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The incident happened near Austin, Texas, as crowd of between 2,000-3,000 people gathered for the annual Juneteenth festival, which commemorates the freeing of American slaves.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Having said all that, I fail to see how this remotely compares to the Iranian 'official punishment' of stoning. A public stoning sanctioned by the Gov't far and away 'tops' a random, albiet brutal, act of mob mentality.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
It was supposed to allude to the barbarism of the acts, and how a nation that (rightfully) finds Iran's policies primitive is itself capable of producing headlines such as this.

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Originally posted by Khyron:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Having said all that, I fail to see how this remotely compares to the Iranian 'official punishment' of stoning. A public stoning sanctioned by the Gov't far and away 'tops' a random, albiet brutal, act of mob mentality.

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It was supposed to allude to the barbarism of the acts, and how a nation that (rightfully) finds Iran's policies primitive is itself capable of producing headlines such as this.

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In Milwaukee...
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Police Release More Detail About Juneteenth Violence
By Jon Byman

Milwaukee Police say a 33-year-old man has a broken tooth and cuts all over his face after a group of teenagers pulled him from his car and beat him following Milwaukee's Juneteenth celebration.

It happened after the festival ended in the 3000 block of north 1st Street which is a short distance from the actual festival. Police say hundreds of teenagers started kicking the man's car. Today's TMJ 4 video from the scene shows the teenagers damaging at least several cars.

The man who was pulled from his car was treated and released from a local hospital.

Meanwhile, a few blocks away a group of girls started fighting. When police went to break up the fight near 1st and Auer, the department says a 17-year-old girl started punching and kicking a 15-year veteran officer.

She hit him in his face shield, which shattered into his face. He needed three stitches and has scratches on his neck. That 17-year-old was arrested and police are recommending charges for battery to a police officer.

Police say there was also a fight earlier in the day in the 3000 block of north 1st Street. In that case, three women were fighting. Police say a 15-year-old boy tried to break up the fight when an 18-year-old man got involved in it.

According to police, the 18-year-old got angry, walked away and told the boy he was coming back with a gun. The 18-year-old did in fact return with a gun and fired five shots into a crowd where the boy was standing. The 15-year-old's 39-year-old uncle was hit in the shoulder. He was treated and released from a local hospital.

Some people think the violence takes away from the real meaning of Juneteenth.

"I think it should be continued," said Earnestine Rogers. "It shouldn't be stopped because of some youngsters."

It's the second year in a row that violence has broken out at the celebration.
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www.620wtmj.com/news/local/8092297.html

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Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
You think Americans will not find this act of barbarism primitive?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
One can find acts of crowd violence almost anywhere on the globe. Just look at the violence which erupts from soccer ( Futball ) matches around the world, for example. That can't be viewed entirely as any accurate reflection of a nation. On the one hand, we have state mandated acts of public execution, and on the other, we have spontaneous, illegal acts of violence. You're comparing apples and oranges.

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Seems to be a cultural thing, where the children of one group haven't been taught well enough to understand the point of the celebration. Hard to vilify an entire nation for that, I think.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
Are you being intentionally dense? Of course they will. I WAS TALKING ABOUT MAKING HEADLINES.

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Iran has recently reintroduced stoning as an official punishment, but I bet even they would be hard-pressed to top this (EDIT: in terms of making shocking headlines... as if that needed saying... which apparently it did...)

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Originally posted by Khyron:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6224538.stm

Iran has recently reintroduced stoning as an official punishment, but I bet even they would be hard-pressed to top this (EDIT: in terms of making shocking headlines... as if that needed saying... which apparently it did...).

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Originally posted by MAGhaffar:
While Iran may re-instate Stoning to death as an "official" punishment, there is no sanction or commandment for specifically stoning to death for any offense in the Holy Quran. The popular belief that Islam allows stoning to death for adultery is false. The punishment is 100 lashes, ch. Al-Nur -- but the offense must first be attested to by 4 eye-witnesses. The historical references of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) stoning adulterers to death stems from a case involving two Jews caught in adultery, who were asked whether they wanted to be judged by their book (the Torah) or the Islamic law. The Jews chose their Holy Book.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
Okay, it's the morning after and I can now see why people thought I was taking a big swipe at the US. Yes, what I wrote was obscure, and people were not being obtuse (sorry AURaptor and BDN), but late last night I was too tired and frustrated by Rue to see that. But here was my train of thought: In terms of a nation making a headline for a barbaric act, this was more shocking (to me, at least) than anything else I've heard of recently. Iran would have a tough time beating this one. I was NOT saying that this is indicative of America as a whole, but that American people are capable of barbaric acts that shock the world.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
Finn, I don't think one can attribute this to gang violence, at least not from the way the BBC article described it. It sounded like up to 20 or so onlookers decided to stomp on a passenger, which is different. But it'll be interesting to see how far people will go to excuse this. First, "it's just 'em crazy black folk and Mexicans", then "they were also in a gang". Most foreigners aren't privy to the inside information you guys apparently are, we just know what's on the BBC.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
Finn, there's a big difference between a gang and a crowd of onlookers. It's true, look it up.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
Ask anybody what a gang is, especially in an American context, and they'll think of the second definition (LA's gang problem is well-known worldwide). By calling this an act of "gang violence" you're deliberately trying to give the impression that an actual gang (the type that has matching tattoos, gold teeth and too much testosterone) was responsible for the violence, which would fall into the territory of "Oh okay, nothing unusual about that". Calling them a "mob" would be much more accurate, but counterproductive to your attempt at spin.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
I really don't think you have a reason to feel you're being victimised here, Finn. It's not just substituting one word for another, words have connotations and "gangs" and "mobs" aren't interchangeable, and "gang violence" in particular to most people can mean only one thing. It's not trivial or about me being pedantic, it's about you making this sound like something it's not (for all we know).

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Originally posted by Khyron:
The point is, for all we know these were normal, everyday people who spontaneously stomped a guy to death. There's nothing "same-ol', same-ol'" about that, unless America is far more violent than foreigners are aware of.

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Obviously, the definition from the dictionary supports my usage, and the denotation of word supercedes whatever connotation you want to apply.

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Either way, if you have such a problem with the word “gang” then substitute the word “mob.” It doesn’t change my point.

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Some information is starting to emerge: the event occurred at a Juneteenth festival in which there where as many as 3000 people gathered. The number of people involved in the act is between 2 to twenty black men, which means it might be just a couple of people not a MOB.

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Because it was a festival it is likely that alcohol may have been involved. A little girl was injured, which likely spurred emotions and accusations. A family member or members of the child was likely involved. This is sounding less and less unusual.

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And if we are going to start talking about someone distorting things, perhaps we should consider the possibility it is you or the BBC.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
Maybe a comparison with Iran would be appropriate after all.

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
And I’m sorry that I didn’t realize earlier that this was really all you looking for. Some pre-text to spout Imperialist American rhetoric.

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I don’t have time to respond to lunatic arguments and I’m tired of debating semantics.

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It occurs all the time in neighborhoods in the UK

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
No, I'm not surprised, hell, ain't even shocked.
Didn't the events at Abu Gharib show you what most americans are really like when the polite fictions are stripped away ?

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Don't the actions of our troops in Iraq, the way they just kill anyone they please ?

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Originally posted by Khyron:

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
And I’m sorry that I didn’t realize earlier that this was really all you looking for. Some pre-text to spout Imperialist American rhetoric.

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LMAO! Yeah, sure. That was it. That comment was in response to your argument. But go ahead, talk yourself into a corner and claim you're a victim of somebody's agenda.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
Okay, never heard of that so keep me posted (and I'm talking about situations similar to this one, i.e. where the people involved are "normal", that means football hooliganism or neo-Nazi activities don't count since the people involved are already commonly viewed as primitive, barbaric and ready to be institutionalised).

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
No, I'm not surprised, hell, ain't even shocked.

Didn't the events at Abu Gharib show you what most americans are really like when the polite fictions are stripped away ?

Don't the actions of our troops in Iraq, the way they just kill anyone they please ?

Americans are really good at seeing other people not in their little clique collectives as non-human, and politicians have been playing that card for many a year.

If anything surprises me, it's that this even made the news, given how many similar incidents all the time do not.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Didn't the events at Abu Gharib show you what most americans are really like when the polite fictions are stripped away ? Americans are really good at seeing other people not in their little clique collectives as non-human, and politicians have been playing that card for many a year.

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Originally posted by Kaneman:
What do you expect from a bunch of drunk black hommies drinking 40 oz beers....Oh, and we are all the same......4000 on 1, sounds about right...........

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
My guess is that this is exactly what you’re looking for. I don’t know why. But it explains the approach you’re taking in this thread.

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You have yet to explain to me who it is you’re addressing.

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Why you think that MOB violence is shocking given the circumstances.

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Why you feel intent on biasing the argument away from organized gangs, and instead insisting this violence is indicative of “normal” Americans.

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And most surprising of all, why you believe that the government of Iran instituting MOB violence as an official form of capital punishment is less shocking then violence that erupts from distress over an injured daughter.

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As I already said, I don’t know what you’re point is and you won’t tell me, instead you're quibbling over semantics, so I have to go by what you have told me.

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First of all, you don’t know that the people involved in this incident are “normal.” Remember, you were just throwing a fit because the connation of one of my words might have biased the character of these people. You’re imposing an assumption on this, and you’re not doing it because of the connotation of word. You’re intentionally excluding any group you don’t think is “normal.” Like a black-separatist group? An organized inner-city gang. A Nations of Islam group. The Black Panthers. Any of which might have played a part in this given the setting, as far as you know.

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In any event, it is entirely possible and I think likely that this was not an organized event.

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You think that fights between individuals or groups of "normal" people don’t break out in London? Or Belfast? Or Derry? I guarantee you that they do. Quite frankly it likely happens a lot. It doesn’t always end in death maybe, but then my guess is that the individuals involved in this incident weren’t trying to murder anyone they were reacting out of passion and/or alcohol.

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If the victim hadn’t have died, we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation.

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The whole event is entirely possible. You take a large enough group of “normal” people in one place, introduce (probable) alcohol, have the daughter of one member of that group mistakenly injured in a lifethreatening way and that’s a recipe for a brawl, no matter where you are. And if someone happens to die, now it’s MOB murder. No religious or political zealots, no militias with guns, no oppressive government stoking the flames of anti-Americanism to hide their tyranny. Just regular human distress, magnified many times by crowd confusion and drugs. It happens, everywhere.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
And as for the behavior of our troops there mister apologist, when I see one roach, I know damn well that there's not JUST one of em, and so do you.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I don't apologise for shit, wasn't MY decision to stick our nose into that business, and I have jack damn all to do with it, so why the hell should I feel personally responsible or bear any guilt ?

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
America, the america we've built in the last hundred years, is not a nice place, in fact it's downright dystopic, you think I carry a piece just for show ? I neither approve of nor participate in such behavior, but damned if imma blind myself to it in the name of patriotic loyalty, that's just asinine.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
I was referring to the Vertical Farming thread. Obviously.

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Originally posted by rue:
You replies to my rather innocuous posts were filled with personal insults from the very first.

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Originally posted by rue:
This despite the fact that ALL of my comments were specific, topical and neutral (with the exception of the one response to your snark).

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