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Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
I consider myself an American Patriot. I love this country, and the people living here. But I am not fond of the government, and consider myself apolitical, because I think most politicians are crooked liars.

I don't believe most conspiracy theories. But I acknowledge that some have proven to be true.

All I want are answers to these questions...

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Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
1) If jet fuel burns at about 1800 degrees F, and steel melts at about 2700 degrees F, why did the Twin Towers collapse?


2) Why did 7 World Trade Center collapse as effficiently as the Twin Towers, as if by demolition, without even being hit by a jet?


3) If the black boxes of the jets didn't survive the explosion, why did the passport of one of the supposed terrorists survive?

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Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
4) Why are some of the supposed terrorists of the hijackings still alive and well?

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Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
5) Why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been cought?

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Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
6) In the video presented to the public where Osama admits his part in the attack, why is he wearing a ring and a watch, which is against Islamic rule?

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5) Why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been cought?

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Originally posted by Sassalicious:

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5) Why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been caught?

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He hasn't been caught because he's hiding...

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Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
1) If jet fuel burns at about 1800 degrees F, and steel melts at about 2700 degrees F, why did the Twin Towers collapse?

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2) Why did 7 World Trade Center collapse as effficiently as the Twin Towers, as if by demolition, without even being hit by a jet?

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3) If the black boxes of the jets didn't survive the explosion, why did the passport of one of the supposed terrorists survive?

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4) Why are some of the supposed terrorists of the hijackings still alive and well?

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5) Why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been cought?

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6) In the video presented to the public where Osama admits his part in the attack, why is he wearing a ring and a watch, which is against Islamic rule?

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So I can get back to my life of playing video games, ignoring the daily news, and eating McDonalds. Or not.

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Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
2) Why did 7 World Trade Center collapse as effficiently as the Twin Towers, as if by demolition, without even being hit by a jet?

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Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
3) If the black boxes of the jets didn't survive the explosion, why did the passport of one of the supposed terrorists survive?

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Originally posted by citizen:
Well you *CAN* get a mobile signal on a plane. I have on a trip to Germany when I forgot to turn my phone off. Many planes also have phones on board.

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Originally posted by GreenFaerie:

1) If jet fuel burns at about 1800 degrees F, and steel melts at about 2700 degrees F, why did the Twin Towers collapse?

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"I designed it for a 707 to hit it," Lee Robertson, the project's structural engineer said. The Boeing 707 has a fuel capacity of more than 23,000 gallons, comparable to the 767's 23,980-gallon fuel capacity. Another architect of the WTC, Aaron Swirski, lives in Israel and spoke to Jerusalem Post Radio after the attack: "It was designed around that eventuality to survive this kind of attack," he said. Hyman Brown, a University of Colorado civil engineering professor and the World Trade Center's construction manager, watched in confusion as the towers came down. "It was over-designed to withstand almost anything including hurricanes, high winds, bombings and an airplane hitting it," he said. In the basements of the collapsed towers, where the 47 central support columns connected with the bedrock, hot spots of "literally molten steel" were discovered more than a month after the collapse. Such persistent and intense residual heat, 70 feet below the surface, could explain how these crucial structural supports failed. Peter Tully, president of Tully Construction of Flushing, New York, told AFP that he saw pools of "literally molten steel" at the World Trade Center. Tully was contracted on September 11 to remove the debris from the site. Tully called Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Phoenix, Maryland, for consultation about removing the debris. CDI calls itself "the innovator and global leader in the controlled demolition and implosion of structures." Loizeaux, who cleaned up the bombed Federal Building in Oklahoma City, arrived on the WTC site two days later and wrote the clean-up plan for the entire operation. AFP asked Loizeaux about the report of molten steel on the site. "Yes," he said, "hot spots of molten steel in the basements." These incredibly hot areas were found "at the bottoms of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven [basement] levels," Loizeaux said. The molten steel was found "three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed," Loizeaux said. He said molten steel was also found at 7 WTC, which collapsed mysteriously in the late afternoon. Construction steel has an extremely high melting point of about 2,800° Fahrenheit (1535° Celsius). Loizeaux told AFP that the steel-melting fires were fueled by "paper, carpet and other combustibles. Five days after the collapse, on September 16, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) used an Airborne Visible/Infrared Imaging Spectrometer (AVIRIS) to locate and measure the site's hot spots. Dozens of hot spots were mapped, the hottest being in the east corner of the South Tower where a temperature of 1377° F (747° C) was recorded. This is, however, less than half as hot at the molten steel in the basement. The foundations of the twin towers were 70 feet deep. At that level, 47 huge box columns, connected to the bedrock, supported the entire gravity load of the structures. The steel walls of these lower box columns were 4 inches thick. Videos of the North Tower collapse show its communication mast falling first, indicating that the central support columns must have failed at the very beginning of the collapse. Loizeaux told AFP, "Everything went simultaneously."
Loizeaux said, "If I were to bring the towers down, I would put explosives in the basement to get the weight of the building to help collapse the structure."
-Christopher Bollyn, American Free Press, "Seismic Evidence Points to Underground Explosions Causing WTC Collapse," August 28, 2002
www.serendipity.li/wot/bollyn2.htm
www.americanfreepress.net

"It's easy to imagine an infinite number of situations where the government might legitimately give out false information. It's an unfortunate reality that the issuance of incomplete information and even misinformation by government may sometimes be perceived as necessary to protect vital interests."
—US Solicitor-General Theodore "Ted" Olson, in Jennifer K. Harbury vs. United States, at the US Supreme Court, on 17 March 2002 (his estranged 3rd wife wife Barabara Olson, attoney at law and CNN talkinghead disappeared on September 11, 2001, allegedly on American Airlines Flight 77 that never hit the Pentagon)

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2) Why did 7 World Trade Center collapse as effficiently as the Twin Towers, as if by demolition, without even being hit by a jet?

WTC 7 CIA HQ was bombed on 9/11/2001 in a controlled demolition with 100s of preinstalled explosives per orders of Bush White House and Mafia Mayor Giuliani

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"I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is PULL IT.' And they made that decision to PULL and we watched the building collapse."
-Larry Silverstein, PBS TV, "America Rebuilds"
www.pbs.org/americarebuilds

PULL.
to tear down, demolish, or overthrow.
-Webster's New World Dictionary

"The flashlight led us into Borders bookstore, up an escalator, and out to Church Street. The explosions were going off everywhere. I was convinced that there were bombs planted all over the place and someone was sitting at a control panel pushing detonator buttons. I was afraid to go down Church Street towards Broadway, but I had to do it. I ended up on Vesey Street. There was another explosion. And another. I didn't know which way to run."
-Teresa Veliz, WTC Survivor
www.reopen911.org/Tarpley_ch_6.pdf

"Floor by floor it started popping out."
"It was if they had detonators and they planned to take down a building."
-NY Fire Dept Survivors, Nadet Bros video

"Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building."
-Captain Karin Deshore E.M.S., WTC Survivor

"It was a frigging noise. At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear "Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop" That's exactly what -- because I thought it was that. When I heard that frigging noise, that's when I saw the building coming down."
-Daniel Rivera, Paramedic E.M.S., WTC Survivor

"And then all of a sudden it started like... it sounded like gunfire... you know, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang and then all of a sudden three big explosions."
-WTC Survivor

"The National Law Enforcement and Security Institute will be holding a conference called 'Homeland Security: America's Leadership Challenge' in Chicago on 6 September 2002. The star speaker is Rudolph Giuliani. One of the other speakers is C I A man John Fulton. On the morning of September 11th 2001, Mr. Fulton and his team at the C I A were running a pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building.' NLSI website confesses: 'America's Mayor' Rudy Giuliani will lead the day with his presentation 'Leadership in Difficult Times'. John Fulton's 25 years in the intelligence community has contributed to his recognition as an expert in risk and threat response analysis, scenario gaming, and strategic planning. He is on staff for the Central Intelligence Agency, currently serving as Chief of the Strategic War Gaming Division of the National Reconnaissance Office, and as a member of U S Joint Forces Command's Project Alpha - a prestigious "think tank" for advanced concepts related to such issues as homeland security. He formerly served as the mission director for our nation's satellite imagery program as well as replacing Army Astronaut Same Gemar as the Director of the National Security Space Master Plan for the U S Department of Defense and Intelligence Space Communities under the auspices of the Deputy UnderSecretary of Defense (Space). His counter-terrorism and homeland security responsibilities include advising the Director Central Intelligence Staff for Homeland Security, the U.S. Marshall's Office, and collaboration with the National Security Council. In the private sector Fulton has developed a number of patents related to positioning, 'smart GP S' applications, communications, and audio video technology. He oversees the development of public and personal safety applications of these capabilities through Safe star projects, and contributes to the strategic planning and conceptual design of the SafeSTAR Homeland Security Command Center."
-National Law Enforcement and Security Institute

"Mayor Giuliani - a former federal prosecutor who won notice for 'pursuing' the Mafia - had relatives linked to organized crime, including a mobbed up cousin who was gunned down by F B I agents in 1977. Lewis D'Avanzo, a son of the mayor's uncle and a guest at Giuliani's first wedding in 1968, was a 'ruthless and widely feared mob associate' who headed a massive stolen car ring, according to FBI documents and interviews detailed in Rudy, An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani, by Village Voice senior editor Wayne Barrett. The book sketches a largely unflattering portrait of the clan, depicting his father, Harold, as a hothead and the 'muscle' behind a brother in law's loan sharking operation, run out of a Brooklyn bar. Along with cracking heads, it says the mayor's father served time in state prison for a stickup, rarely held an on the books job and once was a gunman in a mob shootout in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn. Giuliani's cousin Lewis D'Avanzo was known as 'Steve the Blond' and listed as armed and dangerous in FBI bulletins. His criminal record included a 10 year federal sentence for the armed hijacking of a truck loaded with $240,000 worth of mercury. He was suspected of taking part in several murders. D'Avanzo was gunned down by the FBI in October 1977, when he tried to run down an agent after being stopped on a warrant that accused him and two associates of transporting 100 stolen luxury cars. A friend of D'Avanzo describes a 1962 shootout pitting a local mobster against the mayor's father and Leo D'Avanzo, Lewis D'Avanzo's father. The book says Leo was later sanctioned by mob bosses for shooting at a Mafia member. Leo D'Avanzo, who was known in family circles as a black sheep, ran loansharking and gambling operations out of a Brooklyn bar where Giuliani's father worked as a bartender. In his role as debt collector, his father 'broke legs, smashed kneecaps, crunched noses.' Joan Ellen D'Avanzo, a cousin who at one time lived with Giuliani when he was a youngster, became a drug addict who was beaten to death in 1973 at age 34. Several family members said she was murdered."
-Michael R. Blood, New York Daily News, "Rudy's Kin Tied to Mob", July 6, 2000

"Did the U.S. government really pay the Mafia protection money during World War II? At the beginning of WWII, America wasn't yet fighting, but her support for the Allies was clear. The 1941 Lend-Lease Act enabled FDR to ship weapons and essential materials to England. But were U.S. harbors being watched? In 1942, fire broke out on The Normandie, a luxury liner turned troop carrier. Was it Nazi sabotage? Decades later, Lucky Luciano claimed the Mafia had burnt The Normandie, and in the aftermath struck a protection deal with the government to prevent further 'Nazi sabotage'. An anonymous interviewee supports Lucky Luciano's story that the mob torched the Normandie. An archival interview with J. Edgar Hoover offers one take on this extraordinary assertion. Modern scholars examine the evidence of wartime ties between the Mob and the government. Officially, the cause was negligence. Unofficially, the authorities suspected it was the act of Nazi saboteurs. But when the ocean liner Normandie - recently converted to a troop carrier - caught fire in New York Harbor, the government had to take steps to prevent such setbacks in the future. For decades, rumors have persisted that one of the steps they took was to 'hire' the Mafia to make sure no additional 'accidents' happened. Of course, that looks suspiciously like a famously successful Mafia business model, and there are some who believe that the Normandie fire was actually a shakedown. In fact, Lucky Luciano is said to have boasted as much. Could this really be true? Did the government enlist help from the least likely of sources - and under duress - from an underground enemy? with testimony from military scholars, Mafia experts and an intriguing anonymous eyewitness to the Normandie fire, DEAD MEN'S SECRETS explores one of the most intriguing myths of America during WWII."
—HistoryChannel.com, "Dead Men's Secrets: America and the Mob: Wartime Friends", Item Number: AAE-43942

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3) If the black boxes of the jets didn't survive the explosion, why did the passport of one of the supposed terrorists survive?

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4) Why are some of the supposed terrorists of the hijackings still alive and well?

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"Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well. The identities of four of the 19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt. Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September. His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world."
—BBC, "Hijack 'suspects' alive and well," 23 September, 2001
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

"Satam al Suqami, Wail and Waleed al Shehri - Both ALIVE, Abdul Aziz al Omari - ALIVE, Fayez Banihammad, Ahmed al Ghamdi, Hamza al Ghamdi, Mohand al Shehri - ALIVE, Saeed al Ghamdi - ALIVE, Ahmad al Haznawi, Ahmed al Nami - ALIVE, Majed Moqed, and Salem al Hazmi - ALIVE. Mohamed Atta - ALIVE according to his father. In September 2002, FBI Director Robert Mueller told CNN twice that there is 'no legal proof to prove the identities of the suicidal hijackers.' How can the 9/11 Commission be taken seriously when they refer to 9/11 'hijackers' who are still alive?"
—WhatReallyHappened.com, "At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive"
www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html

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5) Why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been cought?

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"I don't care where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care."
-George Bush Jr, business partner of Salem Bin Laden, USAma's brother, after rescuing 25 members of Bin Laden family living in USA on 9/11/2001, to prevent FBI interrogation, and escorting them out of USA while all other US flights were cancelled under martial law

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2005/12/23/bin-laden-niece-ins
ide.JPG
Sleazy prostitute, er, sleazy lawyer Waah Dufour Bin Laden, a US citizen - Cathy O'Brien testified that she eyewitnessed pedophile Saudi royals gangrape their own daughters, just like the pedophile Bushes gangrape other people's daughters. Gangsters routinely send their kids to law school to learn advanced methods of stealing other people's money
www.trance-formation.com

"I want to be accepted here, but I feel that everybody's judging me and rejecting me," said the California-born Dufour, a law graduate who lives in New York. "Come on, where's the American spirit? Accept me. I want to be embraced, because my values are like yours. And I'm here. I'm not hiding." Dufour, who adopted her mother's maiden name after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks that have been blamed on bin Laden, appears in several provocative photos in the magazine. Yeslam and Osama are among 54 children of the late Saudi construction magnate Mohammed bin Laden and his 22 wives. The extended family includes several hundred people.
www.usatoday.com/life/people/2005-12-23-bin-laden-niece_x.htm?POE=LIFI
SVA


Wetback Waah Dufour Bin Laden launders her CIA money in her Swiss bank
www.wizbangblog.com

"The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it. I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons. I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders' rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations."
—Usama bin Laden, CNN News, "Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks," September 17, 2001
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

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6) In the video presented to the public where Osama admits his part in the attack, why is he wearing a ring and a watch, which is against Islamic rule?

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VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Operation Northwoods - James Banford from ABC News reported on Pentagon's Operation Northwoods plot to perp domestic terrorism in USA to blame a foreign nation and "justify" invasion, declassified in 2000
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7209.php
www.BodyOfSecrets.com

"Towers that fell 'like a controlled demolition'. Planes that vanished then mysteriously reappeared, and crucial evidence that has been lost for ever. In the Pentagon, a top secret team drew up a plan to simultaneously send up two airliners painted and numbered exactly the same, one from a civil airport in America, the other from a secret military airbase nearby. The one from the airport would have military personnel on board who had checked in as ordinary passengers under false names. The one from the airbase would be an empty drone, a remote-controlled unmanned aircraft. Somewhere along their joint flight paths, the passenger-carrying plane would drop below radar height, and disappear, landing back at the airbase and unloading its occupants in secret. Meanwhile, the drone would have taken up the other plane's designated course. High over the island of Cuba, it would be exploded in mid-air after broadcasting an international distress call that it was under attack from enemy fighters. The world would be told that a plane load of blameless American holidaymakers had been deliberately shot down by Fidel Castro's Communists - and that the US had no choice but to declare war and topple his regime. This Top Secret 'agent provocateur' plan - code named Operation Northwoods and revealed in official archives - dates from 1962 when the Cold War was at its height and was declassified in 2000."
-Tony Rennell, London Daily Mail, "9/11 ON TRIAL -Towers that fell 'like a controlled demolition'. Planes that vanished then mysteriously reappeared, And crucial evidence that has been lost for ever. A new book raises bizarre yet deeply unsettling questions about the world's worst terror atrocity…" August 6, 2005
www.financialoutrage.org.uk/911_mainstream_media.htm

"Operation NORTHWOODS may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government. Operation Northwoods had called for nothing less than the launch of a secret campaign of terrorism within the United States in order to blame Castro and provoke a war with Cuba."
—James Bamford, ABC News, "Friendly Fire - U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba," May 1, 2001
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

"In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba. Code named Operation NORTHWOODS, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities. The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro. America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation." The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years. The Joint Chiefs at the time were headed by Eisenhower appointee Army Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitzer, who, with the signed plans in hand made a pitch to McNamara on March 13, 1962, recommending Operation Northwoods be run by the military. Whether the Joint Chiefs' plans were rejected by McNamara in the meeting is not clear. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer directly there was virtually no possibility of ever using overt force to take Cuba, Bamford reports. Within months, Lemnitzer would be denied another term as chairman and transferred to another job. Ironically, the documents came to light, says Bamford, in part because of the 1992 Oliver Stone film JFK, which examined the possibility of a conspiracy behind the assassination of President Kennedy. "The scary thing is none of this stuff comes out until 40 years after," says Bamford."
—David Ruppe, ABC News, "Friendly Fire - U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba," May 1, 2001
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

"We could blow up a drone (unmannded) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. The presense of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The US could follow with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existant crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation. We could develop a Communist Cuba terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Flordia cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. Use of MIG-type aircraft by US pilots could provide additional provocation. Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping, and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type palnes would be useful. An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the pilot of the transport were to announce that fact. Hijacking attampts against US civil air and surface craft should be encouraged. It is possible to create an incident which would demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civilian airliner from the United States. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be subsituted for the actual civil aircraft and the passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rondevous. From the rondevous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly to an auxiliary airfield at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. Meanwhile the drone aircraft will continue to fly the filed flight plan. The drone will be transmitting on the international distress frequency "MAY DAY" message stating it is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by the destruction of aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow IACO radio stations to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident. It is possible to create an incident that will make it appear that Communist Cuban MIGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack. On one such flight, a pre-briefed pilot would fly Tail-end Charlie. While near the Cuban island this pilot would broadcast that he had been jumped by MIGs and was going down. This pilot would then fly at extremely low altitude and land at a secure base, an Eglin auxiliary. The aircraft would be met by the proper people, quickly stored and given a new tail number. The pilot who performed the mission under an alias would resume his proper identity. The pilot and aircraft would then have disappeared. A submarine or small craft would distribute F-101 parts, parachute, etc. The pilots retuning to Homestead would have a true story as far as they knew. Search ships and aircraft could be dispatched and parts of aircraft found."
—Jewish Zionist General L.L. Lemnitzer, chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff at Pentagon, Memo to Secretary of War Robert McNamara - Subject: Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba - Operation NORTHWOODS, March 13, 1962 (declassifed 2000)
www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Jewish Fox TV's Lone Gunmen pilot episode - Broadcast in March 2001, re General LL Limnitzer's Operation Northwoods plot by Pentagon, CIA and Jewish Ike/LBJ White House to hijack a US airliner by remote control and crash it into the Jewish Rockefeller's World Trade Center, declassified in 2000
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/6758.php

"I don't trust government. And neither should our citizens."
—US Senator Larry Craig, United States Senate, Committee on the Judiciary, "DOJ Oversight: Terrorism and Other Topics", testimony by US Attorney General John Ashcroft re President George Bush Jr.'s Executive Orders to "legalize torture" of US citizens and refusal to release that memo (felony Contempt of Congress), CSPAN2, June 8, 2004

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
-George Bush Jr, CNN

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be."
—President Thomas Jefferson

"The President, Vice-President, and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."
—Constitution of the United States

"The Constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper!"
-George Bush Jr


USAma didn't pass the U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act without allowing Congress to read it that classified ALL crime as terrorism and ALL US citizens as terrorists and killed the US Constitution. USAma didn't order NORAD to stand down on 9/11. USAma didn't PULL WTC with 1,000s of preinstalled explosives. USAma didn't run security for WTC and cut power to install explosives but Marvin Bush did. USAma didn't run wargames of hijacking US airliners and crashing them into WTC on 9/11 but Dick Cheney and CIA did. USAma didn't write Operation NORTHWOODS but Pentagon and CIA did. USAma didn't declare war on Afghanistan and Iraq but Jr Bush did BEFORE 9/11. USAma didn't say he wanted to be dictator of USA but Jr Bush did...

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Bush Sued by RICO Act - 9/11 victims sue Bush Gang under RICO Act for perping domestic terrorism and mass murder on 9/11/2001. Stanley Hilton vs traitorous media whores Shaun Hannity and Alan Colmes for Jewish Australian porno king pimp daddy Rupert Murdock on Faux News. http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7209.php

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"The United States Capitol Police has made the entire tunnel system off limits to their staff because of the safety conditions as well as the lack of communication because phones and radios do not work in the tunnels. This should be a real concern to the Congress and Senate as all buildings on the complex can be entered through the steam tunnels. Realize that it is on a regular basis that we see people in the tunnels that we don't know why they are down there."
-United States Capitol Police, April 2006
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/piratenewsrss/message/207

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Originally posted by piratenews:
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die."
-Roy Batty, Bladerunner

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Originally posted by GreenFaerie:

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Kevin Smith: Well, you don't have to have them come out and say it. Look at their body of works. Look what they're doing. What did Joss Whedon's Serenity and Firefly series tell you? What are they trying to tell you through their craft?

Alex Jones: What does V For Vendetta say?

Kevin Smith: Even better. I just saw it last week. I left V For Vendetta walking on a cloud. I say, we're gonna win!

Alex Jones: Let me tell ya what's happening. I can't get into details. But major Hollywood people are being pressured Big Time to SHUT UP. If I could only tell you folks. I then confirmed from a prominent 9/11 leader, that one of the biggest musicians in the world, one of the most loved, is very close to going public. It's so close. And they're watching to see what happens with Charlie Sheen, who hit the barbed wire for us. But again, CNN wouldn't have Ed Asner on last night. They were gonna have him, then they cancelled him. They cancelled because they cannot deal with it.

-Infowars Radio, March 29, 2006
www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/asner_on_cnn.htm
www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=19100

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damn... one of my all time favorite movie quotes. PN, you'd get a lot more traction if you tried sounding sane in your posts.

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Originally posted by RolandReynolds:

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damn... one of my all time favorite movie quotes. PN, you'd get a lot more traction if you tried sounding sane in your posts.

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Agreed. But simply because the posts are antagonistic, empassioned, and inefficient in conveying their meaning, it doesn't mean the information isn't worth evaluating.

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Originally posted by RolandReynolds:
Agreed. But simply because the posts are antagonistic, empassioned, and inefficient in conveying their meaning, it doesn't mean the information isn't worth evaluating.

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Originally posted by RolandReynolds:
I'm talking about the facts that are embedded amidst the ranting and theorizing. Galileo's law of falling bodies, the eyewitness accounts, Larry Silverstein's statement, Lee Robertson's statement, the details of Operation Northwoods, the details of the Project for New American Century...

Bears consideration.

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SERGEANTX: There are definitely things going on that we should be worried about. Turning into a three ring circus doesn't help

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FREERADICAL42: And you can snuff it yourself if you dare to trample the graves of those killed that day.

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My mother is an American Airlines flight attendant, she has been for 35 years, and she knew people on board those flights. They died, just like you or me would have.

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Originally posted by freeradical42:

See, the easy way to find out what's a lot of crap and what isn't is this: ask yourself if it answers who, what, where, when, WHY, and how. The conspiracy theories about 9/11 never answer the "why" off that list.

I remind you that fire is hot, planes are gigantic constructions that weigh tens of tons and fly hundreds of miles per hour.

I don't know if anyone has ever seen a watermelon get shot with a rifle, but the WTC was essentially a watermelon; rigid outside, soft empty inside; the sheer impact force of the plane would be sufficient to weaken the structure. Then, take into account that all of the internal materials were burning, and the lovely fact that the steel in those buildings got weaker the more you went up, and the shoddy construction (my father used to work in them and was desperately afraid that they would collapse of their own accord, and got transferred out as soon as he could). They were bad buildings that got hit with big planes. It's pretty clear why they collapsed. All of this stuff about the fire not being hot enough- hah! my uncle was an emergency worker pulling things out of the wreckage. You know those FDNY fire suits that are supposed to withstand 2500 degree fires? They were pulling them out of the wreckage filled with the ashes of firemen.

None of you people, out there, discussing this, can say "I was there and I saw it happen," but you can rant and rave and accuse the government. I *know* people who were there, who saw it happen, I'm not just quoting "Illuminati Mason Conspiracy News Service." There were no bombs. There was no "empty robot plane." Everyone was caught off guard. Everyone nearly died. And you can snuff it yourself if you dare to trample the graves of those killed that day.

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Originally posted by MystrE:


No one doubts that people died horribly or are disputing this as a tragedy. Being thinking and feeling people were are all shocked and suffering great lose for the innocent people who died.

As a part of the grieving process its natural to feel anger to those who have hurt us or the ones we love. I think the reason for this discussion is to find the correct focus of our anger. Most of us are coming to realize that bombing some farmers one the other side of the world isn’t really helping relieve our anger and sorrow so we are looking into the truth of the matter, hence this discussion…again…

As for why? Why is answered completely when you look at the Who benefited from this event.

Think about it yourselves without looking at any facts/rumors/crapontheinternet, who stood to gain from this great loss? Who/what did gain after the event? Then add the why question to your answers for the real proof…

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Who stood to gain? No one gains from war.

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Originally posted by freeradical42:

Actually, the assertion that "empty robot planes" flew into buildings that had already been rigged with explosive charges suggests that in fact people who had been claimed to die, did not die. Those graves have real people attached to them too.

Who stood to gain? No one gains from war.

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9/11 Families File Suit Over Victims' Remains

Wednesday, August 17: A group of family members of those killed at the World Trade Center site on September 11, 2001, filed a federal lawsuit against the City of New York over its plans to leave the remains of the victims at Fresh Kills -- the former Staten Island dump where wreckage from the Ground Zero site, including human remains, was taken during cleanup efforts, the New York Times reported.

According to the lawsuit, the city promised that the remains would be separated from the rest of the debris and that a memorial park would be erected where the remains were finally buried. While the city made efforts to locate and identify any remaining body parts -- some of which were too small to even identify -- only 292 full bodies were recovered, the paper explained.

www.lowermanhattan.info/news/downtown_review/week_in_review_31703.asp

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"We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. The presense of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The US could follow with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existant crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation. We could develop a Communist Cuba terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Flordia cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. Use of MIG-type aircraft by US pilots could provide additional provocation. Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping, and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type palnes would be useful. An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the pilot of the transport were to announce that fact. Hijacking attampts against US civil air and surface craft should be encouraged. It is possible to create an incident which would demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civilian airliner from the United States. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be subsituted for the actual civil aircraft and the passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rondevous. From the rondevous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly to an auxiliary airfield at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. Meanwhile the drone aircraft will continue to fly the filed flight plan. The drone will be transmitting on the international distress frequency "MAY DAY" message stating it is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by the destruction of aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow IACO radio stations to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident. It is possible to create an incident that will make it appear that Communist Cuban MIGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack. On one such flight, a pre-briefed pilot would fly Tail-end Charlie. While near the Cuban island this pilot would broadcast that he had been jumped by MIGs and was going down. This pilot would then fly at extremely low altitude and land at a secure base, an Eglin auxiliary. The aircraft would be met by the proper people, quickly stored and given a new tail number. The pilot who performed the mission under an alias would resume his proper identity. The pilot and aircraft would then have disappeared. A submarine or small craft would distribute F-101 parts, parachute, etc. The pilots retuning to Homestead would have a true story as far as they knew. Search ships and aircraft could be dispatched and parts of aircraft found."
—Jewish Zionist General L.L. Lemnitzer, chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff at Pentagon, Memo to Secretary of War Robert McNamara - Subject: Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba - Operation NORTHWOODS, March 13, 1962 (declassifed 2000)
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

"In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba. Code named Operation NORTHWOODS, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities. The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro. America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation." The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years. The Joint Chiefs at the time were headed by Eisenhower appointee Army Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitzer, who, with the signed plans in hand made a pitch to McNamara on March 13, 1962, recommending Operation Northwoods be run by the military. Whether the Joint Chiefs' plans were rejected by McNamara in the meeting is not clear. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer directly there was virtually no possibility of ever using overt force to take Cuba, Bamford reports. Within months, Lemnitzer would be denied another term as chairman and transferred to another job. Ironically, the documents came to light, says Bamford, in part because of the 1992 Oliver Stone film JFK, which examined the possibility of a conspiracy behind the assassination of President Kennedy. "The scary thing is none of this stuff comes out until 40 years after," says Bamford."
—David Ruppe, ABC News, "Friendly Fire - U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba," May 1, 2001
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

"Operation NORTHWOODS may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government. Operation Northwoods had called for nothing less than the launch of a secret campaign of terrorism within the United States in order to blame Castro and provoke a war with Cuba."
—James Bamford, ABC News, "Friendly Fire - U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba," May 1, 2001
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1
www.bodyofsecrets.com

"It's easy to imagine an infinite number of situations where the government might legitimately give out false information. It's an unfortunate reality that the issuance of incomplete information and even misinformation by government may sometimes be perceived as necessary to protect vital interests."
—US Solicitor-General Theodore "Ted" Olson, in Jennifer K. Harbury vs. United States, at the US Supreme Court, on 17 March 2002 (his estranged 3rd wife Barabara Olson, attoney at law and CNN talkinghead disappeared on September 11, 2001, allegedly on American Airlines Flight 77 that never hit the Pentagon; he also argued Bush II vs. Gore III at US Supreme Court during Selection 2000 when 2.5-million registered votes disappeared - Bush Jr. allegedly won the selection by 500 votes. Harbury argued her case pro se, complaining that the US CIA tortured and murdered her husband, as part of Bush Sr White House narcoterrorist bombings during Iran-Contra, which the US government did not deny)

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Originally posted by freeradical42:

My mother is an American Airlines flight attendant, she has been for 35 years, and she knew people on board those flights.

I don't know if anyone has ever seen a watermelon get shot with a rifle, but the WTC was essentially a watermelon; rigid outside, soft empty inside;

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I notive you provide zero evidence that your mommy worked for bankrupt American Airlines as a whore, er, "flight attendent". Pay stubs, photos, etc. You must lay a foundation before you are allowed to present evidence in court of public opinion.

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Originally posted by freeradical42:


Who stood to gain? No one gains from war.

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
I think you are mixing up the message with the padding. For PN the message is that Jews are keeping white men like him down, the 9/11 stuff is just there to get you to read the message.

If you watch TV then the adverts are just irritations between programs. If TV is your business the programs are just things to make you watch the adverts.

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Physicist says heat substance felled WTC

EXXXTREMELY hot fires caused structures to fail, BYU expert says

Suzanne Dean
Deseret Morning News
April 11 2006

EPHRAIM — A Brigham Young University physicist said he now believes an incendiary substance called thermite, bolstered by sulfur, was used to generate exceptionally hot fires at the World Trade Center on 9/11, causing the structural steel to fail and the buildings to collapse.


This is what 1,000s of EXPLODING BOMBS looks like

"It looks like thermite with sulfur added, which really is a very clever idea," Steven Jones, professor of physics at BYU, told a meeting of the Utah Academy of Science, Arts and Letters at Snow College Friday.

http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA3/STILLS/THERMIT/THERMITE/
64JPG48/3.JPG
Thermite homebrewed in university chemistry lab

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Thermite Reaction

A diagram shows the layers of solids within a ceramic pot prior to this reaction. Glycerin is added to potassium permanganate at the top of a ceramic pot containing aluminum metal and iron oxide. When ignited by the glycerin/permanganate reaction, the aluminum/iron oxide mixture reacts vigorously and spectacularly, producing molten iron and aluminum oxide.

Equation
Fe2O3 + 2Al --> Al2O3 + 2Fe

http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA3/MAIN/THERMIT/PAGE1.HTM

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The government requires standard explosives to contain tag elements enabling them to be traced back to their manufacturers. But no tags are required in aluminum and iron oxide, the materials used to make thermite, he said. Nor, he said, are tags required in sulfur.

Jones is co-chairman, with James H. Fetzer, a distinguished professor of philosophy at the University of Minnesota of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, a group of college faculty members who believe conspirators other than pilots of the planes were directly involved in bringing down New York's Trade Towers.

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FREE VIDEO DOWNLOAD: September 11 Revisited

Were explosives used? It's been over 4 years since the most serious terrorist attack to hit USA, but has the story really been told? With 9/11 video clips rescued from the memory hole, Professor Stephen Jones and Dr David Griffin - Watch movie online or get the FREE DVD - Rated PG
www.911revisited.com

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http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA3/STILLS/THERMIT/THERMIT1/
64JPG48/0.JPG

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The thermite reaction involves a mixture of iron oxide and aluminum that has been placed in a flower pot and covered with potassium permanganate. Some glycerin is poured over the potassium permanganate and eventually begins to react. When the iron oxide-aluminum mixture is ignited, a very vigorous reaction occurs and a molten metal can be seen dropping from the flower pot into a bucket of sand below. The reaction is extremely exothermic, a great deal of heat is given off. When the product of the reaction is examined a large piece of white hot iron has fallen into the sand at the bottom of the apparatus. This illustrates that aluminum is an extremely strong reducing agent and also that this reaction is very highly exothermic.
http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA3/MAIN/THERMIT/PAGE1.HTM

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The group, which Jones said has 200 members, maintains a Web site at www.st911.org. A 40-page paper by Jones, along with other peer-reviewed and non-reviewed academic papers, are posted on the site.

Last year, Jones presented various arguments for his theory that explosives or incendiary devices were planted in the Trade Towers, and in WTC 7, a smaller building in the Trade Center complex, and that those materials, not planes crashing into the buildings, caused the buildings to collapse.


Thermite grenades are routinely used by US Govt to kill innocent people

At that time, he mentioned thermite as the possible explosive or incendiary agent. But Friday, he said he is increasingly convinced that thermite and sulfur were the root causes of the 9/11 disaster.

He told college professors and graduate students from throughout Utah gathered for the academy meeting that while almost no fire, even one ignited by jet fuel, can cause structural steel to fail, the combination of thermite and sulfur "slices through steel like a hot knife through butter."

He ticked off several pieces of evidence for his thermite fire theory:

First, he said, video showed a yellow, molten substance splashing off the side of the south Trade Tower about 50 minutes after an airplane hit it and a few minutes before it collapsed. Government investigators ruled out the possibility of melting steel being the source of the material because of the unlikelihood of steel melting. The investigators said the molten material must have been aluminum from the plane.

But, said Jones, molten aluminum is silvery. It never turns yellow. The substance observed in the videos "just isn't aluminum," he said. But, he said, thermite can cause steel to melt and become yellowish.

Second, he cited video pictures showing white ash rising from the south tower near the dripping, liquefied metal. When thermite burns, Jones said, it releases aluminum-oxide ash. The presence of both yellow-white molten iron and aluminum oxide ash "are signature characteristics of a thermite reaction," he said.

Another item of evidence, Jones said, is the fact that sulfur traces were found in structural steel recovered from the Trade Towers. Jones quoted the New York Times as saying sulfidization in the recovered steel was "perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the (official) investigation." But, he said, sulfidization fits the theory that sulfur was combined with thermite to make the thermite burn even hotter than it ordinarily would.

Jones said a piece of building wreckage had a gray substance on the outside that at one point had obviously been a dripping molten metal or liquid. He said that after thermite turns steel or iron into a molten form, and the metal hardens, it is gray.

He added that pools of molten metal were found beneath both trade towers and the 47-story WTC 7. That fact, he said, was never discussed in official investigation reports.

And even though WTC 7 was not connected to the Trade Towers — in fact, there was another building between it and the towers —and even though it was never hit by a plane, it collapsed. That suggests, he said, that it came down because a thermite fire caused its structural steel to fail.

Jones said his studies are confined to physical causes of the collapses, and he doesn't like to speculate about who might have entered the buildings and placed thermite and sulfur. But he said 10 to 20 people "in the know," plus other people who didn't know what they were doing but did what they were told, could have placed incendiary packages over several weeks.

www.deseretnews.com/dn/print/1,1442,635198488,00.html

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WTC's internal steel collumns were the strongest on planet Earth

In combustion science, there are three basic types of flames, namely, a jet burner, a pre-mixed flame, and a diffuse flame. A jet burner generally involves mixing the fuel and the oxidant in nearly stoichiometric proportions and igniting the mixture in a constant-volume chamber. Since the combustion products cannot expand in the constant-volume chamber, they exit the chamber as a very high velocity, fully combusted, jet. This is what occurs in a jet engine, and this is the flame type that generates the most intense heat.

In a pre-mixed flame, the same nearly stoichiometric mixture is ignited as it exits a nozzle, under constant pressure conditions. It does not attain the flame velocities of a jet burner. An oxyacetylene torch or a Bunsen burner is a pre-mixed flame.

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Thermite, also know by the trade name Thermit, is a classic chemistry trick and is a mixture of very fine aluminum powder with a metallic oxide, often iron-oxide (rust). The mixture needs to be ignited by a high temperature flame, such as that provided by a lit piece of magnesium. If the mixture is right, and the temperature of the igniter is hot enough, and intense heat reaction will take place.

In this instance thermite made lighting a campfire easy. Check out the pictures and videos.

Thermite explosions are not unheard of, so it is important to be safety conscious. Apparently they usually happen when the mixture is moist, or in a container, but I am not sure. Wikipedia says, "When thermite is made using iron (III) oxide, for maximum efficiency it should contain, by mass, 25.3% aluminium and 74.7% iron oxide."

Of course, these activities are inherently dangerous and should not be attempted at home. These activites may not be legal in all areas, so check the law.
www.bavetta.com/thermite/thermite.html

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In a diffuse flame, the fuel and the oxidant are not mixed before ignition, but flow together in an uncontrolled manner and combust when the fuel/oxidant ratios reach values within the flammable range. A fireplace flame is a diffuse flame burning in air, as was the WTC fire.

Diffuse flames generate the lowest heat intensities of the three flame types.

If the fuel and the oxidant start at ambient temperature, a maximum flame temperature can be defined. For carbon burning in pure oxygen, the maximum is 3,200°C; for hydrogen it is 2,750°C. Thus, for virtually any hydrocarbons, the maximum flame temperature, starting at ambient temperature and using pure oxygen, is approximately 3,000°C.

This maximum flame temperature is reduced by two-thirds if air is used rather than pure oxygen. The reason is that every molecule of oxygen releases the heat of formation of a molecule of carbon monoxide and a molecule of water. If pure oxygen is used, this heat only needs to heat two molecules (carbon monoxide and water), while with air, these two molecules must be heated plus four molecules of nitrogen. Thus, burning hydrocarbons in air produces only one-third the temperature increase as burning in pure oxygen because three times as many molecules must be heated when air is used. The maximum flame temperature increase for burning hydrocarbons (jet fuel) in air is, thus, about 1,000°C—hardly sufficient to melt steel at 1,500°C.

But it is very difficult to reach this maximum temperature with a diffuse flame. There is nothing to ensure that the fuel and air in a diffuse flame are mixed in the best ratio. Typically, diffuse flames are fuel rich, meaning that the excess fuel molecules, which are unburned, must also be heated. It is known that most diffuse fires are fuel rich because blowing on a campfire or using a blacksmith’s bellows increases the rate of combustion by adding more oxygen. This fuel-rich diffuse flame can drop the temperature by up to a factor of two again. This is why the temperatures in a residential fire are usually in the 500°C to 650°C range.2,3 It is known that the WTC fire was a fuel-rich, diffuse flame as evidenced by the copious black smoke. Soot is generated by incompletely burned fuel; hence, the WTC fire was fuel rich—hardly surprising with 90,000 L of jet fuel available. Factors such as flame volume and quantity of soot decrease the radiative heat loss in the fire, moving the temperature closer to the maximum of 1,000°C. However, it is highly unlikely that the steel at the WTC experienced temperatures above the 750–800°C range. All reports that the steel melted at 1,500°C are using imprecise terminology at best.

It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses about half of its strength at 650°C.4 This is why steel is stress relieved in this temperature range. But even a 50% loss of strength is still insufficient, by itself, to explain the WTC collapse. It was noted above that the wind load controlled the design allowables. The WTC, on this low-wind day, was likely not stressed more than a third of the design allowable, which is roughly one-fifth of the yield strength of the steel. Even with its strength halved, the steel could still support two to three times the stresses imposed by a 650°C fire.

The World Trade Center was not defectively designed.

www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html

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So if I AM "crazy", what does that tell you that your govt hired me to work on supersonic F-111 aircraft and nuclear bombs, conventional high explosive bombs, gatling guns firing 6,000 grenades per second, C-4 plastic explosives, and everything in between? Your govt trusted me to start a jet engine, climb in the cockpit and fire up the weapons system of a nuclear bomber loaded with live nukes.

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Originally posted by freeradical42:

Clearly because no one else was crazy enough to do it.

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Originally posted by freeradical42:

I find it interesting that your only response to me was to insult my mother. I remember when "your mom's a whore" jokes were funny.

On top of that, American Airlines is one of the few airlines that is not bankrupt, so I wonder how bankrupt your other facts are.

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The parent company of American Airlines will lose 20,000 workers - spread across American, Trans World Airlines and the American Eagle commuter carrier, the parent company, AMR Corporation. But the US Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neill, told Congress that the US government would move swiftly to give aid to the industry, to ensure that the costs of extra safety measures and the increased costs of insurance did not fall on the industry. The US government has proposed a $5bn handout to help US airlines and assist with insurance liabilities, but has stopped short of the $12.5bn (bribe) the industry says it needs to stave off bankruptcies (and shut up about 9/11 being an inside job).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1553416.stm

American Airlines, the world's largest passenger carrier, could seek Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection as early as next week, The New York Times reported on Friday. The New York daily based its report on two unnamed bankers whom it said had been briefed on the airline's condition. One said that the airline needed US$1.5bn to avoid seeking the protection from its creditors granted by bankruptcy. Tara Baten, a spokesperson for American, told the Times that the airline, a unit of AMR, still hoped to avoid a Chapter 11 filing. US airlines have been stalling since the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington. The second-largest carrier, United, filed for bankruptcy last year as did US Airways, the sixth-largest. The situation became worse with the start of the US-led war on Iraq.
www.news24.com/News24/Finance/Companies/0,6119,2-8-24_1339734,00.html

The merger will make American Airlines the world's largest air carrier. The purchase of bankrupt TWA already has received approval from Department of Justice and Department of Transportation regulators, as well as the approval of TWA's unions.
http://money.cnn.com/2001/04/09/deals/twa/index.htm

In 2005, the U.S. airline industry is expected to lose between $9 billion and $10 billion, due in large part to rising jet fuel prices. Over the last five years, the industry has lost more than $40 billion. In that period, 17 different U.S. airlines have filed for bankruptcy.
www.meetingsnet.com/associationmeetings/mag/meetings_flying_bankrupt_s
kies/

American Airlines, Northwest Airlines and JetBlue Airways have raised ticket fares in various markets, a press release said. They hope to recoup some of their increased costs from record fuel prices. Flight analysts feel that the current rise in oil prices is enough to make some airlines bankrupt. The higher ticket prices did little to help the beleaguered industry's shares, as oil prices raced to record highs above $66 a barrel on Friday.
www.dancewithshadows.com/airlines/flights-increase-fares.asp

Airlines Bankrupt: When Will Government Step In?

Two days later, American Airlines, the world's largest carrier, preemptively initiated a self-cannibalization and shrinkage plan, trying desperately to please the Wall Street financial speculators who have sold off its stock: retiring 83 planes, reorganizing its "hub" system by scrapping multiple flights at peak hours, trading big planes for smaller, regional aircraft, while laying off another 7,000 employees.
www.larouchepub.com/other/2002/2932airlines.html

And now American Airlines is about to join the bread line in front of bankruptcy court. It's no secret that for the last couple of weeks American has been sniffing around town trying to line up a couple billion in loans.

Here's a sign of the times, though: nobody would consider that kind of money unless the company goes into bankruptcy first. Most likely lender: Citigroup. Remember the guys who loaned billions to Latin American countries in the eighties because they thought that was a good investment? Well, a full 3 percent of their annual earnings per share comes from the American Airlines Frequent Flyer credit card. Chapter 11, the airline's best friend, finally looms before the airline that was once considered the strongest and most solvent in the world. In case you're keeping track, American follows United (December), US Airways (last summer), and, going back in time, Continental, Northwest, TWA, Eastern, Pan American and Braniff. United Airlines is still steamed that the Bush administration refused to fork over $1.8 billion in 9/11 money last December, triggering the Chapter 11 action. American Airlines lost $3.5 billion in 2002. They're still hemorrhaging $5 million a day. Of the $4 billion they need to trim to stay afloat, they say they can find two of it through cutbacks. The other half would need to come from three big unions--the pilots, the mechanics and the flight attendants. Early returns indicate that the pilots and mechanics are willing to bite the bullet, but the flight attendants--already battered by various efficiency moves over the past 15 years--are not likely to vote for any more layoffs and pay cuts.
www.joebobbriggs.com/specialreports/20030414.html

These airlines filed for bankruptcy protection on the following dates:

Northwest Airlines: 14 September 2005
Delta Air Lines: 14 September 2005
Mesaba Aviation: 13 October 2005
Independence Air: 7 November 2005 (ceased service 5 January 2006)
Era Aviation: 28 December 2005

The current airline bankruptcy proceedings will probably go on for many months, perhaps for years. Some airlines -- including Continental Airlines, America West, US Airways, United Airlines, ATA Airlines ("American Trans Air"), Hawaiian Airlines, and Aloha Airlines -- have reorganized under bankruptcy protection, and are still operating. Several others in the USA, and more in other parts of the world, have gone out of business, sometimes after being in and out of bankruptcy repeatedly.

www.hasbrouck.org/articles/bankruptcy.html

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Florida Coastal Airlines (February 2006)

Independence Air (January 2006)

TransMeridian Airlines (September 2005)

Westward Airways (July 2005)

Southeast Airlines (November 2004)

National Airlines (November 2002)

Vanguard Airlines (July 2002)

Midway Airlines (July 2002)

Legend Airlines (December 2000)

Pro Air (September 2000)

Tower Air (February 2000)

Access Air (November 1999)

Sunjet International/Myrtle Beach Jet Express (June 1999)

Kiwi International Airlines (March 1999)

Euram Flight Centre (July 1998)

Pan American World Airways (February 1998)

Western Pacific Airlines (February 1998)

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/cessations.htm

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Originally posted by freeradical42:

The only thing that you seem to have any information on is that Paxil is an SSRI. Yes, it is. That's probably where Joss Whedon got the name Pax, right? No. "Paxil" and "Pax" are both named from the Latin word for "Peace"; remember "Pax Romana"? "Pax Dei"? Were the Catholic Church of the 1000s and the Romans of the 100s giving their population SSRIs? I'm guessing they weren't, but you might suggest they were. A similarity of three letters means nothing.

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Originally posted by freeradical42:

For example, take my claim that the WTC towers were similar to a watermelon being hit with a bullet; when you scale up, they are. They're being hit with more mass, more momentum, and more kinetic energy and heat than a watermelon being hit by a bullet, but they can also withstand more. The two models are roughly analogous. Because the steel beams in the WTC were on the exterior of the buildings, they were like the hard rind of the melon. With only drywall and elevator shafts on the interior.

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http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html

WTC core columns were the largest on Earth

Reports on the number of core columns vary from 44 to 47. The exact arrangement of the columns is not known due to the secrecy of detailed engineering drawings of the towers. It is clear from photographs, such as the one on the right, that the core columns were abundantly cross-braced.

Establishing the true nature of the core structures is of great importance given that the most widely read document on the World Trade Center attack -- the 9/11 Commission Report -- denies their very existence, claiming the towers' cores were "hollow steel shafts":

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"For the dimensions, see FEMA report, 'World Trade Center Building Performance Study,' undated. In addition, the outside of each tower was covered by a frame of 14-inch-wide steel columns; the centers of the steel columns were 40 inches apart. These exterior walls bore most of the weight of the building. The interior core of the buildings was a hollow steel shaft, in which elevators and stairwells were grouped."
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html

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BULLSHIT!


Look at those 47 core columns at WTC
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html

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Originally posted by freeradical42:
It's hard to understand if your mind hasn't worked on that level before, I don't blame you for not understanding that. I blame you for being completely insulting about it.

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