Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
In a world where you have every advantage...Could it be that you are just lazy?

---

That could be. Lets look at my past. Hmm...job, school, job and school, job and lawschool. Maybe when I became a lawyer...nope, worked two jobs, seven days a week for a year and a half before my first vacation. Now I make pretty good money so I've cut myself back to seventy or so hours with a week's vacation every year (not counting govt holidays). So yeah, I'm lazy...

Then again, an African American male with my academic background would have had a full scholarship and been recruited to a top law firm out of school. Heck, I saw it happen with fellas and some nice ladies way behind me in the academic arena. Yes, I have the job I wanted, but I worked my way from intern all the way up and still almost lost out to a nice gal who failed her bar exam the first time and couldn't try cases worth a damn. She did have a large chest to offset her lack of research and writing ability...female privilage? She's gone now...could not cut it. I could and here I am. My boss is a female...meanest prosecutor I ever met (also the smallest...size does not matter) and damn fine trial lawyer.

I'd gladly trade my student loan payment for some racial profiling or the occaisional sexist remark...where do I sign up?

H

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
A lawyer huh? I'm impressed. Okay, so you are not lazy. You can't be lazy and go through the head-trauma trying to be a lawyer.

---

Quote:

---

"There is a certain class ... who do not want the patient to get well, because ... they have not only an easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to make themselves prominent ...”

... today this philosophy has ... come to dominate the domestic polices of a large part of Left-wing politics in America ...

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:
"I'm a heterosexual white male under 35, the only unprotected class of folk in this country. Don't talk to me about privilage. There were no scholarships, no affirmative action, no benefits of any kind."

---

In a world where you have every advantage...Could it be that you are just lazy?

-River

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:
"I'm a heterosexual white male under 35, the only unprotected class of folk in this country. Don't talk to me about privilage. There were no scholarships, no affirmative action, no benefits of any kind."

---

In a world where you have every advantage...Could it be that you are just lazy?

-River

---

How this is my quote I have no idea...unless River is drinking again.......

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Lets' see how this stands up. The premise: Domestic policies of many liberals are dominated by the desire to make money and garner prominence.

Nope, that doesn't compute. The vast majority of liberals work regular jobs and all but handful will ever gain prominence.

Sorry, Finn, Try again.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:
"I'm a heterosexual white male under 35, the only unprotected class of folk in this country. Don't talk to me about privilage. There were no scholarships, no affirmative action, no benefits of any kind."

---

In a world where you have every advantage...Could it be that you are just lazy?

-River

---

How this is my quote I have no idea...unless River is drinking again.......

---

And your point is...?

And NO I'm not drinking; not yet at least. I might on Friday and let's see if I can repeat my falling off the chair and passing out on the floor stunt. How I managed to start a topic while doing all of this bothers me a little...

Anyway. How are you enjoying your White Privilege Kaneman?

-River

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
In a world where you have every advantage...Could it be that you are just lazy?

---

That could be. Lets look at my past. Hmm...job, school, job and school, job and lawschool. Maybe when I became a lawyer...nope, worked two jobs, seven days a week for a year and a half before my first vacation. Now I make pretty good money so I've cut myself back to seventy or so hours with a week's vacation every year (not counting govt holidays). So yeah, I'm lazy...

Then again, an African American male with my academic background would have had a full scholarship and been recruited to a top law firm out of school. Heck, I saw it happen with fellas and some nice ladies way behind me in the academic arena. Yes, I have the job I wanted, but I worked my way from intern all the way up and still almost lost out to a nice gal who failed her bar exam the first time and couldn't try cases worth a damn. She did have a large chest to offset her lack of research and writing ability...female privilage? She's gone now...could not cut it. I could and here I am. My boss is a female...meanest prosecutor I ever met (also the smallest...size does not matter) and damn fine trial lawyer.

I'd gladly trade my student loan payment for some racial profiling or the occaisional sexist remark...where do I sign up?

H

---

Quote:

---

“Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs -- partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs....There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who do not want the patient to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to make themselves prominent before the public.”
-- Booker T. Washington

In Washington’s day, this “class of colored people” may have been predominately African-American, but today this philsophy has migrated and come to dominate the domestic polices of a large part of Left-wing politics in America advocated by as many and probably more white people then black.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
In a world where you have every advantage...Could it be that you are just lazy?

---

That could be. Lets look at my past. Hmm...job, school, job and school, job and lawschool. Maybe when I became a lawyer...nope, worked two jobs, seven days a week for a year and a half before my first vacation. Now I make pretty good money so I've cut myself back to seventy or so hours with a week's vacation every year (not counting govt holidays). So yeah, I'm lazy...

Then again, an African American male with my academic background would have had a full scholarship and been recruited to a top law firm out of school. Heck, I saw it happen with fellas and some nice ladies way behind me in the academic arena. Yes, I have the job I wanted, but I worked my way from intern all the way up and still almost lost out to a nice gal who failed her bar exam the first time and couldn't try cases worth a damn. She did have a large chest to offset her lack of research and writing ability...female privilage? She's gone now...could not cut it. I could and here I am. My boss is a female...meanest prosecutor I ever met (also the smallest...size does not matter) and damn fine trial lawyer.

I'd gladly trade my student loan payment for some racial profiling or the occaisional sexist remark...where do I sign up?

H

---

Why do you continue to bring up African Americans instead of addressing your white male privilage. If an African American could swap 400 years of slavery and Jim Crow and the last 40 years of affirmative action for your white privilage would you, somehow I doubt it.

Racism is about power , white male privilage is about power. You act as if a few years of some mostly defunct affrimative action programs have made up for hundreds of years of enslavement and terrorism. It hasn't even come close, stick to the topic..which is your white male privliage or is that to hard for you to do!!

Am I suppose to feel sorry for you because you didn't get a scholarship and there was no program to help you through college, I'm sure your white male privilage helped you just as much as any affirmative action program helped some woman or some minority who needed it.

You know you love your white male privilage no one is asking you to deny that; however just don't try to justify it, just admit that it does give you an advantage over everyone else. It puts you at a certain level that you didn't earn,and thats just the way it is. why is that so hard for some of you to admit?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Nope, the strawman is yours. You claim that there is a "large part of Left-wing politics" mostly white who want to keep "the hardships of the Negro race before the public" because "as long as the disease holds out they have not only an easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to make themselves prominent before the public."

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

Quote:

---

---

Well, at least the question of whether you’re a racist has been answered. And if there was any debate on your chauvinist tendencies, that’s pretty much answered too.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
In a world where you have every advantage...Could it be that you are just lazy?

---

That could be. Lets look at my past. Hmm...job, school, job and school, job and lawschool. Maybe when I became a lawyer...nope, worked two jobs, seven days a week for a year and a half before my first vacation. Now I make pretty good money so I've cut myself back to seventy or so hours with a week's vacation every year (not counting govt holidays). So yeah, I'm lazy...

Then again, an African American male with my academic background would have had a full scholarship and been recruited to a top law firm out of school. Heck, I saw it happen with fellas and some nice ladies way behind me in the academic arena. Yes, I have the job I wanted, but I worked my way from intern all the way up and still almost lost out to a nice gal who failed her bar exam the first time and couldn't try cases worth a damn. She did have a large chest to offset her lack of research and writing ability...female privilage? She's gone now...could not cut it. I could and here I am. My boss is a female...meanest prosecutor I ever met (also the smallest...size does not matter) and damn fine trial lawyer.

I'd gladly trade my student loan payment for some racial profiling or the occaisional sexist remark...where do I sign up?

H

---

Why do you continue to bring up African Americans instead of addressing your white male privilage. If an African American could swap 400 years of slavery and Jim Crow and the last 40 years of affirmative action for your white privilage would you, somehow I doubt it.

Racism is about power , white male privilage is about power. You act as if a few years of some mostly defunct affrimative action programs have made up for hundreds of years of enslavement and terrorism. It hasn't even come close, stick to the topic..which is your white male privliage or is that to hard for you to do!!

Am I suppose to feel sorry for you because you didn't get a scholarship and there was no program to help you through college, I'm sure your white male privilage helped you just as much as any affirmative action program helped some woman or some minority who needed it.

You know you love your white male privilage no one is asking you to deny that; however just don't try to justify it, just admit that it does give you an advantage over everyone else. It puts you at a certain level that you didn't earn,and thats just the way it is. why is that so hard for some of you to admit?

---

Good point, and thank you very much for adding that. I was wondering when someone else who isn't a White Male would come in here and add their two cents worth to the fray. I also noticed that whenever a topic like this comes up the first thing people do is start talking about the treatment of Black people. They toss up statistics proving that Black people are the #1 makers of crime, or the number one takers of the welfare system. They talk about Affirmative Action, and they also mention quotas, and they ALL end it with how oppressed the White man is and how they have no special organizations to protect them. It makes me want to hurl sometimes because I KNOW they know better than that.

The original Affirmative Action is the Old Boys Club. The members? White Males. Everyone else had to take a back seat because they were all undeserving. Even when Affirmative Action and other policies were put in place White Males STILL found ways around that, and even with all of these organizations White males STILL hold the power over almost everything. I fail to see how they are being oppressed. I still think that they see it as there god given right to determine who is deserving and not deserving. And you are right Jenny...It's about power and they are not found lacking in this, but STILL they whine. Out of all the people in the United States White males have it better because they have an advantage that no one else does. They have White Privilege, so they will always be one up on every other race or gender; they will always be given the benefit of the doubt. It's sort of like they have a cheat card. I personally believe that most white males are lazy, not all of them but most of them are. I figure many of them have been led to believe that things would be handed to them regardless if they worked hard or not. And then the rude surprise hits them later in life when they learn that you actually have to get skills to make it here on Earth. They get angry when they see some one from another race doing well, and they get jealous, and feel that they have been left out, so then they turn their anger on Affirmative Action" or some other programs thinking that this is how the person of color got ahead. Pathetic.

No one likes this sort of topic, but from where I'm standing topics like this must always be discussed and challenged. If anyone dares to challenge it they are labeled a Liberal or a Left-wing fanatic, or they must be living on the West Coast. All diversions to keep people from taking the subject matter seriously. They want us all to go along with their mind-set, and when we don't they get angry and start the name calling anew. It's like dealing with children. I'm waiting for the clown who will finally get around and start calling me a race traitor for not going along with his rubbish. I guess a REAL White woman is supposed to go along with whatever a white man decrees without question. If you think I'm this sort of person I think you should wake up from your dream, and smell the fucking coffee of reality.

Hundreds of years people of color have been getting the short stick and only in the last 30 years are they able to start getting some skills and the moment that happens White males start whining like little bitches. It makes me sick to my stomach because their reactions and fear and laziness really show the true colors of our race and for that I am ashamed.

-River

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:
They really need to man-up, talking about white male privilage makes some of these men defensive!!.I guess the truth is hard to take. The way some of these males are bitching in this thread I'd really love to see it if they had to compete on an even playing field with everyone else. Why do I get the feeling some of them would fall apart.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:
They really need to man-up, talking about white male privilege makes some of these men defensive!!.I guess the truth is hard to take. The way some of these males are bitching in this thread I'd really love to see it if they had to compete on an even playing field with everyone else. Why do I get the feeling some of them would fall apart.

---

Yeah it would be terrible if I had to compete in a world where the universities I attended actually had “diversity programs” for me. As it is, I had to get into college on my own grades, not the color of my skin. And it would be terrible for me if there were an affirmative action program for me. As it is I had to get my job on my qualifications, not on the color of my skin. Oh Yeah, it would just be so terrible.

---

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Jared Diamond spent several hundred pages wondering why did the European area advance into the machine age first. The book is "Guns, Germs and Steel". His position is that it was a geographical accident, and he traces the development of cultures around the globe to make his case.

---

Quote:

---

Americans, your justice system is a fucking joke.

It really is.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Khyron:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Jared Diamond spent several hundred pages wondering why did the European area advance into the machine age first. The book is "Guns, Germs and Steel". His position is that it was a geographical accident, and he traces the development of cultures around the globe to make his case.

---

An excellent book, everybody should read it. I should read it again too, it's been almost ten years already.

Anyway, 'Privilege in the United States': Paris Hilton, sent home to "serve her sentence" in her luxury castle because she didn't like prison.

Americans, your justice system is a fucking joke.

It really is.

---

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:
They really need to man-up, talking about white male privilege makes some of these men defensive!!.I guess the truth is hard to take. The way some of these males are bitching in this thread I'd really love to see it if they had to compete on an even playing field with everyone else. Why do I get the feeling some of them would fall apart.

---

Yeah it would be terrible if I had to compete in a world where the universities I attended actually had “diversity programs” for me. As it is, I had to get into college on my own grades, not the color of my skin. And it would be terrible for me if there were an affirmative action program for me. As it is I had to get my job on my qualifications, not on the color of my skin. Oh Yeah, it would just be so terrible.

---

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

---

But you already have the biggest affirmative action ever, its called White male Privlege, you don't seem to want to admit that!! your whole life has been one big affirmative action program!! why do I detect hostilty..why is the truth so hard for you to own up to.

I think I must of hit a nerve!!

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:
But you already have the biggest affirmative action ever, its called White male Privlege, you don't seem to want to admit that!! your whole life has been one big affirmative action program!! why do I detect hostilty..why is the truth so hard for you to own up to.

I think I must of hit a nerve!!

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
In a world where you have every advantage...Could it be that you are just lazy?

---

That could be. Lets look at my past. Hmm...job, school, job and school, job and lawschool. Maybe when I became a lawyer...nope, worked two jobs, seven days a week for a year and a half before my first vacation. Now I make pretty good money so I've cut myself back to seventy or so hours with a week's vacation every year (not counting govt holidays). So yeah, I'm lazy...

Then again, an African American male with my academic background would have had a full scholarship and been recruited to a top law firm out of school. Heck, I saw it happen with fellas and some nice ladies way behind me in the academic arena. Yes, I have the job I wanted, but I worked my way from intern all the way up and still almost lost out to a nice gal who failed her bar exam the first time and couldn't try cases worth a damn. She did have a large chest to offset her lack of research and writing ability...female privilage? She's gone now...could not cut it. I could and here I am. My boss is a female...meanest prosecutor I ever met (also the smallest...size does not matter) and damn fine trial lawyer.

I'd gladly trade my student loan payment for some racial profiling or the occaisional sexist remark...where do I sign up?

H

---

Why do you continue to bring up African Americans instead of addressing your white male privilage. If an African American could swap 400 years of slavery and Jim Crow and the last 40 years of affirmative action for your white privilage would you, somehow I doubt it.

Racism is about power , white male privilage is about power. You act as if a few years of some mostly defunct affrimative action programs have made up for hundreds of years of enslavement and terrorism. It hasn't even come close, stick to the topic..which is your white male privliage or is that to hard for you to do!!

Am I suppose to feel sorry for you because you didn't get a scholarship and there was no program to help you through college, I'm sure your white male privilage helped you just as much as any affirmative action program helped some woman or some minority who needed it.

You know you love your white male privilage no one is asking you to deny that; however just don't try to justify it, just admit that it does give you an advantage over everyone else. It puts you at a certain level that you didn't earn,and thats just the way it is. why is that so hard for some of you to admit?

---

Good point, and thank you very much for adding that. I was wondering when someone else who isn't a White Male would come in here and add their two cents worth to the fray. I also noticed that whenever a topic like this comes up the first thing people do is start talking about the treatment of Black people. They toss up statistics proving that Black people are the #1 makers of crime, or the number one takers of the welfare system. They talk about Affirmative Action, and they also mention quotas, and they ALL end it with how oppressed the White man is and how they have no special organizations to protect them. It makes me want to hurl sometimes because I KNOW they know better than that.

The original Affirmative Action is the Old Boys Club. The members? White Males. Everyone else had to take a back seat because they were all undeserving. Even when Affirmative Action and other policies were put in place White Males STILL found ways around that, and even with all of these organizations White males STILL hold the power over almost everything. I fail to see how they are being oppressed. I still think that they see it as there god given right to determine who is deserving and not deserving. And you are right Jenny...It's about power and they are not found lacking in this, but STILL they whine. Out of all the people in the United States White males have it better because they have an advantage that no one else does. They have White Privilege, so they will always be one up on every other race or gender; they will always be given the benefit of the doubt. It's sort of like they have a cheat card. I personally believe that most white males are lazy, not all of them but most of them are. I figure many of them have been led to believe that things would be handed to them regardless if they worked hard or not. And then the rude surprise hits them later in life when they learn that you actually have to get skills to make it here on Earth. They get angry when they see some one from another race doing well, and they get jealous, and feel that they have been left out, so then they turn their anger on Affirmative Action" or some other programs thinking that this is how the person of color got ahead. Pathetic.

No one likes this sort of topic, but from where I'm standing topics like this must always be discussed and challenged. If anyone dares to challenge it they are labeled a Liberal or a Left-wing fanatic, or they must be living on the West Coast. All diversions to keep people from taking the subject matter seriously. They want us all to go along with their mind-set, and when we don't they get angry and start the name calling anew. It's like dealing with children. I'm waiting for the clown who will finally get around and start calling me a race traitor for not going along with his rubbish. I guess a REAL White woman is supposed to go along with whatever a white man decrees without question. If you think I'm this sort of person I think you should wake up from your dream, and smell the fucking coffee of reality.

Hundreds of years people of color have been getting the short stick and only in the last 30 years are they able to start getting some skills and the moment that happens White males start whining like little bitches. It makes me sick to my stomach because their reactions and fear and laziness really show the true colors of our race and for that I am ashamed.

-River

---

They really need to man-up, talking about white male privilage makes some of these men defensive!!.I guess the truth is hard to take. The way some of these males are bitching in this thread I'd really love to see it if they had to compete on an even playing field with everyone else. Why do I get the feeling some of them would fall apart.

But you had better watch out River next thing you know they will be calling you a femm Nazi or a flaming liberal...actually coming from this camp I would take that as a compliment but thats me!!lol

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:
But you already have the biggest affirmative action ever, its called White male Privlege, you don't seem to want to admit that!! your whole life has been one big affirmative action program!! why do I detect hostilty..why is the truth so hard for you to own up to.

I think I must of hit a nerve!!

---

You’re flattering yourself. Some imaginary privilege isn’t the same thing as actual policy. It’s kind of like the “international Jew.” You’re created the “international white male” to justify some bigotry against white people. I don’t know about you, but I earned what I have in life. It wasn’t handed to me for the color of my skin.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
So you mean anything that a non white person accomplishes was handed to them? Are you saying that every degree, or every business a non white person gets or starts is not by their own efforts, but because it was handed too them? Thats rather illuminating information coming from you, and very interesting. That really tells me what you are. Thank you for that.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

Quote:

---

---

I don’t know about you, but I earned what I have in life. It wasn’t handed to me for the color of my skin.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Oh no, you've got it all wrong. It isn't a fudged-up justice system. It's one that responds to supply and demand, the perfect example of why the capitalist model is always better. It's a fine result of the US conservative motto "All the justice money can buy".

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Oh no, you've got it all wrong. It isn't a fudged-up justice system. It's one that responds to supply and demand, the perfect example of why the capitalist model is always better. It's a fine result of the US conservative motto "All the justice money can buy".

---

Ah but Paris is of the female persuasion, I've seen the proof. I thought that put her behind the eight ball much like yourself. Besides, what does this obvious travesty of justice have to do with white, male privilege?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
No need to get defensive and slip into name calling. That is what you said. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what that line of yours means. Anyone who is non white did not deserve what they have accomplished because whatever they accomplished was handed too them because of the color of their skin. You on the other hand earned what you have in life through hard work and no one handed you anything. Color of skin = Things being handed to them.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:
I'm sure your white male privilage helped you just as much as any affirmative action program helped some woman or some minority who needed it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:
I'm sure your white male privilage helped you just as much as any affirmative action program helped some woman or some minority who needed it.

---

Your right. By forcing me to work and pay for the same education handed to them by virtue of their race or gender

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
No need to get defensive and slip into name calling. That is what you said. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what that line of yours means. Anyone who is non white did not deserve what they have accomplished because whatever they accomplished was handed too them because of the color of their skin. You on the other hand earned what you have in life through hard work and no one handed you anything. Color of skin = Things being handed to them.

---

Diversity programs and affirmative action programs still exist and I’ve still not benefited from them.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
SO all people of color who have "made it" through school or hard work their opportunities were "handed too them" based on their color? You cannot honestly tell me for certain that you believe this? So anyone that is not White got a free ride? That's a pretty interesting way of seeing it.

---

Quote:

---

...most of those white males had plenty of things "handed" too them without them actually working hard for it. Too many white males I know got their positions not because they were particularly skilled, or even intelligent. They got their positions because they were white males.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
SO all people of color who have "made it" through school or hard work their opportunities were "handed too them" based on their color? You cannot honestly tell me for certain that you believe this? So anyone that is not White got a free ride? That's a pretty interesting way of seeing it.

---

I can't speak for all people of color. In my experiance a person with my academic and economic background who is also a minority would have warranted preferrential hiring, admissions, and financial aid. That aint fair. I made it and many of them didn't, not because I'm white but because I had to work my ass off. I suggest/speculate that the reason I had to work my ass off was because everything was not handed to me like I witnessed in so many of the minorities at my same or below my academic and economic level. The were not working their collective asses off so that, upon reaching the real world, they started with their prefferences, but could not compete against a highly motivated and productive me. I speculate that in this fashion Affirmative Action served the duel role of being both unjust to non-minorities and then failing in its principal mission.

In other words, I did more with less and still came out ahead.

Quote:

---

...most of those white males had plenty of things "handed" too them without them actually working hard for it. Too many white males I know got their positions not because they were particularly skilled, or even intelligent. They got their positions because they were white males.

---

I wonder if you are not mistaking economic privilage for some sort of racial distinction. Its an easy mistake to make because historically the economically powerful where also largely white males.

You may want to consider the perspective of a poor white son of a coal miner like myself to that of a rich son or daughter of a millionaire industrialist (race neutral). I think you'll find the issue is not race but economic. In that regard the system doubly fails me by making Affirmative Action available for minorities and Economic Privilage available for the rich.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
Oh nevermind.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
SO all people of color who have "made it" through school or hard work their opportunities were "handed too them" based on their color? You cannot honestly tell me for certain that you believe this? So anyone that is not White got a free ride? That's a pretty interesting way of seeing it.

---

I can't speak for all people of color. In my experiance a person with my academic and economic background who is also a minority would have warranted preferrential hiring, admissions, and financial aid. That aint fair. I made it and many of them didn't, not because I'm white but because I had to work my ass off. I suggest/speculate that the reason I had to work my ass off was because everything was not handed to me like I witnessed in so many of the minorities at my same or below my academic and economic level. The were not working their collective asses off so that, upon reaching the real world, they started with their prefferences, but could not compete against a highly motivated and productive me. I speculate that in this fashion Affirmative Action served the duel role of being both unjust to non-minorities and then failing in its principal mission.

In other words, I did more with less and still came out ahead.

Quote:

---

...most of those white males had plenty of things "handed" too them without them actually working hard for it. Too many white males I know got their positions not because they were particularly skilled, or even intelligent. They got their positions because they were white males.

---

I wonder if you are not mistaking economic privilage for some sort of racial distinction. Its an easy mistake to make because historically the economically powerful where also largely white males.

You may want to consider the perspective of a poor white son of a coal miner like myself to that of a rich son or daughter of a millionaire industrialist (race neutral). I think you'll find the issue is not race but economic. In that regard the system doubly fails me by making Affirmative Action available for minorities and Economic Privilage available for the rich.

H

---

Quote:

---

By River: Most of the time we are taken at our word. People assume that we [white people] are straight dealing, and hard working. People assume we are telling the truth. People assume that we didn't steal something. We are innocent until proven guilty, but any other race, especially the black race is guilty until proven innocent.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
I appreciate your perspective. Though I'm white and have had the benefit of white privilege I remember want ads that said HELP-WANTED FEMALE bookkeeper, HELP-WANTED MALE accountant. I remember being the only female standing 4 hours in line for apprenticeships for pipe-fitters and electricians (they wouldn't even hand me the application form once I got to the desk). And I was told that the university I went to didn't allow female med students because they didn't have facilities for women. And there is still a severe glass ceiling for non-white non-males in the highest ranks of business and government.

SOME things have improved, but as long as we have a society that limits opportunities privilege will exist.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

---

By River: Most of the time we are taken at our word. People assume that we [white people] are straight dealing, and hard working. People assume we are telling the truth. People assume that we didn't steal something. We are innocent until proven guilty, but any other race, especially the black race is guilty until proven innocent.

---

This comes, much more likely than because of race, because of the fact that before we let our suburbs fall to shit, people knew their neighbors and weren't afraid to leave their locks open on their doors. White people in white suburbs were able to trust each other because they had enough that they weren't hungry and they weren't stealing and killing each other. Typically, black neighborhoods were the exact opposite for the exact opposite reasons. Is that really so hard to understand? Fuck you and your "stereotype" shit I know you're gong to retort with because you know this is true. Black people are going to have to work to earn respect and eventually a day will come when they don't have to work harder than anyone else does. I, personally, don't see a problem with this and I don't know why you do. You can drink all you want now and theorize and philosophise over all of this shit and feel bad about yourself because your parents and your parent's parents and their parents worked their asses off to make life easy for you so you can piss it away, with all that alcahol you drink.

It's your stereotypical story of the overprivelaged self loathing asswipe.


And by the way, I don't trust anyone. I suspect that's because even though I'm white, my upbringing wash MUCH rougher than yours was. My parents even lied to me constantly because they hated each other and were too wrapped up in their own little sad and depressing lives... you remind me particularly of my mother and her self loathing, by the way. I don't care what color or sex or age you are, I don't trust you until you earn it. You are a fool if you trust anyone without them having earned that trust first, and even then, to trust anyone blindly is pure lunacy and you diserve to get burned. When you get burned enough, you'll learn. You're still young yet.

---

Quote:

---

...we've been telling everyone that they should take responsibility for their actions. We have yet to take our own advice and this bothers me.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Your messages are starting to get repetitive and annoying River. If you really want to read people's thoughts on this issue, feel free to peruse the archives where this has been hashed and rehashed many, many times.

Why do you hate your race so much? Why do you feel so guilty about everything?

Please. Get help for the drinking.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I apologize for the overall tone of my posts River. You showed a lot of class in your reply(s). Obviously, I have somewhat of an anger management type problem that is all the more evident when I can't tone down my posts during the time that it takes to write them (which rarely is short).

Though I stand by any of my views about the topic itself, it was unfair of me and without class to bring any personal jabs into my reply. I just get so infuriated by this general mindset that I'm starting to see all around me where even white people and males in general or feeling sorry for everything else that everybody else does and has done when, most likely, they have plenty of shit that they personally have done and need to make ammends for. I see no point in knocking a race or a sex as a whole, other than that somebody wants whites and males to feel bad about themselves and that's why the media in flooded with all the bad shit individuals of our particular demographic have done. You can't escape seeing it, unless you throw out all of your TVs and never read a paper again..

Collectively, we're all a bunch of assholes and if you're going to look at humanity or any section of humanity as a whole, the bad will outweigh the good and you're going to see them for just how bad you're looking for them to be, or for how much you're trying to hate them. It's individually where you can find good in people, regardless of any demographic differences, and it's individuality that matters. It's indivuality that matters when you choose the kind of people you surround yourself with, and it's individuality that matters when you choose your own constitution. What our some of our "forefathers" did in the past or what some asswipe CEO today does to ruin the lives of many just so he can support his excesses does not matter and should not make you feel guilty.

Don't feel guilty about being a white male. If you really feel bad, use some of that newfound wealth to make a difference. Don't disassociate yourself from "White" and "Male"... disassociate yourself from all of those evil bastards today, and all throughout history, that were capable of doing so many hateful and destructive thigs to their fellow man that you yourself would never be capable of. Help be part of the proof that the hatered and fear of whites and males today is unwarranted.

I admit that was far off base in my angered and unwarranted assement of your past, and perhaps I still am, but forgive me for thinking that maybe it's your newfound "wealth" and lack of "struggle" to survive anymore that you're feeling guilty for and you're mistaking it for a guilt about your color and your sex? Especially when you see what the Man (Who is generally white and male) is doing to everyone else in the world today. Just don't lose scope of the fact that we're all getting the shaft now, all across the demographic board. Everytime they print out new money and flood the market with it, it's as if they're splitting the stock and we're not getting the split. That just can't go on forever. Look at how much food and gas cost today compared to even 6 months ago. The real reason that they don't talk about is that there is an ever exponentially increasing stock of worthless greenbacks every year and nothing more in the reserves such as gold (OR OIL) to back it up. These prices ain't never going back down, because in the end we don't have anything as valuable to the Saudis as their oil is to us, unless of course you include our labor. (Wouldn't virtual slavery for oil one day be ironic?) It won't be but a few generations from now when we're all using one currency and they've united all of the nations under one rule, so that, as Mal would say, "everyone can be interfered with or ignored equally."

Maybe that will make people with your mindset happy, but I've read 1984 and I really don't want to take that ride myself.


By the way. Congrats on the abstenance from drinking. I have plenty of vices myself and I had no business going there like that.

Have a good one.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
#5. I do not have self-loathing. Though I am disappointed with certain things in my life, I do not loath myself, but also I wouldn't call myself a happy person either. I'm just here for the duration of this life.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

I was a wreck and my self destructive behaivor nearly killed me. My great hatred was for "them", the liberals.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
#5. I do not have self-loathing. Though I am disappointed with certain things in my life, I do not loath myself, but also I wouldn't call myself a happy person either. I'm just here for the duration of this life.

---

Your last line here sums up your real problem. You need some counseling. The drinking binge, lashing out at "them" the evil white males, now followed by this simple declaration of quiet desperation. Its all a sign of classic depression.

Therapy and perhaps some medication (although I am not a real fan of medication) would change your perspective.

Seems that you are somewhat self-loathing. It probably comes from your childhood. You likely blame your father for failing you, thus leading you to villainize white males. This has likely been accomponied by various "failed" relationships with other men, perhaps abusive, that serves to reinforce your opinion. At the same time you ultimately blame yourself, seeing the abuse by your father and mother and others as a failing in your own character (you think you do not deserve to be loved), this leads to self-destructive behaivor such as the binge drinking.

It does not have to be this way. I was where you are at one time. I was a wreck and my self destructive behaivor nearly killed me. My great hatred was for "them", the liberals. But I found it within myself to lift my eyes back to the horizon and start building the world I wanted with my own two hands.

There may be a grand conspiracy against you (there is with PirateNews), but I think you'll find that the master conspirator is really just you and once you've foiled your own plot, the world will open up for you.

I wish you well.

H

---