Rummy is OUT! by Eric

Quote:
Originally posted by Zepran:
Let me just point out what I (as a non debater, ask me a political question you'll get an answer, but not a debate) read from this.

Soldiers don't vote i.e. when the call comes down to Sarge that the General wants to take that hill Sarge may be thinking the moron has no clue what he's asking but he doesn't ask the Privates to vote on what to do. My understanding having never been in the military is that its not a democracy.

I took his comments at face value, you and Cartoon did not. Cartoon especially read the same thing then reinterprets it because it casts a shadow on to his side of the debate. We're talking about people being democratically elected to positions, and AURaptor says soldiers don't vote. Not only is it what he said on face value, but it's the only logical conclusion of his words intent within the context they were written.

Notice that everyone, save yourself, came to the same conclusion, even if in some cases they had to spin the words because that conclusion reflected badly on their argument.

And just so's we're clear I never defended Kerry, I said he was an idiot for his statements. I also said all the die hard Republican lovers were hypocrites for attacking Kerry there and defending Rush when he does something equally stupid and far more viscious. I'm calling AURaptor a hypocrite for willfully denigrating soldiers when he was calling for Kerry's blood just last week. An extremely persistant position.

If the end result of those words makes AURaptor a doofus, well it's not the stupidiest thing he's ever said, and the last interpretation I'd trust is that of a violent religious fanactic, eh Cartoon.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
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Thursday, November 9, 2006 10:11 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Rummy is OUT!

... of the closet ????

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Friday, November 10, 2006 5:26 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
What are you trying to imply here? Soldiers are lower life forms that don't know how to choose a politician? I may not know the situation in America, but in Canada our soldiers vote the same as everyone else (even when deployed). They, we, are citizens and compatriots just the same as civilians (if not more so as we put our lives on the line for our country and often give it)

Soldiers don't vote for the SecDef. As I explained, the PRESIDENT appoints a SecDef, who then serves as long as the President sees fit. The point I thought was clear is that the rest of the armed services has no say in the matter. Soliders don't get to VOTE on who they want as SecDef. As citizens, they DO get to vote, and a vast majority in the military vote conservative. But that's for another thread.

How does that message get lost ?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, November 10, 2006 5:49 AM

America loves a winner!

citizen - How is it that your life sucks so much that you must go so far out of your way to engage yourself into a discussion of which you have no CLUE of what you're talking about?

The soldiers don't get to vote on who they want as SecDef. That's what I said, in context, as the discussion was about Rumsfeld. That's not me commenting on their standing in society, that's a FACT. I never said they'e lesser citizens, or too stupid TO vote for POLITICAL leaders, just as anyone else does. I'd clearly understood they vote! That you'd sit there and contort my words to mean anything remotely close to that shows what a sad, miserable pin head you really are.

I see you don't offer any evidence to refute my statement about the 2000 election, (because there is none ) , you just toss on another insult. The holocaust happened. The 2000 election wasn't sotlen. No comparison of the two.
Try the words and pictures version next time. This should be entertaining.

Democrats do "cry wolf" all the time, and it's shameful. I trust you know the story?

I bet you've never heard Rush Limbaugh,certainly not beyond a few soundbites, so for you to offer any opinion on what he says is laughable. He's been doing his radio show for 19 years now. Has written 2 books. There is absolutely no 'hate mongering' involved. Critics who can't reply to his positions pull the 'hate monger' card when they've got nothing intelligent left to say. Like you.

There was no dictatorship. W and the GOP were duely elected to their office just as the Dems were on Tuesday.( Note: they got more votes in 2004 than in 2000. Funny,huh? ) In antoher 2 years, we'll have another election. Some will keep their office, others won't. The wheel keeps turning. Fact is, many conservatives weren't happy with W either, so any claims of 'dictatorship' are even more ridiculous than you know. We weren't getting what we wanted WITH W in the W.H. and a GOP controled Congress. But you don't live here, and can only surmise about our politics from across the pond. Classic.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, November 10, 2006 7:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
citizen - How is it that your life sucks so much that you must go so far out of your way to engage yourself into a discussion of which you have no CLUE of what you're talking about?

My life don't suck, I comment on things I do know about by and large. One wonders why you ever bother to comment given the above criteria, being that you know nothing about anything as post after post eloquently shows.

Quote:
The soldiers don't get to vote on who they want as SecDef. That's what I said, in context, as the discussion was about Rumsfeld. That's not me commenting on their standing in society, that's a FACT. I never said they'e lesser citizens, or too stupid TO vote for POLITICAL leaders, just as anyone else does. I'd clearly understood they vote! That you'd sit there and contort my words to mean anything remotely close to that shows what a sad, miserable pin head you really are.

Okay Kerry. I mean AURaptor.

Quote:
I see you don't offer any evidence to refute my statement about the 2000 election, (because there is none ) , you just toss on another insult. The holocaust happened. The 2000 election wasn't sotlen. No comparison of the two.
Try the words and pictures version next time. This should be entertaining.

You haven't supplied any evidence, for anything, ever. But this is a thread about something else, the election stealing issue has been discussed verbatim my backwards little friend, it is none of my concern if you are unable to remember what happened a few weeks ago. As for Insults, I reply to people in the manner they speak to me, I suppose Pinhead is a compliment huh? There's no high ground for you to take I'm afraid.

Quote:
I bet you've never heard Rush Limbaugh,certainly not beyond a few soundbites, so for you to offer any opinion on what he says is laughable. He's been doing his radio show for 19 years now. Has written 2 books. There is absolutely no 'hate mongering' involved. Critics who can't reply to his positions pull the 'hate monger' card when they've got nothing intelligent left to say. Like you.

I've said a great many intelligent things in my time, unlike you. Though like all humans I can screw up, and I recognise that, unlike you. Rush Limbaugh's major plus point is he has a group of happy little minions (like you) to do his bidding, he spews hate, and you say "it's not hate it's fact, he can't help it if it's them that ARE the problem, the man's just telling it like it is". A marvellous position to be in, with a group of people with no power of independent thought to spin your words if you get caught out.

And actually I have heard a great deal of what he's said, been through his site you see, seems your typical extreme right wing talk show host to me, going on and on about how it's 'their fault'...

Quote:
But you don't live here, and can only surmise about our politics from across the pond. Classic.

So you'll stop commenting on anything that happens outside US borders yes? Otherwise you'll just be a gross hypocrite. Fact is I get a hell of a lot of information about the US, from the media, and friends who live there (you know friends, people who like you despite your foibles, maybe you don't get that concept, I understand) a great deal more information to go on than you have for just about anything you comment on.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, November 10, 2006 7:18 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Democrats do "cry wolf" all the time, and it's shameful. I trust you know the story?

We do? I can honestly say that I have never cried Wolf. I mean really, why would I? I don't have one.

Quote:
There was no dictatorship. W and the GOP were duely elected to their office just as the Dems were on Tuesday.(

One can be elected and still become a Dictator. When ol' G.W. stated that he was THE DECIDER, that sounded pretty dictatorish to me. If I remember correctly, WE the People of the US are THE DECIDERS and the President works for us

----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

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Friday, November 10, 2006 8:18 AM

HKCAVALIER

FMF, that's old news. The one-time "decider" who decided that Rumsfeld must stay on, has become the "mind-changer" and the "I-couldn't-tell-you-that-Rummy-was-resigning-right-before-an-election-so-I-lied-er."

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, November 10, 2006 8:31 AM

ZEPRAN

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Notice that everyone, save yourself, came to the same conclusion

Actually I don't notice that, I notice that the few people that commented on it came to that conclusion. I commented that I was confused how they came to that conclusion.

This morning I asked the 5 people I work with what they thought of the phrase "soldiers don't vote" (obviously taken out of context since I just supplied that phrase) and all of them came to the same conclusion I did. Maybe I just separated it from the rest of the text when I read it but I never once thought AURaptor was stating they didn't get a vote/were lesser citizens in any way. /shrug

Also I didn't say anything about defending Kerry I just said I found it amusing he came up as to me it was a similar situation of taking the words at "face value".

I hope that doesn't come across as an argument as I really don't mean it to, I'm just trying to clarify my comment from yesterday.

Reading AURaptor's own clarification post it seems I was wrong too...

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Friday, November 10, 2006 8:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
One can be elected and still become a Dictator. When ol' G.W. stated that he was THE DECIDER, that sounded pretty dictatorish to me. If I remember correctly, WE the People of the US are THE DECIDERS and the President works for us

Oh come on, it's not like George Bush ever expressed an interest in being a dictator. Not like he ever said things would be better if he was is it.

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier...just as long as I'm the dictator..."

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, November 10, 2006 10:07 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Why is it then, that when given an opportunity to unite in an effort to enrich every person’s life – with the vast cultural diversity of this entire planet and with the potential for such great strides in all things that can indeed make this world sustainable for many generations to come, why is it that we continue to denigrate one another? Ok, so maybe I’m coming off like Rodney King when he uttered that infamous line, “why can’t we just all get along…” "

Why can't we all just get along? First of all, because I loathe, despise - I HATE liars and cheats. Personally. Don't you? When someone is lying to your face and you know they are doing it on purpose, don't you just hate it? And when they do it over and over don't you just hate them after a while?

And about hate - as was pointed out to me, people don't hate each other when there is no 'stuff' on the line. It wouldn't matter to me or you or anyone what other people did or said if there was no loss of 'stuff'. Look at the Serbs v - well, just about everyone else. It wasn't that they were 'different' from their neighbors, it was about control of land and resources. The same with Rwanda.

The Alliance here believes in a system of great concentration of wealth (and political and social control to make that happen). The others see their payscales going down expenses zooming up (like gas and healthcare). Asking people on the downside to 'get along' with the people on the upside is like asking people to get along with their muggers and rapists.

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Friday, November 10, 2006 12:38 PM

HKCAVALIER

But Rue, what if you looked at it from an energetic standpoint? There's a ton of energy invested in hate. And what does it get ya? What benefit do you achieve from railing against the likes of AURaptor and Hero? These men have shown their true colors time and again. Even newbies to this board will see what these guys are up to after a few posts. I can totally understand blowing off steam on the Internet, but this is kind of a campaign with you. What is all your hate in aid of?

As to hating liars and cheats, I don't, at this point in my life. They make me pretty sad, honestly. I'll get pissed if someone's trying to hoodwink me right in front of my face, but I won't waste my hate on 'em.

People lie to my face seven times seven times a day, Rue. I'm exagerating, I suppose, but really, if you have an ego--and everyone has one--you lie, first and foremost to yourself. The ego wants control, wants protection. Lying creates the illusion of both, quite effectively. The ego never trusts, never lets go. If there's any letting go being done, it's letting go of that dang ego.

Seriously, I've done more than my share of hating in this lifetime, but I've learned that when I hate it takes a far greater toll on me than on the objects of my furry. Hate blinds. Hate binds us to the ones we hate.

And how are these liars to be stopped anyway? Why does someone stop lying? Because someone proves it? Has that ever worked on anyone? Ever?

People stop lying when the benefits of lying are outweighed by the costs. The primary cost of lying, in my experience, is dignity. All kinds of people go their whole lives without finding dignity. Also, self-respect, integrity, intimacy and trust. No one was ever bullied into valuing these. Maybe hate just makes the problem worse.

Now I'm not saying you gotta be Jesus or anything. I'm just asking you, asking everyone, to take a look at what's being contributing with the hate. It's abundantly clear to me that you're a deeply caring person, Rue, someone who creates a lot of positive change in your life and in the lives of those around you. Just from reading your posts on this board, I've benefited enormously from your extensive research and hard-won knowledge of a whole bunch of things, including the human heart.

Anyway, I don't have it all figgered out. My solution, such as it is, has been to post less and less frequently in these discussions. I miss participating, but I rarely find an in these days with all the name-calling and sock-puppetry. It's good to see you still engaged, still standing up for your values. I just don't see much value in taking the extra step of puting people down on top of it, y'know?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, November 10, 2006 12:58 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:

I just don't see much value in taking the extra step of puting people down on top of it, y'know?

Maybe we need a seperate "Real World Fight Club Discussions" where we could go all out, and actual potentially constructive political discussion could stay in here...
Then we could say "Take it outside, boys!"

(That sounds so shiny, heh heh)

"Rue, Chrisisall, Auraptor, Hero, TAKE IT OUTSIDE, BOYS!!"

Guess it would be used often, though

The last angry Chrisisall

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Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

HK,

As usual you have given me much to think about.

And I'm not sure where the hate in me comes from. I tolerate all sorts of things. But I have a 'thing' about lying and cheating. It seriously pisses me off. So what I need to do, I think, is try to figure out a different response.

What I DO know is that lies can't be allowed to stand. If they go unchallenged they gain credibility. At some point a lie turns into common knowledge - 'everyone knows ... it.'

Slightly off this exact topic, one of the things I think is that Air America (and affiliates) started puncturing the slick lying of the administration and the media lapdogs. For years everything you saw on the network 'news' was hunky-dory and Bush was god on earth. When Air America started broadcasting real and contrary facts, slowly the great media ship turned around. They were getting questions about the less than flattering stories they DIDN'T cover. Ever so begrudgingly little items got let out here and there on the 'official' network news most people accept. And it was the steady erosion of Bush's image that caused the swing in the voting. (And let's not forget the corporations and media jumping on the bandwagon - there were a lot of large last-minute donations and more Bush-damagings news items as the democrats came up in the polls.)

But it took people WITH INTENTION at countering administration lies that got this done. I don't believe truth will out. I think sometimes it has to be fought for.

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Friday, November 10, 2006 2:29 PM

PIRATEJENNY

Quote:
Originally posted by Eric:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/08/rumsfeld.ap/index.html

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, architect of an unpopular war in Iraq, intends to resign after six stormy years at the Pentagon, Republican officials said Wednesday.

Officials said Robert Gates, former head of the CIA, would replace Rumsfeld.

Here's one thing at least most of us can agree is a good thing

Rummy maybe out, but the guy they've replaced him with is no better, knowing Bush this guy is probably worse, less arrogant and flippant but worse.

Is it good that Rumsfeld is out, yes..but its not good that he's been replaced by someone who is worse.

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Friday, November 10, 2006 3:23 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
One wonders why you ever bother to comment given the above criteria, being that you know nothing about anything as post after post eloquently shows.

So, your reply is that I " know nothing about anything "? How old are you, 8 ? Guess I can expect a " I KNOW YOU, BUT WHAT AM I " retort from you next. Pathetic.

Quote:

Okay Kerry. I mean AURaptor.

translation: Raptor's correct, and I can't offer up a coherent excuse for saying what I did or muster up enough backbone to acknowledge his point. So I'll offer up a inane, glib response instead, and move on to something else.

I'll skip over the nonsense of the 2000 election, as there's never been any evidence to support it being stolen. And since the burden of proof lies upon the ones making that assertion, it's a moot issue.

Next....

Quote:
And actually I have heard a great deal of what he's said, been through his site you see, seems your typical extreme right wing talk show host to me, going on and on about how it's 'their fault'...

So, you've not listened to his show. Understandable, being you're across the pond. Oh sure, you've heard bits and pieces, selectively chosen small audio clips, or filtered comments of what he's said. Of course, you went in with a biased view of what he was like, so your opinion was slanted from the get go.

And even NBC's Matt Lauer confessed that Limbaugh wasn't so far off on his comments toward Michael J.Fox and the embryonic stem cell controversy, saying....

" Rush Limbaugh started a lot of controversy when he said perhaps Michael J. Fox is exaggerating or faking these effects of Parkinson's Disease in that ad promoting stem cell research. Didn't Rush Limbaugh just say what a lot of people are privately thinking? "

Once again, I disprove your childish claim that I never bring facts, when the truth is exactly 180 degrees from how you try to portray. Which makes since, seeing how you Brits even drive on the wrong side of the road.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, November 10, 2006 3:48 PM

America loves a winner!

Shame one me for not taking the trouble to post this before, as I honestly didn't think Citizen would be so daft and loose w/ the facts as to try to misrepreseont what I was talking about. On the issue of Rummy being a SOB, I pointed out that he's not the most accomodating guy, to which Citizen make the inane reply below :

Quote:
CITIZEN: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 15:51

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The dude definatly had his view on how things should be run, and damn anyone who asks him to explain it to them.

What a marvelous example of a man working within a democratic government.

I noted that the USA is a representitive republic, then I followed up by replying " Soldiers don't vote" , clearly meaning they don't vote on who gets to be SecDef. That position is appointed by the President, as member of his Cabinet. I THOUGHT that was understood, as we were talking SPECIFICALLY about Rumsfeld. And anyone who knows anything about military life in general understands that it is NOT a 'democratic' organization. A solider gets told to jump, they jump! There's no discussion on the matter. Soliders DO vote here in the USA, of course , in Primary and General elections. They vote for Commander in Chief, aka The President, just like everyone else. ( But unlike anyone else, if they happen to come from Florida, Dem lawyers might try to get a soldiers vote tossed out, especially in a recount

)

i'm sure that clears up any confusion. Even for Citizen.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, November 10, 2006 4:53 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

blah blah blah blah blah blah

and

blah blah blah.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 12:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
So, your reply is that I " know nothing about anything "? How old are you, 8 ? Guess I can expect a " I KNOW YOU, BUT WHAT AM I " retort from you next. Pathetic.

*YAWN* Isn't it time for you to call me, oh you already did, way to take the moral high ground kid.

Funny, you get the accusation of 'being an 8 year old' in first, and you think that makes you correct? One of the problems of have an 8 IQ I suppose.

Quote:
translation: Raptor's correct, and I can't offer up a coherent excuse for saying what I did or muster up enough backbone to acknowledge his point. So I'll offer up a inane, glib response instead, and move on to something else.

Translation: "Citizen has it dead right, shit, how do I spin my way out of it? I know tactic #1 #2 and #3 from the T.W.A.T.S. (Tossers, Wankers, Arseholes, Tactics and Strategy) Handbook should come in handy here, I'll lie, attack with a baseless ad hominem, lie and then feign ignorance of facts right in front of my face". My my, what a good T.W.A.T. you are.

Quote:
I'll skip over the nonsense of the 2000 election, as there's never been any evidence to support it being stolen. And since the burden of proof lies upon the ones making that assertion, it's a moot issue.

You've been proven wrong time and time again, so you are absolutely right, it is moot

Quote:
So, you've not listened to his show. Understandable, being you're across the pond. Oh sure, you've heard bits and pieces, selectively chosen small audio clips, or filtered comments of what he's said. Of course, you went in with a biased view of what he was like, so your opinion was slanted from the get go.

I see, so the only valid and proper interpretation of Rush's words are the one's made by his dedicated apologisers. It is sweet though, seeing so many people sharing something so openly. So AU which on of you has the brain cell this week?

Quote:
Once again, I disprove your childish claim that I never bring facts, when the truth is exactly 180 degrees from how you try to portray. Which makes since, seeing how you Brits even drive on the wrong side of the road.

Not really, but a very grown up insult there, "you brits drive on the wrong side of the road nah nah nah".

What's for you're next trick, telling me that we have a stupid poopy flag? Or that you're gang members are more violent than our gang members? Our president could have your PM in a fight? Go on, embarrass yourself further.

Hey informal poll: Whose the only person stupid enough to think AURaptor brings anything but hot air and brainless insults to a discussion?

My Votes for AU, any other takers?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 12:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Shame one me for not taking the trouble to post this before, as I honestly didn't think Citizen would be so daft and loose w/ the facts as to try to misrepreseont what I was talking about. On the issue of Rummy being a SOB, I pointed out that he's not the most accomodating guy, to which Citizen make the inane reply below :

So what you are saying is I'm right, Rummy-Boy is not a good representation of democracy. I fail to see why you put so much effort into the flame war to stop me from saying it then. Oh yes I do, I criticised the men you are in love with.

Quote:
I noted that the USA is a representitive republic,

Doesn't sound all that representative when it's top government officials feel they don't need to listen to anyone.

Quote:
then I followed up by replying " Soldiers don't vote" , clearly meaning they don't vote on who gets to be SecDef.

No clearly meaning soldiers don't vote, which is what you said. You didn't even try and spin it until other people came to the same independent conclusion as me. Freudian slip m'lord.

Quote:
That position is appointed by the President, as member of his Cabinet.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have a duty to represent the people of the country of the government, obviously you and he think differently, but you are both the kinds of people who like dictatorships, as long as you are the dictators.

Quote:
I THOUGHT that was understood, as we were talking SPECIFICALLY about Rumsfeld. And anyone who knows anything about military life in general understands that it is NOT a 'democratic' organization. A solider gets told to jump, they jump! There's no discussion on the matter. Soliders DO vote here in the USA, of course , in Primary and General elections. They vote for Commander in Chief, aka The President, just like everyone else. ( But unlike anyone else, if they happen to come from Florida, Dem lawyers might try to get a soldiers vote tossed out, especially in a recount )

You spin me right round
baby right round
like a liar baby
right round round round.

And you really don't learn do you. Everytime you try to prove you have this vast knowledge of the military and I know nothing all I have to do is point out the facts that I WORK for the military, and you're closest interaction there with is sitting in an armchair scream in abject joy at the sight of bombs going off in Baghdad.

Anyway, bye for awhile, I grow weary of listening to your brainless hate filled rhetoric.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 3:53 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
So what you are saying is I'm right, Rummy-Boy is not a good representation of democracy. I fail to see why you put so much effort into the flame war to stop me from saying it then. Oh yes I do, I criticised the men you are in love with.

No, as usual, you're wrong. He's not suppose to be a representation of democracy, moron. He's suppose to be in charge of the Armed Forces. Whether he does his job well or poorly,that's another issue and irrelevent with respect to the type of Gov't we have. He's not an elected official. Funny that you'd want to continue to argue this point, when there's no point TO argue. I guess you just like being a stubborn git.

Quote:
Doesn't sound all that representative when it's top government officials feel they don't need to listen to anyone.

A problem this country has had for a while now. Both parties are guilty of ignoring the people.

Quote:

No clearly meaning soldiers don't vote, which is what you said. You didn't even try and spin it until other people came to the same independent conclusion as me. Freudian slip m'lord

Actually, I saw folks who agreed w/ me. Except for the usual suspect or two, everyone else 'got' my meaning.

Quote:
That doesn't mean he doesn't have a duty to represent the people of the country of the government, obviously you and he think differently, but you are both the kinds of people who like dictatorships, as long as you are the dictators.

Yes, it does. He's not there representing anyone. He's there to do his job,and do it to the best of his ability. Again, he's NOT an elected offical. The SecDef isn't there to get a group consensus of how to run things. If he fails to do his job, he can be removed on a whim. Until then, he's in charge of running things in a manner he sees best. It's called BEING A LEADER. I love how you toss around the word 'dictator' like it's going out of style. How many captains does a ship have in your country?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Here's to one tough s.o.b. and a proud American.

I guess I apply a slightly higher standard to the term 'proud American'.

He's a disgrace, along all the other neo-cons who hi-jacked our nation. They're war criminals and should be treated as such.

SergeantX

One must wonder how you come to hate your country so much. Why didn't the 'neo-cons' hijack this election too? Simple answer, there was no hijacking in the 1st place. Get over yourself.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

I;m new here, but my advice is to not even dignify some of these posts with a reply. All these guys are trying to do is get you mad, and you're just

if you think you can convince them that what you think is right. I've found that out rather quickly because the place I work for is mostly made up of stubborn libs.

"That was sauteed in wrong sauce." -- Tommy Lee

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 5:28 AM

CARTOON

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
He's suppose to be in charge of the Armed Forces.

This is true.

Along these lines, the Defense Secretary's boss (the President of the United States), while being elected (and, as such -- answerable to the people at election time), is the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces. As Commander-in-chief he has the constitutional right to utilize the military as he sees fit -- without Congressional approval*.

*Yes, only Congress can "declare" war, and only Congress can spend money (i.e. fund the war), but as far as utilization of the military goes, the President calls the shots, not Congress (much to their chagrin).

I'm not aware of any "declared" war anywhere in the world since WWII. (I could have missed one or two, but I can't think of any offhand.) So, as wars don't seem to be formally "declared" these days, it would seem that Congress has lost one of their two abilities to have any decision regarding use of the military.

BTW, welcome to the thread, Stephs.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 6:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yes, it does. He's not there representing anyone. He's there to do his job,and do it to the best of his ability. Again, he's NOT an elected offical. The SecDef isn't there to get a group consensus of how to run things. If he fails to do his job, he can be removed on a whim. Until then, he's in charge of running things in a manner he sees best. It's called BEING A LEADER. I love how you toss around the word 'dictator' like it's going out of style. How many captains does a ship have in your country?

Okay I'm coming back for just this. All department heads, including the MOD, are picked from the elected representatives, the people decide who comprise the government, it's called Democracy. In your system all your officials are mates of GWB, it's called cronyism. It's not called 'being a leader' unless your the kind of sad pathetic little moron who enjoys being dictated to.

Which of course YOU are.

You don't understand democracy, in you're world it's a good thing that you vote for someone and then they decide who runs the government and those people couldn't give a toss what the people who in theory are supposed to run the country think (that would be the people). I get that you think the sentence is not "For the people by the people" but "For George Bush by George Bush". But I'm afraid not all of us masturbate furiously to the posters of GWB in our bedrooms.

Bye for now my backwards little pet troll.

(Go on, stamp your feet and tell me I'm the Troll, tell me you're telling it how it is, and I'm an immature coward, go on, prove me right, you know you want to).

And just in case anyone didn't get it, Stephs is Cartoons sock puppet, another one of his is called Prey.

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No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:40 AM

PHOENIXSHIP

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
I guess you just like being a stubborn git.

Auraptor,

First of all, how about being at least a little polite to our international friends? Plus, your immaturity doesn't further your arguments.

Secondly, it strikes me that you thrive in this environment. If you were to try to put these bizarre arguments in person, they'd never be accepted.

Thirdly, you're wrong. About everything.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:49 AM

Quote:
And just in case anyone didn't get it, Stephs is Cartoons sock puppet, another one of his is called Prey.

I am NOT anyone's sock puppet, thankyouverymuch! Now, do the world a favor and go see that guy with the horns and a pitchfork, because I think he's got a message for you.

"Osama bin Laden, you can kiss my royal Irish A**!" -- Mike Moran, FDNY

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by StephS:
I am NOT anyone's sock puppet, thankyouverymuch! Now, do the world a favor and go see that guy with the horns and a pitchfork, because I think he's got a message for you.

No Cartoon, God doesn't have a problem with people having opinions, God has a problem with violent religious fanatics like you.

But hey, you've shown your true colours, you want to kill anyone who thinks differently to you, nothing like a violent religious Evangalist.

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No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 8:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by StephS:
I am NOT anyone's sock puppet, thankyouverymuch! Now, do the world a favor and go see that guy with the horns and a pitchfork, because I think he's got a message for you.
No Cartoon, God doesn't have a problem with people having opinions, God has a problem with violent religious fanatics like you.

But hey, you've shown your true colours, you want to kill anyone who thinks differently to you, nothing like a violent religious Evangalist.

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No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

I am NOT Cartoon, and if you call me that once again your gorram post is being reported.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 8:04 AM

Okay Cartoon, report me. After that report yourself for threatening to kill me and of course, being a Troll.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 8:11 AM

Cartoon, if you haven't got the balls to say it for all to see, don't bother:

StephS of FIREFLYFANS.NET has sent you the following message:

-------------------------

They should call you COMMUNIST, jerk.

-------------------------

To respond to StephS, you can go here:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/showprofile.asp?un=StephS

I dare say they should call you FACIST, dick.

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No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 8:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Cartoon, if you haven't got the balls to say it for all to see, don't bother:

StephS of FIREFLYFANS.NET has sent you the following message:

-------------------------

They should call you COMMUNIST, jerk.

-------------------------

To respond to StephS, you can go here:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/showprofile.asp?un=StephS

I dare say they should call you FACIST, dick.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

What's the matter, steroids make you deaf?!? I am NOT Cartoon!

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 8:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Cartoon, if you haven't got the balls to say it for all to see, don't bother:

StephS of FIREFLYFANS.NET has sent you the following message:

-------------------------

They should call you COMMUNIST, jerk.

-------------------------

To respond to StephS, you can go here:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/showprofile.asp?un=StephS

I dare say they should call you FACIST, dick.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

What's the matter, steroids make you deaf?!? I am NOT Cartoon!

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 8:18 AM

What's the matter Cartoon, all that Bible thumping given you Brain damage? I ain't buyin' what you're sellin'.

Sayin it twice twice don't make it no smarter smarter.

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No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 8:54 AM

CARTOON

Hi, StephS,

A bit of advice. I learned long ago that there are certain people on the net you would do best to just totally ignore. I stopped reading anything made by certain posters a long time ago.

My suggestion. When you see the name of any person who has responded to you rudely, ignore them. That's the good thing about Instant Messaging and Forums -- they have an "iggy" button. But, in lieu of one in here, you will just have to skip past certain posts, unless you want to go on endlessly batting people who can't respond civilly if their lives depended on it.

However, for the sakes of those in here who do respond civilly (even when adamently opposed to another poster's viewpoint), please continue to partipate. You'll eventually learn which posters you can converse with in a reasonable fashion, and which need to be totally ignored.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 8:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
However, for the sakes of those in here who do respond civilly (even when adamently opposed to another poster's viewpoint), please continue to partipate. You'll eventually learn which posters you can converse with in a reasonable fashion, and which need to be totally ignored.

In other words not you, I've still got you're PM's by the way, might post them at some point, Car-troll.

Besides, isn't it time you were getting to your KKK meeting?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
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Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:23 AM

America loves a winner!

I've been more than civil towards Citizen. He's the one who always brings it down into the gutter. I've since stopped trying to play nice to one who doesn't deserve it.

There are no bizare arguments. If you can refute me about an issue, let's hear it. Saying I'm wrong about everything is about as childish as it gets.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:25 AM

America loves a winner!

citizen - You are the troll, and it's good that you at least admit that. You clearly aren't making any sort of arguement to refute me.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I've been more than civil towards Citizen.

You must have some bizarre form of Cyber tourettes, or a mental condition of some sort, you've not been civil to anyone, pretty much ever.

Quote:
[N]He's the one who always brings it down into the gutter. I've since stopped trying to play nice to one who doesn't deserve it.

Very true, if we turn this statement around on you.

Quote:
Saying I'm wrong about everything is about as childish as it gets.

If it was anyone but you this would be true, as it is it's more insightfull than Childish.

You are a troll, and you have just confirmed that, I'm drawing up a short list, expect to see you're name on it soon Troll boy. It's not worth refuting any arguments you make, that is on the very rare occasion you make any. Most of the time they've already been refuted, other times even when they're torn to shreds you just repeat them or run away from the thread.

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No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 4:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
Hi, StephS,

A bit of advice. I learned long ago that there are certain people on the net you would do best to just totally ignore. I stopped reading anything made by certain posters a long time ago.

My suggestion. When you see the name of any person who has responded to you rudely, ignore them. That's the good thing about Instant Messaging and Forums -- they have an "iggy" button. But, in lieu of one in here, you will just have to skip past certain posts, unless you want to go on endlessly batting people who can't respond civilly if their lives depended on it.

However, for the sakes of those in here who do respond civilly (even when adamently opposed to another poster's viewpoint), please continue to partipate. You'll eventually learn which posters you can converse with in a reasonable fashion, and which need to be totally ignored.

Thanks for the advice. I guess the old saying is true: Don't feed the trolls.

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 7:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by StephS:
Thanks for the advice. I guess the old saying is true: Don't feed the trolls.

Which is why most people won't reply to you or your master, sock puppet.

Just want the record to show who it was that wanted death for people they disagreed with (StephS, AKA Prey AKA Cartoon).

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 7:24 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Ripped, you had ONE semi-polite response before you started trolling - and your trolling was before Citizen came in. And after you started trolling, you had only ONE polite response - to Zero. Why is that?

You response to SergeantX
One must wonder how you come to hate your country so much.

Your NEXT response to SergeantX
You toss around charges like 'war criminals' with such reckless disregard ...
Riiight. That makes no sense what so ever. I suppose you had to come up with some answer, but this was the best you had ?

Your response to ChrisIsAll
You're not offering any rebuttle, just the delusion that things MUST be bad. Why ? Because you hate Bush

Not only that, you LOVE to pick and chose your facts and NEVER back them up: We've talked about the economy before, haven't we ...

Here you're saying
"Great economy, 4.4% unemployment, low interest rates, most home ownership in nation's history"

Now in THIS thread (which you started) "Despite what doom/gloomers say, economy roars on."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=20330
You said it was
U.S. Stocks Rise (check)
services index (?)
factory orders (?)
US Federal Reserve will keep hiking interest rates to rein in inflation (NO)

In a PREVIOUS thread you said it was
U.S. consumer confidence (NO)
sales of existing homes (NO !!!)
consumer spending (?)
Which you amended to
rate of growth is high ( 4.8 % ) (?)
unemployment is down

TROLL, TROLL TROLL
YOUR POSTS
GENTLY DOWN THE SCREEN
NASTILY, NASTILY, NASTILY, NASTILY
ASS-WIPE'S TWISTED DREAM

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 7:34 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

StephS

And what's with your PM ? I mean, really, don't you think that stuff gets around ?

And WHY would you think Citizen is a troll and completely ignore all the trolling done by 'your side' ? C'mon, do you really believe people are so easily fooled ? Do you really think people won't get a clue as to what YOU are about from your posts ?

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 7:41 AM

America loves a winner!

rue - I'm right, and neither you or citizen even try to debunk me. So all you have left is trolling. Then you call others trolls, when it's you who is clearly the troll.

Kids these days. Sheeesh!

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 7:56 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Oh asswipe, you CARE !
I have lots and lots of civil discussions with many people here on this fine site. Your discussions with others? Not so much.

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 8:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Oh asswipe, you CARE !
I have lots and lots of civil discussions with many people here on this fine site. Your discussions with others? Not so much.

I've noticed this. AU says "TROLL!" and although I play rough on probably more occasions than I should I have also shown myself capable of having a discussion with people I disagree with. Compare this to AU, who has only made a civil post toward people who parrot his viewpoint.

My major fault is I tend to reply to people as they speak to me, yours seems to be likewise that you talk to people as they deserve. Really why should we converse with people politely while they spew virtiol like an Alcoholic after a dodgy kebab?

And of course StephS, the 'not a Cartoon sock puppet' that has a turn of phrase rather similar to his, turns up all of a sudden to echo his position (just as Prey did once) and whose first impulse is to accuse anyone who has an alternate opinion as a Troll. Or in my case should be killed.

However bad I am I have never called nor hoped for the death of someone because they have a differing opinion. Obviously for the extreme Right wing nutcases this is reasonable. Wasn't there another group in recent history that had a similar outlook?

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 8:50 AM