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Originally posted by SignyM:
An embarassing 11/20- just barely above random chance.

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Originally posted by yinyang:
13 out of 20 - and I don't even know who Jerry or Pat are. Should I be happy about that?

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"What the world needs now is love, sweet love - it's the only thing that there's just too little of. What the world needs now is love, sweet love. No, not just for some, but for everyone."

Trouble-Maker in the House!

http://richlabonte.net/tvvote]

Yes. Be very, very happy


----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Originally posted by citizen:
I can't tell the difference, save some are good Religious lunatics and some are bad religious lunatics, what do I win?

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
]


Yes... Jerry and Pat are as bad as they come

" Fighting them at their own game
Murder for freedom the stab in the back
Women and children and cowards attack

Run to the hills run for your lives "

http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/ironmaiden/liveafterdeath.html#12

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Yes... Jerry and Pat are as bad as they come

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Originally posted by citizen:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Yes... Jerry and Pat are as bad as they come

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I mean two are acceptable religious lunatics who are to be given a voice and allowed to try and spread theocracies. The other is to be bombed.

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
]


Bomb them all



" Fighting them at their own game
Murder for freedom the stab in the back
Women and children and cowards attack

Run to the hills run for your lives "

http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/ironmaiden/liveafterdeath.html#12

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Bomb them all

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since the bible does not inspire such behavior or sentiment,

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Originally posted by antimason:
and when athiests blow stuff up... well their exempt, because only religious people are murderes

i know your take Citizen

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show me where i said muslims are evil?? please..quote me! you cant do it.. because I NEVER SAID SUCH A THING

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you dont care about any of that, you are content with your own divisive bigoted opinion

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once again you are confusing peoples personal opinions, with doctrines actually preached by JESUS in the bible

show me where JESUS, the BASIS OF CHRISTIANITY, is in league with the neo cons... show me the similarities?

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until you do, understand that murder and conquest and lies are DISCOURAGED BY JESUS... hnece that well known commandment "thou shalt not kill"!

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occultism is to woship idols(money, power, possessions), fallen angels(gods), or a false christ(satan, NOT JESUS).. all of which encompass actions that do not align with Gods will, wich is ALL LOVING

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"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Mahatma Gandhi

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Originally posted by citizen:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Yes... Jerry and Pat are as bad as they come

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I mean two are acceptable religious lunatics who are to be given a voice and allowed to try and spread theocracies. The other is to be bombed.

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Originally posted by kaneman:
I mean one tries to spread his theocracy with mass murder and the other two try with ridiculous bible blabber. Who is worse? Dunno? You can't be equating these. Or can you be? I wouldn't put it past you to trivialize mass murder just because you hate religion.

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Originally posted by kaneman:

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Originally posted by citizen:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Yes... Jerry and Pat are as bad as they come

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I mean two are acceptable religious lunatics who are to be given a voice and allowed to try and spread theocracies. The other is to be bombed.

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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I mean one tries to spread his theocracy with mass murder and the other two try with ridiculous bible blabber. Who is worse? Dunno? You can't be equating these. Or can you be? I wouldn't put it past you to trivialize mass murder just because you hate religion.

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Originally posted by antimason:
this is why i hang around this board..

i guess i could dig up some secular quotes where it was proposed that we should blow Iraq and Islam to hell..but what good would that do? individuals say and do what they please, religious or not

since many of you are not true-to-the-heart christians, therefore have not relentlessly studied the bible, nor given any consideration to occult perversions, i dont expect you all to know what Jesus Christs true message is, and what are perversions...

but at the same time, it would help if you all didnt take (ironically)as gospel, such bigoted opinions, and then associate them with Jesus and christianity, since the bible does not inspire such behavior or sentiment, and many christians such as myself KNOW FULL WELL THAT THIS IS AN OCCULT CONSPIRACY TO BRING UPON THE ANTICHRISTS GLOBAL GOVERNMENT-therefore we RESIST THIS TYPE OF PROPOGANDA AND HATEFUL RHETORIC, and avoid the divisive polarization of public opinion towards anyone.. christians, liberals, muslims or whoever it may be

when you condescendingly marginalize christianity, you then inherently marginalize the root problem which is the occult, and its influence through institutions who are the real perpetrators of this fascist global government agenda; such as the FED, the CFR and their political members and affiliates

ive said before the GOAL is a NWO, the global government of ANTICHRIST, and 9/11 was an inside job to initiate this agenda, using America as the engine. anyone, including christians, who believe the establishment view of history(like 9/11) are unwitting pawns and accomplices to this agenda, because unless you expose this for what it is, you inadvertantly take part in its fullfillment.. but it is not solely christians... ANYONE who supports the official view of 9/11 is being decieved by an occult conspiracy

this is why you all need to recognize America for what she is; the statue of liberty, the all seeing eye, the fasces, the pentagons and pentagrams.. it is all masonic occult symbolism which alludes to the luciferian fascist conspiracy that is curretnly decieving the whole world!

i beg you to consider what i am saying to you..because the symbolism and documentation is right in front of your faces. you can deny whether God truly exists, but understand that the OCCULT does exist, and they control the world through the central banks.

heres a documentary on the 9/11 lie, and its occult facets of orchestration
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6495462761605341661&q=alex%2B
jones%2Bmartial%2Blaw&pl=true

is the UK predominatly Christian? then why are they also behind America, and in many ways further along with this police state agenda? this is happening universally, irrespective of personal belief

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Originally posted by Sassalicious:

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Originally posted by kaneman:

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Originally posted by citizen:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Yes... Jerry and Pat are as bad as they come

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I mean two are acceptable religious lunatics who are to be given a voice and allowed to try and spread theocracies. The other is to be bombed.

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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I mean one tries to spread his theocracy with mass murder and the other two try with ridiculous bible blabber. Who is worse? Dunno? You can't be equating these. Or can you be? I wouldn't put it past you to trivialize mass murder just because you hate religion.

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I don't think Osama tries to "spread his theocracy" with mass murder. He wasn't trying to convert the non-Muslim U.S. population to Islam when his organization flew planes into the towers. All 3 are modern religious zealots, using their interpretation of a holy book NOT written by any god to justify hatred, violence, oppression, and ignorance.

They are all three equally atrocious.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wisconsin sucks. I don't want to be here.

~Forsaken Forever

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Originally posted by Sassalicious:

I don't think Osama tries to "spread his theocracy" with mass murder. He wasn't trying to convert the non-Muslim U.S. population to Islam when his organization flew planes into the towers. All 3 are modern religious zealots, using their interpretation of a holy book NOT written by any god to justify hatred, violence, oppression, and ignorance.

They are all three equally atrocious.

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Originally posted by kaneman:

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Originally posted by Sassalicious:

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Originally posted by kaneman:

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Originally posted by citizen:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Yes... Jerry and Pat are as bad as they come

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I mean two are acceptable religious lunatics who are to be given a voice and allowed to try and spread theocracies. The other is to be bombed.

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

---

I mean one tries to spread his theocracy with mass murder and the other two try with ridiculous bible blabber. Who is worse? Dunno? You can't be equating these. Or can you be? I wouldn't put it past you to trivialize mass murder just because you hate religion.

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I don't think Osama tries to "spread his theocracy" with mass murder. He wasn't trying to convert the non-Muslim U.S. population to Islam when his organization flew planes into the towers. All 3 are modern religious zealots, using their interpretation of a holy book NOT written by any god to justify hatred, violence, oppression, and ignorance.

They are all three equally atrocious.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wisconsin sucks. I don't want to be here.

~Forsaken Forever

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Sass, he has told America to convert or die after 9-11. That sounds like spreading his religion by the threat of murder to me. And the other two babbling on about the bible and Adam and Eve are not nearly as atrocious as OBL, clearly you must see that. Or is someone having a religious based opinion, different than your own, really that scary and atrocious to you as mass murder?

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Originally posted by Sassalicious:

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Originally posted by kaneman:

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Originally posted by Sassalicious:

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Originally posted by kaneman:

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Originally posted by citizen:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Yes... Jerry and Pat are as bad as they come

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I mean two are acceptable religious lunatics who are to be given a voice and allowed to try and spread theocracies. The other is to be bombed.

---

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
]

I mean one tries to spread his theocracy with mass murder and the other two try with ridiculous bible blabber. Who is worse? Dunno? You can't be equating these. Or can you be? I wouldn't put it past you to trivialize mass murder just because you hate religion.

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I don't think Osama tries to "spread his theocracy" with mass murder. He wasn't trying to convert the non-Muslim U.S. population to Islam when his organization flew planes into the towers. All 3 are modern religious zealots, using their interpretation of a holy book NOT written by any god to justify hatred, violence, oppression, and ignorance.

They are all three equally atrocious.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wisconsin sucks. I don't want to be here.

~Forsaken Forever

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Sass, he has told America to convert or die after 9-11. That sounds like spreading his religion by the threat of murder to me. And the other two babbling on about the bible and Adam and Eve are not nearly as atrocious as OBL, clearly you must see that. Or is someone having a religious based opinion, different than your own, really that scary and atrocious to you as mass murder?

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Where did he say that because I never heard anything about it. I don't care if someone has a religiously based opinion different than mine. I tend to believe that ANY organized religion is just a tool of some sort and that majority of influential religious people would rather control people than perpetuate the "true message". There is a difference between spirituality and religion. What I do care about is when someone's religiously based motives are being used to direct policy that affects people who don't share their same views. Whether or not mass murder is involved is irrelevant to ME. I find Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell equally threatening as Osama bin Laden, but perhaps in different ways. In short form, they could be considered a form of domestic terrorism.

The "War on Terrorism" is theoretically a response to 9/11. It's since become a "War on everyone possibly threatening to the U.S. and we're going to attack them under the premise of WMDs . . . wait, s*** they don't have any . . . uh let's make it humanitarian, yeah". However, in my opinion, the reality is the Red Scare all over again. If one reads a variety of books about the Vietnam War (particurly post-French war, just prior to U.S. one), one can substitute "terrorist" for "communist" and "Middle East" for "IndoChina" and read the same things we read and hear now. Same basic drama, different time period.

Furthermore, would Osama/Middle Eastern terrorists have as much against the U.S. if we didn't continually support Zionism? It seems that we have a bad habit of arming and training our own future enemies.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wisconsin sucks. I don't want to be here.

~Forsaken Forever

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Just google it.. there are many...here is the top one
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/09/02/zawahiri.tape/index.html
I think your idea that Robertson or any other religious kooks being domestic terrorists is a little unfounded. Osama on the other hand is a terrorist and a mass murderer. How can they be equally threatening in "different ways"? Don't worry so much about Bush's religiously based motives...he will be gone soon enough. We will have a new prez and they will still hate us. Didn't they bomb the Trade centers under Clinton? The USS Cole? Foreign embassies? Go figure......

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Originally posted by antimason:
im not excusing any christian who blatantly sins..but why make the distinction of "christian" with the negative connotation.. when all human beings have been murderes and lyers throughout history? i think thats a double standard, because no one ever has anything to say about the athiest population, myself included.. because i have no factual bases to make such assumptions; but christians and other religions are fair game; i think thats hypocritical

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Originally posted by citizen:
If Christianity or any other religion is being used to bring about violence yes. Do you think someone would just randomly bomb an abortion clinic? Why can't we say that is a Christian motivated attack if it is motivated by someone wanting to enforce the Bibles morality on someone else?

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The thing about organised religion is not that it creates the human desire to commit acts of violence, it's that it legitimises it, gives it scope, even makes it a good thing.

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It's that it can be used as a tool by the unscrupulous to push otherwise normal people to commit terrible acts because those terrible acts are a good thing as legitimised in religious work X.

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It's the nature of faith that makes it pretty much the only thing that can be used in this manner. And its the nature of organised religion and how it directs faith that makes it such a glorious tool.

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But if you think that it's some shadowy NWO Occult conspiracy behind the perversion of Christianity or any other religion you're sadly mistaken.

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A good deal of violence is dished out based on what is said in the Bible. If the Bible and other religious works could have their contradictions (such as "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" and "Turn the other cheek") removed, in the previous example taking away the eye for an eye bit, we'd see a lot less violence in the world.

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Of course these contradictions can not be cleared up, these holy books can not be reworked, and these holy religions can not be questioned, even in the light of a changing world.

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Therein lies the problem. The Bible and other religious works represent the morals of a world where saying Yahweh was a crime punishable by an excruciating death. These books teach these morals by virtue of that being what they were written to do. That was fine back then, but we no longer live in that world and these books have not and can not change to reflect that.

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These morals are unacceptable now, but they are still a core part of these ancient works, but by the nature of faith and organised religion this discrepancy can not be removed. Therein lies a problem.

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Originally posted by antimason:
i acknowledge your point. my thing is.. i could not justify bombing an abortion clinic, or anything even remotely closed to an act of agression..since that behavior is inherintly antithetical to my personal knowledge of the message of scripture, being unconditional love; which is why i question such an individuals true motivation, since it is clearly not christ-like. it should be more correctly likened to the pharisees, who were exposed time and again as hyprocrites, who only honored God with their lips, and not their actions, ultimately hurting their people while leading them astray as 'false teachers'.

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Jesus says "if you hold to my teaching, you are REALLY MY DISCIPLES...

the NT is full of such quotes.. which is why Jesus emphasises, strictly, that only those who do his will, of peace, are his true disciples..otherwise anyone could claim to be christian

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Jesus says "do not judge, and you will not be judged. do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. forgive, and you will be forgiven." surely, atleast you recognize that people who do otherwise are not actually following Jesus' example?

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i dont believe there are any examples in the NT that legitimise or excuse or condone violent or negligent behavior, but if you know of some then please show me the verses so that i may study them.

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the OT is something else entirely..but is also a great deal more complicated;

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ok, but how are they more susceptible then anyone else, when they are supposed to be following Jesus' commands?

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i cant argue with that.. but lets break this down; what are the motives in such an instance? whether it be conquest, or genocide or money, they are all selfish acts which Jesus says to resist. i dont know why someone would claim to be a follower of Jesus, yet disregard his most important commandments.. why is that person a christian then? this is why it is important to expose occult perversions, because scripturally there is no bases for such behavior.

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well what do you think, that christians are seeking to establish a global theocracy? according to scripture, such a global government would be the occult empire of ANTIchrist, which we want nothing to do with and are fighting agianst!

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“European mysticism was not dead at the time the United States of America was founded. The hand of the mysteries controlled in the establishment of the new government for the signature of the mysteries may still be seen on the Great Seal of the United states of America. Careful analysis of the seal discloses a mass of occult and masonic symbols chief among them, the so-called American Eagle. ... the American eagle upon the Great Seal is but a conventionalised phoenix ...”

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now how is this not hypocritical? i constanly hear 'im fine as long as you dont force your belief on me', but if we dont accept your view, we are ignorant and stubbornly attached to antiquated concepts.

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someone who does not believe in God ultimately is the God of his own conscience.. so why is my God any more evil then yours.. arent all human beings imperfect?

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then why is an athiests worldview never scrutinized when they commit a crime?

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we have a God considered perfect, a likeness which we strive for.. yet only we are fit to stereotype, why is that?

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i resent the implications that we are narrow minded aswell.. since atleast christianity takes into consideration the 'god' myths of the greeks, sumerians, babylonians and others.. something modern science discounts as fantasy, despite the universality of the myths and astounding techniques employed by the ancients.

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the contradictions, that people point to, occur between the OT and NT; and rightly so, because their is a difference between Judiasm, and christianity... Jesus' teachings were the fullfillment of the law, it was another phase of Gods message meant to clarify diceptions which had arose through the leaders and pharisees. JEsus came to establish a new covenant, a spirituality based on his direct word... which the early Jews did not have. like i mentioned earlier, the Jews murdered every one of their prophets from GOd, including the son of God, and developed an institutional herecy that threatened to obscure and pervert Gods truths; we do not base our faith on the rituals and traditions of the babylonian heretical jews, which are documented in the bible, but on the messages of JESUS CHRIST

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what is the alternative, which in your mind would 'solve the problem'? if globally, we all adopted Evolution as a worldview, then instead of a theocracy you would get a scientific dictatorship,

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because you are not solving the issues of mans sinful nature, but abolishing tools neccessary to restrain it.

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politicians and world leaders would just seize on these new concepts to control people, because athiests are not different then believers in this respect

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'Both Marx and Hitler have their philosophical roots in Hegel' (Sutton, 118). It is here that one arrives at the Hegelian nexus where Darwin, Marx, and Hitler intersect. Recall that Nietzsche-ism, Darwinism and Marxism were all mentioned together in the Protocols of the Wise Men of Sion. This was no accident. Nazism (a variant of fascism) sprung from Nietzsche-ism (Carr, XIV). Communism sprung from Marxism. Both were based upon Hegelian principles. Moreover, both were 'scientific dictatorships' legitimized by the 'science' of Darwinism."

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“However, Fascism or Marxism, right wing or left - all these are only ideological roads that lead to Aldous Huxley's brave new world [i.e. scientific dictatorship], while the foundation for each of these roads is Darwin's theory of evolution. Fascism is aligned with biological determinism and tends to emphasize the unequal struggle by which those inherently fittest shall rule. Marxism stresses social progress by stages of revolution, while at the same time it paradoxically emphasizes peace and equality. There should be no illusions; Hitler borrowed from Marx. The result is that both Fascism and Marxism finish at the same destiny - totalitarian rule by the elite.” (Taylor, 411)

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The interest of both Hitler and Marx in Darwinian evolution is a matter of history. While he was living in London, Karl Marx attended lectures on evolutionary theory delivered by T.H. Huxley. Recognizing the odd synchronicity between the communist concept of class war and the Darwinian principle of natural selection, Marx sent Darwin a copy of Das Kapital in 1873. Enamored of evolution, Marx asked Darwin the permission to dedicate his next volume to him six year later. Troubled by the fact that it would upset certain members of his family to have the name of Darwin associated with an atheistic polemic, Charles politely declined the offer (Taylor, 381).

Numerous authors have established firm connections between Darwinism and Hitler's Nazism. Darwinian Arthur Keith documented the strong links between Hitler's racialist goals and the doctrine of evolution (Taylor, 409). In fact, in Evolution and Ethics, Keith candidly stated: 'The German Fuhrer as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution' (Keith, Evolution and Ethics, 230).

In an analysis of Mein Kampf, contemporary author Werner Maser reveals that Darwin was the crucible for Hitler's 'notions of biology, worship, force, and struggle, and of his rejection of moral causality in history.' Finally, researcher Alfred Kelly provides a comprehensive history of Darwinism's popularization in Germany (Taylor, 409).

Returning to the Hegelian nexus that binds Darwinism, Marxism, and Nazism, both the fascist and communist 'scientific dictatorships' represented tangible enactments of the dialectical framework resident in evolutionary theory. Marx was greatly influenced by Hegel (Taylor, 381). The concept of class struggle, which paralleled Darwinian natural selection, resulted from Marx's redirection of the Hegelian dialectic towards the socioeconomic realm. The proletariat (thesis) comes into conflict with the bourgeois (antithesis), resulting in a classless Utopia (synthesis). Marx, however, rejected the concept of a world spirit and relocated the revolution's causal source within the proletariat itself.

The same Hegelian framework was resident within Hitler's genocidal Final Solution. The German people (thesis) came into conflict with the Jew (antithesis) in hopes of creating the Aryan (synthesis). In both the case of communism and Nazism, the results were enormous bloodbaths. This is the natural consequence of Darwinian thinking and the legacy of the 'scientific dictatorship.'

In applying the ideas of Darwin, both communists and fascists have murdered millions. Both of these groups find their origins in the elite (the Illuminati), who are still pursuing the same objectives today. According to the Darwinian mantra of 'survival of the fittest,' victory will demand bloodshed. Humanity may stand to inherit the 'scientific dictatorship's' bloody legacy in the very near future.

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http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Ascendancy2.htm

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Originally posted by antimason:
ok... youre right Citizen, the bible is evil, and christians, jews, and muslims are evil

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its funny... when youre a theist, any action is assumed inseperable from your worldview; every consequence being the result of a premeditated religious cause

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sure its a double standard... but equality is only relative right? like truth?

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but if your an athiest, there are absolutely no guidelines... infact, you can do anything, and your worldview will never be scrutinized; A never leads to B

if your a theist.. its religiously motivated

if your an athiest.. it is an individual mistake

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basically murder, greed, envy, adultery, lying, stealing... these are exclusively theistic traits, performed by religious people

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no athiest would ever committ such "sins", nor has an athiest ever committed such "sins", since its clear that only religion(not the lack thereof) causes destruction

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athiesm is benevolent; atheists are Gods, as they are perfect human beings who share none of the same character faults as the lesser, subhuman theists..

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if an athiest commits a crime.. he was probably conditioned by ' a church'

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am i right?

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i mean... a religious persons worldview leads us to murder and crime

meanwhile your worldview, being whatever you wish, is infallable, inherintly perfect and void of all human imperfections

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you constatly say that its our worldview that causes inequality and divisiness.... but meanwhile you look down upon us, condescendingly, only to suceed in purpetuating your own set of indifference and intolerance

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your world view is no better then ours, since you too are imperfect,and you too perpetuate your imperfections

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what solution do you have to change human nature? your singling yourself out as more intelligent, more ethical as atheists,

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is a self righteous act of judgement; something the bible actually condemns

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all human beings CITIZEN have these sinful desires, no one is perfect, so who are you to hold yourself as more righteous then we?

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what do you contribute but un-needed degredation and division?

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Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler.. i suppose they were theists aswell? afterall, only religiously motivated people are criminals right?

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Originally posted by citizen:
Don't try and feign insult in order to win the argument by default. It doesn't wash. I never said that, you asked me to back up my claims that those who perpetrate violence in the name of religion find the justification and are also sometimes driven to it by religion, I did so.

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Don't throw a temper tantrum because I supplied evidence of the call for violence in the NT which you've decided is the most perfect example of altruism. You asked me to provide that for crying out loud.

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You're continuing your logical fallacy here, namely Appeal to emotion. I didn't say this, I said if a Christian commits a crime it doesn't make it a Christian crime, unless Christianity was the motivating factor.

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I'm sure if an Atheist blew up a Christian Church because "there is no god" you'd be the first to denounce all Atheist and point out that it was an "Atheism motivated crime".

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Adversely if a Christian blows up an abortion clinic because "God said they are evil" then that's just the influence of the occult or the actions of one lone "sinner".

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"sure its a double standard... but equality is only relative right? like truth?"

This sums up you're thoughts rather well.

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Maybe you can clear something up for me. Why is it that Christians and others have such a hard time getting the simple concept that not everything is a religion? You equate Atheism to Christianity as if they are both doctrines of faith, and although Atheism could be said to be a belief it is not an organised religion or even organised by any stretch of the imagination.

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You don't even read what I write do you? I stated quite clearly that a crime by a theist is only religiously motivated if its motivated by religion. How can you say the bombing of an abortion clinic because "God says they're evil" isn't motivated by Christianity?

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How can you say that someone brought up their entire life with the Christian doctrines that homosexuals deserve to die (see above) who then goes out and kills homosexuals isn't motivated by Christianity? You can't, but you do, that's your hypocrisy.

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Strangely enough it would be rather difficult to find a crime or circumstance where Atheism was a driving motivator. What's Christianity? It's a collection of hundreds of beliefs and doctrines, ranging from "their is a God" to "God has a son" and including things like "love thy neighbour" and "Kill Homosexuals". What's Atheism? It's the label used to group Atheist, who have one and only one uniting belief, that "there is no God".

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You position appears to be that Christianity is innocent, no matter what, someone kills a homosexual based on entries in the Bible, well you know what brother it has nothing to do with the Bible. That's crap.

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In order to win the debate you attempt to paint my position as the polar opposite, namely all crimes committed by Christians are Christian motivated, this is crap two fold, firstly because that position is as untrue as your own, and secondly because it isn't my position.

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This is that whole thing that if you repeat a lie loud and long enough it becomes the truth, right?

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Lets stop talking about my world-view shall we, you don't know what that is. I mean you can't even seem to workout what my position on this subject is when I've flat out told you what it is.

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The great distinction between the world-view of a Christian is that their world-view is largely fostered by Christianity, whereas the world-view of an Atheist is largely personal. Atheism isn't a doctrine of faith, that's the simple concept you seem woefully unable to grasp.

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Yes everyone I don't tolerate religious fanatics killing in the name of Christianity, Islam or any other religion. What a nasty intolerant evil person I am.

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I never said it was, but you'll never find anyone using my world view to justify holy wars or murder either.

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Condemns it? Mate you really need to read that book.

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I never said they didn't, I never said they were, and I don't. You're own biases are showing through.

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No, but I'm sure you're about to try and prove how they were all part of "evil science".

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Nazism wasn't a scientific dictatorship, I'll listen when you get a source a little bit more credible than an anti science rant from the "jumped up on prozac crazy conspiracy website". In fact, and here's some interesting facts the author of your rant missed out, Nazism had a huge Christian following, the Nazis said they were going to build a Christian empire and eradicate the Jewish scourge.

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A holy war to set up a holy empire, that sounds very scientific.

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And as for communism, well that shares more ideals and doctrines with religion than Science. Even going as far to ban 'other' religions.

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Again you make a fundamental flaw assuming Science is a religion. Science doesn't tell us how to live our lives and it is not a doctrine of faith.

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Originally posted by Antimason:
then why havent i interpreted the bible that way? maybe the bible is dangerous, to people who do not take the time to gather the collective message of scripture; otherwise sure..you can find your own personal justification if you interpret it falsely.. but that doesnt make them right. just like i could find justification to murder by the influence of violence on TV, was it TV that made me do it? its hypocritical that theists are influenced to act immoraly because of our doctrines, but athiests are not influenced by anything at all in their worldview(or lack thereof)

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yah, and you took those quotes horribly out of context.

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when JEsus talks about a 'sword', you wouldnt know he is talking about GODS WORD unless youve actually referenced the whole of scripture.

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you wouldnt understand that GOD acts just by an unseen hand, and doesnt literally come down and smite innocent people like you claim.

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OK, so admit one instance in history where an athiest commits an athiestic influenced murder? you cant! because we can only speculate what the cause and effect of an individuals actions are, and athiests have no set code of ethics by which to measure their actions; therefore

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actually i wouldnt, i would claim that every individual is responsible for his own actions.. just as the catholic preists being exposed as pedophiles are acting by their own consceince, and not inspired by scripture.

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look are you denying that to abort a living fetus is the equivelant of murder?

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this is a theological question..that being: is all life significant?

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which is exactly why a theocracy would be antichristian, because you cannot force spiritual messages in a secular material world

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actually i was being sarcastic.. GOd says truth is not relative but universal; that all beings are created equal.

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it is the occultists.. and evolutionists, who have supported the notion of superior races, survival of the fittest, social darwinism etc.

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it is a worldview, it is the foundation, or the lens with which you view reality, therefore it is a personal religion.

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what is the difference between religion and spirituality?

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if youll notice Jesus says "the body is the temple of GOd", which means that nothing is needed but the a personal commitment to God from within

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God, do be specific, doesnt say anything about abortion.. so our stance that abortion is a Sin if based on the universal acception that murder is a sin. to murder a sinner then is also a sin, so understand how these laws relate to eachother. ill concede that a christian bombing a clinic would ONLY be biblically motivated, if we can prove that NO atheists disagree with abortion. but it is not biblically justified, which is entirely different

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"what business is it of mine to judge those OUTSIDE the chruch? are you not to judge those inside? GOD WILL JUDGE THOSE OUTSIDE!" 1Cor 5:10

"so whatever you believe about these things, keep between yourself and GOd. BLESSED IS THE MAN WHO DOES NOT CONDENM HIMSELF BY WHAT HE APPROVES" Romans 14:22

"you, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgement do the same things." Romans 2

this is why it is so important what Jesus preaches, because he spoke on behalf of GOD. listen to what he says

"the teachers of the law and the pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. they made her stand before the group and said to Jesus., "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. in the Law of Moses commanded us to stone such women. NOW WHAT DO YOU SAY?.." Jesus said "if any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

this is proof of my point that Jesus created a new covenant, different from that of the babylonian heretical jews

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exactly... so ethics are determined by the individuals conscience, RELIGIOUS OR NOT! why not sleep with your fathers wife, or hate your parents, if there is no divine judgement? does that not motivate an athiest to act according to the discretion of his own conscience? then why is that never a motive??

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why would someone who believes in an eternal, just, all loving GOd then commit a murder, and feel justified? why does "thou shalt not kill" appear on the ten commandments, if it wasnt A COMMANDMENT

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look Citizen, i understand your point, that the bible can inspire religious hate. my point is, if people actually understood the scriptures, they would find that to justify such acts would be heretical!

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you think that theres a conspiracy to bring about a theocratic christian government, when the facts clearly show that it is a LUCIFERIAN agenda, which IS NOT JESUS CHRISTIAN! this has been my point all along, which is a clear contradiction to your premise

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you dont believe athiests desire a global religion based on science? because that is what is happening currently, not this fantasy christian theocracy of yours

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but the difference is that i wont tolerate secular extremism, like Marxism, which inspired communism and all the evils it was responsible for atleast i am willing to expose all types of unjustice, whereas you uncorrectly attribute all extremism towards theists

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that is such an intolerate statement, because no *sincere christian in his right mind would do so either. holy wars... we're talking about things that happened centuries ago right? actually, the catholic church was satanic in its murder and diception for conquest; and Satan WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN.

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i guess vietnam, ww1, and thousands of other conflicts throughout history were all a result of evangelical proselytizing.. and not by secular governments concocting war for control

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i have no biases... you are the one attacking christians; it is not me attacking athiests. you are telling me that we are morally inferior because we subscribe to the bible, meanwhile athiests avoid scrutiny because they have no common worldview to attribute a cause to. is that not indifferent?

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you just proved my point; christianity can be linked to unjust immorality, but not darwinism or science.. you said it yourself

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why was Hitler obsessed with these 'myths' of a superior arian race that previously existed? this concept FITS WITHIN evolution, as the bible says that all human beings were created equally. were christians decieved? yes... but were the Nazis christians? i suggest you call the next christian you meet a Nazi, and see what reaction you get

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you are so out of touch its sad. do you think the NWO conspiracy is christian? is the only agenda in the world, and it has been proven, indisputably, to be an occult agenda, as evidenced by the symbolism so proudly displayed by its initiates... but you dont seem to care that the Masons and Illuminati are Luciferians... because you want christians to be the enemy

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because to worship the state is to idolize Man as God, to hold supreme the good of the collective over that of the individual. both these concepts are stricly denied by the bible

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science suggests that only life in the physical exists;

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if that is untrue, then that is a BELIEF; you have no way of proving that life does not exist beyond the physical, therefore you are subscribing to an idealogy that holds the material world preeminent

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