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Originally posted by SimonWho:
The other factor is that the Germans have no sense of humour about it, something that few of us can resist.

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Originally posted by SimonWho:
The other factor is that the Germans have no sense of humour about it, something that few of us can resist.

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Originally posted by Khyron:

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Originally posted by SimonWho:
The other factor is that the Germans have no sense of humour about it, something that few of us can resist.

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Sorry SimonWho, but that was just a stupid thing to say. Of course they don't have a sense of humour about it. Would the British, the Spanish and the French have a sense of humour if people started making fun of them exterminating millions of natives during colonialism? Would Americans have a sense of humour if people made fun of slavery?

Besides, it's impossible for Germans to have a sense of humour about it since from an early age there's this guilt complex that gets hammered into them. Fletch mentioned this before, and I can confirm it since I lived in Germany for a while and also know a couple of people there, but Germans, through their own media and upbringing, are made to feel guilty about the holocaust and WWII, even if they were born decades after it happened. So of course if another country, particularly one that has a past that it shouldn't be completely proud of in its own right, constantly makes fun of Germans because of its past through its tabloid press, it's going to hurt.

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Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

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Originally posted by citizen:
He was joking...

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Originally posted by SimonWho:
One of my close friends remembers it all vividly, how she suffered, how her husband suffered and how the country suffered. How her friends died. How her family died. Now if you'd care to tell her that she should "get over it", please, do so here and I'll pass it on to her.

It's as the old saying goes "If you don't want your country to get the occasional jest at its expense, don't embark on mass campaigns of slaughter, hatred and genocide."

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Originally posted by Grounded:
But how does this relate to young people/children being born in Germany today? The point of this thread is that modern day Germany shouldn't be held responsible for the acts of their ancestors.

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Originally posted by SimonWho:
There are still Nazis in Germany. There are still neo-Nazis in Germany.

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And if the US team is the fourth best in the world... well, it isn't, no matter what the FIFA rankings say.

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Originally posted by piratenews:
It's not bad they don't forget history, it's bad they never learn from it.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
I had a question about Ello Ello but never mind (never heard of it, that's all).

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Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

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Originally posted by citizen:
Spitting Image ran for years. At least 10, it was hardly banned the creators decided they'd had enough, as for re-runs they're on on UK Gold, but being a show the satired the weeks current news I doubt theres much call for it, since part of what made each episode funny was knowing the real event behind it.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
Do you really think the English would be okay with it if the French were making fun of them for their crimes during colonialism?

ii) So one of your close friends suffered during the war, that makes the tabloid press making war-related jokes about Germans alright? And this may sound cruel, but yes, 'get over it' is exactly the advice I'd give to her. If she spent most of the 60 years since then thinking about the sufferings during the war, then that's not really living. I know it's not easy to 'get over it', but it's some sound advice. Feel free to pass it along.

iii) I'm sure you made that 'old saying' up .

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Originally posted by SimonWho:

I disagree that a gap of 60 years utterly absolves Germany of its culpability. But if having a different opinion to you makes me a moron, well...

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Originally posted by SimonWho:
And nations mock other nations.

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Oh and all tabloid journalism is moronity of the lowest order, obviously.

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Originally posted by SimonWho:
Let's take a man who guards a camp where thousands of people die every day, simply for being Jewish. He does this job for years, never questioning, never challeging, always supporting the party that organises this act of genocide. His wife is a member of the party too and helps take part in the war effort that has so far overrun over a dozen countries that had offered no direct threat to her own nation.

They have three children.

What sort of children do monsters raise?

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The Sun pictures of Angela Merkel look like the preliminary round in what is likely to be a series of British tabloid stories mocking the Germans in the run-up to the World Cup, being held in Germany this summer, most referring one way or another to World War II.

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Originally posted by Khyron:

Would you mind telling me what your point is with this remark? I want to be clear about it before I respond to it.

Just on a sidenote, it's not like most guards at concentration camps had a choice. Had they challenged what's going on or refused to do their job, they would have been demoted (if they were lucky), but usually seen as a traitor and incarcerated, or maybe even executed. Don't mistake "follow orders or die" with not having a moral objection to something.

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Originally posted by SimonWho:
You know, this is a discussion forum. If you believe that there's no link between the generation of Germany 60 years ago and today's Germany, argue the case.

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Make a coherent set of points...

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1) The vast majority of Germans had turned against the Nazi ideology by 1945.

2) Post-war Germany deliberately wiped out all traces of Nazism as far as they were able to.

3) There are numerous laws in place to restrict any growth of Nazism, including the banning of Nazi memorabilia, the Swastika in visual media and publication of Nazi documents.

4) Germany has been one of the great democratic influences in Eastern Europe, bringing true power to the people.

5) Germany has also been instrumental in the European Union, ensuring peaceful coexistence among nations.

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I'm not going to play devil's advocate with you anymore.

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Originally posted by SimonWho:
All I'm expecting is a cogent argument which I don't think we've had. All I've seen is "It's a different generation therefore they're totally different"

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And just because someone's not perfect, that doesn't mean they're a monster, which rather destroys your counterargument.

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Besides, I only raised the question - what sort of child do two monsters raise?

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I'd be interested in your answer if you can keep a civil tongue.

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Originally posted by SimonWho:
No, I'm saying that you can't ask one group of people to be polite "because we should be fair" and then call somebody who disagrees with you "a c***".

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And now you seem to be under the impression that insulting people is the way to get their attention. Which is surely what you were arguing against in the first place.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
AnthonyT:

That's the logic I thought he was trying to apply but I wanted to give him a chance to think about it and maybe reconsider, since my response to it is far less than charitable.

His logic seems to be: (Germans during WWII were monsters) & (monsters beget monsters) => (Germans these days are monsters).

This is not only flawed for the reason you give, but incredibly narrow-minded and offensive (hell, I'm offended and I'm not even German). But I first want to hear his response to see if that's really what he meant before I call him a c***.

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Either way, I'm going to find a more interesting discussion.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
This is your fault, Khyron, you Mongolian!

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