possble that people were unimaginative. Or possibly they didn't care.

Quote:
Hence faced with a the choice between spending tax dollars guarding against an unlikely disasterous consequence or just hoping it never happens most folks hope it doesnt happen.


Or they wanted it to happen.

Quote:
Prediction for you. Al Q won't get a suitcase nuke --- too costly, hard to distribute and use. A dirty bomb is more a terror weapon than a real killer. Next big move for maximum impact. Infect "martyrs" with something nasty and send them on international flights which start and terminate through at least 2 major hubs.


Honestly Bush, his sponsor, won't let him.

Quote:
Look for a SE Asian, travelling with a woman, booked on one journey with multiple connections or undertaking several shorter flights in a 2 day period.


My prediction: The nuclear attack will be against Israel, and it will come from one of our own allies. Either an arabian peninsular, or a former soviet satellite state, possibly pakistan, and it will come by sea across the mediterranean o the north coast of Israel. If I were Finn I'd look into it.

Actually, Finn, you know more about this than we do, give us you assessment, most likely scenario in which someone makes a nuclear strike.

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Friday, March 17, 2006 6:26 PM

FLETCH2


Actually you miss the plot as usual. You are suggesting that folks that foresaw the final solution or 9/11 were thinking "outside the box" and that somehow that is conparable to the foil hat brigade. The two are not even slightly similar, reasonable educated people could see the way things were going in the 1930's, folks knew what Al Q was capable of prior to 9/11. Nobody but the foil hats believes that the Greys and/or the Bavarian Illuminati or whoever really run the world.

MKUltra didn't exist, like I said even the foil hats came to the conclusion that a secret project that has the purpose of the project in the code name was a bit fishy. Overlord was not called the "let's invade mainland Europe" plan for the same reason. Super secret code names dont contain clues to what they are about, that's stupid. Yes lots of work was done on torture, drugs for interrogation, incapacitants and chemical weapons. There is actual film of US servicemen dosed with LSD and sent into the field to see if they would still function as a unit. Current US government none lethal weapons are still tested on US service personnel.

The point wasn't to make brainwashed tail for bizarre leadership orgies or other weirdness it was to come up with ways to incapacitate an enemy because ironically, living casualties are more of a problem for your enemy than dead ones. Put enough men out of action without killing them and your opposition will grind to a halt.




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Friday, March 17, 2006 7:11 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:
You are suggesting that folks that foresaw the final solution or 9/11 were thinking "outside the box" and that somehow that is conparable to the foil hat brigade.


No, it's the dogmatic perpetual denial that there is ever anything untoward transpiring that I call "inside the box" thinking. 90% of the tinfoil hat junk is nonsense. That doesn't mean, as you seem to often take it to me, that everything is on the up and up. It's a bit odd that both candidates in the last election were members of the same elitist fraternity chapter. It's not just a casual coincidence.

Quote:
The two are not even slightly similar, reasonable educated people could see the way things were going in the 1930's, folks knew what Al Q was capable of prior to 9/11.


I'm a reasonable educated person. I can see things are a bit off. I know people who are in relatively high positions who think that things are more than a bit off. People without the slightest bit of a tinfoil hat. I mean, there are people I know causally in govt. who think Bush knocked down the towers, but that doesn't mean they don't also have tinfoil hats, but I also know some who are completely straight arrows, but who can see outside this box and say to me that things are not completely on the level.

Quote:
Nobody but the foil hats believes that the Greys and/or the Bavarian Illuminati or whoever really run the world.


Of course. The bavarian illuminati doesn't exist. I don't know what greys is. Skull and bones doesn't rule the world. PNAC does :)

Quote:
MKUltra didn't exist, like I said even the foil hats came to the conclusion that a secret project that has the purpose of the project in the code name was a bit fishy.


Our govt. has already admitted that a drug-based program did exist, I have no idea what it was called.

Quote:
Overlord was not called the "let's invade mainland Europe" plan for the same reason. Super secret code names dont contain clues to what they are about, that's stupid. Yes lots of work was done on torture, drugs for interrogation, incapacitants and chemical weapons. There is actual film of US servicemen dosed with LSD and sent into the field to see if they would still function as a unit. Current US government none lethal weapons are still tested on US service personnel.


Quote:
The point wasn't to make brainwashed tail for bizarre leadership orgies or other weirdness it was to come up with ways to incapacitate an enemy because ironically, living casualties are more of a problem for your enemy than dead ones. Put enough men out of action without killing them and your opposition will grind to a halt.


Of course not, I never said it was. Okay, I just search on "MKULTRA" No one but you seems to think MK stood for Mind Kontrol. Wikipedia is very sure it's very real. Hey, my local republicans know these guys, er.. knew these guys. This suddenly becomes real verifiable. According to the entry the stated purpose was interrogation. I read elsewhere it was to soften resitance to extreme orders, which would also fit, as interrogation itself is an extreme order. It would also fit in very well with the overall scheme of early nuclear age experiments preparing for a possible nuclear war.

LSD, barbiturate, amphetamine, heroin, mescaline, psilocybin, scopolamine, marijuana, alcohol, and sodium pentothal.

I don't think that anyone thinks the CIA had any interest in mind other than protecting America, and I'm certainly not saying so now.

The way I took the idea was that public was under the influence of these drugs, and thus sedated or otherwise incapacitated from resisting the extreme agenda, not by design but as a matter of course.

Let's revisit this:

Quote:
MKUltra didn't exist


So that...

In hopes that we can put this idea that "MKULTRA never existed" to bed:

On the CIA's own website, MKULTRA is mentioned as a "drug testing" program which was put on a list of programs discontinues after watergate for being inconsistant with the agency's charter.

The point is, there is a grain of truth in much of this, and then there's an open field ranging from the possible to the completely absurd.

But you tend to slap a tinfoil hat on anything I say, such as that the people who were behind Bush are trotsky socialists, which is really pretty well established fact, and even if it weren't, you wouldn't need anything other than half a functioning brain cell to see it in their policies. The extremely strong socialist influence is so overwhelming and dominant that it dwarfs any influence from the traditional GOP agenda. Sure, once in a while Bush says something republican. The only republican thing he's actually done is to lower taxes.

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Saturday, March 18, 2006 9:48 PM

PIRATEJENNY


oldenglanddry wrote:
Friday, March 17, 2006 05:24
PIRATENEWS said:
Quote:
oldenglanddry wrote:
USA no longer exists thanks to NAFTA SHAFTA, which merged USA with Mexico and Canada, which is part of 55-nation British Commonwealth, run by the German dictator Queen of England, for the "British" Empire




Ahh, if only that were true. But it cant be or British actors would be getting better parts in American films.


I agree with Piratenews , the USA as it was no longer exist thanks to programs like NAFTA. IT IS TRUE...some of you guys are just slow on the up take. the USA is gone, about time you realize it, too bad because its already to late to do anything about it.

its all about the corporations, and thanks to the black box voting machines our future is pretty much a done deal, actually the future is now, most people just don't want to see it or believe it.

so just keep on wasting your energy yapping about the Republicans and Democrates, neither party is worth 2 cents the packaging might be a little diffrent but in the end the diffrence isn't enough to make a diffrence



whoes side are you on?
I'm on nobodys side because nobody is on my side




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Sunday, March 19, 2006 12:05 AM

CITIZEN


My general problem is the fact that anything bad done by America is apparently the fault of British Commie Nazi Jews. Anything that leads to PN not getting and doing what he wants 100% of the time is a conspiracy by the aformentioned British Commie Nazi Jews.

All I see most of the time is PN ranting about not being allowed to do what he wants all the time, having to live in society with other people. Selfishness drives most of his rants, not divine knowledge.

Also it's funny how the British Empire et al never appeared in PN's rants prior to him finding out I was British and that I disagreed with his conspiracy theories about just plain ol' Commie Nazi Jews.

Glad I could help with adding another player to la la land...


More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Sunday, March 19, 2006 6:08 AM

DREAMTROVE


We the people *are* the corporations. Obsessed that the corporations are taking over? Go down and sign up, become a corporation. It's easier than joining the military. Hell, become a lobby group, PAC, be the "special interests." Become a faith-based initative. All of these things are just euphamisms for the American People. Politicians and tin foil hat ranters alike want voters to focus their anger against the American people. Turn us against one another, ignore the real enemies of america.

Here are the enemies of America: Al Qaeda and their sponsors in the arabian penninsula. Communists everywhere. Criminals within the US but don't follow the rules of America. One of my problems with Bush is that he seems to be in league with all three. My other problem with him is that he is incompetent, and if he were my employee I'd fire him.

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Sunday, March 19, 2006 7:52 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:
Originally posted by Dreamtrove:
My other problem with him is that he is incompetent, and if he were my employee I'd fire him.

Erm, you know he kinda is...


More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Sunday, March 19, 2006 11:43 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
oldenglanddry wrote:
Friday, March 17, 2006 05:24
PIRATENEWS said:
Quote:
oldenglanddry wrote:
USA no longer exists thanks to NAFTA SHAFTA, which merged USA with Mexico and Canada, which is part of 55-nation British Commonwealth, run by the German dictator Queen of England, for the "British" Empire




Ahh, if only that were true. But it cant be or British actors would be getting better parts in American films.


I agree with Piratenews , the USA as it was no longer exist thanks to programs like NAFTA. IT IS TRUE...some of you guys are just slow on the up take. the USA is gone, about time you realize it, too bad because its already to late to do anything about it.

its all about the corporations, and thanks to the black box voting machines our future is pretty much a done deal, actually the future is now, most people just don't want to see it or believe it.

so just keep on wasting your energy yapping about the Republicans and Democrates, neither party is worth 2 cents the packaging might be a little diffrent but in the end the diffrence isn't enough to make a diffrence



whoes side are you on?
I'm on nobodys side because nobody is on my side





I also agree with PIRATENEWS, I just wish he would'nt insult the Queen (God bless 'er).

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Sunday, March 19, 2006 1:12 PM

FLETCH2


Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Of course not, I never said it was. Okay, I just search on "MKULTRA" No one but you seems to think MK stood for Mind Kontrol.



That's because you are looking for legitimate documents on the CIA project MKULTRA. That project was to test drugs as debilitants and for interegation. Amongst other things it resulted in servicemen and even scientists being dosed with LSD without their knowledge, leading to at least one suicide.

That is NOT what we are talking about. MKULTRA as defined by PN and the rest of the foil hats was a project in mind control the US got from the Germans as part of Paperclip at the end of WW2. "MK" was from the German for "Mind Kontrol." Had you researched tinfoil hat sites you would have found that definition.

That definition appeared in several conspirasist books from the late 70's onwards. I haven't been able to find the text of the books online but here are a couple of references.

"It was not until the middle or late 1970's that the American public became aware of a series of hitherto secret programs that had been conducted over the preceding two decades by the military and intelligence community. [..] these extensive covert programs bore the project titles MKULTRA, MKDELTA, MKNAOMI, MKSEARCH (MK being understood to stand for Mind Kontrol), BLUEBIRD, ARTICHOKE and CHATTER. The principal aim of these and associated programs was the development of a reliable "programmable" assassin. Secondary aims were the development of a method of citizen control [based on Walter Bowart's Operation Mind Control (Fontana Books, London 1979)]."

"20. Marks, THE SEARCH FOR "THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE", 60-61. A folk etymology has it that the "MK" of MKULTRA stands for "Mind Kontrol." According to Marks, TSS prefixed the cryptonyms of all its projects with these initials. "

The problem you have here is one that is common in conspiracy circles. Some things get declassified, like lists of project names, and the conspiracists construct entire elaborate projects based on the name without regards to what the actual project did. So in tinhat land "MkULTRA" is the government mind control project, they even labeled it as such just in case you didn't get it. This is what we are talking about and it didn't exist. Back around 1990 even tinhats began to conclude that the government wouldnt put "MK" in front of a project name if it really meant mind control. It was about then that other project names started to be considered the big-bad-project and MKULTRA started to fall out of favor.


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Sunday, March 19, 2006 6:25 PM

DREAMTROVE


Fletch,

You may be right.

I didn't got to any tinfoil hat sites in my search. If I had, I might have gotten this impression. I thought I laid out the effect of MKULTRA on society in a much more plausible way, the one which I took PN to mean it in. He should feel free to weigh in here.

But I see your point. At the time, the phrase Mind Control would have been used because it refered to any psychotropic behavior. If you enter the mental state, that was mind control, it didn't litterally me control the mind, it only came to mean that in the film Manchurian Candidate in 1962. To the best of my knowledge.

What I found led me to the conclusion that it became MKSEARCH when it was restricted to *only* interrogation, but other possible uses had been considered. In the early nuclear age, there was a serious fear that in a nuclear conflict, soldiers would lose their cool, and fail to fire on soviet silo targets or retallition positions, and that the sounter-response would be that the soviet union would completely annihilate the united states.

You're right. I don't think we had a program of Manchurian Candidate style assassins. Also I would take Mind Control to be more Mood Control, the way it would have been used.

I haven't spent that much time in tinfoil hatland. I encountered Alex Jones and David Icke before and thought they were both kooks, more over, control freaks, who sought to manipulate their audience into a following.

That doesn't mean that objectively I don't believe conspiracies exist. Largely I think the CIA are good guys, and the pentagon does what it can to win. Sometimes, clearly, they step over the line.

Conspiracies can and do exist. Quite recently, the idea that there was somehow a pentagon memo authorizing the use of torture, was dismissed as a clooney conspiracy theory, and the words "tinfoil hat" were actually used. We now know it most certainly did exist, and everyone has admitted this, and it is known as the Bybee Memorandum, and became pentagon policy.

Similarly, the idea of foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks, now proven by the August 6th PDB, was similarly dismissed, as was the idea that the plan for the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions were laid out prior to the WTC attacks, which is also now known.

So, as with hundreds of events throughout history, yesterday's conspiracy theory has become tomorrow's established fact.

This doesn't mean, certainly, that there aren't a bunch of loons our there who think the world is being controlled by aliens.

But it does mean that every logical theory needs to be carefully examined with all due skepticism, but without flat blanket upfront rejection.


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Sunday, March 19, 2006 11:09 PM

CITIZEN


I fail to see how the world being secretly controlled by British-Commie-Nazi-Jews under the control of the all powerfull British Queen (who much like the US President, has no real power) who is a devil worshiper who has regular sex orgies with George Bush Jnr while sacrificing blow up dolls to santa can be considered, by any stretch of the imagination, a logical theory.


More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Sunday, March 19, 2006 11:45 PM

FLETCH2


The MKULTRA story goes something like this. In the 1950's Stalin did a number of show trials during which various dissidents and old party members confessed to being on the West's payroll. There were some truely astounding courtroom confessions, enough that some in the US believed that the explanation had to be something other than plain old fashioned torture.

It's generally accepted now that the "Manchurian Candidate" idea was floated by the CIA to create the perception that the Soviets had a lead in mind manipulation techniques that the US had to close (much like the space race.)

We know that the CIA tried various techniques for interegation, including sense and sleep deprevation, techniques used to induce muscle stress on the body and various drugs including LSD. We also know that they experimented with LSD as a leadership debilitation weapon, ie just before a push you dose the opposing general staff with LSD to fowl up their command and control. With this in mind they did secret "deployment tests" against servicemen, scientists and government contractors to see if they could spike drinks, food etc with LSD without people realising. We know of at least one casualty of this testing.

Around 1973 things start going a little tinfoily. That was the year a former model called Candy Jones claimed that she had spent the last 10 years leading (literally) a double life as CIA agent Arlene Grant. According to Candy through drugs and hypnosis the "Grant" personality was groomed and trained as a spy, doing missions for the CIA without the primary personalities knowledge. As far as I know she never claimed any connection with MKULTRA back in '73, just a "project." Most folk didn't believe her, tinfoils did. So later when MKULTRA was partially declasified in Senate hearings, tinhatted types decided this must be Candy's "project" and the link was made (including the MK == Mind Kontrol idea.)

Now there are a number of suggestions as to what the whole "Candy" thing was about.

1) It was exactly as Candy says and she was used as a hypnotic spy by the CIA.

2) Candy was a nut.

3) Candy and her husband had a syndicated radio show at the time and this generated a lot of publicity. This was a time when the government was trusted least by people and Candy's hubby had previous history hoaxing his listeners.

4) Candy was "deprogrammed" by her husband, an amateur hypnotist, thus setting up the possibility of a false memory syndrome event.

In any case by the late 70's the connection between "mind control" and MKULTRA had been made.




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Monday, March 20, 2006 1:35 AM

CITIZEN


5) Candy was knobbing the Milkman and made up the story to explain where she went when she dissapeared on her secret "dirty" weekend "missions".

Her Husband is so dense he fell for it, along with a lot of other people.


More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 6:10 AM

DREAMTROVE


Fletch, you know a lot about this stuff.

But I agree with Citizen's explanation :)

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Monday, March 20, 2006 7:15 AM

FLETCH2


Well the problem with that is that according to Candy this had all stopped by the time she met her hubbie. Though a friend did point out that it's a fantastic way to explain any ...... gaps.... in your history.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 8:57 AM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
We the people *are* the corporations. Obsessed that the corporations are taking over? Go down and sign up, become a corporation. It's easier than joining the military. Hell, become a lobby group, PAC, be the "special interests." Become a faith-based initative. All of these things are just euphamisms for the American People. Politicians and tin foil hat ranters alike want voters to focus their anger against the American people. Turn us against one another, ignore the real enemies of america.

Here are the enemies of America: Al Qaeda and their sponsors in the arabian penninsula. Communists everywhere. Criminals within the US but don't follow the rules of America. One of my problems with Bush is that he seems to be in league with all three. My other problem with him is that he is incompetent, and if he were my employee I'd fire him.


I'm so tired of people saying that Bush and Co are incompetent they are not INCOMPETENT!!, they know exactly what they are doing, its deliberate, I know thats hard for some people to fanthom but its the truth.
we the people are corporations !! ROTFLMAO!!

Isn't it suppose to be we the people are the government, government by the people for the people.

Corportations represent their own interest not mines or the welfare of the people.

keep on telling yourself that, yes sure I could go out and start a corportaion, but without the finances and power of a large monied corporation it wouldn't really matter one way or the other, buy yourself a clue Dreamtrove, you can't be serious!! maybe I should have said Big Corporations.

most people just aren't looking at things the way they really are, Big Corporations are practically running the country now, and with Bush and his cronies in office they are making it happen.And YES big corporations are the enemy for the most part because they are going to be our undoing,does it have to be that way, NO it doesn't but thats the way it is,Alot of these corporations have no vested intrest in the U.S.A thats why they take their companies overseas to countries like India for the cheaper labor while leaving us high and dry, selfishness, greed, run rampant, the only thing they want Americans to do is keep consuming, look at the laws and bills that have been passed that benifit corporations but not the citazen, the clear skies initative is just one example, or the laws they are passing in the dead of night that make our water unsuitable to drink, or the USDA standards thatlets the corpations give us chemically tainted food. Our standard of living are going way down, you might not realize it now, but you will, everyone is so focused on other things gawd knows there are many things to be distracted and focused on, but its our own country thats in serious trouble. but until it starts directly effecting you, your going to continue to live in la,la land, what will it take for people to wake up and see, my guess is the middle class being squeezed out until there is only those that have and those that do not, but my then it will be to late, it already is..I guess it must be nice to live in la,la land to bask in the bubble before it pops. re-arrange all the deck chairs you want, it doesn't matter this ship is sinking, its going down.

Al Qaeda and other terroist groups are just one of many enemies of the U.S.A but frankly I'm more concerned with our own current government then I am of Al Qaeda! actually Al Quaeda doesn't bother me at all,they are going to do what they are going to do reguardless.

but thanks for the laugh

whoes side are you on??
I'm on nobodys side, because nobodys on my side

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Monday, March 20, 2006 9:23 AM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Of course not, I never said it was. Okay, I just search on "MKULTRA" No one but you seems to think MK stood for Mind Kontrol.



That's because you are looking for legitimate documents on the CIA project MKULTRA. That project was to test drugs as debilitants and for interegation. Amongst other things it resulted in servicemen and even scientists being dosed with LSD without their knowledge, leading to at least one suicide.

That is NOT what we are talking about. MKULTRA as defined by PN and the rest of the foil hats was a project in mind control the US got from the Germans as part of Paperclip at the end of WW2. "MK" was from the German for "Mind Kontrol." Had you researched tinfoil hat sites you would have found that definition.

That definition appeared in several conspirasist books from the late 70's onwards. I haven't been able to find the text of the books online but here are a couple of references.

"It was not until the middle or late 1970's that the American public became aware of a series of hitherto secret programs that had been conducted over the preceding two decades by the military and intelligence community. [..] these extensive covert programs bore the project titles MKULTRA, MKDELTA, MKNAOMI, MKSEARCH (MK being understood to stand for Mind Kontrol), BLUEBIRD, ARTICHOKE and CHATTER. The principal aim of these and associated programs was the development of a reliable "programmable" assassin. Secondary aims were the development of a method of citizen control [based on Walter Bowart's Operation Mind Control (Fontana Books, London 1979)]."

"20. Marks, THE SEARCH FOR "THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE", 60-61. A folk etymology has it that the "MK" of MKULTRA stands for "Mind Kontrol." According to Marks, TSS prefixed the cryptonyms of all its projects with these initials. "

The problem you have here is one that is common in conspiracy circles. Some things get declassified, like lists of project names, and the conspiracists construct entire elaborate projects based on the name without regards to what the actual project did. So in tinhat land "MkULTRA" is the government mind control project, they even labeled it as such just in case you didn't get it. This is what we are talking about and it didn't exist. Back around 1990 even tinhats began to conclude that the government wouldnt put "MK" in front of a project name if it really meant mind control. It was about then that other project names started to be considered the big-bad-project and MKULTRA started to fall out of favor.



Oh such Bull Crap!! if ever I've heard it, the MK ULTRA is very real indeed and the CIA has never stopped using mind control/brainwashing you talk as if you are an expert on the situation..ARE YOU IN THE CIA?????? didn't think so,....
and even if you were I would take what your saying with a grain of salt, because when has the CIA ever been upfront with the public, its a secret organization that operates by doing covert,black operations that the average and unaverage person never knows anything about accept what they want us to know.... so save your so called expertise for the garabage can!! its one thing to have an opinion but to sit up and say it isn't so is just a load of CRAP!!

you don't have to go far to see/ brain washing a form of mind control being applied at work by the government, just go to any miltary branch and get a good look at boot cramp!! mind control works and the government and CIA don't stop using something that works, they usually perfect it.

Go buy yourself a tinfoil hat you seem to need one badly it just might help charge your brain and help your thinking.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 9:38 AM

FLETCH2


I suspect I started to look into this before you were even born. I've watched while theory X becomes "the theory" and watched again as it fell out of favour to theory Y. It's a lot like watching people piece together bits and pieces of TV show's like Firefly or B5. They get a couple of pieces of real information and construct a huge complex "explanation" that links all the pieces. Thye end up investing so much in it that when new information comes along later they are too wedded to the concept to abandon it. They would rather maul and mutilate the information they have to make it fit than abandon it. That's why PN's grand universal "theory" has so many actors. He built up a picture of "the man" who is keeping him down and if something else happens to him that the theory doesnt explain he adds another branch to the "conspiracy" rather than just face the notion that he could be a screw up.

It's called "Magical thinking" it has the same basis as believing in fairies, goblins or a pantheon of warring gods. Most people come to the conclusion that there are uncontrolled events, some people can't do that, it makes them impotent, vulnerable to whims of nature and of life. These people look for an underlying mechanism that explains why things happen to them. Since random chance terrifies them they actually prefer to be the victim of copricious supernatural forces rather than live with the fear of randomness or their own failings. Once upon a time if your crops failed you might conclude that you upset some minor god. these days it's jewish conspiracies with black helicopters or little grey aliens from space. The nature of the "enemy" has changed but it's basic nature never does, it is always all powerful and if you are paranoid enough all powerful and willing to waste it's time messing with YOU. Makes you important you see? God may be peeing on you but at least he pays you attention.



So just for once Jenny, stop being PN's poodle and you know... actually think for yourself.


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Monday, March 20, 2006 10:02 AM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
I suspect I started to look into this before you were even born. I've watched while theory X becomes "the theory" and watched again as it fell out of favour to theory Y. It's a lot like watching people piece together bits and pieces of TV show's like Firefly or B5. They get a couple of pieces of real information and construct a huge complex "explanation" that links all the pieces. Thye end up investing so much in it that when new information comes along later they are too wedded to the concept to abandon it. They would rather maul and mutilate the information they have to make it fit than abandon it. That's why PN's grand universal "theory" has so many actors. He built up a picture of "the man" who is keeping him down and if something else happens to him that the theory doesnt explain he adds another branch to the "conspiracy" rather than just face the notion that he could be a screw up.

It's called "Magical thinking" it has the same basis as believing in fairies, goblins or a pantheon of warring gods. Most people come to the conclusion that there are uncontrolled events, some people can't do that, it makes them impotent, vulnerable to whims of nature and of life. These people look for an underlying mechanism that explains why things happen to them. Since random chance terrifies them they actually prefer to be the victim of copricious supernatural forces rather than live with the fear of randomness or their own failings. Once upon a time if your crops failed you might conclude that you upset some minor god. these days it's jewish conspiracies with black helicopters or little grey aliens from space. The nature of the "enemy" has changed but it's basic nature never does, it is always all powerful and if you are paranoid enough all powerful and willing to waste it's time messing with YOU. Makes you important you see? God may be peeing on you but at least he pays you attention.



So just for once Jenny, stop being PN's poodle.



Good grief Charlie Brown

nobody is saying you have to take everything PN says at face value, but alot of the stuff he post have vality and merit to it. maybe your the one with the problem, maybe you aren't so called paranoid enough...nor do I need a philosphical rant from you!! and please before you try to talk as an expert on a subject, espeically since your not in the CIA...you might want to do a little more research before you dismiss it out of hand believe me or NOT..but mind control by the CIA is very, very real


LOL!! as for thinking for myself I'm sure thats what I'm doing, PN makes some valid points some of which I agree with and when posters like you come in to try and dis credit whats being said your damn skippy I'm going speak out!!



PJ

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Monday, March 20, 2006 2:09 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:
I'm so tired of people saying that Bush and Co are incompetent they are not INCOMPETENT!!


As there is a civil war in Iraq, and as several of the fundraising crowd have been indicted. I can't imagine they *intended* for this to happen. I think this is a very familiar story: Intellectuals with big ideas go and play in the real world and get in way over their heads.

Here's a prime example: Initially, the UAE invested in our Iraq operation. It's logical to assume, that since they are about as businesslike as the Ferengi, that there was an exchange, which I hubly suggest was control of the Iraqi ports. There must've been a catch in this deal whereby they could have ours if we failed, but Bush couldn't even deliver that. Now there's a chance our forces will get kicked out of Dubai, this is a mess.

Another example. They cannot have intended for the Abu Ghraib photos to leak. In fact, torture wasn't even in the original plan, it was suggested to them halfway through by other intellectuals like Alan Dershowitz. They made up a policy, enacted it, and everyone found out and blamed them. Well, this I feel certain did *not* go according to plan. I think it was a desperate move to get intelligence to help win the war, once they realized how much in over their heads they were.

Anotehr example, apparantly, we've been beating on Iran's door for 2 years saying "help us in Iraq!" and we wouldn't have to do that if everything went according to plan, the PNAC plan, and the plan of Richard Perle who told Dick Cheney that it would cost $60B because he actually believed that's what it would cost.

Another screw up: They actually *did* think there were WMDs to be found. I'm absolutely without a soubt certain of this. Here's my very simple logic: If they were making it up, they would've thought of something better. A doctrine of pre-emptive war based on the idea that Iraq has what are basically the same weapons as many of its neighbors is truly ludicrous. The ideal fictional story would have been that we were attacked not by Al Qaeda, but by the terrorists that Saddam Hussein had been funding and training to attempt to kick jews out of the West Bank and Gaza. There is of course, no evidence this is the case, and everyone is pretty sure that it isn't the case, but building this case would have been a hell of a lot stronger then the WMD argument. In fact, just about anything would have been stronger then the WMD argument. They went with it because they honestly believed it was true.

The fact is, these guys are not the brilliant Masterminds, they're not Dr. No, they're Pinky and the Brain meets Dortmunder.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 2:21 PM

DREAMTROVE


Amd Pirate Jenny, again:

Quote:
Corportations represent their own interest not mines or the welfare of the people.


You really miss the point.

Corporations ARE we the people.

We the people are assembled into corporations.

The corporations is us, we is the corporations.

We, the people, are the special interests.

Virtually everyone in this forum is in some way or other connected with a corporation. I wouldn't be astoundingly surprised if a few people here had been corporate exuctives. I was once, I'm not now, but a corporation still pays my bills daily.

In fact, corporations make the medicines that heal me when I'm sick, they make the books and websites on which I learn, they make this internet possible, the car I drive and the fuel to drive it with.

Government, as far as I can tell, with the exception of a few things such as the dept. of defense, and its offshoots the VA, the NSF and NASA, doesn't do jack.

Who else am I to owe allegiance to? Non-profit organizations? Religious institutions? Corporations make us what we are.

Now and then, one or two go awry, get overzealous, but honestly, even Halliburton or Enron, are really okay, and generally speaking, providers of good and services for the people.

The corporations, the Big Corporations, are still, as they have always been, the good guys.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 4:47 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Amd Pirate Jenny, again:

Quote:
Corportations represent their own interest not mines or the welfare of the people.


You really miss the point.

Corporations ARE we the people.

We the people are assembled into corporations.

The corporations is us, we is the corporations.

We, the people, are the special interests.

Virtually everyone in this forum is in some way or other connected with a corporation. I wouldn't be astoundingly surprised if a few people here had been corporate exuctives. I was once, I'm not now, but a corporation still pays my bills daily.

In fact, corporations make the medicines that heal me when I'm sick, they make the books and websites on which I learn, they make this internet possible, the car I drive and the fuel to drive it with.

Government, as far as I can tell, with the exception of a few things such as the dept. of defense, and its offshoots the VA, the NSF and NASA, doesn't do jack.

Who else am I to owe allegiance to? Non-profit organizations? Religious institutions? Corporations make us what we are.

Now and then, one or two go awry, get overzealous, but honestly, even Halliburton or Enron, are really okay, and generally speaking, providers of good and services for the people.

The corporations, the Big Corporations, are still, as they have always been, the good guys.


NOOOOOOOO Dreamtrove, thats just it!! I didn't miss your point, actually I laughed at your point, because its just not so the whole statement is ridiculous..

we the people are not Corporations, Corporations have their own intrest to look after and protect, not ours we the people. When Corporations have a vested intrested in (we the people) and have a vested intrest in protecting us and looking after (we the peoples) best intrest.

While indivduals or a group of individuals might run a corporation, a corporation is its own enity. Corporations are suppose to be regulated by the government that represents WE THE PEOPLE, so that the medicine you buy is safe for you to take, or that food that you consume is safe for you to eat, but when the Corporations start telling the government what to do ,or the Corps start influencing the laws to benifit them at the expense of we the people and when Corporations move to other countries because they don't want to pay health insurance or higher wages, thus taking away jobs, and not paying taxes although they are profiting from the people in this country, thats when Corporations are no longer the good guys and thats what is happening now so again When Corporations have a vested intrested in we the people and have a vested intrest in protecting us and looking after we the peoples best intrest. I might agree with you but until that day comes I'll be ROTFLMAO at your statment

once again

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Monday, March 20, 2006 4:58 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
I'm so tired of people saying that Bush and Co are incompetent they are not INCOMPETENT!!


As there is a civil war in Iraq, and as several of the fundraising crowd have been indicted. I can't imagine they *intended* for this to happen. I think this is a very familiar story: Intellectuals with big ideas go and play in the real world and get in way over their heads.

Here's a prime example: Initially, the UAE invested in our Iraq operation. It's logical to assume, that since they are about as businesslike as the Ferengi, that there was an exchange, which I hubly suggest was control of the Iraqi ports. There must've been a catch in this deal whereby they could have ours if we failed, but Bush couldn't even deliver that. Now there's a chance our forces will get kicked out of Dubai, this is a mess.

Another example. They cannot have intended for the Abu Ghraib photos to leak. In fact, torture wasn't even in the original plan, it was suggested to them halfway through by other intellectuals like Alan Dershowitz. They made up a policy, enacted it, and everyone found out and blamed them. Well, this I feel certain did *not* go according to plan. I think it was a desperate move to get intelligence to help win the war, once they realized how much in over their heads they were.

Anotehr example, apparantly, we've been beating on Iran's door for 2 years saying "help us in Iraq!" and we wouldn't have to do that if everything went according to plan, the PNAC plan, and the plan of Richard Perle who told Dick Cheney that it would cost $60B because he actually believed that's what it would cost.

Another screw up: They actually *did* think there were WMDs to be found. I'm absolutely without a soubt certain of this. Here's my very simple logic: If they were making it up, they would've thought of something better. A doctrine of pre-emptive war based on the idea that Iraq has what are basically the same weapons as many of its neighbors is truly ludicrous. The ideal fictional story would have been that we were attacked not by Al Qaeda, but by the terrorists that Saddam Hussein had been funding and training to attempt to kick jews out of the West Bank and Gaza. There is of course, no evidence this is the case, and everyone is pretty sure that it isn't the case, but building this case would have been a hell of a lot stronger then the WMD argument. In fact, just about anything would have been stronger then the WMD argument. They went with it because they honestly believed it was true.

The fact is, these guys are not the brilliant Masterminds, they're not Dr. No, they're Pinky and the Brain meets Dortmunder.


What is it with you DREAMTROVE ..why do you have this insane need to make excuses for the Bush administration, its sick, do you need to have something to believe in so bad that you just can't help yourself. I'm assuming your a grown up person, I don't understand this constant need to make excuses for these crimnals, its not incomptence it really isn't how many insidents, above and beyond the many thats already happened is it going to take before you get it that its not incomptence, its deliberate, no one is that incomptent and the sooner you face up to that the sooner you can cure yourself of this addiction. I understand that some people have a great need, desire to believe in someone or something, but why for the love of all things good and beautiful why have you placed your need on the Bush administration? its woefully miss placed, why can't you see that? but its to the point where its like a woman who is being abused by her lover, and she keeps going back for more keeps making excuses even though she knows whats awaiting her. do yourself a favor stop making excuses get some help!! let the truth set you free, face the facts at the very least stop making excuses.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 5:28 PM

DREAMTROVE


Jenny,

The Bush Admin, not my favorite by a very long stretch, is a group of people who are in way over their heads. They may be corrupt, and crooked, and also blindly ideological, they might even be pinko neofascists. But they're also incompetent.

I believe deeply in their incompetence, because I was watching and I watched it unfold. Sure, they lie endlessly, to cover up for the fact that they don't know what they're doing. The president of the United States doesn't even know how to read! He's a fried out coke head, a morally bankrupt individual who doesn't know his ass from a whole in the ground. He bankrupted his own company, couldn't complete his military service because he couldn't pass a drug test, could barely pass his own classes and took 22 months to complete a six week flight training course. And you are telling me this guy is competent? If it weren't for his daddy lining it up for him, George W. Bush would probably be the homeless guy on the corner hold up a sign saying the End is Nigh.

I think an even moderate glimpse of not only Bush's life, but Cheney's as well, shows us that these guys are twice the fool needed to do something like this.

I already understand the whole situation very well. We're a free society, made up of corporations. You can start your own, join an existing one, or buy shares in one, and gain an interest. If they're wrong, you can oppose them in a court of law.

Bush is just a bad republican, with a lot of corrupt corporates steal money from the public till and lead by a bunch of pseudo-socialist ideologues to spend that money on a hairbrained scheme, and they're doing it all very badly.

I think honestly, they're nowhere near where they wanted to be when they started, and there's a decent chance a fair number of folks are going to prison when this is all said and done. I think it's a mistake to assume "Oh they'll just get away with it" The govt can and does sue companies for large amounts of money for their misconduct, and, though the Bush-Clinton crowd are loathe to think this, some day, someone else will be president, and they're beloved allies will face the same punishment they doled out to the tobacco companies, and be forced to pay it all back.

My role in this, is to help elect a better republican, who will be more pro-business, fight for more conservative values, and operate in a more overall republican manner and help repair the image of the US overseas. If I fail in that, and Bush and co stay in control of the GOP forever, ultimately, I might become a democrat. But honestly, I don't think we're there yet. At the moment I think the Bush-Clinton crowd has more control over the Democrats then they do over the Republicans, and I can kick them out.

Here's what I don't get. I know what I'm doing about it. What are you doing?





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Monday, March 20, 2006 5:58 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:
Jenny,

The Bush Admin, not my favorite by a very long stretch, is a group of people who are in way over their heads. They may be corrupt, and crooked, and also blindly ideological, they might even be pinko neofascists. But they're also incompetent


I know you have issues with the Bush administration, as any decent person would and should, but I don't see incomptence, nor do I really see Bush and co trying to cover it up they are just that arrogant. I've looked at the Project for a new American century and so far everything is fitting right in with the plan.

Quote:
I believe deeply in their incompetence, because I was watching and I watched it unfold. Sure, they lie endlessly, to cover up for the fact that they don't know what they're doing. The president of the United States doesn't even know how to read! He's a fried out coke head, a morally bankrupt individual who doesn't know his ass from a whole in the ground. He bankrupted his own company, couldn't complete his military service because he couldn't pass a drug test, could barely pass his own classes and took 22 months to complete a six week flight training course. And you are telling me this guy is competent? If it weren't for his daddy lining it up for him, George W. Bush would probably be the homeless guy on the corner hold up a sign saying the End is Nigh.



I truly do not see incomptence on Bush and Co's part, I see deliberate actions, you talk about abu Ghrib and the pictures getting out, the pictures getting out to the public wasn't planned but the torture was, those pictures getting out to the public does not make the toture incompetence.

language is a very powerful thing, when you say that deliberate actions are incomptence, that is making excuses, excuses for deliberate planned actions.

Karl Rove outting an under cover operative, and committing treason to try and discreit Joe Wilson , was not incomptence it was deliberate and done for that reason, I could go on and on and on, Giving Halliburton War contracts so that they could bilk the tax payers for all we're worth, was not incomptence, it was deliberate and was planned..Going to war with Iraq was not incomptence it was planned years before and it was deliberate.

so do you see my dilema when you use the words incomptence when describing the Bush administration, its time to call it like it is. and it isn't incomptence.

I agree with you I think most people would that Bush jr., is an idiot, a coked out alcoholic fool, I look at George Bush more as a puppet, and if the man had been raised to have a soul, I might even feel sorry for him, maybe once upon a time he did, but its obvious he can't feel things like most normal people, but he is only one person and its not just him alone thats running the show, he's just a figure head, just as Hitler is the figure head of the third Reich, but Hitler alone could never have done the things that happened in Nazi Germany.(i'm not saying Bush Jr is Hilter I'm just giving an example)

I just don't think you and many others want to see the true ugliness, and thats why you say things like Bush and Co are incomptent.



Quote:
My role in this, is to help elect a better republican, who will be more pro-business, fight for more conservative values, and operate in a more overall republican manner and help repair the image of the US overseas. If I fail in that, and Bush and co stay in control of the GOP forever, ultimately, I might become a democrat. But honestly, I don't think we're there yet. At the moment I think the Bush-Clinton crowd has more control over the Democrats then they do over the Republicans, and I can kick them out.

Here's what I don't get. I know what I'm doing about it. What are you doing?


I personally have no faith in either party be it Democrate or Republican, but I suppose there is still some hope!!, I'd like to believe that that there is still hope, without living in a bubble.

We are living in some serious times, more serious then I think the average person realize. where in a decline, espeically economically, which is my biggest concern, and the quality of living standards, and we have a government that doesn't give a damn is actually working to make the delcine happen.

to answer your question about what I'm doing, the answer is I'm not doing anything, there isn't anything to do so long as we have that black box voting system

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Monday, March 20, 2006 6:44 PM

DREAMTROVE


The PNAC plan really called for them to have Iraq and Afghanistan by now and to be working on Iran and Syria. In reality we don't control either Iraq or Afghanistan and we have totally destroyed our credibility. This is not "according to plan" it's not even in the same county as the plan.

The Halliburton war contracts are really about maintaining control of the project, not about making money. Halliburton makes far more from its domestic projects like the Virginia Truckway, which it can carry out with no risk to itself. I wouldn't be surprised if they got some New Orleans contract as well. I think that if he wanted to just funnel money to Halliburton he could do it much easier without a war. There's an endless amount of work which needs doing here at home.

So I have to think that war was the goal, and Halliburton was enrolled to ensure that things went according to plan, which they haven't anyway.

Anyway, I'm not covering for him, just looking at the facts and telling you what I see. I know what they're master plan was, I was a regular visitor to the PNAC website long before 9.11 hit. And I was more or less on their side. But when it became clear that this was going to be a one sided war, and when Bush passed the patriot act to give himself emergency powers, I became suspicious. It's been a downhill slide from there. But I know the plan, and I see the results, and I still say I think they're more incompetent than anything else.

Even if you look past Bush and Past Cheney to Wolfowitz, Perle and co, these guys aren't Einstein. The smartest one among them is probably Bill Kristol, and I think even he is beginning to have his doubts that the plan is even doable. Fukuyama has already thrown in the towel and said basically this whole thing's a failure, neoconservatism is a failure. So, no, they're not happy with the results.

The Valerie Plame scandal, I agree, was an act of treason. Cheney did it to prevent Plame/Wilson from doing her job, which was to organize WMD intelligence gathering projects, because in her role, she was proving him wrong. At this point, I agree, Cheney knew he was wrong about WMD, and he destroyed Plame in an attempt to cover it up. Since the only net beneficiary of that is Al Qaeda and the enemies of the united states, something which Cheney must have known, it was a deliberate act of treason.

But that's just part of the endless f^&kup. He did it to cover his other screw ups. It's been one joyride down the drain.

I disagree about the voting system. I think that any group of organized voters can count their own votes, you can petition to remove voting machines, or you can have all of your people use absentee ballots or write ins. I guess in short I think this is a cop out. You can still organize.

I have hope for both parties. I think the democrats need to get behind their strong leaders like Feingold and Boxer, and stop playing this me too game that Hillary/Kerry et al do, and the GOP needs to cast of this fungus of neoconservatism, and return to what it used to be.


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Monday, March 20, 2006 9:07 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
The PNAC plan really called for them to have Iraq and Afghanistan by now and to be working on Iran and Syria. In reality we don't control either Iraq or Afghanistan and we have totally destroyed our credibility. This is not "according to plan" it's not even in the same county as the plan.

The Halliburton war contracts are really about maintaining control of the project, not about making money. Halliburton makes far more from its domestic projects like the Virginia Truckway, which it can carry out with no risk to itself. I wouldn't be surprised if they got some New Orleans contract as well. I think that if he wanted to just funnel money to Halliburton he could do it much easier without a war. There's an endless amount of work which needs doing here at home.

So I have to think that war was the goal, and Halliburton was enrolled to ensure that things went according to plan, which they haven't anyway.

Anyway, I'm not covering for him, just looking at the facts and telling you what I see. I know what they're master plan was, I was a regular visitor to the PNAC website long before 9.11 hit. And I was more or less on their side. But when it became clear that this was going to be a one sided war, and when Bush passed the patriot act to give himself emergency powers, I became suspicious. It's been a downhill slide from there. But I know the plan, and I see the results, and I still say I think they're more incompetent than anything else.

Even if you look past Bush and Past Cheney to Wolfowitz, Perle and co, these guys aren't Einstein. The smartest one among them is probably Bill Kristol, and I think even he is beginning to have his doubts that the plan is even doable. Fukuyama has already thrown in the towel and said basically this whole thing's a failure, neoconservatism is a failure. So, no, they're not happy with the results.

The Valerie Plame scandal, I agree, was an act of treason. Cheney did it to prevent Plame/Wilson from doing her job, which was to organize WMD intelligence gathering projects, because in her role, she was proving him wrong. At this point, I agree, Cheney knew he was wrong about WMD, and he destroyed Plame in an attempt to cover it up. Since the only net beneficiary of that is Al Qaeda and the enemies of the united states, something which Cheney must have known, it was a deliberate act of treason.

But that's just part of the endless f^&kup. He did it to cover his other screw ups. It's been one joyride down the drain.

I disagree about the voting system. I think that any group of organized voters can count their own votes, you can petition to remove voting machines, or you can have all of your people use absentee ballots or write ins. I guess in short I think this is a cop out. You can still organize.

I have hope for both parties. I think the democrats need to get behind their strong leaders like Feingold and Boxer, and stop playing this me too game that Hillary/Kerry et al do, and the GOP needs to cast of this fungus of neoconservatism, and return to what it used to be.



WOW the excuses just keep coming!!

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:51 AM

DREAMTROVE


Jenny,

Some hints:

1. Stop treating the world like it's your enemy. This strategy seldom gets any allies.

2. Nothing says that people can't be incompetent and corrupt and ideologues at the same time.

3. Stop making excuses yourself for why it won't help, and take action.


"All that is neccessary for evil to flourish is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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