RWE Survey: Where you stand at a glance by canttakesky

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

RWE Survey: Where you stand at a glance

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 15:46
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Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:18 PM

I am curious where RWErs stand on various controversial issues in one convenient post. (I culled these from past threads, then threw in some extra.) Content in parentheses suggest common positions, but are by no means the only possible positions. Feel free to diverge, add, or subtract.

ABORTION (prolife, prochoice):
AL-QAEDA THREAT (grave and imminent, exaggerated):
BUSH (pro, con):
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (pro, con):
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS (pancake, demolition, other):
CROP CIRCLES (manmade, paranormal):
ETs (exist, not):
GOD (theist, agnostic, atheist):
GLOBAL WARMING (manmade, not):
GUN CONTROL (pro, con):
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS (defensible, overboard):
PARANORMAL (exist, no):
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY (conservative, liberal, other)
TAXES (more, less):
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK (accidental, intentional):
WAR ON TERROR (defensible, overboard):
WAR IRAQ (necessary, contrived):

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Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:21 PM

CANTTAKESKY

I'll start.

ABORTION (prolife, prochoice): personally prolife, politically prochoice
AL-QAEDA THREAT (grave and imminent, exaggerated): artificially created
BUSH (pro, con): con
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (pro, con): con
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS (pancake, demolition): Dunno. Lean towards demolition.
CROP CIRCLES (manmade, paranormal): Dunno. Lean towards manmade (doesn't necessarily mean prank)
ETs (exist, not): Dunno. Lean towards not.
GOD / RELIGION (theist, agnostic, atheist): non-religious Christian
GLOBAL WARMING (manmade, not): Dunno. Lean towards not.
GUN CONTROL (pro, con): Very very con.
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS (defensible, overboard): Terrorist.
PARANORMAL (exist, no): Dunno. Lean very much towards exist.
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY (conservative, liberal, other): Libertarian
TAXES (more, less): abolish
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK (accidental, intentional): intentional
WAR ON TERROR (defensible, overboard): Crazy overboard.
WAR IRAQ (necessary, contrived): Crazy contrived.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:33 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

I'll steal as many of your answers as I think apply to me, canttakethesky.

Bearing in mind that I am by no means an expert, and these opinons are subject to change, here are my answers.

ABORTION (prolife, prochoice): personally prolife, politically prochoice

AL-QAEDA THREAT (grave and imminent, exaggerated): exaggerated

BUSH (pro, con): con

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (pro, con): con

COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS (pancake, demolition): pancake

CROP CIRCLES (manmade, paranormal): manmade

ETs (exist, not): not

GOD / RELIGION (theist, agnostic, atheist): atheist

GLOBAL WARMING (manmade, not): mostly not

GUN CONTROL (pro, con): Very, very pro.

ISRAELI WAR TACTICS (defensible, overboard): crazy much?

PARANORMAL (exist, no): not a chance

POLITICAL IDEOLOGY (conservative, liberal, other): no idea

TAXES (more, less): abolish

USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK (accidental, intentional): not a clue

WAR ON TERROR (defensible, overboard): Crazy overboard.

WAR IRAQ (necessary, contrived): Crazy contrived.

EDITED because something was explained (see below).
---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:41 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Interesting. I don't get down here much, but I'll throw in my stance.

ABORTION: Pro-choice
AL-QAEDA THREAT: Exaggerated.
BUSH: Still not my President.
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT: Pro. For some things.
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS (pancake, demolition, other): You mean there's argument over whether it was being hit by a big gorramn plane or something else? I would say, from what I quite vividly remember, that they collapsed from the top down in a horrifying manner.
CROP CIRCLES: Both; many are manmade, some are unexplainable. I used to be fascinated with them.
ETs: Sure. Maybe they haven't visited (though I think that might be possible too) but somewhere out there I'm sure there's another planet teeming with life.
GOD: Earth-worship (more or less) also seeking personal enlightenment/contact with the divine. However you want to define the divine, I think it's all the same thing.
GLOBAL WARMING: I think there are many factors, not the least of which are man made.
GUN CONTROL: I see nothing wrong with reasonable gun control. Maybe a license of some kind. Just as you have to prove you can handle a car without accidentally killing someone, I think the same should hold true for guns. Nothing beyond that, though, I understand and respect why the 2nd exists.
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS: totally overboard.
PARANORMAL: Sure.
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY: I'm more liberal most of the time, but there are a few traditional conservative ideas I can get behind (the ones that have nothing to do with religion)
TAXES: Less, with better and more sensible usage thereof.
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK: I don't know about that one. Another age-old conspiracy theory.
WAR ON TERROR: Ridiculous.
WAR IRAQ: Contrived and also ridiculous.

Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. - Gautama Siddharta

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Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:49 PM

CANTTAKESKY

COLLAPSE OF THE WTC TOWERS. Pancake refers to natural collapse of the floors like a stack of pancakes when the planes hit them. Demolition refers to an alternative explanation that the collapse wasn't caused by aircraft impact, but by a demolition job.

Sorry I wasn't clear about that.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Tuesday, August 22, 2006 7:50 PM

ONLYFOUR

As a long-time lurker (maybe a year or so) and an avid fan of Firefly and this particular board (RWE) I find it odd that this will be my first post (or nearly so), but I will bite:

ABORTION (prolife, prochoice): personally prolife, politically state-choice
AL-QAEDA THREAT (grave and imminent, exaggerated): not entirely exaggerated (there are people that want to kill us), but definitely a tool of DT's 'evil' crowd to produce a response from the general public
BUSH (pro, con): overall con, but I think he believes things and tries (which is admirable whether I disagree with his beliefs or not), unfortunately I view him as a tool for use by other people so what he believes are not necessarily his own thoughts
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (pro, con): pro because there are times when I would do the killing myself so I cannot in good conscience oppose a state's choice to do so either
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS (pancake, demolition, other): other as I cannot accept either hypothesis (and that's what they are); what happened that day was bad for the few involved and worse for everyone else that cared, other than that I have no clue despite 'evidence' on each side of the issue
CROP CIRCLES (manmade, paranormal): unfortuately (since I enjoy HK's posts) I do not care, but would lean toward manmade if forced to define a position (pending further information - filling my own lack of data about what other people already 'know' as well as a possible future interesting theory coming into the light)
ETs (exist, not): again, do not care (which may be sad) but willing to listen
GOD (theist, agnostic, atheist): theist in my personal life but not a practicing Christian in the 'organized religion' sense
GLOBAL WARMING (manmade, not): not sure, but lean toward natural cyclic changes with perhaps a nudge by man's influences (volcanos produce a helluva lot of these 'greenhouse gases' that everyone keeps floating around as manmade influences)
GUN CONTROL (pro, con): I like Firefly... that should explain my point of view, but in case it doesn't I'll just say, if you can't defend what you 'own' then you don't 'own' anything whether you feel like a baseball bat is enough or if you need a Series 70 Model 1911 A1 then that's your business; I own guns and will continue to do so whether the government says I can or not
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS (defensible, overboard): I waffle on this as in some ways I sympathize with the 'we are surrounded' mentality, but sometimes I wonder why they have that mentality and do not sympathize
PARANORMAL (exist, no): exists (I'm a theist so I have to accept after-life as having existence and all that may or may not imply) this would include psychic phenomena as well as the whole 'ghosts' thing
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY (conservative, liberal, other): old-school conservative (definitely not neo-con), and as such have to vote Libertarian since I often can't find conservatives in either of the two-party system's choices
TAXES (more, less): none, I've got the sense that it is mostly unconstitutional as levees and tariffs were the original means of providing the federal government with the money to perform their duties (explicitly stated in the Constitution) and since the expansion of the government's income (taxes) has promoted it's growth it has produced more societal problems than it has 'solved'
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK (accidental, intentional): intentional, however the question remains whether it was justified or not; I lean toward justified though I would have to say as an American it was an affront and deserved retribution, but objectively I'd be upset that some other country was spying on my war
WAR ON TERROR (defensible, overboard): it is as overboard as the war on drugs... i'm anti-drugs and anti-terror but both 'Wars On' aren't really focused on stopping either of their targets but are really about power acquisition by forces that DT would name as 'evil'
WAR IRAQ (necessary, contrived): neither... Iraq was a threat to an agenda so it was not contrived, I however disagree with that agenda so I wouldn't have felt it was necessary, however since the agenda (decades old) has a forefront in our geopolitics (American hegemony that is doomed to failure) it was very necessary... again, I disagree with the agenda, but don't dismiss the actions as something silly and manufactured by unthinking individuals, it was very necessary for them to do so in following that agenda

I notice that I used DT as a base-point in some of those, so I guess you'd have to say that I for good or ill follow his train of thought on quite a few things related to politics (his new reformed vision of the world). In a related note, I have always been slightly happy with all of your (CTS) posts whether I agreed or not. That may be why I'm posting now on your thread. Either way, it was an interesting and eclectic mix of questions.

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Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:46 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Cool thread, canttakesky!

ABORTION: I believe a necessary condition for equality will be met when women are the sole deciders of if and when they become pregnant. This will involve education about and access to a whole spectrum of contraceptive techniques for both men and women, abortion being the most drastic.
AL-QAEDA THREAT: I do not believe that al-qaeda, and other terrorist organizations, can destroy the United States. They pose a threat but with judicious changes to our domestic security (tightening up port security, for example) we can minimize that threat (not eliminate it) while still maintaining our civil liberties. We also need to partner with moderate Muslims around the world to push these organizations even more towards the fringe.
BUSH: I believe, on the whole, that this country has taken many steps backward under the Bush administration.
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT: While I don't personally believe that the death penalty is necessary I also don't think it should be completely abolished. I do believe that our application of the death penalty has serious problems that need to be corrected.
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS: I believe that the two World Trade Center towers collapsed because of a sequence of events set in motion by the impact of airplanes. I do not believe that explosive charges were involved.
CROP CIRCLES: I haven't really thought about this much but I tend to fall into the, "people with too much time on their hands," camp.
ETs: Another topic I haven't spent too much time thinking about. My gut feeling is no.
GOD: I was raised to believe in a Creator and there will always be a part of me that takes comfort in believing what I grew up believing. However, it's something I purposefully don't think too much about.
GLOBAL WARMING: I think that we, as a species, are having an effect on global climate change that is accelerating natural trends. And the direction we are heading is one that will produce more strain on our ability to comfortably live on this planet.
GUN CONTROL: I think we need to make a distinction between rural and urban areas in whatever policy is out there. While I personally don't feel the need to own a firearm (and really don't see the need for handguns at all) I don't care what other people choose to buy, within reason.
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS: Anybody got an eleven foot pole?
PARANORMAL: I think that the five traditional senses only capture a fraction of the information that is available to be captured.
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY: Socially and fiscally liberal
TAXES: Less for the middle class. More for the upper class. Much more for the upper class.
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK: From a cursory reading it looks to me like the ship was in the wrong place, at least some of the Israeli military attacking the ship knew it was American, a decision was made by the US to hang the Libety out to dry and that the US government wanted to close the file on the incident as quickly and quietly as possible.
WAR ON TERROR: Mismanaged. And poorly named.
WAR IRAQ: Unneccessary. A colossal mistake. And a very costly one in human terms.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:29 AM

JOSSISAGOD

ABORTION (prolife, prochoice):Prochoice.
AL-QAEDA THREAT (grave and imminent, exaggerated):Not exactly sure it's imminent, but it is there.
BUSH (pro, con):Con.
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (pro, con):Con, no one deserves death for a crime, I believe if we sentence someone to death it makes us no better than those who did the crime in the first place.
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS (pancake, demolition, other):Pancake, caused by two GIANT air-planes!
CROP CIRCLES (manmade, paranormal): Both I think, some just are inexplicable.
ETs (exist, not):Exist, SOMEWHERE.
GOD (theist, agnostic, atheist):Other, Taoist, I don't think God is deffinable.
GLOBAL WARMING (manmade, not):Manmade.
GUN CONTROL (pro, con):Pro, to a point.
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS (defensible, overboard):OVERBOARD.
PARANORMAL (exist, no):Exists.
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY (conservative, liberal, other)Liberal.
TAXES (more, less):Fewer taxes, better way to spend tax money.
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK (accidental, intentional):Not sure.
WAR ON TERROR (defensible, overboard): I don't think there's any REAL way to fight terror, you can get rid of one person, but once you do, more people will take their place.
WAR IRAQ (necessary, contrived):COMPLETELY UNnecessary.

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:04 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Ok, fine, I'll play, since all of these answers are already obvious anyway.

ABORTION - No one's bizness but the couple involved, period.

AL-QAEDA THREAT - *snort* What threat ?

BUSH - Back to texas, his village is missing it's idiot.

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT - Wasteful, badly executed, uncessary as a gov't function.

COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS - Unknown for sure, official story obvious BS.

CROP CIRCLES - Don't know, honestly don't care.

ETs - If they do, I hope they have the sense to avoid us, we're insane and dangerous.

GOD - None of your biz, everyone believes something different even in the same little pigeonholes, and is usually dishonest when asked what it is.

GLOBAL WARMING - Combination of natural factors accellerated by mankinds stupidity.

GUN CONTROL - None, personal defense and the lack thereof leads to social insanity.

ISRAELI WAR TACTICS - Malicious lunacy.

PARANORMAL - Bah, science just hasn't caught up, we know VERY little about the world and our universe, and there's more to it than we likely ever will.

POLITICAL IDEOLOGY - Anarchist.

TAXES - None, zero, zilch, especially when stuff is budgeted for projects the american public isn't even allowed to KNOW, much less express opinion on or vote on - that is what caused the rift between us and the Brits to begin with.

USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK - Intentional, and aided by Johnson in some fashion.

WAR ON TERROR - Lunacy, might as well have a war on dandruff, or a war on flanking maneuvers.. you can't wage war against a tactic OF war, that's asinine.

WAR IRAQ - Needless, wasteful, stupid, and some bit of our fault to begin with for material and armament support of many of the factions involved.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:16 AM

THEKNIGHT

ABORTION (prolife, prochoice):personally prolife, politically pro choice
AL-QAEDA THREAT (grave and imminent, exaggerated):a threat, but not one that should hinder civil liberties
BUSH (pro, con):still would vote for him over the other guy, give me a better choice and that could change
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (pro, con):undecided
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS (pancake, demolition, other):pancake
CROP CIRCLES (manmade, paranormal):a bit of both
ETs (exist, not):exist
GOD (theist, agnostic, atheist):theist, with deist leanings
GLOBAL WARMING (manmade, not):overall not
GUN CONTROL (pro, con):is using both hands
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS (defensible, overboard):defensible
PARANORMAL (exist, no):exists
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY (conservative, liberal, other)like to think of myself as an emerging libertarian
TAXES (more, less):less, don't think they can be abolished but should at least be made flat
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK (accidental, intentional):don't know enought about it but seems like a conspiracy too far out for even paranoid old me
WAR ON TERROR (defensible, overboard):defensible, but should be handled better
WAR IRAQ (necessary, contrived): not necessary but that is irrelavent, we are there, we have to finish the job, even if the reason we are there is wrong, we still have to start what we finished

1:40 AM after a fraternity party is not a good time to make a signature.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:39 AM

PENGUIN

ABORTION (pro-choice): I wish it didn’t need to exist, but since it does, the government has no say in personal matters.
AL-QAEDA THREAT (exaggerated): Can you say “Military Industrial Complex?”
BUSH (con): Still not my President. (thank you PR!)
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (pro): With limits for certain crimes. Some people do not deserve to breathe my air.
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS (pancake): I want to believe the government had no part in this. (I trust my government as far as I can throw it.)
CROP CIRCLES (manmade): There is no E.T.
ETs (not): See above.
GOD (agnostic): There may be a greater power, but he seems not to care…
GLOBAL WARMING (manmade): This is obvious. You can’t fill the world with pollutants and NOT have it effect the climate.
GUN CONTROL (pro): How many machine guns do people need?
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS (defensible): If you were surrounded by people who don’t want you to exist, you might be a bit paranoid too!
PARANORMAL (no): No proof, all tricks.
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY (other) If I have to label myself - Libertarian.
TAXES (less): Much, much less. I’m tired of PORK!
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK (intentional): Don’t really care.
WAR ON TERROR (overboard): See “AL-QAEDA THREAT.” You can’t fight ideologies. Protect our borders…all of them!
WAR IRAQ (contrived): See “AL-QAEDA THREAT.” Bush lied. Period.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:17 AM

DREAMTROVE

Oh, this is a stoke the firefight sort of thread, but sure.

ABORTION (prolife, prochoice): solidly prolife, but this is a states rights issue.
AL-QAEDA THREAT (grave and imminent, exaggerated): somewhat exaggerated. I mean there is an al qaeda, and they are a destablizing force, but they are not what the admin. paints them as, I'm not convinced they did 9-11 or at least, not single-handedly
BUSH (pro, con): con. Not on every issue, but generally, he's a weak pres.
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (pro, con): con, i think the death penalty is an institution of big govt. minimal govt would exile its criminals. Why support big govts. right to silence you? I think I turned con on this issue with Timothy McVeigh. Not that he was a great humanist, but I think he had some stuff to say and was being silenced by execution. Gore Vidal thinks so too. I now know historically that this is a common tool of big govt.
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS (pancake, demolition, other): demolition brought the buildings down. Planes flew, crash, sure, but that's a demolition collapes. I'm 100% certain of nothing, but this has hit my 99.9%. It still doesn't answer the 'who' question, but it's pretty much locked solid that this is what happened.
CROP CIRCLES (manmade, paranormal): manmade, possibly animal. A lot of animal structures out there, but I'm stickign with my mexican pranksters.
ETs (exist, not): exist, but not on earth as a sentient settlement (ie, some earthling species may be of extraterrestrial origin, but if so, I sincerely doubt the know it. Remember, the indians of north america had know idea they came from asia, and it had only been a few thousand years.)
GOD (theist, agnostic, atheist): I'm strong in my faith which does not call for the existance of a god.
GLOBAL WARMING (manmade, not): a mix. Some is cyclical, but humans have helped.
GUN CONTROL (pro, con): Con. I'm of a mixed mind. I'd like a society which had no guns in it toi lower the amount of street crime, but people need access to guns to defend themselves. I suspect that the original intention of the founding fathers were 'a well ordered militia' like having guns stored at the local rod and gun club or something. I also think that it's meaningless unless the people can be guaranteed the same weapons at their potential attackers, which at the moment, their not.
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS (defensible, overboard): overboard. Israel has a right to protect itself from terrorists, and it wouldn't bug me if they just packed up all the arabs inside Israel and shipped them out, but they should stay out of gaza and the west bank, and definitely out of Lebanon. Everyone has a right to run their own society how they choose, including Israel, but also including Palestine.
PARANORMAL (exist, no): gut says no, but I think that it's more complicated than that. There are a lot of forces in the universe that modern science doesn't yet understand, which will have many magical effects. But most of the stuff the new agers come up with is total hogwash. Just wishful thinking.
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY (conservative, liberal, other): conservative
TAXES (more, less): defintely less. How about none? Govt. should sell what it owns, or provide services to a free market, and that way raise a small amount of money on which a limited govt. could be run.
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK (accidental, intentional): I really haven't studied it enough, I'd guess it was an accident.
WAR ON TERROR (defensible, overboard): overboard or neither, the war on terror is pure spin, it's a reign of terror idea.
WAR IRAQ (necessary, contrived): I don't know if it was contrived. I mean, Saddam Hussein was not just a bad guy, he was a regional threat. Here's a socialist dictator who had been aggessively attacking his neighbors since he came to power, and had killed over a million people. But the way it was sold, and executed, was bogus. I think that if they wanted to get rid of saddam, they could have gotten a lot of help from neighbors, especially Iran, and it would have been a very different conflict. But I'm beginning to suspect this was never about Saddam, but about some sort of MEFTA, and of course, oil.

I think this is list missing a lot of key political perspective questions, I might make my own list to augment this ie not reiterate.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:22 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

ABORTION (prolife, prochoice): Some abortion should be legal, but Americans should be appalled at the disgraceful way it is used as a replacement for simple contraceptive. Roe-v-Wade should be overturned.

AL-QAEDA THREAT (grave and imminent, exaggerated): Most definitely grave and imminent.

BUSH (pro, con): Mostly pro.

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (pro, con): Mostly against. Capital punishment is so difficult to apply with certitude that it often amounts to decades of appeal and therefore often lacks promptness. Most people probably don’t deserve capital punishment, and of those that do, it is usually too good for them.

COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS (pancake, demolition, other): WTC towers collapsed due to compromised structural integrity as a result of the impact of fuel laden airliners.

CROP CIRCLES (manmade, paranormal): I made them.

ETs (exist, not): Doesn’t matter. We will never encounter them, if they do exist.

GOD (theist, agnostic, atheist): Theist. Though some would undoubtedly allege that I’m agnostic.

GLOBAL WARMING (manmade, not): Anthropogenic warming is probably involved, but too much evidence exists for the earth’s variable, even dramatic, climate change, to believe that the whole of global warming is manmade.

GUN CONTROL (pro, con): We have enough gun control, as it is.

ISRAELI WAR TACTICS (defensible, overboard): Overzealous is usually the term, but Israel exists today because it was able to defend itself from the overwhelming militaries of repeated consecutive Arab invasions. Few of Israel’s Western critics would have done anything differently had the tables been turned.

PARANORMAL (exist, no): Unaided human perception is known to be very, very limited. There’s little reason to believe that technology, as much as it has expanded our perception, has shown us everything.

POLITICAL IDEOLOGY (conservative, liberal, other) On average probably libertarian.

TAXES (more, less): Defends on the situation. The economy is expanded by reducing taxes. So certainly less is good sometimes.

USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK (accidental, intentional): Accidental. Poor situational awareness and overzealous Israeli defense. Other issues on the American side.

WAR ON TERROR (defensible, overboard): Defensible, though if people hadn’t have been pretending the world was full of roses and peaches back in the 90’s much of this would not be necessary today.

WAR IRAQ (necessary, contrived): Necessary, but too much humanitarian effort too early undermined our military accomplishments, and too much media bias and too little public engagement by the Bush administration has undermined our humanitarian accomplishments.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:45 AM

MAL4PREZ

ABORTION - prochoice
AL-QAEDA THREAT - exaggerated
BUSH - con, so very con. And I did try to have an open mind, but he's terrible
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT - con
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS - pancake, this demolition thing is silly. There's lots of other untruths behind 9/11, and arguing demolition is just a waste!
CROP CIRCLES - I don't have enough info to say
ETs - they definitely exist somewhere, not near here though
GOD - atheist
GLOBAL WARMING - not enough info to decide, although we're absolute idiots not to be taking preventice action.
GUN CONTROL - pro. Why is getting a gun easier than driving a car?
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS - Wayyyyyy overboard!! Ridiculous.
PARANORMAL - I doubt it, but you never know.
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY - liberal
TAXES - the top issue is to use the money better, ie, for imporving ourselves and not for attacking others!
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK - I don't know enough
WAR ON TERROR - overboard and falsified. It's more about getting oil.
WAR IRAQ - contrived, completely!! The first thing Dubya said after 9/11 (after a lot of vacant staring) was - dust off the Iraq attack plans, we're going after Saddam.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 5:35 AM

AGENTROUKA

ABORTION: pro-choice
AL-QAEDA THREAT: real but politically exploited
BUSH: con
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT: con
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS: pancake
CROP CIRCLES: no opinion
ETs: somewhere definitely
GOD: agnostic
GLOBAL WARMING: mostly manmade
GUN CONTROL: pro, to an extend
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS: overboard
PARANORMAL: I'm open-minded (see agnostic)
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY: socially liberal, otherwise somewhat undecided
TAXES: entirely dependent on how I see them used, dammit
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK: Shenme?
WAR ON TERROR: ridiculous propaganda
WAR IRAQ: contrived

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:45 AM

FELLOWTRAVELER

ABORTION (prolife, prochoice): personal prolife, political prochoice
AL-QAEDA THREAT (grave and imminent, exaggerated): both[\b]
BUSH (pro, con):con
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (pro, con):con
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS (pancake, demolition, other):pancake
CROP CIRCLES (manmade, paranormal):manmade
ETs (exist, not):not like "Star Wars", but microbes and such
GOD (theist, agnostic, atheist):theist when sober, atheist when drunk
GLOBAL WARMING (manmade, not):both
GUN CONTROL (pro, con):very con
"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the Peoples' Liberty's Teeth." - George Washington
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS (defensible, overboard):understandable, but overboard
PARANORMAL (exist, no):no
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY (conservative, liberal, other): a little bit from column A, a little bit from column B
TAXES (more, less):don't care. As long as it's put to good use.
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK (accidental, intentional): intentional
WAR ON TERROR (defensible, overboard): both
WAR IRAQ (necessary, contrived):both

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:35 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

ABORTION - pro-choice. More access to birth control would be better.
AL-QAEDA THREAT - grave and imminent. Not just AQ, but terrorism in general is gonna be a problem
BUSH - Pro on most defense and security, con on "family values" stuff.
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT - pro, but applied very carefully
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS - pancake
CROP CIRCLES - probably manmade, unless it's the elves and faeries
ETs - Who knows?
GOD - Who knows?
GLOBAL WARMING - Some of both manmade and natural.
GUN CONTROL - Con, very
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS - Not very smart recently
PARANORMAL - Who knows?
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY - rightist libertarian(?)
TAXES - Better enforcement and less loopholes (Doesn't really go with "libertarian", but until the revolution bills gotta be paid.)
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK - accidental, based on the Israeli rules of engagement: If it ain't Israeli and you don't know what it is, shoot it.
WAR ON TERROR - defensible. There are people out there who want to hurt us. Regardless of their historical reasons, I don't want them to suceed
WAR IRAQ (necessary, contrived?): Don't really care anymore. I'd feel bad if we dumped the entire country like we did the Shia after Gulf War I.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Hey, nice thread!

ABORTION: very pro-choice thru the first 4 mos. Would prefer to see better birth control tho.

AL-QAEDA THREAT: And all terrorists. Grave? Yes. As serious as overpopulation or global warming? No. Imminent? Who knows? Not worth curtailing civil liberties since can be done under FISA.

BUSH: Con.
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT: Used to be con, then pro, now I'm con again. There are way too many sleazy prosecutors and far too mistaken verdicts to be comfortable with the whole idea of putting someone to death. And besides, it doesn't do any good.

COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS: pancake

CROP CIRCLES: Far as I know, manmade. And a waste of food, too.

ETs: Of course they exist, just not here.

GOD: Against religion.

GLOBAL WARMING: Prolly manmade.

GUN CONTROL: For gun registration.

ISRAELI WAR TACTICS: Stupid

PARANORMAL: Exists. But altho there's a lot we don't underdstand that doesn't make it "para" anything.

POLITICAL IDEOLOGY: Dunno! Not a liberal, not a conservative, and not a libertarian.

TAXES: More for the corporations and the rich, less for everyone else.

USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK: Don't know.

WAR ON TERROR: Poor premise. It's being handled like a War on Poor People or a War on Druggies. But to the extent that one can fight a tactic, it's terribly misdirected, more like a war on liberty.

WAR IRAQ: Contrived.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:39 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by ONLYFOUR:
As a long-time lurker (maybe a year or so) and an avid fan of Firefly and this particular board (RWE) I find it odd that this will be my first post (or nearly so), but I will bite

Thank you, Onlyfour. I feel honored that you would choose my thread to delurk. Like a talkshow host who just booked a cool guest.

And Frem, you CRACK ME UP. Where d'you get that sense of humor?

Thanks everyone for chipping in. It's been really fascinating. Issues I thought would usually go together don't really. Like crop circles and ET, or Israel and USS Liberty, or taxes and political ideology.

And where are the rest of the RWE regulars? Citizen, Hero, Rue, SignyM, Auraptor, HKCavalier.....where are you guys?

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Cross-posting with you, that's where!!!

And I say again- Cool thread!

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:00 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
And I say again- Cool thread!

Thanks, and good to see ya. I was curious to see where you stood on some of that other stuff. Surprised to see your response on ETs. You just don't really know a person til you get their response to ETs.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:15 AM

HERO

ABORTION (prolife, prochoice): Pro-life...not pro death like anyone who isn't pro life.

AL-QAEDA THREAT (grave and imminent, exaggerated): The most serious threat we've faced since the commies in Russia went belly up.

BUSH (pro, con): Bush is very much a pro...so I am very much pro Bush.

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (pro, con): Always good for a laugh and definately cuts down on repeat offenders.

COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS (pancake, demolition, other): I say they were intentionally collapsed by a conspiracy of Middle Eastern types who made use of a couple jet liners full of fuel.

CROP CIRCLES (manmade, paranormal): Manmade, but definately wierd. Some are quite artistic. I think the aliens are all amused.

ETs (exist, not): They don't exist...I work for the government, trust me, no aliens (except the ones from Mexico...although were they come from before they arrive in Mexico is open speculation.)

GOD (theist, agnostic, atheist): I know two things on this subject with absolute certainty: There is a God, I aint him.

GLOBAL WARMING (manmade, not): Happens every year in the spring...

GUN CONTROL (pro, con): If by control you mean no guns, then con...if you mean being sure of what your shooting at, then pro.

ISRAELI WAR TACTICS (defensible, overboard): Not enough, so not defensible. They should have launched a massive invasion and occupied Beirut, like they did before.

PARANORMAL (exist, no): Not a ghost of a chance.

POLITICAL IDEOLOGY (conservative, liberal, other) Conservative (I believe in liberty, apple pie, and kickin ass)

TAXES (more, less): Less, especially on payday

USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK (accidental, intentional): They intentionally fired the weapon, but the attack was unsanctioned and accidental.

WAR ON TERROR (defensible, overboard): Not enough, but the Democrats and the French are a bunch of obstructionist pansies.

WAR IRAQ (necessary, contrived): I think Saddam used every means in his power to contive the war. Had he left the country or surrendered to justice, the invasion would not have been necessary.

H

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:15 AM

HERO

Dbl Post...hit wrong fracking button...

H

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:26 AM

MISBEHAVEN

ABORTION (prolife, prochoice): Prochoice. I think this an ethical question that should be decided on a personal level, not a political one. Politicians simply exploit the issue.

AL-QAEDA THREAT (grave and imminent, exaggerated): I think it's definitely exaggerated.

BUSH (pro, con): Con.

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (pro, con): Con.

COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS (pancake, demolition): I'm going to go with pancake, because the alternative is too horrible to even contemplate.

CROP CIRCLES (manmade, paranormal): I think most are manmade, but some aren't so easily explained.

ETs (exist, not): I tend to be a skeptic when it comes to aliens as well.

GOD / RELIGION (theist, agnostic, atheist): Atheist

GLOBAL WARMING (manmade, not): I think weather follows cyclical patterns, but pollution is likely exacerbating the situation. Regardless, we need to be doing more with alternative energy, and cleaning up and protecting the environment. To me that just seems like common sense.

GUN CONTROL (pro, con): Pro. When it takes you less time to purchase a gun than it does to obtain the driver's license you need to supposedy make that purchase, then something is wrong.

ISRAELI WAR TACTICS (defensible, overboard): The word overkill definitely comes to mind. I'm not sure they have reason to be critical of terrorists given the way they targeted civilians. And last time I checked, the intentional targeting of civilians is a war crime according to the Geneva Conventions.

PARANORMAL (exist, no): Not yet convinced here either.

POLITICAL IDEOLOGY (conservative, liberal, other): I tend to think of myself as a Libertarian with liberal leanings.

TAXES (more, less): Abolishing them would be nice, but I'd settle for a siginificant reduction.

USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK (accidental, intentional): Not sure what Israel's motivation would be for attacking their biggest giver of foreign aid, the primary supplier of their military, and their closest ally, so I would tend to think it was accidental.

WAR ON TERROR (defensible, overboard): It's as unnecessary and unwinnable as the War on Drugs.

WAR IRAQ (necessary, contrived): Totally contrived. The only people the Iraq War has benefited are those who are financially profiting from it. And the Bush administration is so inept that if North Korea attacks, they'll probably invade Taiwan.

"The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation."
-Bertrand Russell

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:07 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Where d'you get that sense of humor?

Meh, I was born a 'crochety old bastard' muchlike Dennis Leary, whom I suspect has GOT to be related to me somehow, given style and philosophy.

He supremely rocked as Edgar Friendly in Demolition Man (damn scary movie given how we're moving in that direction, innit?)

-Frem

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:08 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

ABORTION - My support for abortion wanes year by year. Still think it's the woman's choice, but I'm having a hard time justifying such a 'choice' after the 1st trimester.
AL-QAEDA THREAT - It's worse than you know. It really is.
BUSH - pro. for lack of anything better.
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT - pro. Why should the animals who murdered James Byrd live ? They shouldn't.
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS - A none issue. 2 767's did what we saw them do. It's just that simple.
CROP CIRCLES - manmade, no question about it.
ETs - exist, but not in our neighborhood. Not at present.
GOD / RELIGION - Skeptic. Call me an atheist, if that makes you feel better.
GLOBAL WARMING - nautral variation of the planet. Man's roll in this is minimal, if at all.
GUN CONTROL - Don't own 'em, but a foundation of our freedoms. very pro
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS - didn't go far enough. Not even close.
PARANORMAL - Much about the Cosmos we don't know. But no paranormal here. James Randi explains it all.
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY - Conservative Libertarian
TAXES - necessary, but there needs to be a HUGE reduction. Fed Gov't takes too much $$ and does far too little.
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK - accident. Fog of war. Tragic.
WAR ON TERROR - wrongly named. Should be war on 'Islamo-fascism'.
WAR IRAQ - We were left w/ no other options. Post war chaos was poorly controled.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:03 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
He supremely rocked as Edgar Friendly in Demolition Man (damn scary movie given how we're moving in that direction, innit?)

The movie wasn't all that great, but Edgar Friendly has got to one of my favorite characters of all time. LOVE him. Denis Leary is just awesome.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:15 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

CTS - I'm just kinda hammered* at work here.

I hope to post soon!

* UUHHhhmmm, maybe slammed would be a beter word

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:51 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

runs up panting ...
Am I too late?
Here's mine ...

--------------------------------
ABORTION prochoice

AL-QAEDA THREAT modest threat

BUSH I'm the progrssive, he's the con

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT con, but not for the usual reasons

COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS on the fence

CROP CIRCLES on the fence

ETs probably out there, but not here yet

GOD / RELIGION agnostic

GLOBAL WARMING manmade

GUN CONTROL pro but not for the usual reasons

ISRAELI WAR TACTICS terrorist

PARANORMAL on the fence

POLITICAL IDEOLOGY ???

TAXES more progressive

USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK no clue

WAR ON TERROR as currently waged, propaganda

WAR IRAQ yeah, crazy

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:19 PM

RIGHTEOUS9

Abortion - Pro choice, and pro contraception. A fetus is not a child. it is a potential child. The loss of such potential is sad, and should not and is not taken lightly, but should not be a matter intruded upon by government. It is simply not murder.

Al_Qaeda Terror threat - Exxagerated and yet so
very real, and realer by the day as this administration makes enemies of the entire world.

Bush - He's a con

Capital Punishment - There is no earthly use for
it. Sets an example that when you are wronged you should use lethal force to handle it. You think that's lost on our impressionable youth?
Doesn't prevent crime, because jail is usually enough to deter anybody - Most people just don't plan on getting caught.

Collapse of the two towers = other - my pet goat ate the cia warning which stated "Bin Laden determined to Attack U.S. "

Crop Circles - manmade

ET's - Big universe - so big they probably exist and we will probably never see any.

GOD - Agnostic - No reason to believe in a God, no definative proof that there is no deity.

Global Warming - Could be both - Man's role is the one we should be chiefly concerned with, because its one we can affect.

Gun Control - Misuse of guns is a symptom of other problems, and I'm inclined to respect all of the bill of rights. Gun control is at best a bandaid.

Israeli War Tactics - Counter productive - inciting and damning to themselves in the long run.

Paranormal - Can't rule it out - but I haven't seen anything that has convinced me either.

Political ideaology - Liberal fits it pretty well, but its a word with different definitions depending on who you ask. My sense of the word is positive, obviously.

Taxes - Currently unbalanced. Brackets shouldn't cap so early - if the rich paid more they would still be very rich. Too much burden is on the middle class though.

U.S.S Liberty Attack - not sure of the politcal climate at the time. I can't venture an educated guess.

War On Terror - Overboard, yet inept. Putting radio hosts and senators on no-fly lists is a sign of a broken system of harassment, not of finding terrorists.

WAR IN IRAQ - Contrived...I didn't know there was still an argument floating that it wasn't contrived...just that it was still a good thing. In my opinion, that argument is also lame.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:25 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Hey, Rue, never too late. I am amazed. We agree on more than I thought we would.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:38 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I noticed! And I liked the way you put your opinions, you hit the nail on the head.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:46 PM

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN

ABORTION pro-choice
AL-QAEDA THREAT a true threat but not as bad as "they" say
BUSH con
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT pro
COLLAPSE WTC TOWERS other
CROP CIRCLES the jury's still out on this one
ETs exist but maybe not intelligent or we'll never see them
GOD theist
GLOBAL WARMING manmade (this current round anyway)
GUN CONTROL con
ISRAELI WAR TACTICS defensible at first then overboard
PARANORMAL possible
POLITICAL IDEOLOGY fiscal conservative, social liberal, with libertarian leanings
TAXES more for the rich, less for the poor
USS LIBERTY 1967 ATTACK honestly don't know
WAR ON TERROR overboard
WAR IRAQ contrived

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

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