Rush Limbaugh, Michael J. Fox and Parkinson's Disease by misbehaven

America loves a winner!

Quote:
I've seen the clips of Rush,

So the answer is no, you've only seen what you've been fed, and not as it was actually said. Ok. Thought so.

You can't deny what I've said, so you just make the 'beatin' the dead horse' remark. Classic.

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Some in the GOP do want to criminalize E.S.C. research, because they equate it to abortion.

It's more than abortion, it's the state mandated creation of a embryo ( read 'very small human' ) and then the state mandated destruction of that same embryo after it's medical usefulness is over. Kinda hard to miss the goulesh aspects of that situation, as seen from the Pro Life crowd. They kinda have a good point

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So according to you, the scientists researching this are liars and panderers, because they've said that it MIGHT potentially yield cures

No, not the scientist , but the political activists who are lying about the potential cures and treatments from ESCs with out admitting that Adult stem cells are proving far more successful.

Quote:
They're E.S.C's! They're not living human beings! They 're subatomic bits of goo visible only under a microscope, unlike the living, breathing people dying of these diseases. What part of that don't you understand?

No, they're huamn beings.
* embryo

Early stage of development of an organism in the egg or the uterus, during which its essential form and its organs and tissues develop. In humans, the organism is called an embryo for the first seven or eight weeks after conception, after which it is called a fetus. In mammals, the fertilized egg or zygote undergoes cleavage (cell division without cell growth) to form a hollow ball or blastocyst. During the second week following fertilization, gastrulation (cell differentiation and migration) results in the formation of three tissue types.

At least be honest about what you're dealing with here. Until you can do that, this is all a waste of time.

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So by that logic, I guess we shouldn't bother with the research at all. Yeah, that makes sense.

Amazing, your ability to see and read ONLY what you want. I never said we shouldn't do ANY research. But we must realize that ASCs are FAR MORE likely to yield benefitial results than ESCs. ( taps microphone....is this thing on ? )

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The majority of the research being done is on adult stem cells, because Bush and Co. have refused to provide federal funding for E.S.C.

Wrong. ESCs are yielding complications such as tumors. ASCs are yielding positive results. If there was such a potential for ESC, then the private market would be all over this stuff. That they aren't should tell you something.

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And you are again failing to mention that Fox also endorses Republicans who support federal funding for E.S.C. research. By the way, I don't (usually) drink, I toke

Who was it that Fox was supporting in those several ads. The Democrat candidates.

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The overwhelming consesus amongst the scientists studying E.S.C. research is that it MAY yield cures. But of course, the only way to find out is to fund it.

Umm.. who's drinking the kool-aid now ?

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Don't even get me started on that hypocrite's stance on drugs.

Which brings us back to where we started. You only know what you've been told to know. Does that seem right to you ?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Well, it is the Democrats fault.

Ahh man, Misbehaven, I guess I owe you twenty, you win the bet, I thought for sure even AU wouldn't say it.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:42 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

It's the Democrat's fault! They MADE Rush say that Fox was faking his disease! They put a hot poker up Rush's butt and FORCED him to slander!

Yada yada yada. Sounds like a 4-year-old. GOP, the party of accountability, refuses to accept any.

PS- I'm waiting for "It's Clinton's fault". Because everything is Clinton's fault.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:07 AM

FELLOWTRAVELER

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

PS- I'm waiting for "It's Clinton's fault". Because everything is Clinton's fault.

Oh, it's coming. Just give 'em some time...

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
* embryo

Early stage of development of an organism in the egg or the uterus, during which its essential form and its organs and tissues develop. In humans, the organism is called an embryo for the first seven or eight weeks after conception, after which it is called a fetus. In mammals, the fertilized egg or zygote undergoes cleavage (cell division without cell growth) to form a hollow ball or blastocyst. During the second week following fertilization, gastrulation (cell differentiation and migration) results in the formation of three tissue types.

It doesn't say that an embryo IS a human being any where there. It does expressly imply that an embryo IS NOT a foetus. You're reading into an entry what you want to be there at least be honest about that.

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It's more than abortion, it's the state mandated creation of a embryo ( read 'very small human' ) and then the state mandated destruction of that same embryo after it's medical usefulness is over. Kinda hard to miss the goulesh aspects of that situation, as seen from the Pro Life crowd. They kinda have a good point

Please before condemning something ensure you know what you are talking about. The Embryos aren't "state created for state sponsored destruction". As sweet as that sentiment may be, conjuring up images of jackbooted scientist saying "we have ways of making you pregnant, IGOR the probe!" it's complete shite.

The embryos are ones created all the time, for IVF and other treatments that are destroyed anyway. Realise what side your advocating here, destroying something for no purpose, or using it for research that has the potential to yield cures for debilitating illness's.

Which is something else, may yield cures, for some bizarre reason you equate may with "probably won't". What's up with that? I mean most major scientific breakthroughs started with "MAY do this" or "MAY do that".

Yeah, more has come from Adult stem cell research, hardly surprising given that there's actually been research done on Adult Stem cells and next to none done on ESC.

You're argument sounds suspiciously like that of a man who's never looked up refusing to believe there is a moon. "There may be a Moon, but why should I waste my time looking for something that could very well not be there."

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Wrong. ESCs are yielding complications such as tumors. ASCs are yielding positive results. If there was such a potential for ESC, then the private market would be all over this stuff. That they aren't should tell you something.

It tells me the private sector is doing what it always does, waiting for it to be a sure thing. The private sector rarely funds research early on, it's too risky, they wait until it's more or less proven and then step in to make the profit.

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Umm.. who's drinking the kool-aid now ?

If understanding the scientific process and thus waiting for research to be done before saying something isn't worth it is "drinking the kool aid" it sure as hell ain't you.

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Which brings us back to where we started. You only know what you've been told to know. Does that seem right to you ?

You know what you've been told by Rush, and Misbehaven knows what's he/she's been told by scientists. I'm sure you may think you have a point.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
It's the Democrat's fault! They MADE Rush say that Fox was faking his disease! They put a hot poker up Rush's butt and FORCED him to slander!

Yada yada yada. Sounds like a 4-year-old. GOP, the party of accountability, refuses to accept any.

PS- I'm waiting for "It's Clinton's fault". Because everything is Clinton's fault.

What you fail to realise with your assumptions is that what you think Rush was doing was not what he was doing. The only way you could truely understand his comments is if you've heard every word he's said since his radio show began, otherwise you're merely taking it out of context.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 5:36 AM

MISBEHAVEN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
So the answer is no, you've only seen what you've been fed, and not as it was actually said. Ok. Thought so.

The only person repeating what others are saying is you, ditto head. I know that you're a fan of Rush, but that doesn't mean that you always have to agree with him, especially when he's so blatantly wrong. And yes, there are plenty of clips that show the segment; I've watched them. And, yes, Rush attacks Fox's character, and he does mock him. What else do you think he's doing when he's sitting there flailing his arms around?

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You can't deny what I've said, so you just make the 'beatin' the dead horse' remark. Classic.

I've already denied it in a previous post, which you so conveniently chose to ignore. Here it is again:

"I wondered how long it would take before you blamed the Democrats for this. Yes! it is the Democrats fault. If they had not run an ad willingly featuring an admirable celebrity dying of a debilitating disease, then a typically uniformed Rush Limbaugh would not have made an ass out of himself and brought even more attention to the E.S.C. debate.

I can see why the Republicans are mad. This shines a nationwide spotlight on E.S.C. funding right before an election. It puts a recognizable face on the disesase. And it exposes most Republican Congressmen and the Bush administration for the unsympathetic panderers they are."

But keep on blaming the Democrats, AURaptor. That's what conservatives always resort to when they're losing an argument. The next step is to blame Clinton specifically. Either Clinton will do.

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It's more than abortion, it's the state mandated creation of a embryo ( read 'very small human' ) and then the state mandated destruction of that same embryo after it's medical usefulness is over. Kinda hard to miss the goulesh aspects of that situation, as seen from the Pro Life crowd.

Only as seen from the Pro-Life crowd, and only if you agree with their particular religious view, that a microscopic cell has a soul. I don't and many millions of others both in this country and worldwide don't agree with them either.

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No, not the scientist , but the political activists who are lying about the potential cures and treatments from ESCs with out admitting that Adult stem cells are proving far more successful.

The political activists who support E.S.C. research are receiving their information from the very scientists you're admitting aren't lying. And those political activists also include some Republicans. Yes, adult stem cells are currently proving more useful, because that's where the most resesarch money is being spent. That doesn't mean that they have more potential, but rather that they're being researched more thoroughly at this point. Switch tactics already. I'm getting tired of repeating this.

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No, they're huamn beings.
* embryo

No, they're embryonic stem cells, which are taken from embryos. The very fact that they're stem cells means, " they can develop into each of the more than 200 cell types of the adult body when given sufficient and necessary stimulation for a specific cell type."

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At least be honest about what you're dealing with here. Until you can do that, this is all a waste of time.

I agree. I wish you'd get your facts straight.

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I never said we shouldn't do ANY research. But we must realize that ASCs are FAR MORE likely to yield benefitial results than ESCs.

Here's what you said in a previous post:

If you're going to play that game, best put the $$ where it can offer the greatest pay back. So far, E.S.C research is a hole in the ground, where better returns could be expected elsewhere.

So, no. You're not advocating funding and performing any stem cell research. You're just advocating not funding and performing any ESC research. Of course you know that's what I meant. I guess I need to go back to spelling everything out for you.

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If there was such a potential for ESC, then the private market would be all over this stuff. That they aren't should tell you something.

Actually they are. Here are some numbers for you:

Already there is nearly $4 billion in private and state monies committed to stem-cell research over the next decade, with another three-quarters of a billion dollars under active consideration.

Setting aside commercial efforts like those of the California biotech company Geron, consider a few examples of private funding for academic stem-cell research. The Starr Foundation is providing $50 million over three years for human embryonic stem-cell research at three New York City medical institutions, including the Sloan-Kettering Memorial Cancer Center. Weill Cornell Medical College, also in New York City, has established the Ansary Center for Stem Cell Therapeutics with a $15 million grant from philanthropists Shahla and Hushang Ansary.

In California, UCLA has established an Institute for Stem Cell Biology and Medicine with $20 million in funding over the next five years. Stanford University created the Institute for Cancer/Stem Cell Biology and Medicine, with a goal of $120 million in funding. An anonymous donor gave Johns Hopkins University a $58.5 million gift to launch an Institute for Cell Engineering. The University of Minnesota has set up a Stem Cell Institute with a $15 million capital grant. A grateful patient pledged $25 million over the next 10 years to finance stem-cell research at the University of Texas Health Science Center in Houston.

States are also pouring money into stem-cell research. Last November, California voters passed a $3 billion initiative to create a California Institute of Regenerative Medicine that aims to fund stem-cell research at $300 million annually for the next 10 years. New Jersey has allocated $150 million to construct a new stem-cell research center. Connecticut passed legislation authorizing $100 million in spending on both adult and embryonic stem-cell research over the next 10 years. Illinois's governor, Rod Blagojevich, moved $10 million of state public health research funding to establish a new stem-cell research institute called the Illinois Regenerative Medicine Institute.

On the drawing boards, a bill proposing to use $10 million from the state's tobacco settlement proceeds for stem-cell research has already been introduced in North Carolina. The Texas House of Representatives approved a measure to sell $41.1 million in bonds for a stem-cell research facility at the University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston. There's a bond measure pending in the Pennsylvania State House. Meanwhile legislation has been introduced in the New York State Assembly to create the New York State Institute for Stem Cell Research and Regenerative Medicine with annual funding of $100 million.

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Who was it that Fox was supporting in those several ads. The Democrat candidates.

In those ads, Democrats. But that doesn't change the fact that he campaigns for Republicans as well.

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Me - The overwhelming consesus amongst the scientists studying E.S.C. research is that it MAY yield cures. But of course, the only way to find out is to fund it.

AURaptor - Umm.. who's drinking the kool-aid now ?

Clearly still you, since you don't care about the conclusions of the scientists doing the research.

Quote:

Which brings us back to where we started. You only know what you've been told to know. Does that seem right to you ?

Yeah, you're right. Rush wasn't a pill poppin' drug addict who was illegally obtaining large quantities of Oxycontin. He hasn't, on his own show, advocated lengthy prison terms for people who are busted doing the very same thing he himself did. So you tell me. Does that seem right to you? I'm sure it does, as you are one of his ditto heads, which by definition means you only know what you've been told.

The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation.
-Bertrand Russell

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 5:39 AM

MISBEHAVEN

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

]Originally posted by AURaptor:
Well, it is the Democrats fault.

Ahh man, Misbehaven, I guess I owe you twenty, you win the bet, I thought for sure even AU wouldn't say it.

Honestly, I didn't either. But when all else fails....

A dog can't tell a Nazi from a Republican from a Commie from a Democrat and, many times, neither can I.
-Charles Bukowski

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 6:04 AM

FELLOWTRAVELER

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Embryonic stem cells have, to date, yielded very little medical value.

That's an interesting point. So we should give up?

Malaria has been killing folks for 50,000 years and still kills between one and three million annually. There is still no completely effective vaccine for Malaria, despite billions spent on research. We should just give up, aye?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaria#History
http://www.journalclub.org/vol2/a40.html

How about AIDS? It was first recognized in 1981 and to date has killed more than 25 million people. There is no cure or vaccine for AIDS, even though billions have been spent. Meh, I don't have AIDS, so why should I give a damn? Off with their funding!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS

Let's look at Polio. It was first (officially) recognized in 1840. Jonas Salk didn't test his vaccine until 1952. So, it took over 100 years to work out those bugs. I'm glad they didn't give up in 1845 because there were not yet positive results.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine

Maybe the Measles? Reports of Measles go back to at least 600BC. The virus was finally isolated in 1954. In 1963 licensed vaccines became available. Only two and half millennia to punch that one out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles

Look, I get that we're an instant gratification society, but sometimes it takes those scientists a few years to figure things out. Maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't give up quite yet...

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 6:52 AM

STORYMARK

[img]

Maybe the Dems should thank Rush. At this point, he's just digging a deeper hole for the GOP to try to climb out of next week.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:25 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Wow. I can't believe this is still going on.

According to the right-wingers - Rush was just engaged in reasoned debate. He was not mimicking Fox, he was just, uhhhmm, uuhhhhh, something or other. Whatever. Whatever those movements were, it's not important ! We have to stick to the issues ! And Fox. WELL ! When he was giving testimony about the effects of Parkinson's he had no RIGHT to show Congress what those effects were! That was just like lying !

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 10:47 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

( All this while the Dims are guilty of doing what they accuse the GOP of being, making fun of Rush for his hearing loss or battling over addiction to pain meds. Yes, true compassion from the Left. )

You divisive fool. Peeps go off on Clinton, and it's okay. Peeps go off on Rush, and you knee-jerk your vitriolic wad.
Poor Rush, battling that addiction; it jumped him and wrestled him to the ground. He scored his Oxycontin fix, kicking and screaming all the way.
He's an example of the slime of humanity, and you associate yourself in his goo by defending him.

What Mal said means nothing huh? Right on the edge you are, just a right-wing version of a lefty moonbat. Mal would be disgusted with ya.

And compassion? What? Are those on the left supposed to have the franchise on that? You sayin' that the right is notoriously mean? That's neo-con territory, my friend. Your narrow focus on what you believe to be right and wrong is damaging my calm.

Biped Manimal-watching scum.

The acid-tongued, righteously indignant Chrisisall

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 10:52 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

Chrisisall is the new black! He is my hero!

Thank the fascist leanings of our present leaders, and the immoral support dopes like DISruptor give to them for my new resolve, my dear

.

Now get to work! Chrisisall

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Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:26 PM

MARINA

Quote:
Originally posted by FellowTraveler:

Um, everything you said about Malaria, HIV/AIDS, Polio, Measles, etc.

Thank you, thank you for posting the exact response I was about to spend 20 minutes trying to compile. I find so much of this thread tedious, and I hope more people take notice of this facet of AURaptor's argument (that there should be no federal funding for ESC research because it has yet to prove fruitful).

It seems like he went very quickly from vehemently defending Rush to finally enlightening us on his political and scientific opinions that have motivated all his previous rants. I can only hope that this will give us some actual knowledge about why he argues what he does; otherwise my brain might explode.

Don't make faces.

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Wednesday, November 1, 2006 4:48 AM

FELLOWTRAVELER

Your very welcome, Marina, It was a slow day at the salt mine. I wouldn't, however, expect any kinda' reasoned response from AU. If the pattern holds, once backed into a corner, he will rabbit. And he says Kerry is the coward...

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Wednesday, November 1, 2006 8:07 AM

SOUPCATCHER

Lots of posts since the last time I was here. A couple of random thoughts...

I went back to Limbaugh's site to see if I could find the original transcript. Nope. He has created a page titled, "What Rush REALLY said about Michael J. Fox." That's false advertising. The page should be titled, "What Rush really said about what he said about Michael J. Fox." Nowhere on the page can you read what Limbaugh initially said. The page is full of information and links to transcripts - from the many segments he has spent talking about Fox - but not one of those transcripts is the one of interest. The take-away message for me is that Limbaugh is afraid of putting what he said out in the public view. He'll devote thousands of words to explaining what he said, but refuses to simply quote himself. His defense is, "Because I said so." And the dittoheads say, "Amen." So, until someone produces the full transcript and we can all judge for ourself, the defense that the video clip is out of context is bullshit. Rush obviously thinks he has something to hide. So do I.

Shifting gears. I think that attempting to engage in civil discourse can be a mistake. Those who are more concerned with the tone of what they are saying than what is being said are going to get taken advantage of. It's like telemarketers, they rely on people being polite. Well, those who support this administration blindly rely on the rest of us being polite. I've been hanging around these boards for going on three years now. In that time, I've seen a lot of crap put out there by Bush supporters. A lot. I have a tremendous amount of respect for both SignyM and Rue because they call people on their crap. With evidence. Both SignyM and Rue have done a lot of heavy lifting over the past two years. And often, when one of them has researched and debunked a particular point and brought it to our attention, the person who made the claim will shift the goalposts or change subjects or even just restate the debunked claim over again. It's frustrating as hell to read, and I'm just a third party to the exchange. When someone does not show the capacity to change, there's very little you can do with them. One option is to tag them with their behavior. I find Rue's nicknames to be pretty accurate, at least based on what I've seen over the years. {Side note: I enjoy Chrisisall's posts for quite different reasons}.

Part of what I see in this thread is outrage stemming from disbelief. Those of us who have stopped drinking the administration's Kool Aid are an optimistic bunch. We keep expecting the true believers to wake up and smell the coffee. I keep thinking, "There's no way they are going to buy that one." And if they question one thing, maybe they'll question two. Once you critically look at what this administration says and does you see all sorts of inconsistencies. There have been tipping points where large numbers of Americans have woken up - Katrina being the largest - but, for the most part, the true believers do not rattle. When Limbaugh so clearly crosses the line I'm thinking, "There's no way anyone can defend that." And I'm wrong again. Damn, that Kool Aid is some strong stuff.

Changing direction. FellowTraveler hit on something that had been bugging me, this whole instant gratification thing. That was an aspect of the counter ad (the one that starts off with Jim Caviezel speaking in Aramaic - Golly, I wonder who that is targeting - and has various celebrities talking) that rankled. I think it was the Kurt Warner segment.

It's a good thing Limbaugh didn't have a show when Kennedy pledged the moon. Something being proposed by a Massachusetts Democrat? He would've been hating on the space program all day every day. If it was up to Limbaugh and his followers, there'd be pictures of cosmonauts planting the first footprints on the moon.

We used to be a nation of, "Can do." You got a problem? We'll solve it. And one of the ways we've solved many problems is by advancing our understanding of science. Now we have a group of true believers who are attempting to discredit science in their attempt to get governmental endorsement of their religious denomination. This topic, embryonic stem cell research, is that conflict in a nutshell. And, for many socially liberal Republicans, it's another tipping point. I read this NYTimes article and the following section really resonated with me as an engineer. The location is Bellevue, Washington:

Quote:
excerpted from, "Liberal Republican Suburb Turns Furious with the G.O.P." at http://tinyurl.com/ym7mk8
In Bellevue, the professional is political. Rather than religion or culture, what unites the diverse population — a quarter of residents are foreign born — are the values of their workplaces: technological innovation, accuracy, efficiency.

And this year, one issue incenses them above all others: restrictions on embryonic stem cell research.

It is a matter of concern across the country, even across parties. But for many engineers and their ilk, restriction of stem cell research is what gay marriage is to conservative Christians, a phenomenon so counter to their basic values that they cannot vote for any candidate who supports it. After all, for Bellevue’s professionals, science is not only a means of creating wealth but also an idealistic pursuit, the most promising way they know of improving the human condition.

Why are we allowing our national scientific policy to be set by people who can't stand science?

Urrr. Now it looks like there's something about John Kerry...

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Saturday, November 4, 2006 8:16 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
How about a solution to the whole mess

Lets take the researchers and all the money that could be spent on said research, move it to Canada and get something done.

After all, the end goal is more important than the politics involved...

that ain't gonna happen

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Saturday, November 4, 2006 8:19 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by JaynezTown:
Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
How about a solution to the whole mess

Lets take the researchers and all the money that could be spent on said research, move it to Canada and get something done.

After all, the end goal is more important than the politics involved...

that ain't gonna happen

Already Is

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/10/25/keller-stem-cells.html

Dr. Gordon Keller, one of the world's leading stem cell scientists, is coming back to Canada to head up a new research centre in Toronto.

Keller will be the director of the McEwen Centre for Regenerative Medicine at the University Health Network, which was launched on Wednesday.

Keller left his native Saskatchewan 16 years ago to work in the U.S. Earlier this year, New York magazine called the embryonic stem cell researcher one of the top six medical minds the city didn't want to lose.

Now we need more researchers to move, more pharma companys to send their research budgets north, and of course all the charitable foundations to send all their cash up here...

" Fighting them at their own game
Murder for freedom the stab in the back
Women and children and cowards attack

Run to the hills run for your lives "

http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/ironmaiden/liveafterdeath.html#12

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Sunday, November 5, 2006 3:15 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
FellowTraveler wrote:
Tuesday, October 31, 2006 06:04

Malaria has been killing folks for 50,000 years and still kills between one and three million annually. There is still no completely effective vaccine for Malaria, despite billions spent on research. We should just give up, aye?

What we could do is spray DDT and spare the lives of millions of children. DDT never was the aweful, cancer causing agent that it's since been portrayed being by so many enviromentalist. The excessive use of it was the problem. Go back to using modest amounts of DDT, and you'll save the lives of children TODAY, not 50 yrs from now.

Quote:
How about AIDS? It was first recognized in 1981 and to date has killed more than 25 million people. There is no cure or vaccine for AIDS, even though billions have been spent. Meh, I don't have AIDS, so why should I give a damn? Off with their funding!

AIDS funding has received far more than its fair share. More people die from cancer than from AIDS. And AIDS is highly preventable, unlike cancer. Spare me the AIDS angle.

Quote:
Let's look at Polio. It was first (officially) recognized in 1840. Jonas Salk didn't test his vaccine until 1952. So, it took over 100 years to work out those bugs. I'm glad they didn't give up in 1845 because there were not yet positive results

And not a single embryo was used, not a single person was killed for this vaccine. Amazing!

Etc, etc...for what ever else you can offer up as 'evidence' . The facts are, REAL results are being found w/ Adult Stem Cells. You can still do your own embryonic stem cell research, if you want to waste your time. More importantly though, you can use YOUR OWN $$$. Or go to California. They allow state funds for ESC research.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, November 5, 2006 9:37 AM

EMPIREX

I hate Rush Limbaugh, that fat bastard!

He's got NO CALL to be talking about people being ON or OFF medication.

Fox is dedicated to the cause of stem cell research. Saying that he's purposely supporting only Democrats is ridiculous. It's not his fault that the Dems are the ones that support stem cell research. It's my opinion that the majority of Repulican lawmakers don't support it because they're owned by the extreme Christian Right. You can't tell me that most of these educated men and women would take a look at Fox or at Christopher Reeve or any Alzheimer's or ALS victim and not want to help put an end to these awful diseases. But their hands are tied. They know who put them in office and who will keep them in office. They know WHO their DADDY'S ARE, so to speak. And they're not going to jeapordize their paychecks by allowing stem cell research. It's sad, but that's the way it is.

My mother died from ALS. My friend's mother was diagnosed with premature alzheimers at the age of 44. So, yeah, this is an emotional subject for me.

And as for Limbaugh, I firmly believe that

ing hypocrite is gonna spend eternity in The Hot Place.

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Sunday, November 5, 2006 4:04 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by EmpireX:
I hate Rush Limbaugh, that fat bastard!
He's got NO CALL to be talking about people being ON or OFF medication.

Fox is dedicated to the cause of stem cell research. Saying that he's purposely supporting only Democrats is ridiculous. It's not his fault that the Dems are the ones that support stem cell research. It's my opinion that the majority of Repulican lawmakers don't support it because they're owned by the extreme Christian Right. You can't tell me that most of these educated men and women would take a look at Fox or at Christopher Reeve or any Alzheimer's or ALS victim and not want to help put an end to these awful diseases. But their hands are tied. They know who put them in office and who will keep them in office. They know WHO their DADDY'S ARE, so to speak. And they're not going to jeapordize their paychecks by allowing stem cell research. It's sad, but that's the way it is.

My mother died from ALS. My friend's mother was diagnosed with premature alzheimers at the age of 44. So, yeah, this is an emotional subject for me.

And as for Limbaugh, I firmly believe that ing hypocrite is gonna spend eternity in The Hot Place.

Sorry for your loss. I know how it feels. But to be flat out honest, you've not been following along. Bush and the GOP do support stem cell research. Just not FEDERAL FUNDING for NEW LINES of EMBRYONIC stem cell research. A fact I myself have made several times over in this thread. And the facts are, MJ Fox did make campaign ads FOR Democrats which were factually inaccurate or misleading. So Rush, or anyone else, has the right and damn it all the responsibility to call out those ads, regardless of who made them.

Embryonic stem cell research is not made illegal by Bush or any of the GOP.
Every significant advancement and treatment that has come from stem cells are from ADULT stem cell research. The results of Embryonic stem cells has, to date, yielded nothing but harmful side effects. No results.
Everyone wants to put an end to this disease. That is NOT the debate. But what they don't want is to fill those afflicted and their loved ones up w/ false hope.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, November 5, 2006 4:47 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Ass-wipe

YOU apparently haven't been following the SCIENCE. Existing cell cultures are CONTAMINATED and useless for medical purposes.

http://www.bioethics.iastate.edu/Bioethics_in_Brief/sep06.html

"Some embryonic stem cell lines are already available for federally funded research ... Unfortunately, the process used to develop these stem cell lines involved the use of mouse embryos. Consequently, all existing stem cell lines that are available for federally funded research are contaminated with mouse DNA."

I'm going to wait a few minutes for your response. If you channel the party line I think you will, I have my response ready to show you why you're wrong.

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Monday, November 6, 2006 9:18 AM

America loves a winner!

rue - if you're going to continue to act like an immature fucking dickhead, I see no reason to carry on this discussion. Nothing I said was 'wrong'. If the lines from the Fedreally funded sources are now unusable, then tough. Raise money from the free market, or con it out of the good people of California. Meanwhile, real, useful research - from adult & umbilical cord stem cells - will carry on.

you very much.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, November 6, 2006 7:34 PM

EMPIREX

You are correct, AURaptor. I haven't read every single post in this thread. My post was directed at no one in particular, certainly not you. I was simply stating my opinion on the matter and venting my extreme dislike for Mr. Limbaugh.

However, I have been following the stem cell issue, and while politicians may argue back and forth, it seems that the scientists are saying that the BEST stem cells to work with are EMBRYONIC stem cells, that they're much more viable and useful than any other stem cells.

Frankly, when you have years, not decades, to live, time is of the essence. I don't care what kind of cells they use. I say, whatever works, do it. I don't have a moral issue with scientists using a clump of unwanted cells for research purposes.
You stated:
"Every significant advancement and treatment that has come from stem cells are from ADULT stem cell research. The results of Embryonic stem cells has, to date, yielded nothing but harmful side effects. No results."

I can't refute this. I can only say that what I've heard on TV and articles I've read in Newsweek and other magazines seems to support that embryonic stem cell research shows more promise.

You also said you "know how it feels"... Do you really?
Let me tell you a little about what my mother went through. At the end of her life, she could not walk. She could not move her toes or her legs. She could not lift her arms to feed herself or brush her hair. She could not take a drink of water without asking for assistance. Imagine being trapped in your body. Having an itch and not being able to scratch it. Having to ask your twelve year old daughter to help you go to the bathroom, having to use a bed pan. The complete loss of dignity. The fear that one day, you won't able to breathe on your own, that when you want to take a breath, you won't be able to. It would be torture.
It was torture.
If you truly knew how it felt, I can't help but think you'd be singing a different tune.

On a more positive note, I'd like to share this with whoever might be reading: my mom's illness brought my family in contact with a great group of people, a national club called AMBUCS. Our local chapter built a wheel chair ramp for my mom that was both safe and in accordance with our city's codes. AMBUCS build wheelchair ramps for people of all ages and disabilities. AMBUCS also donate AMTrykes, which are fun physical therapy bikes for children and teenagers. Recently, another Illinois chapter helped build a "Boundless Playground" that children and adults of all abilities can play on. They also award scholarships to students who plan to go into the field of physical therapy. If anyone is looking to volunteer a few hours of their time every once in while, you can locate a local chapter at www.ambucs.com. It's been awesome working with these people. I can't tell you how gratifying it is to see an elderly person able to get outside of their house or see a child able to take their AmTryke for a bike ride with their siblings or parents! I encourage you guys to check it out.

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Tuesday, November 7, 2006 8:01 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

OH GOODY ! I've graduated to dickhead!

Ass-wipe, the REASON I've given you a pet name is because you constantly spout flat-out lies. And have ever since you started posting on RWE. NOTHING has changed your MO. Not facts, not logic, patience, reason, not basic humanity. WTF is up with you? Why do you always find the snarkiest position and cling to it? Esepcially when all this is making you ... well ... useless as a human being.

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Tuesday, November 7, 2006 11:24 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Frankly, when you have years, not decades, to live, time is of the essence. I don't care what kind of cells they use. I say, whatever works, do it. I don't have a moral issue with scientists using a clump of unwanted cells for research purposes.

Point of fact, we don't know how long we have to live. My parents retired to their dream house, expecting to live out their years there. That very year, my mom was diagnosed w/ cancer. She was gone in 2 years.(I won't bother w/ the details, but I do truly know how you feel, and am still singing a different tune ) But to the point of this thread, you can't live your life hoping that science will suddenly come in and save the day. It doesn't work like that. You might as well max out your credit cards and then hope to win the lottery. You say you don't have a moral issue w/ a 'clump of cells', but many do. We all started out as a similar clump, whether you want to recognize that or not. But that's not even my personal issue. I look at what HAS worked, and what has the most promise of working, TODAY. It's not stem cells from embryos. Anyone you or I know today , young or old, should they fall sick or become injured, will be saved by treatments from adult stem cells long before anything coming from embryos. Fact is, IF anything comes from embryonic stem cells, the oddsare it'll be our grand children, or great grand children who benefits. Meanwhile, lives will be saved and made better w/ the $ spent on other, more reliable stem cell research.

Also, I never said nor did I ever take the position that ESC research should be BANNED. Far from it. I say , if the free market thinks it a wise enough venture, by all means, fund away. States could even fund ESC, as is happening in California. My issue is w/ the FEDERAL money being used , foolishly, for this endeavor, where it could be spent better elsewhere. I've said this over and over again. Politically, I am a conservative libertarian, and favor smaller, less intrusive Gov't. Many here on this board think Gov't should do everything for us, and because of that, they call me all sorts of childish names. I favor the individual, and freedom. And for that, folks like Rue feel the need to ridicule me. Which is fine.

Rue, you can continue to lie and distort the facts time and time again, as you clearly love doing. You don't agree w/ me ? Fine, but you lie about what I post, completely invert the facts to the point that you're a idiot troll on here. It's clear that you're too emotionally immature to deal w/ issues on face value, and thats why you resort to name calling. I responded in like kind, but only in retaliation. It's clear that reasoned discourse w/ you isn't going to happen, because you refuse to see reason. I'll just consider yours as 1 less reply I'll waste my time with here. Have fun, troll.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, November 7, 2006 11:57 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
[B
Rue, you can continue to lie and distort the facts time and time again, as you clearly love doing. You don't agree w/ me ? Fine, but you lie about what I post, completely invert the facts to the point that you're a idiot troll on here. It's clear that you're too emotionally immature to deal w/ issues on face value, and thats why you resort to name calling. I responded in like kind, but only in retaliation. It's clear that reasoned discourse w/ you isn't going to happen, because you refuse to see reason. I'll just consider yours as 1 less reply I'll waste my time with here. Have fun, troll.B]

Well said.

Except, you need to reverse it, as that's how many of us see you.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 7, 2006 1:03 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

AU

Over and over you denied, excused and justified Limpaugh's actions - spazzing in imitation of Fox. And you keep trying to present waht he did as rational, reasoned discourse. You pretend there wasn't video and that every one could SEE what Limpaugh was doing. It's actually worse reading your extended comments - they contain so much more deception that these short quotes. But here they are:

It's sad that a person's political ideology can run so deeply, that he feels justified in verbally attacking someone who's suffering from a debilitating disease just because he disagrees with the other guy's politics.
AU
That's not at all what Rush has done
In no way what so ever did Rush 'verbally attack' anyone

AU
What Rush did was correctly point out that MJ Fox DID indeed alter his medication (And that's why he was spazzing in imitation - it was just reasoned discourse, eh?)

AU
Rush responded to purely political ad (despite Fox supporting a republican ?)
... everybody who doesn't listen to Rush has it WRONG. (Rush wasn't making fun of Fox.)

Rush wasn't attacking the messenger (MJ FOX) so much as he was attacking the MESSAGE!

Rush didn't mock anyone here, and you know it.

Rush wasn't MOCKING Fox in the least.

--------------

And then there's your constant refrain - adult stem cells work ! No links, I noticed. Nope, not even one. I happen to know you are wrong. But I'm going to give you the chance to prove yourself before I prove to everyone that you're lying again, like usual.

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Wednesday, November 8, 2006 11:30 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Why am I close minded? Because I don't hold the same view as you. Rush Limbaugh has shown himself repeatedly to be an ass. My opinion. He isn't really even worthy of a thread. One can only hope his 15 minutes are soon to be up. That way the airwaves will be cleared for someone with something of impoort to say.

First, you said " everthing that comes out of his mouth is shite" . I doubt very much that you've heard..for YOURSELF , what he's said himself at all. Have you ever listened to his show for more than 20 minutes ? 10 mintues ? I'm guessing 'no' to be the answer. So, based on that , I say your limited knowledge on what Rush says greatly limits your point of view.

Second, you say he's not worthy of a thread. Maybe, but tell that to MISBEHAVEN and fret over the 180 odd times folks have posted since this thread was started.

You say one can only hope his 15 mintues are up? Funny, he's been the top talk radio host for how many years now ? He's in his 19th season, just so you know.

But we can agree on ONE thing. This thread has exceeded its purpose. I'm done adding to it, for what that's worth.

Aloha

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, November 8, 2006 1:58 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:

First, you said " everthing that comes out of his mouth is shite" . I doubt very much that you've heard..for YOURSELF , what he's said himself at all. Have you ever listened to his show for more than 20 minutes ? 10 mintues ? I'm guessing 'no' to be the answer. So, based on that , I say your limited knowledge on what Rush says greatly limits your point of view.

Guess

VERB:
guessed , guess·ing , guess·es VERB: tr.

To assume, presume, or assert (a fact) without sufficient information.

Well, gee. Yet another instance in which you are wrong.

----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

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Wednesday, November 8, 2006 2:33 PM

CHRISISALL

Rue, admit it. You have fun callin' AU and Hero on their crap, don't you? It's like a microcosm of yelling at all neoconmen and their brainwashed minions everywhere, right?

Oh, here's the additional ammo you requested.

Special delivery Chrisisall

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Thursday, November 9, 2006 9:48 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Rue, admit it. You have fun callin' AU and Hero on their crap, don't you? It's like a microcosm of yelling at all neoconmen and their brainwashed minions everywhere, right?"

UUUUHHHhhhhh ........ yeaahh

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Friday, November 17, 2006 11:00 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

There have been all sorts of articles about Parkinson's lately.

Here is one I thought was interesting. It also addresses something I proposed to a colleague a couple of years back - that the hallucinations of schizophrenia were in effect dopamine-caused waking-dreams.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061012190058.htm

When dopamine levels were dramatically reduced, the mice could no longer sleep, the scientists said. When dopamine levels were increased, the mice exhibited brain activity associated with dreaming during wakefulness.

The study also provided insights into the biology underlying schizophrenia, the researchers said. They found that the excess dopamine in the brains of the mice generated patterns of brain activity that made it look as though the animals were experiencing brain activity associated with dreaming when they were actually awake.

The new study suggests that destruction of significantly fewer dopamine-producing cells could result in sleep problems long before the motor problems become apparent, the researchers said.

The findings may also provide a mechanism to explain some of the symptoms, such as hallucinations, experienced by psychotic and schizophrenic patients, he said.

----------

One of the side effects of Parkinson's medication is visual hallucinations and powerful dream-like moods and ideas while awake. And as the sufferer needs higher and higher dosages to counter the effects of Parkinson's, the side effects become worse.

That BTW is the reason for the new warning on the flu drug Tamiflu, which is also 'dopaminergic'.

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Friday, November 17, 2006 1:15 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Rue, you can continue to lie and distort the facts time and time again, as you clearly love doing. You don't agree w/ me ? Fine, but you lie about what I post, completely invert the facts to the point that you're a idiot troll on here. It's clear that you're too emotionally immature to deal w/ issues on face value, and thats why you resort to name calling. I responded in like kind, but only in retaliation. It's clear that reasoned discourse w/ you isn't going to happen, because you refuse to see reason. I'll just consider yours as 1 less reply I'll waste my time with here. Have fun, troll.

Well said.

Except, you need to reverse it, as that's how many of us see you.

Great. You've now sunk to " I know you are, but what am I ?" responses. I think it's time for your nap. No juice and cookies for you either.

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Friday, November 17, 2006 2:04 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Sigh. So much for productive and rational discussion.

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Friday, November 17, 2006 3:39 PM