Ron Paul is PirateNews's Father... by Hero

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Ron Paul is PirateNews's Father...

POSTED BY: HERO
UPDATED: Saturday, January 26, 2008 13:01
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Tuesday, January 8, 2008 9:26 AM

Apparently Ronnie's been ranting for decades using a discredited medium once know as the "newsletter". This format for political opinion involves the use of paper (a substance made from trees if your believe that sort of thing) and little or no electronic dissemination. Shocking to think that in this modern age relevant information would be contained in something so quaint as paper...but I urge the Ron Paulies to read this article:

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720-ac15-4532
a7da84ca

My favorite part is

Quote:

What they reveal are decades worth of obsession with conspiracies, sympathy for the right-wing militia movement, and deeply held bigotry against blacks, Jews, and gays. In short, they suggest that Ron Paul is not the plain-speaking antiwar activist his supporters believe they are backing--but rather a member in good standing of some of the oldest and ugliest traditions in American politics.

Kinda what I was saying all along. He's the crazy talker candidate.

H

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Tuesday, January 8, 2008 9:50 AM

ARCLIGHT

TNRs server is slammed.

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Tuesday, January 8, 2008 10:02 AM

CITIZEN

In a country that seems to pride itself on it's violently partisan politics, that a candidate could garner such bi-partisan support has struck me as a little, well 'fishy'.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, January 8, 2008 11:34 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

A candidate who garners support from militant racists, both black and white, is simply nature's way of saying " stay away " .

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, January 8, 2008 1:23 PM

HERO

Funny, the Ron Paulies are staying unusually quiet on this issue. Maybe they all slipped away to New Hampshire to waive signs or beat up some gays.

H

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Tuesday, January 8, 2008 3:42 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

This isn't new news, but there's no time like the present to rehash old news.

I learned about this newsletter stuff the first time I googled Ron Paul to find out who he is.

Ron Paul disavowed the racist cr*p, has been dismayed by the articles in question, and he has never said anything remotely racist.

All that's left is whether you believe him or not.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, January 8, 2008 4:41 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

This isn't new news, but there's no time like the present to rehash old news.

I learned about this newsletter stuff the first time I googled Ron Paul to find out who he is.

Ron Paul disavowed the racist cr*p, has been dismayed by the articles in question, and he has never said anything remotely racist.

All that's left is whether you believe him or not.

--Anthony

The curious point of all this isn't that it was a mere once or twice which such overt views were displayed, but many, many times. And while these remarks seemingly appear to be unassinged, they did appear in Dr. Paul's newsletter, which serves as a means of broadcasting his views. Signed by him or not.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, January 8, 2008 4:56 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

The reason I have accepted Ron Paul's statements on the matter is because I do not believe that someone who froths with such hate gleefully and gluttonously in a public forum would suddenly stop cold turkey one day and never do it again.

One would also expect people to pour forth and say, 'Yes, I heard him express that view at X event and Y event on A date and B date' and yet no one ever has.

It really does look to me like he got wise to what was being said in his name and stomped on it hard, while expressing revulsion over the words used on his behalf and apologizing for them.

If anything, I see it as a morality play about watching what you let people say in your name.

I understand that some people will never believe his version of events. I will understand equally well if you view him with suspicion and choose not to support him because of those newsletters.

I would say that you are being prudent and I am being optimistic. It just so happens I really do believe what the man is saying, both about his views and about those newsletters.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, January 8, 2008 5:02 PM

LEADB

Read one of the 'Ron Paul Reports'. Very gloomy read. Even if he didn't actually write it, unless the thing is completely faked, I don't see how he can just 'step away' from it.

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Tuesday, January 8, 2008 5:24 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I followed the trail. There were some linked pdfs which I looked at. If any of those select statements had been discretely tucked into more rational language it would still have given pause. But there was page after page - 8 pages in one pdf - of unbroken and utter racist crap. If he didn't write it, it was published under his name. And they aren't isolated - it's something that went on through many, many years. And it wasn't due to his publishing organization either b/c it went through one to another. This isn't something you can back away from.

It's an extensive history of racism, sexism and hate going back at least 15 years printed under his name and with his knowledge and consent. At least now we know.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, January 8, 2008 5:53 PM

FREMDFIRMA

So, it boils down to who are we to believe.

The words of a man who has put his money where his mouth is for decades, stood to his principles even when he stood utterly alone, returns much of his congressional budget every year, who has a reputation for honesty and integrity even in one of the most corrupt political systems since the roman empire and who holds to his principles even when they conflict with his own deeply held beliefs...

Or the same media who gave us Remember the Maine, The gulf of tonkin, mushroom clouds, flower throwing iraqis, WMDs, Ahmed Chalabi, swiftboating, the outing of plame, jeff gannon, bribed editorialists, fake "news" shill bits, cointelpro,mockingbird, coverups and omissions, a seemingly endless stream of even the most blatant distortions and lies, as often as not with a retraction or correction buried in the fine print on page 9 three weeks later, to catapult the propaganda, as the man says ?

Golly gee, that's really such a hard choice to make, innit ?
*SNARK*

There's also the fact that while not fond of racists, outright nutters and religious wackos, unlike most I can acknowledge the fact that regardless, such people are, as a general rule, human and don't care for taxes and having their freedoms stomped on any more than the most rational moderate... seriously, dislike em or not, why wouldn't say... white supremecists, for example, hate being taxed to pay for shit they don't believe in, just the same as pacifists hate being taxed to buy war toys ?

"Look, you can't take away peoples right to be assholes!"- Simon Phoenix.
Demolition Man

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, January 8, 2008 6:08 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Yes, it does smack of politics. And if it were a recent, small, isolated incident, limited to one publisher, and made without the knowledge of Paul you might write it off as something concocted just for the occasion. But what are we to make of long tirades made through different publishers over an extended period of time with Paul's knowledge ? And more importantly, without any effort on his part to stop it ? He was aware of it, it was being published under his name, and he made no effort to clean it off of him at any point - until now when he offered some lame excuse that it was all the publishers fault.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, January 8, 2008 6:58 PM

SERGEANTX

I replied to Citizen with the following on the Serenity board. Since it's on exactly the same topic, I thought I'd copy it here.

Those newsletters have been a cause for concern for me since the beginning of the campaign. The thing that does mitigate it somewhat (but only somewhat), is the context. Ron Paul, and all libertarians, are against racially motivated government policies of all sorts. I think I've read enough of Ron Paul's writings to say pretty confidently he's not a racist, but he is against much anti-racist legislation. And being against anti-racist laws will get you support from racists, whether they get the principles involved or not.

Ron Paul's fault in the matter, in my opinion, was in accepting the support of those who weren't actually on board because of the principle. They just wanted to continue being bigots. Being a bigot is a right we all have, I suppose, but they're not folks you want as 'friends', certainly not of you aspire to a career in politics. I think that RP, as a perpetual 'long-shot' candidate, got used to accepting support from anywhere he could get it. And he was willing to play to their concerns with these newsletters. I really can't buy the excuse that he didn't know what was in these newsletters, whether he wrote them or not.

Anyway, that gets me down on him some, but when I look at the other candidates, and the pandering, deceit and outright corruption that permeates their political "success", it's an issue that quickly falls into the background. I'm not suggesting we forget it. And it's something that I think the press should be legitimately holding his feet to the fire on. As long as they pursue the other candidates duplicity with equal fervor.

Besides, the most important thing is that Hillary cried.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, January 9, 2008 4:42 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
The reason I have accepted Ron Paul's statements on the matter is because I do not believe that someone who froths with such hate gleefully and gluttonously in a public forum would suddenly stop cold turkey one day and never do it again.

Neither do I. Said person would only have to stop for the year or so he's running for election. Tens of millions of dollars in donations and the chance to establish credibility before returning to one's racist roots, is a strong incentive.

H

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Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:10 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
The reason I have accepted Ron Paul's statements on the matter is because I do not believe that someone who froths with such hate gleefully and gluttonously in a public forum would suddenly stop cold turkey one day and never do it again.

Neither do I. Said person would only have to stop for the year or so he's running for election. Tens of millions of dollars in donations and the chance to establish credibility before returning to one's racist roots, is a strong incentive.

H

Prove it.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, January 11, 2008 7:13 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Prove it.

Ok. Well exhibit 1 would be the Ron Paul newsletters going back 25 years or so. I'm not talking about one letter 25 years old but the entire series.

Exhibit 2 would be Mr. Paul's current expressed opinion which is entirely inconsistant with his the record established in the prior exhibit.

Next I would point to the millions of dollars he's raised.

Then I would cite his refusal to disavow his prior record which would tend to indicate he still holds those opinions.

The conclusion, ladies and gentlemen, while not beyond a reasonable doubt but certainly based upon the preponderance of the evidence is that Mr. Paul is hiding the true extent of his views because they would have the effect of reducing an already marginal candidacy to virtual non-existence (essentially taking away his fifth place status in favor of competing with the likes of the Feminists, Socialist Workers, and White Supremists).

H

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Friday, January 11, 2008 7:36 AM

SERGEANTX

Hero, you're dead wrong on saying that Paul hasn't disavowed them. I'm not pleased that the newsletters were published in the first place. I'm not pleased at the possibility that he wrote some of them. But he has disavowed them, vehemently, every time they dig this up (since the late nineties). And his voting record and writings as a congressman reflect exactly none of the racist tone of the newsletters.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, January 11, 2008 8:59 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Hero, you're dead wrong on saying that Paul hasn't disavowed them. I'm not pleased that the newsletters were published in the first place. I'm not pleased at the possibility that he wrote some of them. But he has disavowed them, vehemently, every time they dig this up (since the late nineties). And his voting record and writings as a congressman reflect exactly none of the racist tone of the newsletters.

All he's done is deny writing them. He's never condemned the opinions themselves.

I note for the record that his policy to let Isreal stand alone is shameful at best. "Good luck, your on your own" is no way to treat long time allies who are surrounded by folks intent, not just to make war but total anniliation.

H

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Friday, January 11, 2008 9:15 AM

SERGEANTX

You're lying. He's done it repeatedly. Most recently here:

and here:

and in writing as you mentioned.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Saturday, January 26, 2008 1:01 PM

ANTIMASON

i havent been around here in a while, but i had to comment on some of this vitriol towards Ron Paul, specifically regarding the hit piece

Quote:
"What they reveal are decades worth of obsession with conspiracies,"

take this for example: the move towards a NAU is real, but its a conspiracy so far as that its being done without the consent of the American public. by definition a conspiracy is two or more people conspiring to achieve an action/agenda that is unlawful or becomes unlawful due to its means. our constitution, and the republican party at least, want the law enforced and our borders secured. so what does it say that our borders arent enforced? well when they build a highway like SPP NAFTA intends, its obvious whats going on here; the goal is to undermine our sovereignty. but its not something were being told by the corporate media, so in this case anything other then the truth is a conspiracy.

this is why people on the extremes appreciate Ron Paul, as he said himself in one of the debates that 'this is a conspiracy of ideas', between communism and socialism and capitalism, and many times interests from within are working against our own well being.. we should only read between the lines ones in awhile

Quote:
...sympathy for the right-wing militia movement,

why do we have a second amendment? if communists took over the white house, youd be glad that we empowered such groups

Quote:
"and deeply held bigotry against blacks, Jews, and gays.

real quickly, because its such nonsense:

anti-Jew? no, maybe an anti-Israeli lobbyist. if you read his writings or listen to his debates, we should not be aiding anyone; right now we aid Israels enemies 3 times more, so why not cut it all out?

have you ever said something considered racially insensitive? does that make you a racist? well depending on your behaviour it does, but given that Ron Paul, as a Libertarian, is inclined to see all as individuals rather then collective groups(like a progressive socialist), he cannot be racist and ideologically consistent at the same time. and his voting record happens to be more consistent then any of the others, so how else should i gauge whether he is trustworthy?

Quote:
In short, they suggest that Ron Paul is not the plain-speaking antiwar activist his supporters believe they are backing--but rather a member in good standing of some of the oldest and ugliest traditions in American politics."

you mean the constitution, the bible.. things like that? maybe we should go down the list of other candidates, and you can proclaim to me how clean THEIR sheets are. this is a joke.. Ron Paul is a threat because he challenges everything psuedo conservatives and neo-socialist progressives have done for the last 100 years, and the media and republican party have to tear him down before he exposes the men behind the curtain. and he is the only one that talks about the Fed, and our dollar, and the drain that this war is on our finances, and the burden of socialist wellfarism condoned by todays psuedo-cons, and the loss of sovereignty and personal liberty.

the bible says that Satan is the father of lies, and the prince of this world, of this age. so naturally the truth would be despised, and what is true and pure and noble would come under attack. how ironic that the conservative party has a relative prophet in their midst, and yet they are so far astray and apostacized that they cannot grasp his message, as far as to turn on him. sounds very subtly like another story ive read... coincidentally, it ended in destruction

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