Oh, everything's just dandy ... by rue

Keep the Shiny side up

Honey bees are not native to the Americas, having come over with other European invaders during the Columbian Exchange in the first couple of hundred years after Columbus 'discovered' America.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, May 2, 2007 3:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Yeah, and apples, apricots, almonds... and most of the other fruits, nuts, and vegetables that we enjoy and which depend on honeybee pollination aren't either.

So thanks Geezer for that bit of useless trivia.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, May 2, 2007 6:13 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Yeah, and apples, apricots, almonds... and most of the other fruits, nuts, and vegetables that we enjoy and which depend on honeybee pollination aren't either.

So thanks Geezer for that bit of useless trivia.

I thought you'd be glad that one of humanity's artificial changes to the world's environment was being reversed.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, May 2, 2007 6:31 AM

KANEMAN

I don't think we should have ice in the late summer - just sounds weird.

I don't like bees or vegetables - I won't lose sleep over the death of honeybees.

We already have to many trees as it is, just look around- they are everywhere, I don't even think we have ash trees round these parts, however, I would suggest planting cherry trees when the ash ones die....they are prettier. Then we should thank the beetle for improving our streets.......

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Wednesday, May 2, 2007 6:31 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Geezer,

Why is it you habitually pick fights over nothing?

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Wednesday, May 2, 2007 7:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Yeah, and apples, apricots, almonds... and most of the other fruits, nuts, and vegetables that we enjoy and which depend on honeybee pollination aren't either.

darned imigrants, we should put up a fence to keep those fruits, vegetables, and insects out of the country. Think of all the jobs that apples have stolen from native crops anyway. And don't get me started on those disloyal bees, they're probably all hanging out with Osama!!!

"The world is still turning and you're on it....count yourself lucky" My Dad, 2007.

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Wednesday, May 2, 2007 7:14 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Geezer,

Why is it you habitually pick fights over nothing?

Because you take the bait everytime.

---- plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre, Owner of a too big Turnippy smelling coat with MR scratched in the neck (thanks FollowMal!)

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

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Wednesday, May 2, 2007 7:14 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Geezer,

Why is it you habitually pick fights over nothing?

How pick a fight? Many of the plants and animals we Americans rely on for food are not native to the Americas, were brought here by humans, and radically changed the environment, sometimes causing species decline or extinction. Sometimes the reason wasn't even economic. Starlings are here because someone wanted to have all the birds mentioned in Shakespere's plays flying around in America.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, May 2, 2007 7:42 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Geezer,

What makes you think that was my point? And what makes you think my point has a 'side' ? BIG picture. You're missing the big picture. What's causing CCD? What else is it affecting? Why does it seem there are more disintegrating systems now ? Where will it lead ?

My post wasn't about any point, or any answers, It was about the questions.

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Wednesday, May 2, 2007 3:55 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Geezer,

What makes you think that was my point? And what makes you think my point has a 'side'? BIG picture. You're missing the big picture. What's causing CCD?

Not taking sides. Species declines and extinctions happen all the time, due to many factors. Maybe this is time for honeybees and ash trees to decline for a while.

Quote:
Why does it seem there are more disintegrating systems now?

Maybe we just observe the changes better? I'd have to see some data about the rates of system failure. Probably has a lot to do with 6 billion plus people running around, and the fact that plants, animals, diseases, etc. can hitchhike around the world easier than pre-civilization.

Quote:
Where will it lead?

To change.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, May 2, 2007 4:17 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Massive loss of bees would lead to 70 - 90% crop failures.
Massive loss of Arctic ice would lead to loss of albedo, and extinction of entire species.
Massive loss of ash trees (along with oaks, due to phytophthora) would lead to massive loss of forests.

In the long, long, long run none of this matters- the sun will either blow up and go dark, or just go dark.

But I worry about the next generation - specifically my family, and how they will cope. The brave new world looks to be a harsh one for all but the wealthiest.

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Thursday, May 3, 2007 2:59 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Massive loss of bees would lead to 70 - 90% crop failures.
Massive loss of Arctic ice would lead to loss of albedo, and extinction of entire species.
Massive loss of ash trees (along with oaks, due to phytophthora) would lead to massive loss of forests.

In the long, long, long run none of this matters- the sun will either blow up and go dark, or just go dark.

But I worry about the next generation - specifically my family, and how they will cope. The brave new world looks to be a harsh one for all but the wealthiest.

-Potato blight would leave Ireland an abandoned wasteland.
-Phylloxera infestation would end winemaking in Europe.
-Boll weevils would wipe out the most lucrative agricultural crop of the American South.
-Pine Bark beetles would destroy all the commercial pine forests.
-The Dust Bowl would be a desert forever.

Not saying that your concerns aren't valid, but such stuff has been going on since forever. Not saying not to prepare for or try to mitigate them, either. But change is change, not 'The End of The World'.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, May 3, 2007 6:34 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

There is a small opening between 'the sky is falling' and ' who cares'. I'd like to think that's my place.

There are so many threats to the US ecosystem just in terms of invaders - gypsy moths kept in check by dint of ongoing programs, and recently hemlock wooly adelgid, caulerpa - the aquatic green blanket of death - hopefully eradicted but ready to return, zebra mussels, kudzu and its northern equivalent loostrife and western equivalent European cheatgrass, leafy spurge ... and now threats to bees, to ash tress and oaks.

And the global threat of climate change and all that means.

There was a notion I came up with that since pests are pests partly b/c they thrive and are hard to eradicate, we humans are in the business of creating a globe populated by pests. And we are creating global warming.

Attention should be paid. And that is specifically what I'm NOT seeing.

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Thursday, May 3, 2007 8:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There was an article in Scientific American that exactly addressed the notion of a "world of pests". Basically what it came down to is that ecologists predict a very shortened list of extremely hardy species populating the globe.

And Geezer, a "metric" indicating that our experience is out of the historic norm is the number of species extinctions, which is currently is rivaling the mass extinctions of the past.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Thursday, May 3, 2007 9:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
There was a notion I came up with that since pests are pests partly b/c they thrive and are hard to eradicate, we humans are in the business of creating a globe populated by pests. And we are creating global warming.

Attention should be paid. And that is specifically what I'm NOT seeing.

I think I agree more with the above underlined sentence than anything I've seen writ here on RWED to date.

To restate the obvious, it seems like the automobile industry, the oil industry, and Republicans just discount the environmental threats we face because they're on the wrong side of Repub Vs. Dem political issues, without embracing the notion that lots of things are possible, and that "attention should be payed".

The average "climate change isn't real" proponent will look at say...100 pages of a study by dozens of PhD's saying that there IS a problem, then pick up a 20 page color prochure, with pictures put out by a think tank thats paid by the oil industry association, and run down the streets proclaiming "the sky is NOT falling, see I told you democrats so!". Their next stop will be the sand box at the local park because that where people like that keep thier heads.

I better stop before I get ruffled

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Thursday, May 3, 2007 9:56 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
There are so many threats to the US ecosystem just in terms of invaders... and now threats to bees, to ash tress and oaks.

Actually, bees are invaders too. brought over by European settlers for their honey, since pollination was not yet understood.

Quote:
Attention should be paid. And that is specifically what I'm NOT seeing.

Attention is being paid. Apiarists are paying attention to the bees, arborists to the ash trees, entymologists to gypsy moths, Kudzu control programs have been ongoing since prior to WWII, any number of projects in western states are working to control invasive plant species, controls are implemented over water ballast dumping to reduce the spread of zebra mussels. Also, cronic wasting disease in increasing in the wild ruminant population and game and fish agencies are working to control it, and they're also trying to control whirling disease, which affects rainbow trout.

If everybody tries to make every issue the first priority, nothing gets done. If each problem has a community of interest which has a vested interest - commercial, ethical, esthetic - in developing a solution, things tend to work better.

If every such issue in the world is important to you, and you have the time and resources to worry about all of them, that's great. For those of us who choose to focus on particular areas of interest, I tend to think that's fine as well. There are plenty of people to go around.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, May 3, 2007 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Attention is being paid. Apiarists are paying attention to the bees

In this particular case...The apicultural staff at UC Davis here in northern California has gone to the local press to complain about the complete lack of funding to address this issue. UCD is one of the top ag colleges in the world. If anyone here in the US would be able to get to the bottom of the issue it would be them. And our state government can't squeeze out a few $100,000 for professors to study an issue that COULD have catastrophic consequences to our food supply.

And you can't change that by gettn' all bendy.

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Friday, May 4, 2007 2:35 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
In this particular case...The apicultural staff at UC Davis here in northern California has gone to the local press to complain about the complete lack of funding to address this issue. UCD is one of the top ag colleges in the world. If anyone here in the US would be able to get to the bottom of the issue it would be them. And our state government can't squeeze out a few $100,000 for professors to study an issue that COULD have catastrophic consequences to our food supply.

From the article Rue cited:

"The USDA spends about $9 million a year on bee research, Hackett says, about half of it focused on breeding bees resistant to mites. California is undertaking a five-year, $5 million project to examine insecticides, hive care and transport as well, he says."

So someone is getting money to work on bees, just not UC Davis. Google 'bee research ccd' and you'll get plenty of hits (149,000), including a USDA study group, a comment by Sen Clinton, and a Congressional Research Service report to Congress. Try 'emerald ash borer' and get 299,000 hits. People are working on this stuff, even if it's not your local university.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, May 4, 2007 5:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

From the article Rue cited:

"The USDA spends about $9 million a year on bee research, Hackett says, about half of it focused on breeding bees resistant to mites. California is undertaking a five-year, $5 million project to examine insecticides, hive care and transport as well, he says."

So someone is getting money to work on bees, just not UC Davis. Google 'bee research ccd' and you'll get plenty of hits (149,000), including a USDA study group, a comment by Sen Clinton, and a Congressional Research Service report to Congress. Try 'emerald ash borer' and get 299,000 hits. People are working on this stuff, even if it's not your local university.

That's kind of why I started the UCD statement with "In this particular case", that meant the case of UCD and only UCD. I didn't mean to imply that UCD is our only salvation, or rather...the bee's only salvation

And you can't change that by gettn' all bendy.

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Friday, May 4, 2007 6:25 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

In the 'bee' instance the varroa mite and Africanized bees were the topic du jour. And they are both still pressing problems. BUT ----- this is a new and drastic problem of unknown cause and unknown fix.

Geezer, what are you proposing? That research on a pre-existing problem is sufficient in the face of this new problem? That money should be withdrawn from old research and applied to new research so the mite issue can go unchecked? Or what?

As to the emerald ash borer:

"The outbreak covers over 2000 square miles (518 000 hectares). In southwest Michigan, 49.1 percent of the trees surveyed, and an estimated 5.2 million ash trees, are dead or declining. In Michigan, only ash has been attacked - in Asia, elm, walnut and chestnut may be attacked. Information on biology, detection and control of emerald ash borer is limited to less than a paragraph in the Chinese literature."

This is one of those time-critical problems. It takes - oh, 20 - 30 years to replace mature ash trees. If the borer isn't stopped soon, the landscape will be changed for a long, long time - perhaps permanently, as appears to be the case for the American chestnut and American elm. When you can find a link that says 'problem solved !' rather than '"people" are working on it', then I'd say you've shown a sufficient response, and sufficient funding ...

As to arctic ice melting - I'm guessing within our lifetimes - we'll be around to see what comes of it. Wanna' bet that it's a problem? I'll put $750,000 on that. (Easiest money I'll ever make.

)

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Friday, May 4, 2007 7:22 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Geezer, what are you proposing? That research on a pre-existing problem is sufficient in the face of this new problem? That money should be withdrawn from old research and applied to new research so the mite issue can go unchecked? Or what?

Read the article you posted, please.

A colony collapse disorder working group based at Pennsylvania State University has become a central clearinghouse for all the suspected causes, which include:
•An overload of parasites, such as bloodsucking varroa mites, that have ravaged bees. The parasites reportedly spread to Hawaii only last week.
•Pesticide contamination. Hotly debated suspicion centers on whether "neonicotinoid" insecticides interfere with the foraging behavior of bees, leading them to abandon their hives.
•Fungal diseases such as Nosema ceranae, which is blamed for big bee losses in Spain. It was spotted by University of California-San Francisco researchers who were examining sample dead bees last week.
•The rigors of traveling in trucks from crop to crop.

Then note what I mentioned USDA and California are working on.

The USDA spends about $9 million a year on bee research, Hackett says, about half of it focused on breeding bees resistant to mites. California is undertaking a five-year, $5 million project to examine insecticides, hive care and transport as well, he says.

What makes you think no one is working on this when the article you cite says that they are?

Quote:
As to the emerald ash borer:
When you can find a link that says 'problem solved !' rather than '"people" are working on it', then I'd say you've shown a sufficient response, and sufficient funding ...

Yep. You're right. Lets pull all the money from CCD research and spend it on emerald ash borers.

Quote:
As to arctic ice melting - I'm guessing within our lifetimes - we'll be around to see what comes of it.

Yep. You're right. We should take that emerald ash borer money and spend it on saving the arctic ice.

Starting to get the point? We can't put everything at number one on the priority list. There's only so much resources out there to spend, and it's better to allocate them with a little care rather than just throwing them at the crisis de jour. All this stuff is important, but it can't all be the most important. If everybody works to give you a 'problem solved' on ash borers, who solves CCD before the bees are gone?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, May 4, 2007 8:06 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"We can't put everything at number one on the priority list. There's only so much resources out there to spend."

Half a trillion on Iraq so far. There seems to be plenty of money for that.

"a five-year, $5 million project" on bees - that, let's see - multiply by 100 ... 0.1% of the money spent on Iraq. It's a matter of priorities, you see. Insure the food supply - carry on the same old same old in Iraq. It's so hard to decide.

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Friday, May 4, 2007 8:22 AM

While the amount of available funding relative to the Iraq war cost is of course a good point, something that's a lot closer to home and many people don't know about is that $1 billion will probably be spent on the 2008 presidential elections... I wonder how many real problems in the US go underfunded while the country spents the GDP of a small nation on electing its next president.

By the way, (5 million / 500 billion)*100 = 0.001%.

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

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Friday, May 4, 2007 8:39 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"By the way, (5 million / 500 billion)*100 = 0.001%."

I'll take your word for it, and chalk it up to doing it in my head. And, by the Law of Conservation of Decimal Places, someone just got a factor of 100 multiplied somewhere. I hope it was someone and someplace nice - like some poor working stiff getting a really nice paycheck !

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Friday, May 4, 2007 9:04 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"We can't put everything at number one on the priority list. There's only so much resources out there to spend."

Half a trillion on Iraq so far. There seems to be plenty of money for that.

"a five-year, $5 million project" on bees - that, let's see - multiply by 100 ... 0.1% of the money spent on Iraq. It's a matter of priorities, you see. Insure the food supply - carry on the same old same old in Iraq. It's so hard to decide.

You mean you wouldn't rather take it from the obscene profits the heartless capitalists have ripped from the pockets of the poor downtrodden workers? Prioritize, Rue.

Got any evidence that the money available for CCD research isn't isn't sufficient to do what needs to be done right now? Often too much money thrown at a problem too early leads to duplication of effort and burns down funds which would be more useful later. Could it be that the experts in bees and their care actually know more about how to handle this than you do?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, May 4, 2007 9:10 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Got any evidence that research requests haven't been turned down for lack of funds? Got any evidence that "too much" research "too soon" is bad? Got anything other than speculation? Anything to add besides innuendo?

I didn't think so.

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Friday, May 4, 2007 9:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
In this particular case...The apicultural staff at UC Davis here in northern California has gone to the local press to complain about the complete lack of funding to address this issue.

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

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Friday, May 4, 2007 9:44 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Got any evidence that research requests haven't been turned down for lack of funds? Got any evidence that "too much" research "too soon" is bad? Got anything other than speculation? Anything to add besides innuendo?

I didn't think so.

You're the one griping about nothing being done, and providing nothing but innuendo. If you got proof, show it.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, May 4, 2007 9:49 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Quote:
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
In this particular case...The apicultural staff at UC Davis here in northern California has gone to the local press to complain about the complete lack of funding to address this issue.

So UC Davis isn't getting any funding to address the CCD issue. Hey, I'm not getting any funding to address this issue either! I suspect that a lot of colleges aren't. Others are. Should every college with an agriculture department get a grant to study CCD?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, May 4, 2007 10:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
So UC Davis isn't getting any funding to address the CCD issue. Hey, I'm not getting any funding to address this issue either!

Yeah, but my guess is that they actually applied for it.

Quote:
I suspect that a lot of colleges aren't. Others are. Should every college with an agriculture department get a grant to study CCD?

i) If they apply for it, then yes they should (these days that seems to happen with climate change studies, should happen with other environmental crises as well).
ii) According to Malbadinlatin, UCD has a particularly good agriculture department. If true, they should certainly get funding to study the issue if they want it.

Btw, I agree with your point that there's only a finite amount of money available to study all the things that need to be studied, I just think that i) there should be more money available to do such things, especially after seeing how much money is being squandered on Iraq and presidential elections, and ii) one should fund the best university departments if they want to do research on a particular issue.

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

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Friday, May 4, 2007 10:37 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

UCD is THE premiere agricultural research university in California. As to California's agricultural status: "California is the largest producer of agricultural products and the top exporting State." You'd think if anyone was to get funding on a problem that threatens California's entire agricultural economy, it would be UCD.

http://www.fas.usda.gov/info/factsheets/WTO/states/ca.pdf

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Friday, May 4, 2007 10:51 AM

MARINA

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Honey bees are not native to the Americas, etc.

Bees are dying in huge numbers in Europe too...

Don't make faces.

http://amaranton.wordpress.com

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Friday, May 4, 2007 1:15 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
UCD is THE premiere agricultural research university in California. As to California's agricultural status: "California is the largest producer of agricultural products and the top exporting State." You'd think if anyone was to get funding on a problem that threatens California's entire agricultural economy, it would be UCD.

Hmmm. SO why wouldn't UC Davis get a grant to study CCD? It could be behind-the scenes machinations of the Bee Trust, attempting to corner the market on bees. That's probably it.

Or, wild suggestion here, it could be that other agencies or institutions have more expertise and experience working with this particular problem, or ones similar in the past. Say Penn State, which has been with the USDA's CCD Study Group from the get-go, and is a major part of the Mid-Atlantic Apiculture Research and Extension Consortium.

Even less likely, since California's CCD program is just getting started, maybe they're still considering proposals and will get to UC Davis once they start funding research. Without knowing when Davis originally applied - and to who - and when California money is available, it's hard to say. But Hell. Let's jump to conclusions.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, May 4, 2007 1:16 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by marina:
Bees are dying in huge numbers in Europe too...

One would hope that the Europeans are also researching this problem.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, May 5, 2007 11:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Or, wild suggestion here, it could be that other agencies or institutions have more expertise and experience working with this particular problem, or ones similar in the past. Say Penn State, which has been with the USDA's CCD Study Group from the get-go, and is a major part of the Mid-Atlantic Apiculture Research and Extension Consortium.

It appears that CCD started in the mid atlantic states. So it should come as no surprise that Penn and MAAREC would be amonst the first to address the problem. However, the internet is repleat with articles featuring UCD Apiculturist Eric Mussen being consulted on many of the studies all over the US. He is thought of as one of the top bee researcher's in the country. I'm starting to feel the undercurrent of a west coast vs. east coast pissing match starting here. So if I may jump to a conclusion, it's not expertise that determines who gets money, it's geography, for the moment at least. I may be wrong and will promptly admit it if I am.

Quote:
Even less likely, since California's CCD program is just getting started, maybe they're still considering proposals and will get to UC Davis once they start funding research. Without knowing when Davis originally applied - and to who - and when California money is available, it's hard to say. But Hell. Let's jump to conclusions.

From what I've found by speaking with a friend who works at UCD, They did have 3 full time professors in that dept, which means each prof gets a certain number of assistants, budget, etc....Some how it's been cut back to just one prof. And thats what the tv spot was all about, basically it was a..."we have the finest minds, a big problem, and only one prof to get started on it" story. People are being quiet about who is holding back funding. Which allows me to jump to one more conclusion...it's a UCD internal matter and nobody wants to make permanent enemies by blabbing. Of course I may be wrong and will promptly admit it if I am.

And you can't change that by gettn' all bendy.

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Saturday, May 5, 2007 11:50 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Arctic ice cap melting 30 years ahead of forecast

Best not blame the forcasters for making a bad guess, huh?

Naw. It MUST be a catastrophe in the making, right? That sells more newspapers anyways.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, May 5, 2007 1:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Arctic ice cap melting 30 years ahead of forecast

Best not blame the forcasters for making a bad guess, huh?

Naw. It MUST be a catastrophe in the making, right? That sells more newspapers anyways.

While I share your cynicism towards the media for leaning towards sensationalism instead of balanced perspective (including global warming), maybe you can explain your logic to me: the forecasters made a "bad guess", so we should be blaming them rather than looking at the catastophe in the making... but at the same time there isn't actually a catastrophe in the making, that's just the media wanting to sell more newspapers.

In other words, either the Arctic ice cap is melting 30 years ahead of the forecasts and the media should rather focus on blaming the forecasters instead of reporting on the issue, or the forecasters got it right, but the Arctic ice cap ignores them and melts faster than they predicted, but that should be ignored and any reports on it are just designed to sell more newspapers.

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

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Saturday, May 5, 2007 3:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Kyron - to be brief, I don't buy the man made [s]global warming[/s] / Climate change nonsense. There IS no man made catatrophe in the making. I fear Yellowstone Park errupting or a giant meteor smacking into our planet FAR more than global warming.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, May 5, 2007 3:48 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
It appears that CCD started in the mid atlantic states. So it should come as no surprise that Penn and MAAREC would be amonst the first to address the problem. However, the internet is repleat with articles featuring UCD Apiculturist Eric Mussen being consulted on many of the studies all over the US. He is thought of as one of the top bee researcher's in the country. I'm starting to feel the undercurrent of a west coast vs. east coast pissing match starting here. So if I may jump to a conclusion, it's not expertise that determines who gets money, it's geography, for the moment at least. I may be wrong and will promptly admit it if I am.

So at this point the folks on the east coast who were the first to deal with CCD are consulting with the expert at UC Davis. Doesn't seem like a bad idea.

Quote:
From what I've found by speaking with a friend who works at UCD, They did have 3 full time professors in that dept, which means each prof gets a certain number of assistants, budget, etc....Some how it's been cut back to just one prof. And thats what the tv spot was all about, basically it was a..."we have the finest minds, a big problem, and only one prof to get started on it" story. People are being quiet about who is holding back funding. Which allows me to jump to one more conclusion...it's a UCD internal matter and nobody wants to make permanent enemies by blabbing. Of course I may be wrong and will promptly admit it if I am.

If the situation continues to get worse who's to say that some won't provide more bucks for UC Davis?

Note: Any errors in spelling or logic are due to mint julips consumed during the Kentucky Derby.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, May 5, 2007 7:58 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

There were reports 4-5 years ago of wild bee colonies collapsing in Minnesota. The estimates were 90% mortality across the state and spreading into other states. It wouldn't be too large a leap in logic to think that this 'sudden new' catastrophe is simply that what was going on in the wild has crossed over into commercial colonies and is now getting the attention it originally deserved.

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Sunday, May 6, 2007 12:30 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
There were reports 4-5 years ago of wild bee colonies collapsing in Minnesota. The estimates were 90% mortality across the stae and spreading into other states. It wouldn't be too large a leap in logic to think that this 'sudden new' catastrophe is simply that what was going on in the wild has crossed over into commercial colonies and is now getting the attention it originally deserved.

Commercial bee colonies in N.Carolina are doing just fine. But your post fails to connect how this is a) a man made catastrophe or b) how it has anything to do w/ global warming....if it does at all.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, May 6, 2007 8:13 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

It doesn't have to be a man-made catastrophe or have anything to do with global warming. Just that it is a sufficient threat in a cluster of threats all with varying levels of uncertainty and lack of sufficent response.

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Monday, May 7, 2007 10:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Commercial bee colonies in N.Carolina are doing just fine. But your post fails to connect how this is a) a man made catastrophe or b) how it has anything to do w/ global warming....if it does at all.

Like anyone actualy proves anything here in RWED. Any person in here, liberal or conservative, can easily hunt down a set of links to present as thier evidence to "prove" thier case....plenty! of convincing official looking links! Ahhhhhh pretty.

What people should be asking themselves right now is...Am I searching for the truth to the questions in this thread, or am I more concerned with finding answers that validate my political stance on the issues. I still don't know why I expect anything less than "Nope! there ain't no such thang as global warmin'" rhetoric from conservatives.

And you can't change that by gettn' all bendy.

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Tuesday, May 8, 2007 9:14 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

For the record, for the first time ever, the fire season never ended in California. It just rolled from one year - through spring, summer, fall, and winter, into spring.

Meanwhile "Wildfires Burn in Dry Fla., Ga., Minn." http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Wildfires.html?_r=1&oref=slogin because it was a dry winter and a dry spring http://drought.unl.edu/dm/monitor.html .

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Wednesday, May 9, 2007 2:08 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
For the record, for the first time ever, the fire season never ended in California. It just rolled from one year - through spring, summer, fall, and winter, into spring.

Sort of been expecting that. More and more people there, and people cause most "wildfires" through arson, carelessness, sparking of downed power lines, etc. Also, when you keep putting out the small fires all you're doing is preserving fuel for the big ones. But since people insist on building their homes on the most fire-prone areas, you keep putting out the small fires. Sooner or later, something's gotta give.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, May 9, 2007 5:58 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

It has to do with the driest winter on record. Fire season is determined by moisture levels in vegetation, temperature, humidity, and wind. Houses, people, and fire suppression - not so much.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2007 7:06 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
The 2006 autumn ended with very dry, and in some cases record drought conditions, throughout portions of B.C., notably the Peace River basin, the upper Fraser and Nechako, and the mid-Fraser and Thompson-Nicola areas. Those conditions changed dramatically in late October, when the first in a series of intense Pacific frontal systems moved onshore, bringing widespread, heavy precipitation onto the north coast and into northern B.C.. Following that, November and December produced a succession of intense frontal storms arising off the Pacific. These storm systems resulted in periods of flooding throughout the south coast and Vancouver Island, and resulted in most B.C. snowpacks being well above normal for January 1st.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wsd/public_safety/drought_info/index.html

Posting to stir stuff up.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2007 9:51 AM