Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Fletch, sorry to hear about the oppression of your people by the Romans. Have you ever considered seeking reparations.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:
I'm an American and we are talking about America not Rome, your whole post was completely assine. I should have known from that post that your not american know very little about our history...it was pretty obvious from your post that your clueless.

---

Quote:

---

The point of history is to learn from it, not to use it to excuse behavior and not to guilt trip people who have no responsibility for what their ancestors may, or may not do.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Aside from that, I'd like to point out that today, STILL, doors open automatically for people with white skin and xy chromosomes that don't automatically open for others. Any efforts to address that aren't necessarily out of some effort to redeem the past, but to change the present.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
If anyone wants to meet the real real Rev. Wright, I found this, the most concise excerpt from his "God Damn America" sermon that gives the full context for his inflammatory words.

However, if y'all want to let Hannity and Colmes define reality for you, carry on, nothing to see here.

HKCavalier

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Well then, AURaptor,

We disagree. Thanks for taking the time to listen to the video.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

---

Quote:

---

HK-

Hey antimason,

I was not suggesting that you shoulda read his book (topped the NY Times Best Sellers List, so a bunch of people have read it, btw). I mentioned the book to say, "The guy has even written a book about his beliefs." His beliefs are not hidden. If you cared enough to do 5 minutes of research, you could know all of his beliefs before you make comments that only express your own ignorance of the man.

---

Quote:

---

And by research, I simply mean googling some speeches or visiting YouTube for his many public statements about his beliefs. Why do you insist that his beliefs are somehow obscure?

---

Quote:

---

I don't think it's reasonable for you to claim that the man needs to state his beliefs up front when you haven't even been paying attention.

---

Quote:

---

It's not just you, of course. There's this bizarre meme running around the interenet and the mainstream media that Obama is some kind of "man without a past," a "mystery man" which fits snuggly into folks conspiracy theories about him being a "muslim sleeper-cell" or some such utter horseshit.

---

Quote:

---

anti- actually, his race is only an issue to the democrats, since they nominated the guy!

Quote:

---

More "???" from me on this one. I can't make out what you're trying to say.

---

i noticed people playing the race card.. i was making a quick observation: Obamas race is only an issue to collectivists, people who see others as belonging to a group(minority, gay etc). those are subjects exclusive to the democrat party, its their niche, they cater to and elicit discrimination and racism in-inadvertently. im not voting democrat, so these arent relevant issues to me(as a conservative, but especially as an individual)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Problem is, the FULL CONTEXT only reinforces the origial description of J. Wright. It makes him less, not more, of a sypathetic figure.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by antimason:
i didnt make this a story, the media did, so dont call me ignorant simply for reacting to it.

---

Quote:

---

my comment was regarding whether Obama would consider himself a 'black liberation'ist, or not; that is the controversy right? i have not heard him explicity address that, if he did show me

---

Quote:

---

i was making a quick observation: Obamas race is only an issue to collectivists, people who see others as belonging to a group(minority, gay etc). those are subjects exclusive to the democrat party, its their niche, they cater to and elicit discrimination and racism in-inadvertently. im not voting democrat, so these arent relevant issues to me(as a conservative, but especially as an individual)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
So let me ask you - did you ever have your application refused because of your race or sex ? I have, on more than one occasion.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Were you ever told that you had to be better than everyone to even consider applying ? I have, on more than one occasion.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
I'm not talking about getting things handed to you, no work required, just because of your color or sex. I'm talking about not even being let into the competition because of them.

And since you think that never happens, you've obviously never had it happen to you. Which kinda' proves my point.

---

Quote:

---

The point you ignore is that everybody has been "oppressed" by somebody at some point, all you have to do is go back far enough. There are places in eastern Europe where there are still grudges about wars that were fought 500 years ago, Bin Laden is hung up on a Caliphate that ceased to exist 400 years ago.

The moral is clear -- you don't dwell on the past, if you do you make yourself a victim of it. No living American benefited from the effects of slavery, no living American suffers from the effects of slavery. There are a lot of African Americans suffering from things that happen right now, like petty racism and lack of educational opportunity. Those are the things we can fix, so let's not dwell on the past. The point of history is to learn from it, not to use it to excuse behavior and not to guilt trip people who have no responsibility for what their ancestors may, or may not do.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Aside from that, I'd like to point out that today, STILL, doors open automatically for people with white skin and xy chromosomes that don't automatically open for others. Any efforts to address that aren't necessarily out of some effort to redeem the past, but to change the present.

---

This is nonsense. No doors have ever opened automatically for me, that didn’t open automatically for anyone who stepped in front of them.

---

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Centuries ago ? Imaginary ? Yeah. Right.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Oh, and I'm not 'punishing' or blaming you personally, or even white males in general. But when you say such things never happen you really display an enormous ignorance.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:

instead of coming up with these ridiculous, assine, ignorant arguments that are based in your own bias fantasy, why don't you just admit the truth!! your scared, to live in fear is degrading, but you are, your scared of Obama and what he represents. Even though this thread is about Rev Wright any little excuse even one that is blantly and historically wrong you love it, but really its about your own fears.

and I'm calling you on it!!

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Well, we appear to have two different views of the past, each expressed by some people at different times, perhaps as a matter of convenience of argument.

One is this - you have to learn from the past or you may end up repeating it, like a grade in school.

The other is this - forget the past ! It's over !

Anyone care to resolve this apparent contradiction ?
"

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Seriously, why on earth did you post this ? Is it supposed to be funny ? Did you want to demonstrate how ignorant and crude you are ? Were you trying to show off how many names of black people and extremeists you could post ? Please explain the contribution your post made to us all. Thank you.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not a fact, it's a scam "

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
What you are saying here is it's the other generations that discriminate, not yours. Clearly you are saying it's in the past. Now maybe you mistated your ideas, so perhaps you can tell us all up front whether you believe discrimination, by name, still exists, or did every vestige die when your generation was born ? (An impposibility as your father's generation - still being alive - would carry it forward in their own lives. But for the sake of argument let's go along with the notion.)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Really ? Not even in the military which has policies and practices of discrimination, sometimes even severe ones ? BTW that's the problem of not being discrimianted against. You don't have the wit to see what doesn't impact you personally. So in your mind, it's not there.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Righteous9:

Because, if we are going to contend, as I do, that people are people, then we have to accept that blacks have had a vastly different experience than we have in this nation, up and to this day, and that it is that vastly diffferent experience that has yielded such staggeringly different results.

---