No this is what going crazy must feel like II by SignyM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I have a picture in my head of an underline blinking away in Rap's mind while he searches his memory for related terms.

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Sunday, February 18, 2007 9:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I have a picture in my head of an underline blinking away in Rap's mind while he searches his memory for related terms.

Blame Clinton process running, please wait?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Sunday, February 18, 2007 9:21 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I'm trying so hard to be good, but... rrrrrr... mrrrmph! choke! ... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! gasp! hahahahahahaha!!! snort! hahahahahahaha! mmrrrphmph! hehheheheheh titter....

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Sunday, February 18, 2007 4:32 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Okay, so let's start with the obvious: Why would Saddam- or anyone- hide 10+ year-old WMD? Except for mustard gas which is very stable, chemical and biological WMD would be well past expiry and of no use to anyone. So... why would WMD be hidden for so long?

It doesn't matter with the speculation as to WHY. You're trying to explain the mind of a mass murderer and why he defied the world until the very end.....for what ? Blind, bold pride ? It's possible. And it doesn't matter, either way. Why would he gas 5k women and children ? DUH! Don't try to figure it out, or you'll end up rationalizing his actions away.

I'm done w/ this story. Hope y'all have enjoyed it, but it has come to a close.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, February 18, 2007 5:52 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
It doesn't matter with the speculation as to WHY

It apparently matters to you, because you've spent some time figuring out Saddam:

... Iraqis were more concerned with other things

... And if those were found, there's no telling what ELSE Saddam might have.

... Actions like that by Sadddam were reason enough to fear that he might do other things, like give assistance to terrorist groups.

....Saddam having WMD and the STRONG LIKELYHOOD that he'd share some info / material with al Qaeda

Since you seem to be something of an expert on Saddam, I thught I'd ask you WHY he would have hidden chemical and biological weapons for 10+ years.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:00 PM

America loves a winner!

Sign.......I was just voicing the opinions of experts and what was factually known. Why is this such an issue for you ? Just drop it and move on.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, February 19, 2007 5:18 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

As I recall, you started the thread about Saddam and why invading Iraq was necessary. You made a number of points about Saddam- points which you seem to take seriously, even passionately. But I just can't seem to get a handle on the crux of your argument. It just seems to slip thru my fingers. I was hoping if you parsed it with me I could FINALLY figure out what you were trying to say.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Monday, February 19, 2007 7:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
It just seems to slip thru my fingers.

Like so much hot air...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, February 19, 2007 12:31 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I'm still on the fence about Rap and whether communicating with him is worthwhile.

On the on hand, he states his beliefs right up front, something trolls don't do. On the other hand, his beliefs are just empty space papered over with talking points. It seems more like a game.

Why WOULD Hussein defy the UN for years? The answer is easy - he didn't. He destroyed 99.99% of his weapons. Why WOULD he not disclose their destruction? Another easy answer - he was surrounded by enemies who would take advantage of his weakness. And so on.

There are logical simple answers (Occam's razor) that Rap spends all his posts trying to weasel around. So either he is so deluded that simple reality can't penetrate; or he's not up-front about his beliefs.

In any case, I have no time to dog him on his severe logical lapses and bountiful self-contradictions.

Though I have to say watching on the sidelines is delightful. SignyM, you are the master.

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Tuesday, February 20, 2007 6:20 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

No, I'm just really really slow. I'm still hoping that Auraptor can/ will explain his view. In excruciating detail. Step. By. Step. So. I. Can. Follow.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:22 AM

STORYMARK

I wouldn't hold my breath...

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
No, I'm just really really slow. I'm still hoping that Auraptor can/ will explain his view. In excruciating detail. Step. By. Step. So. I. Can. Follow.

That's a road I don't know as I want a detailed map of.
Those that need to see this country as wholy good in it's intentions and honourable in it's actions defy logic. They grasp at every little explanation, no matter how insane, to justify their belief. Ever see a teacher telling a parent that their son was a bully in school?

Denial is a long swim Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:28 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
But I just can't seem to get a handle on the crux of your argument. It just seems to slip thru my fingers. I was hoping if you parsed it with me I could FINALLY figure out what you were trying to say.

Saddam had WMD, and refused to give them up. He failed to abide by U.N. resolutions, as well as cease fire agreements from the 1st Gulf War. You can repeat my posts and comments for as long as you like, but it doesn't change anything. If you can't understand what I'm saying, then that's a you problem, and not mine. Clearly you understand the language I'm using, yet you fail to comprehend my meaning.

I've got nothing more to say on the issue.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:57 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

That's a road I don't know as I want a detailed map of. CHRISISALL! TSK! TSK!
Didn't your English teacher ever tell you not to end your sentences with a preposition? That's the most awkward sentence I've heard of.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:11 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Hi SignyM

I'm having a similar problem. I KNOW how to write 'good english'. But I sometimes think standards have changed since I learned grammar those many many decades ago. So when I try to be correct it looks stilted, when I try to be colloquial - like the NYTimes - it feels wrong.

Translation:
I know how to write English well. However, the grammar I was taught decades ago no longer seems to be current. Correct grammar now seems stilted, while current grammar seems faulty.

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Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:56 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Saddam had WMD, and refused to give them up. He failed to abide by U.N. resolutions, as well as cease fire agreements from the 1st Gulf War."

Rap, you don't really believe this, do you?

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Tuesday, February 20, 2007 6:21 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Thanks Auraptor.

Please. step by step, OK?

Saddam had WMD

Okay, I think everyone can agree that Saddam had WMD for sure. Lots of them. Thousands of liters of Sarin. Thousands of gallons of anthrax liquid. He used them against Iranian troops, Iranian civilians, and Iraqi civilians up to 1991. This isn't a surprise to anyone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

SO far so good. TTUL.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:08 PM

Hi all, newbie to this forum jumping in!

Rap, look up the name "Scott Ritter." Then do a search for the IAEA report of January 2003.

...and then ask yourself why this "madman" who didn't have any compunction against using all that nasty stuff DIDN'T use it when he was attacked? What was he saving it for, a birthday party?

He didn't have it, dude. Bush is a liar. Cheney is a liar. Rice is a liar. Colin Powell is a liar. Everyone who has worked for this administration keeping this illegal invasion going is a liar.

All those "known facts" you refer to have been debunked - but you won't hear about it from Freeperville.

They like the lie...

Anyway, that's what I think...

MT

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:45 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by MedfordTim:
Hi all, newbie to this forum jumping in!

Rap, look up the name "Scott Ritter." Then do a search for the IAEA report of January 2003.

...and then ask yourself why this "madman" who didn't have any compunction against using all that nasty stuff DIDN'T use it when he was attacked? What was he saving it for, a birthday party?

He didn't have it, dude. Bush is a liar. Cheney is a liar. Rice is a liar. Colin Powell is a liar. Everyone who has worked for this administration keeping this illegal invasion going is a liar.

All those "known facts" you refer to have been debunked - but you won't hear about it from Freeperville.

They like the lie...

Anyway, that's what I think...

MT

Wrong. All those 'facts' have not been debunked. Saddam was found w/ WMD and WMD making materials he was NOT suppose to have. Specific materials which he was ordered to destroy. The POINT of my reply here rests on this simple fact which you and your kind blatantly ignore. If Bush lied ( and I know he did not ), but for your elaborate fairy tale to be accurate, then Clinton ( both ), Kerry, Kennedy, Albright, Gore, virtually every single top Democrat agreed that Saddam had WMD and military action was an option, should he not come clean. This was their view before and AFTER Bush became President. Hillary even cross referenced the intel she got from Bush's sources w/ the ones she had available to her when she was Co-President , and she STILL agreed. Saddam had WMD and was continuing to break U.N. resolutions.

Sorry MedfordTim, but Bush et al aren't liars on this legal war. Not by a long shot.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MedfordTim:
Bush is a liar. Cheney is a liar. Rice is a liar. Colin Powell is a liar. Everyone who has worked for this administration keeping this illegal invasion going is a liar.

They like the lie...

Anyway, that's what I think...

Your thinking is clear, however- as far as legality goes, spin, legal wording and re-writing short-term history can make nearly anything legal.
AURaptor desperately NEEDS this all to make complete sense for him- he's actually a very nice fellow, but he must have a hole somewhere that needs the missing piece...confidence in his government must provide a stability in an otherwise unstable psyche.
You'll find it's like that for many that follow a leader all the way no matter what.

Psychobabblin' Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
That's the most awkward sentence I've heard of.

You clearly haven't listened to Bush enough of.

To read makes our speaking English better Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:27 AM

Interesting. Got a link to follow? I'm sure it'll give me a laugh or two. I like fiction.

Trumped up "He went against the U.N.!" crap means nothing - hell, we did it when we invaded Iraq. (Oh, uh, that's why it's illegal, btw. We signed a treaty back in '46, it became Law of the Land by virtue of the Constitution, Bush went ahead and invaded a country which was not even a threat, let alone an imminent danger. He broke the law - but I guess you don't mind a lying criminal as President...)

I know the people who argue the point like to bring up Democrats, I just can't figure out why? Who was President in March 2003? Kerry? Noooo. Clinton? Noooooo. Bush, the lying sack o'crap?

Computer says "Yes."

Did you look up those references? No? Why? Afraid your house of cards will come crashing down? Sorry, but truth has that effect, sometimes.

Oh, and in case you hadn't noticed - he's doing it again. Or, still. Take your pick.

Anyway, that's what I think...

MT

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
If Bush lied ( and I know he did not )

You can't know that, you can assume or believe, but the evidence points to the contrary. But then no amount of evidence would ever be enough; Bush himself would have to admit to it for you to buy it- but then your world would be shattered.

Quote:

Sorry MedfordTim, but Bush et al aren't liars on this legal war. Not by a long shot.

Not by a long shot?
Wow.
I guess you're correct, no one uses a phrase like that unless they are correct.
See AU, that's a symptom of your faulty belief system. Emotional punctuations like that. If you provide proper evidence, there's no need for such stuff. And by gum, I really mean it!

Punctuatin' Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
as far as legality goes, spin, legal wording and re-writing short-term history can make nearly anything legal.

Psychobabblin' Chrisisall

Yeah, as yesterday's Appeals Court decision proves...

But I'm a stubborn ol' fart. I'll just keep repeating the truth and maybe it'll get through.

Anyway, that's what I think...

MT

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:39 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by MedfordTim:
Bush is a liar. Cheney is a liar. Rice is a liar. Colin Powell is a liar. Everyone who has worked for this administration keeping this illegal invasion going is a liar.

They like the lie...

Anyway, that's what I think...

Your thinking is clear, however- as far as legality goes, spin, legal wording and re-writing short-term history can make nearly anything legal.
AURaptor desperately NEEDS this all to make complete sense for him- he's actually a very nice fellow, but he must have a hole somewhere that needs the missing piece...confidence in his government must provide a stability in an otherwise unstable psyche.
You'll find it's like that for many that follow a leader all the way no matter what.

Psychobabblin' Chrisisall

'babblin Chrisisall - You're darn right I need things to make sense. I don't dabble in 'faith', not when I can help it. It's the whole being a skeptic thing, I suppose. If you're going to call Bush a liar, then prove it. Don't presume things HAD to be a certain way, and then cry conspiracy when what YOU thought doesn't turn out to be true.

Same thing goes for Bigfoot, UFOs and the Loch Ness Monster. I call B.S. ! Not saying those things CAN'T be true, but there's nothing there which supports the claims. Everything can be explained by alternate explanations or a witness who is flat out wrong. It's the burden of proof test, and so far, no one's offered up the burden of proof that Bush lied. ( And as I toss that grenade into the thread, I'm out of here ! )

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MedfordTim:

Yeah, as yesterday's Appeals Court decision proves...

Golden Rule...

But at least truth always has a chance at least. And that is why I love America.

Hallenbeckisall

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's the burden of proof test, and so far, no one's offered up the burden of proof that Bush lied.

Prove to me that there's gravity, AURaptor! NO, not the effects of gravity, isolate the elusive 'graviton', or else I refuse to believe in it. Throw out all common sense, and all that cause-and-effect malarkey- I want to see a GRAVITON before I buy into your 'gravity fantasy'!!!!

I'm sure it's lost on ya, dude Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7:29 AM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Same thing goes for Bigfoot, UFOs and the Loch Ness Monster. I call B.S. ! Not saying those things CAN'T be true, but there's nothing there which supports the claims. Everything can be explained by alternate explanations or a witness who is flat out wrong. It's the burden of proof test, and so far, no one's offered up the burden of proof that Bush lied.

I agree with what you said about burden of proof. So isn't it time for you to present some evidence that Saddam had WMDs in 2002/2003?

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7:45 AM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I want to see a GRAVITON before I buy into your 'gravity fantasy'!!!

Gravity is just a myth perpetuated by science types and the government to suppress people's freedom (of movement). Everybody who won't end up in hell knows that gravity doesn't exist, but that it's God who pushes things down. Prove me wrong!

By the way, I once took a physics test and passed it, so I'm a genius and an expert at this stuff and I know what I'm talking about.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7:45 AM

Ok, to everyone, do I really have to keep saying it?

Trolls, like pigeons, feeding them only encourages.

All the world seems in tune on a spring afternoon when we're poisoning pigeons in the park...

If only.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 8:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:

By the way, I once took a physics test and passed it, so I'm a genius and an expert at this stuff and I know what I'm talking about.

I was going to take a Psychic test once, but I knew I wasn't going to pass, so...

Anyway, that's what I think...

MT

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 8:50 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

CIT- I don't think AU is a troll.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 9:24 AM

No he just acts like one, which is much the same thing.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 9:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
CIT- I don't think AU is a troll.

Citizen is just hard on him 'cause he suffers those with foolish beliefs badly.
On any other subject AU is quite easy to get on with.

No foolish beliefs Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:08 AM

He may have something there about proving Bush is a liar, just the same...

Any idea when the last time was George said something?

Anyway, that's what I think...

MT

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 11:04 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I don't think AU is a troll because a troll would be fanning flames. AU is trying to exit the thread. Still, I hope he stays to talk with me because I'm puzzled about his viewpoint.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Still, I hope he stays to talk with me because I'm puzzled about his viewpoint.

Here, let me.
The WMD's can't be found, which proves they exist.
The lies can be heard, which proves they don't exist.
I'm comfortable with that; case closed.

Got it now, Signy? It really is no more confusing than that.

Simple Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 1:28 PM