How to Write a Conspiracy Theory by AnthonyT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Another good one! *Claps for Rue*

Simple, believable, to the point.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, January 18, 2007 8:42 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

These are hilarious. Keep em coming boys.

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

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Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:27 PM

How about this one. Even easier.

Al Queda is a pseudo independent militant organization set up by Saudi Intelligence and funded in part initially by the US to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. After that war is over and believing themselves invincible they start sniping at US interests, in part because of continued US support for Israel and in part because of fear of the US making progress in Mid east peace talks.

In 1999 they start into a plan involving the idea of using commercial jets as terror weapons. By 2001 word gets back to their Saudi Intelligence handlers that "something big" is brewing and that this will be in the form of an attack on America. This is passed to the US officials.

Various people in the new Whitehouse team have been drawing up legislation in the event of a terrorist attack. Such an attack happed in 1993, various attempts have been brewing since then and have been averted. Law of averages say that they have to get lucky sometime. In parallel to this effort plans are made to end the Saddam regime through direct military action. It is understood that justification for such a move would be difficult but it is hoped that either he will bring it on himself by successfully shooting down an alliance jet enforcing the no fly zone or that the "intel" provided by Iraqi defectors will spur the UN to act.

Word reaches Washington via the Saudi's that a Al Q attack on US soil is imminent. After the African embassy bombings and the USS Cole the government knows it will have no dificulty selling the threat of militant Islamist terrorism at home even if the AL Q group doesn't get a chance to fully play out it's plan. The government waits, neither helping or hindering the plans in progress.

When the 9/11 attacks happen the government is genuinely surprised. It was expecting a truck bomb or an attack on a school or shopping Mall (see what they told us to watch for just after 9/11.) When the buildings actually collapse they realise that this is more than they could have hoped for --- better as a justification than Pearl Harbor. In fact it is SO good that the Iraq contingency plan is dusted off and efforts made to link it to 9/11.

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Friday, January 19, 2007 2:59 AM

ARCLIGHT

Cratering to the demands of environmentalist wackos and other elements of the lunatic fringe, the Bush administration attempting to combat the effects of Man-Made Global Warming unleashes a massive hard freeze in central kalifornia. Prices of Haliburton owned stocks in citrus producing companies skyrockets. Vice President Richard Cheney, in drunken celebratory glee mistakes a passing nun for a penguin and shoots her in the face with a shotgun.

…and the band played on.

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Friday, January 19, 2007 5:51 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
In my opinion, this is a much simpler and more believable conspiracy theory than most of the ones foisted upon us by conspiracy theorists.

What about the conspiracy the cover up the truth about 9/11 (that it simply was an attack by Al Queda terrorists using hyjacked airplanes) by coming up with all these conspiracy theories?

You see all the great conspiracies were winding down, folk were losing interest. So all the conspiracy folk got together to invent a new conspiracy. Originally they intended to have the great "Orchestrated Fall of the Phoney Communism Causes Global Warming at BehestCaused by Corporate Air Conditioning Interests Controlled by Jews Fronting for the Knights Templar". But the 9/11 happened so they took up the "Bush behind 9/11" banner instead.

JFK, Elvis, Aliens, they are all old news, now they have a whole bunch of books, movies, and websites.

H

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Friday, January 19, 2007 6:01 AM

CAUSAL

Personally, I blame the Bush administration.

Oh, wait; we're already doing that. Well, then, carry on.

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets

I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

Vote Firefly! http://www.richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html

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Friday, January 19, 2007 6:16 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
In my opinion, this is a much simpler and more believable conspiracy theory than most of the ones foisted upon us by conspiracy theorists.

What about the conspiracy the cover up the truth about 9/11 (that it simply was an attack by Al Queda terrorists using hyjacked airplanes) by coming up with all these conspiracy theories?

You see all the great conspiracies were winding down, folk were losing interest. So all the conspiracy folk got together to invent a new conspiracy. Originally they intended to have the great "Orchestrated Fall of the Phoney Communism Causes Global Warming at BehestCaused by Corporate Air Conditioning Interests Controlled by Jews Fronting for the Knights Templar". But the 9/11 happened so they took up the "Bush behind 9/11" banner instead.

JFK, Elvis, Aliens, they are all old news, now they have a whole bunch of books, movies, and websites.

H

How insidious of you, Hero. Are you suggesting that if there were no new conspiracy theories, then Conspiracy Theorists would become utterly unimportant, even as subjects of ridicule, or owners of 'controversial' web sites and radio stations, or even subjects of 5 minute spots on Sci-Fi channel television shows?

And that THEY have something to gain from conspiracy theories themselves?

Ho ho! Sorry, Hero, that's just TOO unbelievable! ;-)

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, January 19, 2007 4:18 PM

Quote:
Anthony T wrote- How to Write A Conspiracy Theory

Hello,

Having recently perused some wild and wacky conspiracy theories about 9/11 on this board, I thought I'd give a lesson to conspiracy theorists about how to concoct future conspiracy theories. I believe the secret to a good conspiracy theory is that it be simple and believable. Now, conspiracy theories by nature require some level of complexity to make them appealing. but I think you'll see how this works without planting demolitions, launching missiles, remote-controlled jets, or making weird disembarkations of passengers.

i disagree with your premise, conspiracy theories are not complex for 'appeal', but out of neccessity, in order to stay concealed. a larger, more complex conspiracy defies belief, as is clearly witnessed on these boards, and so this is COUNTED ON, since most people cannot fathom how far back the mechanisms of control reach.

if youve studies secret societies at all, they use the pyramid to represent a scale of enlightenment, and as the pyramid descends(from the eye of Lucifer) towards the base, the knowledge or 'light' tapers off, signifying the less aware or un-enlightened masses. a corporation only has a few people at the top making decisions, and from there it is compartmentalized all the way down to the lowly grunt worker; the worker does not need to know anything more than his task, yet still remains a 'cog in the machine' for the people at the top. take a look at any institution or organization and youll understand that this type of heirarchial micromanagement is a constant throughout history, and was conjured up from the beginning to rule over people. all that is needed is for the men at the top of all sectors to collude for mutual benefit, to establish an idealogy, a contract, and to relay and manifest this agenda through the pyramidal structure within each corporation. so when 125 of the world elite meet at the bilderberg conference once a year(under media blackout), you can bet theyre not just 'shooting the breeze'..

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Friday, January 19, 2007 4:49 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Ah, Antimason, then you will never win.

Because if the Conspirators create a version of events that is plausible, and you propose one that is not plausible, they win.

Create better conspiracy theories. Or you lose.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, January 19, 2007 5:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

What about the conspiracy the cover up the truth about 9/11 (that it simply was an attack by Al Queda terrorists using hyjacked airplanes) by coming up with all these conspiracy theories?

what about the conspiracy to coverup the conspiracy?

but im curious.. in your opinion, what is our motive? is it pure paranoia, or is it a secret hatred of America?

Quote:
You see all the great conspiracies were winding down, folk were losing interest. So all the conspiracy folk got together to invent a new conspiracy.

actually we got together, prewired building 7, coerced Bush to sign 199i(stay off Bin Laden trail), trained some terrorists at US military bases, made some money on the stock market, removed the transponders from the planes, distracted NORAD, and among other things.. removed any sign of a plane from the pentagon, along with all video footage

Quote:
Originally they intended to have the great "Orchestrated Fall of the Phoney Communism Causes Global Warming at BehestCaused by Corporate Air Conditioning Interests Controlled by Jews Fronting for the Knights Templar". But the 9/11 happened so they took up the "Bush behind 9/11" banner instead.

would Bush be president if it werent for his membership in the satanic skull and bones society? maybe.. because his family has a traitorous reputation and were entrenched sufficiently to shut up about things.. but if wasnt him, it would have been fellow bonesman Kerry, of the 'order of death'

Quote:
JFK, Elvis, Aliens, they are all old news, now they have a whole bunch of books, movies, and websites.

oh, but dont forget, we're out to make money too. only wait, we have no mainstream cable networks.. hmm? thats strange, wheres our money coming from, since we're denied a public platform? FOX, CNN, NBC.. theyre all private corporations, out entirely for money.. who admittedly propogate the establishments viewpoint and purpetuate their false political paradigm; but you dont think they have an alterior motive?

i dont appreciate being implicitly referred to as a terrorist, because i doubt and scrutinize the government.. something the corporate media mouthpieces like Sean Hannity dont have the balls to do( but the sheer amount of propoganda makes it crystal clear anyways that theyve got their nose up the pentagons asshole). in the end we have no motive in all of this but the truth, which is something that is becoming an antonymn to government

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Friday, January 19, 2007 5:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Ah, Antimason, then you will never win.

Because if the Conspirators create a version of events that is plausible, and you propose one that is not plausible, they win.

Create better conspiracy theories. Or you lose.

9/11 seems intricate because it was- if it could possibly have been explained solely by 19 hijackers and some negligent politicians, then it would have been... but the reality is that only a far reaching element within government could have pulled it off; claiming 19 hijackers did it out of the blue is a little more difficult to explain. i have no need to base an arguement on false/fabricated evidence, we claim the buildings were prewired with thermate because THEY FOUND TRACES OF IT AMONG THE DEBRIS! on its own that would sound 'crazy'.. but if that seems unlikely, what are the odds that Bushs bro Marvin operated Securacom, the company in charge of tower security? i didnt peice this together out of my own clever ingenuity, its a fact.. just like the CIA insider trading and numerous warnings from other intelligence agencies etc etc. oversimplifying the evidence just damages the case for those who want to expose the roots of the conspiracy, not just the shallow visible surface

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Friday, January 19, 2007 6:22 PM

Intricate plans don't work. Ask Napoleon.

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Friday, January 19, 2007 7:20 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"i dont appreciate being implicitly referred to as a terrorist, because i doubt and scrutinize the government.."

I don't think anybody has implied that you are a terrorist. A lot of people imply that you are off your rocker.

But anyways, try to answer me these questions:

1) What is the desired effect of the 9/11 conspiracy?

2) Why could this effect not be achieved without planting explosives (Thermite, even!) within the Twin Towers?

3) You say traces of Thermite were discovered in the wreckage of the towers. What, specifically was found, and by whom? Do you have copies of the reports in question?

4) Why was it necessary to use a (missile/military jet) to strike the Pentagon, when regular commercial airliners were available for the job, and would fit the bill of goods the authorities are trying to sell?

5) Why would you disembark a plane full of people and then fake the crash of their plane, when it is easier to actually crash the plane they are on?

Please take on these points, one by one, as I have presented them. Please avoid tangents like Satanic worshipping and Skull and Bones unless they are directly related to these points.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, January 19, 2007 8:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"i dont appreciate being implicitly referred to as a terrorist, because i doubt and scrutinize the government.."

I don't think anybody has implied that you are a terrorist. A lot of people imply that you are off your rocker.

But anyways, try to answer me these questions:

1) What is the desired effect of the 9/11 conspiracy?

2) Why could this effect not be achieved without planting explosives (Thermite, even!) within the Twin Towers?

3) You say traces of Thermite were discovered in the wreckage of the towers. What, specifically was found, and by whom? Do you have copies of the reports in question?

4) Why was it necessary to use a (missile/military jet) to strike the Pentagon, when regular commercial airliners were available for the job, and would fit the bill of goods the authorities are trying to sell?

5) Why would you disembark a plane full of people and then fake the crash of their plane, when it is easier to actually crash the plane they are on?

Please take on these points, one by one, as I have presented them. Please avoid tangents like Satanic worshipping and Skull and Bones unless they are directly related to these points.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

Anthony, you rock.

"I cannot abide useless people."

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Friday, January 19, 2007 10:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"i dont appreciate being implicitly referred to as a terrorist, because i doubt and scrutinize the government.."

I don't think anybody has implied that you are a terrorist. A lot of people imply that you are off your rocker.

exactly, we're either crazy, or terrorists.. but theres no possibility that we're onto something?

Quote:
But anyways, try to answer me these questions:

1) What is the desired effect of the 9/11 conspiracy?

it most likely serves many purposes, but most importantly to bring America under a one world government

Quote:
2) Why could this effect not be achieved without planting explosives (Thermite, even!) within the Twin Towers?

because maybe the planes alone werent sufficient to bring the towers down, and this was taken into consideration; if youre asking me why the towers needed to collapse, then its a matter of symbolism(like Hitlers Reichstag fire). if the buildings werent destroyed in such a polarizing manner, and than driven into our heads by the media, the emotional build up for a war on terror or in Iraq just would not have persisted.

Quote:
3) You say traces of Thermite were discovered in the wreckage of the towers. What, specifically was found, and by whom? Do you have copies of the reports in question?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4884818450327382904

Quote:
4) Why was it necessary to use a (missile/military jet) to strike the Pentagon, when regular commercial airliners were available for the job, and would fit the bill of goods the authorities are trying to sell?

im not sure.. but lets talk about what was found; its no conspiracy that all the film has been confiscated, no wreckage has ever been shown, and the original photos show an impact crater that could not possibly have come from a commercial airliner

Quote:
5) Why would you disembark a plane full of people and then fake the crash of their plane, when it is easier to actually crash the plane they are on?

why create a false flag terror event to begin with? what do they care.. the purpose is to fullfill an agenda, its all a means to an end.. if they need to turn transponders off and set up CIA decoy drills they will

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Friday, January 19, 2007 11:05 PM

Seems to me.

1) You don't need to bring the towers down to get our attention or to make the American people mad enough to endorse the administration's agenda if that was the objective. The loss of life alone would be enough. As I stated before I think this delusion of yours is a coping mechanism to deal with the fact that you just can't believe that the Towers could be destroyed by the jets alone. So even though the conspiracy you are talking about would be a million times more difficult and infinately more likely to be discovered, you prefer it to the real event because it's more satisfying. It's like bank robberies, most real ones involve a handfull of men and if they are successfull take less than 3 minutes, but reality isn't thrilling enough, so when Hollywood does a bank robbery there is an intricate plan, lots of robbers and fancy gadgets. Reality is often not as satisfing as fiction.

2) If you plan to ram a jet into a building probably killing a minimum of 200 folks inside, you wouldn't bother to disembark the 40 or so on the plane. Generally mass murderers don't have scruples. You turn transponders off to make it harder for the plane to be tracked from the ground and hopefully delay interception. What the hijackers did on the day shows that they had planned for the possibility of a USAF interception, something they would have known wouldn't happen if the US military was in on the plot.

What I think we've proven here is that the conspiracy you are presenting is far more elaborate, cumbersome and risky than any number of ways the administration COULD have used to create the same event. In planning something you always t6ry to go with the simple plan and remove as many variables as possible. Bear in mind that if a plan like this was discovered almost everbody involved would be guilty of treason. You would want to remove every posibility of failure and keep it as simple as you could.

It's magic thinking. You are psychologically incapable of accepting that 19 nobodies with a few thousand dollars and a grudge could do an end run around a million man defence department and destroy a billion dollar building. If that were possible then you could never be safe, because you can find 19 guys with a grudge anywhere. In addition though you think the government is crooked you have a patriotic streak, part of you doesn't want to believe that 19 bozo's could successfully attack the US of A. It's shaming and humiliating. It is better to imagine that some traitor did this --- that powerfull America did this to herself --- than to live with the humiliation that this was planned by losers sitting in a cave in Afghanistan. It's like "The Mouse that Roared" you don't want to admit the US was beaten up by the dutchy of Gran Fenwick.

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 6:01 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4884818450327382904

Like any good conspiracy theorist, Professor Jones has substituted an overly elaborate solution for a simple one. First of all, I’ll address your initial claim, because it is not Professor Jones’ claim. To my knowledge thermite/thermate was not found among WTC wreckage. While thermite/thermate residue may have been found by someone, this really tells us nothing, because these residues (aluminum compounds and sulfur) are present in the construction materials used to build the WTC and most other modern buildings.

Now Professor Jones’ claim is not that these residues (much less the actual thermite) were found, in fact he agrees that such residue would be indistinguishable from construction residue, but rather that the molten stream appearing from the impact site of WTC2 was inconsistent with pure molten aluminum and therefore must have been molten steel, which Professor Jones contends could only have been created by a thermite reaction. He presents no evidence of this other then the fact that molten aluminum alloys, at ~500-600ºC, does not radiate in the visible and therefore appears silvery in contrast to molten steel (at temperatures deemed inconsistent with low-oxygen burning jet fuel). So Professor Jones proposes this elaborate conclusion that some thermite reaction must be present, and that the steel beams in the WTC were thermally cut using some thermite reaction.

The problem with this is that there is no evidence for it, and it is based on a strawman. No one has ever argued that the molten stream appearing from WTC2 was pure aluminum. There is no conceivable way in which the airframe could have melted into pure molten aluminum alloys. There would have been, at the very least paint and insulation mixed with the aluminum, along with any number of countless debris picked up within the WTC. This debris in the molten aluminum would have caused the stream to radiate very visibly yellow to red, which is precisely what we see.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:13 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"i dont appreciate being implicitly referred to as a terrorist, because i doubt and scrutinize the government.."

I don't think anybody has implied that you are a terrorist. A lot of people imply that you are off your rocker.

exactly, we're either crazy, or terrorists.. but theres no possibility that we're onto something?

Of course there's the possibility that you're on to something. But you've done nothing to bolster that possibility. By the way, stop with the terrorist thing already. No one thinks you are a terrorist.

Quote:

Quote:
But anyways, try to answer me these questions:

1) What is the desired effect of the 9/11 conspiracy?

it most likely serves many purposes, but most importantly to bring America under a one world government

Okay, I was looking for an immediate effect, like, 'scare folks.' But I'll take your answer.

Quote:

Quote:
2) Why could this effect not be achieved without planting explosives (Thermite, even!) within the Twin Towers?

because maybe the planes alone werent sufficient to bring the towers down, and this was taken into consideration; if youre asking me why the towers needed to collapse, then its a matter of symbolism(like Hitlers Reichstag fire). if the buildings werent destroyed in such a polarizing manner, and than driven into our heads by the media, the emotional build up for a war on terror or in Iraq just would not have persisted.

Two planes crash into a building, killing hundreds instantly. Burning fuel threatens hundreds more. People, filled with fear, jump to their deaths and splatter on the asphalt. Hundreds escape with harrowing details of terror and feelings of helplessness. The news airs footage of this 24/7. Eventually, the World Trade Center buildings are declared condemned and are manually demolished. No one feels safe any more.

Nope. No buildings needed to fall. And I'd have been plenty enraged enough to do everything I did, no matter whether they fell or not.

Quote:

Quote:
3) You say traces of Thermite were discovered in the wreckage of the towers. What, specifically was found, and by whom? Do you have copies of the reports in question?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4884818450327382904

Okay, so no actual Thermite was found by anyone. It was inferred by faulty logic.

Thermite, incidentally, is Aluminum and Iron Oxide. It burns at the remarkable temperature of 4000 degrees, hotter than the suface of the sun. More remarkable, thermite can't be ignited with just anything, you need other exotic components, like magnesium, to set it off. This is because it ignites at 1,400 degrees. Remember, Thermite is Aluminum and Rusty Iron. It's burning metal. There are a lot better materials to use to weaken structures than thermite. Also remember, if you had magnesium, which burns at 1,400 degrees, you wouldn't NEED the Thermite. Silly Rabbit. You got complicated for no reason again.

Thermite Data Sheet: http://www.unitednuclear.com/thermitemsds.htm

Quote:

Quote:
4) Why was it necessary to use a (missile/military jet) to strike the Pentagon, when regular commercial airliners were available for the job, and would fit the bill of goods the authorities are trying to sell?

im not sure.. but lets talk about what was found; its no conspiracy that all the film has been confiscated, no wreckage has ever been shown, and the original photos show an impact crater that could not possibly have come from a commercial airliner

You're not sure? That's compelling. There is no reason a military jet/missile needed to be used. You're right that it's no conspiracy that all film has been confiscated. They do that during an investigation, for perfectly legitimate reasons. As for an impact crater that 'could not possible have come from a commercial airliner' that's a completely subjective and unsupported statement on your part. Don't worry, I'm sure you have reams of evidence waiting around the corner.

Quote:

Quote:
5) Why would you disembark a plane full of people and then fake the crash of their plane, when it is easier to actually crash the plane they are on?

why create a false flag terror event to begin with? what do they care.. the purpose is to fullfill an agenda, its all a means to an end.. if they need to turn transponders off and set up CIA decoy drills they will

This is the second question in a row that you failed to answer. "If they need to, they will!" But they don't need to, so they didn't. Thanks for playing.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:39 AM

Quote:
antimason- why create a false flag terror event to begin with? what do they care.. the purpose is to fullfill an agenda, its all a means to an end.. if they need to turn transponders off and set up CIA decoy drills they will

Quote:
AnthonyT- This is the second question in a row that you failed to answer. "If they need to, they will!" But they don't need to, so they didn't. Thanks for playing.

well you never answered my question, which is why elements within government would stage false flag terror on their own citizens to begin with? the answeres obvious.. to fullfill an agenda... so if bringing down 2 buildings, including one acrossed the street, which wasnt even hit by a plane, is neccessary to condition people.. then so be it. why did larry silverstien, the buildings owner, take out an incredibly comprehensive insurance plan just months prior to the buildings destruction... just a lucky guess i suspect huh? and the PNAC documents calling for a 'new pearl harbor'.. that was just wishful thinking?

bottom line is your telling me what you need to hear, in order to believe the evidence, and im showing you that the evidence speaks for itself, if only you are willing to accept it

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:45 AM

Wasn't Silverstien in legal ranglings over his insurance for the last 4 years? I'd hardly call that comprehensive. In addition he didn't own the building, he rented it. In most juristictions renters have to take insurance on a building so the owners property is protected in the case the renter does something stupid. Likewise when you have a morgage you have insurance on a building as a condition of the loan because the bank doesnt want to risk it's investment.

As for the PNAC thing, its not that uncommon for think tanks to discuss conditions needed for certain types of policy to be possible. That doesnt even mean they WANT the condition to happen much less that they organised it.

For example at $3 a gallon first generation hybrid vehicles just pay for the extra cost of production in savings at the pump. So if someone asked me to write a paper discussing the situations in which unversal adoption of hybrids were likely I might say that it would require prices of $4 a gallon or better. That doesnt mean I want gas to be $4 a gallon or that if it rose to $4 a gallon that I'd somehow orchestrated that to push my "agenda" of universal hybrid acceptance.

The British government actually commisions "blue sky" documents from experts. If X happened what would be the result? These are not documents planing to do X, these are documents to get an idea what you could do if X happened.

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
the evidence speaks for itself, if only you are willing to accept it

Isn't that what people say about God?

I'm not saying that God isn't real, I'm just saying that it is something based in belief, not necessarily on facts.

Which is exactly what you're asking us to do. Believe in something for which there is no basis in fact. This is a real life event though, not something to do with Theology or faith.

"I cannot abide useless people" -old man, "Shindig"

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 2:38 PM

Quote:
FLETCH2-
As for the PNAC thing, its not that uncommon for think tanks to discuss conditions needed for certain types of policy to be possible. That doesnt even mean they WANT the condition to happen much less that they organised it.

are you some kind of elite apologist? i guess Bush doesnt mean to allow the rape of America by Mexico.. we genuinely just cant control the borders, huh? its rediculous, but its the same logic..

have you read through the PNAC documents? if your gonna tell me that our foreign policy, which is ohh so identical to the PNAC strategy, in fact just happened by chance.. then your crazy. its been 7 years since the last of those documents was published, and theyve foretold almost to a T our foreign policy; that kind of thing.. especially when it requires trillions of dollars and immense political support... just doesnt happen by accident, ok?

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 3:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BuffaloPhil:

Which is exactly what you're asking us to do. Believe in something for which there is no basis in fact.

"there are none more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free"

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 3:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
Quote:
Originally posted by BuffaloPhil:

Which is exactly what you're asking us to do. Believe in something for which there is no basis in fact.

"there are none more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free"

I see that you completely avoided denying that you have no basis in true fact for your argument.

And how am I not free? I can see right now that I can do anything that anyone could do before Bush came along. Or the neonazis. You should seriously consider seeing a psychiatrist, I'm pretty sure you're paranoid.

In fact, name one thing I can't do now that I could have done before the Bush administration.
"I cannot abide useless people" -old man, "Shindig"

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 4:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BuffaloPhil:
I see that you completely avoided denying that you have no basis in true fact for your argument.

your statement was too vague, subjective and innaccurate, so what did you want me to respond to? are you denying Marvin Bush worked for Securacom? or that CIA members were linked to insider trading the morning of 9/11? those are facts, friend.. but maybe theyre irrelevant to you, because you have no use for them in your magic bullet government propoganda story you worship

there is a broader motive, supported by the central banks, for global government, and its been admitted by guys like Rockefeller and Kissinger for years, but the masses at the bottom of the pyramid choose to remain ignorant about it. that was the real motive behind 9/11.. not religion, like you were lead to believe

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 5:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:

your statement was too vague, subjective and innaccurate, so what did you want me to respond to? are you denying Marvin Bush worked for Securacom? or that CIA members were linked to insider trading the morning of 9/11? those are facts, friend.. but maybe theyre irrelevant to you, because you have no use for them in your magic bullet government propoganda story you worship

there is a broader motive, supported by the central banks, for global government, and its been admitted by guys like Rockefeller and Kissinger for years, but the masses at the bottom of the pyramid choose to remain ignorant about it. that was the real motive behind 9/11.. not religion, like you were lead to believe

Ok I was vague. But I don't "worship" the magic bullet story. Besides, define "CIA agents were 'linked' to inside traders." Hell, that could mean something like "they sneezed on an inside trader" or were related to one. I think your conspiracy theory is far to complex to work. Like that one guy said, "Complex plans don't work. Ask Napoleon."

I have no illusions about the state of our government, I know that they're not what they seem to be. I simply see no motivation for the government to be as stupid as to do all the things that you claim they did on 9/11.

If there is a movement for a global government, I don't see how they're getting anywhere anyway. Truth be told, I think we're all looking at this thing the wrong way. I don't know the right way, but hey, I've got time...I hope.

"I cannot abide useless people" -old man, "Shindig"

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 6:03 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

I gave you five points to answer. You couldn't answer them all, and one of them was answered with a question.

Of those you did answer, your answer was hardly comprised of proof.

You failed, Antimason. Stop arguing, and get better evidence.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 6:42 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Harpers Magazine vs Official Conspiracy Theory October 2004
www.harpers.org/WhitewashAsPublicService.html
www.harpers.org/Newsstand200410.html

NEVER FORGET: CIA HQ FELL DOWN IN 6 SECONDS
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/ar/t1956.htm

Quote:

PNTV WORLD EXCLUSIVE: All 24 hours from American Scholars Symposium
www.piratenews.org/911con.html

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks.”
—Usama bin Laden, CNN, "Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks," September 17, 2001
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming."
—Dick Cheney, "Interview of the Vice President by Tony Snow", March 29, 2006
www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060329-2.html

QUESTION: "Mr President, in your speeches, you rarely mention Osama Bin Laden. Why is that?"
GEORGE BUSH JR: "I don't know where he is. I just don't spend that much time on him."

"9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”
—FBI agent Rex Tomb, June 6, 2006
www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

"The goal has never been to get Bin Laden."
—General Richard Myers, chairman, US Joint Chiefs of Staff
www.myspace.com/911pressfortruth

OPERATION NORTHWOODS - the signed confession by US Govt for perping terrorist attacks in USA
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

"THE HANGMAN EQUALS DEATH!
THE DEVIL EQUALS DEATH!
DEATH EQUALS DEATH!"
-Initiation ritual in Yale University's Skull & Bones Senior Secret Society, New Haven, Connecticut (Ron Rosenbaum, New York Observer, "At Skull and Bones, Bush's Secret Club Initiates Ream Gore," 4/2/01)
www.prisonplanet.com/initiates_ream_gore.html

"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th; malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists, themselves, away from the guilty."
-Junior Bush, United Nations Corporation, November 10, 2001
www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/11/20011110-3.html

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, heh heh heh, just so long as I'm the dictator, heh heh heh."
-Junior Bush, convicted drunk driver, convicted cokehead, arrested for vandalism, arrested for theft, convicted AWOL, convicted of disobeying a lawful order for drug test, demoted from pilot to mail clerk, sentenced to 6 months extra duty for desertion of Vietnam Wars, sued for rape, currently sued under RICO Act for perping the 9/11 terrorist massacres, performs ritual human sacrifice to Molech/Lucifer/Satan at Bohemian Grove, faggot sodomite who masterbates in coffins with Victor Victoria Ashe
www.vestigialconscience.com/bush-dictator.mpeg
www.suetheterrorists.net
www.911forthetruth.com

Bush Gang and Bill Clinton-Blythe Rockefeller performing "mock" human sacrifice to 50-foot tall idol of Molech/Lucifer/Satan at Bohemian Grove. That's a "live" human body burning as it screams in agony over the loudspeakers. Photo copyright Bohemian Club annual yearbook
http://www.43places.com/places/view/379646

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove and The Order of Death
Two documentaries in one - An employee of Bohemian Grove presidential compound used undercover video to capture the 50-foot-tall idol of Molech and "mock" human sacrifice up close and in broad daylight - Undercover video by Infowars.com
http://www.lastingnetworks.com/alex/

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Boners at Bohemian Grove
Music video by Counter Coup and John Lee
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2740234893142263113&q=boners+a
t+bohemian+grove

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/02/bush.dui/

"You can't stop the signal!"
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php
http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=8cd2bd0379340120e7a6ed00f2a53ee5
.1044556
www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv
www.piratenews.org

Does that seem right to you?
www.september911surprise.com

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:18 PM

Quote:
BuffaloPhil- define "CIA agents were 'linked' to inside traders."

http://www.hereinreality.com/insidertrading.html
long story short, people in the CIA profitted off of United and AAs losses that day

Quote:
I think your conspiracy theory is far to complex to work. Like that one guy said, "Complex plans don't work. Ask Napoleon."

Quote:
David Rockefeller- "We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion
for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the National autodetermination practiced in past centuries"

you know the Rockefellers right(of the NY chase manhattan bank/ co-founders of the Federal Reserve)? hes also known for saying

Quote:
"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."

just take a look at the dollar.(past the luciferian masonic symbolism).. understand that they took us off the gold standard to concentrate the true wealth of the world, and in turn printed us worthless fiber, inflated and manipulated, with an inherent debt, and an illegal income tax to further the burden; and in the future, they will cause a collapse sufficient enough to bring AMerica to her knees and accept this global authority that has been constructed right in front of our faces

Quote:
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." -Thomas Jefferson

Quote:
"Like it or not, you are a slave. You admit you are a slave every April 15th! That's when you sign forms that "voluntarily" lay bare to the government the most private details of your life! And few people realize the income tax is a slave tax. It can never be compatible with the life of
a free people." ALAN KEYES - Republican Nominee for President

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:58 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Alan Keyes was arrested for attempting to participate in the presidential debates. In 2004, Junior Bush arrested John Buchanan (Republican candidate), and arrested the nominees for the Green Party and Libertarian Party, when they tried to serve court documents during the presidential debates. Dyslexic Bush spells "freedom" as "f-a-s-c-i-s-m".

Quote:

"A slave is he who cannot speak his thoughts."
-Euripides

"In the first few days of the new session of Congress, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and big Washington insiders such as Public Citizen and Common Cause will try to silence critics by regulating us through quarterly reports to Congress. Failure to report would result in civil and potential criminal penalties. Section 220 of S. 1, the lobbying reform bill currently before the Senate, would require grassroots causes, even bloggers, who communicate to 500 or more members of the public on policy matters, to register and report quarterly to Congress the same as the big K Street lobbyists. Section 220 would amend existing lobbying reporting law by creating the most expansive intrusion on First Amendment rights ever. For the first time in history, critics of Congress will need to register and report with Congress itself. This latest attack on bloggers comes hot on the heels of Republican Senator John McCain's proposal to introduce legislation that would fine blogs up to $300,000 for offensive statements, photos and videos posted by visitors on comment boards."
-Richard A. Viguerie, Chairman, www.GrassrootsFreedom.com, January 17, 2007 (TN senators Lamar "I Raped Cathy O'Brien And Almost Killed Her" Alexander and Bob "I Hire Illegal Alien Felons" Corker both voted YES)
www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?
congress=110&session=1&vote=00002

"We're all black people now."
-Dick Gregory, September 12, 2001

slave.
Middle English sclave, from Old French esclave, from Medieval Latin sclvus, from Sclvus, Slav (from the widespread enslavement of captured Slavs in the early Middle Ages); see SLAV. Word History: The derivation of the word slave encapsulates a bit of European history and explains why the two words slaves and Slavs are so similar; they are, in fact, historically identical.
-American Heritage® Dictionary

"The people resemble a wild beast, which, naturally fierce and accustomed to live in the woods, has been brought up, as it were, in a prison and in servitude, and having by accident got its liberty, not being accustomed to search for its food, and not knowing where to conceal itself, easily becomes the prey of the first who seeks to incarcerate it again."
-Niccolo Machiavelli, Secretary of War for City-state of Florence, Italy, and tortured in his own city as a POW, from The Prince
www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."
-Hosea 4:6, Christian Bible (KJV)

"Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, especially the New Testament."
-Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Shabbath 116a

"The following is a list of Jews who participated in the Revolutionary War: Major George Bush, Major Louis Bush and Major Solomon Bush."
-Jewish Calendar for Soldiers and Sailors, 1943-1944
www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/calendar.html

"The picture of American society has, if I may so speak, a surface covering of democracy, beneath which the old aristocratic colors sometimes peep out. Men do not receive the truth from their enemies, and their friends scarcely offer it to them; that is why I have spoken it."
-Count Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/toc_indx.html

Junior Bush is 3rd cousin to the German Queen of England Elizabeth Sax Coberg Gotha

Bush family's head on a stick in British Parliament in 2007
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/piratenewsrss/message/174

"You can't stop the signal!"
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV

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Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:46 PM

If it were'nt for conspiracy theories a hell of a lot of Publishers and Websites would go out of business.

Therefore:

Conspiracy creates Capital,
Capital fills the pockets of the ruling elite.

Ergo;
Conspiracy is the creation of the ruling elite.

My work here is done.

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:02 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Five unanswered points.

A lot of mention of satanic worshipping, civil war era military service, and secret societies.

The five points remain.

One by one, gentlemen. If you really want to educate the masses, to wake them up from the matrix and make them free...

Five points. One by one.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:17 AM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
If it were'nt for conspiracy theories a hell of a lot of Publishers and Websites would go out of business.

Therefore:

Conspiracy creates Capital,
Capital fills the pockets of the ruling elite.

Ergo;
Conspiracy is the creation of the ruling elite.

My work here is done.

If it weren't for conspiracy theories a hell of a lot of publishers and websites would go out of business.

Therefore:

Conspiracy is entertainment.
Entertainment makes a working person's life seem less depressing.

Ergo;
Conspiracy is the creation of the working class.

Combined with oldenglanddry's deduction, we can conclude that conspiracy is a product of society. Glad we got that established.

My work here is also done.

PS: oldenglanddry, I didn't miss the irony in your post, just thought I'd have some fun.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

Hahahaha, this has to be one of the funniest quotes I've read, mostly because it's true. Where'd you find it?

"I cannot abide useless people" -old man, "Shindig"

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:23 AM

KHYRON

One of Churchill's. No idea where I first saw it, but I must have been really stoned because I actually remembered it.

Here are some other gems regarding democracy:
"It's not the voting that's democracy; it's the counting." - Tom Stoppard
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch." - Benjamin Franklin
"Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right." - Henry Mencken
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people." - Oscar Wilde

... and more relevant than ever:

"There are two things which a democratic people will always find very difficult - to begin a war and to end it." - Alexis de Tocqueville

Sorry about the thread-jacking. Uhm, the government made me do it... it's part of a conspiracy to distract you guys from discussing conspiracies.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:03 AM

The MKUltra plan to indoctrinate the masses with Literary Cyncism is working!

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:08 AM

KHYRON

That's just what the government wants you to think, Fletch.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:33 AM

Or is it? Hmmmmm

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:

PS: oldenglanddry, I didn't miss the irony in your post, just thought I'd have some fun.

I dont do Irony, that's woman's work.
No, wait, thats Ironing.

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 11:00 AM

Quote:
Oldenglanddry-
If it were'nt for conspiracy theories a hell of a lot of Publishers and Websites would go out of business.

Therefore:

Conspiracy creates Capital,
Capital fills the pockets of the ruling elite.

Ergo;
Conspiracy is the creation of the ruling elite.

My work here is done.

alright buddy... and what about the corporate media??.. who altogether makes more money during sweeps than all the conspiracy websites and authors would in a year combined.. so get real, whos really out for the money?

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:30 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Still debating your self interest instead of the conspiracy you wish to expose.

Five points to answer. The safety of the world relies on your ability to answer them convincingly.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, January 22, 2007 8:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
Quote:
Oldenglanddry-
If it were'nt for conspiracy theories a hell of a lot of Publishers and Websites would go out of business.

Therefore:

Conspiracy creates Capital,
Capital fills the pockets of the ruling elite.

Ergo;
Conspiracy is the creation of the ruling elite.

My work here is done.

alright buddy... and what about the corporate media??.. who altogether makes more money during sweeps than all the conspiracy websites and authors would in a year combined.. so get real, whos really out for the money?

Well "Buddy", conspiracy theories are big money earners. It's a multi million dollar business. Just look at the amount of money PIRATENEWS claims to make from his website. Do you think he's doing it for the good of mankind? No, he does it because idiots like you will give him credence.
The fact is that we live in a GLOBAL Capitalist social system. Capitalism pervades every level of society in every corner of the world and yet as a means of improving humanities basic qualities of life has been impotent for nearly 100 years. In order for Capitalism to keep tottering along it has to use the preverbial "oldest trick in the book" I.E. "Divide and rule" and the associated distraction tactics that make the strategy work.
The biggest and most effective distraction tactic there is is the rumour, and Conspiracy is the ultimate in these tactics because it is self-perpetuating and plays on the ideas that people like to think that they are part of some great adventure and bigger than they actually are. I or indeed you could go to any forum on any website and start a conspiracy theory off the top of our heads that would be believed by thousands in a matter of days. It's a little like religion, leaps of faith, the very act of believing it makes it true for a great many people.
Now, answer ANTHONY's 5 points or go away.

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Monday, January 22, 2007 2:23 PM

i already answered your five points, but they werent what you wanted to hear

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

But anyways, try to answer me these questions:

1) What is the desired effect of the 9/11 conspiracy?

a one world government. the consitituion protects our rights, and our sovereignty.. so they needed a disaster to sidetrack us, while they systematically weakened it and undermined its relevance; this has been happening for centuries, but now its time to use America specifically to foment WW3 and a conflict between Islam and christianity; to converge the two worlds, and bring them both under the authority of the UNs founders, the secret societies(and central bankers), and their one world government agenda. we could go through a hundred examples of how this war benefits private parties and the multinational globalist plot, but you could easily research them yourself aswell; whats important is the motive, the premise.. which is a NWO

Quote:
2) Why could this effect not be achieved without planting explosives (Thermite, even!) within the Twin Towers?

i believe that without the distraction of the towers collapse, a legitimate investigation may actually have occurred and uncovered the complicity and orchestration of elements directly within the American industrial complex; but given the physcological assault by the pentagon and mass media on the public the days and weaks afterwards, its not suprising that all the evidence of government prior knowledge was swept under the rug, and discarded as 'non sense' and 'paranoid', in the rush to go after the bad guys.. and implement all this extreme, predrafted legislation like the Patriot act

Quote:
3) You say traces of Thermite were discovered in the wreckage of the towers. What, specifically was found, and by whom? Do you have copies of the reports in question?

well.. its hard to test for it now, because 'controlled demolition' came in, recovered all the salvageable material, and promptly sent it to china, barring any investigation. but the samples of debris which have been examined, by professor Jones and other colleagues, have reached a similar consenses, that fire and gravity could not have contributed to the high energy release and the pulverization of steel and other materials(aside from the molten, dripping steel seen falling from the impact zones in video footage).

Quote:
4) Why was it necessary to use a (missile/military jet) to strike the Pentagon, when regular commercial airliners were available for the job, and would fit the bill of goods the authorities are trying to sell?

i believe because the target was calculated to hit an area with the fewest personel, and they didnt want to take the chance on missing the section of the pentagon under construction, and say.. hit Rumsfields office at the opposite end. but why are you excusing the governments denial of our right to see the physical, video proof that it was a commercial flight that hit the building? the government could simply give back the security videos from the nearby businesses(since im sure theyve been examined already).. and shut us up with the proof, but instead they released a few grainy frames with a post obstructing the incoming projectile, and locked the rest away, including the black boxes and FAA transmissions as 'classified/ national security'

Quote:
5) Why would you disembark a plane full of people and then fake the crash of their plane, when it is easier to actually crash the plane they are on?

i dont know all the details.. we are simply pointing out inconsistencies in the official story. why was wreckage recovered over 8 miles away from the PA crash, if it indeed came down in a struggle? why was military craft seen in the area just prior to the crash? according to the families of flight 93, who were allowed by the FBI to hear the cockpit voice recorder, their were no conclusive signs that a struggle ever occurred.. so all we're doing is peicing together the events as they were seen, and not just as we were told by the 9.11 whitewash commission

i know what youre getting at... why overcomplicate the conspiracy if its not neccessary; but if the government is behind it anyways, overcomplicating itust ensures its disbelief among the less skeptically inclined

Quote:
Please take on these points, one by one, as I have presented them. Please avoid tangents like Satanic worshipping and Skull and Bones unless they are directly related to these points.

the problem is unless you learn how government was infiltrated by these societies, and how they wield control over AMerican politics and society, then you wont understand anyways how the government could do such a thing.. so i emplore you to do some research outside of your mainstream, accidental view of history, because they do exist, and are not the figment of our imaginations

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Monday, January 22, 2007 4:25 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antimason:

i already answered your five points, but they werent what you wanted to hear

You previously attempted to answer the five points. One wasn't answered at all, and one was answered with a question. Let's see how this new analysis goes:

Quote:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

But anyways, try to answer me these questions:

1) What is the desired effect of the 9/11 conspiracy?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

a one world government. the consitituion protects our rights, and our sovereignty.. so they needed a disaster to sidetrack us, while they systematically weakened it and undermined its relevance; this has been happening for centuries, but now its time to use America specifically to foment WW3 and a conflict between Islam and christianity; to converge the two worlds, and bring them both under the authority of the UNs founders, the secret societies(and central bankers), and their one world government agenda. we could go through a hundred examples of how this war benefits private parties and the multinational globalist plot, but you could easily research them yourself aswell; whats important is the motive, the premise.. which is a NWO

Okay, I'm with you so far, antimason. A New World Order, built upon a foundation of fear and manipulation. Let's see how they did it:

Quote:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2) Why could this effect not be achieved without planting explosives (Thermite, even!) within the Twin Towers?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i believe that without the distraction of the towers collapse, a legitimate investigation may actually have occurred and uncovered the complicity and orchestration of elements directly within the American industrial complex; but given the physcological assault by the pentagon and mass media on the public the days and weaks afterwards, its not suprising that all the evidence of government prior knowledge was swept under the rug, and discarded as 'non sense' and 'paranoid', in the rush to go after the bad guys.. and implement all this extreme, predrafted legislation like the Patriot act

Okay. Your contention here is that the Towers needed to collapse to provide a distraction which would prevent a proper investigation. Your contention is that if A) Towers Collapse then we get B) Bad investigation. But presumably if C) Towers were simply f-ed up then we'd get D) Good investigation.

What I don't understand is why the towers collapse is seen as the 'magic threshold' where we suddenly bend over for the government. The collapsing towers were certainly startling images, replayed infinitely. But then, too, were the planes crashing into the buildings, fireballs flying out of the sides. In order for me to accept this answer I have to believe that the average american is only emotionally moved by kamikaze attacks that collapse buildings, and not by kamikaze attacks that 'merely' cause hundreds of deaths and result in a building being rendered uninhabitable.

In fact, we know from the Oklahoma bombings that a building doesn't need to collapse for Americans to be shocked and outraged.

Quote:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3) You say traces of Thermite were discovered in the wreckage of the towers. What, specifically was found, and by whom? Do you have copies of the reports in question?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

well.. its hard to test for it now, because 'controlled demolition' came in, recovered all the salvageable material, and promptly sent it to china, barring any investigation. but the samples of debris which have been examined, by professor Jones and other colleagues, and have reached a similar consenses, that fire and gravity could not have contributed to the high energy release and the pulverization of steel and other materials(aside from the molten, dripping steel seen falling from the impact zones in video footage).

So you are saying that there is no actual evidence of Thermite. You are also making assumptions about 'molten, dripping steel.' To my knowledge, there have been no metallurgical identifications of 'molten, dripping steel.' There is 'molten, dripping something' seen at one point, but no material analysis is possible from the footage. While professor Jones and his colleagues are assuming a thermite catalyst for the destruction, they have no actual evidence of it. So they are assuming thermite demolitions without evidence. The problem is that anything can be assumed without evidence.

This argument uses a lack of evidence as evidence. Lack of evidence allows you to fill in the blanks with whatever you wish, but it isn't evidence in and of itself. You can't prove something with lack of evidence.

Quote:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4) Why was it necessary to use a (missile/military jet) to strike the Pentagon, when regular commercial airliners were available for the job, and would fit the bill of goods the authorities are trying to sell?
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i believe because the target was calculated to hit an area with the fewest personal, and they didnt want to take the chance on missing the section of the pentagon under construction, and say.. hit Rumsfields office at the opposite end. but why are you excusing the governments denial of our right to see the physical, video proof that it was a commercial flight that hit the building? the government could simply give back the security videos from the nearby businesses(since im sure theyve been examined already).. and shut us up with the proof, but instead they released a few grainy frames with a post obstructing the incoming projectile, and locked the rest away, including the black boxes and FAA transmissions as 'classified/ national security'

It's interesting that on the one hand, the government can get 'expert trained pilots' (or, in some versions of the conspiracy, robot planes) to perform aeronautical feats which (to conspiracy theorists) are very difficult to perform, and strike the twin towers precisely with a commercial airliner... Yet when the pentagon needs to be hit, they rely on either a small military jet or a missile.

I can't excuse the fact that the government won't release its files. The government classifies the most asinine stuff all of the time, and it drives me bonkers. There's stuff from the 60's and 70's that's still classified for no reason I can imagine, and I hate it.

But again, a lack of evidence isn't evidence.

Still, at least you finally have an answer, even though I don't buy it:

They couldn't hit the Pentagon properly with an airliner, so they used a military jet or missile.

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5) Why would you disembark a plane full of people and then fake the crash of their plane, when it is easier to actually crash the plane they are on?
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i dont know all the details.. we are simply pointing out inconsistencies in the official story. why was wreckage recovered over 8 miles away from the PA crash, if it indeed came down in a struggle? why was military craft seen in the area just prior to the crash? according to the families of flight 93, who were allowed by the FBI to hear the cockpit voice recorder, their were no conclusive signs that a struggle ever occurred.. so all we're doing is peicing together the events as they were seen, and not just as we were told by the 9.11 whitewash commission

i know what youre getting at... why overcomplicate the conspiracy if its not neccessary; but if the government is behind it anyways, overcomplicating itust ensures its disbelief among the less skeptically inclined

Okay, the answer to this one is essentially "I don't know." Well, I don't know either, so this one is tough.

The follow-up is that the government creates elaborate conspiracies so that they won't be believed. Well, if that's true, that makes your job harder. It means you have to come up with more physical evidence and less conjecture.

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Please take on these points, one by one, as I have presented them. Please avoid tangents like Satanic worshipping and Skull and Bones unless they are directly related to these points.
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the problem is unless you learn how government was infiltrated by these societies, and how they wield control over AMerican politics and society, then you wont understand anyways how the government could do such a thing.. so i emplore you to do some research outside of your mainstream, accidental view of history, because they do exist, and are not the figment of our imaginations

I'll tell you something. I don't need to believe that our government has been infiltrated by strange organizations and secret societies to believe that our country is capable of completely vile and evil things. In fact, I think a country of any size that has existed for any length of time has probably done dark and evil things. Part of survival is being ruthless... And part of control is keeping that ruthlessness under wraps.

I can imagine any number of reasons why our country might create a false incident, or cover up a real one. I'm one of those people who looks at the USS Liberty as evidence that our government is prepared to sacrifice its citizens and its soldiers to accomplish political goals that are beyond my ken.

I believe in conspiracies. I believe they happen every day.

But I don't trust conspiracies. Because it's easy to CLAIM anything. It's easy to ASSUME anything. And even if my government might do evil, horrible things, and ignore justice and law...

I still assume innocence until guilt is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

So keep working on your conspiracy. Find evidence to replace conjecture.

Then I'll take another look. I bet other people would, too.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, January 22, 2007 5:05 PM

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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:

Well "Buddy", conspiracy theories are big money earners. It's a multi million dollar business. Just look at the amount of money PIRATENEWS claims to make from his website. Do you think he's doing it for the good of mankind? No, he does it because idiots like you will give him credence.

do we have a cable news network? by that i mean, any influential media representation which supports our 'conspiratorial' view of society? no.. you have to seek it through the 'alternative' media, like literature, the internet or radio; but mainstream history is dominated by the establishment view, which just outright denies reality. the Federal reserve is a private bank, and they do control the US government... and the media wont say a damn thing to inform you, because theyre in on it. and if youll notice, theres a movement by people like John McCain and director of HS Michael Chertoff, to censor the internet, which is central for communication and dialogue(including knowledge exchange)... meanwhile big money is being thrown at the mouthpeice propoganda networks like CBS, Fox news, CNN.. because they support the establishment view of history. the media is used to stir the pot, and influence society subliminally in certain directions to obtain specific outcomes.. this was known from the beginning of television. if you wonder why Fox hates conspiracy theories, its because they harm corporate America.. which has done nothing but sale us out and undermine our constitution anyways

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The fact is that we live in a GLOBAL Capitalist social system. Capitalism pervades every level of society in every corner of the world and yet as a means of improving humanities basic qualities of life has been impotent for nearly 100 years.

thats because you do not understand the system; whoever creates the money, controls the government, period; and the central banks are owned privately by a relatively small group of individuals. the great depression is perfect evidence of their manipulation.. but that knowledge has been kept quite, because to expose the truth behind our monetary policy would cause a genuine revolution

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In order for Capitalism to keep tottering along it has to use the preverbial "oldest trick in the book" I.E. "Divide and rule" and the associated distraction tactics that make the strategy work.

exactly.. which is what mainstream media is used for, by its puppetmasters, to implant communist/humanist concepts into the American psyche- and condition you for the new world order, neo fuedalist global society being prepared for you

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The biggest and most effective distraction tactic there is is the rumour, and Conspiracy is the ultimate in these tactics because it is self-perpetuating and plays on the ideas that people like to think that they are part of some great adventure and bigger than they actually are.

distraction tactic from what? your unrealized enslavement? go back to sleep..

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I or indeed you could go to any forum on any website and start a conspiracy theory off the top of our heads that would be believed by thousands in a matter of days. It's a little like religion, leaps of faith, the very act of believing it makes it true for a great many people.

IMO, the trend of history towards the final global government is in itself the proof of God, and the prophecies regarding the system of the beast. it all comes down to.. where does man get his rights from? either you have God given rights, or government gives you your rights(which are dictated by men). does government exist to give man his rights? because, besides being communistic, it just exemplifies a servitude to our own creation... which is supposed to exist for our benefit. ultimately, who decides what is right(the elite)? a humanist would say that their are no empirical truths, that everything is relative, that we decide within their own conscience what is appropriate. take a look through history.. you couldnt keep track of the number of tyrants in power... because if there is no God, then you have no rights, you have but privelages, as you are entitled to nothing but what you are granted; the past shows that the ruling class has always held the lower masses as profane, subpar, subhuman to themselves.. and have done everything to suppress and rule over them. if your a sovereign being, and have rights.. then do the right thing, and protect the rights of others aswell. theres nothing selfish about that, yet its quite the opposite of supporting the establishment, and asking for your own enslavement

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Monday, January 22, 2007 7:51 PM

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Originally posted by antimason:

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2) Why could this effect not be achieved without planting explosives (Thermite, even!) within the Twin Towers?

i believe that without the distraction of the towers collapse, a legitimate investigation may actually have occurred and uncovered the complicity and orchestration of elements directly within the American industrial complex; but given the physcological assault by the pentagon and mass media on the public the days and weaks afterwards, its not suprising that all the evidence of government prior knowledge was swept under the rug, and discarded as 'non sense' and 'paranoid', in the rush to go after the bad guys.. and implement all this extreme, predrafted legislation like the Patriot act

The problem with this is that it makes no sense. If you crash an airliner into a building and you investigate it, what you find is that a building was hit by an airliner. That evidence supports the official case. What you are saying is that supplemental charges were placed to ensure the destruction of the building to cover up the fact that there were supplemantal charges... redundant in the extreme.

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3) You say traces of Thermite were discovered in the wreckage of the towers. What, specifically was found, and by whom? Do you have copies of the reports in question?

well.. its hard to test for it now, because 'controlled demolition' came in, recovered all the salvageable material, and promptly sent it to china, barring any investigation. but the samples of debris which have been examined, by professor Jones and other colleagues, have reached a similar consenses, that fire and gravity could not have contributed to the high energy release and the pulverization of steel and other materials(aside from the molten, dripping steel seen falling from the impact zones in video footage).

Nobody has found any molten steel on the site, the explanation for why the towers fell does not really on the ironwork melting to explain the collapse. Thermite would be a poor choice for this kind of demolition anyway, a fast, shaped explosive to sever key structural elements would be the only way to ensure success. Could you imagine if you set all of this up and the towers didn't fall? Leaving a whole building full of evidence? It actually makes more sense to just use the planes than to risk something going wrong in the confusion. Conspiracy theories are like Hollywood movies the plans always work, in real life people fail to properly demolish buildings every day.

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4) Why was it necessary to use a (missile/military jet) to strike the Pentagon, when regular commercial airliners were available for the job, and would fit the bill of goods the authorities are trying to sell?

i believe because the target was calculated to hit an area with the fewest personel, and they didnt want to take the chance on missing the section of the pentagon under construction, and say.. hit Rumsfields office at the opposite end. but why are you excusing the governments denial of our right to see the physical, video proof that it was a commercial flight that hit the building?

Actually that's entirely the wrong way of doing it. Western culture has absorbed the Judeo Christian belief in manafest destiny. In reality you WANT the jet to hit Rummy's office (when he's not there of course) you want him to be a survivor put forward the idea that God spared him for greater things. Especially important if you plan on having him lead a war.

You are also especially forgetfull of what happened that day. Bush was shovelled onto Airforce One and flown around out of contact with anyone. First we heard from him after a couple of hours was from inside a concrete bunker in bugspit Idaho (or somewhere.) It took the speech with the Firemen at ground zero to restore his fortunes, for the first few hours the nescessary security made him look like a wimp. Now if you planned all this, if you knew that the attacks were over and there was no risk to POTUS you could have had him out there, resolute, defiant in the face of posible danger. "The President over ruled his own security and hurried back to Washington ignoring fears of a follow on attack." Great stuff, very cinematic, the kind of action fictional Presidents to on TV and movies, the kind of action people in the US are conditioned to expect..... except he didn't.

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5) Why would you disembark a plane full of people and then fake the crash of their plane, when it is easier to actually crash the plane they are on?

i dont know all the details.. we are simply pointing out inconsistencies in the official story. why was wreckage recovered over 8 miles away from the PA crash, if it indeed came down in a struggle? why was military craft seen in the area just prior to the crash? according to the families of flight 93, who were allowed by the FBI to hear the cockpit voice recorder, their were no conclusive signs that a struggle ever occurred.. so all we're doing is peicing together the events as they were seen, and not just as we were told by the 9.11 whitewash commission

Probably means the airforce shot them down. Not sure how that advances your case though.

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i know what youre getting at... why overcomplicate the conspiracy if its not neccessary; but if the government is behind it anyways, overcomplicating itust ensures its disbelief among the less skeptically inclined

WHAT! Congratulations you made me laugh! So the reason this is a stupid and overcomplicated plan is so that if someone happened to piece together the details nobody would believe them because it's a stupid overcomplicated plan? That is so great! That has to be the best explanation I've heard since "God planned fossils when he made the Earth to trick scientists later..."

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Monday, January 22, 2007 7:54 PM

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Originally posted by antimason:
i emplore you to do some research outside of your mainstream, accidental view of history, because they do exist, and are not the figment of our imaginations

This is what I've been waiting for. You finally suggested that we do research of our own (a reasonable request) rather than dogmatically asserting your opinions. Thank you Antimason.

P.S. I'm not being sarcastic. You're showing signs of being reasonable. That I can appreciate. ;-)

"I cannot abide useless people" -old man, "Shindig"

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Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:15 AM