Crackdowns on the basics of democracy by Geezer

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Crackdowns on the basics of democracy

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Saturday, March 30, 2024 18:52
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VIEWED: 2530
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Saturday, May 26, 2007 4:15 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

So who gets the tyrant of the week award, Chavez or Mugabe?

Quote:
President Hugo Chavez has refused to renew a licence for Radio Caracas TV, claiming the station actively tries to undermine his government.

Opponents say the president is limiting freedom of expression.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6695769.stm

Quote:
Police in Zimbabwe have raided the headquarters of the opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) in Harare and arrested as many as 200 activists.
The activists were taken away in police vans, though the MDC's Nelson Chamisa said police had no search warrant.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6695061.stm

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, May 26, 2007 4:27 PM

FREDGIBLET

Is this the new Fascist Idol?

I'm gonna vote for Mugabe, what number I send the text message to?

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Saturday, May 26, 2007 6:44 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by fredgiblet:
Is this the new Fascist Idol?

I'm gonna vote for Mugabe, what number I send the text message to?

LOL.... Fascist Idol. That's classic.

These guys are amatuers. Any American politician could tell you that when you're stripping people of their liberties, you do it just a little bit at a time and give them enough toys and bullshit to promote just the right level of misdirection so they don't even notice it when you're pissing all over their freedom and Constitution.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, May 26, 2007 7:41 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Mugabe. I'm worried. My church is sponsoring its 3rd generation of exchange students from a single family there. The grandfather ( my age, 55) is a progressive business man, educator, and fairly high level member of the opposition party there.

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Sunday, May 27, 2007 3:46 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Although it pains me to say it, Chavez has some cause, and justification thanks in part to OUR interferance - televising criticism is one thing, directly supporting a coup attempt(s) is not, and he's been overall pretty tolerant about it so far.

Do your homework.

Our meddling and nitpicking actually helped Castro remain in power by giving him an acknowledged opponent to rally his people against other than him, and here we are repeating the exact same mistake - if we don't like Chavez, just ignore him and snub him diplomatically, rather than pissing our tax dollars down a hole for black ops to piss off his whole country at us.

Have we, in the end, learned NOTHING from our failures ?

Mugabe, on the other hand, is pure scum, and scum we support, again with your tax dollars and mine, just like The Shah, Saddam, Osama, Papa Doc, and all the rest, and will boomerang in the same way, costing us even more in the long run.

The more I watch this bullshit, the more convinced I am that we need to fire everyone at the state dept, and forcibly close and prosecute more than half our alphabet agencies.

This is like showing up with a fuel tanker and trying to use it to put out a tire fire, none of the results can possible be good.

As for assaults on democracy, these guys are pikers compared to our current regime, all 1.5 parties of it (Republicrats!), with us poor frogs all a-boiling.

Stop the planet, I wanna get off.

-Frem

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Sunday, May 27, 2007 5:33 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Thank you 6ix and Frem.

I saw a bystander killed during the demonstrations three years ago by what I'm sure was a provocateur/ sniper. Yeah, we're meddling in Venezuela. Always were.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, May 27, 2007 6:32 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Oops. I had forgotten that the ends of dictators justify the means, because everything is America's fault. What a world. What a world.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, May 27, 2007 6:37 AM

FREDGIBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
This is like showing up with a fuel tanker and trying to use it to put out a tire fire, none of the results can possible be good.

Oh I disagree completely, I think the results of this can't possibly be bad (as long as I'm at least a couple hundred yards away with my popcorn).

P.S. Sorry for not being serious

P.P.S. Fire!!...Fire!!

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Sunday, May 27, 2007 8:49 AM

FREMDFIRMA

It's called cause and effect, Geeze, a simple, logical process even other mammals can generally figure out on their own, why not politicians ?

Prolly cause they're freakin reptiles or something.

We meddle, and it boomerangs, every time we go stickin our tax dollars into something overseas it's like a goddamned monkeytrap - only eventually a MONKEY *WILL* let go of the banana!

Why are we not smart enough to do that ?
Are we not smarter than a monkey ?

No, you can't have the banana, get your hand out of the jar.

Ook Ook Eek Ack!

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, May 27, 2007 9:36 AM

LEADB

I'll have to vote for Mugabe.

Though the situation in Venezuela concerns me more; Zimbabwe is pretty much shot as a democracy. Venezuela on the other hand is merrily marching down the road of dismantlement of actual democracy. Unfortunately, if you do not have a good historical sense, it is all too easy to hand over too much power to the top fellow. The people of Venezuela must trust Chavez implicitly at this point (otherwise, I cannot explain the reported behavior); even if Chavez keeps the best interests of his people at heart (not that I'm clear he does), some day someone is going to pickup his mantle of authority...

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Sunday, May 27, 2007 10:16 AM

FREMDFIRMA

(Warning: May contain vaguely psychotic ranting and small traces of nuts or nutlike products)

Lead, you just nailed exactly, what my primary issue with Chavez is - sure, his people love him, and trust him enough to give him near dictatorial powers, but the issue you raise is the exact same one I raised when Ross Perot ran for Prez.

He woulda needed damn near dictatorial power to do much of what he planned, and while I might perhaps, have trusted him with it on a temporary basis, it would set a bad BAD precendent, and such "temporary" measures (Patriot Act anyone ? I. Told. You. So.) never are.

So yes, in the short term giving a seemingly decent man such power might fix problems, but it will also corrupt him and his administration exactly that much faster - and if whoever comes after him is a shitheel, then they're screwed.

Same principle here in the states, what with the Bush administrations concept of a Unitary Executive... regardless of how matters turn out, my one hope that brings a snarky smile to my face is just how fast the next sumbitch we elect is gonna USE that "Unitary Executive" power to bend Bush and his cronies over a sawhorse for a good ole fashioned san quentin honeymoon.
SQUEEEEEEE!

I wanna see the tears roll down that fuckers face when the new administration railroads his ass in a rigged military tribunal and ships it off to Gitmo with extreme prejudice for a couple rounds of waterboarding.

Cause in the end, that's his own damn fault, and you know what, it's gonna be Chavez's too, when this bites HIM on the ass as well.

That bein said, Venezuela ain't my county, and ain't my business how they run their affairs, we should just leave that the hell alone.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, May 27, 2007 10:24 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Oeverything is America's fault. What a world. What a world.

Everything is the fault of whoever's fault it is. We have more money and resources, so we do more of the stuff there's fault to be had for, that's all.

Do the math Chrisisall

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Sunday, May 27, 2007 10:40 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
It's called cause and effect, Geeze, a simple, logical process even other mammals can generally figure out on their own, why not politicians ?

Prolly cause they're freakin reptiles or something.

We meddle, and it boomerangs, every time we go stickin our tax dollars into something overseas it's like a goddamned monkeytrap - only eventually a MONKEY *WILL* let go of the banana!

So we made Chavez a Socialist dictator wannabe? And all the people protesting his closure of opposition media are just American puppets? Sorry, but even if the US has interfered with Venezuala's politics in the past, that doesn't make Chavez's actions correct. If he's as popular as he seems to think, he should be able to withstand media criticism.

BTW, US aid to Zimbabwe for quite a while has been food and anti-AIDS/HIV. US posture on Mugabe's government has been quite critical. Unless you want us to invade and enforce democracy

?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, May 27, 2007 10:41 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Oeverything is America's fault. What a world. What a world.

Everything is the fault of whoever's fault it is. We have more money and resources, so we do more of the stuff there's fault to be had for, that's all.

Do the math Chrisisall

That's got to be the most ignorant, dim witted thing I think I've ever seen you post, Chris. What the hell do money and resources have to do w/ whether or not somene does something wrong ? Mugabe and Chevez have countries rich in resources, and they're pissing them away. More so w/ Mugabe, so far, but either way, both men are moronic, egocentric tryants who will let thier people suffer in the name of their leaders.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, May 27, 2007 11:42 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

both men are moronic, egocentric tryants who will let thier people suffer in the name of their leaders.

Most ignorant, dim witted-? I have to keep raising the bar, now don't I?

At least Bush & Co. aren't letting THEIR peeps suffer...well, except for the families of the dead soldiers...oh, and the wounded Guys and Gals coming back that have limited or DELAYED benefits...
I mean, just IMAGINE if Bush was EGOCENTRIC....

More peeps- more money and resources- more ability to impose your will, that's all.

Chrisisall

EDITED TO ADD: BTW, I forgive all your lack of insight, politically speaking- for you are almost the fan of the Buffster that I am...Did you see Chosen finally?

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Sunday, May 27, 2007 12:11 PM

LEADB

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
(Warning: May contain vaguely psychotic ranting and small traces of nuts or nutlike products)
(Patriot Act anyone ? I. Told. You. So.) never are.

Gladly I didn't fall for that one, I opposed that from the start.

Quote:
Same principle here in the states, what with the Bush administrations concept of a Unitary Executive... regardless of how matters turn out, my one hope that brings a snarky smile to my face is just how fast the next sumbitch we elect is gonna USE that "Unitary Executive" power to bend Bush [...]

I wanna see the tears roll down that [his] face when the new administration railroads [him] in a rigged military tribunal and ships [him] off to Gitmo with extreme prejudice for a couple rounds of waterboarding.

I really cannot agree with that in the least. I believe the correct action is to either impeach him or wait until he's out of office (I'd prefer impeachment), then have him prosecuted for crimes against humanity in international court. The Patriot Act (and a few other things) should be immediately revoked, and never used again.

Hmmm. I retract my above vote, and instead vote for George W. (That would be the first vote I'd ever have cast for him ;-) )

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:45 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Chavez decides, "That was easy. Think I'll have another"

Quote:
Second Venezuela TV is under fire

Venezuela's government has accused a TV station of inciting a murder attempt on President Hugo Chavez, hours after taking another network off the air.
It said footage shown on Globovision implicitly called for Mr Chavez to be killed. The station denies the claim.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6699383.stm

Quote:
Communications Minister William Lara said Globovision had called for the death of Mr Chavez by airing footage of the 1981 assassination attempt against Pope John Paul II with the song "This Does Not Stop Here" sung by Ruben Blades, now Panama's tourism minister.

"The conclusion of the specialists ... is that (in this segment) they are inciting the assassination of the president of Venezuela," Mr Lara said, as he filed a lawsuit against the news network at the state prosecutor's office.

Who are these mysterious 'specialists'? Is their name Hugo Chavez? Newspeak already?

Quote:
Globovision was the only TV station to air footage of a large demonstration against the government's growing control over the media.

Aha!

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 5:20 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
That bein said, Venezuela ain't my county, and ain't my business how they run their affairs, we should just leave that the hell alone.

This is the whole issue for me. MYOB.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 6:41 AM

MALBADINLATIN

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Our meddling and nitpicking actually helped Castro remain in power by giving him an acknowledged opponent to rally his people against other than him, and here we are repeating the exact same mistake - if we don't like Chavez, just ignore him and snub him diplomatically, rather than pissing our tax dollars down a hole for black ops to piss off his whole country at us.

This has a ring of familiarity.....hmmmm....why am I thinking...IRAN! right now. My Iranian friends tell me revolution will only take 10 years, and it won't be bloody, if we'd butt out with the subversion, crap. My friend also says it would be a movement of pro democracy/pro westerization young educated people who may change thier minds about the pro-western part of that whole thing if we bomb them

Sorry, didn't mean to change the subject, I vote Mugabe

It's amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:11 AM

LEADB

Re: the above MYOB comments....

Maybe. But I've decided today to boycott all CITGO products, at least for a while. A bit of a shame since they tend to have the best price, quite often.

CITGO is basicly "the" Venezula oil company (as I understand it)

====
Please vote for Firefly: http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html

BBC poll is still open, vote! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6517155.stm

Consider $5/year to support FFF: http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/pay/T39WWCGS4JYCV4

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 8:04 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

BUSH.

The federal government is on the verge of turning over a huge portion of our public airwaves to companies like AT&T, Verizon, and Comcast—who will use them for private gain instead of the public good.

These newly available airwaves are a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to revolutionize Internet access—beaming high-speed Internet signals to every park bench, coffee shop, workplace, and home in America at more affordable prices than current Internet service. Phone and cable companies don't want this competition to their Internet service—they'd rather purchase the airwaves at auction and sit on them.1

In June, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) will make a major decision: Use the public airwaves for the public good, or turn them over to big companies who will stifle competition, innovation, and the wireless Internet revolution.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:16 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Crackdowns on the basics of democracy

In order

Mugabe
Bush
Chavez

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:28 AM

RIVER6213

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Oops. I had forgotten that the ends of dictators justify the means, because everything is America's fault. What a world. What a world.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

In a way you were right the first time. We have had our fingers in everyone's pie for decades to the point where it has caused destabilizations in a lot of countries, and this has happened for years. America didn't get its wealth, sense of safety and resources in a vacuum you know? The price was a lot of people had to die, and a lot of countries had to fall in one form or another, or have their leaders removed in place of someone WE felt okay with in order for the USA and Europe to be enjoying its current day time in the sun.

Out of all the countries in the world the people of the Unites States seem to be clueless regarding our involvement in the Worlds affairs past and present.

-River

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:08 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Aw c'mon River. You should know by now that we're pure as the driven snow...

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, March 30, 2024 6:52 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

RFK Jr. says Democratic Party won’t allow fair elections

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/mar/29/rfk-jr-says-democrati
c-party-wont-allow-fair-elect/

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